[NewMusic] acoustic vs. electronic

Tue Jan 9 14:46:28 PST 2007

Yes, I really enjoy the opportunities I have had to work with acoustic
musicians in a live-performance improv setting, such as working w/ Ron
Lettuce at last year's Skronkathon...

I try to think of both the building of new programs/instruments, and
discovering new opportunities within existing sounds/patches/etc, as
"practice" not so different from the studying and practice of more
traditional instruments. Ideally, the act of playing and the music that
results work on their own without having to notice or appreciate the
technologies that went into making it.

So...in order to make the point and inject some much needed levity into
the discussion, I am launching my hastily assembled "Guess the
Electronics" game.

http://www.ptank.com/catsynth/index.php?entry=entry070109-142012

See if you can guess what technologies/software, or acoustics went into
each example.

  -Amar

> I think the meeting of acoustic and electronic
> instruments is one of the most exciting things
> happening in music right now, as it forces each set to
> deal with the other and thus expands everyone's
> vocabulary.
>
> A lot of the anti-electronic sentiment I've heard (and
> even expressed, oops) has been towards those musicians
> (vague general group, no one in particular) who pick
> up a laptop or effects pedal and obviously haven't put
> much work into the music.  They just buy some cool
> electronic gear and then jump on stage (look I'm a
> musician!).  The same could be said about a lot of DJs
> "Look, I can play a record!"  However, I don't think
> anyone is criticizing the real electronic musicians
> out there (those who have put the time in to master
> their instruments and are making good music).
>
> The other thing is the proliferation of electronic
> music.  There is so much of it right now it can get a
> bit overbearing.  Plus, a lot of acoustic players are
> also now doubling on electronic instruments, or
> modifying their acoustic sounds electronically
> (close-micing, feedback tenor, etc.).  I actually just
> went through a week in which I decided I was going to
> listen to only purely acoustic music (no electronics
> at all), just to remind myself that such a thing still
> exists.
>
>
> --- kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> matt, i cannot tell if you're defending me or making
>> fun of me, i love that
>> about you.
>>
>> > i can't even ~imagine~ how awesome my max
>> patch[**] would be if i spent
>> > even 1% as many years building it as i have spent
>> practicing my clarinet.
>> > [** really a Csound instrument, not some silly max
>> patch! ]
>>
>> yeah matt, you're right on, that's what i'm talking
>> about,
>> ....um, thanks.
>> does that answer you question, weasel?
>> silly kristin, max patches are for kids, try some
>> real code and a real
>> instrument, right?
>>
>> it is true matt plays a real instrument very very
>> very well and programs in
>> c sound, and i am a lowly max/msp, vocals and
>> samples kid.
>>
>> k
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/8/07, Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Maybe this is the exact kind of comment you are
>> talking about, but:
>> >
>> > i can't even ~imagine~ how awesome my max
>> patch[**] would be if i spent
>> > even 1% as many years building it as i have spent
>> practicing my clarinet.
>> > [** really a Csound instrument, not some silly max
>> patch! ]
>> >
>> > Then again, some of my most enjoyable improvised
>> computer music
>> > performances has just been moving a single slider!
>> >
>> > -m
>> >
>> > On Mon, 8 Jan 2007, kristin miltner wrote:
>> >
>> > >> That's another gap that lots of us would like
>> to close, and have tried
>> > >> to close - the gap between acoustic and
>> electronic instruments. It's
>> > >> been a very rewarding pursuit, mostly because
>> it has forced me to think
>> >
>> > >> like an electronic instrument.
>> > >
>> > > it's nice to hear that -- sometimes i sense an
>> 'acoustic is more legit
>> > than
>> > > electronic' vibe -- it has to do with
>> traditional 'chops' on a guitar or
>> >
>> > > other acoustic instrument being a pretty
>> accessible, very visible
>> > standard,
>> > > vs. the less measurable 'chops' on your laptop,
>> which have to do with
>> > some
>> > > vague idea of the software you built and how
>> complex the live processing
>> > is.
>> > > are people just suspicious since they can't
>> obseve it as directly?
>> > > i get that acoustic vs. computer feeling WAY
>> more than a 'men are more
>> > legit
>> > > musicians than women' vibe but that could be
>> just me being insecure.
>> > > i think in some cases i listen better when i am
>> playing with acoustic
>> > > musicians, because i tend to focus on taking in
>> their sound and working
>> > with
>> > > that as raw material. the improvisation is
>> unified by that process. +
>> > i'm
>> > > not just talking about a max patch that's
>> basically a fancy delay pedal
>> > > someone blows into (although on the other hand
>> simple tools can procuce
>> > > beautiful results). i have to rebuild a patch to
>> really interact with
>> > > someone and each patch is very tuned to the
>> specific person i play with;
>> > it
>> > > has to be!
>> > > it's really hard the more people you have in the
>> mix.
>> > > when mike perlmutter's group radiolaria used to
>> play a lot, our
>> > rehearsals
>> > > really educated me about what kind of a player i
>> was....when i deferred
>> > to
>> > > others, when i wanted to be heard, when i mowed
>> over someone else's
>> > delicate
>> > > thing....
>> > > when i play with another laptop musician
>> sometimes it feel competitive
>> > > instead of cooprative. we are often stacking and
>> layering, not really
>> > > incorporating each other as a source the same
>> way.
>> > >
>> > > k
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 1/8/07, Phillip Greenlief <
>> pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> On Behalf Of kristin miltner
>> > >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] WAS: Re: improvised
>> music - gender & money
>> > >> NOW:Re:???
>> > >>
>> > >> i find the bay area very accommodating;  i
>> can't complain.
>> > >>
>> > >> PG:
>> > >> Glad to hear it.
>> > >>
>> > >> KM:
>> > >> i don't
>> > >> often participate in that, because it's just
>> difficult to work my
>> > >> instrument
>> > >> into a group of improvisationalists -- not that
>> i don't enjoy doing
>> > that
>> > >> once in a while, it's very challenging and i
>> play my max patches
>> > >> entirely
>> > >> differently.
>> > >>
>> > >> PG:
>> > >> That's another gap that lots of us would like
>> to close, and have tried
>> > >> to close - the gap between acoustic and
>> electronic instruments. It's
>> > >> been a very rewarding pursuit, mostly because
>> it has forced me to think
>> > >> like an electronic instrument.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> > >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> > >>
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
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>
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>
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