[NewMusic] on second thought (was: acoustic vs. electronic)

Amar amar at ptank.com
Tue Jan 9 17:40:41 PST 2007 

> say...would more people be interested in playing if I added a free CD as a
> prize and made it a little more formal? (and of course not just bListers)
>

Actually, forget that idea - let's just keep this fun...
  -Amar


> David Slusser said:
>> 6)	who cares?
>
> Hey, I spent a lot of time on that track back in 2000 ;)
> However, it isn't that interesting from a synthesis point of view, just
> samples as Matt suggested, but rendered/controlled using OSW.
>
> I took that one out of the challenge, but 1 through 5 are still open.
>
> say...would more people be interested in playing if I added a free CD as a
> prize and made it a little more formal? (and of course not just bListers)
>
>   -Amar
>
>
>
>
>
>> I think Matt is probably closer than I (since I'm really old school)...
>>
>> 1)	FM synthesis w/ a little ring modulation
>> 2)	I've gotten this nurdle several ways - analog synth w/fx
>> 3)	easy to get this on analog synth by pushing "resonance"
>> 4)	gotta guess modeling
>> 5)	sound effect of metal scrape slowed down plus reverb
>> 6)	who cares?
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2007, at 3:06 PM, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
>>> OK - i'm sure i will embarrass myself but i'll take the challenge
>>> anyway:
>>> i assume OSW for the synthesis/manipulation and one of your software
>>> synths for the samples/MIDI stuff
>>>
>>> #1: AM synthesis (from Risset?)
>>> #2: ring modulation + distortion on acoustic percussive input
>>> #3: physical model flute
>>> #4: flute followed by FFT based manipulation of flute sample
>>>      [almost thought it was MIDI flute from a sample library --
>>> some of
>>> those are getting pretty good these days, adding key noises, etc..
>>> but the tapering off right before the manipulated stuff sounds too
>>> real]
>>> #5: mostly slowed down samples with reverb (old school tape effets)
>>> #6: MIDI-based basic synthesis with some samples
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Amar wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, I really enjoy the opportunities I have had to work with
>>>> acoustic
>>>> musicians in a live-performance improv setting, such as working w/
>>>> Ron
>>>> Lettuce at last year's Skronkathon...
>>>>
>>>> I try to think of both the building of new programs/instruments, and
>>>> discovering new opportunities within existing sounds/patches/etc, as
>>>> "practice" not so different from the studying and practice of more
>>>> traditional instruments. Ideally, the act of playing and the music
>>>> that
>>>> results work on their own without having to notice or appreciate the
>>>> technologies that went into making it.
>>>>
>>>> So...in order to make the point and inject some much needed levity
>>>> into
>>>> the discussion, I am launching my hastily assembled "Guess the
>>>> Electronics" game.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ptank.com/catsynth/index.php?entry=entry070109-142012
>>>>
>>>> See if you can guess what technologies/software, or acoustics went
>>>> into
>>>> each example.
>>>>
>>>>  -Amar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think the meeting of acoustic and electronic
>>>>> instruments is one of the most exciting things
>>>>> happening in music right now, as it forces each set to
>>>>> deal with the other and thus expands everyone's
>>>>> vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of the anti-electronic sentiment I've heard (and
>>>>> even expressed, oops) has been towards those musicians
>>>>> (vague general group, no one in particular) who pick
>>>>> up a laptop or effects pedal and obviously haven't put
>>>>> much work into the music.  They just buy some cool
>>>>> electronic gear and then jump on stage (look I'm a
>>>>> musician!).  The same could be said about a lot of DJs
>>>>> "Look, I can play a record!"  However, I don't think
>>>>> anyone is criticizing the real electronic musicians
>>>>> out there (those who have put the time in to master
>>>>> their instruments and are making good music).
>>>>>
>>>>> The other thing is the proliferation of electronic
>>>>> music.  There is so much of it right now it can get a
>>>>> bit overbearing.  Plus, a lot of acoustic players are
>>>>> also now doubling on electronic instruments, or
>>>>> modifying their acoustic sounds electronically
>>>>> (close-micing, feedback tenor, etc.).  I actually just
>>>>> went through a week in which I decided I was going to
>>>>> listen to only purely acoustic music (no electronics
>>>>> at all), just to remind myself that such a thing still
>>>>> exists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> matt, i cannot tell if you're defending me or making
>>>>>> fun of me, i love that
>>>>>> about you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i can't even ~imagine~ how awesome my max
>>>>>> patch[**] would be if i spent
>>>>>>> even 1% as many years building it as i have spent
>>>>>> practicing my clarinet.
>>>>>>> [** really a Csound instrument, not some silly max
>>>>>> patch! ]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yeah matt, you're right on, that's what i'm talking
>>>>>> about,
>>>>>> ....um, thanks.
>>>>>> does that answer you question, weasel?
>>>>>> silly kristin, max patches are for kids, try some
>>>>>> real code and a real
>>>>>> instrument, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it is true matt plays a real instrument very very
>>>>>> very well and programs in
>>>>>> c sound, and i am a lowly max/msp, vocals and
>>>>>> samples kid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> k
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/8/07, Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe this is the exact kind of comment you are
>>>>>> talking about, but:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i can't even ~imagine~ how awesome my max
>>>>>> patch[**] would be if i spent
>>>>>>> even 1% as many years building it as i have spent
>>>>>> practicing my clarinet.
>>>>>>> [** really a Csound instrument, not some silly max
>>>>>> patch! ]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then again, some of my most enjoyable improvised
>>>>>> computer music
>>>>>>> performances has just been moving a single slider!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2007, kristin miltner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's another gap that lots of us would like
>>>>>> to close, and have tried
>>>>>>>>> to close - the gap between acoustic and
>>>>>> electronic instruments. It's
>>>>>>>>> been a very rewarding pursuit, mostly because
>>>>>> it has forced me to think
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> like an electronic instrument.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it's nice to hear that -- sometimes i sense an
>>>>>> 'acoustic is more legit
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> electronic' vibe -- it has to do with
>>>>>> traditional 'chops' on a guitar or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> other acoustic instrument being a pretty
>>>>>> accessible, very visible
>>>>>>> standard,
>>>>>>>> vs. the less measurable 'chops' on your laptop,
>>>>>> which have to do with
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> vague idea of the software you built and how
>>>>>> complex the live processing
>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>> are people just suspicious since they can't
>>>>>> obseve it as directly?
>>>>>>>> i get that acoustic vs. computer feeling WAY
>>>>>> more than a 'men are more
>>>>>>> legit
>>>>>>>> musicians than women' vibe but that could be
>>>>>> just me being insecure.
>>>>>>>> i think in some cases i listen better when i am
>>>>>> playing with acoustic
>>>>>>>> musicians, because i tend to focus on taking in
>>>>>> their sound and working
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> that as raw material. the improvisation is
>>>>>> unified by that process. +
>>>>>>> i'm
>>>>>>>> not just talking about a max patch that's
>>>>>> basically a fancy delay pedal
>>>>>>>> someone blows into (although on the other hand
>>>>>> simple tools can procuce
>>>>>>>> beautiful results). i have to rebuild a patch to
>>>>>> really interact with
>>>>>>>> someone and each patch is very tuned to the
>>>>>> specific person i play with;
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> has to be!
>>>>>>>> it's really hard the more people you have in the
>>>>>> mix.
>>>>>>>> when mike perlmutter's group radiolaria used to
>>>>>> play a lot, our
>>>>>>> rehearsals
>>>>>>>> really educated me about what kind of a player i
>>>>>> was....when i deferred
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> others, when i wanted to be heard, when i mowed
>>>>>> over someone else's
>>>>>>> delicate
>>>>>>>> thing....
>>>>>>>> when i play with another laptop musician
>>>>>> sometimes it feel competitive
>>>>>>>> instead of cooprative. we are often stacking and
>>>>>> layering, not really
>>>>>>>> incorporating each other as a source the same
>>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> k
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/8/07, Phillip Greenlief <
>>>>>> pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of kristin miltner
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] WAS: Re: improvised
>>>>>> music - gender & money
>>>>>>>>> NOW:Re:???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i find the bay area very accommodating;  i
>>>>>> can't complain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PG:
>>>>>>>>> Glad to hear it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KM:
>>>>>>>>> i don't
>>>>>>>>> often participate in that, because it's just
>>>>>> difficult to work my
>>>>>>>>> instrument
>>>>>>>>> into a group of improvisationalists -- not that
>>>>>> i don't enjoy doing
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> once in a while, it's very challenging and i
>>>>>> play my max patches
>>>>>>>>> entirely
>>>>>>>>> differently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PG:
>>>>>>>>> That's another gap that lots of us would like
>>>>>> to close, and have tried
>>>>>>>>> to close - the gap between acoustic and
>>>>>> electronic instruments. It's
>>>>>>>>> been a very rewarding pursuit, mostly because
>>>>>> it has forced me to think
>>>>>>>>> like an electronic instrument.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacob Lindsay
>>>>> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>>>>>
>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

More information about the NewMusic mailing list