[NewMusic] the re-materialization of the conceptual art argument between me & Barry

[Barry Threw]

Points taken.

  It's hard to create any kind of dialog about such a diverse body of 
work.  One thing I will add is that I was commenting specifically on the 
works that were discussed last night, those being fresh in my mind, 
which all were pretty extreme examples.  Any other comments I have 
would, I think, have to be directed toward a specific piece...I'm sure 
you have a greater depth of knowledge in that regard that I do.  These 
specific examples were picked to make a point during the original 
lecture of course.

I'm sure that some of the things you mention below, once I look into 
them more, I will be really into.  Some I won't.  But this is a greater 
set than the types of work I had issue with at the beginning; which as 
you said seem to be "one liners".

My main point, I suppose, is that I don't believe that the deliverable, 
or the experience with audience (depending upon the nature of the work) 
can be overlooked as non-essential.

Thanks for the insight.

b


Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:
> Barry writes:
> Why is the typewriter example a more valid statement?
> 
> - I'm not claiming that any of your "theoretical" conceptual art projects
> aren't valid. Validity isn't the question in my mind - it's whether or not
> it's any good. Ed Ruscha's typewriter piece made for some nice photos and
> others appreciate the poetic gesture of it.
> 
> leading us to:
> I guess my real question is: What are the aesthetic criteria by which we can
> judge ideas?
> 
> - What are the aesthetic criteria by which one judges other art?
> 
> You said in an earlier post that you aspire to make music that is beautiful.
> There are artists working in a conceptual vein that aim to do the same
> thing, kinda in that "practice random acts of kindness" mode - a negative
> stereotype of this is something like the guy in "American Beauty" captivated
> by the plastic bag sweeping along the street. The web-based "learning to
> love you more" project of Harrell Fletcher and Miranda July is in this vein.
> Some work results in documentation or process-based objects that are
> beautiful, or attempt to be.
> 
> To a certain extent conceptual work sets its own terms and one judges it
> based on whether it did what it claimed to do. In some ways it's a
> philosophical beauty or the beauty of a good argument.
> 
> Other aesthetic criteria for conceptual art/ideas:
> - is it interesting? Does it make you think about something in a new way?
> 
> - is it impressive in terms of the execution - almost everything you've
> brought up in this debate has been the equivalent of one-liners, but there
> are plenty of examples of conceptual art that are process-driven that
> require a lot of work or work that one views as difficult - Chris Burden
> getting shot in the arm, nailed to a Volkswagen, the New York artist from
> the late 70s/early 80s that punched a time clock every day.
> 
> - is it funny/clever? For everyone who hasn't heard of it or heard the thing
> itself, there's America's Most Unwanted Song conceived by conceptual artists
> Komar and Malamid featuring the operatic rapping of our own Dina Emerson.
> Personally I can't understand why so many people would not want to hear the
> children singing "Ramadan Ramadan Lots of praying and no breakfast ... Do
> all your shopping at Wal-Mart" plus bagpipes, tubas ... awesome.
>> http://mulatta.org/mp3s/The%20Most%20Unwanted%20Song.mp3
> 
> - is it well-crafted? I think it's a misnomer that conceptual art is
> object-free. As I said before, it's more common than not for there to be
> some object referent to the work, even if solely in terms of documentation.
> Is the idea presented well?
> 
> The cover story in the East Bay Express a couple weeks ago was about a
> conceptual art project
> http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-01-31/news/artists-inc/
> 
> sl
> 
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> 

-- 
barry threw
composition : sound : programming
http://www.barrythrew.com
bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com
857-544-3967

Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the sensibility of men.
- Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises