[NewMusic] Immolation

[Matthew Goodheart]

> That's the first time that I've heard of a suicidal act being 
> something "spiritual".

Really? Suicide being a  "spiritual" act has a pretty long tradition. 
How about Masada? There were the Buddhist monks who immolated 
themselves during the Vietnam war. Most suicide bombers seem to 
consider it a spiritual act, and I think so did the guys who plowed 
those planes into the WTC, etc. Also the cool-aid folks, or the purple 
sneaker types.  Or read just about anything by Yukio Mishima.

Seems there's pretty hard evidence some that many who commit suicidal 
(and murderous) are NOT afflicted with clinical depression.

Whether one agrees that it is spiritual, noble, or not. . . well that's 
different.

On Nov 8, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Chris Broderick wrote:

> Regardless of agreeing with his sentiments, I couldn't agree less with 
> his actions.  Assumedly he's left some loved one behind after this 
> act, and if not, then that is likely the larger reason behind his act 
> than any political protest.  But If he has, then ask that person 
> whether his behavior is "spiritual", or "admirable", or for that 
> matter, worthwhile.
>
> Suffering is indeed a part of life, and suicide is often an attempt to 
> short circuit that suffering.  The statement that this person made 
> above all is this: I can't take it anymore.  Any political statements 
> are secondary, to say the least.  I'm sorry if I can't lionize 
> self-immolation, but having been through chronic depression myself, 
> and having lost a couple of friends to suicide, I have a hard time 
> finding anything noble about it.
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 3:44:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Immolation
>
>
> Sarah,
>
> OK, perhaps admire isn't the right word - mostly because the act can be
> viewed as one of a spiritual nature. It's an act of disintegration - an
> act that will not allow the subject to remain indifferent to 
> atrocities.
> It's an extreme version of the opposite of "indifferent", I agree - and
> that is what is so astonishing about it.
>
> On the other hand, the sage knows that suffering is part of life and
> realizes to wish it otherwise is foolish - the act of wishing something
> is different than it is - is what an enlightened being resists - or
> refuses to consider.
>
> It is also possible to think of this individual as someone that felt he
> needed to embrace the suffering and annihilation that is rampant in 
> Iraq
> by exterminating himself.
>
> So perhaps astonished (how could it be otherwise?) is really the right
> word. But still, after all is said and done - when is the last time
> anyone astonished you with their spirituality? - (if I am perceiving 
> the
> act correctly - it's "correct" for me anyway) - you kind of have to
> admire the guy...
>
> PG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Phillip Greenlief
> c/o Evander Music
> PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
> 94623-9991
> www.evandermusic.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
> [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:26 PM
> To: Banewmus List
> Subject: [NewMusic] Immolation
>
> Phillip wrote:
> Sad news, and yet I can't help but admire a guy who would go so far to
> make a statement about the insanity of our involvement in Iraq.
>
> - Well, admire isn't the word I would use - I think as a political act
> it
> was a bit useless - though Rumsfeld did step down today, but I don't
> think
> it was because dude set himself on fire.
>
> - Certainly it is impressive as an act of "performance art" - tops 
> Chris
> Burden getting shot in the arm or nailed to the Volkswagon. Darren and 
> I
> spent a bit of time at dinner last night discussing the ethics and
> responsibility of his action.
>
> sl
>
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