[NewMusic] Immolation

[Chris Broderick]

OK, OK, I misspoke.  Suicide has been a part of many
spiritual traditions, I am aware of that.  But so has
mutilation, murder, genocide, bombing abortion
clinics, etc.  What I should have said is that I am
shocked that someone on this list would consider
suicide to be a spiritual act.  Or for that matter, a
work of "performance art".  I only wonder if any would
agree with such sentiments if they had witnessed this
self-immolation first hand.

-Chris

--- Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
wrote:

> > That's the first time that I've heard of a
> suicidal act being 
> > something "spiritual".
> 
> Really? Suicide being a  "spiritual" act has a
> pretty long tradition. 
> How about Masada? There were the Buddhist monks who
> immolated 
> themselves during the Vietnam war. Most suicide
> bombers seem to 
> consider it a spiritual act, and I think so did the
> guys who plowed 
> those planes into the WTC, etc. Also the cool-aid
> folks, or the purple 
> sneaker types.  Or read just about anything by Yukio
> Mishima.
> 
> Seems there's pretty hard evidence some that many
> who commit suicidal 
> (and murderous) are NOT afflicted with clinical
> depression.
> 
> Whether one agrees that it is spiritual, noble, or
> not. . . well that's 
> different.
> 
> On Nov 8, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Chris Broderick wrote:
> 
> > Regardless of agreeing with his sentiments, I
> couldn't agree less with 
> > his actions.  Assumedly he's left some loved one
> behind after this 
> > act, and if not, then that is likely the larger
> reason behind his act 
> > than any political protest.  But If he has, then
> ask that person 
> > whether his behavior is "spiritual", or
> "admirable", or for that 
> > matter, worthwhile.
> >
> > Suffering is indeed a part of life, and suicide is
> often an attempt to 
> > short circuit that suffering.  The statement that
> this person made 
> > above all is this: I can't take it anymore.  Any
> political statements 
> > are secondary, to say the least.  I'm sorry if I
> can't lionize 
> > self-immolation, but having been through chronic
> depression myself, 
> > and having lost a couple of friends to suicide, I
> have a hard time 
> > finding anything noble about it.
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
> > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 3:44:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Immolation
> >
> >
> > Sarah,
> >
> > OK, perhaps admire isn't the right word - mostly
> because the act can be
> > viewed as one of a spiritual nature. It's an act
> of disintegration - an
> > act that will not allow the subject to remain
> indifferent to 
> > atrocities.
> > It's an extreme version of the opposite of
> "indifferent", I agree - and
> > that is what is so astonishing about it.
> >
> > On the other hand, the sage knows that suffering
> is part of life and
> > realizes to wish it otherwise is foolish - the act
> of wishing something
> > is different than it is - is what an enlightened
> being resists - or
> > refuses to consider.
> >
> > It is also possible to think of this individual as
> someone that felt he
> > needed to embrace the suffering and annihilation
> that is rampant in 
> > Iraq
> > by exterminating himself.
> >
> > So perhaps astonished (how could it be otherwise?)
> is really the right
> > word. But still, after all is said and done - when
> is the last time
> > anyone astonished you with their spirituality? -
> (if I am perceiving 
> > the
> > act correctly - it's "correct" for me anyway) -
> you kind of have to
> > admire the guy...
> >
> > PG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Phillip Greenlief
> > c/o Evander Music
> > PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
> > 94623-9991
> > www.evandermusic.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
> > [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On
> Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:26 PM
> > To: Banewmus List
> > Subject: [NewMusic] Immolation
> >
> > Phillip wrote:
> > Sad news, and yet I can't help but admire a guy
> who would go so far to
> > make a statement about the insanity of our
> involvement in Iraq.
> >
> > - Well, admire isn't the word I would use - I
> think as a political act
> > it
> > was a bit useless - though Rumsfeld did step down
> today, but I don't
> > think
> > it was because dude set himself on fire.
> >
> > - Certainly it is impressive as an act of
> "performance art" - tops 
> > Chris
> > Burden getting shot in the arm or nailed to the
> Volkswagon. Darren and 
> > I
> > spent a bit of time at dinner last night
> discussing the ethics and
> > responsibility of his action.
> >
> > sl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 





 
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