[NewMusic] acoustic vs. electronic

Amar amar at ptank.com
Tue Jan 9 17:30:24 PST 2007 

David Slusser said:
> 6)	who cares?

Hey, I spent a lot of time on that track back in 2000 ;)
However, it isn't that interesting from a synthesis point of view, just
samples as Matt suggested, but rendered/controlled using OSW.

I took that one out of the challenge, but 1 through 5 are still open.

say...would more people be interested in playing if I added a free CD as a
prize and made it a little more formal? (and of course not just bListers)

  -Amar





> I think Matt is probably closer than I (since I'm really old school)...
>
> 1)	FM synthesis w/ a little ring modulation
> 2)	I've gotten this nurdle several ways - analog synth w/fx
> 3)	easy to get this on analog synth by pushing "resonance"
> 4)	gotta guess modeling
> 5)	sound effect of metal scrape slowed down plus reverb
> 6)	who cares?
>
> On Jan 9, 2007, at 3:06 PM, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
>> OK - i'm sure i will embarrass myself but i'll take the challenge
>> anyway:
>> i assume OSW for the synthesis/manipulation and one of your software
>> synths for the samples/MIDI stuff
>>
>> #1: AM synthesis (from Risset?)
>> #2: ring modulation + distortion on acoustic percussive input
>> #3: physical model flute
>> #4: flute followed by FFT based manipulation of flute sample
>>      [almost thought it was MIDI flute from a sample library --
>> some of
>> those are getting pretty good these days, adding key noises, etc..
>> but the tapering off right before the manipulated stuff sounds too
>> real]
>> #5: mostly slowed down samples with reverb (old school tape effets)
>> #6: MIDI-based basic synthesis with some samples
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Amar wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I really enjoy the opportunities I have had to work with
>>> acoustic
>>> musicians in a live-performance improv setting, such as working w/
>>> Ron
>>> Lettuce at last year's Skronkathon...
>>>
>>> I try to think of both the building of new programs/instruments, and
>>> discovering new opportunities within existing sounds/patches/etc, as
>>> "practice" not so different from the studying and practice of more
>>> traditional instruments. Ideally, the act of playing and the music
>>> that
>>> results work on their own without having to notice or appreciate the
>>> technologies that went into making it.
>>>
>>> So...in order to make the point and inject some much needed levity
>>> into
>>> the discussion, I am launching my hastily assembled "Guess the
>>> Electronics" game.
>>>
>>> http://www.ptank.com/catsynth/index.php?entry=entry070109-142012
>>>
>>> See if you can guess what technologies/software, or acoustics went
>>> into
>>> each example.
>>>
>>>  -Amar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the meeting of acoustic and electronic
>>>> instruments is one of the most exciting things
>>>> happening in music right now, as it forces each set to
>>>> deal with the other and thus expands everyone's
>>>> vocabulary.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of the anti-electronic sentiment I've heard (and
>>>> even expressed, oops) has been towards those musicians
>>>> (vague general group, no one in particular) who pick
>>>> up a laptop or effects pedal and obviously haven't put
>>>> much work into the music.  They just buy some cool
>>>> electronic gear and then jump on stage (look I'm a
>>>> musician!).  The same could be said about a lot of DJs
>>>> "Look, I can play a record!"  However, I don't think
>>>> anyone is criticizing the real electronic musicians
>>>> out there (those who have put the time in to master
>>>> their instruments and are making good music).
>>>>
>>>> The other thing is the proliferation of electronic
>>>> music.  There is so much of it right now it can get a
>>>> bit overbearing.  Plus, a lot of acoustic players are
>>>> also now doubling on electronic instruments, or
>>>> modifying their acoustic sounds electronically
>>>> (close-micing, feedback tenor, etc.).  I actually just
>>>> went through a week in which I decided I was going to
>>>> listen to only purely acoustic music (no electronics
>>>> at all), just to remind myself that such a thing still
>>>> exists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> matt, i cannot tell if you're defending me or making
>>>>> fun of me, i love that
>>>>> about you.
>>>>>
>>>>>> i can't even ~imagine~ how awesome my max
>>>>> patch[**] would be if i spent
>>>>>> even 1% as many years building it as i have spent
>>>>> practicing my clarinet.
>>>>>> [** really a Csound instrument, not some silly max
>>>>> patch! ]
>>>>>
>>>>> yeah matt, you're right on, that's what i'm talking
>>>>> about,
>>>>> ....um, thanks.
>>>>> does that answer you question, weasel?
>>>>> silly kristin, max patches are for kids, try some
>>>>> real code and a real
>>>>> instrument, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> it is true matt plays a real instrument very very
>>>>> very well and programs in
>>>>> c sound, and i am a lowly max/msp, vocals and
>>>>> samples kid.
>>>>>
>>>>> k
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/8/07, Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe this is the exact kind of comment you are
>>>>> talking about, but:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i can't even ~imagine~ how awesome my max
>>>>> patch[**] would be if i spent
>>>>>> even 1% as many years building it as i have spent
>>>>> practicing my clarinet.
>>>>>> [** really a Csound instrument, not some silly max
>>>>> patch! ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then again, some of my most enjoyable improvised
>>>>> computer music
>>>>>> performances has just been moving a single slider!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007, kristin miltner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's another gap that lots of us would like
>>>>> to close, and have tried
>>>>>>>> to close - the gap between acoustic and
>>>>> electronic instruments. It's
>>>>>>>> been a very rewarding pursuit, mostly because
>>>>> it has forced me to think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> like an electronic instrument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it's nice to hear that -- sometimes i sense an
>>>>> 'acoustic is more legit
>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> electronic' vibe -- it has to do with
>>>>> traditional 'chops' on a guitar or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> other acoustic instrument being a pretty
>>>>> accessible, very visible
>>>>>> standard,
>>>>>>> vs. the less measurable 'chops' on your laptop,
>>>>> which have to do with
>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> vague idea of the software you built and how
>>>>> complex the live processing
>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>> are people just suspicious since they can't
>>>>> obseve it as directly?
>>>>>>> i get that acoustic vs. computer feeling WAY
>>>>> more than a 'men are more
>>>>>> legit
>>>>>>> musicians than women' vibe but that could be
>>>>> just me being insecure.
>>>>>>> i think in some cases i listen better when i am
>>>>> playing with acoustic
>>>>>>> musicians, because i tend to focus on taking in
>>>>> their sound and working
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> that as raw material. the improvisation is
>>>>> unified by that process. +
>>>>>> i'm
>>>>>>> not just talking about a max patch that's
>>>>> basically a fancy delay pedal
>>>>>>> someone blows into (although on the other hand
>>>>> simple tools can procuce
>>>>>>> beautiful results). i have to rebuild a patch to
>>>>> really interact with
>>>>>>> someone and each patch is very tuned to the
>>>>> specific person i play with;
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> has to be!
>>>>>>> it's really hard the more people you have in the
>>>>> mix.
>>>>>>> when mike perlmutter's group radiolaria used to
>>>>> play a lot, our
>>>>>> rehearsals
>>>>>>> really educated me about what kind of a player i
>>>>> was....when i deferred
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> others, when i wanted to be heard, when i mowed
>>>>> over someone else's
>>>>>> delicate
>>>>>>> thing....
>>>>>>> when i play with another laptop musician
>>>>> sometimes it feel competitive
>>>>>>> instead of cooprative. we are often stacking and
>>>>> layering, not really
>>>>>>> incorporating each other as a source the same
>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> k
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/8/07, Phillip Greenlief <
>>>>> pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of kristin miltner
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] WAS: Re: improvised
>>>>> music - gender & money
>>>>>>>> NOW:Re:???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i find the bay area very accommodating;  i
>>>>> can't complain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PG:
>>>>>>>> Glad to hear it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KM:
>>>>>>>> i don't
>>>>>>>> often participate in that, because it's just
>>>>> difficult to work my
>>>>>>>> instrument
>>>>>>>> into a group of improvisationalists -- not that
>>>>> i don't enjoy doing
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> once in a while, it's very challenging and i
>>>>> play my max patches
>>>>>>>> entirely
>>>>>>>> differently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PG:
>>>>>>>> That's another gap that lots of us would like
>>>>> to close, and have tried
>>>>>>>> to close - the gap between acoustic and
>>>>> electronic instruments. It's
>>>>>>>> been a very rewarding pursuit, mostly because
>>>>> it has forced me to think
>>>>>>>> like an electronic instrument.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jacob Lindsay
>>>> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>>>> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>

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