[NewMusic] raphe malik 'sexist' CD

[Phillip Greenlief]

Dear bListers,

I (sort of) apologize for the last post - I tried to send it a few days
ago (in the midst of the discussion, such as it was), and then my server
went down and when I got it hooked up again tonight the email
automatically pushed through (it had been in the queue - ready to go).
Sorry for posting after the cease fire...

I had a few thoughts come up yesterday that I wish I had included...more
serious thoughts about this than the jovial ones I posted before. 

For a long time I have thought about the differences I perceive that
exist between men and women. I have tried to think about how those
things affect musicians, or how they affect music. I have tried to think
about how that plays out in terms of some of the things we talk about
from time to time - like "why aren't there more women out there playing
this music?"

There are a lot of women playing other kinds of music -
singer-songwriters, rockers, punks, variations on "classical" music,
country western artists, bluegrass, folk, etc. But there seems to be
fewer women involved in improvised music. I am just wondering out loud
here why that may be...bear with me, join the discussion, or deliver my
walking papers...

Women make up at least half, if not more than half of the total
population. It's always puzzled me then why half of the musicians out
there aren't women. For whatever reasons (I don't believe it's because
of an overly surly or macho attitude on the scene here in the bay area -
that aspect of the scene seems as healthy in that regard as any scene
I'm aware of - and yes, I know it could be BETTER). There is a college
in the area whose mission it is to serve women - Mills College - a great
facility and a great place to get exposed to this music. That
institution has probably granted the scene with more women who improvise
than in many other areas - and yet...no, there aren't that many women
coming out of Mills that stay on the scene for extended lengths of time
- so far - it could easily change over time. Even with the crew of great
women musicians that come from Mills the scene is still tipped in favor
(as far as numbers go) towards men. I find that curious. I am not
drawing conclusions yet, just trying to make some observations.

We have to admit that there are some differences between men and women -
obviously I'm not talking about concrete physiological differences. Like
many of you, I believe we all have "male" and "female" traits. Most of
us have seen beyond the old constructs of "men don't cry", etc. and no
longer hold those old fashioned opinions on gender traits that come from
more traditional cultural perspectives. 

Many have said that women are more intuitive - I'm not sure I buy that -
but if they are, then it seems to me that a more finely-tuned intuition
would be valuable as an improviser. I think that because women have the
potential to give birth, and that they are linked to a monthly cycle
that is the foundation for reproduction, it has always seemed to me that
women develop emotional maturity more quickly (or perhaps overall) than
men. That "stuff" also seems like the right ingredients for improvising.
In contrast, I could make some statements about men (through the same
perspective). If we think about men's reproductive systems, we plant
seeds; we do not hold things within us for extended lengths of time (9
months, for example). Improvisation is a lot like planting seeds, or
ideas - but we all know it takes time and cultivation for those seeds to
grow and for those ideas to come to fruition. So perhaps it should be
emphasized that in order for music to grow and develop, it would be nice
if both of these male and female elements were linked to improvised
music (or any music). Music has obviously grown and developed over time
without a lot of women improvisers on the scene, but I wonder what would
happen if all of a sudden every group was 50 - 50. What would that be
like? Would it work? If not, why not? What could possibly be wrong with
it?

I think of yin and yang - the two qualities that drive Chinese medicine
and the Tao. Chinese medicine describes "yin" organs as those that
"hold" things - like your kidney or your stomach or your lungs. Whereas
"yang" organs are those that push things through - your heart pumps
blood - your intestines move food through your system.

Is there a yin and yang element to the creation of music/and or
improvisation? Do we not both hold information (by listening, for
example?) as well as moving things through a system? (as in the
proliferation of variation, or propelling rhythmic material?). It seems
to me that music will always have both qualities of "holding" (resting,
silence, repeating a motif, playing a long tone, or other musical
activities associated with this metaphor) as well as "moving" in music
(improvised or composed). So it makes sense that men and women should be
active in making music together. It seems so natural that I come back to
asking myself "why aren't there more women improvisers?"

Then I think about the life you have to live to be a musician. I know
plenty of women have sacrificed a lot to commit their life to art -
there are many examples, it's so obvious that I don't think I have to
support that claim. But the word sacrifice comes up pretty quickly when
you think of women in the arts (I believe it comes up whenever you talk
about an artist in America - where funding for the arts is mostly a lost
cause). Still, there is always the notion that a woman is "giving up"
something...like, principally, childhood, to be an artist. Why is that?
Are men not "sacrificing" to be artists too? (I'll say we are...IMO it's
the same for everyone, unless you just happen to have a lot of money -
and if so, right on - enjoy it; spread it around if you can).

Given that the world is grossly overpopulated, I don't think we have to
assume that every woman has to give birth in order to keep the supply
matched with the demand. And yet, we seem to be wired in such a way that
we reach a certain age and start asking ourselves, well, when are the
kids going to show up?

It seems to me that there have been so many women who work or make music
and that those families make it work. A man can just as easily assume
the role of parent while mom goes out to the Luggage Store and turns on
her laptop and makes our ears squiggle. And yet...I don't know that many
families that work that way. 

Are men holding women back from pursuing their art? If so, how does that
play out? Certainly there have been centuries of sexism and cultural
constructs to overcome. I could play devil's advocate and say that women
who sacrifice their roles as the bearers of our children are doing
society a dis-service. But I don't believe that for a minute. There are
too many people on the planet - half the women choosing to have kids
could hold off and we'd still be an overpopulated planet with dwindling
resources. So the idea that childbirth is keeping women from becoming
artists (today) doesn't hold water. A woman can freely choose to not
have kids and society and capitalism will blaze on undisturbed.

So, women don't have to have kids or act out other traditional roles of
women in society. Single, independent women can be artists if they
choose to do so.

But what about the women that want to have children? Most of the women
that I know that are artists that have kids have a partner that shares
in the rearing of those kids. My best friend has slated studio days for
her art and her husband has his slated studio days and they both get
their work done and they have a great kid who is loved and cherished. It
can work.

So, women can be artists and be married and have kids if they want to.
So can men.

And yet, we're still asking the question - where are all the women
improvisers?

I was talking to Ava the other night at a concert and I was saying that
I was wishing I could hear more feminist perspectives from younger
women. We had just heard a piece of music on Shayna Dunkelman's recital
- a collaboration with MC (hi MC!)...

I liked some things about the piece, and I had some considerations with
the piece. The piece used a recording of a man's voice - obviously a
white, right-minded Christian spouting some ridiculous ideas about God
and how women have to be in the home and have to know their place, etc.
etc. etc. In other words: utter bullshit.

My problem with using this recording is that the sentiments on it are so
ridiculous and so slanted to the right that it is too easy of a shot to
sling mud at these right-wing ultra Christian assholes who are living
back in the McCarthy era. What I was longing for was a statement about
what it is to be a woman making this music, not a statement that is so
ludicrous it's beyond ironic or humorous. To be fair to Shayna and MC,
once the recording started to deconstruct and Shayna did less sweeping
and more playing percussion, there was some really nice music happening.
That was obviously the point of the piece - get that old shit out of the
way so we can make something happen! So, on that level the piece worked
nicely.

And yet, upon further reflection, I realize that there are a lot of
assholes out there that still think this way. So as much as I wanted to
say, "no one thinks like that anymore" it just isn't true. There are a
lot of idiots out there holding the opinions that have socially and
psychologically crippled our mothers and fathers and that threaten to
cripple another generation of younger people if they don't resist these
old and brittle notions.

So, I guess instead of wondering what words we should be able to use on
this discussion list, we could be moving ahead and trying to address
some of these issues in real conversations. In other words, let's get
down to business with this discussion, or go back to pretending that the
issues don't exist (that's the American way, right?).

I'm all for discussing it myself. I think it's worth looking at. 

Ava had a response to my criticism of the work I mentioned above - her
response was something like, "well, I'd like to hear some liberated men
making some statements too". That was valuable to hear her say that. I
assume women don't want to hear anything but their own issues. I take
that back...no I don't - yes I do - no I don't - yes I do. No, just
kidding - of course they're dying to hear what we think...but we don't
think anything, no wonder they're frustrated  ;-0

So, what does it mean to be a liberated man today? Are men liberated? Is
this part of the problem? I know women who say they can't let their
guard down to become artists because they have to work so hard to
support the men in their lives (in various ways). Is that true? Are
there women reading and writing on this list who feel that way?

If that's true, then men need to be self-sufficient. Obviously...that's
an essential. We have to take on the task of addressing our existential
concerns - all of us, regardless of gender. Mine existential goals
include making music - making some money to support myself through
teaching - passing on ideas about music to my students - trying to live
in a peaceful, non-violent way that doesn't inflict suffering on others
(I know, I have a long way to go - we all do) - maintaining a commitment
to presenting shows in the bay area - working with artists through my
label and trying to improve my ability to do that. 

I ask myself how does a woman fit in to that? I don't really desire
romance these days, so that may be something I am liberating myself
"from"...we'll see.  I do not depend on women to be sexy, or to be sex
objects. There seem to be plenty of women out there doing it regardless
of my needs. I do not depend on women to cook for me (unless I'm at El
Zocalo...and then, by all means, I'm all for waiting while one of those
Salvadoran women make a few pupusas - they don't seem to mind when I
drop by). I do not depend on a woman to raise my children (don't have
any). I do not depend on women to support me financially. Am I
liberated?

Are overcoming those considerations above an act of liberation? What do
men need to be liberated "from" - to help the equation? 

We could use some women's voices here - I would like to know some
answers to that question. 

Clearly we need to liberate ourselves from the idea that women are our
mothers and they are on the earth to take care of us. I assumed that was
also "old stuff". Clearly we need to liberate ourselves from the idea
that women are here merely for our pleasure. Clearly we need to liberate
ourselves from the idea that women do not need to work, be artists (or
any other activity really) to fulfill their existential needs. We need
to liberate ourselves from the idea that women have to produce babies to
be a real woman, or to be a "complete" human being. We need to liberate
ourselves from the idea that a woman isn't going to be as great an
artist as a man (I would hope no one on this list is holding that
opinion - there are too many examples of brilliant artists who are women
- we can move past that one, right?).

I guess I really don't (think I) know many men who believe in those
things that I listed above. I imagine (I could be wrong) that most of my
men friends are liberated from these ideas. And yet...

I apologize again - I've written way too much here. I'm going to close
and get back to writing some music. I would love to hear some comments
(from some women in particular) on what they think they need from men
(in particular) or from themselves in terms of liberation in order to
move this dialogue forward. Any comments are greatly appreciated. These
thoughts are not complete - of course not - I'm just stabbing away at
the dark, just trying to put some sentences together that have been
floating around in my head for decades. 

Cheers,
Phillip


-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] raphe malik 'sexist' CD

----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] raphe malik 'sexist' CD

> in and of itself, how can the quote be sexist?  is it
> somehow degrading to women to be thought of as clean?

- uh, dude try:

...... 2. words used to describe a woman that tend to be derogatory. If
this
escapes you, think of what it would mean if you used the words "bitch"
or
"pussy" to describe a guy.

PG:
I'm with you Sarah, but just to split hairs, "pussy" was not being used
to describe a woman; it is being used to describe a woman's genitals
(actually, I guess it was used to describe some "fresh" music, which
totally escapes me how that works, but...).

....................................