From weaselw at juno.com  Sun Jul  1 01:53:16 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 01:53:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] weasel walter free jazz overdubs - download them here
Message-ID: <20070701.015317.1868.34.weaselw@juno.com>

http://themoreyouthinkaboutit.blogspot.com/

i stumbled across this guy that has devoted his blog to posting most of
my free jazz karaoke recordings and some other stuff like that. what a
trooper. i love it when i don't have to promote myself!

ww

weasel walter

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 11:43:29 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] The breathtakingly bad Phil
	Collins...(bububut...Foxtrot? Nursery Crimes?)
In-Reply-To: <556475.49939.qm@web50307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <308185.56431.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm with you Mr. Lettuce....and your Richard Dreyfuss analogy is spot on!
   
  The last time I saw Genesis it was the first tour they did without Peter (I saw the final tour as well...fucking amazing...to a 16 year old anyway...). Bill Bruford and Phil Collins were playing drums on that tour (so Collins could sing some of the stuff without playing drums). They did a great drum duo that I can still (sort of remember), but the memory stands that it was amazing.
   
  Keep in mind this was a time when REO Speedwagon and other mindless bands were dominating the FM dial (I'm copping Gino's comment from the other day). I was already into jazz, but not improvised or other alternative musics. So hearing The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway live with "some drummer named Phil" was pretty fucking sweet.
   
  PG
  

Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Hard to believe that that's the same guy who was singing about snakes slithering through the antichamber back in the 70s. (how soon we forget that he was in Genesis, I mean "Genesis, the early years, when thier music was good"...I don't know if you're poking fun at this time with the "epic song structures" jab, but if you don't know what this means, you should really go search out Foxtrot or Nursery Crimes, unless you REALLY hate prog rock...). Try telling anyone born after 1980 this "You know, Phil Collins, and Peter Gabriel used to be in one of the greatest Prog Rock bands of all time...and thier music was pretty good..."

but alas, sadly, he is the Richard Dreyfuss of Rock music...


lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: corey fogel 
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:25:14 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The breathtakingly bad Phil Collins


i sincerely hope that the ebbs and flows of my improvising have half the
lyricism of Phil Collins' phrases as a singer and drummer; that my sonic
pallette resonates as lucidly with my bag of tricks as the pairing of his
melodies/vocal timbre, and that any horizontal or vertical architecture has
half the integrity of many of his epic song structures.

oh, and I really hope someday soon to master his ridiculously tasteful way
of filling over the barline into beginning of the next measure ("In The Air
Tonight", and "Take Me Home")

corey

Matt Davignon:

> When I talk about making music for other people, there's always
> jumping to the extreme of "oh, let's get on KFOG". That's not what I'm
> talking about - if you try to make music for everyone, you'll turn
> into Phil Collins. It's more about understanding that there are people
> who like listening to unusual music, acknowledging that you're one of
> them, and trying to make the music you'd like to hear from yourself if
> you were hearing it from someone else's ears.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 11:49:43 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] celebrating Phil Collins with Frith
In-Reply-To: <20070628.122314.7556.56.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <10927.51673.qm@web81414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Right on.
   
  Fred Frith and I were having a conversation about recording "Before and After Science" with Brian Eno. I loved that record, and Another Green World, and I was asking him about Eno's recording process for those records (I was mistaken about Another Green World - Frith is "thanked" by Eno on that record - I rememberd it that Frith played on the recording)....

  Anyways, Frith and I started talking about Phil Collins and he was raving about what a great drummer he was (as if he had to convince me). He says there were some pieces they did just improvising - with Collins on drums and Frith playing his guitar on a table with drum sticks...he wants to know where those tracks disappeared to, because he felt they were amazing...
   
  PG
   
  
weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
  if my music can achieve just one 1/3 of the excitement and tension of the
final coda to "the return of the giant hogweed" by genesis, then i can
die a happy corey fogel.

ww

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Ron Lettuce
writes:
> Hard to believe that that's the same guy who was singing about snakes 
> slithering through the antichamber back in the 70s. (how soon we 
> forget that he was in Genesis, I mean "Genesis, the early years, 
> when thier music was good"...I don't know if you're poking fun at 
> this time with the "epic song structures" jab, but if you don't know 
> what this means, you should really go search out Foxtrot or Nursery 
> Crimes, unless you REALLY hate prog rock...). Try telling anyone 
> born after 1980 this "You know, Phil Collins, and Peter Gabriel used 
> to be in one of the greatest Prog Rock bands of all time...and thier 
> music was pretty good..."
> 
> but alas, sadly, he is the Richard Dreyfuss of Rock music...
> 
> 
> lettuce
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: corey fogel 
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:25:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The breathtakingly bad Phil Collins
> 
> 
> i sincerely hope that the ebbs and flows of my improvising have half 
> the
> lyricism of Phil Collins' phrases as a singer and drummer; that my 
> sonic
> pallette resonates as lucidly with my bag of tricks as the pairing 
> of his
> melodies/vocal timbre, and that any horizontal or vertical 
> architecture has
> half the integrity of many of his epic song structures.
> 
> oh, and I really hope someday soon to master his ridiculously 
> tasteful way
> of filling over the barline into beginning of the next measure ("In 
> The Air
> Tonight", and "Take Me Home")
> 
> corey
> 
> Matt Davignon:
> 
> > When I talk about making music for other people, there's always
> > jumping to the extreme of "oh, let's get on KFOG". That's not what 
> I'm
> > talking about - if you try to make music for everyone, you'll 
> turn
> > into Phil Collins. It's more about understanding that there are 
> people
> > who like listening to unusual music, acknowledging that you're one 
> of
> > them, and trying to make the music you'd like to hear from 
> yourself if
> > you were hearing it from someone else's ears.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Mon Jul  2 13:34:55 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:34:55 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] celebrating Phil Collins with Frith
In-Reply-To: <10927.51673.qm@web81414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070628.122314.7556.56.weaselw@juno.com>
	<10927.51673.qm@web81414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707021334m58e120e2la60023b36a1b3917@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be honest - Phil Collins frightens me. I'm aware of his
reputation as an excellent prog rock drummer in the 70's, even though
I haven't heard any of the tracks.  (Though I think Phil Collins is on
some of my favorite Talking Heads records - or is that Robert Palmer?)

You know what that means though? That means all the stuff Phil has
been doing since 1985 is the stuff you do "after" great things. Could
it be the next step of development for musicians?

Interesting note - apparently he recently collaborated with Bone Thugs
n' Harmony, doing the chorus vocals for their rap to his song. He's in
the video and everything. They made him an honorary thug and gave him
the name "Chrome Bone".

Matt

On 7/2/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
> Right on.
>
>   Fred Frith and I were having a conversation about recording "Before and After Science" with Brian Eno. I loved that record, and Another Green World, and I was asking him about Eno's recording process for those records (I was mistaken about Another Green World - Frith is "thanked" by Eno on that record - I rememberd it that Frith played on the recording)....
>
>   Anyways, Frith and I started talking about Phil Collins and he was raving about what a great drummer he was (as if he had to convince me). He says there were some pieces they did just improvising - with Collins on drums and Frith playing his guitar on a table with drum sticks...he wants to know where those tracks disappeared to, because he felt they were amazing...
>
>   PG
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 15:36:45 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:36:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Noisy People Review Online
In-Reply-To: <34EC3AC09ED2D24288CDD6BB1A348511066E2D7B@exchange.ceb.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c7bcf9$79055660$4001a8c0@PG>

Hey Henry,

Nice objective review that lays out nicely what the film is all
about...thanks for taking the time to think about it and do some nice
writing in response. I also appreciate that you covered Kenneth and
Letitia's position in the piece.

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Henry Kuntz
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:28 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion List (Bay Area New Music Discussion
List)
Subject: [NewMusic] Noisy People Review Online

My review of Noisy People is online at metropolis:
http://www.m-etropolis.com/wordpress/?language=en
<http://www.m-etropolis.com/wordpress/?language=en> 
It will be archived on the BELLS page here:
http://www.m-etropolis.com/bells/ <http://www.m-etropolis.com/bells/> 
under
henry kuntz and the bells story continues  <javascript: pge.o(75);>
here...
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 15:58:44 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:58:44 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <F47ABBBF-2404-4D7A-A8EE-5322CE7A748C@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <000001c7bcfc$8b40f8e0$4001a8c0@PG>

----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of John Shiurba
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county

i've been in wayne (shorter) county for about umpteen years now, and  
i still can't stand f*cking bitches brew.

PG:
That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't like?

I'm curious, because I've always had uneasy feelings about that record
as well. I always found it ironic that this was the first "jazz" record
to make gold record status (of course, Columbia advertised it in Rolling
Stone - which probably didn't hurt record sales). There are some nice
moments and grooves, but I don't like it as much as Live Evil or some of
the other electric stuff from that era. Live Evil is really raw, and I
like that.

As far as Wayne goes, he's the reason I play saxophone. I think it was
Mysterious Traveller - which I heard as a senior in high school...it was
something about the timbre of his soprano - it had this really clear
sound that cut through all the wash of texture that band was apt at
producing.  I fell in love with it and began trying to find out where I
could get my hands on a soprano saxophone. I found a pawn shop in Canoga
Park that had an old silver Conn - I hooked up with her right away and
played that horn for several years until I got an upgrade. I started
playing tenor about two years later - I thought I was just going to play
soprano for life (this was about 3 years before I discovered Steve
Lacy). I'm glad I made friends with the tenor, an extremely valuable
relationship. It was my dad that convinced me I should play tenor - not
"just" soprano.

Today, I'm not such a fan of Wayne's soprano sound - more often than not
it got the microphone in the bell treatment by those engineers, and I
grew to hate that sound in short order. But I still love Wayne's tenor
playing and his big Otto Link sound, which comes with all sorts of
squirrelly intonation issues - one of the things I like so much about
his playing - it doesn't sound as "controlled" as the other great tenor
players - it always sounds a little like he's going to spin out of
control with the intonation - it's that tension that arises from the
intonation that I like so much when I listen to him (in addition to his
brilliant lyricism!).  Along with some of those recordings he did with
Miles in that amazing quintet (with Hancock, Carter and Williams), I
still enjoy listening to pretty much all of the Blue Note recordings he
made...Ju-Ju is among my favorites - it's fantastic to hear him with
Coltrane's rhythm section of the day (Garrison, Tyner, Jones).


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:12:18 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:12:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <A12AE616-FF3F-4D91-8F18-0EBF2ED629B8@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of David Slusser
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Tom Duff wrote:
>
> It's pretty obvious that Hadju and Zorn differ fundamentally on the  
> nature
> of music and the composer's role in it.  My experience is that when  
> people
> have aesthetic disagreements and one of them gets angry (I think  
> accusing
> an artist of being "elementally corrupt" entails anger) it's usually
> because his inability to understand the other's point of view leads  
> him to
> believe that his opponent cannot really hold his stated position  
> and so
> must be insincere.

Wow.  Thanks, Tom, and the ensuing thread.
David Hajdu's biography of Strayhorn, "Lush
Life", is incredibly great, on all levels, so it
was amazing to read him tear into someone
else I'm familiar with.

PG:
Thanks, David - great post.

I was enjoying reading this thread on the road but never had time to
comment on it. Then I got out of email range and when I returned to
Slusser's comment, I found he had said many things I would have said. I
also enjoyed Hadju's book on Strayhorn, so I was also disappointed to
read the article on JZ.

Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so painful to
read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's venom
floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

Anyway, great response Mr. Slusser. Write on.


From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Jul  2 16:23:39 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:23:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <41CD421B-27FD-4A6A-88ED-ED2B1247C639@pixar.com>

On Jul 2, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> I was enjoying reading this thread on the road but never had time to
> comment on it. Then I got out of email range and when I returned to
> Slusser's comment, I found he had said many things I would have  
> said. I
> also enjoyed Hadju's book on Strayhorn, so I was also disappointed to
> read the article on JZ.
>
> Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so  
> painful to
> read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
> something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's  
> venom
> floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

...figured PG was out of town since he hadn't weighed in.

Wanted to add that when I printed out Hadju's article for reference,
I saw the header I hadn't noticed before.  In big bold letters:

TZADICK  (instead of Tzadik)

(now that's nasty)

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:27:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:27:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <265DA4AB-C914-45D8-8E00-F7E46B844BED@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd00$83f06d10$4001a8c0@PG>

PG:

Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I had
to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking Billie
Holliday clone...makes me sick.

I heard him do a marvelous improvisation with Donald Robison once on a
Larry Ochs Sax and Drumming Core set. They were communicating in a
really beautiful way and time was not particularly present or important.
The truth is: he can play his ass off at times. Steve Adams put together
a double trio once that I played in, Gino and Amendola on drums...that
was nice!

I am a solid veteran of the Scott Amendola experience. We parted due to
economic reasons. It's a long story, but not terribly interesting. I'd
tell it, but as I once said on this list, I'm trying to live by that
lesson so many of our mothers tried to teach: "If you can't say
something nice about someone, don't say anything". The truth is, I
respect him regardless of our differences - as a human being. As a
drummer, he does certain things very well, and one of those things is
laying down a groove.

With a little more regard to his playing, I grew tired of always having
the big beat shoved up my ass. It's probably best we parted ways.  He's
a heavy handed drummer. Sometimes that's just what you want. But I'd
rather play with Tom Hassett any day of the week - but no one (certainly
not your average hipster) knows who Tom Hassett is, so he's probably not
a very good drummer...

;)

PG



----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of David Slusser
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand

Pardon more verbiage, but there are still points out there to be
made.  Tuesday's show @ 21Grand (7/26) may be an example.
I missed the write-up in the Express, and don't know precisely
what drew the nice size audience (besides the kids from Oregon
traveling with their boy/girl friends).  The auslanders certainly
resemble Jacob's description - I found them predictable with
barely tolerable technique, but actually enjoyed the energy when
they would finally build up a head of steam (and le Gruntfest's
guest turn certainly elevated the proceedings).  Hopefully they will
develop.  I think the WWCC was exceptionally good, but doubt the
audience was attracted to the prospect of "too much gloom for one
room" (in other words, a clarinet ensemble).

Perhaps it was the appeal of the Amendola/Bossi duo that graced us
with their audience.  I certainly won't look a gift horse in the mouth
for putting butts in seats for a night of improvised music.  I don't
think the percussionists were being disingenuous about trying to
play a totally free music set.  Why do I view them with a jaundiced
eye?  Because they don't play free music all the time?  Because they
may be more calculating or aggressive about making it in the music
business?  That there's an audience willing to hear them do just
about anything?  Are these the hipsters Jacob mentioned?  We
should thank the duo for bringing the hipsters in and hope our best
efforts rubbed off on them.

For those that split before the headliners - there were bits that were
predictable and cute, but those are also elements that widen the net
for audience.  I liked their counterpoint and textures, and how they
morphed.  Good listening is not so hard in a duo, but I felt they
used it more to just keep an implied time going - almost desperate
some times.  Perhaps that makes them visitors to the scene - they
didn't really let go of time...maybe that's too much to expect of
drummers.  Otherwise, their imaginativeness and taste were quite
enjoyable.  They could use a few lessons from Moe and Gino about
playing the floor and other off-set surfaces/objects - but at least
they tried the concept.

  Hipsters welcomed?


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:33:32 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:33:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <20070628.132614.7556.63.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c7bd01$67d22230$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand

i'd love to hear who scott thinks the bullshit artists are . . . 

ww

PG:
Anyone who isn't making money at the game...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:38:28 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:38:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] threadless
In-Reply-To: <255882.24951.qm@web58712.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c7bd02$181126f0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Moe! Staiano
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly annoying

...for the fact that I have  40+ messages in my inbox, only to be
deleted. I truly now hate these discussion that drag on. Ugh. 

       
PG:
Then don't take part in them.

On the other hand, although I was away and didn't have a chance to read
them in the moment, I'm enjoying spending my "day of relaxation" after
my trip browsing through the minds of my fellow colleagues.

But yeah, there are a lot of threads in this quilt. Since the threads
have changed so much it's fine to change the subject line once in a
while...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:40:14 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:40:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney
In-Reply-To: <C2A976EC.1E2CF%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <000301c7bd02$57a19520$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney

- not mine! My fave is Jacob Lindsay and the Lindsay Lohan Coke Habits -
sensitive listening meets psychobilly covering songs by The Cramps!

sl

PG:
I want to play in that band!!!!!!!!!!
 
God damn, you're a fucking genius, Sarah!!!!!!!


From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 16:40:56 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:40:56 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>

bitches brew is just a little boring, that's all. it's no biggie. it's a
real pot-smoker, mellow-out kind of record. some people are into it. the
skronk-inclined tend to pass on it. 

ww 

> PG:
> That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't 
> like?

From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 16:42:55 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:42:55 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
Message-ID: <20070702.164300.1868.64.weaselw@juno.com>

> Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I 
> had to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking 
> Billie Holliday clone...makes me sick.

i suppose you are who you play with, huh?

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:41:41 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:41:41 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40706281436o38393945g1bc3d2196befcda0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c7bd02$8b7603e0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney

I've always wanted to head up Caril Ann and the Blue Fugates.
"Good evening everyone, I'm Caril Ann, and I swear I'm innocent!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caril_Ann_Fugate
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980724.html

P.

PG:
That sounds like a cocktail you get in Waikiki....
And the greeting sounds like the morning after...


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Mon Jul  2 16:42:47 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:42:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <000001c7bd00$83f06d10$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7bd00$83f06d10$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <26BA7C1C-D5AA-4C16-9C60-79E779555889@balancepointacoustics.com>

The last time I heard him, he sounded good, and had dynamics. Most of  
the the other times he was burying the other musicians, which does  
not count as "being able to play" in my book, esp. from a drummer ( I  
will admit to couple amature hour moments recently myself while re- 
learning how to deal with amps, but I am also not getting that kind  
of hype.)
I respect Larry, but I can't get into him as a replacement for Lisle.  
There are tons of interesting options for a local trio with Donald  
while Lisle is away and I don't find that to be one of them.


Damon


On Jul 2, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> PG:
>
> Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I  
> had
> to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking Billie
> Holliday clone...makes me sick.
>
> I heard him do a marvelous improvisation with Donald Robison once on a
> Larry Ochs Sax and Drumming Core set. They were communicating in a
> really beautiful way and time was not particularly present or  
> important.
> The truth is: he can play his ass off at times. Steve Adams put  
> together
> a double trio once that I played in, Gino and Amendola on drums...that
> was nice!
>
> I am a solid veteran of the Scott Amendola experience. We parted  
> due to
> economic reasons. It's a long story, but not terribly interesting. I'd
> tell it, but as I once said on this list, I'm trying to live by that
> lesson so many of our mothers tried to teach: "If you can't say
> something nice about someone, don't say anything". The truth is, I
> respect him regardless of our differences - as a human being. As a
> drummer, he does certain things very well, and one of those things is
> laying down a groove.
>
> With a little more regard to his playing, I grew tired of always  
> having
> the big beat shoved up my ass. It's probably best we parted ways.   
> He's
> a heavy handed drummer. Sometimes that's just what you want. But I'd
> rather play with Tom Hassett any day of the week - but no one  
> (certainly
> not your average hipster) knows who Tom Hassett is, so he's  
> probably not
> a very good drummer...
>
> ;)
>
> PG
>
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of David Slusser
> Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
>
> Pardon more verbiage, but there are still points out there to be
> made.  Tuesday's show @ 21Grand (7/26) may be an example.
> I missed the write-up in the Express, and don't know precisely
> what drew the nice size audience (besides the kids from Oregon
> traveling with their boy/girl friends).  The auslanders certainly
> resemble Jacob's description - I found them predictable with
> barely tolerable technique, but actually enjoyed the energy when
> they would finally build up a head of steam (and le Gruntfest's
> guest turn certainly elevated the proceedings).  Hopefully they will
> develop.  I think the WWCC was exceptionally good, but doubt the
> audience was attracted to the prospect of "too much gloom for one
> room" (in other words, a clarinet ensemble).
>
> Perhaps it was the appeal of the Amendola/Bossi duo that graced us
> with their audience.  I certainly won't look a gift horse in the mouth
> for putting butts in seats for a night of improvised music.  I don't
> think the percussionists were being disingenuous about trying to
> play a totally free music set.  Why do I view them with a jaundiced
> eye?  Because they don't play free music all the time?  Because they
> may be more calculating or aggressive about making it in the music
> business?  That there's an audience willing to hear them do just
> about anything?  Are these the hipsters Jacob mentioned?  We
> should thank the duo for bringing the hipsters in and hope our best
> efforts rubbed off on them.
>
> For those that split before the headliners - there were bits that were
> predictable and cute, but those are also elements that widen the net
> for audience.  I liked their counterpoint and textures, and how they
> morphed.  Good listening is not so hard in a duo, but I felt they
> used it more to just keep an implied time going - almost desperate
> some times.  Perhaps that makes them visitors to the scene - they
> didn't really let go of time...maybe that's too much to expect of
> drummers.  Otherwise, their imaginativeness and taste were quite
> enjoyable.  They could use a few lessons from Moe and Gino about
> playing the floor and other off-set surfaces/objects - but at least
> they tried the concept.
>
>   Hipsters welcomed?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:58:59 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:58:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <20070702.164300.1868.64.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c7bd04$f5db3050$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand

> Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I 
> had to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking 
> Billie Holliday clone...makes me sick.

i suppose you are who you play with, huh?

ww
 
PG:
That's a really good question, I should think. Yeah-people you play with
rub off on you. In this case, Scott was well into groove before Madeline
came along. 

Perhaps the question is: did he rub off on me? 
I don't think so.
In other words, I'm still not making money at this game.
;)

(the statements above are expressed in jest, with a dose of humor -
hopefully - I have no resentment or animosity toward Scott).


From jfheule at gmail.com  Mon Jul  2 18:37:01 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 18:37:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] photos
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707021837s42fe18d1mddf2f9145241d7ac@mail.gmail.com>

New in the photostream: Womantis (Boisen, Chessa, Fullmann, Nishi,
Wong), Sweet Glass Mouth (Gowns), Archaeopteryx, Sword & Sandals,
Woman's Worth, Mari Caust (Jakobsons, Karim, Teale),
Butcher/Lee/M?ller/Nilssen-Love, Sten Sandell Trio, Butcher/M?ller/van
der Schyff, Bennink/Chadbourne/et al., etc.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/sets/72157600278274486/

If anyone wants to donate $25 for me to upgrade my account,
functionality would be slightly improved... Paypal this address.

jacob
-- 
http://ettrick.org
http://myspace.com/ettrick
http://heule.us
http://myspace.com/jacobfelix

From tjohns at mills.edu  Mon Jul  2 20:34:16 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 20:34:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1183433656.4689c3b8a6049@webmail.mills.edu>

whoa. never go a week without checking yr newmus acct... the sheer
exhilaration of sorting through nearly 300 differing opinions on just
about every subject under the sun... fucking... amazing..? ...
overwhelming? ... staggering? other words that end in -ing...!?

so, uhm, have we actually gone as far as to begin bitches-bashing? shit,
that's almost as bad as listening to some 18 year old "heepster" recite
the age old dribble of "yah, I like totally dig the beach boys, like,
waaay more than the beatles..." or for that matter, listening to the
umpteenth umpteen year old at the il corral vehemently exclaim "you
know, like, noise is the new punk...!"

hehheh, how original.

eh, I dunno, maybe it's just my age and upbringing, but bitches was
probably one of the first discs of "out" music that invaded me noggin
way back in the wayback that had a lasting effect on yours truly... I
mean, yeah, it didn't quite have the same face-melting effect as the
first time that I heard spiritual unity or philosophy of the world, but
shit, I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of those
legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm, yah, that
solo was quite compelling, but you should really hear this rare
pressing recorded by this franciscan monk in sweden that features this
overblown inverse retrograde line blown while some other legendary
(what do you mean you've NEVER heard of him???) crumhorn player was
sitting in... i mean, he doesn't actually PLAY on the record, but the
sheer fact that he was in the room at the time..."

eh, just reeling it in and all that - i don't mean to be more
vindictively snarkful than usual, but I'm sure we can find better
convopaths to follow other than "hands up if you like bitches... ok,
now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

besides, if you really want the "marijuana" experience, toss on a copy
of disc 2 of the complete in a silent way sessions... not like i'd
know, of course...

... sorry, it's been awhile - thought I'd interject with an opinion or
two...

t.

Quoting weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>:

> bitches brew is just a little boring, that's all. it's no biggie.
> it's a
> real pot-smoker, mellow-out kind of record. some people are into it.
> the
> skronk-inclined tend to pass on it.
>
> ww
>
> > PG:
> > That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't
> > like?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From tjohns at mills.edu  Mon Jul  2 20:34:21 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 20:34:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1183433661.4689c3bdea609@webmail.mills.edu>

whoa. never go a week without checking yr newmus acct... the sheer
exhilaration of sorting through nearly 300 differing opinions on just
about every subject under the sun... fucking... amazing..? ...
overwhelming? ... staggering? other words that end in -ing...!?

so, uhm, have we actually gone as far as to begin bitches-bashing? shit,
that's almost as bad as listening to some 18 year old "heepster" recite
the age old dribble of "yah, I like totally dig the beach boys, like,
waaay more than the beatles..." or for that matter, listening to the
umpteenth umpteen year old at the il corral vehemently exclaim "you
know, like, noise is the new punk...!"

hehheh, how original.

eh, I dunno, maybe it's just my age and upbringing, but bitches was
probably one of the first discs of "out" music that invaded me noggin
way back in the wayback that had a lasting effect on yours truly... I
mean, yeah, it didn't quite have the same face-melting effect as the
first time that I heard spiritual unity or philosophy of the world, but
shit, I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of those
legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm, yah, that
solo was quite compelling, but you should really hear this rare
pressing recorded by this franciscan monk in sweden that features this
overblown inverse retrograde line blown while some other legendary
(what do you mean you've NEVER heard of him???) crumhorn player was
sitting in... i mean, he doesn't actually PLAY on the record, but the
sheer fact that he was in the room at the time..."

eh, just reeling it in and all that - i don't mean to be more
vindictively snarkful than usual, but I'm sure we can find better
convopaths to follow other than "hands up if you like bitches... ok,
now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

besides, if you really want the "marijuana" experience, toss on a copy
of disc 2 of the complete in a silent way sessions... not like i'd
know, of course...

... sorry, it's been awhile - thought I'd interject with an opinion or
two...

t.

Quoting weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>:

> bitches brew is just a little boring, that's all. it's no biggie.
> it's a
> real pot-smoker, mellow-out kind of record. some people are into it.
> the
> skronk-inclined tend to pass on it.
>
> ww
>
> > PG:
> > That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't
> > like?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 20:45:03 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:45:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070702.204515.1868.78.weaselw@juno.com>

>I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of 
> those legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm, yah, 
> that solo was quite compelling . . . 

why? says who? 

furthermore saying something like "on the corner" would appeal to damon
smith more than bitches brew" is not obscuritantism in the slightest. it
was, like, a few albums later and, like bitches brew, can be found for 2
dollars in a used vinyl bin any day of the week. 

you're pretty much just making a big deal out of nothing. nobody else
here has their panties in a bunch about it. just you. chill out. 

ww

From amar at ptank.com  Mon Jul  2 20:42:55 2007
From: amar at ptank.com (Amar)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <1183433656.4689c3b8a6049@webmail.mills.edu>
References: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
	<1183433656.4689c3b8a6049@webmail.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <62605.69.107.76.227.1183434175.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>

Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might as
well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download service. 
This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you to
place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your music in
non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not interesting). 
CDBaby works directly with them as well.

Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?

  -Amar


--------
Amar Chaudhary
http://www.amar-music.info
http://www.myspace.com/amarchaudhary



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 20:52:11 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:52:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
Message-ID: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>

i'm having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded store .
. . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc. it's
almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm awaiting a
response about this dilemma. 

in theory it seems fine, in practice it's kind of rough at the moment.
i'm getting paid by i-tunes pretty regularly, so i'm not dying to get my
snocap crap streamlined right this second.

ww
 
On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:42:55 -0700 (PDT) "Amar" <amar at ptank.com> writes:
> Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might 
> as
> well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download 
> service. 
> This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you 
> to
> place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your 
> music in
> non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not 
> interesting). 
> CDBaby works directly with them as well.
> 
> Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?

From bthrew at gmail.com  Mon Jul  2 20:50:03 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:50:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <86115B69-DECA-4AD9-B800-722E7647DF30@gmail.com>

> Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so  
> painful to
> read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
> something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's  
> venom
> floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

Is it even possible to be a music writer with objectivity?  Would you  
want it even if it could happen? Imagine if there was one columnist  
out there that could tell you for certain, beyond all doubt, that you  
sucked...heavy prospect...Its not like this guy was out gathering a  
lot of empirical data with lasers and abacuses here..

So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.

But I also like REO and hate Phil Collins, so what the hell do I know?

b

--
barry threw
Media Art and Technology
http://www.barrythrew.com
me(at)barrythrew(dot)com
857-544-3967

And I know not if, save in this, such gift be allowed to man,
That out of three sounds he frame, not a fourth sound, but a star.
-Robert Browning



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 21:03:45 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:03:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <20070702.210346.1868.80.weaselw@juno.com>

> So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.

it was interesting to read such a scholarly trashing of zorn. obviously
the writer thinks zorn sucks, but this writer was one of the first to be
so measured, well-researched and vicious in his critique. that's a
particularly rare occurence and i believe that's why the article was
brought to our attention. 

like many who personally know and work with zorn, mr. slusser was quick
to defend zorn . . . fair enough. i'm not going to take any sides on this
one (not like anyone really cares what "side" i'm on or needs my opinion
about it.)
 
now playing: blue oyster cult - "ME 262"

avant garde forever,

ww

From tjohns at mills.edu  Mon Jul  2 21:35:22 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 21:35:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.204515.1868.78.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.204515.1868.78.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1183437322.4689d20a975f1@webmail.mills.edu>

wow, that was like... 6 minutes after I posted...? yowza.

nope, no bunched panties here, just an irresistible urge to push a
button or two before I conk... in DC - convinced this city has no
nightlife outside of the societal horror known as Georgetown... the
usual more experimental haunts have neglected to book anything zesty,
possibly in a fit of patriotic fervor... It's funny, you never quite
realize exactly how much of a bay area hippy you actually are until
some beltway divebar turns you away for not adhering to their dress
code... even better - a lot of the places we've gone to refused to
serve most of the artists I've been working with this week because as
non-citizens, they failed to provide a passport ala official
"identification" - I mean c'mon, barring behavior that borders on
outright intentionally moronic, one of the stupidest things you can do
when traveling internationally is take your passport out on a bender...
common sense and all that... i digress.

though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that bitches
tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further weirdness -
kind of a moot point to argue about it - sure, it's boring in
comparison to some of the more out shit floating around in the
digi-ether, but at the same time, can you imagine some tweaky little
bandgeek middleschooler getting into anything deeper ala the freespazz
idiom without having some really cool older siblings, to say the
least...? shit, I'd love to nab a polaroid of a 6th grader's facial
expression following their first listen to a Luttenbacher's disc - you
know, why argue the musical validity of the gateway when we've all been
there already... instead of waxing the mainstream nostalgic, why not
dig our spurs in, throw on our snorkels and dive deep - here's
hoping...

... haven't listened to on the corner in years, tho - totally digging
that up when I get back - thnx fr th reminder.

uhm... yeah. new topic, please.

t.


Quoting weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>:

> >I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of
> > those legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm,
> yah,
> > that solo was quite compelling . . .
>
> why? says who?
>
> furthermore saying something like "on the corner" would appeal to
> damon
> smith more than bitches brew" is not obscuritantism in the slightest.
> it
> was, like, a few albums later and, like bitches brew, can be found
> for 2
> dollars in a used vinyl bin any day of the week.
>
> you're pretty much just making a big deal out of nothing. nobody else
> here has their panties in a bunch about it. just you. chill out.
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 22:44:03 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:44:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>

> though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that 
> bitches tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further
weirdness 

i'm not convinced of this claim. please demonstrate statistics. i don't
personally know anyone other than you whose gateway to weird music was
bitches brew. you may have had that crystallized moment, which is why
you're having a minor tizzy about it.

you like it. i just think it's okay - there are a lot of electric miles
albums i like better. these are opinions. last time i checked this was a
discussion group. i'm discussing things. discussion is supposed to take
place in a discussion. if it doesn't make you happy that i don't love
bitches brew as much as you, i'm so awfully sorry. it doesn't necessarly
make me a snob or whatever you're trying to say anyone who dismisses the
album is . . . you should go after john shiurba instead because he said
he actually hates it. i was just recommending other miles davis electric
albums to damon smith. i know what his taste is and my response to him
was to enlighten him, not to make you cry. 

please don't come here and tell people what they can and can't talk
about. it's boorish and egotistical. if you find the discussion here
annoying, feel free to unsubscribe at your leisure. 

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 23:05:58 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:05:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <86115B69-DECA-4AD9-B800-722E7647DF30@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd38$3a4fb930$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of barry threw
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

> Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so  
> painful to
> read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
> something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's  
> venom
> floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

Is it even possible to be a music writer with objectivity?  Would you  
want it even if it could happen? Imagine if there was one columnist  
out there that could tell you for certain, beyond all doubt, that you  
sucked...heavy prospect...Its not like this guy was out gathering a  
lot of empirical data with lasers and abacuses here..

So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.

But I also like REO and hate Phil Collins, so what the hell do I know?

b

PG:
I'm all in favor of writers with passion who get fired up. The majority
of books on my bookshelves are filled with such writings. 

I don't tend to like reading any kind of prose where a writer has so
much contempt for his/her subject. I didn't enjoy reading this article.
There's no reason why I should enjoy reading everything, but I don't
tend to finish reading things I don't enjoy. 

When I try to write about things - music in particular - I try to find a
way to understand the composer or performer's intentions in any given
piece or performance. Otherwise, it's a matter of my personal opinion,
which can lack substance if it isn't "informed".

OK, I'm not a professional writer. But personally, I don't tend to write
about things unless I enjoy them. I don't see the point in joining the
ranks of critics who jeer things just because it isn't their cup of tea.
Why write merely to throw mud at others? 

My "aesthetic" makes for another kind of one-sided journalism; I am the
first to admit that. But there have been volumes of criticism that have
erupted from uninformed writers who are merely shooting from the hip.
The writings that come out of that particular school of journalism don't
tend to stand the test of time. They don't tend to be terribly accurate,
as far as getting down to really describing the work. I don't tend to
enjoy reading them, regardless of who or what they are criticizing.

As far as Phil Collins is concerned: who the fuck cares? I don't like
the guy today, or rather, I don't think about him, and haven't thought
about him much since I heard his first attempts at making pop records.
End of story...on this end.


From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 23:18:02 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:18:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <20070702.231803.6844.1.weaselw@juno.com>

> Why write merely to throw mud at others? 
 
i believe writers do this when they believe the subject needs to be taken
down a few notches. 

> As far as Phil Collins is concerned: who the fuck cares? I don't 
> like the guy today, or rather, I don't think about him, and haven't 
> thought about him much since I heard his first attempts at making pop 
> records. End of story...on this end.
 
he's had a few little bits here and there, but xenakis rules much harder.
i like the vibe of genesis' abacab album a little. it's got these really
creepy, slightly detuned synths all over it. it's a nice mood, especially
for a mainstream pop record. he's most certainly a total shill at this
point, but perhaps many moons ago he believed in creating art. . . ah,
innocence lost.

by the way, bitches brew is not my favorite miles davis electric album. i
just can't stop talking about it. 
 
ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 23:19:42 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:19:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <1183437322.4689d20a975f1@webmail.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <000101c7bd3a$25410740$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Travis C. Johns
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters

nope, no bunched panties here, just an irresistible urge to push a
button or two before I conk... in DC - convinced this city has no
nightlife outside of the societal horror known as Georgetown... the
usual more experimental haunts have neglected to book anything zesty,
possibly in a fit of patriotic fervor... It's funny, you never quite
realize exactly how much of a bay area hippy you actually are until
some beltway divebar turns you away for not adhering to their dress
code... even better - a lot of the places we've gone to refused to
serve most of the artists I've been working with this week because as
non-citizens, they failed to provide a passport ala official
"identification" - I mean c'mon, barring behavior that borders on
outright intentionally moronic, one of the stupidest things you can do
when traveling internationally is take your passport out on a bender...
common sense and all that... i digress.

PG:
DC is one of my least favorite destinations. Rampant racism, oppressive
heat, and that vibe that seems to permeate everywhere: "don't look at me
or I'll kill you" seems to be hanging on the faces of just about
everyone you meet on the train or subway. Scary place...

I remember playing in a nearby suburb called Lincoln Park (I think
that's what it's called). Slightly less oppressive vibe.

Travis:
though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that bitches
tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further weirdness -

PG:
I've already read Weasel's response to your post, so I will say (not
particularly in your defense - you can defend yourself...) that I agree
with you. At least a certain demographic...no, I don't have any
statistics, but I think the fact that Bitches Brew was the first "jazz"
record to go gold and reach a large "rock" audience (excuse the lame
terms here...a symptom of the industry) justifies your claim: a lot of
people that listened to rock (at that time in particular) were
introduced to Miles and "jazz" via B.B.
 
Travis:
kind of a moot point to argue about it - sure, it's boring in
comparison to some of the more out shit floating around in the
digi-ether, but at the same time, can you imagine some tweaky little
bandgeek middleschooler getting into anything deeper ala the freespazz
idiom without having some really cool older siblings, to say the
least...? shit, I'd love to nab a polaroid of a 6th grader's facial
expression following their first listen to a Luttenbacher's disc - you
know, why argue the musical validity of the gateway when we've all been
there already... instead of waxing the mainstream nostalgic, why not
dig our spurs in, throw on our snorkels and dive deep - here's
hoping...

PG:
There's hope in this statement, a hope I once subscribed to. But as
someone said recently, people seem to remember "stars" more than
"music". Miles became a bit of a rock star. That's why people remember
him. I doubt if any of those stoned out kids back in 69 really remember
what BB sounded like, although they are still likely to toss his name
out hoping the association will continue to make them hip. Obviously
this is the wrong reason why you would want people to think or remember
BB - and I think that also argues Weasel's point - if it did make him
popular, why? And did that popularity have anything to do with music, or
expanding his listeners to a wider range of sounds/styles...

I used to hold an opinion much like yours. Now I'm not so optimistic. I
wish you and your optimism a long and healthy life. It can be painful
when you lose it.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 23:24:43 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:24:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <20070702.231803.6844.1.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000501c7bd3a$d8af04d0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

> Why write merely to throw mud at others? 
 
i believe writers do this when they believe the subject needs to be
taken
down a few notches. 

PG:
Funny you should say that. The last time George Lewis was in town, we
had a discussion on this topic, and in particular, we were talking about
this list. He feels, or is certain, I should say, that journalists used
to sling mud to bring more attention to an artist.  I'm not sure if he's
still on this list, but if you are George, would you care to comment?


From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 23:32:14 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:32:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <20070702.233215.6844.3.weaselw@juno.com>

sometimes people like to grind their axes. this place is no exception. 

ww

> PG:
> Funny you should say that. The last time George Lewis was in town, 
> we had a discussion on this topic, and in particular, we were talking 
> about this list. He feels, or is certain, I should say, that
journalists 
> used to sling mud to bring more attention to an artist.  I'm not sure
if 
> he's still on this list, but if you are George, would you care to 
> comment?
 

From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Jul  2 23:54:04 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:54:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <411F9776-1B47-4528-B1F0-EDB82A9CA9D4@pixar.com>

On the way home for dinner tonight, I saw someone not
unlike myself, walking at 40th & Telegraph - black random
t-shirt and jeans, over-the-ear-headphones, striding and
intently concentrating on some inner world he was hearing.
I saw myself at the same time I saw our own ww, who now
comes to the edge of flaming poor Travis, who I was about
to contact to see where I could get the drugs he is on.

(Seriously, folks...)  To understand Bitches Brews perhaps
inflated reputation, you might have had to have been there.
Some artists will tell you context is everything.  In 1969,
when it was recorded, and 1970, when the buzz really got
out, it was sui generis - in a class by itself.  It certainly
sounds average now, perhaps even mediorcre.  Reverential
playing of same can certainly cause irritation.  Back in the
day, it was shattering, if you can believe it.

All stated opinions have been valid, given the context.
Without getting too personal, I was a senior in high school
when it came out, trying to get a handle on jazz as a
tenor saxophonist, but doing rock jams with my con-
temporaries.  Lights went on and whistles went off when
I first heard one of the last standing jazz leaders leaping
off to play in the fields of idioms.  I suppose it's not as
much about the music as the leap.

On Jul 2, 2007, at 10:44 PM, weasel walter wrote:

>> though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that
>> bitches tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further
> weirdness
>
> i'm not convinced of this claim. please demonstrate statistics. i  
> don't
> personally know anyone other than you whose gateway to weird music was
> bitches brew. you may have had that crystallized moment, which is why
> you're having a minor tizzy about it.
>
> you like it. i just think it's okay - there are a lot of electric  
> miles
> albums i like better. these are opinions. last time i checked this  
> was a
> discussion group. i'm discussing things. discussion is supposed to  
> take
> place in a discussion. if it doesn't make you happy that i don't love
> bitches brew as much as you, i'm so awfully sorry. it doesn't  
> necessarly
> make me a snob or whatever you're trying to say anyone who  
> dismisses the
> album is . . . you should go after john shiurba instead because he  
> said
> he actually hates it. i was just recommending other miles davis  
> electric
> albums to damon smith. i know what his taste is and my response to him
> was to enlighten him, not to make you cry.
>
> please don't come here and tell people what they can and can't talk
> about. it's boorish and egotistical. if you find the discussion here
> annoying, feel free to unsubscribe at your leisure.
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 00:10:42 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:10:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>

On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:52 PM, weasel walter wrote:

> m having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
> friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded  
> store .
> . . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc.  
> it's
> almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
> just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm  
> awaiting a
> response about this dilemma.
>

Mine shows up through IODA, I am just kind of ignoring it, the main  
"Artist" keeps changing.


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 00:15:23 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:15:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <411F9776-1B47-4528-B1F0-EDB82A9CA9D4@pixar.com>
References: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>
	<411F9776-1B47-4528-B1F0-EDB82A9CA9D4@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707030015q1d2b4584n60a2cc0dd54a44d1@mail.gmail.com>

Just be glad that something relatively "cool" got you turned on to
weirder music. The artist who got me turned on to listening intently
to sounds is so square by today's standards, that I'm not going to say
it on a list. You'll have to ask me in person, and not while you're
holding eggs or expired squash. (Ha! Now I know better!)

Still waiting to hear that rockin' Phil Collins!

Matt

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 00:25:46 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:25:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
	<598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707030025l6ad92e1by7b280bce8d3353ba@mail.gmail.com>

Rent got all the edgetone artists set up with Snocap on myspace. Since
then, it frequently keeps all the elements on the page from loading.
Just now I got 'em all to work, but only after pressing "refresh"
twice.

On 7/3/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:52 PM, weasel walter wrote:
>
> > m having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
> > friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded
> > store .
> > . . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc.
> > it's
> > almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
> > just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm
> > awaiting a
> > response about this dilemma.
> >
>
> Mine shows up through IODA, I am just kind of ignoring it, the main
> "Artist" keeps changing.
>
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 00:39:14 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:39:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <20070702.210346.1868.80.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.210346.1868.80.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <64E70622-0A06-44C8-88F0-506116C3AC89@balancepointacoustics.com>

Like Cage, Zorn is an easy target and people try to sum up what he  
does as one thing. He has done too much to have it be a case of  
liking or not liking his work, or specifying what his work exactly is.
Obviously he is a good musician, he has ideas, he has done more for  
other musicians than any figure in his league I can think of.
He made his mark, nothing can change it. It is just a matter of  
whether you can learn something from or otherwise enjoy his work or not.


Damon


On Jul 2, 2007, at 9:03 PM, weasel walter wrote:

>> So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.
>
> it was interesting to read such a scholarly trashing of zorn.  
> obviously
> the writer thinks zorn sucks, but this writer was one of the first  
> to be
> so measured, well-researched and vicious in his critique. that's a
> particularly rare occurence and i believe that's why the article was
> brought to our attention.
>
> like many who personally know and work with zorn, mr. slusser was  
> quick
> to defend zorn . . . fair enough. i'm not going to take any sides  
> on this
> one (not like anyone really cares what "side" i'm on or needs my  
> opinion
> about it.)
>
> now playing: blue oyster cult - "ME 262"
>
> avant garde forever,
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From bthrew at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 01:05:05 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 01:05:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <000001c7bd38$3a4fb930$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7bd38$3a4fb930$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <9B38E6B9-E958-46E9-8ECF-3DBC46EA310C@gmail.com>

> I don't tend to like reading any kind of prose where a writer has so
> much contempt for his/her subject. I didn't enjoy reading this  
> article.
> There's no reason why I should enjoy reading everything, but I don't
> tend to finish reading things I don't enjoy.

I guess this article just didn't bother me on that front as much.  I  
felt like the writer came to an honest opinion about Zorn, and it was  
just a bad one.  I also didn't feel like he dismissed him  
outright...but to me it read like he was trying to give Zorn a  
chance, but his experience of the music got crushed under the weight  
of a lot of other things, which were enumerated at length...

I'm hardly a Zorn fanatic but I do really enjoy a great deal of his  
music; this article in itself didn't change my opinion of him.  But  
were I  to follow Zorn enough to learn that some of the criticisms  
that were alleged in this article were true, then I would probably  
express some of the same frustration with his artists persona.

Perhaps I'm wrong and it was really just sensational.  In that case,  
I enjoyed the sensationalism.

> As far as Phil Collins is concerned: who the fuck cares?

Possibly Phil Collins.  But not me.

b

--
barry threw
Media Art and Technology
http://www.barrythrew.com
me(at)barrythrew(dot)com
857-544-3967

And I know not if, save in this, such gift be allowed to man,
That out of three sounds he frame, not a fourth sound, but a star.
-Robert Browning



From jzitt at metatronpress.com  Tue Jul  3 02:23:58 2007
From: jzitt at metatronpress.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:23:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <000101c7bd3a$25410740$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000101c7bd3a$25410740$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <468A15AE.6070903@metatronpress.com>

Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> 
> DC is one of my least favorite destinations. Rampant racism, oppressive
> heat, and that vibe that seems to permeate everywhere: "don't look at me
> or I'll kill you" seems to be hanging on the faces of just about
> everyone you meet on the train or subway. Scary place...

I lived there for a bout four year before coming here. Oddly, I think I 
get more of the subway face here than I ever did back east. Or maybe (as 
I suspect) it's part of the epidemic of solipsistic rudeness that's been 
growing everywhere since the start of the decade.

> I remember playing in a nearby suburb called Lincoln Park (I think
> that's what it's called). Slightly less oppressive vibe.

Probably Takoma Park. It's the Berkeley of DC.

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 02:25:31 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:25:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <C2AF641B.1E511%21grand@21grand.org>

Phillip pondered:
PG:
I don't tend to like reading any kind of prose where a writer has so
much contempt for his/her subject. I didn't enjoy reading this article.
There's no reason why I should enjoy reading everything, but I don't
tend to finish reading things I don't enjoy.

- to me it seemed like the author was content to focus mainly on Zorn's
persona - hence dwelling on the camo pants as well as the easiest targets of
his work (i.e. the Radical Jewish Culture series and it's arbitary
definition of Jewishness). He didn't really make much of an attempt to
examine Zorn's music on the terms that Zorn sets forth, or in the context of
his peers.  

- Yeah, the contempt is really obvious, which to me, lessens the force of
the author's arguments. The most effective method, I've noted, is to let the
subject hang himself, metaphorically speaking.

PG:
OK, I'm not a professional writer. But personally, I don't tend to write
about things unless I enjoy them. I don't see the point in joining the
ranks of critics who jeer things just because it isn't their cup of tea.
Why write merely to throw mud at others?

- Well, uh, speaking as someone who has written harshly about art I didn't
enjoy and made said writing public ... I tend not to write about art I
dislike that just "isn't my cup of tea." There are things I dislike because
I find the genre/medium boring, conventional, things that just are at odds
w/my personal aesthetic/sensibility, things that are mediocre made by
someone or shown somewhere I'd expect no more from. I don't write about
these things. I'm not going to write a scathing review of sloppy collages
shown at a caf?. I'm not going to write a negative review of an installation
that has whimsical birdies on model tree branches that's really just too
cutesy and fey for my tastes.  I'm not going to write a negative review
about derivative ab-ex painting - mainly because I'm not that interested in
painting to begin with, and as a piece of writing, what would that really
contribute to any discussion or give the reader something interesting to
think about. Yep, people are still imitating ab-ex painters from the 40s and
50s ... most of the current stuff sucks. It's kinda like dissing Phil
Collins' mid-80s output here.

- However, thinking about my rationale for writing and publishing harsh
critiques, I decided the following:
- My primary impetus to do so is based on the work failing or being
deceptive on its own terms, the terms themselves, or the goals the work has
set for itself, or the ideas it's trying to explore are things that interest
me.
- In order for the critique to be fair (and relevant), I need to look at it
in the context it set for itself, its intent, similar work/projects in the
same genre, etc. I won't write about something I don't know enough about.
- and some of it is about taking something down a notch ... I might not have
written one of the harsh show reviews I did if it had been at some
artist-run gallery or warehouse, but because it was Yerba Buena, I felt
better about it.

sl


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 06:42:31 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 06:42:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707030025l6ad92e1by7b280bce8d3353ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
	<598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<c70e517b0707030025l6ad92e1by7b280bce8d3353ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707030642o107cd117l365327aaca109b7f@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't had any SNOCAP problems.  It loaded fine just now and
it looks like all the tracks are there.  Mine is through CD Baby.

P.

On 7/3/07, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Rent got all the edgetone artists set up with Snocap on myspace. Since
> then, it frequently keeps all the elements on the page from loading.
> Just now I got 'em all to work, but only after pressing "refresh"
> twice.
>
> On 7/3/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:52 PM, weasel walter wrote:
> >
> > > m having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
> > > friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded
> > > store .
> > > . . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc.
> > > it's
> > > almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
> > > just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm
> > > awaiting a
> > > response about this dilemma.
> > >
> >
> > Mine shows up through IODA, I am just kind of ignoring it, the main
> > "Artist" keeps changing.
> >
> >
> > Damon Smith
> >
> > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> > http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 09:49:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:49:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] DeeCee
In-Reply-To: <468A15AE.6070903@metatronpress.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd92$14f78870$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Joseph Zitt
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters

I lived there for a bout four year before coming here. Oddly, I think I 
get more of the subway face here than I ever did back east. Or maybe (as

I suspect) it's part of the epidemic of solipsistic rudeness that's been

growing everywhere since the start of the decade.

PG:
To be fair to the place, I was only there twice, and both times I was
there about 3-4 days - hardly enough to "know" a place. In addition, it
was summer and beastly hot - it's possible the "vibe" was more
influenced by real physical suffering than attitude. Nonetheless, I
displayed my "Hey, I'm here, what's going on?" attitude, which was met
with, "go away, I'm busy scowling...and sweating."

JZ:
Probably Takoma Park. It's the Berkeley of DC.
 
PG:
Yeah, that's the place! - Very aptly put (Berkeley)...I played in a
place that doubles as a meditation center - the d?cor was strictly
Berkeley. I felt at home for a minute. On the continuing saga of being
fair, it was really quite nice - I mean, there were trees everywhere,
the houses weren't too close together, but still: the heat and the
mosquitoes! Damn, I thought I was back in St. Petersburg! - What is it
about building capitals on swamps?!?!?!

My other gig there was at a "jazz" club, playing solo Monk. I was
treated as somewhat of an oddity...solo saxophone seemed really foreign
to the audience. Again, it's just my quick-time observation, but I got
the impression that the jazz audience there is pretty conservative.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 10:07:59 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:07:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <C2AF641B.1E511%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd94$b5caba40$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

- Well, uh, speaking as someone who has written harshly about art I
didn't
enjoy and made said writing public ... I tend not to write about art I
dislike that just "isn't my cup of tea." There are things I dislike
because
I find the genre/medium boring, conventional, things that just are at
odds
w/my personal aesthetic/sensibility, things that are mediocre made by
someone or shown somewhere I'd expect no more from. I don't write about
these things. I'm not going to write a scathing review of sloppy
collages
shown at a caf?. I'm not going to write a negative review of an
installation
that has whimsical birdies on model tree branches that's really just too
cutesy and fey for my tastes.  I'm not going to write a negative review
about derivative ab-ex painting - mainly because I'm not that interested
in
painting to begin with, and as a piece of writing, what would that
really
contribute to any discussion or give the reader something interesting to
think about. Yep, people are still imitating ab-ex painters from the 40s
and
50s ... most of the current stuff sucks. It's kinda like dissing Phil
Collins' mid-80s output here.

PG:
Thanks for expanding on my point - this is a more complete statement on
my previous thoughts on the subject. Most of my critical writing has
been on film - and as you all know, there is just so much bad
film-making out there...it's too easy to say what isn't good - it seems
harder to find things that have some value. So I tend to write about
films that take us to new places, or films that have something valuable
to say, regardless of how it's said or expressed visually.

On that subject, there are some new Criterion releases coming out that
are really outstanding: hordes of classic 60's Japanese cinema and a
fairly new Ozu box-set; Tarkovsky's first effort from 1962, which is
really one of my all-time favorites (My Name is Ivan - or as it is
sometimes called Ivan's Childhood); Chris Marker's La Jetee and Sans
Soleil; Melville's Army of Shadows, along with Les Enfants Terribles -
his collaboration with Jean Cocteau; two Jarmusch releases; and GW
Pabst's outstanding Three Penny Opera. Since this is a music list, I
won't bother saying why these films RULE, just that they are worth
checking out.

More info here:
http://www.criterion.com/asp/new_releases.asp

Sarah
- However, thinking about my rationale for writing and publishing harsh
critiques, I decided the following:
- My primary impetus to do so is based on the work failing or being
deceptive on its own terms, the terms themselves, or the goals the work
has
set for itself, or the ideas it's trying to explore are things that
interest
me.
- In order for the critique to be fair (and relevant), I need to look at
it
in the context it set for itself, its intent, similar work/projects in
the
same genre, etc. I won't write about something I don't know enough
about.
- and some of it is about taking something down a notch ... I might not
have
written one of the harsh show reviews I did if it had been at some
artist-run gallery or warehouse, but because it was Yerba Buena, I felt
better about it.

PG:
Fair enough - those are fine critical guidelines to follow. 

Anyone been down to LA to see the Flavin retrospective? I enjoyed seeing
those pieces nicely displayed, although so much of LACMA's permanent
collection is out of reach at the moment (they're doing big-time
renovations), it may not be worth your while - there isn't much to see
these days there other than the Flavin.


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 11:07:54 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:07:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <C2AFDE8A.1E553%21grand@21grand.org>

Travis called out the scum, the filth:
that's almost as bad as listening to some 18 year old "heepster" recite
the age old dribble of "yah, I like totally dig the beach boys, like,
waaay more than the beatles..." or for that matter, listening to the
umpteenth umpteen year old at the il corral vehemently exclaim "you
know, like, noise is the new punk...!"

- maybe it's my age, but these are not things I hear very often, if at all
... partly due to the fact that il corral is not in the Bay Area.

 then express the desire for a real rain to wash all the scum off the
streets:
but I'm sure we can find better
convopaths to follow other than "hands up if you like bitches... ok,
now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

- what the hell is a "convopath"? Is it some 2012 new age Mayan calendar
thing?

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 11:24:48 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:24:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070703.112448.6844.9.weaselw@juno.com>

> but I'm sure we can find better convopaths to follow other than "hands
up if you like bitches... 
> ok, now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

. . . or, like, go ahead and start a fuckin' topic instead of popping in
at random like a complete troll and complaining about someone elses'. 

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 11:50:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:50:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.112448.6844.9.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000701c7bda2$fc2c9400$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
 
. . . or, like, go ahead and start a fuckin' topic instead of popping in
at random like a complete troll and complaining about someone elses'. 

ww

PG:
Damn, one day you're saying no one should care what other people think,
the next minute you're telling Travis how to behave on BANEWMUS...that's
quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.

It's a DISCUSSION LIST, kiddies - there really shouldn't be a precedent
on how we're supposed to behave here. (sausage notwithstanding...)


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 11:56:15 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:56:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <000701c7bda2$fc2c9400$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000701c7bda2$fc2c9400$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <BF132BD3-2A99-42B4-AB3D-F1F8EA32C9E2@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> ...that's
> quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.

- Just like his drumming, balls-out, over-the-top one day, quietly  
rattling around a triangle on his snare the next. You never know what  
he will do...

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 11:58:12 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:58:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech
Message-ID: <C2AFEA54.1E55C%21grand@21grand.org>

PG:
Damn, one day you're saying no one should care what other people think,
the next minute you're telling Travis how to behave on BANEWMUS...that's
quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.

It's a DISCUSSION LIST, kiddies - there really shouldn't be a precedent
on how we're supposed to behave here. (sausage notwithstanding...)

- I dunno, from what I read, Travis was complaining about the topic of
denigrating Bitches Brew and Mr. Walter was merely suggesting he start a
topic more to his liking, though perhaps a bit brusquely ... perhaps he
should see an osteopath.

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:07:17 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:07:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.120724.6844.13.weaselw@juno.com>

yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!

ww
 
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:50:10 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of weasel walter
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
>  
> . . . or, like, go ahead and start a fuckin' topic instead of 
> popping in
> at random like a complete troll and complaining about someone 
> elses'. 
> 
> ww
> 
> PG:
> Damn, one day you're saying no one should care what other people 
> think,
> the next minute you're telling Travis how to behave on 
> BANEWMUS...that's
> quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.
> 
> It's a DISCUSSION LIST, kiddies - there really shouldn't be a 
> precedent
> on how we're supposed to behave here. (sausage notwithstanding...)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 

From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:13:37 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:13:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] IT"S ON!!!!
Message-ID: <20070703.121338.6844.14.weaselw@juno.com>

 BEGIN THE SAUSAGE
WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 12:16:45 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  IT"S ON!!!!
Message-ID: <C2AFEEAD.1E564%21grand@21grand.org>

- Weasel, did you want to have lunch this afternoon?

sl


 BEGIN THE SAUSAGE
WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:29:37 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:29:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] IT"S ON!!!!
Message-ID: <20070703.122937.6844.16.weaselw@juno.com>

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

w
 
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:45 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
writes:
> - Weasel, did you want to have lunch this afternoon?
> 
> sl
> 
> 
>  BEGIN THE SAUSAGE
> WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 12:28:58 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:28:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish
Message-ID: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>

Has anyone eaten at S&S Seafood on Telegraph (near 49th)...that place always
smells really good whenever I walk by?

sl


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 12:31:42 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:31:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.120724.6844.13.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <006501c7bda8$c9693860$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:07 PM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!

ww
 
PG:
I love you.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 12:34:04 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:34:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish
In-Reply-To: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <007101c7bda9$1deb96d0$4001a8c0@PG>

They have a place downtown too where I had some fish and chips - not
bad...
PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:29 PM
To: Banewmus List
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish

Has anyone eaten at S&S Seafood on Telegraph (near 49th)...that place
always
smells really good whenever I walk by?

sl

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 12:39:12 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:39:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish
In-Reply-To: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <005FE425-E19E-4789-AC49-FCF2103B7E3A@balancepointacoustics.com>

It is very solid. Good Oyster burger.
On Jul 3, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:

> Has anyone eaten at S&S Seafood on Telegraph (near 49th)...that  
> place always
> smells really good whenever I walk by?
>
> sl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:46:06 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:46:06 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.124607.6844.23.weaselw@juno.com>

dammit! now i am crying because . . . love is my weakness.

ww
 
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:31:42 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of weasel walter
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech
> 
> yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!
> 
> ww
>  
> PG:
> I love you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 12:44:15 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.124607.6844.23.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <007601c7bdaa$8a1aa340$4001a8c0@PG>

You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
When are we going to play music again?

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of weasel walter
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:46 PM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

dammit! now i am crying because . . . love is my weakness.

ww
 
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:31:42 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of weasel walter
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech
> 
> yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!
> 
> ww
>  
> PG:
> I love you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 13:01:08 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:01:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>

we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
sausage. 

after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
all of our "issues" on stage!

ww 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> When are we going to play music again?

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 13:01:47 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:01:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707031301n69cc67b0t93bb0aedbd412f75@mail.gmail.com>

Sausages are best utilized in performance as solid rocket fuel a la Mythbusters.
P.

On 7/3/07, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
> we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
> sausage.
>
> after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
> all of our "issues" on stage!
>
> ww
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
> <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> > You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> > When are we going to play music again?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 13:04:58 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031301n69cc67b0t93bb0aedbd412f75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <479209.63379.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Sausages are best utilized in performance as solid
> rocket fuel a la Mythbusters.

That was Salami. If you don't know your meats, how can
you have any pudding?

lance




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 13:09:23 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:09:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <479209.63379.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <2eb068d40707031301n69cc67b0t93bb0aedbd412f75@mail.gmail.com>
	<479209.63379.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707031309i3af705d3l2a866c74b70e7688@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/3/07, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:

> That was Salami. If you don't know your meats, how can
> you have any pudding?
>

Salami counts as sausage!
And it delivers 218 pounds of thrust!
Not sure how many in the new music community can make that claim...

P.
-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 13:17:32 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:17:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c7bdaf$307ccc00$4001a8c0@PG>

Do you have a contralto sausage?
I've never seen one.
What color is it?
Is it in Eb?

I tend to like Bb...so there's an issue right off the bat we're going to
have to deal with.

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of weasel walter
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:01 PM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
sausage. 

after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
all of our "issues" on stage!

ww 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> When are we going to play music again?
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 13:20:14 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:20:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031309i3af705d3l2a866c74b70e7688@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008001c7bdaf$90b9f160$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

Salami counts as sausage!
And it delivers 218 pounds of thrust!
Not sure how many in the new music community can make that claim...

P.
-- 
PG:
I think she's got you Lance - salami counts as sausage.

Not sure how you're measuring the thrust of salami though...I'd like to
see the machinery that measures such velocity.


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 13:21:59 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:21:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <008001c7bdaf$90b9f160$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <2eb068d40707031309i3af705d3l2a866c74b70e7688@mail.gmail.com>
	<008001c7bdaf$90b9f160$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707031321v72b1fffbr974729ed4ee8efb6@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/3/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
> PG:
> I think she's got you Lance - salami counts as sausage.
>
> Not sure how you're measuring the thrust of salami though...I'd like to
> see the machinery that measures such velocity.

The salami rocket was attached to a force gauge which measured the
thrust delivered upon liftoff.

But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about the salami rocket?
I thought he didn't watch TV...:)

P.


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 13:31:15 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031321v72b1fffbr974729ed4ee8efb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <811807.46591.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about
> the salami rocket?
> I thought he didn't watch TV...:)

Only Simpsons, Mythbusters and about a dozen movies a
week. really need to cut it out. i'll never make music
again. this week is going to be all Antonioni.

...and i don't want to imagine all those wasted hours
on youtube (but usually at work, so it is a positive
waste of my time)...

cheers

lance



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz 

From amar at ptank.com  Tue Jul  3 13:57:32 2007
From: amar at ptank.com (Amar)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <811807.46591.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <811807.46591.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50216.198.95.32.195.1183496252.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>

Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La Notte and L'avventura?


>> But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about
>> the salami rocket?
>> I thought he didn't watch TV...:)
>
> Only Simpsons, Mythbusters and about a dozen movies a
> week. really need to cut it out. i'll never make music
> again. this week is going to be all Antonioni.
>
> ...and i don't want to imagine all those wasted hours
> on youtube (but usually at work, so it is a positive
> waste of my time)...
>
> cheers
>
> lance
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Got a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 14:03:55 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:03:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <50216.198.95.32.195.1183496252.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>
Message-ID: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La
> Notte and L'avventura?

not as familiar with Antonioni as I should be, which
is why I'm checking them out this week. and to return
to the topic of music, I'm especially interested in
the work of Vittorio Gelmetti on the soundtracks to
his films. 

...and there is ALWAYS morricone.

anybody looking for all your groovy (library and film)
music needs should check out
http://www.moviegrooves.com/ . Where else are you
going to find the soundtracks to Nekromantic or a disc
with the re-recorded cues from the Andrei Tarkovsky
movies "Solaris" (1972), "Stalker" (1979) and "The
Mirror" (1974). a unique resource.

now back to the work!

cheers

lance




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From bradysharp at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 14:13:57 2007
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:13:57 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] uh... beach
Message-ID: <a7177e350707031413y756a34c4m44136aeba20a65a8@mail.gmail.com>

The thread was just getting too long for me. I had to beak it up!

Brady

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul  3 14:30:42 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:30:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <89a92a537242dab32d8adbdc17d115ac@matthewgoodheart.com>

After being obsessed with Stalker a couple weeks ago (watched it 3  
times in one week), I got interested in hunting down Artemiev's "12  
Looks at the World of Sound," and found it on an interesting  
compilation of ANS synthesizer works from Soviet Union, 1964-197. I'm  
sure a bunch of folks here know this CD- also includes pieces by  
Gubaidulina and Schnittke. Anyway, historically interesting at least.

On the film side- just finished watching Svankmajer's 2005 film  
"Lunacy." Worth watching, as all his films are, but wondering if, in  
the end, it's just a bit simplistic. On the other hand, maybe that's  
his point, as he says at the beginning of the film: "Today, art is all  
but dead anyway," and that all that is left is "a kind of trailer for  
the reflection of the face of Narcissus."
Hmmm.

Be curious as to others reactions to either work. . .

mg

On Jul 3, 2007, at 2:03 PM, Praemedia wrote:

>> Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La
>> Notte and L'avventura?
>
> not as familiar with Antonioni as I should be, which
> is why I'm checking them out this week. and to return
> to the topic of music, I'm especially interested in
> the work of Vittorio Gelmetti on the soundtracks to
> his films.
>
> ...and there is ALWAYS morricone.
>
> anybody looking for all your groovy (library and film)
> music needs should check out
> http://www.moviegrooves.com/ . Where else are you
> going to find the soundtracks to Nekromantic or a disc
> with the re-recorded cues from the Andrei Tarkovsky
> movies "Solaris" (1972), "Stalker" (1979) and "The
> Mirror" (1974). a unique resource.
>
> now back to the work!
>
> cheers
>
> lance
>
>
>
>
>        
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel  
> today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>


From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 14:32:55 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] lunacy
In-Reply-To: <89a92a537242dab32d8adbdc17d115ac@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <708915.32596.qm@web51610.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> the end, it's just a bit simplistic. On the other
> hand, maybe that's  
> his point, as he says at the beginning of the film:
> "Today, art is all  
> but dead anyway," and that all that is left is "a
> kind of trailer for  
> the reflection of the face of Narcissus."
> Hmmm.
> 
> Be curious as to others reactions to either work. .

I have not seen that one yet, but this is the first
film he has made since his wife passed away. she
helped produce all of his films and her death is a big
emotional blow to him as well. He stopped appearing
publicly and has refused all interviews since her
death.

lance



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz 

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 14:36:53 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:36:53 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031321v72b1fffbr974729ed4ee8efb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201c7bdba$45e68350$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:22 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

The salami rocket was attached to a force gauge which measured the
thrust delivered upon liftoff.
 
PG:
Salami rocket? - Wow, you've got me there.
 
PM:
But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about the salami rocket?
I thought he didn't watch TV...:)

PG:
Lance knows all and see all...he doesn't need a TV. 


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 14:52:08 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:52:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <50216.198.95.32.195.1183496252.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bdbc$67c82620$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Amar
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:58 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La Notte and L'avventura?

PG:
I'm not Lance (I know, there goes Greenlief - always stating the
obvious), but L'Eclisse is one of my favorites, and it is the final
installment of the "informal trilogy", that includes the two wonderful
films you mentioned above. The opening sequence, which goes on for about
7 minutes with no dialogue whatsoever, is absolutely brilliant.

Deserto Rosso (Red Desert) is an unusual film that most of his fans
like. It pits Monica Vitti against Richard Harris - a rather unlikely
pair - but it has all the mystique and atmosphere that the trilogy
boasts (albeit quietly).

I'm not a big fan of Blow Up, although it may be one of the more popular
films. David Hemmings kind of ruins it with his over the top ego in that
one.

I'm a big fan of The Passenger, which was recently re-released in its
original format (without the edits made by the American distributors
when it was first released). That's a fine film and probably one of the
great Nicholson performances (he's working way outside his schtick in
that film).

Among the earlier films (before the trilogy, which was really the
hallmark of his style and thematic concerns), I like Il Grido a LOT. I
also recently caught The Girlfriends (Le Amiche) at PFA, and found it to
be a really good neo-realist effort, with touches of his later thematic
concerns (the emptiness of the new rich and the inability to maintain
meaningful relationships) and his visual style.
 
I've never seen "Identification of a Woman", but I've read good things
about it - I can never find it at the video store.

If anyone knows where to find his "Superstition" (1949) or I Vinti (The
Vanquished - 1953), let me know. I've been looking for those films for
years.
 
To connect this discussion to music, and to roast a bit of sausage in
the act, Citta di Vitti (my trio with Mezzacappa and Levis) will be
playing tomorrow at Revolution Caf? in SF - the music I composed for
that group is all inspired by Antonioni's trilogy and his film Red
Desert. We play from 5 - 8 pm.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 14:54:28 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:54:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000101c7bdbc$bae99500$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Praemedia
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon

> Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La
> Notte and L'avventura?

not as familiar with Antonioni as I should be, which
is why I'm checking them out this week. and to return
to the topic of music, I'm especially interested in
the work of Vittorio Gelmetti on the soundtracks to
his films. 
 
PG:
Actually, Giovanni Fusco wrote the music for the films in the trilogy I
mentioned in my last missive. But the Gelmetti soundtracks are also
tasty. Antonioni uses music in film as it should be used: really
sparingly.

Lance:
...and there is ALWAYS morricone.

PG:
Right! - And that totally shoots my previous comment - here's a guy that
knew how to invade the screen with the greatest music!


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:00:06 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:00:06 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <89a92a537242dab32d8adbdc17d115ac@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <000201c7bdbd$84412940$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matthew Goodheart
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon

After being obsessed with Stalker a couple weeks ago (watched it 3  
times in one week), I got interested in hunting down Artemiev's "12  
Looks at the World of Sound," and found it on an interesting  
compilation of ANS synthesizer works from Soviet Union, 1964-197. I'm  
sure a bunch of folks here know this CD- also includes pieces by  
Gubaidulina and Schnittke. Anyway, historically interesting at least.

PG:
HUGE fan of Stalker, don't know the recordings you're talking about.
I'll look for them. AND, I have to remember to bring Natasha Synessios'
essay on The Mirror for you next time I go to EBCFPA...it's really good.

MG:
On the film side- just finished watching Svankmajer's 2005 film  
"Lunacy." Worth watching, as all his films are, but wondering if, in  
the end, it's just a bit simplistic. On the other hand, maybe that's  
his point, as he says at the beginning of the film: "Today, art is all  
but dead anyway," and that all that is left is "a kind of trailer for  
the reflection of the face of Narcissus."
Hmmm.

PG:
Interesting sentiment...

Where did you find that? I remember seeing posters for it at the
Piedmont theater a few years ago, but then I never saw it arrive in the
theaters. Is it out now on DVD? I'm a fan of his work - especially
"Alice" and "Faust". The short films are cool too - totally innovative
and unique - but I like to see him work out on a longer narrative, which
is why I was so excited about Lunacy...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:09:49 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:09:49 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Boots Randolf
In-Reply-To: <000001c7bdbc$67c82620$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <001201c7bdbe$e0970ce0$4001a8c0@PG>

Not new music, but Boots was hella cool...
PG


Sax player Boots Randolph dead at 80

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Boots Randolph, whose spirited saxophone
playing on songs like "Yakety Sax" made him one of Nashville's top
musicians, died Tuesday. He was 80. Randolph suffered a cerebral
hemorrhage June 25 and had been hospitalized in a coma. He was taken off
a respirator earlier Tuesday, said Betty Hofer, a publicist and
spokeswoman for the family. Randolph played regularly in Nashville
nightclubs for 30 years, becoming a tourist draw for the city much like
Wayne Newton in Las Vegas and Pete Fountain in New Orleans. He recorded
more than 40 albums and spent 15 years touring with the Festival of
Music, teaming with fellow instrumentalists Chet Atkins and Floyd
Cramer. As a session musician, he played on Elvis Presley's "Return to
Sender," Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman," Brenda Lee's "Rockin' Round
the Christmas Tree" and "I'm Sorry," REO Speedwagon's "Little Queenie,"
Al Hirt's "Java" and other songs including ones by Buddy Holly and
Johnny Cash. In 1963 he had his biggest solo hit, "Yakety Sax," which he
wrote.

His final recording was on the Zoho label

Boots Randolph A Whole New Ballgame Zoho Music 200706 Street Date: June
12, 2007 Boots Randolph tenor sax, Roddy Smith guitars, Steve Willets
piano, Tim Smith bass, Ray Von Rotz drums & percussion, Jason Webb -
keyboard strings, Mark Stallings - Hammond B 3

http://www.zohomusic.com/

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com




From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul  3 15:13:12 2007
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:13:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
References: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c7bdbf$58e40450$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

Isn't there a local group called Bitches Brew? Ezra Gale, Slusser on 
electronics + others? D.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "weasel walter" <weaselw at juno.com>
To: <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Cc: <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech


> we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
> sausage.
>
> after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
> all of our "issues" on stage!
>
> ww
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
> <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
>> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
>> When are we going to play music again?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date: 7/3/2007 
> 10:02 AM
>
> 


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:15:37 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:15:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech's brew
In-Reply-To: <007c01c7bdbf$58e40450$6501a8c0@eyefull01>
Message-ID: <001701c7bdbf$af47ccf0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of dmichalak
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

Isn't there a local group called Bitches Brew? Ezra Gale, Slusser on 
electronics + others? D.

PG:
There is. I'm on Ezra's mailing list - and I see the gig notices. But I
haven't seen one for a while. Are you still in operation Mr. Slusser?


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul  3 15:25:45 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:25:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <000201c7bdbd$84412940$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000201c7bdbd$84412940$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <4440c094d79cb395a87d15a4357c5eee@matthewgoodheart.com>

>
> PG:
> HUGE fan of Stalker, don't know the recordings you're talking about.
> I'll look for them.

It's from these folks. 
http://www.electroshock.ru/eng/records/disk/vol_4ans/index.html
Check out their whole discography, pretty cool.
>

> Where did you find that? (Lunacy)  Is it out now on DVD?

I rented it from 5 Star Video on Solano. They've got a decent 
selection, and it's right down the hill from me, though they didn't 
have any Bela Tarr when I asked about it.  Reel Video also has a copy. 
There's a 2 dvd set of collected short, and also a newer release of 
some shorts called "The Ossuary." It's amazing, 5 years ago I had to 
hunt everywhere to find even an old vhs copy of his stuff, or pray that 
animation festivals might show something by him, now you can get it 
all. . .

> "Alice" and "Faust". The short films are cool too - totally innovative
> and unique - but I like to see him work out on a longer narrative, 
> which
> is why I was so excited about Lunacy...

According to Wikipedia, he's putting out another one next year called 
"Surviving Life (Theory and Practice)."

His shorts are still my favorite, except possibly for "Alice." But 
after watching "Dimensions of the Dialogue" I kind of felt. . . what 
the hell else is there to say?

mg



From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:44:47 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:44:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <4440c094d79cb395a87d15a4357c5eee@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <002701c7bdc3$c2949be0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matthew Goodheart
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon

It's from these folks. 
http://www.electroshock.ru/eng/records/disk/vol_4ans/index.html
Check out their whole discography, pretty cool.

PG:
Thanks!

MG:
I rented it from 5 Star Video on Solano. They've got a decent 
selection, and it's right down the hill from me, though they didn't 
have any Bela Tarr when I asked about it.  Reel Video also has a copy. 
There's a 2 dvd set of collected short, and also a newer release of 
some shorts called "The Ossuary." It's amazing, 5 years ago I had to 
hunt everywhere to find even an old vhs copy of his stuff, or pray that 
animation festivals might show something by him, now you can get it 
all. . .

PG:
Global Video on Telegraph and 51st has a few Bela Tarr films...if you're
interested.
 
MG:
According to Wikipedia, he's putting out another one next year called 
"Surviving Life (Theory and Practice)."

His shorts are still my favorite, except possibly for "Alice." But 
after watching "Dimensions of the Dialogue" I kind of felt. . . what 
the hell else is there to say?

PG:
Good question.


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 16:25:57 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:25:57 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech
Message-ID: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>

- You could call it the convopath to enlightenment!

sl

Mr. Walter wrote:
we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
sausage. 

after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
all of our "issues" on stage!

ww 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> When are we going to play music again?


From tjohns at mills.edu  Tue Jul  3 17:24:38 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Tue,  3 Jul 2007 17:24:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>

... i think i should start charging y'all for the use of my own
particbrand of newspeak...

but as per request, what the hell is a convopath? erm... uhm... a.. path
of conversation?

heh - it's funny - you spend a good 10 or so hours doing electrical
gruntwork in a gallery on the opposite side of the country, head back
to the place yr crashing at, flip on the iNet and boom - bombardment on
all fronts from muchomany musicfolks looking for some sort of
particulate/philosophical matter in nearly every snarked out comment I
uttered last night - I mean, not to say that I'm not flattered and all,
but there's definitely a lot of hot topics that I'd like to clear up - 
just to set the record straight on what it is I said, inferred
surmised, complained about, etc etc etc - perhaps even under my very
own subject header, provided such an act would please the almighty
weasel, et al.

... but I'll do that at my own time - zonked out, exhausted and in dire
need of food before I collapse - stay tuned, kids.

HOWEVER, if you don't mind me throwing something entirely crazy out
there, allow me to make the following proposal:

Can we all, pretyplease, possiblymaybe agree that if discussions devolve
into snippy one liners aimed at attacking the integrity of one of the
other posters instead of actually furthering the discussion along in
any way, shape or form, can we instead resolve to take such comments
off list and spare the rest of the community the subsequent pissing
match, etc?

Just thought I'd throw that one out there - here's hoping...

... god, I really am becoming a fucking hippy, arent i...



Quoting Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>:

> - You could call it the convopath to enlightenment!
>
> sl
>
> Mr. Walter wrote:
> we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
> sausage.
>
> after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort
> out
> all of our "issues" on stage!
>
> ww
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
> <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> > You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> > When are we going to play music again?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 17:33:21 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:33:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech
Message-ID: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@21grand.org>

Travis suggested the convopath less travelled:
can we instead resolve to take such comments
off list and spare the rest of the community the subsequent pissing
match, etc?

- you cur, how dare you deny me the joys of banewmus pissing matches! I live
for them ... well ok, I also enjoy showers, fish and chips, and fruity girly
cocktails.  Are you some kind of scientologist?

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 17:39:11 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:39:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.173913.6844.30.weaselw@juno.com>

 > Can we all, pretyplease, possiblymaybe agree that if discussions 
> devolve into snippy one liners aimed at attacking the integrity of one
of 
> the other posters instead of actually furthering the discussion along 
> in any way, shape or form, can we instead resolve to take such 
> comments off list and spare the rest of the community the subsequent
pissing
> match, etc?

no.

ww

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 17:56:17 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:56:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>
References: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
	<1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <0F15EA9F-0B11-4DFD-9D06-5145B05A6A00@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Travis C. Johns wrote:

> ... god, I really am becoming a fucking hippy, arent i...

- That would explain the love Bitches Brew.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 19:34:35 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:34:35 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Breakthrough in Grey Room playlist: 2007 Jun 13
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707031934x35374522u4418c019d854fd2f@mail.gmail.com>

This week's show is tonight, 11:59pm-3am (Tue. night/Wed. morning).
90.3 FM San Francisco
or online: http://heule.us/breakthrough/ (click "Online Broadcast")


Playlist from the last show:

2007 June 13

Peter Br?tzmann Sextet, "Fiddle-Faddle," More Nipples (1969) [Atavistic, 2003]
John Butcher & Gino Robair, "Fid," New Oakland Burr [Rastascan, 2004]
Weasel Walter, "Lobotomy While You Wait," Early Recordings 1988-91
[Savage Land, 2007]
[background music] Weasel Walter, "The Stomp," Early Recordings
1988-91 [Savage Land, 2007]

Crank Sturgeon, "gilituz-n-gha," Novasak/Crank Sturgeon [Swamp of Pus, 2007]
Coil, "Solar Lodge," Scatology [Some Bizzare, 1984]
Plotkin/Wyskida, #4, Live WFMU March 24 2007 [self-released, 2007]

Glenn Branca, "Indeterminate Activity of Resultant Masses (1981),"
Indeterminate Activity of Resultant Masses [Atavistic, 2007]
Dielectric Field Recording All Stars, "The Ultimate Sacrifice," "Penal
Code Section 409," & "There.," RE:record [Dielectric, 2007]
Mindflayer, "Netherworld Bike Patrol C.H.A.O.S.," Expedition to the
Harrier Peaks [Corleone, 2007]

Loachfillet, "Finger Basket Disposal," Cut Throat Rogues [Fish Pies, 2006]
Wolf Eyes, "Human Animal," Human Animal [Sub Pop, 2006]
Can't "Homesick," various - Zum Audio Vol. III [Zum, 2006]
16 Bitch Pile-up, "He began to stir," Bury Me Deep [Troniks, 2007]

BBC Symphony Orchetra, "Cosi Fan Tutte - Overture (Mozart)" [RCA Victor]
Christian Weber, "Camping Light Night," 3 Suits and a Violin [Hatology, 2007]
Gowns, "Mercy Springs," Red State [Cardboard, 2007]
Sword Heaven, "Intro - Tongues," Live at Little Brothers [Cut
Hands/Little Miracles, 2007]

Core of the Coalman, "New Conifers," Spirograph/End Grain [self-released, 2006]
Beck, "I Get Lonesome," One Foot in the Grave [K, 1994]
Aaron Siegel, #1-6, The Cabinet [Longbox, 2006]
Bob Ostertag, #1-2, Like a Melody, No Bitterness [My Very Own Record
Label, 1997]

KK Null, "0957," Fertile [Touch, 2007]
Oaxacan, "Tulum," various - Crows of the Worls vol. 1 [Last Visible Dog, 2007]
Steuart Liebig/Minim, "The Cherry Blossom Is Only Perfect When It's
Falling from the Tree," Sulphur [pfMentum, 2007]
Partisan, "Line of Flight," Line Of Flight/Panopticon Cassingle [Sanitary, 2006]
Johann Johannsson, "Tu non mi perderai mai," various - Touch 25 [Touch, 2006]

Yi Chuhwan, Kim Wolha & NCKTPA, "Kagok T'aep'yongga - Song of Great
Peace," various - Traditional Korean Music [Buda, 1997]
Burzum, "Dunkelheit," Filosofem [Misanthropy, 1995]
Douglas Lilburn, "Three Inscapes (#3)," Electro-acoustic Works [Atoll, 2004]

Graveland, "The Gates to the Kingdom of Darkness," The Celtic Winter
[No Colors, 1996]
Ozzy Osbourne, "Mr. Crowley," Blizzard of Ozz [Jet, 1980]
John Wiese, #11-32, Magical Crystal Blah volume 3 [Helicopter, 2006]
Brad Fiedel, "Reese Chased," THe Terminator Soundtrack [1984]


(please contact me if you have corrections to the listed information)

http://heule.us/breakthrough/

From tjohns at mills.edu  Tue Jul  3 21:42:25 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Tue,  3 Jul 2007 21:42:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <0F15EA9F-0B11-4DFD-9D06-5145B05A6A00@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
	<1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>
	<0F15EA9F-0B11-4DFD-9D06-5145B05A6A00@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <1183524145.468b253127109@webmail.mills.edu>

Well, technically speaking, I never actually said that I "heart"
bitches... or at least in the context where bitches is implied to mean
a certain fusion-esque album circa 1970. what i said was that it had a
lasting impression on me back in the wayback. a slight difference, but
one to point out nonetheless.

case in point - another album that had a lasting impression on yrs truly
was merzbow's animal magnetism - a great disc but i dont think i can
actually say that i love it... or that ive heard it more than... twice?

scientology... uhm... uhhhh.... what?

jeez, i try to suggest that we try to play nice and y'all accuse me of
diggin both bitches and l.ron...?

...strange.

Quoting Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com>:

>
> On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Travis C. Johns wrote:
>
> > ... god, I really am becoming a fucking hippy, arent i...
>
> - That would explain the love Bitches Brew.
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From letucepry at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 22:24:58 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Boots Randolf
Message-ID: <653719.80904.qm@web50303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hell, 
what are the nekked ladies on Benny Hill going to bounce up and down to now???


lettuce



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 3:09:49 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Boots Randolf


Not new music, but Boots was hella cool...
PG


Sax player Boots Randolph dead at 80

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Boots Randolph, whose spirited saxophone
playing on songs like "Yakety Sax" made him one of Nashville's top
musicians, died Tuesday. He was 80. Randolph suffered a cerebral
hemorrhage June 25 and had been hospitalized in a coma. He was taken off
a respirator earlier Tuesday, said Betty Hofer, a publicist and
spokeswoman for the family. Randolph played regularly in Nashville
nightclubs for 30 years, becoming a tourist draw for the city much like
Wayne Newton in Las Vegas and Pete Fountain in New Orleans. He recorded
more than 40 albums and spent 15 years touring with the Festival of
Music, teaming with fellow instrumentalists Chet Atkins and Floyd
Cramer. As a session musician, he played on Elvis Presley's "Return to
Sender," Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman," Brenda Lee's "Rockin' Round
the Christmas Tree" and "I'm Sorry," REO Speedwagon's "Little Queenie,"
Al Hirt's "Java" and other songs including ones by Buddy Holly and
Johnny Cash. In 1963 he had his biggest solo hit, "Yakety Sax," which he
wrote.

His final recording was on the Zoho label

Boots Randolph A Whole New Ballgame Zoho Music 200706 Street Date: June
12, 2007 Boots Randolph tenor sax, Roddy Smith guitars, Steve Willets
piano, Tim Smith bass, Ray Von Rotz drums & percussion, Jason Webb -
keyboard strings, Mark Stallings - Hammond B 3

http://www.zohomusic.com/

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul  3 23:11:17 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:11:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@