[NewMusic] Immolation

Wed Nov 8 18:58:25 PST 2006

Dear bListers,

OK, I've read his "Statement" and heard the comments on many from the
list.

My opinion still stands.
I guess I am not as "attached" to this planet as others. The world is
grossly over-populated. I'm not saying that justifies suicide, or murder
for that matter, but it's one less human being on a planet over-run with
human beings. 

If you believe that live (the soul, the spirit, whatever) ends
completely in death, then cool - that's your belief and I can see
staying attached to staying alive. I don't happen to hold that same
value assessment. Of course I would be sad if anyone on the scene
committed this act, but I would still hold the same admiration for their
"commitment" - I can't judge others actions as "wrong" in this case.
It's up to the individual to decide their path and how to realize their
existential needs and goals. This is how this guy chose to realize a
solution for his existential problems. I can't get too much more
emotional about it. It's not my life. It's not even a friend's life.
It's some guy - easy to abstract with strangers, sure - who wanted to do
this thing and truly believed that his actions were justified.

While I would have much rather seen the guy slash Rumsfeld's throat (he
mentioned the fantasy, otherwise I would have neglected to mention it).
And, as Damon says, "one less "enlightened" brother on the planet. But
does anyone on this list send out obituaries when some young brother
gets killed in West Oakland over a drive-by? No. So what's the big deal
here? Is it easier to identify with his middle-class background? Is it
easier to put yourself in his shoes than the kid on West Street dodging
bullets? It's just that people want to wax philosophical about an act
like this while remaining cool calm and collected while my neighbors get
shot by the police, or while over 50,000 innocent civilians in Iraq have
been killed (my estimate given various info from death tolls). 

There really isn't an answer or a right perspective here - I'm just
tossing mine out - seems like a good day to think about this stuff - as
my warrior ancestors said, "it's a good day to die" - and it always
is...

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Praemedia
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 3:52 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Immolation

I cannot really get too far into the discussion on
this issue for many reasons (partof them is that I'm
at work at the moment), but in considering his
actions, you may want to also consider his "mission
statement" (which others may, and correctly,
characterize as his suicide note):

http://www.savagesound.com/gallery99.htm

--- Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:

> Sarah,
> 
> OK, perhaps admire isn't the right word - mostly
> because the act can be
> viewed as one of a spiritual nature. It's an act of
> disintegration - an
> act that will not allow the subject to remain
> indifferent to atrocities.
> It's an extreme version of the opposite of
> "indifferent", I agree - and
> that is what is so astonishing about it.
> 
> On the other hand, the sage knows that suffering is
> part of life and
> realizes to wish it otherwise is foolish - the act
> of wishing something
> is different than it is - is what an enlightened
> being resists - or
> refuses to consider.
> 
> It is also possible to think of this individual as
> someone that felt he
> needed to embrace the suffering and annihilation
> that is rampant in Iraq
> by exterminating himself.
> 
> So perhaps astonished (how could it be otherwise?)
> is really the right
> word. But still, after all is said and done - when
> is the last time
> anyone astonished you with their spirituality? - (if
> I am perceiving the
> act correctly - it's "correct" for me anyway) - you
> kind of have to
> admire the guy...
> 
> PG
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Phillip Greenlief
> c/o Evander Music
> PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
> 94623-9991
> www.evandermusic.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
> [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf
> Of Sarah - 21 Grand
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:26 PM
> To: Banewmus List
> Subject: [NewMusic] Immolation
> 
> Phillip wrote:
> Sad news, and yet I can't help but admire a guy who
> would go so far to
> make a statement about the insanity of our
> involvement in Iraq.
> 
> - Well, admire isn't the word I would use - I think
> as a political act
> it
> was a bit useless - though Rumsfeld did step down
> today, but I don't
> think
> it was because dude set himself on fire.
> 
> - Certainly it is impressive as an act of
> "performance art" - tops Chris
> Burden getting shot in the arm or nailed to the
> Volkswagon. Darren and I
> spent a bit of time at dinner last night discussing
> the ethics and
> responsibility of his action.
> 
> sl
> 
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> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
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