From weaselw at juno.com  Sun Jul  1 01:53:16 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 01:53:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] weasel walter free jazz overdubs - download them here
Message-ID: <20070701.015317.1868.34.weaselw@juno.com>

http://themoreyouthinkaboutit.blogspot.com/

i stumbled across this guy that has devoted his blog to posting most of
my free jazz karaoke recordings and some other stuff like that. what a
trooper. i love it when i don't have to promote myself!

ww

weasel walter

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 11:43:29 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] The breathtakingly bad Phil
	Collins...(bububut...Foxtrot? Nursery Crimes?)
In-Reply-To: <556475.49939.qm@web50307.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <308185.56431.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm with you Mr. Lettuce....and your Richard Dreyfuss analogy is spot on!
   
  The last time I saw Genesis it was the first tour they did without Peter (I saw the final tour as well...fucking amazing...to a 16 year old anyway...). Bill Bruford and Phil Collins were playing drums on that tour (so Collins could sing some of the stuff without playing drums). They did a great drum duo that I can still (sort of remember), but the memory stands that it was amazing.
   
  Keep in mind this was a time when REO Speedwagon and other mindless bands were dominating the FM dial (I'm copping Gino's comment from the other day). I was already into jazz, but not improvised or other alternative musics. So hearing The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway live with "some drummer named Phil" was pretty fucking sweet.
   
  PG
  

Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Hard to believe that that's the same guy who was singing about snakes slithering through the antichamber back in the 70s. (how soon we forget that he was in Genesis, I mean "Genesis, the early years, when thier music was good"...I don't know if you're poking fun at this time with the "epic song structures" jab, but if you don't know what this means, you should really go search out Foxtrot or Nursery Crimes, unless you REALLY hate prog rock...). Try telling anyone born after 1980 this "You know, Phil Collins, and Peter Gabriel used to be in one of the greatest Prog Rock bands of all time...and thier music was pretty good..."

but alas, sadly, he is the Richard Dreyfuss of Rock music...


lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: corey fogel 
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:25:14 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The breathtakingly bad Phil Collins


i sincerely hope that the ebbs and flows of my improvising have half the
lyricism of Phil Collins' phrases as a singer and drummer; that my sonic
pallette resonates as lucidly with my bag of tricks as the pairing of his
melodies/vocal timbre, and that any horizontal or vertical architecture has
half the integrity of many of his epic song structures.

oh, and I really hope someday soon to master his ridiculously tasteful way
of filling over the barline into beginning of the next measure ("In The Air
Tonight", and "Take Me Home")

corey

Matt Davignon:

> When I talk about making music for other people, there's always
> jumping to the extreme of "oh, let's get on KFOG". That's not what I'm
> talking about - if you try to make music for everyone, you'll turn
> into Phil Collins. It's more about understanding that there are people
> who like listening to unusual music, acknowledging that you're one of
> them, and trying to make the music you'd like to hear from yourself if
> you were hearing it from someone else's ears.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 11:49:43 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] celebrating Phil Collins with Frith
In-Reply-To: <20070628.122314.7556.56.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <10927.51673.qm@web81414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Right on.
   
  Fred Frith and I were having a conversation about recording "Before and After Science" with Brian Eno. I loved that record, and Another Green World, and I was asking him about Eno's recording process for those records (I was mistaken about Another Green World - Frith is "thanked" by Eno on that record - I rememberd it that Frith played on the recording)....

  Anyways, Frith and I started talking about Phil Collins and he was raving about what a great drummer he was (as if he had to convince me). He says there were some pieces they did just improvising - with Collins on drums and Frith playing his guitar on a table with drum sticks...he wants to know where those tracks disappeared to, because he felt they were amazing...
   
  PG
   
  
weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
  if my music can achieve just one 1/3 of the excitement and tension of the
final coda to "the return of the giant hogweed" by genesis, then i can
die a happy corey fogel.

ww

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Ron Lettuce
writes:
> Hard to believe that that's the same guy who was singing about snakes 
> slithering through the antichamber back in the 70s. (how soon we 
> forget that he was in Genesis, I mean "Genesis, the early years, 
> when thier music was good"...I don't know if you're poking fun at 
> this time with the "epic song structures" jab, but if you don't know 
> what this means, you should really go search out Foxtrot or Nursery 
> Crimes, unless you REALLY hate prog rock...). Try telling anyone 
> born after 1980 this "You know, Phil Collins, and Peter Gabriel used 
> to be in one of the greatest Prog Rock bands of all time...and thier 
> music was pretty good..."
> 
> but alas, sadly, he is the Richard Dreyfuss of Rock music...
> 
> 
> lettuce
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: corey fogel 
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:25:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The breathtakingly bad Phil Collins
> 
> 
> i sincerely hope that the ebbs and flows of my improvising have half 
> the
> lyricism of Phil Collins' phrases as a singer and drummer; that my 
> sonic
> pallette resonates as lucidly with my bag of tricks as the pairing 
> of his
> melodies/vocal timbre, and that any horizontal or vertical 
> architecture has
> half the integrity of many of his epic song structures.
> 
> oh, and I really hope someday soon to master his ridiculously 
> tasteful way
> of filling over the barline into beginning of the next measure ("In 
> The Air
> Tonight", and "Take Me Home")
> 
> corey
> 
> Matt Davignon:
> 
> > When I talk about making music for other people, there's always
> > jumping to the extreme of "oh, let's get on KFOG". That's not what 
> I'm
> > talking about - if you try to make music for everyone, you'll 
> turn
> > into Phil Collins. It's more about understanding that there are 
> people
> > who like listening to unusual music, acknowledging that you're one 
> of
> > them, and trying to make the music you'd like to hear from 
> yourself if
> > you were hearing it from someone else's ears.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Mon Jul  2 13:34:55 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:34:55 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] celebrating Phil Collins with Frith
In-Reply-To: <10927.51673.qm@web81414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070628.122314.7556.56.weaselw@juno.com>
	<10927.51673.qm@web81414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707021334m58e120e2la60023b36a1b3917@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be honest - Phil Collins frightens me. I'm aware of his
reputation as an excellent prog rock drummer in the 70's, even though
I haven't heard any of the tracks.  (Though I think Phil Collins is on
some of my favorite Talking Heads records - or is that Robert Palmer?)

You know what that means though? That means all the stuff Phil has
been doing since 1985 is the stuff you do "after" great things. Could
it be the next step of development for musicians?

Interesting note - apparently he recently collaborated with Bone Thugs
n' Harmony, doing the chorus vocals for their rap to his song. He's in
the video and everything. They made him an honorary thug and gave him
the name "Chrome Bone".

Matt

On 7/2/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
> Right on.
>
>   Fred Frith and I were having a conversation about recording "Before and After Science" with Brian Eno. I loved that record, and Another Green World, and I was asking him about Eno's recording process for those records (I was mistaken about Another Green World - Frith is "thanked" by Eno on that record - I rememberd it that Frith played on the recording)....
>
>   Anyways, Frith and I started talking about Phil Collins and he was raving about what a great drummer he was (as if he had to convince me). He says there were some pieces they did just improvising - with Collins on drums and Frith playing his guitar on a table with drum sticks...he wants to know where those tracks disappeared to, because he felt they were amazing...
>
>   PG
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 15:36:45 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:36:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Noisy People Review Online
In-Reply-To: <34EC3AC09ED2D24288CDD6BB1A348511066E2D7B@exchange.ceb.ucop.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c7bcf9$79055660$4001a8c0@PG>

Hey Henry,

Nice objective review that lays out nicely what the film is all
about...thanks for taking the time to think about it and do some nice
writing in response. I also appreciate that you covered Kenneth and
Letitia's position in the piece.

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Henry Kuntz
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 1:28 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion List (Bay Area New Music Discussion
List)
Subject: [NewMusic] Noisy People Review Online

My review of Noisy People is online at metropolis:
http://www.m-etropolis.com/wordpress/?language=en
<http://www.m-etropolis.com/wordpress/?language=en> 
It will be archived on the BELLS page here:
http://www.m-etropolis.com/bells/ <http://www.m-etropolis.com/bells/> 
under
henry kuntz and the bells story continues  <javascript: pge.o(75);>
here...
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 15:58:44 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:58:44 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <F47ABBBF-2404-4D7A-A8EE-5322CE7A748C@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <000001c7bcfc$8b40f8e0$4001a8c0@PG>

----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of John Shiurba
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county

i've been in wayne (shorter) county for about umpteen years now, and  
i still can't stand f*cking bitches brew.

PG:
That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't like?

I'm curious, because I've always had uneasy feelings about that record
as well. I always found it ironic that this was the first "jazz" record
to make gold record status (of course, Columbia advertised it in Rolling
Stone - which probably didn't hurt record sales). There are some nice
moments and grooves, but I don't like it as much as Live Evil or some of
the other electric stuff from that era. Live Evil is really raw, and I
like that.

As far as Wayne goes, he's the reason I play saxophone. I think it was
Mysterious Traveller - which I heard as a senior in high school...it was
something about the timbre of his soprano - it had this really clear
sound that cut through all the wash of texture that band was apt at
producing.  I fell in love with it and began trying to find out where I
could get my hands on a soprano saxophone. I found a pawn shop in Canoga
Park that had an old silver Conn - I hooked up with her right away and
played that horn for several years until I got an upgrade. I started
playing tenor about two years later - I thought I was just going to play
soprano for life (this was about 3 years before I discovered Steve
Lacy). I'm glad I made friends with the tenor, an extremely valuable
relationship. It was my dad that convinced me I should play tenor - not
"just" soprano.

Today, I'm not such a fan of Wayne's soprano sound - more often than not
it got the microphone in the bell treatment by those engineers, and I
grew to hate that sound in short order. But I still love Wayne's tenor
playing and his big Otto Link sound, which comes with all sorts of
squirrelly intonation issues - one of the things I like so much about
his playing - it doesn't sound as "controlled" as the other great tenor
players - it always sounds a little like he's going to spin out of
control with the intonation - it's that tension that arises from the
intonation that I like so much when I listen to him (in addition to his
brilliant lyricism!).  Along with some of those recordings he did with
Miles in that amazing quintet (with Hancock, Carter and Williams), I
still enjoy listening to pretty much all of the Blue Note recordings he
made...Ju-Ju is among my favorites - it's fantastic to hear him with
Coltrane's rhythm section of the day (Garrison, Tyner, Jones).


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:12:18 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:12:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <A12AE616-FF3F-4D91-8F18-0EBF2ED629B8@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of David Slusser
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Tom Duff wrote:
>
> It's pretty obvious that Hadju and Zorn differ fundamentally on the  
> nature
> of music and the composer's role in it.  My experience is that when  
> people
> have aesthetic disagreements and one of them gets angry (I think  
> accusing
> an artist of being "elementally corrupt" entails anger) it's usually
> because his inability to understand the other's point of view leads  
> him to
> believe that his opponent cannot really hold his stated position  
> and so
> must be insincere.

Wow.  Thanks, Tom, and the ensuing thread.
David Hajdu's biography of Strayhorn, "Lush
Life", is incredibly great, on all levels, so it
was amazing to read him tear into someone
else I'm familiar with.

PG:
Thanks, David - great post.

I was enjoying reading this thread on the road but never had time to
comment on it. Then I got out of email range and when I returned to
Slusser's comment, I found he had said many things I would have said. I
also enjoyed Hadju's book on Strayhorn, so I was also disappointed to
read the article on JZ.

Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so painful to
read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's venom
floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

Anyway, great response Mr. Slusser. Write on.


From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Jul  2 16:23:39 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:23:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <41CD421B-27FD-4A6A-88ED-ED2B1247C639@pixar.com>

On Jul 2, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> I was enjoying reading this thread on the road but never had time to
> comment on it. Then I got out of email range and when I returned to
> Slusser's comment, I found he had said many things I would have  
> said. I
> also enjoyed Hadju's book on Strayhorn, so I was also disappointed to
> read the article on JZ.
>
> Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so  
> painful to
> read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
> something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's  
> venom
> floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

...figured PG was out of town since he hadn't weighed in.

Wanted to add that when I printed out Hadju's article for reference,
I saw the header I hadn't noticed before.  In big bold letters:

TZADICK  (instead of Tzadik)

(now that's nasty)

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:27:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:27:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <265DA4AB-C914-45D8-8E00-F7E46B844BED@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd00$83f06d10$4001a8c0@PG>

PG:

Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I had
to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking Billie
Holliday clone...makes me sick.

I heard him do a marvelous improvisation with Donald Robison once on a
Larry Ochs Sax and Drumming Core set. They were communicating in a
really beautiful way and time was not particularly present or important.
The truth is: he can play his ass off at times. Steve Adams put together
a double trio once that I played in, Gino and Amendola on drums...that
was nice!

I am a solid veteran of the Scott Amendola experience. We parted due to
economic reasons. It's a long story, but not terribly interesting. I'd
tell it, but as I once said on this list, I'm trying to live by that
lesson so many of our mothers tried to teach: "If you can't say
something nice about someone, don't say anything". The truth is, I
respect him regardless of our differences - as a human being. As a
drummer, he does certain things very well, and one of those things is
laying down a groove.

With a little more regard to his playing, I grew tired of always having
the big beat shoved up my ass. It's probably best we parted ways.  He's
a heavy handed drummer. Sometimes that's just what you want. But I'd
rather play with Tom Hassett any day of the week - but no one (certainly
not your average hipster) knows who Tom Hassett is, so he's probably not
a very good drummer...

;)

PG



----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of David Slusser
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand

Pardon more verbiage, but there are still points out there to be
made.  Tuesday's show @ 21Grand (7/26) may be an example.
I missed the write-up in the Express, and don't know precisely
what drew the nice size audience (besides the kids from Oregon
traveling with their boy/girl friends).  The auslanders certainly
resemble Jacob's description - I found them predictable with
barely tolerable technique, but actually enjoyed the energy when
they would finally build up a head of steam (and le Gruntfest's
guest turn certainly elevated the proceedings).  Hopefully they will
develop.  I think the WWCC was exceptionally good, but doubt the
audience was attracted to the prospect of "too much gloom for one
room" (in other words, a clarinet ensemble).

Perhaps it was the appeal of the Amendola/Bossi duo that graced us
with their audience.  I certainly won't look a gift horse in the mouth
for putting butts in seats for a night of improvised music.  I don't
think the percussionists were being disingenuous about trying to
play a totally free music set.  Why do I view them with a jaundiced
eye?  Because they don't play free music all the time?  Because they
may be more calculating or aggressive about making it in the music
business?  That there's an audience willing to hear them do just
about anything?  Are these the hipsters Jacob mentioned?  We
should thank the duo for bringing the hipsters in and hope our best
efforts rubbed off on them.

For those that split before the headliners - there were bits that were
predictable and cute, but those are also elements that widen the net
for audience.  I liked their counterpoint and textures, and how they
morphed.  Good listening is not so hard in a duo, but I felt they
used it more to just keep an implied time going - almost desperate
some times.  Perhaps that makes them visitors to the scene - they
didn't really let go of time...maybe that's too much to expect of
drummers.  Otherwise, their imaginativeness and taste were quite
enjoyable.  They could use a few lessons from Moe and Gino about
playing the floor and other off-set surfaces/objects - but at least
they tried the concept.

  Hipsters welcomed?


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:33:32 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:33:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <20070628.132614.7556.63.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c7bd01$67d22230$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand

i'd love to hear who scott thinks the bullshit artists are . . . 

ww

PG:
Anyone who isn't making money at the game...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:38:28 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:38:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] threadless
In-Reply-To: <255882.24951.qm@web58712.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c7bd02$181126f0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Moe! Staiano
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly annoying

...for the fact that I have  40+ messages in my inbox, only to be
deleted. I truly now hate these discussion that drag on. Ugh. 

       
PG:
Then don't take part in them.

On the other hand, although I was away and didn't have a chance to read
them in the moment, I'm enjoying spending my "day of relaxation" after
my trip browsing through the minds of my fellow colleagues.

But yeah, there are a lot of threads in this quilt. Since the threads
have changed so much it's fine to change the subject line once in a
while...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:40:14 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:40:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney
In-Reply-To: <C2A976EC.1E2CF%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <000301c7bd02$57a19520$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney

- not mine! My fave is Jacob Lindsay and the Lindsay Lohan Coke Habits -
sensitive listening meets psychobilly covering songs by The Cramps!

sl

PG:
I want to play in that band!!!!!!!!!!
 
God damn, you're a fucking genius, Sarah!!!!!!!


From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 16:40:56 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:40:56 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>

bitches brew is just a little boring, that's all. it's no biggie. it's a
real pot-smoker, mellow-out kind of record. some people are into it. the
skronk-inclined tend to pass on it. 

ww 

> PG:
> That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't 
> like?

From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 16:42:55 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:42:55 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
Message-ID: <20070702.164300.1868.64.weaselw@juno.com>

> Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I 
> had to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking 
> Billie Holliday clone...makes me sick.

i suppose you are who you play with, huh?

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:41:41 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:41:41 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40706281436o38393945g1bc3d2196befcda0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401c7bd02$8b7603e0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly good Scott Looney

I've always wanted to head up Caril Ann and the Blue Fugates.
"Good evening everyone, I'm Caril Ann, and I swear I'm innocent!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caril_Ann_Fugate
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980724.html

P.

PG:
That sounds like a cocktail you get in Waikiki....
And the greeting sounds like the morning after...


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Mon Jul  2 16:42:47 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:42:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <000001c7bd00$83f06d10$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7bd00$83f06d10$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <26BA7C1C-D5AA-4C16-9C60-79E779555889@balancepointacoustics.com>

The last time I heard him, he sounded good, and had dynamics. Most of  
the the other times he was burying the other musicians, which does  
not count as "being able to play" in my book, esp. from a drummer ( I  
will admit to couple amature hour moments recently myself while re- 
learning how to deal with amps, but I am also not getting that kind  
of hype.)
I respect Larry, but I can't get into him as a replacement for Lisle.  
There are tons of interesting options for a local trio with Donald  
while Lisle is away and I don't find that to be one of them.


Damon


On Jul 2, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> PG:
>
> Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I  
> had
> to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking Billie
> Holliday clone...makes me sick.
>
> I heard him do a marvelous improvisation with Donald Robison once on a
> Larry Ochs Sax and Drumming Core set. They were communicating in a
> really beautiful way and time was not particularly present or  
> important.
> The truth is: he can play his ass off at times. Steve Adams put  
> together
> a double trio once that I played in, Gino and Amendola on drums...that
> was nice!
>
> I am a solid veteran of the Scott Amendola experience. We parted  
> due to
> economic reasons. It's a long story, but not terribly interesting. I'd
> tell it, but as I once said on this list, I'm trying to live by that
> lesson so many of our mothers tried to teach: "If you can't say
> something nice about someone, don't say anything". The truth is, I
> respect him regardless of our differences - as a human being. As a
> drummer, he does certain things very well, and one of those things is
> laying down a groove.
>
> With a little more regard to his playing, I grew tired of always  
> having
> the big beat shoved up my ass. It's probably best we parted ways.   
> He's
> a heavy handed drummer. Sometimes that's just what you want. But I'd
> rather play with Tom Hassett any day of the week - but no one  
> (certainly
> not your average hipster) knows who Tom Hassett is, so he's  
> probably not
> a very good drummer...
>
> ;)
>
> PG
>
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of David Slusser
> Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
>
> Pardon more verbiage, but there are still points out there to be
> made.  Tuesday's show @ 21Grand (7/26) may be an example.
> I missed the write-up in the Express, and don't know precisely
> what drew the nice size audience (besides the kids from Oregon
> traveling with their boy/girl friends).  The auslanders certainly
> resemble Jacob's description - I found them predictable with
> barely tolerable technique, but actually enjoyed the energy when
> they would finally build up a head of steam (and le Gruntfest's
> guest turn certainly elevated the proceedings).  Hopefully they will
> develop.  I think the WWCC was exceptionally good, but doubt the
> audience was attracted to the prospect of "too much gloom for one
> room" (in other words, a clarinet ensemble).
>
> Perhaps it was the appeal of the Amendola/Bossi duo that graced us
> with their audience.  I certainly won't look a gift horse in the mouth
> for putting butts in seats for a night of improvised music.  I don't
> think the percussionists were being disingenuous about trying to
> play a totally free music set.  Why do I view them with a jaundiced
> eye?  Because they don't play free music all the time?  Because they
> may be more calculating or aggressive about making it in the music
> business?  That there's an audience willing to hear them do just
> about anything?  Are these the hipsters Jacob mentioned?  We
> should thank the duo for bringing the hipsters in and hope our best
> efforts rubbed off on them.
>
> For those that split before the headliners - there were bits that were
> predictable and cute, but those are also elements that widen the net
> for audience.  I liked their counterpoint and textures, and how they
> morphed.  Good listening is not so hard in a duo, but I felt they
> used it more to just keep an implied time going - almost desperate
> some times.  Perhaps that makes them visitors to the scene - they
> didn't really let go of time...maybe that's too much to expect of
> drummers.  Otherwise, their imaginativeness and taste were quite
> enjoyable.  They could use a few lessons from Moe and Gino about
> playing the floor and other off-set surfaces/objects - but at least
> they tried the concept.
>
>   Hipsters welcomed?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 16:58:59 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:58:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand
In-Reply-To: <20070702.164300.1868.64.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c7bd04$f5db3050$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad 21Grand

> Amendola can play. He just forgets he can play. I'd forget too if I 
> had to play with Madeline Peyrow, or whatever her name is. Fucking 
> Billie Holliday clone...makes me sick.

i suppose you are who you play with, huh?

ww
 
PG:
That's a really good question, I should think. Yeah-people you play with
rub off on you. In this case, Scott was well into groove before Madeline
came along. 

Perhaps the question is: did he rub off on me? 
I don't think so.
In other words, I'm still not making money at this game.
;)

(the statements above are expressed in jest, with a dose of humor -
hopefully - I have no resentment or animosity toward Scott).


From jfheule at gmail.com  Mon Jul  2 18:37:01 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 18:37:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] photos
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707021837s42fe18d1mddf2f9145241d7ac@mail.gmail.com>

New in the photostream: Womantis (Boisen, Chessa, Fullmann, Nishi,
Wong), Sweet Glass Mouth (Gowns), Archaeopteryx, Sword & Sandals,
Woman's Worth, Mari Caust (Jakobsons, Karim, Teale),
Butcher/Lee/M?ller/Nilssen-Love, Sten Sandell Trio, Butcher/M?ller/van
der Schyff, Bennink/Chadbourne/et al., etc.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/sets/72157600278274486/

If anyone wants to donate $25 for me to upgrade my account,
functionality would be slightly improved... Paypal this address.

jacob
-- 
http://ettrick.org
http://myspace.com/ettrick
http://heule.us
http://myspace.com/jacobfelix

From tjohns at mills.edu  Mon Jul  2 20:34:16 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 20:34:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1183433656.4689c3b8a6049@webmail.mills.edu>

whoa. never go a week without checking yr newmus acct... the sheer
exhilaration of sorting through nearly 300 differing opinions on just
about every subject under the sun... fucking... amazing..? ...
overwhelming? ... staggering? other words that end in -ing...!?

so, uhm, have we actually gone as far as to begin bitches-bashing? shit,
that's almost as bad as listening to some 18 year old "heepster" recite
the age old dribble of "yah, I like totally dig the beach boys, like,
waaay more than the beatles..." or for that matter, listening to the
umpteenth umpteen year old at the il corral vehemently exclaim "you
know, like, noise is the new punk...!"

hehheh, how original.

eh, I dunno, maybe it's just my age and upbringing, but bitches was
probably one of the first discs of "out" music that invaded me noggin
way back in the wayback that had a lasting effect on yours truly... I
mean, yeah, it didn't quite have the same face-melting effect as the
first time that I heard spiritual unity or philosophy of the world, but
shit, I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of those
legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm, yah, that
solo was quite compelling, but you should really hear this rare
pressing recorded by this franciscan monk in sweden that features this
overblown inverse retrograde line blown while some other legendary
(what do you mean you've NEVER heard of him???) crumhorn player was
sitting in... i mean, he doesn't actually PLAY on the record, but the
sheer fact that he was in the room at the time..."

eh, just reeling it in and all that - i don't mean to be more
vindictively snarkful than usual, but I'm sure we can find better
convopaths to follow other than "hands up if you like bitches... ok,
now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

besides, if you really want the "marijuana" experience, toss on a copy
of disc 2 of the complete in a silent way sessions... not like i'd
know, of course...

... sorry, it's been awhile - thought I'd interject with an opinion or
two...

t.

Quoting weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>:

> bitches brew is just a little boring, that's all. it's no biggie.
> it's a
> real pot-smoker, mellow-out kind of record. some people are into it.
> the
> skronk-inclined tend to pass on it.
>
> ww
>
> > PG:
> > That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't
> > like?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From tjohns at mills.edu  Mon Jul  2 20:34:21 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 20:34:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1183433661.4689c3bdea609@webmail.mills.edu>

whoa. never go a week without checking yr newmus acct... the sheer
exhilaration of sorting through nearly 300 differing opinions on just
about every subject under the sun... fucking... amazing..? ...
overwhelming? ... staggering? other words that end in -ing...!?

so, uhm, have we actually gone as far as to begin bitches-bashing? shit,
that's almost as bad as listening to some 18 year old "heepster" recite
the age old dribble of "yah, I like totally dig the beach boys, like,
waaay more than the beatles..." or for that matter, listening to the
umpteenth umpteen year old at the il corral vehemently exclaim "you
know, like, noise is the new punk...!"

hehheh, how original.

eh, I dunno, maybe it's just my age and upbringing, but bitches was
probably one of the first discs of "out" music that invaded me noggin
way back in the wayback that had a lasting effect on yours truly... I
mean, yeah, it didn't quite have the same face-melting effect as the
first time that I heard spiritual unity or philosophy of the world, but
shit, I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of those
legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm, yah, that
solo was quite compelling, but you should really hear this rare
pressing recorded by this franciscan monk in sweden that features this
overblown inverse retrograde line blown while some other legendary
(what do you mean you've NEVER heard of him???) crumhorn player was
sitting in... i mean, he doesn't actually PLAY on the record, but the
sheer fact that he was in the room at the time..."

eh, just reeling it in and all that - i don't mean to be more
vindictively snarkful than usual, but I'm sure we can find better
convopaths to follow other than "hands up if you like bitches... ok,
now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

besides, if you really want the "marijuana" experience, toss on a copy
of disc 2 of the complete in a silent way sessions... not like i'd
know, of course...

... sorry, it's been awhile - thought I'd interject with an opinion or
two...

t.

Quoting weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>:

> bitches brew is just a little boring, that's all. it's no biggie.
> it's a
> real pot-smoker, mellow-out kind of record. some people are into it.
> the
> skronk-inclined tend to pass on it.
>
> ww
>
> > PG:
> > That's interesting - what is it about Bitches Brew that you don't
> > like?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 20:45:03 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:45:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070702.204515.1868.78.weaselw@juno.com>

>I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of 
> those legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm, yah, 
> that solo was quite compelling . . . 

why? says who? 

furthermore saying something like "on the corner" would appeal to damon
smith more than bitches brew" is not obscuritantism in the slightest. it
was, like, a few albums later and, like bitches brew, can be found for 2
dollars in a used vinyl bin any day of the week. 

you're pretty much just making a big deal out of nothing. nobody else
here has their panties in a bunch about it. just you. chill out. 

ww

From amar at ptank.com  Mon Jul  2 20:42:55 2007
From: amar at ptank.com (Amar)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <1183433656.4689c3b8a6049@webmail.mills.edu>
References: <20070702.164300.1868.63.weaselw@juno.com>
	<1183433656.4689c3b8a6049@webmail.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <62605.69.107.76.227.1183434175.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>

Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might as
well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download service. 
This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you to
place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your music in
non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not interesting). 
CDBaby works directly with them as well.

Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?

  -Amar


--------
Amar Chaudhary
http://www.amar-music.info
http://www.myspace.com/amarchaudhary



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 20:52:11 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:52:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
Message-ID: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>

i'm having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded store .
. . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc. it's
almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm awaiting a
response about this dilemma. 

in theory it seems fine, in practice it's kind of rough at the moment.
i'm getting paid by i-tunes pretty regularly, so i'm not dying to get my
snocap crap streamlined right this second.

ww
 
On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:42:55 -0700 (PDT) "Amar" <amar at ptank.com> writes:
> Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might 
> as
> well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download 
> service. 
> This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you 
> to
> place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your 
> music in
> non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not 
> interesting). 
> CDBaby works directly with them as well.
> 
> Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?

From bthrew at gmail.com  Mon Jul  2 20:50:03 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:50:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000301c7bcfe$6fd28090$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <86115B69-DECA-4AD9-B800-722E7647DF30@gmail.com>

> Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so  
> painful to
> read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
> something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's  
> venom
> floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

Is it even possible to be a music writer with objectivity?  Would you  
want it even if it could happen? Imagine if there was one columnist  
out there that could tell you for certain, beyond all doubt, that you  
sucked...heavy prospect...Its not like this guy was out gathering a  
lot of empirical data with lasers and abacuses here..

So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.

But I also like REO and hate Phil Collins, so what the hell do I know?

b

--
barry threw
Media Art and Technology
http://www.barrythrew.com
me(at)barrythrew(dot)com
857-544-3967

And I know not if, save in this, such gift be allowed to man,
That out of three sounds he frame, not a fourth sound, but a star.
-Robert Browning



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 21:03:45 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:03:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <20070702.210346.1868.80.weaselw@juno.com>

> So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.

it was interesting to read such a scholarly trashing of zorn. obviously
the writer thinks zorn sucks, but this writer was one of the first to be
so measured, well-researched and vicious in his critique. that's a
particularly rare occurence and i believe that's why the article was
brought to our attention. 

like many who personally know and work with zorn, mr. slusser was quick
to defend zorn . . . fair enough. i'm not going to take any sides on this
one (not like anyone really cares what "side" i'm on or needs my opinion
about it.)
 
now playing: blue oyster cult - "ME 262"

avant garde forever,

ww

From tjohns at mills.edu  Mon Jul  2 21:35:22 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Mon,  2 Jul 2007 21:35:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.204515.1868.78.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.204515.1868.78.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <1183437322.4689d20a975f1@webmail.mills.edu>

wow, that was like... 6 minutes after I posted...? yowza.

nope, no bunched panties here, just an irresistible urge to push a
button or two before I conk... in DC - convinced this city has no
nightlife outside of the societal horror known as Georgetown... the
usual more experimental haunts have neglected to book anything zesty,
possibly in a fit of patriotic fervor... It's funny, you never quite
realize exactly how much of a bay area hippy you actually are until
some beltway divebar turns you away for not adhering to their dress
code... even better - a lot of the places we've gone to refused to
serve most of the artists I've been working with this week because as
non-citizens, they failed to provide a passport ala official
"identification" - I mean c'mon, barring behavior that borders on
outright intentionally moronic, one of the stupidest things you can do
when traveling internationally is take your passport out on a bender...
common sense and all that... i digress.

though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that bitches
tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further weirdness -
kind of a moot point to argue about it - sure, it's boring in
comparison to some of the more out shit floating around in the
digi-ether, but at the same time, can you imagine some tweaky little
bandgeek middleschooler getting into anything deeper ala the freespazz
idiom without having some really cool older siblings, to say the
least...? shit, I'd love to nab a polaroid of a 6th grader's facial
expression following their first listen to a Luttenbacher's disc - you
know, why argue the musical validity of the gateway when we've all been
there already... instead of waxing the mainstream nostalgic, why not
dig our spurs in, throw on our snorkels and dive deep - here's
hoping...

... haven't listened to on the corner in years, tho - totally digging
that up when I get back - thnx fr th reminder.

uhm... yeah. new topic, please.

t.


Quoting weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>:

> >I guess I was always under the opinion that it was one of
> > those legendary pressings that was off limits to the usual "uhm,
> yah,
> > that solo was quite compelling . . .
>
> why? says who?
>
> furthermore saying something like "on the corner" would appeal to
> damon
> smith more than bitches brew" is not obscuritantism in the slightest.
> it
> was, like, a few albums later and, like bitches brew, can be found
> for 2
> dollars in a used vinyl bin any day of the week.
>
> you're pretty much just making a big deal out of nothing. nobody else
> here has their panties in a bunch about it. just you. chill out.
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 22:44:03 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:44:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>

> though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that 
> bitches tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further
weirdness 

i'm not convinced of this claim. please demonstrate statistics. i don't
personally know anyone other than you whose gateway to weird music was
bitches brew. you may have had that crystallized moment, which is why
you're having a minor tizzy about it.

you like it. i just think it's okay - there are a lot of electric miles
albums i like better. these are opinions. last time i checked this was a
discussion group. i'm discussing things. discussion is supposed to take
place in a discussion. if it doesn't make you happy that i don't love
bitches brew as much as you, i'm so awfully sorry. it doesn't necessarly
make me a snob or whatever you're trying to say anyone who dismisses the
album is . . . you should go after john shiurba instead because he said
he actually hates it. i was just recommending other miles davis electric
albums to damon smith. i know what his taste is and my response to him
was to enlighten him, not to make you cry. 

please don't come here and tell people what they can and can't talk
about. it's boorish and egotistical. if you find the discussion here
annoying, feel free to unsubscribe at your leisure. 

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 23:05:58 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:05:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <86115B69-DECA-4AD9-B800-722E7647DF30@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd38$3a4fb930$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of barry threw
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

> Mostly I didn't enjoy reading Hadju's piece because it was so  
> painful to
> read it. Painful in that it was clear this guy was writing about
> something he hated - despite his attempts at objectivity, there's  
> venom
> floating in the most innocent of his sentences in this article...

Is it even possible to be a music writer with objectivity?  Would you  
want it even if it could happen? Imagine if there was one columnist  
out there that could tell you for certain, beyond all doubt, that you  
sucked...heavy prospect...Its not like this guy was out gathering a  
lot of empirical data with lasers and abacuses here..

So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.

But I also like REO and hate Phil Collins, so what the hell do I know?

b

PG:
I'm all in favor of writers with passion who get fired up. The majority
of books on my bookshelves are filled with such writings. 

I don't tend to like reading any kind of prose where a writer has so
much contempt for his/her subject. I didn't enjoy reading this article.
There's no reason why I should enjoy reading everything, but I don't
tend to finish reading things I don't enjoy. 

When I try to write about things - music in particular - I try to find a
way to understand the composer or performer's intentions in any given
piece or performance. Otherwise, it's a matter of my personal opinion,
which can lack substance if it isn't "informed".

OK, I'm not a professional writer. But personally, I don't tend to write
about things unless I enjoy them. I don't see the point in joining the
ranks of critics who jeer things just because it isn't their cup of tea.
Why write merely to throw mud at others? 

My "aesthetic" makes for another kind of one-sided journalism; I am the
first to admit that. But there have been volumes of criticism that have
erupted from uninformed writers who are merely shooting from the hip.
The writings that come out of that particular school of journalism don't
tend to stand the test of time. They don't tend to be terribly accurate,
as far as getting down to really describing the work. I don't tend to
enjoy reading them, regardless of who or what they are criticizing.

As far as Phil Collins is concerned: who the fuck cares? I don't like
the guy today, or rather, I don't think about him, and haven't thought
about him much since I heard his first attempts at making pop records.
End of story...on this end.


From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 23:18:02 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:18:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <20070702.231803.6844.1.weaselw@juno.com>

> Why write merely to throw mud at others? 
 
i believe writers do this when they believe the subject needs to be taken
down a few notches. 

> As far as Phil Collins is concerned: who the fuck cares? I don't 
> like the guy today, or rather, I don't think about him, and haven't 
> thought about him much since I heard his first attempts at making pop 
> records. End of story...on this end.
 
he's had a few little bits here and there, but xenakis rules much harder.
i like the vibe of genesis' abacab album a little. it's got these really
creepy, slightly detuned synths all over it. it's a nice mood, especially
for a mainstream pop record. he's most certainly a total shill at this
point, but perhaps many moons ago he believed in creating art. . . ah,
innocence lost.

by the way, bitches brew is not my favorite miles davis electric album. i
just can't stop talking about it. 
 
ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 23:19:42 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:19:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <1183437322.4689d20a975f1@webmail.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <000101c7bd3a$25410740$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Travis C. Johns
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters

nope, no bunched panties here, just an irresistible urge to push a
button or two before I conk... in DC - convinced this city has no
nightlife outside of the societal horror known as Georgetown... the
usual more experimental haunts have neglected to book anything zesty,
possibly in a fit of patriotic fervor... It's funny, you never quite
realize exactly how much of a bay area hippy you actually are until
some beltway divebar turns you away for not adhering to their dress
code... even better - a lot of the places we've gone to refused to
serve most of the artists I've been working with this week because as
non-citizens, they failed to provide a passport ala official
"identification" - I mean c'mon, barring behavior that borders on
outright intentionally moronic, one of the stupidest things you can do
when traveling internationally is take your passport out on a bender...
common sense and all that... i digress.

PG:
DC is one of my least favorite destinations. Rampant racism, oppressive
heat, and that vibe that seems to permeate everywhere: "don't look at me
or I'll kill you" seems to be hanging on the faces of just about
everyone you meet on the train or subway. Scary place...

I remember playing in a nearby suburb called Lincoln Park (I think
that's what it's called). Slightly less oppressive vibe.

Travis:
though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that bitches
tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further weirdness -

PG:
I've already read Weasel's response to your post, so I will say (not
particularly in your defense - you can defend yourself...) that I agree
with you. At least a certain demographic...no, I don't have any
statistics, but I think the fact that Bitches Brew was the first "jazz"
record to go gold and reach a large "rock" audience (excuse the lame
terms here...a symptom of the industry) justifies your claim: a lot of
people that listened to rock (at that time in particular) were
introduced to Miles and "jazz" via B.B.
 
Travis:
kind of a moot point to argue about it - sure, it's boring in
comparison to some of the more out shit floating around in the
digi-ether, but at the same time, can you imagine some tweaky little
bandgeek middleschooler getting into anything deeper ala the freespazz
idiom without having some really cool older siblings, to say the
least...? shit, I'd love to nab a polaroid of a 6th grader's facial
expression following their first listen to a Luttenbacher's disc - you
know, why argue the musical validity of the gateway when we've all been
there already... instead of waxing the mainstream nostalgic, why not
dig our spurs in, throw on our snorkels and dive deep - here's
hoping...

PG:
There's hope in this statement, a hope I once subscribed to. But as
someone said recently, people seem to remember "stars" more than
"music". Miles became a bit of a rock star. That's why people remember
him. I doubt if any of those stoned out kids back in 69 really remember
what BB sounded like, although they are still likely to toss his name
out hoping the association will continue to make them hip. Obviously
this is the wrong reason why you would want people to think or remember
BB - and I think that also argues Weasel's point - if it did make him
popular, why? And did that popularity have anything to do with music, or
expanding his listeners to a wider range of sounds/styles...

I used to hold an opinion much like yours. Now I'm not so optimistic. I
wish you and your optimism a long and healthy life. It can be painful
when you lose it.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  2 23:24:43 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:24:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <20070702.231803.6844.1.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000501c7bd3a$d8af04d0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

> Why write merely to throw mud at others? 
 
i believe writers do this when they believe the subject needs to be
taken
down a few notches. 

PG:
Funny you should say that. The last time George Lewis was in town, we
had a discussion on this topic, and in particular, we were talking about
this list. He feels, or is certain, I should say, that journalists used
to sling mud to bring more attention to an artist.  I'm not sure if he's
still on this list, but if you are George, would you care to comment?


From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Jul  2 23:32:14 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:32:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <20070702.233215.6844.3.weaselw@juno.com>

sometimes people like to grind their axes. this place is no exception. 

ww

> PG:
> Funny you should say that. The last time George Lewis was in town, 
> we had a discussion on this topic, and in particular, we were talking 
> about this list. He feels, or is certain, I should say, that
journalists 
> used to sling mud to bring more attention to an artist.  I'm not sure
if 
> he's still on this list, but if you are George, would you care to 
> comment?
 

From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Jul  2 23:54:04 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:54:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <411F9776-1B47-4528-B1F0-EDB82A9CA9D4@pixar.com>

On the way home for dinner tonight, I saw someone not
unlike myself, walking at 40th & Telegraph - black random
t-shirt and jeans, over-the-ear-headphones, striding and
intently concentrating on some inner world he was hearing.
I saw myself at the same time I saw our own ww, who now
comes to the edge of flaming poor Travis, who I was about
to contact to see where I could get the drugs he is on.

(Seriously, folks...)  To understand Bitches Brews perhaps
inflated reputation, you might have had to have been there.
Some artists will tell you context is everything.  In 1969,
when it was recorded, and 1970, when the buzz really got
out, it was sui generis - in a class by itself.  It certainly
sounds average now, perhaps even mediorcre.  Reverential
playing of same can certainly cause irritation.  Back in the
day, it was shattering, if you can believe it.

All stated opinions have been valid, given the context.
Without getting too personal, I was a senior in high school
when it came out, trying to get a handle on jazz as a
tenor saxophonist, but doing rock jams with my con-
temporaries.  Lights went on and whistles went off when
I first heard one of the last standing jazz leaders leaping
off to play in the fields of idioms.  I suppose it's not as
much about the music as the leap.

On Jul 2, 2007, at 10:44 PM, weasel walter wrote:

>> though for argument's sake, what I was trying to say was that
>> bitches tends to act as somewhat of a musical gateway for further
> weirdness
>
> i'm not convinced of this claim. please demonstrate statistics. i  
> don't
> personally know anyone other than you whose gateway to weird music was
> bitches brew. you may have had that crystallized moment, which is why
> you're having a minor tizzy about it.
>
> you like it. i just think it's okay - there are a lot of electric  
> miles
> albums i like better. these are opinions. last time i checked this  
> was a
> discussion group. i'm discussing things. discussion is supposed to  
> take
> place in a discussion. if it doesn't make you happy that i don't love
> bitches brew as much as you, i'm so awfully sorry. it doesn't  
> necessarly
> make me a snob or whatever you're trying to say anyone who  
> dismisses the
> album is . . . you should go after john shiurba instead because he  
> said
> he actually hates it. i was just recommending other miles davis  
> electric
> albums to damon smith. i know what his taste is and my response to him
> was to enlighten him, not to make you cry.
>
> please don't come here and tell people what they can and can't talk
> about. it's boorish and egotistical. if you find the discussion here
> annoying, feel free to unsubscribe at your leisure.
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 00:10:42 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:10:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>

On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:52 PM, weasel walter wrote:

> m having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
> friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded  
> store .
> . . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc.  
> it's
> almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
> just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm  
> awaiting a
> response about this dilemma.
>

Mine shows up through IODA, I am just kind of ignoring it, the main  
"Artist" keeps changing.


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 00:15:23 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:15:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <411F9776-1B47-4528-B1F0-EDB82A9CA9D4@pixar.com>
References: <20070702.224404.6844.0.weaselw@juno.com>
	<411F9776-1B47-4528-B1F0-EDB82A9CA9D4@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707030015q1d2b4584n60a2cc0dd54a44d1@mail.gmail.com>

Just be glad that something relatively "cool" got you turned on to
weirder music. The artist who got me turned on to listening intently
to sounds is so square by today's standards, that I'm not going to say
it on a list. You'll have to ask me in person, and not while you're
holding eggs or expired squash. (Ha! Now I know better!)

Still waiting to hear that rockin' Phil Collins!

Matt

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 00:25:46 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:25:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
	<598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707030025l6ad92e1by7b280bce8d3353ba@mail.gmail.com>

Rent got all the edgetone artists set up with Snocap on myspace. Since
then, it frequently keeps all the elements on the page from loading.
Just now I got 'em all to work, but only after pressing "refresh"
twice.

On 7/3/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:52 PM, weasel walter wrote:
>
> > m having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
> > friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded
> > store .
> > . . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc.
> > it's
> > almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
> > just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm
> > awaiting a
> > response about this dilemma.
> >
>
> Mine shows up through IODA, I am just kind of ignoring it, the main
> "Artist" keeps changing.
>
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 00:39:14 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:39:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <20070702.210346.1868.80.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070702.210346.1868.80.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <64E70622-0A06-44C8-88F0-506116C3AC89@balancepointacoustics.com>

Like Cage, Zorn is an easy target and people try to sum up what he  
does as one thing. He has done too much to have it be a case of  
liking or not liking his work, or specifying what his work exactly is.
Obviously he is a good musician, he has ideas, he has done more for  
other musicians than any figure in his league I can think of.
He made his mark, nothing can change it. It is just a matter of  
whether you can learn something from or otherwise enjoy his work or not.


Damon


On Jul 2, 2007, at 9:03 PM, weasel walter wrote:

>> So the guy is all fired up.  Good.  Be a crappy article if he wasn't.
>
> it was interesting to read such a scholarly trashing of zorn.  
> obviously
> the writer thinks zorn sucks, but this writer was one of the first  
> to be
> so measured, well-researched and vicious in his critique. that's a
> particularly rare occurence and i believe that's why the article was
> brought to our attention.
>
> like many who personally know and work with zorn, mr. slusser was  
> quick
> to defend zorn . . . fair enough. i'm not going to take any sides  
> on this
> one (not like anyone really cares what "side" i'm on or needs my  
> opinion
> about it.)
>
> now playing: blue oyster cult - "ME 262"
>
> avant garde forever,
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From bthrew at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 01:05:05 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 01:05:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <000001c7bd38$3a4fb930$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7bd38$3a4fb930$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <9B38E6B9-E958-46E9-8ECF-3DBC46EA310C@gmail.com>

> I don't tend to like reading any kind of prose where a writer has so
> much contempt for his/her subject. I didn't enjoy reading this  
> article.
> There's no reason why I should enjoy reading everything, but I don't
> tend to finish reading things I don't enjoy.

I guess this article just didn't bother me on that front as much.  I  
felt like the writer came to an honest opinion about Zorn, and it was  
just a bad one.  I also didn't feel like he dismissed him  
outright...but to me it read like he was trying to give Zorn a  
chance, but his experience of the music got crushed under the weight  
of a lot of other things, which were enumerated at length...

I'm hardly a Zorn fanatic but I do really enjoy a great deal of his  
music; this article in itself didn't change my opinion of him.  But  
were I  to follow Zorn enough to learn that some of the criticisms  
that were alleged in this article were true, then I would probably  
express some of the same frustration with his artists persona.

Perhaps I'm wrong and it was really just sensational.  In that case,  
I enjoyed the sensationalism.

> As far as Phil Collins is concerned: who the fuck cares?

Possibly Phil Collins.  But not me.

b

--
barry threw
Media Art and Technology
http://www.barrythrew.com
me(at)barrythrew(dot)com
857-544-3967

And I know not if, save in this, such gift be allowed to man,
That out of three sounds he frame, not a fourth sound, but a star.
-Robert Browning



From jzitt at metatronpress.com  Tue Jul  3 02:23:58 2007
From: jzitt at metatronpress.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:23:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
In-Reply-To: <000101c7bd3a$25410740$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000101c7bd3a$25410740$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <468A15AE.6070903@metatronpress.com>

Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> 
> DC is one of my least favorite destinations. Rampant racism, oppressive
> heat, and that vibe that seems to permeate everywhere: "don't look at me
> or I'll kill you" seems to be hanging on the faces of just about
> everyone you meet on the train or subway. Scary place...

I lived there for a bout four year before coming here. Oddly, I think I 
get more of the subway face here than I ever did back east. Or maybe (as 
I suspect) it's part of the epidemic of solipsistic rudeness that's been 
growing everywhere since the start of the decade.

> I remember playing in a nearby suburb called Lincoln Park (I think
> that's what it's called). Slightly less oppressive vibe.

Probably Takoma Park. It's the Berkeley of DC.

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 02:25:31 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:25:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  breathtakingly bad
Message-ID: <C2AF641B.1E511%21grand@21grand.org>

Phillip pondered:
PG:
I don't tend to like reading any kind of prose where a writer has so
much contempt for his/her subject. I didn't enjoy reading this article.
There's no reason why I should enjoy reading everything, but I don't
tend to finish reading things I don't enjoy.

- to me it seemed like the author was content to focus mainly on Zorn's
persona - hence dwelling on the camo pants as well as the easiest targets of
his work (i.e. the Radical Jewish Culture series and it's arbitary
definition of Jewishness). He didn't really make much of an attempt to
examine Zorn's music on the terms that Zorn sets forth, or in the context of
his peers.  

- Yeah, the contempt is really obvious, which to me, lessens the force of
the author's arguments. The most effective method, I've noted, is to let the
subject hang himself, metaphorically speaking.

PG:
OK, I'm not a professional writer. But personally, I don't tend to write
about things unless I enjoy them. I don't see the point in joining the
ranks of critics who jeer things just because it isn't their cup of tea.
Why write merely to throw mud at others?

- Well, uh, speaking as someone who has written harshly about art I didn't
enjoy and made said writing public ... I tend not to write about art I
dislike that just "isn't my cup of tea." There are things I dislike because
I find the genre/medium boring, conventional, things that just are at odds
w/my personal aesthetic/sensibility, things that are mediocre made by
someone or shown somewhere I'd expect no more from. I don't write about
these things. I'm not going to write a scathing review of sloppy collages
shown at a caf?. I'm not going to write a negative review of an installation
that has whimsical birdies on model tree branches that's really just too
cutesy and fey for my tastes.  I'm not going to write a negative review
about derivative ab-ex painting - mainly because I'm not that interested in
painting to begin with, and as a piece of writing, what would that really
contribute to any discussion or give the reader something interesting to
think about. Yep, people are still imitating ab-ex painters from the 40s and
50s ... most of the current stuff sucks. It's kinda like dissing Phil
Collins' mid-80s output here.

- However, thinking about my rationale for writing and publishing harsh
critiques, I decided the following:
- My primary impetus to do so is based on the work failing or being
deceptive on its own terms, the terms themselves, or the goals the work has
set for itself, or the ideas it's trying to explore are things that interest
me.
- In order for the critique to be fair (and relevant), I need to look at it
in the context it set for itself, its intent, similar work/projects in the
same genre, etc. I won't write about something I don't know enough about.
- and some of it is about taking something down a notch ... I might not have
written one of the harsh show reviews I did if it had been at some
artist-run gallery or warehouse, but because it was Yerba Buena, I felt
better about it.

sl


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 06:42:31 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 06:42:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707030025l6ad92e1by7b280bce8d3353ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070702.205212.1868.79.weaselw@juno.com>
	<598F890D-EFAA-4AD1-92FD-C7B60AAAE8D2@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<c70e517b0707030025l6ad92e1by7b280bce8d3353ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707030642o107cd117l365327aaca109b7f@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't had any SNOCAP problems.  It loaded fine just now and
it looks like all the tracks are there.  Mine is through CD Baby.

P.

On 7/3/07, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Rent got all the edgetone artists set up with Snocap on myspace. Since
> then, it frequently keeps all the elements on the page from loading.
> Just now I got 'em all to work, but only after pressing "refresh"
> twice.
>
> On 7/3/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> > On Jul 2, 2007, at 8:52 PM, weasel walter wrote:
> >
> > > m having a lot of troubles with the snocap track managment. it's a
> > > friggin' mess. tracks are randomly disappearing from the embedded
> > > store .
> > > . . tracks that cdbaby sent them are not showing up . . . etc. etc.
> > > it's
> > > almost like they didn't finish writing all their code or something. i
> > > just wrote an SOS letter to my cdbaby liason about it and i'm
> > > awaiting a
> > > response about this dilemma.
> > >
> >
> > Mine shows up through IODA, I am just kind of ignoring it, the main
> > "Artist" keeps changing.
> >
> >
> > Damon Smith
> >
> > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> > http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 09:49:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:49:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] DeeCee
In-Reply-To: <468A15AE.6070903@metatronpress.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd92$14f78870$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Joseph Zitt
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters

I lived there for a bout four year before coming here. Oddly, I think I 
get more of the subway face here than I ever did back east. Or maybe (as

I suspect) it's part of the epidemic of solipsistic rudeness that's been

growing everywhere since the start of the decade.

PG:
To be fair to the place, I was only there twice, and both times I was
there about 3-4 days - hardly enough to "know" a place. In addition, it
was summer and beastly hot - it's possible the "vibe" was more
influenced by real physical suffering than attitude. Nonetheless, I
displayed my "Hey, I'm here, what's going on?" attitude, which was met
with, "go away, I'm busy scowling...and sweating."

JZ:
Probably Takoma Park. It's the Berkeley of DC.
 
PG:
Yeah, that's the place! - Very aptly put (Berkeley)...I played in a
place that doubles as a meditation center - the d?cor was strictly
Berkeley. I felt at home for a minute. On the continuing saga of being
fair, it was really quite nice - I mean, there were trees everywhere,
the houses weren't too close together, but still: the heat and the
mosquitoes! Damn, I thought I was back in St. Petersburg! - What is it
about building capitals on swamps?!?!?!

My other gig there was at a "jazz" club, playing solo Monk. I was
treated as somewhat of an oddity...solo saxophone seemed really foreign
to the audience. Again, it's just my quick-time observation, but I got
the impression that the jazz audience there is pretty conservative.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 10:07:59 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:07:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad
In-Reply-To: <C2AF641B.1E511%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <000001c7bd94$b5caba40$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: [NewMusic] breathtakingly bad

- Well, uh, speaking as someone who has written harshly about art I
didn't
enjoy and made said writing public ... I tend not to write about art I
dislike that just "isn't my cup of tea." There are things I dislike
because
I find the genre/medium boring, conventional, things that just are at
odds
w/my personal aesthetic/sensibility, things that are mediocre made by
someone or shown somewhere I'd expect no more from. I don't write about
these things. I'm not going to write a scathing review of sloppy
collages
shown at a caf?. I'm not going to write a negative review of an
installation
that has whimsical birdies on model tree branches that's really just too
cutesy and fey for my tastes.  I'm not going to write a negative review
about derivative ab-ex painting - mainly because I'm not that interested
in
painting to begin with, and as a piece of writing, what would that
really
contribute to any discussion or give the reader something interesting to
think about. Yep, people are still imitating ab-ex painters from the 40s
and
50s ... most of the current stuff sucks. It's kinda like dissing Phil
Collins' mid-80s output here.

PG:
Thanks for expanding on my point - this is a more complete statement on
my previous thoughts on the subject. Most of my critical writing has
been on film - and as you all know, there is just so much bad
film-making out there...it's too easy to say what isn't good - it seems
harder to find things that have some value. So I tend to write about
films that take us to new places, or films that have something valuable
to say, regardless of how it's said or expressed visually.

On that subject, there are some new Criterion releases coming out that
are really outstanding: hordes of classic 60's Japanese cinema and a
fairly new Ozu box-set; Tarkovsky's first effort from 1962, which is
really one of my all-time favorites (My Name is Ivan - or as it is
sometimes called Ivan's Childhood); Chris Marker's La Jetee and Sans
Soleil; Melville's Army of Shadows, along with Les Enfants Terribles -
his collaboration with Jean Cocteau; two Jarmusch releases; and GW
Pabst's outstanding Three Penny Opera. Since this is a music list, I
won't bother saying why these films RULE, just that they are worth
checking out.

More info here:
http://www.criterion.com/asp/new_releases.asp

Sarah
- However, thinking about my rationale for writing and publishing harsh
critiques, I decided the following:
- My primary impetus to do so is based on the work failing or being
deceptive on its own terms, the terms themselves, or the goals the work
has
set for itself, or the ideas it's trying to explore are things that
interest
me.
- In order for the critique to be fair (and relevant), I need to look at
it
in the context it set for itself, its intent, similar work/projects in
the
same genre, etc. I won't write about something I don't know enough
about.
- and some of it is about taking something down a notch ... I might not
have
written one of the harsh show reviews I did if it had been at some
artist-run gallery or warehouse, but because it was Yerba Buena, I felt
better about it.

PG:
Fair enough - those are fine critical guidelines to follow. 

Anyone been down to LA to see the Flavin retrospective? I enjoyed seeing
those pieces nicely displayed, although so much of LACMA's permanent
collection is out of reach at the moment (they're doing big-time
renovations), it may not be worth your while - there isn't much to see
these days there other than the Flavin.


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 11:07:54 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:07:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <C2AFDE8A.1E553%21grand@21grand.org>

Travis called out the scum, the filth:
that's almost as bad as listening to some 18 year old "heepster" recite
the age old dribble of "yah, I like totally dig the beach boys, like,
waaay more than the beatles..." or for that matter, listening to the
umpteenth umpteen year old at the il corral vehemently exclaim "you
know, like, noise is the new punk...!"

- maybe it's my age, but these are not things I hear very often, if at all
... partly due to the fact that il corral is not in the Bay Area.

 then express the desire for a real rain to wash all the scum off the
streets:
but I'm sure we can find better
convopaths to follow other than "hands up if you like bitches... ok,
now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

- what the hell is a "convopath"? Is it some 2012 new age Mayan calendar
thing?

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 11:24:48 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:24:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
Message-ID: <20070703.112448.6844.9.weaselw@juno.com>

> but I'm sure we can find better convopaths to follow other than "hands
up if you like bitches... 
> ok, now hands up if you DON'T like bitches..."

. . . or, like, go ahead and start a fuckin' topic instead of popping in
at random like a complete troll and complaining about someone elses'. 

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 11:50:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:50:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.112448.6844.9.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000701c7bda2$fc2c9400$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
 
. . . or, like, go ahead and start a fuckin' topic instead of popping in
at random like a complete troll and complaining about someone elses'. 

ww

PG:
Damn, one day you're saying no one should care what other people think,
the next minute you're telling Travis how to behave on BANEWMUS...that's
quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.

It's a DISCUSSION LIST, kiddies - there really shouldn't be a precedent
on how we're supposed to behave here. (sausage notwithstanding...)


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 11:56:15 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:56:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <000701c7bda2$fc2c9400$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000701c7bda2$fc2c9400$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <BF132BD3-2A99-42B4-AB3D-F1F8EA32C9E2@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> ...that's
> quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.

- Just like his drumming, balls-out, over-the-top one day, quietly  
rattling around a triangle on his snare the next. You never know what  
he will do...

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 11:58:12 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:58:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech
Message-ID: <C2AFEA54.1E55C%21grand@21grand.org>

PG:
Damn, one day you're saying no one should care what other people think,
the next minute you're telling Travis how to behave on BANEWMUS...that's
quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.

It's a DISCUSSION LIST, kiddies - there really shouldn't be a precedent
on how we're supposed to behave here. (sausage notwithstanding...)

- I dunno, from what I read, Travis was complaining about the topic of
denigrating Bitches Brew and Mr. Walter was merely suggesting he start a
topic more to his liking, though perhaps a bit brusquely ... perhaps he
should see an osteopath.

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:07:17 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:07:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.120724.6844.13.weaselw@juno.com>

yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!

ww
 
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:50:10 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of weasel walter
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] wayne county shape-shifters
>  
> . . . or, like, go ahead and start a fuckin' topic instead of 
> popping in
> at random like a complete troll and complaining about someone 
> elses'. 
> 
> ww
> 
> PG:
> Damn, one day you're saying no one should care what other people 
> think,
> the next minute you're telling Travis how to behave on 
> BANEWMUS...that's
> quite an aesthetic range you got there, WW.
> 
> It's a DISCUSSION LIST, kiddies - there really shouldn't be a 
> precedent
> on how we're supposed to behave here. (sausage notwithstanding...)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 

From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:13:37 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:13:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] IT"S ON!!!!
Message-ID: <20070703.121338.6844.14.weaselw@juno.com>

 BEGIN THE SAUSAGE
WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 12:16:45 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  IT"S ON!!!!
Message-ID: <C2AFEEAD.1E564%21grand@21grand.org>

- Weasel, did you want to have lunch this afternoon?

sl


 BEGIN THE SAUSAGE
WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:29:37 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:29:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] IT"S ON!!!!
Message-ID: <20070703.122937.6844.16.weaselw@juno.com>

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

w
 
On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:45 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
writes:
> - Weasel, did you want to have lunch this afternoon?
> 
> sl
> 
> 
>  BEGIN THE SAUSAGE
> WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 12:28:58 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:28:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish
Message-ID: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>

Has anyone eaten at S&S Seafood on Telegraph (near 49th)...that place always
smells really good whenever I walk by?

sl


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 12:31:42 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:31:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.120724.6844.13.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <006501c7bda8$c9693860$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of weasel walter
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:07 PM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!

ww
 
PG:
I love you.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 12:34:04 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:34:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish
In-Reply-To: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <007101c7bda9$1deb96d0$4001a8c0@PG>

They have a place downtown too where I had some fish and chips - not
bad...
PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:29 PM
To: Banewmus List
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish

Has anyone eaten at S&S Seafood on Telegraph (near 49th)...that place
always
smells really good whenever I walk by?

sl

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 12:39:12 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:39:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] (was sausage) now fish
In-Reply-To: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2AFF18A.1E566%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <005FE425-E19E-4789-AC49-FCF2103B7E3A@balancepointacoustics.com>

It is very solid. Good Oyster burger.
On Jul 3, 2007, at 12:28 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:

> Has anyone eaten at S&S Seafood on Telegraph (near 49th)...that  
> place always
> smells really good whenever I walk by?
>
> sl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 12:46:06 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:46:06 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.124607.6844.23.weaselw@juno.com>

dammit! now i am crying because . . . love is my weakness.

ww
 
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:31:42 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of weasel walter
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech
> 
> yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!
> 
> ww
>  
> PG:
> I love you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 12:44:15 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.124607.6844.23.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <007601c7bdaa$8a1aa340$4001a8c0@PG>

You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
When are we going to play music again?

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of weasel walter
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:46 PM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

dammit! now i am crying because . . . love is my weakness.

ww
 
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:31:42 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of weasel walter
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech
> 
> yo' phillip - FUCK YOU!
> 
> ww
>  
> PG:
> I love you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 13:01:08 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:01:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>

we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
sausage. 

after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
all of our "issues" on stage!

ww 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> When are we going to play music again?

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 13:01:47 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:01:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707031301n69cc67b0t93bb0aedbd412f75@mail.gmail.com>

Sausages are best utilized in performance as solid rocket fuel a la Mythbusters.
P.

On 7/3/07, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
> we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
> sausage.
>
> after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
> all of our "issues" on stage!
>
> ww
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
> <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> > You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> > When are we going to play music again?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 13:04:58 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031301n69cc67b0t93bb0aedbd412f75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <479209.63379.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Sausages are best utilized in performance as solid
> rocket fuel a la Mythbusters.

That was Salami. If you don't know your meats, how can
you have any pudding?

lance




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 13:09:23 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:09:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <479209.63379.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <2eb068d40707031301n69cc67b0t93bb0aedbd412f75@mail.gmail.com>
	<479209.63379.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707031309i3af705d3l2a866c74b70e7688@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/3/07, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:

> That was Salami. If you don't know your meats, how can
> you have any pudding?
>

Salami counts as sausage!
And it delivers 218 pounds of thrust!
Not sure how many in the new music community can make that claim...

P.
-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 13:17:32 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:17:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c7bdaf$307ccc00$4001a8c0@PG>

Do you have a contralto sausage?
I've never seen one.
What color is it?
Is it in Eb?

I tend to like Bb...so there's an issue right off the bat we're going to
have to deal with.

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of weasel walter
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:01 PM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
sausage. 

after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
all of our "issues" on stage!

ww 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> When are we going to play music again?
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 13:20:14 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:20:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031309i3af705d3l2a866c74b70e7688@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008001c7bdaf$90b9f160$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

Salami counts as sausage!
And it delivers 218 pounds of thrust!
Not sure how many in the new music community can make that claim...

P.
-- 
PG:
I think she's got you Lance - salami counts as sausage.

Not sure how you're measuring the thrust of salami though...I'd like to
see the machinery that measures such velocity.


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 13:21:59 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:21:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <008001c7bdaf$90b9f160$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <2eb068d40707031309i3af705d3l2a866c74b70e7688@mail.gmail.com>
	<008001c7bdaf$90b9f160$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707031321v72b1fffbr974729ed4ee8efb6@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/3/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
> PG:
> I think she's got you Lance - salami counts as sausage.
>
> Not sure how you're measuring the thrust of salami though...I'd like to
> see the machinery that measures such velocity.

The salami rocket was attached to a force gauge which measured the
thrust delivered upon liftoff.

But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about the salami rocket?
I thought he didn't watch TV...:)

P.


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 13:31:15 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031321v72b1fffbr974729ed4ee8efb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <811807.46591.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about
> the salami rocket?
> I thought he didn't watch TV...:)

Only Simpsons, Mythbusters and about a dozen movies a
week. really need to cut it out. i'll never make music
again. this week is going to be all Antonioni.

...and i don't want to imagine all those wasted hours
on youtube (but usually at work, so it is a positive
waste of my time)...

cheers

lance



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz 

From amar at ptank.com  Tue Jul  3 13:57:32 2007
From: amar at ptank.com (Amar)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <811807.46591.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <811807.46591.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50216.198.95.32.195.1183496252.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>

Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La Notte and L'avventura?


>> But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about
>> the salami rocket?
>> I thought he didn't watch TV...:)
>
> Only Simpsons, Mythbusters and about a dozen movies a
> week. really need to cut it out. i'll never make music
> again. this week is going to be all Antonioni.
>
> ...and i don't want to imagine all those wasted hours
> on youtube (but usually at work, so it is a positive
> waste of my time)...
>
> cheers
>
> lance
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Got a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 14:03:55 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:03:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <50216.198.95.32.195.1183496252.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>
Message-ID: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La
> Notte and L'avventura?

not as familiar with Antonioni as I should be, which
is why I'm checking them out this week. and to return
to the topic of music, I'm especially interested in
the work of Vittorio Gelmetti on the soundtracks to
his films. 

...and there is ALWAYS morricone.

anybody looking for all your groovy (library and film)
music needs should check out
http://www.moviegrooves.com/ . Where else are you
going to find the soundtracks to Nekromantic or a disc
with the re-recorded cues from the Andrei Tarkovsky
movies "Solaris" (1972), "Stalker" (1979) and "The
Mirror" (1974). a unique resource.

now back to the work!

cheers

lance




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From bradysharp at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 14:13:57 2007
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:13:57 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] uh... beach
Message-ID: <a7177e350707031413y756a34c4m44136aeba20a65a8@mail.gmail.com>

The thread was just getting too long for me. I had to beak it up!

Brady

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul  3 14:30:42 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:30:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <89a92a537242dab32d8adbdc17d115ac@matthewgoodheart.com>

After being obsessed with Stalker a couple weeks ago (watched it 3  
times in one week), I got interested in hunting down Artemiev's "12  
Looks at the World of Sound," and found it on an interesting  
compilation of ANS synthesizer works from Soviet Union, 1964-197. I'm  
sure a bunch of folks here know this CD- also includes pieces by  
Gubaidulina and Schnittke. Anyway, historically interesting at least.

On the film side- just finished watching Svankmajer's 2005 film  
"Lunacy." Worth watching, as all his films are, but wondering if, in  
the end, it's just a bit simplistic. On the other hand, maybe that's  
his point, as he says at the beginning of the film: "Today, art is all  
but dead anyway," and that all that is left is "a kind of trailer for  
the reflection of the face of Narcissus."
Hmmm.

Be curious as to others reactions to either work. . .

mg

On Jul 3, 2007, at 2:03 PM, Praemedia wrote:

>> Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La
>> Notte and L'avventura?
>
> not as familiar with Antonioni as I should be, which
> is why I'm checking them out this week. and to return
> to the topic of music, I'm especially interested in
> the work of Vittorio Gelmetti on the soundtracks to
> his films.
>
> ...and there is ALWAYS morricone.
>
> anybody looking for all your groovy (library and film)
> music needs should check out
> http://www.moviegrooves.com/ . Where else are you
> going to find the soundtracks to Nekromantic or a disc
> with the re-recorded cues from the Andrei Tarkovsky
> movies "Solaris" (1972), "Stalker" (1979) and "The
> Mirror" (1974). a unique resource.
>
> now back to the work!
>
> cheers
>
> lance
>
>
>
>
>        
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel  
> today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>


From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 14:32:55 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] lunacy
In-Reply-To: <89a92a537242dab32d8adbdc17d115ac@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <708915.32596.qm@web51610.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> the end, it's just a bit simplistic. On the other
> hand, maybe that's  
> his point, as he says at the beginning of the film:
> "Today, art is all  
> but dead anyway," and that all that is left is "a
> kind of trailer for  
> the reflection of the face of Narcissus."
> Hmmm.
> 
> Be curious as to others reactions to either work. .

I have not seen that one yet, but this is the first
film he has made since his wife passed away. she
helped produce all of his films and her death is a big
emotional blow to him as well. He stopped appearing
publicly and has refused all interviews since her
death.

lance



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz 

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 14:36:53 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:36:53 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707031321v72b1fffbr974729ed4ee8efb6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201c7bdba$45e68350$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:22 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

The salami rocket was attached to a force gauge which measured the
thrust delivered upon liftoff.
 
PG:
Salami rocket? - Wow, you've got me there.
 
PM:
But now I'm wondering -- how did Lance know about the salami rocket?
I thought he didn't watch TV...:)

PG:
Lance knows all and see all...he doesn't need a TV. 


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 14:52:08 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:52:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <50216.198.95.32.195.1183496252.squirrel@webmail.ptank.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7bdbc$67c82620$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Amar
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:58 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La Notte and L'avventura?

PG:
I'm not Lance (I know, there goes Greenlief - always stating the
obvious), but L'Eclisse is one of my favorites, and it is the final
installment of the "informal trilogy", that includes the two wonderful
films you mentioned above. The opening sequence, which goes on for about
7 minutes with no dialogue whatsoever, is absolutely brilliant.

Deserto Rosso (Red Desert) is an unusual film that most of his fans
like. It pits Monica Vitti against Richard Harris - a rather unlikely
pair - but it has all the mystique and atmosphere that the trilogy
boasts (albeit quietly).

I'm not a big fan of Blow Up, although it may be one of the more popular
films. David Hemmings kind of ruins it with his over the top ego in that
one.

I'm a big fan of The Passenger, which was recently re-released in its
original format (without the edits made by the American distributors
when it was first released). That's a fine film and probably one of the
great Nicholson performances (he's working way outside his schtick in
that film).

Among the earlier films (before the trilogy, which was really the
hallmark of his style and thematic concerns), I like Il Grido a LOT. I
also recently caught The Girlfriends (Le Amiche) at PFA, and found it to
be a really good neo-realist effort, with touches of his later thematic
concerns (the emptiness of the new rich and the inability to maintain
meaningful relationships) and his visual style.
 
I've never seen "Identification of a Woman", but I've read good things
about it - I can never find it at the video store.

If anyone knows where to find his "Superstition" (1949) or I Vinti (The
Vanquished - 1953), let me know. I've been looking for those films for
years.
 
To connect this discussion to music, and to roast a bit of sausage in
the act, Citta di Vitti (my trio with Mezzacappa and Levis) will be
playing tomorrow at Revolution Caf? in SF - the music I composed for
that group is all inspired by Antonioni's trilogy and his film Red
Desert. We play from 5 - 8 pm.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 14:54:28 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:54:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <240351.25092.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000101c7bdbc$bae99500$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Praemedia
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon

> Cool, any Antonioni recommendations, besides La
> Notte and L'avventura?

not as familiar with Antonioni as I should be, which
is why I'm checking them out this week. and to return
to the topic of music, I'm especially interested in
the work of Vittorio Gelmetti on the soundtracks to
his films. 
 
PG:
Actually, Giovanni Fusco wrote the music for the films in the trilogy I
mentioned in my last missive. But the Gelmetti soundtracks are also
tasty. Antonioni uses music in film as it should be used: really
sparingly.

Lance:
...and there is ALWAYS morricone.

PG:
Right! - And that totally shoots my previous comment - here's a guy that
knew how to invade the screen with the greatest music!


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:00:06 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:00:06 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <89a92a537242dab32d8adbdc17d115ac@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <000201c7bdbd$84412940$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matthew Goodheart
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon

After being obsessed with Stalker a couple weeks ago (watched it 3  
times in one week), I got interested in hunting down Artemiev's "12  
Looks at the World of Sound," and found it on an interesting  
compilation of ANS synthesizer works from Soviet Union, 1964-197. I'm  
sure a bunch of folks here know this CD- also includes pieces by  
Gubaidulina and Schnittke. Anyway, historically interesting at least.

PG:
HUGE fan of Stalker, don't know the recordings you're talking about.
I'll look for them. AND, I have to remember to bring Natasha Synessios'
essay on The Mirror for you next time I go to EBCFPA...it's really good.

MG:
On the film side- just finished watching Svankmajer's 2005 film  
"Lunacy." Worth watching, as all his films are, but wondering if, in  
the end, it's just a bit simplistic. On the other hand, maybe that's  
his point, as he says at the beginning of the film: "Today, art is all  
but dead anyway," and that all that is left is "a kind of trailer for  
the reflection of the face of Narcissus."
Hmmm.

PG:
Interesting sentiment...

Where did you find that? I remember seeing posters for it at the
Piedmont theater a few years ago, but then I never saw it arrive in the
theaters. Is it out now on DVD? I'm a fan of his work - especially
"Alice" and "Faust". The short films are cool too - totally innovative
and unique - but I like to see him work out on a longer narrative, which
is why I was so excited about Lunacy...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:09:49 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:09:49 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Boots Randolf
In-Reply-To: <000001c7bdbc$67c82620$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <001201c7bdbe$e0970ce0$4001a8c0@PG>

Not new music, but Boots was hella cool...
PG


Sax player Boots Randolph dead at 80

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Boots Randolph, whose spirited saxophone
playing on songs like "Yakety Sax" made him one of Nashville's top
musicians, died Tuesday. He was 80. Randolph suffered a cerebral
hemorrhage June 25 and had been hospitalized in a coma. He was taken off
a respirator earlier Tuesday, said Betty Hofer, a publicist and
spokeswoman for the family. Randolph played regularly in Nashville
nightclubs for 30 years, becoming a tourist draw for the city much like
Wayne Newton in Las Vegas and Pete Fountain in New Orleans. He recorded
more than 40 albums and spent 15 years touring with the Festival of
Music, teaming with fellow instrumentalists Chet Atkins and Floyd
Cramer. As a session musician, he played on Elvis Presley's "Return to
Sender," Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman," Brenda Lee's "Rockin' Round
the Christmas Tree" and "I'm Sorry," REO Speedwagon's "Little Queenie,"
Al Hirt's "Java" and other songs including ones by Buddy Holly and
Johnny Cash. In 1963 he had his biggest solo hit, "Yakety Sax," which he
wrote.

His final recording was on the Zoho label

Boots Randolph A Whole New Ballgame Zoho Music 200706 Street Date: June
12, 2007 Boots Randolph tenor sax, Roddy Smith guitars, Steve Willets
piano, Tim Smith bass, Ray Von Rotz drums & percussion, Jason Webb -
keyboard strings, Mark Stallings - Hammond B 3

http://www.zohomusic.com/

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com




From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul  3 15:13:12 2007
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:13:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
References: <20070703.130144.6844.24.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <007c01c7bdbf$58e40450$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

Isn't there a local group called Bitches Brew? Ezra Gale, Slusser on 
electronics + others? D.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "weasel walter" <weaselw at juno.com>
To: <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Cc: <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech


> we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
> sausage.
>
> after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
> all of our "issues" on stage!
>
> ww
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
> <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
>> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
>> When are we going to play music again?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date: 7/3/2007 
> 10:02 AM
>
> 


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:15:37 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:15:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech's brew
In-Reply-To: <007c01c7bdbf$58e40450$6501a8c0@eyefull01>
Message-ID: <001701c7bdbf$af47ccf0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of dmichalak
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech

Isn't there a local group called Bitches Brew? Ezra Gale, Slusser on 
electronics + others? D.

PG:
There is. I'm on Ezra's mailing list - and I see the gig notices. But I
haven't seen one for a while. Are you still in operation Mr. Slusser?


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul  3 15:25:45 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:25:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <000201c7bdbd$84412940$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000201c7bdbd$84412940$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <4440c094d79cb395a87d15a4357c5eee@matthewgoodheart.com>

>
> PG:
> HUGE fan of Stalker, don't know the recordings you're talking about.
> I'll look for them.

It's from these folks. 
http://www.electroshock.ru/eng/records/disk/vol_4ans/index.html
Check out their whole discography, pretty cool.
>

> Where did you find that? (Lunacy)  Is it out now on DVD?

I rented it from 5 Star Video on Solano. They've got a decent 
selection, and it's right down the hill from me, though they didn't 
have any Bela Tarr when I asked about it.  Reel Video also has a copy. 
There's a 2 dvd set of collected short, and also a newer release of 
some shorts called "The Ossuary." It's amazing, 5 years ago I had to 
hunt everywhere to find even an old vhs copy of his stuff, or pray that 
animation festivals might show something by him, now you can get it 
all. . .

> "Alice" and "Faust". The short films are cool too - totally innovative
> and unique - but I like to see him work out on a longer narrative, 
> which
> is why I was so excited about Lunacy...

According to Wikipedia, he's putting out another one next year called 
"Surviving Life (Theory and Practice)."

His shorts are still my favorite, except possibly for "Alice." But 
after watching "Dimensions of the Dialogue" I kind of felt. . . what 
the hell else is there to say?

mg



From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul  3 15:44:47 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:44:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon
In-Reply-To: <4440c094d79cb395a87d15a4357c5eee@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <002701c7bdc3$c2949be0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matthew Goodheart
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech blanket necronomicon

It's from these folks. 
http://www.electroshock.ru/eng/records/disk/vol_4ans/index.html
Check out their whole discography, pretty cool.

PG:
Thanks!

MG:
I rented it from 5 Star Video on Solano. They've got a decent 
selection, and it's right down the hill from me, though they didn't 
have any Bela Tarr when I asked about it.  Reel Video also has a copy. 
There's a 2 dvd set of collected short, and also a newer release of 
some shorts called "The Ossuary." It's amazing, 5 years ago I had to 
hunt everywhere to find even an old vhs copy of his stuff, or pray that 
animation festivals might show something by him, now you can get it 
all. . .

PG:
Global Video on Telegraph and 51st has a few Bela Tarr films...if you're
interested.
 
MG:
According to Wikipedia, he's putting out another one next year called 
"Surviving Life (Theory and Practice)."

His shorts are still my favorite, except possibly for "Alice." But 
after watching "Dimensions of the Dialogue" I kind of felt. . . what 
the hell else is there to say?

PG:
Good question.


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 16:25:57 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:25:57 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech
Message-ID: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>

- You could call it the convopath to enlightenment!

sl

Mr. Walter wrote:
we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
sausage. 

after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort out
all of our "issues" on stage!

ww 

On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
<pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> When are we going to play music again?


From tjohns at mills.edu  Tue Jul  3 17:24:38 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Tue,  3 Jul 2007 17:24:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>

... i think i should start charging y'all for the use of my own
particbrand of newspeak...

but as per request, what the hell is a convopath? erm... uhm... a.. path
of conversation?

heh - it's funny - you spend a good 10 or so hours doing electrical
gruntwork in a gallery on the opposite side of the country, head back
to the place yr crashing at, flip on the iNet and boom - bombardment on
all fronts from muchomany musicfolks looking for some sort of
particulate/philosophical matter in nearly every snarked out comment I
uttered last night - I mean, not to say that I'm not flattered and all,
but there's definitely a lot of hot topics that I'd like to clear up - 
just to set the record straight on what it is I said, inferred
surmised, complained about, etc etc etc - perhaps even under my very
own subject header, provided such an act would please the almighty
weasel, et al.

... but I'll do that at my own time - zonked out, exhausted and in dire
need of food before I collapse - stay tuned, kids.

HOWEVER, if you don't mind me throwing something entirely crazy out
there, allow me to make the following proposal:

Can we all, pretyplease, possiblymaybe agree that if discussions devolve
into snippy one liners aimed at attacking the integrity of one of the
other posters instead of actually furthering the discussion along in
any way, shape or form, can we instead resolve to take such comments
off list and spare the rest of the community the subsequent pissing
match, etc?

Just thought I'd throw that one out there - here's hoping...

... god, I really am becoming a fucking hippy, arent i...



Quoting Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>:

> - You could call it the convopath to enlightenment!
>
> sl
>
> Mr. Walter wrote:
> we will start a tribute to "bitches brew" performed on the contralto
> sausage.
>
> after that (or maybe before), we'll prob. have to do a duo and sort
> out
> all of our "issues" on stage!
>
> ww
>
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:44:15 -0700 "Phillip Greenlief"
> <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> writes:
> > You're a beautiful cat, Weasel.
> > When are we going to play music again?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  3 17:33:21 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:33:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech
Message-ID: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@21grand.org>

Travis suggested the convopath less travelled:
can we instead resolve to take such comments
off list and spare the rest of the community the subsequent pissing
match, etc?

- you cur, how dare you deny me the joys of banewmus pissing matches! I live
for them ... well ok, I also enjoy showers, fish and chips, and fruity girly
cocktails.  Are you some kind of scientologist?

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  3 17:39:11 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:39:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
Message-ID: <20070703.173913.6844.30.weaselw@juno.com>

 > Can we all, pretyplease, possiblymaybe agree that if discussions 
> devolve into snippy one liners aimed at attacking the integrity of one
of 
> the other posters instead of actually furthering the discussion along 
> in any way, shape or form, can we instead resolve to take such 
> comments off list and spare the rest of the community the subsequent
pissing
> match, etc?

no.

ww

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul  3 17:56:17 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:56:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>
References: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
	<1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <0F15EA9F-0B11-4DFD-9D06-5145B05A6A00@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Travis C. Johns wrote:

> ... god, I really am becoming a fucking hippy, arent i...

- That would explain the love Bitches Brew.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Jul  3 19:34:35 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:34:35 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Breakthrough in Grey Room playlist: 2007 Jun 13
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707031934x35374522u4418c019d854fd2f@mail.gmail.com>

This week's show is tonight, 11:59pm-3am (Tue. night/Wed. morning).
90.3 FM San Francisco
or online: http://heule.us/breakthrough/ (click "Online Broadcast")


Playlist from the last show:

2007 June 13

Peter Br?tzmann Sextet, "Fiddle-Faddle," More Nipples (1969) [Atavistic, 2003]
John Butcher & Gino Robair, "Fid," New Oakland Burr [Rastascan, 2004]
Weasel Walter, "Lobotomy While You Wait," Early Recordings 1988-91
[Savage Land, 2007]
[background music] Weasel Walter, "The Stomp," Early Recordings
1988-91 [Savage Land, 2007]

Crank Sturgeon, "gilituz-n-gha," Novasak/Crank Sturgeon [Swamp of Pus, 2007]
Coil, "Solar Lodge," Scatology [Some Bizzare, 1984]
Plotkin/Wyskida, #4, Live WFMU March 24 2007 [self-released, 2007]

Glenn Branca, "Indeterminate Activity of Resultant Masses (1981),"
Indeterminate Activity of Resultant Masses [Atavistic, 2007]
Dielectric Field Recording All Stars, "The Ultimate Sacrifice," "Penal
Code Section 409," & "There.," RE:record [Dielectric, 2007]
Mindflayer, "Netherworld Bike Patrol C.H.A.O.S.," Expedition to the
Harrier Peaks [Corleone, 2007]

Loachfillet, "Finger Basket Disposal," Cut Throat Rogues [Fish Pies, 2006]
Wolf Eyes, "Human Animal," Human Animal [Sub Pop, 2006]
Can't "Homesick," various - Zum Audio Vol. III [Zum, 2006]
16 Bitch Pile-up, "He began to stir," Bury Me Deep [Troniks, 2007]

BBC Symphony Orchetra, "Cosi Fan Tutte - Overture (Mozart)" [RCA Victor]
Christian Weber, "Camping Light Night," 3 Suits and a Violin [Hatology, 2007]
Gowns, "Mercy Springs," Red State [Cardboard, 2007]
Sword Heaven, "Intro - Tongues," Live at Little Brothers [Cut
Hands/Little Miracles, 2007]

Core of the Coalman, "New Conifers," Spirograph/End Grain [self-released, 2006]
Beck, "I Get Lonesome," One Foot in the Grave [K, 1994]
Aaron Siegel, #1-6, The Cabinet [Longbox, 2006]
Bob Ostertag, #1-2, Like a Melody, No Bitterness [My Very Own Record
Label, 1997]

KK Null, "0957," Fertile [Touch, 2007]
Oaxacan, "Tulum," various - Crows of the Worls vol. 1 [Last Visible Dog, 2007]
Steuart Liebig/Minim, "The Cherry Blossom Is Only Perfect When It's
Falling from the Tree," Sulphur [pfMentum, 2007]
Partisan, "Line of Flight," Line Of Flight/Panopticon Cassingle [Sanitary, 2006]
Johann Johannsson, "Tu non mi perderai mai," various - Touch 25 [Touch, 2006]

Yi Chuhwan, Kim Wolha & NCKTPA, "Kagok T'aep'yongga - Song of Great
Peace," various - Traditional Korean Music [Buda, 1997]
Burzum, "Dunkelheit," Filosofem [Misanthropy, 1995]
Douglas Lilburn, "Three Inscapes (#3)," Electro-acoustic Works [Atoll, 2004]

Graveland, "The Gates to the Kingdom of Darkness," The Celtic Winter
[No Colors, 1996]
Ozzy Osbourne, "Mr. Crowley," Blizzard of Ozz [Jet, 1980]
John Wiese, #11-32, Magical Crystal Blah volume 3 [Helicopter, 2006]
Brad Fiedel, "Reese Chased," THe Terminator Soundtrack [1984]


(please contact me if you have corrections to the listed information)

http://heule.us/breakthrough/

From tjohns at mills.edu  Tue Jul  3 21:42:25 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Tue,  3 Jul 2007 21:42:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <0F15EA9F-0B11-4DFD-9D06-5145B05A6A00@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <C2B02915.1E58F%21grand@21grand.org>
	<1183508678.468ae8c63a989@webmail.mills.edu>
	<0F15EA9F-0B11-4DFD-9D06-5145B05A6A00@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <1183524145.468b253127109@webmail.mills.edu>

Well, technically speaking, I never actually said that I "heart"
bitches... or at least in the context where bitches is implied to mean
a certain fusion-esque album circa 1970. what i said was that it had a
lasting impression on me back in the wayback. a slight difference, but
one to point out nonetheless.

case in point - another album that had a lasting impression on yrs truly
was merzbow's animal magnetism - a great disc but i dont think i can
actually say that i love it... or that ive heard it more than... twice?

scientology... uhm... uhhhh.... what?

jeez, i try to suggest that we try to play nice and y'all accuse me of
diggin both bitches and l.ron...?

...strange.

Quoting Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com>:

>
> On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Travis C. Johns wrote:
>
> > ... god, I really am becoming a fucking hippy, arent i...
>
> - That would explain the love Bitches Brew.
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From letucepry at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  3 22:24:58 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Boots Randolf
Message-ID: <653719.80904.qm@web50303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hell, 
what are the nekked ladies on Benny Hill going to bounce up and down to now???


lettuce



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2007 3:09:49 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Boots Randolf


Not new music, but Boots was hella cool...
PG


Sax player Boots Randolph dead at 80

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Boots Randolph, whose spirited saxophone
playing on songs like "Yakety Sax" made him one of Nashville's top
musicians, died Tuesday. He was 80. Randolph suffered a cerebral
hemorrhage June 25 and had been hospitalized in a coma. He was taken off
a respirator earlier Tuesday, said Betty Hofer, a publicist and
spokeswoman for the family. Randolph played regularly in Nashville
nightclubs for 30 years, becoming a tourist draw for the city much like
Wayne Newton in Las Vegas and Pete Fountain in New Orleans. He recorded
more than 40 albums and spent 15 years touring with the Festival of
Music, teaming with fellow instrumentalists Chet Atkins and Floyd
Cramer. As a session musician, he played on Elvis Presley's "Return to
Sender," Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman," Brenda Lee's "Rockin' Round
the Christmas Tree" and "I'm Sorry," REO Speedwagon's "Little Queenie,"
Al Hirt's "Java" and other songs including ones by Buddy Holly and
Johnny Cash. In 1963 he had his biggest solo hit, "Yakety Sax," which he
wrote.

His final recording was on the Zoho label

Boots Randolph A Whole New Ballgame Zoho Music 200706 Street Date: June
12, 2007 Boots Randolph tenor sax, Roddy Smith guitars, Steve Willets
piano, Tim Smith bass, Ray Von Rotz drums & percussion, Jason Webb -
keyboard strings, Mark Stallings - Hammond B 3

http://www.zohomusic.com/

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul  3 23:11:17 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:11:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <1a1c43e4ae4580bda9df5c6a62310d4a@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:

> . . . pissing matches! I live for them ... well ok, I also enjoy 
> showers

Ooooh. . . off topic, but SO titillating!


From slusser at pixar.com  Tue Jul  3 23:26:38 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:26:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech
In-Reply-To: <1a1c43e4ae4580bda9df5c6a62310d4a@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C2B038E1.1E596%21grand@21grand.org>
	<1a1c43e4ae4580bda9df5c6a62310d4a@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <3BF7E8D2-E3E0-4929-9EE0-A7CF36658564@pixar.com>

On Jul 3, 2007, at 11:11 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

> On Jul 3, 2007, at 5:33 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:
>
>> . . . pissing matches! I live for them ... well ok, I also enjoy
>> showers
>
> Ooooh. . . off topic, but SO titillating!

...as in golden showers?

(must be that PornOrchestra rubbing off on me...
                   ...which is another horrifying thought)

From slusser at pixar.com  Wed Jul  4 00:04:51 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 00:04:51 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] beech's brew
In-Reply-To: <001701c7bdbf$af47ccf0$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <001701c7bdbf$af47ccf0$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <2035E323-726E-4BD0-8F42-58A2ADA3EA26@pixar.com>

On Jul 3, 2007, at 3:15 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of dmichalak
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] beech
>
> Isn't there a local group called Bitches Brew? Ezra Gale, Slusser on
> electronics + others? D.
>
> PG:
> There is. I'm on Ezra's mailing list - and I see the gig notices.  
> But I
> haven't seen one for a while. Are you still in operation Mr. Slusser?

The group officially called it quits years ago, but keeps getting gigs
here and there, because they made some friends along the way.  It
started upstairs in the club on the corner across from Slim's on 11th
St. that I can't recall just now.  My friends Jack Chandler and Ken  
Kearny
were in it, and they kept asking me down to fill the horn section.  Ezra
was on guitar then, with Mitch Marcus on Rhodes and tenor.  This was
like 3 trumpet players before the current one, "Jab", who co-leads with
Ezra.  When Mitch quit, I became the keyboard player, and they welcomed
the Slussomatic and my sick samples.  One of the percussionists, John
Merrill, started processig 8-track tapes and radio, and we had an
incredible psychedelic stew for a while.  This was years before Kaiser's
Yo-Miles supergroup.  John Ingle and Aaron Bennett (and Vicky Grossi
Len Paterson, Scote and Ralph Carney) put in time with the group.
When they started getting a lot of gigs (Ezra has a touch for this) I  
had
to bow out.  I remained a reliable sub, since I knew the book.  Last  
time
we played (late this spring) Ara Anderson did a remarkable job  
filling in
on trumpet.

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Wed Jul  4 02:13:09 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 02:13:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] CJ Borosque is selling a guitar
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707040213r272f68d5id54152e414f9ae88@mail.gmail.com>

Hey everyone, my friend CJ Reaven Borosque is selling one of her
guitars. (Never seen her play this one, actually.) Here's the
description and a link to the craigslist ad with pictures. If
interested please drop her a line at cjreavenborosque at gmail.com.


Schecter Diamond Series C-1 Elite (Black)I am selling my Schecter
Guitar, because I want to buy other gear and I never play it. paid
$900 originally. Played a few times but not much. $600 OBO...black
with beautiful mother-of-pearl inlay.(includes case shown and stand,
no strap)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/364738731.html

From slusser at pixar.com  Wed Jul  4 10:42:08 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:42:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Ormandy humor
Message-ID: <A7CAFD95-4199-4444-9CCA-0903793A0866@pixar.com>

(Eugene Ormandy malaprop humor for your holiday
enjoyment, courtesy a bassist/memoirist of note.)

Bill Crow's Band Room

2007

July/August '07

by Bill Crow

This column originated in the February 1983 issue of
Allegro and has been going strong ever since, thanks
to the contributions of so many musicians who have
passed along their stories for everyone?s enjoyment.

There have been some requests for reprints of favorite
columns, so I will do that from time to time. Here?s
one from March 1987. These are remarks made by Eugene
Ormandy, while he was the maestro of the Philadelphia
Orchestra. His musicians enjoyed his use of the
English language so much that they began writing down
his comments. I selected the ones I liked best, and
arranged them as follows:

"Congratulations to each and every one of you for the
concert last night in New York, and vice versa."

"Who is sitting in that empty chair?"

"I?m conducting slowly because I don?t know the
tempo."

"I conduct faster so you can see my beat."

"I cannot give it to you, so watch me."

"I was trying to help you, so I was beating wrong."

"I can conduct better than I count."

"I guess you thought I was conducting, but I wasn?t."

"I purposely didn?t do anything, and you were all
behind."

"Why do you always insist on playing while I?m trying
to conduct?"

"Even when you are not playing, you are holding me
back."

"Don?t ever follow me, because I am difficult."

"It is not as difficult as I thought it was, but it is
harder than it is."

"The notes are right, but if I listened, they would be
wrong. "

"I wrote it the right way, so it was copied the wrong
way right. I mean the right way wrong."

"At every concert I?ve sensed a certain insecurity
about the tempo. It?s clearly marked 80... uh, 69."

"It is not together, but the ensemble is perfect."

"Watch me closely. Only one can spoil it."

"Somebody came too sooner."

"Start beforty-two."

"Start three bars before something."

"Start at B. No. Yes. No. Yes. No."

"Did you play? It sounded very good."

"Intonation is important, especially when it is cold."

"Beauty is less important than quality."

"If you don?t have it in your part, leave it out,
because there is enough missing already."

"Percussion a little louder." ("We don?t have
anything.") "That?s right, play it louder."

"More basses, because you are so far away."

"I need one more bass less."

"There are no woodwinds at number six." (The woodwinds
say they are at number 15.) "I know. That is why."

(To the tubist) "Long note? Yes. Make it seem short."

"Brass, stay down all summer."

"Don?t play louder, just give more."

"Accelerando means in tempo. Don?t rush."

"I don?t want to repeat this a hundred times. When you
see crescendo, it means p."

"The tempo remains pp."

"It?s difficult to remember when you haven?t played it
before."

"We can?t hear the balance yet, because the soloist is
still on the airplane."

"Please follow me, because I have to follow him, and
he isn?t here."

"Without him here, it is impossible to know how fast
he will play it, approximately."

"With us tonight is William Warfield, who is with us
tonight." "He is a wonderful man, and so is his wife."

"Bizet was a very young man when he composed this
symphony, so play it soft."

"Mahler wrote it as the third movement of his Fourth
Symphony. I mean the fourth movement of his First
Symphony. We play it third. The trumpet solo will be
played by our solo trumpet player. It?s named
?Blumine,? which has something to do with flowers."

"That?s the way Stravinsky was?-bup, bup, bup. The
poor guy?s dead now. Play it legato."

"Serkin was so sick he almost died for three days."

(On David Oistrach?s death): "I told him he?d have a
heart attack a year ago, but unfortunately he lived a
year longer."

(On Willy Knappel?s death): "Death is a terrible
thing. I don?t believe in it, myself."

"This is a very democratic organization, so let?s take
a vote. All those who disagree with me raise their
hands."

"It?s all very well to have principles, but when it
comes to money, you have to be flexible."

"Thank you for your cooperation, and vice versa."

"I mean what I meant."

"I never say what I mean, but I always manage to say
something similar."

"Let me explain what I do here. I don?t want to
confuse you any more than absolutely necessary."

"I don?t mean to make you nervous, but unfortunately I
have to."

"Relax. Don?t be nervous. My God, it?s the
Philadelphia Orchestra!"


web site is www.local802afm.org   clik band room  bill crow

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Wed Jul  4 11:02:54 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:02:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mathieu students
In-Reply-To: <A7CAFD95-4199-4444-9CCA-0903793A0866@pixar.com>
References: <A7CAFD95-4199-4444-9CCA-0903793A0866@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <6bec0eb41c86afd9b71db5ea56032177@matthewgoodheart.com>

I was just wonder who else out there has studied with Allaudin Mathieu- 
It was his 70th Birthday party yesterday- an interesting assortment of 
folks and a pretty broad legacy, a whole bunch of us played. . . I 
think Raskin and Slusser had a few lessons at one point, was curious 
who else. . .

mg


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Wed Jul  4 11:28:20 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:28:20 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mathieu students
In-Reply-To: <20070704111628.vomq8ybjacwos8sc@webmail.lmi.net>
References: <A7CAFD95-4199-4444-9CCA-0903793A0866@pixar.com>
	<6bec0eb41c86afd9b71db5ea56032177@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<20070704111628.vomq8ybjacwos8sc@webmail.lmi.net>
Message-ID: <8c7f6e9a0cd873669fa400472dec1d75@matthewgoodheart.com>

yes, also Van Morrison and Art Lande, was just curious who else 
locally. . . sorry I had forgotten about you!

mg


On Jul 4, 2007, at 11:16 AM, eneidi at lmi.net wrote:

> me, hal forman,, and dan shea of mahria carey, luther vandross, 
> santana, kenny g, placido domingo and many other pop music star fame
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>:
>
>> I was just wonder who else out there has studied with Allaudin 
>> Mathieu-
>> It was his 70th Birthday party yesterday- an interesting assortment of
>> folks and a pretty broad legacy, a whole bunch of us played. . . I
>> think Raskin and Slusser had a few lessons at one point, was curious
>> who else. . .
>>
>> mg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>


From slusser at pixar.com  Wed Jul  4 12:24:31 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:24:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mathieu students
In-Reply-To: <6bec0eb41c86afd9b71db5ea56032177@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <A7CAFD95-4199-4444-9CCA-0903793A0866@pixar.com>
	<6bec0eb41c86afd9b71db5ea56032177@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <38B795A0-97EA-4EBB-83F0-B04F22EEA56F@pixar.com>

On Jul 4, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:
> I was just wonder who else out there has studied with Allaudin  
> Mathieu-
> It was his 70th Birthday party yesterday- an interesting assortment of
> folks and a pretty broad legacy, a whole bunch of us played. . . I
> think Raskin and Slusser had a few lessons at one point, was curious
> who else. . .

Wish I had, though I kind of taught myself arranging by studying his
Standards In Silhouette album as a kid.  My friend Peter (not Paul)
Drescher was a student and I'm not sure how much I picked up from
him as well.  (I swapped Bill the original album cover for a signed copy
of the reissue.)

...yes, and Marco, indeed.

Can you recommend any of his writings that are available?

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Wed Jul  4 12:39:18 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:39:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mathieu students
In-Reply-To: <38B795A0-97EA-4EBB-83F0-B04F22EEA56F@pixar.com>
References: <A7CAFD95-4199-4444-9CCA-0903793A0866@pixar.com>
	<6bec0eb41c86afd9b71db5ea56032177@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<38B795A0-97EA-4EBB-83F0-B04F22EEA56F@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <adcae31ab1f84d109950fd887b5ebfdc@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Jul 4, 2007, at 12:24 PM, David Slusser wrote:

> Wish I had, though I kind of taught myself arranging by studying his
> Standards In Silhouette album as a kid.

Yeah, I especially dig Willow Weep for Me.

> Can you recommend any of his writings that are available?

Well, Harmonic Experience is really the best book on harmony that I 
know of. . . but perhaps you know that? You have to deal with a certain 
amount of New-Agey-ness, but the theory is "the shit;"   Puts the 
connections between Just Intonation and Equal Temperament in clear, 
accurate language. From there, Tenny, Partch, Lehrrdahl, etc. all 
become really clear. It also unintentionally debunks Shoenberg's "Chart 
of the Regions" (which was a great idea, but pretty arbitrary.)  The 
Listening Book is good for beginners and people who have never thought 
about sound or need to be liberated or something, and The Musical Life 
is okay, but I've heard some complain about its tone. . . I read it a 
long time ago.


mg


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul  4 15:32:16 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:32:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  beech blanket necronomicon
Message-ID: <C2B16E00.1E60A%21grand@21grand.org>

They also have it at Reel in Berkeley, and it's actually in the Scandinavian
section, as opposed to Lars Von Trier's Zentropa, which I've been looking
for there for months, and finally found last night in the cult section ...
not Scandinavian, not, as one might think, the Lars Von Trier section ...
it's still not on DVD yet.

Also, any leads on a local video store that has Costa-Gavras' "State of
Siege"? 

sl

PG:
Interesting sentiment...

Where did you find that? I remember seeing posters for it at the
Piedmont theater a few years ago, but then I never saw it arrive in the
theaters. Is it out now on DVD? I'm a fan of his work - especially
"Alice" and "Faust". The short films are cool too - totally innovative
and unique - but I like to see him work out on a longer narrative, which
is why I was so excited about Lunacy...


From suki at zoka.com  Wed Jul  4 19:40:11 2007
From: suki at zoka.com (Suki O'Kane)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:40:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Temporary (Rather) Home for Upright Piano Needed
Message-ID: <a0624080ac2b2072275ff@[192.168.0.3]>

Does anyone have space to store a piano for a, cough, spell?

I need to move it on Sunday July 8.

It's a tall upright, not conventionally playable at the moment, but 
could be within an hour, sans the effort of tuning.

Dimensions = 56" h x 62" w x 28" d

It is an item informally banked for future undeterminable moe! use, 
but if you don't have storage space, yet you do have an idea about 
using the piano in your own special way, please holler. No adoption 
fees.

Feel free to forward to likely suspects,
s



From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jul  5 00:25:36 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:25:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Temporary (Rather) Home for Upright Piano Needed
In-Reply-To: <a0624080ac2b2072275ff@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <005101c7bed5$ae80b310$4001a8c0@PG>

Let me ask the Waldorf school (where I work now) if they want another
piano (temporarily, I realize). It may be a real small staff, I may not
get the info I need quickly enough, so go with the first person that
bites...

Cheers,
PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Suki O'Kane
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 7:40 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: [NewMusic] Temporary (Rather) Home for Upright Piano Needed

Does anyone have space to store a piano for a, cough, spell?

I need to move it on Sunday July 8.

It's a tall upright, not conventionally playable at the moment, but 
could be within an hour, sans the effort of tuning.

Dimensions = 56" h x 62" w x 28" d

It is an item informally banked for future undeterminable moe! use, 
but if you don't have storage space, yet you do have an idea about 
using the piano in your own special way, please holler. No adoption 
fees.

Feel free to forward to likely suspects,
s


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From cypod25 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  5 16:38:25 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:38:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Geno Robair from the Meridian Gallery Archives
Message-ID: <473c28030707051638g7f24329ayc4196f88e16328ef@mail.gmail.com>

To Celebrate the Nations Independants, Meridian Gallery Presents the 5th
podcast of live concerts from the Meridian archives. This episode features:

Gino Robair

I Norton - A lecture/demonstration

September 14, 2005

Meridian Gallery


Tom Duff as Norton I - voice and banjo

Aurora Josephson as Minnie Wakeman - voice

Matt Ingalls - clarinet

Tom Bickley - recorders

Aki Shinomiya - visuals

Gino Robair - conductor


You can listen to the Meridian Gallery podcast @
http://meridiangallery.org/MGMusic.htm

or subscribe via the itunes music store.


If you would like to be feature on future installment, simple have played a
recorded concert in the Meridian Gallery series. Then send me and email
stating we may broadcast your original works.

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sun Jul  8 11:30:03 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:30:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Newmusic board games tonight
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707081130l3f422eabme870a3f6e04b5f80@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm having a few folks over for board games tonight - 7ish to 10ish. All new
music folks so we can listen to weird music without anyone complaining.
We'll order some delivery food and play some fun stuff. My favorites that I
have:

Settlers of Catan
Wise and Otherwise
Apples to Apples

Some of you probably haven't heard of the first 3. Go ahead and look 'em up
on Wikipedia. Feel free to bring other games, ipods and such.

RSVPing is nice, but so are last minute people.

Matt Davignon
265 Vernon St., #201
Oakland, 94610
510-459-1507

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sun Jul  8 11:31:03 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:31:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Newmusic board games tonight
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707081130l3f422eabme870a3f6e04b5f80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0707081130l3f422eabme870a3f6e04b5f80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707081131k74fc6aa7m5b684f45283b650e@mail.gmail.com>

Doh - I forgot to mention the key part. Yes, I'm having a few folks over for
board games tonight, *and I'd like to invite anyone else who's interested.*

On 7/8/07, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm having a few folks over for board games tonight - 7ish to 10ish. All
> new music folks so we can listen to weird music without anyone complaining.
> We'll order some delivery food and play some fun stuff. My favorites that I
> have:
>
> Settlers of Catan
> Wise and Otherwise
> Apples to Apples
>
> Some of you probably haven't heard of the first 3. Go ahead and look 'em
> up on Wikipedia. Feel free to bring other games, ipods and such.
>
> RSVPing is nice, but so are last minute people.
>
> Matt Davignon
> 265 Vernon St., #201
> Oakland, 94610
> 510-459-1507
>

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul  8 11:33:14 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:33:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Newmusic board games tonight
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707081131k74fc6aa7m5b684f45283b650e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <725300.18818.qm@web58713.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I'm down! I'll even bring FREE issue of WIRE magazine and a few CD's to those who;s interested once you're (and myself, of course) there.

-M!


Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote: Doh - I forgot to mention the key part. Yes, I'm having a few folks over for
board games tonight, *and I'd like to invite anyone else who's interested.*

On 7/8/07, Matt Davignon  wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm having a few folks over for board games tonight - 7ish to 10ish. All
> new music folks so we can listen to weird music without anyone complaining.
> We'll order some delivery food and play some fun stuff. My favorites that I
> have:
>
> Settlers of Catan
> Wise and Otherwise
> Apples to Apples
>
> Some of you probably haven't heard of the first 3. Go ahead and look 'em
> up on Wikipedia. Feel free to bring other games, ipods and such.
>
> RSVPing is nice, but so are last minute people.
>
> Matt Davignon
> 265 Vernon St., #201
> Oakland, 94610
> 510-459-1507
>
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


 
---------------------------------
Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast 
 with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Sun Jul  8 12:38:05 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:38:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Newmusic board games tonight
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707081131k74fc6aa7m5b684f45283b650e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0707081130l3f422eabme870a3f6e04b5f80@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0707081131k74fc6aa7m5b684f45283b650e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707081238w4ccfa722ra042b8906885b2ca@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be there!
P.

On 7/8/07, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Doh - I forgot to mention the key part. Yes, I'm having a few folks over for
> board games tonight, *and I'd like to invite anyone else who's interested.*
>
> On 7/8/07, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I'm having a few folks over for board games tonight - 7ish to 10ish. All
> > new music folks so we can listen to weird music without anyone complaining.
> > We'll order some delivery food and play some fun stuff. My favorites that I
> > have:
> >
> > Settlers of Catan
> > Wise and Otherwise
> > Apples to Apples
> >
> > Some of you probably haven't heard of the first 3. Go ahead and look 'em
> > up on Wikipedia. Feel free to bring other games, ipods and such.
> >
> > RSVPing is nice, but so are last minute people.
> >
> > Matt Davignon
> > 265 Vernon St., #201
> > Oakland, 94610
> > 510-459-1507
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From tbickley at metatronpress.com  Sun Jul  8 22:35:29 2007
From: tbickley at metatronpress.com (Tom Bickley)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:35:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Kudos to Cycle Play performers
Message-ID: <179A5950-91C9-427E-BB7B-D195F1868659@metatronpress.com>

Dear (BA)newmusic readers,

Yesterday Nancy and I attended the astonishingly wonderful Theatre of  
Yugen's  marathon production "The Cycle Plays" at Theatre Artaud. The  
performances began at 10 am and ended at 8 pm. There is a lot of  
information about it at http://www.theatreofyugen.org/070707.html

Noh theater feels very much akin to opera to me (moreso than to other  
western theatrical genres). The musical / sound design component(s)  
provide a major part of the experience for both audience and  
performers. The musicians for the Cycle Plays provided exceptionally  
excellent work. Virtually everyone in the Yugen Orchestra is a member  
of our experimental music scene, and I was just delighted by the  
beauty, poignancy and impact of their work. As adept as these folks  
are at "free" improve, I was really impressed with their work within  
these structures. The scores for the plays constitute wonderful  
chamber music that can also stand on its own. So, here's the list:

Suki O'Kane and Allen Whitman (lead co-composers)
Liz Allbee
Larnie Fox
Lynn Murdock
Dan Plonsey
Marc Bolin
Jonathan Segel
John Shiurba
Moe! Staiano
Jason Stamberger
Lexa Walsh

vocal work by the actor/dancer/cast members was terrific too,  
especially from Sheila Berotti, Max, Jubilith Moore, John Oglevee,  
Stephen Siegel, Lluis Valle, and Libby Zilber.

Thank you all! (and, what was the song the cast sang as an encore?)

Pax, -Tom (and Nancy)

---------------------
Tom Bickley, tbickley at metatronpress.com
http://www.metatronpress.com/artists/tbickley/
http://www.myspace.com/tbickley

"It is not enough to decorate the world, the point is to influence  
it." - Cornelius Cardew



From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  9 00:06:07 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 00:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Newmusic board games tonight
Message-ID: <696313.60616.qm@web50306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

SOB, Apples to Apples ROCKS!!! (Car in Shop, check E-mail Late....)


lettuce...


----- Original Message ----
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 8, 2007 11:30:03 AM
Subject: [NewMusic] Newmusic board games tonight


Hi everyone,

I'm having a few folks over for board games tonight - 7ish to 10ish. All new
music folks so we can listen to weird music without anyone complaining.
We'll order some delivery food and play some fun stuff. My favorites that I
have:

Settlers of Catan
Wise and Otherwise
Apples to Apples

Some of you probably haven't heard of the first 3. Go ahead and look 'em up
on Wikipedia. Feel free to bring other games, ipods and such.

RSVPing is nice, but so are last minute people.

Matt Davignon
265 Vernon St., #201
Oakland, 94610
510-459-1507
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From shiurba at pacbell.net  Mon Jul  9 09:16:16 2007
From: shiurba at pacbell.net (John Shiurba)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:16:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Feldman 2nd string quartet on DVD
Message-ID: <BB7333C4-94AE-4CDD-AC8F-CB2C9CBB3AF5@pacbell.net>

does anyone have the DVD version of Feldman's second string quartet?
I have a technical question, please contact me off list

From grobair at emusician.com  Mon Jul  9 18:25:07 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:25:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Kanoko Nishi email?
Message-ID: <C2B82E03.362F%grobair@emusician.com>

Hey,
Can someone send me an email addy for Kanoko off list? I can't seem to find
it....
Cheers,
g


From grobair at emusician.com  Mon Jul  9 18:36:53 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:36:53 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Nishi email found, thanks
Message-ID: <C2B830C5.3638%grobair@emusician.com>

I'm all set now. Thanks!
g


From suki at zoka.com  Mon Jul  9 19:31:32 2007
From: suki at zoka.com (Suki O'Kane)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:31:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Kudos to Cycle Play performers
In-Reply-To: <179A5950-91C9-427E-BB7B-D195F1868659@metatronpress.com>
References: <179A5950-91C9-427E-BB7B-D195F1868659@metatronpress.com>
Message-ID: <a06240800c2b89c2708c8@[192.168.0.3]>

Hey thanks, Tom.

My perspective is myopic, but I do feel a shared vocabulary of 
improvisation -- or a shared listening skill? -- was a key component 
in realizing the work.

The closing number was written in the Noh tradition of the Felicitous 
Song: a palette cleanser usually sung by the chorus at the end of a 
cycle, but adapted for our, erm, North American sensibilities into a 
pop confection sung by the crowd of Cycle Plays artists (with an 
outstanding oboe solo by the inimitable D. Plonsey).

I did hear someone humming it as they left the theater. (One of many) 
Mission (s) accomplished.

-s


At 10:35 PM -0700 7/8/07, Tom Bickley wrote:
>Dear (BA)newmusic readers,
>
>Yesterday Nancy and I attended the astonishingly wonderful Theatre of 
>Yugen's  marathon production "The Cycle Plays" at Theatre Artaud. The 
>performances began at 10 am and ended at 8 pm. There is a lot of 
>information about it at http://www.theatreofyugen.org/070707.html
>
>Noh theater feels very much akin to opera to me (moreso than to other 
>western theatrical genres). The musical / sound design component(s) 
>provide a major part of the experience for both audience and 
>performers. The musicians for the Cycle Plays provided exceptionally 
>excellent work. Virtually everyone in the Yugen Orchestra is a member 
>of our experimental music scene, and I was just delighted by the 
>beauty, poignancy and impact of their work. As adept as these folks 
>are at "free" improve, I was really impressed with their work within 
>these structures. The scores for the plays constitute wonderful
>chamber music that can also stand on its own.
>
><snip>
>
>(and, what was the song the cast sang as an encore?)
>
>


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Mon Jul  9 19:38:11 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:38:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Kudos to Cycle Play performers
In-Reply-To: <179A5950-91C9-427E-BB7B-D195F1868659@metatronpress.com>
References: <179A5950-91C9-427E-BB7B-D195F1868659@metatronpress.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707091938m33f15878s8dd16c36729dccb6@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Tom.

I put the 7/7/07 event on my calendar a year ago when
Suki first told me about it, and it was well worth the wait and the commitment
of a whole Saturday to immersion in the Cycle Plays. :)

The Warrior Play and the Demon Play were my favorites.

P.

On 7/8/07, Tom Bickley <tbickley at metatronpress.com> wrote:
> Dear (BA)newmusic readers,
>
> Yesterday Nancy and I attended the astonishingly wonderful Theatre of
> Yugen's  marathon production "The Cycle Plays" at Theatre Artaud. The
> performances began at 10 am and ended at 8 pm. There is a lot of
> information about it at http://www.theatreofyugen.org/070707.html
>
> Noh theater feels very much akin to opera to me (moreso than to other
> western theatrical genres). The musical / sound design component(s)
> provide a major part of the experience for both audience and
> performers. The musicians for the Cycle Plays provided exceptionally
> excellent work. Virtually everyone in the Yugen Orchestra is a member
> of our experimental music scene, and I was just delighted by the
> beauty, poignancy and impact of their work. As adept as these folks
> are at "free" improve, I was really impressed with their work within
> these structures. The scores for the plays constitute wonderful
> chamber music that can also stand on its own. So, here's the list:
>
> Suki O'Kane and Allen Whitman (lead co-composers)
> Liz Allbee
> Larnie Fox
> Lynn Murdock
> Dan Plonsey
> Marc Bolin
> Jonathan Segel
> John Shiurba
> Moe! Staiano
> Jason Stamberger
> Lexa Walsh
>
> vocal work by the actor/dancer/cast members was terrific too,
> especially from Sheila Berotti, Max, Jubilith Moore, John Oglevee,
> Stephen Siegel, Lluis Valle, and Libby Zilber.
>
> Thank you all! (and, what was the song the cast sang as an encore?)
>
> Pax, -Tom (and Nancy)
>
> ---------------------
> Tom Bickley, tbickley at metatronpress.com
> http://www.metatronpress.com/artists/tbickley/
> http://www.myspace.com/tbickley
>
> "It is not enough to decorate the world, the point is to influence
> it." - Cornelius Cardew
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From amyawurtz at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 10 04:01:46 2007
From: amyawurtz at hotmail.com (amy wurtz)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:01:46 +0000
Subject: [NewMusic] Help finding performers in SF Bay Area
Message-ID: <BAY122-F40D085B1230C1B34B14CD4A5050@phx.gbl>

Hello Colleagues!

I hope everyone is having an enjoyable summer.

This is my first posting to the list, and I am glad to see such a service 
exists!

In February 2007, I conducted the world premiere of my piece, "Message from 
the Soul," for Chorus, 5 Soloists, Chamber Orchestra, and Speaker, in 
D?sseldorf, Germany. The premiere was a big success, and we are now planning 
further performances in Europe, and most importantly, a series of 
performances in California in May 2008.

As I live in Germany, I am having a terrible time finding the right 
performers, and wonder if anyone can help me out?

I need 30 San Francisco/Bay Area-based performers for May!  (and can pay 
them!)

I would love to get some names/email addresses/telephone numbers from you, 
or, please do forward this email to anyone you think might be interested.  
The list of what we need is found below, and more information on the 
project/music can be found at www.msgsoul.com.

Thanks in advance for your help, I really appreciate it!

Amy Wurtz

ps.  we also desperately need a tenor and a bass in G?teborg, Sweden, if 
anyone has any sugggestions there, too. . .

PERFORMERS NEEDED:

Speaker

Soloists:

Soprano
Mezzo-Soprano
Tenor
Baritone
Bass

Solo Octet Singers:

Soprano (2)
Alto (2)
Tenor (2)
Bass (2)

Orchestra:

Violin (4)
Viola (2)
Violoncello (2)
Flute (1)
Piano (1)
Percussion (standard Classical) (4)

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jul 12 00:52:43 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:52:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Slusser jizz relic
Message-ID: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com>

http://jizzrelics.blogspot.com/search/label/slusser


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From grobair at emusician.com  Thu Jul 12 16:33:37 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:33:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Improv dancers? Improv Butoh dancer?
Message-ID: <C2BC0861.38B4%grobair@emusician.com>

Hey gang,
Can anyone suggest a contact for a dancer who improvises? Contact improv or
Butoh-stylee would be preferred.
Feel free to email me personally.


Thanks,
g


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 12 21:07:38 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:07:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] SF Electronic Music Festival seeks volunteers
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707122107x6d4404a0o31e9f8d0a88c8f18@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

We're seeking volunteers for the San Francisco Electronic Music festival
this year, which will be held from Sept 5 - 9 at Theatre Artaud. The
festival will include performances by David Behrmann, Annea Lockwood, Tim
Hecker, Fred Frith, Murcof, Zoe Keating, MaryClare Brzytwa, Kadet Kuhne, and
a slew of others.

We'll need volunteers mostly for stuff during the week of the festival,
especially dismantling things after the show on Sunday night. Other tasks
will include helping with setup, helping with the door/concessions during
the festival, help with folding/distributing posters (once they're made),
perhaps picking up an out-of-town performer or two at the airport and/or
helping them get to the venue, obtaining liquids and solids for people to
consume at the event, accepting blame for everything (just kidding), stuff
like that.

Please let me know. For each night volunteered at the festival, we'll get
you a free ticket for a different night.

Matt Davignon
http://www.sfemf.org/sfemf2007.html

From laoze at myrealbox.com  Thu Jul 12 23:45:38 2007
From: laoze at myrealbox.com (Bob Marsh)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 23:45:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce
Message-ID: <1184309138.c7ea823claoze@myrealbox.com>

Most excellent set based on Steve Lacy's Tips at the Luggage Store.
Good location for the instrumentation. Aurora's voice seems more powerful than ever and she held her own with two sax players without a mic.
A lot of people wound up listening - the Luggage Store was packed for the first set and many of them stayed for the Lacy piece and were probably greatly edified.
475 43rd Street
Richmond, CA 94805
510-236-2595 home  510-932-9268 cell
http://www.edgetonerecords.com/marsh.html



From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 13 10:20:58 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:20:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce
In-Reply-To: <1184309138.c7ea823claoze@myrealbox.com>
References: <1184309138.c7ea823claoze@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <718C868B-0F12-4ACC-B842-E5DFCED3A38A@balancepointacoustics.com>

Yeah, I really would have loved to see it. Now that they learned the  
piece, Hopefully they will do it a few times around here.

Damon

On Jul 12, 2007, at 11:45 PM, Bob Marsh wrote:

> Most excellent set based on Steve Lacy's Tips at the Luggage Store.
> Good location for the instrumentation. Aurora's voice seems more  
> powerful than ever and she held her own with two sax players  
> without a mic.
> A lot of people wound up listening - the Luggage Store was packed  
> for the first set and many of them stayed for the Lacy piece and  
> were probably greatly edified.
> 475 43rd Street
> Richmond, CA 94805
> 510-236-2595 home  510-932-9268 cell
> http://www.edgetonerecords.com/marsh.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From slusser at pixar.com  Fri Jul 13 10:25:51 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:25:51 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Slusser jizz relic
In-Reply-To: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>

Jizz Relic...

...that's me.

What'll it cost me to hear a bootleg of myself?

On Jul 12, 2007, at 12:52 AM, Damon Smith wrote:

> http://jizzrelics.blogspot.com/search/label/slusser
>
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 13 10:32:17 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:32:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Slusser jizz relic
In-Reply-To: <B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>
References: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <57D13F30-F12C-4312-A21F-03677F228B65@balancepointacoustics.com>

If you go the for the free download option, you just have to wait  
2hrs or or so between downloads, but you can get a whole album at once.
On Jul 13, 2007, at 10:25 AM, David Slusser wrote:

> Jizz Relic...
>
> ...that's me.
>
> What'll it cost me to hear a bootleg of myself?
>
> On Jul 12, 2007, at 12:52 AM, Damon Smith wrote:
>
>> http://jizzrelics.blogspot.com/search/label/slusser
>>
>>
>> Damon Smith
>>
>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 13 11:25:57 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:25:57 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Beehive in Boston
In-Reply-To: <B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7c57b$4208a2e0$4001a8c0@PG>

Here's an article on The Beehive in Boston - a new place where they are
having live performance. If you're heading out there and looking for a
gig (Boston can be a difficult place to land one), this might be worth
checking out.

http://www.boston.com/ae/events/articles/2007/07/12/the_place_to_be_over
_30/

Cheers,
PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com




From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 13 11:32:39 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:32:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] SF Electronic Music Festival seeks volunteers
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707122107x6d4404a0o31e9f8d0a88c8f18@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c7c57c$32112730$4001a8c0@PG>

Matt,

Put me down for one night - how about opening night?
PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Davignon
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:08 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: [NewMusic] SF Electronic Music Festival seeks volunteers

Hi everyone,

We're seeking volunteers for the San Francisco Electronic Music festival
this year, which will be held from Sept 5 - 9 at Theatre Artaud. The
festival will include performances by David Behrmann, Annea Lockwood,
Tim
Hecker, Fred Frith, Murcof, Zoe Keating, MaryClare Brzytwa, Kadet Kuhne,
and
a slew of others.

We'll need volunteers mostly for stuff during the week of the festival,
especially dismantling things after the show on Sunday night. Other
tasks
will include helping with setup, helping with the door/concessions
during
the festival, help with folding/distributing posters (once they're
made),
perhaps picking up an out-of-town performer or two at the airport and/or
helping them get to the venue, obtaining liquids and solids for people
to
consume at the event, accepting blame for everything (just kidding),
stuff
like that.

Please let me know. For each night volunteered at the festival, we'll
get
you a free ticket for a different night.

Matt Davignon
http://www.sfemf.org/sfemf2007.html
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 13 12:47:21 2007
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:47:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce
References: <1184309138.c7ea823claoze@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <000701c7c586$a0e12e30$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

Super show, went home really inspired.
The addition of improvised vocals to the pieces was great. D.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Marsh" <laoze at myrealbox.com>
To: <ba-newmus at eartha.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:45 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce


> Most excellent set based on Steve Lacy's Tips at the Luggage Store.
> Good location for the instrumentation. Aurora's voice seems more powerful 
> than ever and she held her own with two sax players without a mic.
> A lot of people wound up listening - the Luggage Store was packed for the 
> first set and many of them stayed for the Lacy piece and were probably 
> greatly edified.
> 475 43rd Street
> Richmond, CA 94805
> 510-236-2595 home  510-932-9268 cell
> http://www.edgetonerecords.com/marsh.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/897 - Release Date: 7/11/2007 
> 9:57 PM
>
> 


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 13 13:53:31 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:53:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce
In-Reply-To: <000701c7c586$a0e12e30$6501a8c0@eyefull01>
Message-ID: <000301c7c58f$dfce4160$4001a8c0@PG>

bListers,

Thanks to Bob and David for the kind words, and thanks for coming out to
hear us.

We had a good time - I was SHOCKED to see how many people were in
attendance. I don't think I've ever seen that many people at the LSG...

We'll be playing the work again in October on a bill with one of Larry
Ochs' trios. 

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of dmichalak
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:47 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce

Super show, went home really inspired.
The addition of improvised vocals to the pieces was great. D.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Marsh" <laoze at myrealbox.com>
To: <ba-newmus at eartha.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:45 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Philip, Aurora, Bruce


> Most excellent set based on Steve Lacy's Tips at the Luggage Store.
> Good location for the instrumentation. Aurora's voice seems more
powerful 
> than ever and she held her own with two sax players without a mic.
> A lot of people wound up listening - the Luggage Store was packed for
the 
> first set and many of them stayed for the Lacy piece and were probably

> greatly edified.
> 475 43rd Street
> Richmond, CA 94805
> 510-236-2595 home  510-932-9268 cell
> http://www.edgetonerecords.com/marsh.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/897 - Release Date:
7/11/2007 
> 9:57 PM
>
> 

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pamelaz at pamelaz.com  Mon Jul 16 01:35:35 2007
From: pamelaz at pamelaz.com (Pamela Z)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:35:35 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Improv dancers? Improv Butoh dancer?
In-Reply-To: <C2BC0861.38B4%grobair@emusician.com>
References: <C2BC0861.38B4%grobair@emusician.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c2c0de2c8b48@[10.0.1.198]>

Kinji Hayashi is brilliant.

Also Paige Sorvillo.

pz

>Hey gang,
>Can anyone suggest a contact for a dancer who improvises? Contact improv or
>Butoh-stylee would be preferred.
>Feel free to email me personally.
>
>
>Thanks,
>g
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


-- 
Pamela Z
Composer/Performer

Contact info:

Telephone: 415.861.EARS (415.861.3277)
Mobile: 415.5PAMELA (415.572.6352) 
FAX: 415.861.FAKS (415.861.3257)
(I forward my land line to my mobile phone when I'm travelling)

pamelaz at pamelaz.com
http://www.pamelaz.com
http://www.myspace.com/pamelazcomposer

Skype: pamelazed   AIM: pamelazdotcom

Snail Mail:
Pamela Z Productions
540 Alabama Street Studio 213
San Francisco, CA 94110, USA

shipping address (for packages larger than a 10" x 13" envelope):
Pamela Z  2440 Sixteenth Street  PMB #171, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA

Pamela Z's CD "A Delay is Better" on the Starkland label is now 
available at http://www.amazon.com, http://www.starkland.com, and in 
stores near you.
......................................................................................................

From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 16 08:41:24 2007
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:41:24 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
References: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com><B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>
	<57D13F30-F12C-4312-A21F-03677F228B65@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <004801c7c7bf$c4407cb0$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music & food 
& friends.

Doctor Bob 


From polly.moller at gmail.com  Mon Jul 16 08:59:16 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:59:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <004801c7c7bf$c4407cb0$6501a8c0@eyefull01>
References: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>
	<57D13F30-F12C-4312-A21F-03677F228B65@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<004801c7c7bf$c4407cb0$6501a8c0@eyefull01>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707160859i3f580ac6na5d4497fb642e3bf@mail.gmail.com>

Many thanks to Tom and the crew from me and Grant and Jim.
It was a long wonderful day.
:)
P.

On 7/16/07, dmichalak <dmichalak at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music & food
> & friends.
>
> Doctor Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Jul 16 10:37:52 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:37:52 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707160859i3f580ac6na5d4497fb642e3bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B530901D-F139-4F66-B08E-053F54D8D5A7@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<B09EFEEA-7388-4A69-AAB7-DA61934952E2@pixar.com>
	<57D13F30-F12C-4312-A21F-03677F228B65@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<004801c7c7bf$c4407cb0$6501a8c0@eyefull01>
	<2eb068d40707160859i3f580ac6na5d4497fb642e3bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25E76E74-E8D9-4550-B575-2744EF390897@pixar.com>

I add my thanks to Tom Duff (& family), Darren & Sarah
& 21Grand ground crew, and Matt Ingalls, who provided
a great net stream.  If you didn't listen in, you missed
something.  Even if you weren't in line stylistically with
every group (and I admit it was a stretch), the energy of
a community that can easily put out 10 hours of non-stop
(mostly?) improvised music across the globe was palpable.

It was even better to be there with everyone on such a
nice day.  I was in the opening group with the rest of the
Transbay "circulation desk" - hung a bit, then caught
Recursive Heretics, Polly Moller, and the Cardew Choir on
the webcast, hung some more, played late afternoon, then
listened more to the webcast till about 7, when I had to
get to a gig in the city.  How did the rest of the evening go?

Back to the webcast...not sure if Matt was also feeding the PA
direct, or if it was all just the stereo microphone - but it was
apparent that all these groups had very nice internal dynamics.
In other words - they mix themselves quite well without a
"sound man"....musicians can proportion themselves in this
music - in fact they must.

From liz_abet at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 16 12:18:12 2007
From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (liz allbee)
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:18:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] delay foray...
Message-ID: <715855.35937.qm@web32801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey y'all.
Does anyone have a delay/sampler they could part with
just for the week? (ie - couldja loan it to me til
sunday?!)

A line6 would be fine, but if anyone has a rackmount
with some good delay time that would be fantastic. hit
me offlist:
liz_abet at yahoo.com

thanks!



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 17 00:32:55 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707160859i3f580ac6na5d4497fb642e3bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <961548.71604.qm@web58715.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Definately!
   
  Despite my sloppy playing that I still feel crappy about (the others did well, however), it was a nice event. It's great to have Tom do this every year and to have Sarah and Darren to host it, it is something to not be taken granted for much. It's truely a great, comminutive event. Keep it up. 
   
  -M!
  

Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
  Many thanks to Tom and the crew from me and Grant and Jim.
It was a long wonderful day.
:)
P.

On 7/16/07, dmichalak wrote:
> Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music & food
> & friends.
>
> Doctor Bob
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


 
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 17 01:03:16 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:03:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <961548.71604.qm@web58715.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7c848$ef18f820$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Moe! Staiano
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07

Definately!
   
Despite my sloppy playing that I still feel crappy about (the others did
well, however), it was a nice event. It's great to have Tom do this
every year and to have Sarah and Darren to host it, it is something to
not be taken granted for much. It's truely a great, comminutive event.
Keep it up. 
   
  -M!
  
PG:
I'm sure Moe! was much more amazing than he's letting on - Mute
Socialite is a great group, and I can't imagine Moe! not rocking the
house.
 
Slusser wondered how the end of the day went. I was gigging around
during the day, so I missed the earlier part, which I regret. I always
have a good time when I can just talk with people I never get enough
time to hang with.

I got there in time to do my duo with Jorrit, which felt good.  I came
dressed in a suit, which seemed reasonable after making $300 playing
Nino Rota's music all afternoon at a wedding. Still, it seemed to freak
a few folks out. I apologize - I swear: it was right back to black
Dickie trousers and a black tee-shirt today.

The Robair/Ingalls/Djll/Shiurba/Perkis handled form about as well you
could expect from an improvising quintet. The pace never lagged, even
when they were holding us in silence. You know you're listening to great
improvisers when you're not thinking about anything but the sounds
you're hearing.

The low end rumble-y earth-moving sonics were my favorite bits - I'm not
so fond of having my ears cleaned by Mr. Ingalls high-end explorations,
but I give it up to him that there is a lot to discover up there, and
that it is a perfectly reasonable aspect of noise and worth presenting
along with the rest of the range of the instrument. It seems to me that
he's been stripping himself of all the amazing technique that he has on
the clarinets in favor of uncovering new ways of working with noise in
an acoustic context. It takes some courage to do that - abandon
technique you've worked on for decades (this is not to imply that what
he does doesn't utilize technique, oh contraire!).
 
There were people there that I had never seen before, so somehow we must
still be finding ways of inviting new people to the community. That's
something in itself!
 
I give it up to Mr. Duff for organizing - everyone said the day was
magnificent all in all, and to Darren and Sarah, who celebrated their
anniversary last week with several outstanding performances. We're
blessed - it's too easy to take it for granted.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 17 08:28:50 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:28:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Commemorating Coltrane's Death
In-Reply-To: <000001c7c848$ef18f820$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <008401c7c887$2d926ee0$4001a8c0@PG>

bListers,

Here's a blurb and some links about a new film/video on Coltrane to
commemorate the anniversary of his death.

Cheers,
PG

40th Anniversary of Coltrane's Death Commemorated by Debut of New Film

It was forty years ago today that John Coltrane died, yet his influence
remains profound.  A new film by Bret Primack, "Like Sonny" -- part six
of the ongoing Sonny Rollins Podcast series -- celebrates the life and
music of this remarkable creator by detailing the story of Trane's
unique friendship with Rollins. The film's title is from a song Coltrane
wrote about Rollins, taking the melody from a phrase he heard Sonny
play.

The thirteen-minute documentary features interviews with Sonny Rollins,
Jimmy Heath, and Paul Jeffrey; an excerpt from a 1960 radio interview
with John Coltrane; and video performances by Trane and Sonny.

Bret Primack produces performance and documentary videos that are all
over the web: on artist/label websites, his video Blog Bird Lives, and
YouTube. He also syndicates his videos to blogs and other music sites.
As of July 1, 2007, Bret has posted one hundred and forty videos with
over one million combined views. 

http://sonnyrollins.com/podcasts.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KckpQYnrozQ

http://www.jazzvideoland.com http://www.jazzvideoland.com/

Bret Primack
http://www.planetbret.com/

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com




From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Jul 17 16:43:34 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:43:34 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Breakthrough in Grey Room playlists: 2007 Jul 11 & 4
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707171643r6c430629sc142253d1f76e294@mail.gmail.com>

This week's show is tonight, 11:59pm-3am (Tue. night/Wed. morning).
90.3 FM San Francisco
or online: http://heule.us/breakthrough/ (click "Online Broadcast")


Playlists from the last two shows:

2007 July 11

Cecil Taylo, "Steps," Unit Structures [Blue Note, 1966]
Phil Minton Quartet, "Almost There," Slur [Emanem, 2007]

Elliott Sharp & Reinhold Friedl, "vert" & "sub," Feuchtify [Emanem, 2006]
Lindsay, Looney & Robair, "You, In My Shadow," Yellowcake [Rastascan, 2006]
[background music] Lindsay, Looney & Robair, "Lazy Tongue," Yellowcake
[Rastascan, 2006]

Micose & the Mau Maus, #1, Yellow [Nightpass Handmade]
[background music] Micose & the Mau Maus, #2, Yellow [Nightpass Handmade]

KK Null, "0500," Fertile [Touch, 2007]
16 Bitch Pile-Up, "The earth was loose," Bury Me Deep [Troniks, 2007]
Machinefabriek, "Lief," Weleer [Lampse, 2007]

Joe+N, #1, Neither Painting Nor Sculpture [Carbon, 2007]
Throbbing Gristle, "Lyre Liar," Part Two: The Endless Not [Mute, 2007]

Jean-Francois Laporte, "Plenitude du vide (2005)," Soundmatters [23Five, 2007]
Head Boggle Domo (in Auralsize), "Rooting Sum," Rchive #1 [Greedmink, 2006]

Tarantism, "Kr?tetreffen Tron," Stuck to the Bottom [Resipiscent, 2007]
Zu & Nobukazu Takemura, "Usual Conversations with Yama,"
Identification With the Enemy: A Key to the Underworld [Atavistic,
2006]

KTL, "Abattoir," KTL 2 [Editions Mego, 2007]
Khlyst, "III," Chaos Is My Name [Hydra Head, 2006]
Mayhem, "Deathcrush," Mediofanum Capta Est [Dwell, 2000]
Darkthrone, "Skald Av Satans Sol," Transilvanian Hunger [Peaceville, 1994]

Gowns, "Mercy Springs," Red State [Cardboard, 2007]
Ghost Band, "Nyx," Skulls for Symphony [Insides Music, 2007]
Nine Inch Nails, "Ringfinger," Pretty Hate Machine [TVT, 1989]
Battles, "Ddiamondd," Mirrored [Warp, 2007]


2007 July 4

Schlippenbach Trio, "Winterreise 2," Winterreise [Psi, 2006]
[background music] Schlippenbach Trio, "Winterreise 1," Winterreise [Psi, 2006]

Phil Minton Quartet, "Far Off," Slur [Emanem, 2007]
Lambs Gamble, "Vibrations Along Nerve Fibres," Memory Collapse [Evolving Ear]
Head Boggle Domo (in Auralsize), "Nature," Rchive #1 [Greedmink, 2006]

Tarantism, "The Cowl Apparatus," Stuck to the Bottom [Resipiscent, 2007]
Throbbing Gristle, "Separated," Part Two: The Endless Not [Mute, 2007]

Joe+N, "Six," Neither Painting Nor Sculpture [Carbon, 2007]
Dave Chokroun, Foreman vs. Foreman [Advanced Musical Research]

KTL, "Snow 2," KTL 2 [Editions Mego, 2007]

KK Null, "0415," Fertile [Touch, 2007]
Machinefabriek, "Bye bye boat, bye bye building," Weleer [Lampse, 2007]
Battles, "Race:In," Mirrored [Warp, 2007]
[background music] Battles, "Atlas," Mirrored [Warp, 2007]

Fond of Tigers, "Here You Are, Hated," A Thing to Live With [Drip Audio, 2006]
King Crimson, "Indiscipline," Discipline [EG/Warner Brothers, 1981]
Fuchs, Lindsay, Smith, Baghdassarians & Baltschun, "Ma(r)ker #7," The
Happymakers [Balance Point Acoustics, 2004]
Adam Bohman & Roger Smith, "So," Reality Fandango [Emanem, 2007]

Anthony Braxton, "Composition 350 - Part 5," 9 Compositions (Iridium)
[Firehouse12, 2007]
Zs (?), unknown title, various - From B to Z, NYC, Year of the Dog
[Fucking A Show Releases, 2007]

Getatchew Mekuria, The Ex & Guests, "Aynotche terabu/Shemonmwanaye,"
Moa Anbessa [Terp, 2006]
Cooke Quintet, "Loss," An Indefinite Suspension of the Possible [Black
Hat, 2006]
Andrew Deutsch & Joe McPhee, "For Fluxus Joe," various - Somethings #1
[Last Visible Dog, 2006]

Zu & Nobukazu Takemura, "Alone with the Alone," Identification with
the Enemy: A Key to the Underworld [Atavistic, 2006]


(please contact me if you have corrections to the listed information)

http://heule.us/breakthrough/

From setar at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 17 19:44:48 2007
From: setar at pacbell.net (Katherine Setar)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:44:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon '07
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1184644804.27406.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1184644804.27406.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <469D7EA0.3040104@pacbell.net>

I'd like to add my voice in thanking Tom and all the other Duffs.  Thank 
you, thank you, thank you!

Katherine Setar

 >newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
 >Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music & 
 >food
 >& friends.
 >Doctor Bob

From cypod25 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 17 22:35:00 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:35:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon '07
In-Reply-To: <469D7EA0.3040104@pacbell.net>
References: <mailman.1.1184644804.27406.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<469D7EA0.3040104@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <473c28030707172235v130d7bb2mbf9e380f12ed4b94@mail.gmail.com>

I'll echo the sentiments of Kathrine's, and others. Thanks Tom Duff, Daren &
Sarah @ 21Grand, Matt and everyone at the Transbay. You guys are what' s
great about our scene, and that's why we're all here instead of some
government subsidized european socialist utopia or low priced Indiana music
farm.

On 7/17/07, Katherine Setar <setar at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> I'd like to add my voice in thanking Tom and all the other Duffs.  Thank
> you, thank you, thank you!
>
> Katherine Setar
>
> >newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
> >Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music &
> >food
> >& friends.
> >Doctor Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Wed Jul 18 06:21:09 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 06:21:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon '07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707172235v130d7bb2mbf9e380f12ed4b94@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1184644804.27406.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<469D7EA0.3040104@pacbell.net>
	<473c28030707172235v130d7bb2mbf9e380f12ed4b94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707180621l7d2a4c9axf3e741230a13cd0@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm, I'm wondering -- is the sfsound internet stream going to be archived
and posted?
Matt?

P.

On 7/17/07, Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'll echo the sentiments of Kathrine's, and others. Thanks Tom Duff, Daren &
> Sarah @ 21Grand, Matt and everyone at the Transbay. You guys are what' s
> great about our scene, and that's why we're all here instead of some
> government subsidized european socialist utopia or low priced Indiana music
> farm.
>
> On 7/17/07, Katherine Setar <setar at pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to add my voice in thanking Tom and all the other Duffs.  Thank
> > you, thank you, thank you!
> >
> > Katherine Setar
> >
> > >newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
> > >Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music &
> > >food
> > >& friends.
> > >Doctor Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
>
> --
> B~
> www.cypod.co.nr
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From ingalls at mills.edu  Wed Jul 18 10:13:08 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <000001c7c848$ef18f820$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7c848$ef18f820$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181012160.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>

> The low end rumble-y earth-moving sonics were my favorite bits - I'm not
> so fond of having my ears cleaned by Mr. Ingalls high-end explorations,

that was gino!

From ingalls at mills.edu  Wed Jul 18 10:14:38 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon '07
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707180621l7d2a4c9axf3e741230a13cd0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1184644804.27406.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<469D7EA0.3040104@pacbell.net>
	<473c28030707172235v130d7bb2mbf9e380f12ed4b94@mail.gmail.com>
	<2eb068d40707180621l7d2a4c9axf3e741230a13cd0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181014300.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>


yes

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, Polly Moller wrote:

> Hmmm, I'm wondering -- is the sfsound internet stream going to be archived
> and posted?
> Matt?
>
> P.
>
> On 7/17/07, Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll echo the sentiments of Kathrine's, and others. Thanks Tom Duff, Daren &
>> Sarah @ 21Grand, Matt and everyone at the Transbay. You guys are what' s
>> great about our scene, and that's why we're all here instead of some
>> government subsidized european socialist utopia or low priced Indiana music
>> farm.
>>
>> On 7/17/07, Katherine Setar <setar at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to add my voice in thanking Tom and all the other Duffs.  Thank
>>> you, thank you, thank you!
>>>
>>> Katherine Setar
>>>
>>>> newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
>>>> Thanks to Tom Duff and all who helped for another great day of music &
>>>> food
>>>> & friends.
>>>> Doctor Bob
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> B~
>> www.cypod.co.nr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------
> http://www.pollymoller.com
> -------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 18 10:32:40 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:32:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181012160.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c7c961$a4961b60$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:13 AM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
 
> The low end rumble-y earth-moving sonics were my favorite bits - I'm
not
> so fond of having my ears cleaned by Mr. Ingalls high-end
explorations,
 
that was gino!

PG:
It was both of you! - Come on, take credit where credit is due...

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Jul 18 10:35:43 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:35:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <001b01c7c961$a4961b60$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <001b01c7c961$a4961b60$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <BFFDB9C5-E080-4174-AFCC-3B516616F52A@balancepointacoustics.com>

I loved the high pitched stuff. I was not so into to Gino's techno  
beat, thankfully it didn't last long.

On Jul 18, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:13 AM
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
>
>> The low end rumble-y earth-moving sonics were my favorite bits - I'm
> not
>> so fond of having my ears cleaned by Mr. Ingalls high-end
> explorations,
>
> that was gino!
>
> PG:
> It was both of you! - Come on, take credit where credit is due...
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From ingalls at mills.edu  Wed Jul 18 11:11:52 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:11:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <001b01c7c961$a4961b60$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <001b01c7c961$a4961b60$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>


well you're the one who singled me out! :)

anyway thanks for bringing ths up so that i can talk about myself ( 
hopefully quickly turning it into a more general discussion )

it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that 
high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional when 
really i'm just trying to make an "acoustic synthesizer with room 
resonance" (in addition to just stealing the licks of the real 
electronics )  -- i don't think a laptop musician playing the same tones 
would get the same reaction

as for "shedding technique" -- i think when playing with good musicians 
everyone is just concentrating on  fitting in - -when the music starts 
sucking is when you start thinking about showing off your 
cool licks..

-m

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:13 AM
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
>
>> The low end rumble-y earth-moving sonics were my favorite bits - I'm
> not
>> so fond of having my ears cleaned by Mr. Ingalls high-end
> explorations,
>
> that was gino!
>
> PG:
> It was both of you! - Come on, take credit where credit is due...
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 18 11:23:09 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:23:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <001401c7c968$b2148720$4001a8c0@PG>

----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07

well you're the one who singled me out! :)

PG:
Well, not to labor the point, but you were clearly getting into it on
your own accord, as well as with Gino.  Now I've gone and labored the
point anyway.

MI:
it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that 
high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional when 
really i'm just trying to make an "acoustic synthesizer with room 
resonance" (in addition to just stealing the licks of the real 
electronics )  -- i don't think a laptop musician playing the same tones

would get the same reaction

PG:
That was kind of the point I was making - I've heard others (who have
asked me) say that they think you're out to hurt people with those
frequencies. I was seeing it as an extension of noise/sound - which is
what you're saying above, for the most part.  Right?

MI:
as for "shedding technique" -- i think when playing with good musicians 
everyone is just concentrating on  fitting in - -when the music starts 
sucking is when you start thinking about showing off your 
cool licks..

PG:
Of course, and that's also what I'm talking about - not "shredding" just
because you can - instead, exploring sound, which is what you were doing
on Sunday. But I remember the first time I heard you at the "original"
21 Grand - you were with Sperry and Shiurba and someone else - maybe
Gino - and you were all "shredding" but at that moment, that was the
appropriate thing to do - it was what was happening in the music...I was
actually complimenting you (if you didn't notice) for being
"appropriate" and not just waving your chops in the air.


From grobair at emusician.com  Wed Jul 18 22:11:39 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:11:39 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] "that was gino"
References: <mailman.1.1184817603.1052.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6E3E@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com>

Djll, me, and Mignalls were exploring the difference tones using the upper registers. Seems like old-school to me (pre-SatchkoM, ladies and gents, and pre-New Berlin-whatever-ya-call-it). Nothing aggressive about it, but you have to do that at a suitable volume for it to work, and that means loud.

As for the "techno beat", I'm not sure what you're talking about, Damon. I was merely pitting several low-frequency oscillators clicking against each other through a filter to create polyrhythms. I know how you like your free improv to remain in certain boxes, but sometimes ya gotta go with the flow! ;-)

But now that I think about it, if there WAS an uber-march-like beat underneath the squealing...we could make some real money on that! Then I could afford to dress like Mr. Greelief!

Thank you Tom Duff for spearheading the whole adventure....

 

 

 


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Jul 18 22:15:59 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:15:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] "that was gino"
In-Reply-To: <41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6E3E@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com>
References: <mailman.1.1184817603.1052.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6E3E@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com>
Message-ID: <55B655C2-EE74-4436-8F63-46F15F978007@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 18, 2007, at 10:11 PM, Robair, Gino wrote:

> As for the "techno beat", I'm not sure what you're talking about,  
> Damon. I was merely pitting several low-frequency oscillators  
> clicking against each other through a filter to create polyrhythms.

- Don't they have some made up word like "Break Beats" for that?

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 18 23:19:30 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:19:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Jon Brumit contact
Message-ID: <20070719061930.99878.qmail@web58705.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I need it. Please contact me about his email contact off the list. Thanks.

-M!

       
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 

From slusser at pixar.com  Thu Jul 19 00:04:40 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:04:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] remembering Trane
Message-ID: <619061F1-49A4-4DBF-864C-C13215EBB1F1@pixar.com>

The Bret Primack stuff PG posted was really nice.
Here's some sincerity from an unabashed admirerer:

> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "David Liebman"
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:21:02 -0400
> Subject: TRANE DAY
>
> SPECIAL DAY
>
> COLTRANE PASSING-JULY 17 1967
>
> It was forty years ago that I landed in Stockholm,
> Sweden and calling pianist Lars Werner whose number
> was given to me by bassist Cameron Brown. After the
> usual salutations Lars asked: ?Do you know that John
> Coltrane died today?? I immediately broke into tears
> while Lars urged me to quickly take the train to his
> home..
>
> I was at the right place at the right time in the
> 1960s being able to see Trane many times in New
> York.
> It was completely by accident but it has determined
> my
> life since. I would not be the same person without
> the
> music of John Coltrane. Whatever words I write
> cannot
> express my appreciation as I was definitely
> privileged
> to have been witness to greatness. His music is as
> close to a belief in a higher power as I have ever
> felt.
>
> Anyone who knows me, either personally or through
> the
> music over these decades realized how important
> Coltrane was to my life, way beyond the music
> itself.
> When I think of the most important influences that
> have molded me outside of direct family, it is
> Trane,
> number one. Through his music, I saw the power of
> sound and human creation, that there is something
> else
> besides what we materially see or hear in front of
> us.
> What underscores these thoughts is that over the
> four
> decades, the power of Trane?s music has just grown
> more and more, obviously in some ways as a result of
> the constant releases of ?new? material, but more
> than
> that. Eventually, by hook or crook as I became a
> better musician over these years, my appreciation of
> the skills and depth of what Coltrane gave the world
> keeps increasing. This reality has strengthened my
> convictions about the power of art to raise the
> human
> condition. As well, when you have such a model in
> one?s mind and ear on a daily level, it puts
> everything else clearly in proportion, in the real
> world as well as musically. I am a lucky guy!!
>
> THANK YOU JOHN AND CONTINUE TO REST IN PEACE.

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 19 03:09:35 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:09:35 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>


mr ingalls wrote:

>it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think 
>a laptop musician playing the same tones
>would get the same reaction

Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
regard (or more hearing loss...).


>when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off 
>your cool licks.

Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
"dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
not enough music...

-George

_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!? 
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1


From cypod25 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 09:14:36 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:14:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>

I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.



On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> mr ingalls wrote:
>
> >it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
> >high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
> >a laptop musician playing the same tones
> >would get the same reaction
>
> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>
>
> >when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
> >your cool licks.
>
> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
> not enough music...
>
> -George
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>


-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jul 19 09:31:00 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EA66DCA8-E0E2-41F2-BB42-D4ED66CFA059@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 19, 2007, at 3:09 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:

>  For better or worse, I've reached
> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
> not enough music...

That makes sense. Ideas are a lot more important. I always notice  
bass players technique just because of teaching so much, I just go  
there automatically.
I don't get uptight about bad technique anymore unless it is not  
working (as in the case of Greg Cohen when I saw him).
I recently read where someone said technique is of such little  
importance that it must be of the utmost importance.
As an improvisor technique is still your best bet to be able to  
consistently make compelling music in multiple contexts.



Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jul 19 11:06:30 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:06:30 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8BA121E5-A2E6-472A-AA61-3AB642C6D09B@matthewgoodheart.com>

High tones, it seems to me, are an acquired taste. Like fingernails  
on a chalk board- I used to hate it, now I LOVE it.

Technique, on the other hand, is a little more problematic. What the  
hell is it, really? One way to think about this is what one is trying  
to achieve: The classic example is Monk: he had "terrible technique"  
in a traditional sense, but it was exactly the perfect technique for  
sounding like Monk. (To which we can insert the deft observation  
"Thelonius Monk would never win the Monk Competition". . . was that  
Kenny Werner?) In this context, technique is the effectiveness of the  
relationship between aesthetic and body/instrument connection.  
"Display," in my book, is not really technique; it's usually an  
observation about speed, and I would agree with Cremashi that speed  
as an indication of musical value belongs to a pretty undeveloped  
aesthetic sense. Technique, rather, can be observed in the simplest  
of moments, perhaps clearest in depth of tone.

This is pretty anecdotal, but I've found that the average player with  
a jazz/rock/blues etc. background tend to define "technique" along  
the lines of speed and virtuosity,  while the average player from a  
classical background tend to define "technique" in terms of  
relaxation and tone production. (And by "average" and "tend"  I mean  
along the lines of "men tend to be taller than women" - there are  
plenty of exceptions, good players think about both approaches  
regardless of background, blah blah.) I wonder if, in part, this has  
to do with the different type of focus on tone these different  
traditions have- in jazz, for example, the focus tends to be on  
"finding your own sound," where distinctiveness is valued; in the  
classical tradition there is a focus on finding a more neutral  or  
mutable tone that can be shaped to accommodate music from different  
historical periods.

Also, will put in my 2 cents about the Skronkathon- thanks! It was  
fun, totally cool, yummy, and I even  got to hear some of the  
podcast, which sounded great too.

mg

On Jul 19, 2007, at 3:09 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:

>
> mr ingalls wrote:
>
>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i  
>> don't think a laptop musician playing the same tones
>> would get the same reaction
>
> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>
>
>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about  
>> showing off your cool licks.
>
> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
> not enough music...
>
> -George
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!   
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 19 11:57:53 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>


painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you 
out?

usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz 
fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area 
(fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.

i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
and length of exposure being the most critical

i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than 
than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.

-m

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:

> I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
> those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
> I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
> with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
>
>
>
> On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> mr ingalls wrote:
>>
>>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
>>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
>>> would get the same reaction
>>
>> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
>> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
>> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
>> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
>> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>>
>>
>>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
>>> your cool licks.
>>
>> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
>> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
>> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
>> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
>> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
>> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
>> not enough music...
>>
>> -George
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
>> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> B~
> www.cypod.co.nr
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From cypod25 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 15:06:58 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:06:58 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>

> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
> out?

It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.

On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story of the
students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; because,
their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend or fact?


>
> usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz
> fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area
> (fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.
>
> i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
> as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
> and length of exposure being the most critical
>
> i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than
> than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.
>
> -m
>
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>
> > I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
> > those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
> > I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
> > with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> mr ingalls wrote:
> >>
> >>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
> >>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
> >>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
> >>> would get the same reaction
> >>
> >> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
> >> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
> >> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
> >> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
> >> regard (or more hearing loss...).
> >>
> >>
> >>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
> >>> your cool licks.
> >>
> >> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
> >> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
> >> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
> >> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
> >> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
> >> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
> >> not enough music...
> >>
> >> -George
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> >> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > B~
> > www.cypod.co.nr
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 19 15:17:38 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191512500.29436@myfiles.mills.edu>


so what is 'too loud' ? surely that last set wasn't as loud as that 
Korba/Yeda gtr/drm duo?

one fo these days i'm going to buy a decibel meter 
and test things out for myself. (we 
get a few complaints every year at the tape fest things get too loud )

here's a chart i give my usf students - scroll to bottom for duration 
lengths on ear damage:

http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf

-m


On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:

>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
>> out?
>
> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.
>
> On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
> able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story of the
> students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; because,
> their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend or fact?
>
>
>>
>> usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz
>> fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area
>> (fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.
>>
>> i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
>> as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
>> and length of exposure being the most critical
>>
>> i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than
>> than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>>
?>>> I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
>>> those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
>>> I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
>>> with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> mr ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>>>>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
>>>>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
>>>>> would get the same reaction
>>>>
>>>> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
>>>> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
>>>> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
>>>> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
>>>> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
>>>>> your cool licks.
>>>>
>>>> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
>>>> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
>>>> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
>>>> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
>>>> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
>>>> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
>>>> not enough music...
>>>>
>>>> -George
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
>>>> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
?>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> B~
>>> www.cypod.co.nr
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> --
> B~
> www.cypod.co.nr
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
?http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf

From kaspelin72 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 15:18:58 2007
From: kaspelin72 at yahoo.com (Kristian Aspelin)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <584308.47019.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Regarding the ring tone side note, I believe it's true.  While I am not "young" (34), I was with some kids who used the high frequency ring tone on their cell phones to see if I could hear it - I could.  However, someone who is 44 years "old" was in the same room at the time but could not hear the ring tone.  

Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com> wrote:  > painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
> out?

It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.

On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story of the
students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; because,
their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend or fact?


>
> usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz
> fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area
> (fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.
>
> i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
> as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
> and length of exposure being the most critical
>
> i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than
> than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.
>
> -m
>
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>
> > I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
> > those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
> > I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
> > with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi wrote:
> >>
> >> mr ingalls wrote:
> >>
> >>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
> >>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
> >>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
> >>> would get the same reaction
> >>
> >> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
> >> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
> >> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
> >> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
> >> regard (or more hearing loss...).
> >>
> >>
> >>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
> >>> your cool licks.
> >>
> >> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
> >> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
> >> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
> >> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
> >> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
> >> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
> >> not enough music...
> >>
> >> -George
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> >> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > B~
> > www.cypod.co.nr
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 15:24:40 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] If you happen to be in London in October....
In-Reply-To: <43244.88273.qm@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <479960.41546.qm@web58710.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

....Glenn Branca is seeking 80 guitarists and 20 bass players for his
upcoming performance of "Symphony No.13 (Hallucination City)". This
performance will be in London on October 12 at The Roundhouse as part
of Frieze Music 2007.

There will be two rehearsals on October 9 and 10 from 11:00 to 21:00 on both
days. And a sound check at The Roundhouse on the day of the concert.
It will not be possible to pay so all musicians must volunteer their time,
but food and drink will be supplied at all rehearsals and the
performance. 

All musicians will need to be able to read standard staff notation. 
For more information contact dthetncrkr at earthlink.net and you will be sent a detailed info sheet.
       
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 15:27:40 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191512500.29436@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <520973.92953.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I though we were the loudest that night. I guess we're not playing hard enough. Well, we were minus a second drummer, so that may explain that....

When we played live on KFJC earlier this year, we had a decibel meter record our loudness and we were like around 150. We were so proud, our ears are still ringing with pride.

-M!


"Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote: 
so what is 'too loud' ? surely that last set wasn't as loud as that 
Korba/Yeda gtr/drm duo?

one fo these days i'm going to buy a decibel meter 
and test things out for myself. (we 
get a few complaints every year at the tape fest things get too loud )

here's a chart i give my usf students - scroll to bottom for duration 
lengths on ear damage:

http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf

-m


On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:

>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
>> out?
>
> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.
>
> On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
> able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story of the
> students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; because,
> their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend or fact?
>
>
>>
>> usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz
>> fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area
>> (fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.
>>
>> i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
>> as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
>> and length of exposure being the most critical
>>
>> i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than
>> than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>>
?>>> I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
>>> those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
>>> I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
>>> with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> mr ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>>>>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
>>>>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
>>>>> would get the same reaction
>>>>
>>>> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
>>>> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
>>>> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
>>>> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
>>>> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
>>>>> your cool licks.
>>>>
>>>> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
>>>> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
>>>> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
>>>> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
>>>> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
>>>> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
>>>> not enough music...
>>>>
>>>> -George
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
>>>> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
?>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> B~
>>> www.cypod.co.nr
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> --
> B~
> www.cypod.co.nr
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
?http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 15:32:37 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 12" High-tom
Message-ID: <677128.90686.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hey!

I thought I would try here before trying elsewhere. I have a Yamaha high-tom, 12" in diameter, black and in good condition. I have an extra tom and I don't need this anymore. If anyone is interested, let me know. Off-list, of course. I'm asking $20.00 for it. Thanks.


Moe! Staiano
  209-814-2524
  moestaiano1 at yahoo.com
  www.moestaiano.com 
  www.myspace.com/moestaianomoekestra
   
"I know how to fix records, I'm from New York."
-Overheard from person in a music store

       
---------------------------------
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 19 15:47:28 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <520973.92953.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <520973.92953.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191545020.29436@myfiles.mills.edu>


yea, you are right ya'll were the loudest!

well according to my chart 150 dB is as loud as a jet engine 100ft away, 
and hearing loss starts within 30sec of exposure!

-m

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Moe! Staiano wrote:

> I though we were the loudest that night. I guess we're not playing hard enough. Well, we were minus a second drummer, so that may explain that....
>
> When we played live on KFJC earlier this year, we had a decibel meter record our loudness and we were like around 150. We were so proud, our ears are still ringing with pride.
>
> -M!
>
>
> "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:
> so what is 'too loud' ? surely that last set wasn't as loud as that
> Korba/Yeda gtr/drm duo?
>
> one fo these days i'm going to buy a decibel meter
> and test things out for myself. (we
> get a few complaints every year at the tape fest things get too loud )
>
> here's a chart i give my usf students - scroll to bottom for duration
> lengths on ear damage:
>
> http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf
>
> -m
>
>
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>
>>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
>>> out?
>>
>> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
>> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
>> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
>> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.
>>
>> On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
>> able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story of the
>> students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; because,
>> their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend or fact?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz
>>> fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area
>>> (fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.
>>>
>>> i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
>>> as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
>>> and length of exposure being the most critical
>>>
>>> i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than
>>> than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.
>>>
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>>>
> ?>>> I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
>>>> those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
>>>> I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
>>>> with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> mr ingalls wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>>>>>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
>>>>>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
>>>>>> would get the same reaction
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
>>>>> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
>>>>> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
>>>>> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
>>>>> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
>>>>>> your cool licks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
>>>>> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
>>>>> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
>>>>> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
>>>>> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
>>>>> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
>>>>> not enough music...
>>>>>
>>>>> -George
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
>>>>> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>
> ?>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> B~
>>>> www.cypod.co.nr
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> B~
>> www.cypod.co.nr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
> ?http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf_______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From tim at perkis.com  Thu Jul 19 16:25:50 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:25:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07 or technique
In-Reply-To: <EA66DCA8-E0E2-41F2-BB42-D4ED66CFA059@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<EA66DCA8-E0E2-41F2-BB42-D4ED66CFA059@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <469FF2FE.20801@perkis.com>

yes, I agree with George -- technique should disappear. When you don't 
have it, it's at issue, and  right in your face, but when you do have 
it, it fades into the background.



From tim at perkis.com  Thu Jul 19 16:30:45 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:30:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <469FF425.8080602@perkis.com>



Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you 
> out?
>   
no, you may find it hard to believe, but for some people this shit is 
beyond annoying and actually painful, as in pain.

I'm not really one of these, though. I just find it extremely unpleasant 
and irritating.

The buzzing difference tone thing is often interesting, but not 
interesting enough to make the whole thing worth it.




From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 19 16:35:09 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:35:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 12" High-tom
In-Reply-To: <677128.90686.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <677128.90686.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707191635h5d93118dufc2eeae411b1f970@mail.gmail.com>

sell me a snare!

On 7/19/07, Moe! Staiano <moestaiano1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hey!
>
> I thought I would try here before trying elsewhere. I have a Yamaha high-tom, 12" in diameter, black and in good condition. I have an extra tom and I don't need this anymore. If anyone is interested, let me know. Off-list, of course. I'm asking $20.00 for it. Thanks.
>
>
> Moe! Staiano
>   209-814-2524
>   moestaiano1 at yahoo.com
>   www.moestaiano.com
>   www.myspace.com/moestaianomoekestra
>
> "I know how to fix records, I'm from New York."
> -Overheard from person in a music store
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From michaelz at zoka.com  Thu Jul 19 17:17:19 2007
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:17:19 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <584308.47019.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <584308.47019.qm@web52608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0602041bc2c5ae828a1b@[192.168.0.5]>

On 7/19/07, Kristian Aspelin wrote:

>Regarding the ring tone side note, I believe it's true. While I am 
>not "young" (34), I was with some kids who used the high frequency 
>ring tone on their cell phones to see if I could hear it - I could. 
>However, someone who is 44 years "old" was in the same room at the 
>time but could not hear the ring tone.
>
>Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com> wrote:

>On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are 
>better able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story 
>of the students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; 
>because, their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend 
>or fact?


Yes, it's true. The story was in the news last year. E.g.:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/technology/12ring.html>

FYI, the ring tone in question is at 17 kHz.

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 19 17:18:47 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:18:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <469FF425.8080602@perkis.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<469FF425.8080602@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191716100.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>



On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Tim Perkis wrote:

>
>
> Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
>> out?
>>
> no, you may find it hard to believe, but for some people this shit is
> beyond annoying and actually painful, as in pain.

so you are saying fletcher-munson is wrong? or that it is an average and 
the range of perception is pretty wide?  or that pain can happen well 
below 120db "phones" ?

From walters at doubtfulpalace.com  Thu Jul 19 17:28:42 2007
From: walters at doubtfulpalace.com (Tim Walters)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191716100.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<469FF425.8080602@perkis.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191716100.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <3602.207.172.28.2.1184891322.squirrel@www.doubtfulpalace.com>

 > so you are saying fletcher-munson is wrong? or that it is an average and
> the range of perception is pretty wide?  or that pain can happen well
> below 120db "phones" ?

The word to google is "hyperacusis":

http://hubel.sfasu.edu/courseinfo/SL98/hyp1.html

-- 
Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com



From praemedia at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 17:29:13 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191716100.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <938725.56221.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> so you are saying fletcher-munson is wrong? or that
> it is an average and 
> the range of perception is pretty wide?  or that
> pain can happen well 
> below 120db "phones" ?

pain can happen well below 120. pain is a pretty
subjective thing. when something hurts the ears, it
does not always induce damage. your throwing the
kitchen sink in the soup. when someone says high tones
hurt there ears then high tones hurt their ears. and I
still don't like broccoli.

lance


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz 

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 19 17:43:04 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <3602.207.172.28.2.1184891322.squirrel@www.doubtfulpalace.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<469FF425.8080602@perkis.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191716100.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<3602.207.172.28.2.1184891322.squirrel@www.doubtfulpalace.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191738230.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>


ok my quick goolge search seems to reveal about 5% of population has this 
-- which seems pretty significant and again leads me to ask again:
  is fletcher-munson wrong?

-m

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Tim Walters wrote:

> > so you are saying fletcher-munson is wrong? or that it is an average and
>> the range of perception is pretty wide?  or that pain can happen well
>> below 120db "phones" ?
>
> The word to google is "hyperacusis":
>
> http://hubel.sfasu.edu/courseinfo/SL98/hyp1.html
>
> --
> Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 19 17:48:01 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <938725.56221.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <938725.56221.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191743210.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>


well when my acoustics book says 120db is "threshold of sensitivity/pain" 
then i assume anything below that is not painful.  obviously there are 
exceptions, and i am not trying to dismiss those -- but if the number is 
significant wouldn't you think the book would give a range?

-m

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Praemedia wrote:

>> so you are saying fletcher-munson is wrong? or that
>> it is an average and
>> the range of perception is pretty wide?  or that
>> pain can happen well
>> below 120db "phones" ?
>
> pain can happen well below 120. pain is a pretty
> subjective thing. when something hurts the ears, it
> does not always induce damage. your throwing the
> kitchen sink in the soup. when someone says high tones
> hurt there ears then high tones hurt their ears. and I
> still don't like broccoli.
>
> lance
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Got a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 17:59:19 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:59:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191743210.30523@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <20070720005919.43927.qmail@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Take your nose out that book. Aside from those with
diagnosed high sensitivity, it is a matter of not
being able to stomach broccoli.

--- "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:

> 
> well when my acoustics book says 120db is "threshold
> of sensitivity/pain" 
> then i assume anything below that is not painful. 
> obviously there are 
> exceptions, and i am not trying to dismiss those --
> but if the number is 
> significant wouldn't you think the book would give a
> range?
> 
> -m



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jul 19 18:18:17 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:18:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <20070720005919.43927.qmail@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG>

Wow, a real discussion with footnotes and opinions! And no one has
become pissed off and become surly...I'm impressed. 

Skronkathon 2007 scores again!
PG


-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Praemedia
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:59 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07

Take your nose out that book. Aside from those with
diagnosed high sensitivity, it is a matter of not
being able to stomach broccoli.

--- "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:

> 
> well when my acoustics book says 120db is "threshold
> of sensitivity/pain" 
> then i assume anything below that is not painful. 
> obviously there are 
> exceptions, and i am not trying to dismiss those --
> but if the number is 
> significant wouldn't you think the book would give a
> range?
> 
> -m



       
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new
Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 18:29:10 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
Message-ID: <697134.4778.qm@web50306.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I see OSHA recommends listening to Mute Socialite for "Less than 1.5 Minutes" Perhaps they should be called Deaf Socialite?


lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: Moe! Staiano <moestaiano1 at yahoo.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 3:27:40 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07


I though we were the loudest that night. I guess we're not playing hard enough. Well, we were minus a second drummer, so that may explain that....

When we played live on KFJC earlier this year, we had a decibel meter record our loudness and we were like around 150. We were so proud, our ears are still ringing with pride.

-M!


"Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:
so what is 'too loud' ? surely that last set wasn't as loud as that
Korba/Yeda gtr/drm duo?

one fo these days i'm going to buy a decibel meter
and test things out for myself. (we
get a few complaints every year at the tape fest things get too loud )

here's a chart i give my usf students - scroll to bottom for duration
lengths on ear damage:

http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf

-m


On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:

>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that freak you
>> out?
>
> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.
>
> On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
> able to hear certain high frequencies. For instance the story of the
> students sending text messages behind the teacher's back; because,
> their ring tone goes unnoticed by the teacher. Urban legend or fact?
>
>
>>
>> usually when i am making those tones on the clarinet, it is around 1500 hz
>> fundamental which is getting up to the most sensitive area
>> (fletcher-munson et al) -- the next partial is totally right there.
>>
>> i definitely play SOFTER in that range - probalby 90db or less -- and
>> as far as i understand, pain/damage is only dependent on raw amplitude
>> and length of exposure being the most critical
>>
>> i'm sure your headphone listening of drum & bas is far more damaging than
>> than a clarinet in the high register at 21grand.
>>
>> -m
>>
>> On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:
>>
?>>> I would plug up my ears whether it was from a laptop or clarinet,
>>> those high tones are painful. From my days of acoustical research,
>>> I've found that creating room resonance, or standing waves, is easier
>>> with the bass drones rather than short high pitched bursts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/19/07, George Cremaschi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> mr ingalls wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it's interesting that i get a lot of people interpreting that
>>>>> high stuff as confrontational or agressive or emotional... -- i don't think
>>>>> a laptop musician playing the same tones
>>>>> would get the same reaction
>>>>
>>>> Well I'm not playing a laptop, just actual oscillators, and
>>>> love doing loud high-pitched things, and have really
>>>> bummed out a few people in the process, so I'm guessing
>>>> some folks have more physical tolerance than others in this
>>>> regard (or more hearing loss...).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> when the music starts sucking is when you start thinking about showing off
>>>>> your cool licks.
>>>>
>>>> Often, this is quite true. For better or worse, I've reached
>>>> the point where the second I notice someone's 'technique'
>>>> is the point where I begin disliking the music. To me,
>>>> "dude, so-and-so can play the shit out of the tuba"
>>>> is a young statement. A true 'master' makes selfless music -
>>>> if there's a lot of 'technique' on display, then maybe there's
>>>> not enough music...
>>>>
>>>> -George
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
>>>> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
?>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> B~
>>> www.cypod.co.nr
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> --
> B~
> www.cypod.co.nr
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
?http://sfsound.org/~sono/usf/acoustics/CommonDBLevels.pdf_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



---------------------------------
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 19 18:33:25 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
Message-ID: <642348.33995.qm@web50301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Also, notice that "Rock Concerts" are painful no-matter where you are (front of stage, or audience)...CLEARLY subjective...


lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:48:01 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07


well when my acoustics book says 120db is "threshold of sensitivity/pain" 
then i assume anything below that is not painful.  obviously there are 
exceptions, and i am not trying to dismiss those -- but if the number is 
significant wouldn't you think the book would give a range?

-m

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Praemedia wrote:

>> so you are saying fletcher-munson is wrong? or that
>> it is an average and
>> the range of perception is pretty wide?  or that
>> pain can happen well
>> below 120db "phones" ?
>
> pain can happen well below 120. pain is a pretty
> subjective thing. when something hurts the ears, it
> does not always induce damage. your throwing the
> kitchen sink in the soup. when someone says high tones
> hurt there ears then high tones hurt their ears. and I
> still don't like broccoli.
>
> lance
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Got a little couch potato?
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
> _______________________________________________
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> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From td at pixar.com  Thu Jul 19 21:29:24 2007
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0707192113350.6974@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Cypod wrote:

> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.

There was definitely stuff that was too loud at the Skronkathon. I left
the room for jay & mikey's set (it sounded great from the alleyway --
there's bad loud and good loud) and I put in earplugs for Mute Socialite,
on Moe's advice.  The closing set didn't strike me as dangerously loud,
though I enjoyed the intermod happening in my ear canals, so it was at
least loud enough to drive my peripheral audio system into nonlinearity
(earplugs would have spoiled the effect.)  Mind you, I don't believe I
have ever in my life heard a sound that was loud enough to cause me pain,
(including turbofans 20 ft overhead and the East Brother foghorn at a 50
ft range) although I certainly can tell when something is loud enough that
my ears will ring when I get home.  That's when I leave the room or put in
the orange plugs.

> On an interesting side note, I have heard that young people are better
> able to hear certain high frequencies.

I'm 54 or 55, and the high end of my hearing has definitely rolled off,
say above 14 or 16 kHz.  But ma++'s clarinet was several octaves below 
that range (except for upper harmonics.)

-- 
Tom Duff.  I would gladly play for you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

From shiurba at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 20 01:40:11 2007
From: shiurba at pacbell.net (John Shiurba)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:40:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <51D33B2D-1DC0-4C5B-81AA-A3418AFEA9CD@pacbell.net>

difference tones can certainly tickle your ears, and your mileage may  
vary from amusement to torment, but there's no question whatsoever  
that this has nothing to do with volume. anyone who sat through the  
Mute Socialite set 20 minutes earlier heard sounds that were  
exponentially louder than anything that happened during the set in  
question. if you don't believe me, just ask Ava if she'd be willing  
to do a Mute Socialite gig with the 12 watt Fender Princeton that I  
was using (with the volume knob set to 3). can you say "air guitar"?

On Jul 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:

> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:06:58 -0700
> From: Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that  
>> freak you
>> out?
>
> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.


From jfheule at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 03:30:29 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:30:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191512500.29436@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707181052110.14496@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F19BCE44968091A2DDB5AE9C1FB0@phx.gbl>
	<473c28030707190914k612cd6fbg48a4014d8c4f6c76@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191140170.27716@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707191512500.29436@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707200330q3a6f9cfap51fa61cdd72840e6@mail.gmail.com>

Korber/Yeda was probably the loudest (also the bloodiest), but I was
sitting closer than I was to Mute Socialite. Both were great.

Dryer/Heule was the quietest, so there.

j

On 7/19/07, Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:
>
> so what is 'too loud' ? surely that last set wasn't as loud as that
> Korba/Yeda gtr/drm duo?

-- 
http://ettrick.org
http://myspace.com/ettrick
http://heule.us
http://myspace.com/jacobfelix

From grobair at emusician.com  Fri Jul 20 10:27:40 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:27:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Rod Poole in Guitar Player
Message-ID: <C2C63E9C.3BEB%grobair@emusician.com>

The August issue of Guitar Player includes a nice note about Rod Poole,
explaining in brief who he was and the events leading up to his murder. 


From grobair at emusician.com  Fri Jul 20 10:53:04 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:53:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Steinway double-keyboard piano
Message-ID: <C2C64490.3C00%grobair@emusician.com>

Helpful in playing Bach's "Goldberg" Variations, among other things...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/arts/music/15barr.html?_r=1&ref=music&oref
=slogin


From magsatellite at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 10:56:08 2007
From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:56:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <673643.87707.qm@web43136.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

i've been into the high freq since i first saw amy denio sing and play
accordian (very scary and beautiful!), that difference tone melody stuff like
marianne amacher and some of pauline 0's stuff... neat. in laptop stuff i use
it too. just did high-vs-high sweeps in the music for the hellen keller play
for Theatre of Yugen last week, it seemed appropriate. and as an (almost ) 44
year old i can still hear the 17k ring tones. barely. the thing about it is men
lose high freq hearing in their 30s usually. especially if they smoke,
apparently. notice how most of the old guys who have the big movie mixing jobs
are making the high end sound in star wars and crap like that. or, another
example, i remember mastering an lp at fantasy years ago with george horn, who
was a famous mastering engineer - for years - man those high hats really came
out... 
the fact is, more women should be audio mixers and mastering engineers for
longer. women's hearing is generally better for longer. 

but anyway...

MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel 
magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com
http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com


       
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From tim at perkis.com  Fri Jul 20 11:11:54 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:11:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Randy Porter?
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707191635h5d93118dufc2eeae411b1f970@mail.gmail.com>
References: <677128.90686.qm@web58707.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<c70e517b0707191635h5d93118dufc2eeae411b1f970@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46A0FAEA.3040406@perkis.com>

I'm looking for contact info for Randy Porter -- can anyone who has it 
contact me off the list? thanks

tim at perkis.com



From tim at perkis.com  Fri Jul 20 11:59:23 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:59:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>



Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> Wow, a real discussion with footnotes and opinions! And no one has
> become pissed off and become surly...I'm impressed. 
>
>   
to quote our beloved weasel, FUCK YOU!

yeah, I'm with lance on this... I don't know shit from 'fletcher-munson' 
(what is that? A furniture store?) but
I'm just inclined to believe people who tell me it actually hurts their 
ears.  Are you just going to not believe them?

How else do you know about anyone else's pain except for what they report?
>   

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 12:01:15 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <76099.40986.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> How else do you know about anyone else's pain except
> for what they report?

Someone needs to tell my doctor that.




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Fri Jul 20 12:11:00 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:11:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Skronkathon 07
Message-ID: <C2C656D4.1EFBE%21grand@21grand.org>

Does Fletcher-Munson say anything about the sound of bowing styrofoam? ...
My teeth sure do!

sl


From tjohns at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 12:29:13 2007
From: tjohns at mills.edu (Travis C. Johns)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:29:13 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <C2C656D4.1EFBE%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2C656D4.1EFBE%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <1184959753.46a10d097a129@webmail.mills.edu>

well, if the sound of bowing styrofoam is beginning to hurt your teeth,
perhaps we should examine your technique. for instance, have you tried
taking the styrofoam out of your mouth while bowing? might make a world
of difference...

... sorry, couldn't help myself.

t

Quoting Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>:

> Does Fletcher-Munson say anything about the sound of bowing
> styrofoam? ...
> My teeth sure do!
>
> sl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 12:29:59 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>
References: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG> <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201202380.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>


> yeah, I'm with lance on this... I don't know shit from 'fletcher-munson'

equal-loudness curves? uh - that's more important for a musician to know 
than "do-re-mi"!

> I'm just inclined to believe people who tell me it actually hurts their
> ears.  Are you just going to not believe them?

maybe. but what exactly is "painful" ?  could they really just mean 
"physical"?  or just find it easier i mean, it just 
seems so odd to me that EVERYDAY things like 
car stereos, freeways, and modern movie theaters can be so fucking loud 
and pretty much tolerated and any people with unusual reactions to 
loudness would already know how to make things tolerable, even in 
classical music settings (do they ever go to orchestra concerts??)

this actually is a big concern of mine ( as well as an intellectual 
curiousity ) -- like i mentioned at the beginning of this thread i am 
always surprised that people think i'm trying to be confrontational or 
obnoxious so clearly there is a problem communicating which as an ARTIST 
is a BIG PROBLEM.

this thing also comes up every year on the tape fest -- there's no 
question that it sounds better loud - but we certainly don't want people 
uncomfortable -- and we absolutely don't want to damage anyone's hearing. 
but where do you draw the line?  my only conclusion is to use 
scientifically derived data (fletcher-munson) with a dB meter.

-m


From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 12:38:03 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:38:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201202380.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <699755.76794.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> uncomfortable -- and we absolutely don't want to
> damage anyone's hearing. 
> but where do you draw the line?  my only conclusion
> is to use 
> scientifically derived data (fletcher-munson) with a
> dB meter.

Been known to play too loud myself at times, but aside
from the issue of the actual LOUDNESS is people
sesnitivity to frequency.

An example: I was very sorry to miss a Nakamura
concert hear a few years but Tom Djll told me about it
later. Said it was all high frequencies and seemed
painfully loud. He only realized how quiet it was one
speaking to people around him. No need to shout. They
could talk in normal voices. So the frequency was
uncomfortable, but the volume certainly wasn't truly
damaging to anyones ears.

Most of my electro music friends play too loud for my
taste. Any show that requires earplugs is too loud.
Unfortuantely, that seems to be a hell of a lot of
shows these days.

(exception given to certain noise music, where the
shear physicallity of the waves in the room is part of
the point in performance).

lance



       
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From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 12:42:06 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <699755.76794.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <699755.76794.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201239580.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>



> Been known to play too loud myself at times, but aside
> from the issue of the actual LOUDNESS is people
> sesnitivity to frequency.

uh.. fletcher-munson, dude!
  maybe you should pick up a book :)

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 12:49:13 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201239580.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <834516.62658.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> > Been known to play too loud myself at times, but
> aside
> > from the issue of the actual LOUDNESS is people
> > sesnitivity to frequency.
> 
> uh.. fletcher-munson, dude!
>   maybe you should pick up a book :)

I know exactly what fletcher-munson is, but I gave up
reading anything about music for a while (that said,
funny enought, I'm right in the middle of "Where Dead
Voices Gather")

It does not take into account actual human and
PERSONAL sensitivity to certain issues. It is more
about the acoustic dynamic of a supposed ear. Who has
that supposed, perfectly average ear? no one. so, i
say aim a little lower (volume, not frequency).

I've often personally found things WAY too loud that
couldn't possibly be damaging to my ears and I just
blame it on getting too old.

cheers

lance




       
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Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
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From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 13:03:48 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:03:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] not really Skronkathon 07 anymore
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201239580.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <20070720200348.16153.qmail@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Also, been a lot of nice research SINCE Fletcher and
Munson. No one has torn down their edifice but there
have been some clarifications and modifications.

For instance - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

...though this one really wants to deal with the
difference between loudspeakers and headphones, it is
rather interesting (for the Tape Music Festival for
instance) that all this data was using one or two
speakers and headphones. What would the difference be
in surround, if any?

lance


       
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From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 13:26:23 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:26:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <834516.62658.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201239580.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<834516.62658.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707201326r5d343e80g5e0214a029836764@mail.gmail.com>

Yah, I think it's a personal thing. My dislike for certain high
frequencies is like my dislike of tthe sensation of a plastic spoon
scraping the bottom of a styrofoam cup, touching two toenails
together, eating squash (or watching Matt Ingalls eat broccoli), or
looking at 3-d images without 3-d glasses.

Like someone else mentioned, I'm not set off by the sound of nails on
chalkboard as much these days. However the CRT sound of a television
on 'mute' drives me nuts.

Matt

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 13:41:55 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:41:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] not really Skr~ Demand ISO 226:2003 compliant
	musicians!!!
Message-ID: <20070720204155.29560.qmail@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Funny, the ISO is involved in EVERYTHING!!!


I've always been distrustful of those "noise cancelling" headphones, as they seem to put as much (if not more) pressure on your eardrums than the irritating loud noise that you were listening to...


lettuce...





----- Original Message ----
From: Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 1:03:48 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] not really Skronkathon 07 anymore


Also, been a lot of nice research SINCE Fletcher and
Munson. No one has torn down their edifice but there
have been some clarifications and modifications.

For instance - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

...though this one really wants to deal with the
difference between loudspeakers and headphones, it is
rather interesting (for the Tape Music Festival for
instance) that all this data was using one or two
speakers and headphones. What would the difference be
in surround, if any?

lance


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 20 13:44:56 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] not really Skr~ Demand ISO 226:2003 compliant
	musicians!!!
In-Reply-To: <20070720204155.29560.qmail@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48542.96694.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> I've always been distrustful of those "noise
> cancelling" headphones, as they seem to put as much
> (if not more) pressure on your eardrums than the
> irritating loud noise that you were listening to...

Listener fatigue perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listener_fatigue

;-)


       
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From tim at perkis.com  Fri Jul 20 14:15:04 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:15:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201202380.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG> <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201202380.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <46A125D8.4020800@perkis.com>



Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
>> I'm just inclined to believe people who tell me it actually hurts their
>> ears.  Are you just going to not believe them?
>
> maybe. but what exactly is "painful" ?  could they really just mean 
> "physical"?  ..
> this actually is a big concern of mine ( as well as an intellectual 
> curiousity ) -- like i mentioned at the beginning of this thread i am 
> always surprised that people think i'm trying to be confrontational or 
> obnoxious so clearly there is a problem communicating which as an 
> ARTIST is a BIG PROBLEM.
yeah... but here's a communication problem: if people say something is 
painful to them, just BELIEVE THEM, rather than saying, 'well, what is 
pain, really?' or 'maybe they're just saying that, it isn't REALLY 
painful', etc.

I'm not saying you have to change what you're doing based on what these 
people are saying -- obviously not every music is for everyone, and 
you're not forcing them to listen to you.  But what basis do you really 
have for questioning their reaction?


>

From grobair at emusician.com  Fri Jul 20 14:18:04 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:18:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] The McDonald's Tour
In-Reply-To: <52025C5C203E9E4D880C905FDB9ADAAC0B28B6@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com>
Message-ID: <C2C6749C.3C35%grobair@emusician.com>

?Concert information will also be listed on McDonald's french fries boxes?

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3i4e5cfeef7081c5c87
ae845ed628f80e3 



From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 20 14:25:40 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:25:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707201326r5d343e80g5e0214a029836764@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201239580.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<834516.62658.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<c70e517b0707201326r5d343e80g5e0214a029836764@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AE6EB416-8C6E-4657-959D-F29241BC1418@balancepointacoustics.com>

I have to say I love Sachiko M and Nakamura, but the piercing screams  
of the toddler next door who is a casualty of poor parenting (even by  
Bay Area standards) is getting to be unbearable.
The Japanese improvisors pitches are higher, but the Oakland toddler  
has more power behind it's screeches - unless it  gets to the point  
of having to fight fire with fire, then the sine waves get blasted  
and at least the "parents" shut the doors and windows.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Fri Jul 20 14:41:11 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:41:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
Message-ID: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>

Now there's a question I have - that combines acoustic science and music -
what music works best for cancelling out the annoying sounds of one's
neighbors. I live above a fellow that will occasionally break out the
groove-funk organ and a smattering of smooth jazz. Something death
metal-like seemed to do the trick.  But Mr. Smith's screaming small child
would have different sonic properties.

sl



Der Damon wrote:
I have to say I love Sachiko M and Nakamura, but the piercing screams
of the toddler next door who is a casualty of poor parenting (even by
Bay Area standards) is getting to be unbearable.
The Japanese improvisors pitches are higher, but the Oakland toddler
has more power behind it's screeches - unless it  gets to the point
of having to fight fire with fire, then the sine waves get blasted
and at least the "parents" shut the doors and windows.

Damon Smith


From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 14:45:12 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <46A125D8.4020800@perkis.com>
References: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG> <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201202380.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<46A125D8.4020800@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201421230.9241@myfiles.mills.edu>



> yeah... but here's a communication problem: if people say something is 
> painful to them, just BELIEVE THEM, rather than saying, 'well, what is pain, 
> really?' or 'maybe they're just saying that, it isn't REALLY painful', etc.

of course i would believe them! - i think what i'm saying is "pain" is 
pretty vague - 
even the acoustics books equate "pain" with "sensation" - and "Sensation" 
is what it's all about!!

and just to be clear, i don't think i've ever had anyone ~say~ the high 
clarinet stuff was painful

-m

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 20 14:49:40 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:49:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201421230.9241@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <002001c7ca6b$db015ec0$4001a8c0@PG> <46A1060B.3070801@perkis.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201202380.8047@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<46A125D8.4020800@perkis.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201421230.9241@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <91A206C1-FEFC-48D5-9DF0-9B0687E58910@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 20, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:

> and just to be clear, i don't think i've ever had anyone ~say~ the  
> high
> clarinet stuff was painful

-The high Clarinet stuff was awesome. It could have only been  
improved by adding and Eb and Ab clarinet both at the top of their  
registers.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 15:02:21 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:02:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>

How about for my neighbors' "Blast gospel music Sundays" and "Play
Prince's 'Raspberry Beret' over and over Wednesdays?"

My initial approach was to yell "Shut up" out the window on "Blast
Janet Jackson's 'When I Think of You' Tuesdays", but when the police
came, they put me in handcuffs and then started dancing to the music.


On 7/20/07, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> Now there's a question I have - that combines acoustic science and music -
> what music works best for cancelling out the annoying sounds of one's
> neighbors. I live above a fellow that will occasionally break out the
> groove-funk organ and a smattering of smooth jazz. Something death
> metal-like seemed to do the trick.  But Mr. Smith's screaming small child
> would have different sonic properties.
>
> sl
>
>
>
> Der Damon wrote:
> I have to say I love Sachiko M and Nakamura, but the piercing screams
> of the toddler next door who is a casualty of poor parenting (even by
> Bay Area standards) is getting to be unbearable.
> The Japanese improvisors pitches are higher, but the Oakland toddler
> has more power behind it's screeches - unless it  gets to the point
> of having to fight fire with fire, then the sine waves get blasted
> and at least the "parents" shut the doors and windows.
>
> Damon Smith
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jul 20 15:32:22 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:32:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>
	<c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62324ABA-C119-4F30-9C46-A5C8EE91A10E@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jul 20, 2007, at 3:02 PM, Matt Davignon wrote:

> How about for my neighbors' "Blast gospel music Sundays" and "Play
> Prince's 'Raspberry Beret' over and over Wednesdays?"

Actually, the loudest music I have heard recently (on parr with, and  
perhaps surpassing, the eminently enjoyable Heule/Dryer as well as  
Ms. Amacher) has been in churches. The recent explosion of "Christian  
Rock" has taken a decidedly heavy metal turn in some quarters, and  
tends to be rock-club loud. But the loudest has always been, in my  
experience, in black churches. The last time I was at Village  
Baptist  in Marin City, my ears rang for hours- they play LOUD and  
LONG.  It is my understanding that volume plays an important part in  
some Charismatic and Pentecostal glossolalia events. . . though not  
absolutely necessary, the suburbanite tongue-speakers I know tend to  
be more quiet. . . )

mg

From bradysharp at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 15:59:15 2007
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:59:15 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>
	<c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7177e350707201559k38e969aeneef7f6487108abfc@mail.gmail.com>

> My initial approach was to yell "Shut up" out the window on "Blast
> Janet Jackson's 'When I Think of You' Tuesdays", but when the police
> came, they put me in handcuffs and then started dancing to the music.

Was Cab Calloway there as well?

Brady

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 20 16:11:17 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:11:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>
	<c70e517b0707201502y51ec9d7co4d6f898b63dba5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2180A7A1-1EC5-430F-A0A8-58F45D535940@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 20, 2007, at 3:02 PM, Matt Davignon wrote:

> How about for my neighbors' "Blast gospel music Sundays" and "Play
> Prince's 'Raspberry Beret' over and over Wednesdays?"

Evan Parker's solo soprano cd "Lines Burnt in Light" should work. If  
they persist you can move on to Wolfgang Fuchs' solo sopranino tracks  
on "Bits and Pieces" or hire Jacob Lindsay to play his Ab clarinet in  
person.


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 20 16:33:28 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:33:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201421230.9241@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <000b01c7cb26$60d005f0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07

of course i would believe them! - i think what i'm saying is "pain" is 
pretty vague - 
even the acoustics books equate "pain" with "sensation" - and
"Sensation" 
is what it's all about!!

and just to be clear, i don't think i've ever had anyone ~say~ the high 
clarinet stuff was painful

-m
 
PG:
Well, that's how people are - they like to complain, but they rarely go
to the source. 

A few people - I'd say three or four - have heard you doing that in
performance and come up to me afterward and asked, "Why does that guy do
that - doesn't he know it really hurts our ears?" - They were older
people - if there's truth to the assertion that age has come influence
on sensitivity. It doesn't hurt my ears, so I don't complain. I thought
for a while that perhaps I was losing my hearing, but I had a hearing
test recently and my doctor told me my hearing is in perfect shape -
whatever that means.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 20 16:37:29 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:37:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <2180A7A1-1EC5-430F-A0A8-58F45D535940@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c7cb26$f05b2790$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Damon Smith
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07

Evan Parker's solo soprano cd "Lines Burnt in Light" should work. If  
they persist you can move on to Wolfgang Fuchs' solo sopranino tracks  
on "Bits and Pieces" or hire Jacob Lindsay to play his Ab clarinet in  
person.


PG:
Lines Burnt in Light is one of my favorite solo recordings!

I only wish my neighbors would play it instead of rolling their
pimped-out SUV into their driveway at 3 am with the low-end bass thing
roaring through my apartment.


From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 18:56:31 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <000b01c7cb26$60d005f0$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000b01c7cb26$60d005f0$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201848120.9241@myfiles.mills.edu>


> A few people - I'd say three or four - have heard you doing that in
> performance and come up to me afterward and asked, "Why does that guy do
> that - doesn't he know it really hurts our ears?"

wow -  i wish they would have come up to me and 
said that so i could have apologized - it''s not my intent at all to get 
that reaction - how depressing...

From philipgelb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 20 19:12:03 2007
From: philipgelb at sbcglobal.net (Philip Gelb)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:12:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] only apartment of pain was Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <C2C67A07.1EFD9%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <247041.20421.qm@web83713.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I personally love John Bischoff's music as he is one
of my favorite computer musicians. But i found some of
his earlier CDs were very helpful in dealing with some
problems i had with neighbors several years ago.
Sorry John :)

phil

--- Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:

> Now there's a question I have - that combines
> acoustic science and music -
> what music works best for cancelling out the
> annoying sounds of one's
> neighbors. I live above a fellow that will
> occasionally break out the
> groove-funk organ and a smattering of smooth jazz.
> Something death
> metal-like seemed to do the trick.  But Mr. Smith's
> screaming small child
> would have different sonic properties.
> 
> sl
> 
> 
> 
> Der Damon wrote:
> I have to say I love Sachiko M and Nakamura, but the
> piercing screams
> of the toddler next door who is a casualty of poor
> parenting (even by
> Bay Area standards) is getting to be unbearable.
> The Japanese improvisors pitches are higher, but the
> Oakland toddler
> has more power behind it's screeches - unless it 
> gets to the point
> of having to fight fire with fire, then the sine
> waves get blasted
> and at least the "parents" shut the doors and
> windows.
> 
> Damon Smith
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


Philip Gelb
shakuhachi player, teacher
vegetarian chef
http://philipgelb.com
http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood
http://myspace.com/philipgelb

From phil at philipgelb.com  Fri Jul 20 19:15:46 2007
From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <000b01c7cb26$60d005f0$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
> 
> of course i would believe them! - i think what i'm
> saying is "pain" is 
> pretty vague - 
> even the acoustics books equate "pain" with
> "sensation" - and
> "Sensation" 
> is what it's all about!!
> 
> and just to be clear, i don't think i've ever had
> anyone ~say~ the high 
> clarinet stuff was painful

are you being serious here? I often thought you did
htat kind of playing to piss people off and see what
kind of reaction you would get. :)

phil

Philip Gelb
shakuhachi player, teacher
vegetarian chef
http://philipgelb.com
http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood
http://myspace.com/philipgelb

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 20 19:19:40 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:19:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707201848120.9241@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c7cb3d$98aa2700$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07

wow -  i wish they would have come up to me and 
said that so i could have apologized - it''s not my intent at all to get

that reaction - how depressing...
 

PG:
It is depressing, especially since in each case, I said, "you should
talk to Matt about it - just ask him about the sounds, try to find out
what he's doing with them, what it is he wants to explore with them -
and let him know how they affect you."
 
The real drag, in my opinion is that we're doing what we do - and I'm
under the impression that what we do is "express ourselves" and we go to
great lengths to do it, but the audience, the people who we are seeking
communion with on some level - are (more often than not) not willing to
make a step toward having some kind of dialogue. I don't understand
that.


From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 21:19:36 2007
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 21:19:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <51D33B2D-1DC0-4C5B-81AA-A3418AFEA9CD@pacbell.net>
References: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<51D33B2D-1DC0-4C5B-81AA-A3418AFEA9CD@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <317505170707202119u5239b60bj6851c6f62ff892f7@mail.gmail.com>

no john! i would never play in Deaf-Mute Socialite with a 12 watt amp.

john/matt/gino/tom/tim's set was definitely waaaaay less loud than
Mute's. it was a great set in general and i must say i was in heaven
during the high frequency-exploration sections. i'm always really
confused when people get upset by extremely high frequencies, cause i
tend to love them. and if high frequencies "clean your ears out", well
i think of clean ears as a very nice thing! there's an Otomo Yoshihide
record called Cathode with a lot of high-range sine tones in it that i
really like falling asleep to.. most other people i've played it for
have reacted with a "make that sound go away NOW!" though..




On 7/20/07, John Shiurba <shiurba at pacbell.net> wrote:
> difference tones can certainly tickle your ears, and your mileage may
> vary from amusement to torment, but there's no question whatsoever
> that this has nothing to do with volume. anyone who sat through the
> Mute Socialite set 20 minutes earlier heard sounds that were
> exponentially louder than anything that happened during the set in
> question. if you don't believe me, just ask Ava if she'd be willing
> to do a Mute Socialite gig with the 12 watt Fender Princeton that I
> was using (with the volume knob set to 3). can you say "air guitar"?
>
> On Jul 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
>
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:06:58 -0700
> > From: Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
> > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> >> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that
> >> freak you
> >> out?
> >
> > It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
> > clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
> > during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
> > loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
ole ole ole ole, dark foo-ne-ral..

www.avamendoza.com
www.myspace.com/avamendoza
www.myspace.com/mutesocialite

From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 22:13:05 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 22:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>


> are you being serious here?

TOTALLY!

> I often thought you did
> htat kind of playing to piss people off and see what
> kind of reaction you would get. :)

you actually thought that?!?  why on earth would i do that?
what a waste of time -- besides, pissing off the audience is SOOOO 20th 
century...

-m


From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 20 22:22:02 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 22:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <317505170707202119u5239b60bj6851c6f62ff892f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<51D33B2D-1DC0-4C5B-81AA-A3418AFEA9CD@pacbell.net>
	<317505170707202119u5239b60bj6851c6f62ff892f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202213460.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>


bass much harder for me to deal with  -- i still remember that yoshihide 
show with the turntable surround videos at the compound a few years ago..

the most extreme i've heard recently was that royoji ikeda thing last year 
(or year before?) at RML -- the subwoofers literally made my entire body 
tense up and drenched in sweat ( but none of that had to do with 
the ear, i think) -- and i'm sure it wasn't even the loudest thing RML has 
put on!

-m


On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, Ava Mendoza wrote:

> no john! i would never play in Deaf-Mute Socialite with a 12 watt amp.
>
> john/matt/gino/tom/tim's set was definitely waaaaay less loud than
> Mute's. it was a great set in general and i must say i was in heaven
> during the high frequency-exploration sections. i'm always really
> confused when people get upset by extremely high frequencies, cause i
> tend to love them. and if high frequencies "clean your ears out", well
> i think of clean ears as a very nice thing! there's an Otomo Yoshihide
> record called Cathode with a lot of high-range sine tones in it that i
> really like falling asleep to.. most other people i've played it for
> have reacted with a "make that sound go away NOW!" though..
>
>
>
>
> On 7/20/07, John Shiurba <shiurba at pacbell.net> wrote:
>> difference tones can certainly tickle your ears, and your mileage may
>> vary from amusement to torment, but there's no question whatsoever
>> that this has nothing to do with volume. anyone who sat through the
>> Mute Socialite set 20 minutes earlier heard sounds that were
>> exponentially louder than anything that happened during the set in
>> question. if you don't believe me, just ask Ava if she'd be willing
>> to do a Mute Socialite gig with the 12 watt Fender Princeton that I
>> was using (with the volume knob set to 3). can you say "air guitar"?
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2007, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
>>
>>> Message: 10
>>> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:06:58 -0700
>>> From: Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>> Message-ID:
>>>       <473c28030707191506y1e5ddabbg8892533430d867d9 at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>>> painful? are you sure it's not just the difference tones that
>>>> freak you
>>>> out?
>>>
>>> It could have been the trumpet? Or even the oscillator? I should
>>> clarify, something was too loud during that set, and several others
>>> during the day's performance. Many people like listening to really
>>> loud music, I tolerate it better with ear plugs.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> --
> ole ole ole ole, dark foo-ne-ral..
>
> www.avamendoza.com
> www.myspace.com/avamendoza
> www.myspace.com/mutesocialite
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From tim at perkis.com  Fri Jul 20 23:05:51 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:05:51 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07 - passive audiences
In-Reply-To: <000001c7cb3d$98aa2700$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7cb3d$98aa2700$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <46A1A23F.9010509@perkis.com>



Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> The real drag, in my opinion is that we're doing what we do - and I'm
> under the impression that what we do is "express ourselves" and we go to
> great lengths to do it, but the audience, the people who we are seeking
> communion with on some level - are (more often than not) not willing to
> make a step toward having some kind of dialogue. I don't understand
> that.
>   
I feel like I've finally gotten that. The fact is that most people are 
really shy and lack self-confidence about their own musical abilities or 
even right to have opinions, oddly enough. (Chalk that up to another
soul-destroying effect of our educational system, combined with musical 
consumerism.)

I learned this when we were building easy-to-use experimental musical 
instruments/toys for museums, that people could play together and make 
some nice sounding stuff without any musical skill. Seems like a fun 
no-brainer, but
many many people just feel exposed and embarrassed and dont want to 
play.  It's really very sad -- seems that at one
time nearly everyone was musically active; now nearly everyone has music 
in their environment constantly,
but mostly they are completely musically passive.

A lot of the responses I've got to Noisy People have reinforced this 
perception as well:  what we all take for granted,
the sense coming from us all that we're willing to just try this or that 
-- this itself is a big revelation to people, and a source
of novelty, excitement and inspiration.

It's great that you, and so many other musicians,  want to open up a 
dialogue with the audience. It's a real uphill
battle, but one worth getting into.

T


From jfheule at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 03:49:43 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:49:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202213460.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<51D33B2D-1DC0-4C5B-81AA-A3418AFEA9CD@pacbell.net>
	<317505170707202119u5239b60bj6851c6f62ff892f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202213460.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707210349g57f5910p4046b32b1aa1b72@mail.gmail.com>

The Zbigniew Karkowski show was the loudest thing I've experienced at
RML. It basically wasn't even music. The sound pressure waves had a
much more significant effect on my body as a whole than on my ears. Of
course, this was the best show I've experienced there.

jacob

On 7/20/07, Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:
>
> bass much harder for me to deal with  -- i still remember that yoshihide
> show with the turntable surround videos at the compound a few years ago..
>
> the most extreme i've heard recently was that royoji ikeda thing last year
> (or year before?) at RML -- the subwoofers literally made my entire body
> tense up and drenched in sweat ( but none of that had to do with
> the ear, i think) -- and i'm sure it wasn't even the loudest thing RML has
> put on!
>
> -m


-- 
http://ettrick.org
http://myspace.com/ettrick
http://heule.us
http://myspace.com/jacobfelix

From cypod25 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 10:39:05 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:39:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] not really Skr~ Demand ISO 226:2003 compliant
	musicians!!!
In-Reply-To: <48542.96694.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20070720204155.29560.qmail@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<48542.96694.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <473c28030707211039t7658baa9kcc3bd73145d73ad5@mail.gmail.com>

Set to the volume, that I like to listen my ipod at, the music is completely
masked by train noises while riding through the transbay tube on bart. Most
people just crank it up, others get those noise canceling headphones. I got
some some of those ear muffs, that block sound, like the construction
workers or airport baggage handlers wear. Then I just put the normal earbuds
underneath them.


For example:
http://tinyurl.com/38sttp

There a little funny looking, I admit, but they make for an enjoyable
listening experience even in a noise location. Sometimes when I do visuals
and they stick right next to the giant tower of speakers and subs, I wear
them too.

Some music is meant to be played at extreme volume. This music is supposed
to be felt visceral instead of just heard. For this type of loud music
turning down the ears exposure with some earplugs is the best option. Some
progressive venues, like Recombinant Media Labs, recognizing this and even
have an earplug dispenser located as you enter the performance area.



On 7/20/07, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I've always been distrustful of those "noise
> > cancelling" headphones, as they seem to put as much
> > (if not more) pressure on your eardrums than the
> > irritating loud noise that you were listening to...
>
> Listener fatigue perhaps?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listener_fatigue
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> ________________________
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From cypod25 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 11:43:56 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:43:56 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>

Usually sound becomes painful when it stops being a pitched noise and
instead is a shshsh type sound, i.e. all cilia in cochlea have been
triggered, no more ability to detect pitch in a harmonic register.
I am willing to believe that the clarinet was not too loud. Most like it was
the combination of sounds that peaked beyond the amplitude level of personal
comfort. Then the question becomes why did the clarinet initially get
singled out? And since we're on the subject of music as scientific
experiment, my hypothesis is, because of the unusual register which it was
played.

Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it as an
extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new music, is
that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have heard and
determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of new music
how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or merely
rehashing the past.

My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and combine
it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your polyphonic
melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed with those
of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
introducing them to some stylistic innovation.


On 7/20/07, Matt J. Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:
>
>
> > are you being serious here?
>
> TOTALLY!
>
> > I often thought you did
> > htat kind of playing to piss people off and see what
> > kind of reaction you would get. :)
>
> you actually thought that?!?  why on earth would i do that?
> what a waste of time -- besides, pissing off the audience is SOOOO 20th
> century...
>
> -m
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sat Jul 21 11:51:43 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:51:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68A6F1AC-E3EE-41FC-B8EE-B1647BB01C25@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 21, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Cypod wrote:

> Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it as an
> extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new  
> music, is
> that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have  
> heard and
> determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
> accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of  
> new music
> how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or merely
> rehashing the past.
>
> My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and  
> combine
> it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your  
> polyphonic
> melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed  
> with those
> of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
> introducing them to some stylistic innovation.

- People should play what they want to play. If you don't like it  
don't listen to it. People who need "reaching out to" generally are  
not suited for music and art that requires being able to form your  
own opinions. Curious individuals will fid their way to things that  
interest them.

It looks like you can download Radulesu's awesome piece for 8  
clarinets in high register here:
http://classicalconnection.blogspot.com/2006/06/note_30.html


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From cypod25 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 12:04:05 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:04:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <68A6F1AC-E3EE-41FC-B8EE-B1647BB01C25@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
	<68A6F1AC-E3EE-41FC-B8EE-B1647BB01C25@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <473c28030707211204j687f766ewb04603ea191badea@mail.gmail.com>

I suppose that is well and good if your happy preaching to the choir

On 7/21/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Cypod wrote:
>
> > Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it as an
> > extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new
> > music, is
> > that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have
> > heard and
> > determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
> > accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of
> > new music
> > how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or merely
> > rehashing the past.
> >
> > My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and
> > combine
> > it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your
> > polyphonic
> > melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed
> > with those
> > of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
> > introducing them to some stylistic innovation.
>
> - People should play what they want to play. If you don't like it
> don't listen to it. People who need "reaching out to" generally are
> not suited for music and art that requires being able to form your
> own opinions. Curious individuals will fid their way to things that
> interest them.
>
> It looks like you can download Radulesu's awesome piece for 8
> clarinets in high register here:
> http://classicalconnection.blogspot.com/2006/06/note_30.html
>
>
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From michaelz at zoka.com  Sat Jul 21 12:54:19 2007
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:54:19 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202213460.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1184904001.2722.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<51D33B2D-1DC0-4C5B-81AA-A3418AFEA9CD@pacbell.net>
	<317505170707202119u5239b60bj6851c6f62ff892f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202213460.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <p06020428c2c81404de55@[192.168.0.5]>

On 7/20/07, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:

>bass much harder for me to deal with  -- i still remember that yoshihide
>show with the turntable surround videos at the compound a few years ago..

Now available for listening in the comfort (?) of your own home:

Otomo Yosihide - The Multiple Otomo Project
<http://asphodel.com/releases/view.php?Id=98>

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 12:57:14 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:57:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Youtube clip of the week
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707211257k527f1714keb83a0a033f459df@mail.gmail.com>

Jesse Quattro sings "Somewhere over the rainbow"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZiyAEc8YP6g&mode=related&search=

From michaelz at zoka.com  Sat Jul 21 13:45:02 2007
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:45:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
Message-ID: <p0602042bc2c81f8d94d9@[192.168.0.5]>

All this talk of the effects of loud sound raises the musical question:

>Do fish suffer from exposure to Uriah Heep?
>
>Fri Jul 20, 11:03 AM ET
>
>HELSINKI (Reuters) - A Finnish researcher is to study fish in an 
>aquarium while a rock group performs nearby, to see if the sound 
>causes any ill-effects or distress.
>
>Bands including aging rockers Uriah Heep will perform on Friday 
>night to about 3,000 fans in a tent just a couple of dozen metres 
>away from the aquarium.
>
>"I will be looking for any abnormal behavior or activity," said 
>researcher Mikko Erkinaro.
>
>The 500,000-liter tank is home to salmon, trout, pike and perch and 
>other species common in Finland's brackish coastal waters.
>
>"It could be quite nasty to arrange such an aquarium and a 
>performance venue (so close)," Erkinaro said, "especially when the 
>(band) is a bit old-fashioned."

<http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070720/od_nm/fish1_dc>


MZ




--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 13:52:09 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:52:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <p0602042bc2c81f8d94d9@192.168.0.5>
References: <p0602042bc2c81f8d94d9@192.168.0.5>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707211352u6e8f9fe5l1b463d4cf5135f5e@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/21/07, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:
> All this talk of the effects of loud sound raises the musical question:
>
> >Do fish suffer from exposure to Uriah Heep?

Unknown -- but my parrot doesn't like certain music made by Gino,
and Celeste Hutchins.  When she hears those certain pieces, she
warns me of danger.

P.

-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 13:57:49 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:57:49 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Games night again
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707211357i328eec86k8123d8a5f3064a79@mail.gmail.com>

I'm having another games night at my house tomorrow (sunday) night at 7pm.
Address is 265 Vernon St., #201
Phone is 510-268-8213.

...Kind of off topic yes, but it's a chance for a get together with music folks.
We'll order food. Bring your own beer. I'll have soda/tea/juice.

Matt

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>

Hello people,

I'd like to invite you to a 'games night' at my house on July 8th, a
week from Sunday. We'll order some food and play some fun stuff. My
favorites that I have:

Settlers of Catan
Wise and Otherwise
Apples to Apples
Scattergories

Some of you probably haven't heard of the first 3. Go ahead and look
'em up on Wikipedia. Feel free to bring other games, ipods, a cd or
two and such.

Matt

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sat Jul 21 14:22:00 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:22:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707211204j687f766ewb04603ea191badea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
	<68A6F1AC-E3EE-41FC-B8EE-B1647BB01C25@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<473c28030707211204j687f766ewb04603ea191badea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04E357A7-1FAB-4EA9-8C86-99900C302658@balancepointacoustics.com>

I am not preacher and I don't have choir. I am musician. I like to  
play for people who want to listen.

On Jul 21, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Cypod wrote:

> I suppose that is well and good if your happy preaching to the choir
>
> On 7/21/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jul 21, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Cypod wrote:
>>
>>> Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it  
>>> as an
>>> extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new
>>> music, is
>>> that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have
>>> heard and
>>> determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
>>> accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of
>>> new music
>>> how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or  
>>> merely
>>> rehashing the past.
>>>
>>> My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and
>>> combine
>>> it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your
>>> polyphonic
>>> melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed
>>> with those
>>> of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
>>> introducing them to some stylistic innovation.
>>
>> - People should play what they want to play. If you don't like it
>> don't listen to it. People who need "reaching out to" generally are
>> not suited for music and art that requires being able to form your
>> own opinions. Curious individuals will fid their way to things that
>> interest them.
>>
>> It looks like you can download Radulesu's awesome piece for 8
>> clarinets in high register here:
>> http://classicalconnection.blogspot.com/2006/06/note_30.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Damon Smith
>>
>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> B~
> www.cypod.co.nr
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From cypod25 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 15:20:46 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 15:20:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <04E357A7-1FAB-4EA9-8C86-99900C302658@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
	<68A6F1AC-E3EE-41FC-B8EE-B1647BB01C25@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<473c28030707211204j687f766ewb04603ea191badea@mail.gmail.com>
	<04E357A7-1FAB-4EA9-8C86-99900C302658@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <473c28030707211520r66d3da30sfb5ccf4d513b10d3@mail.gmail.com>

There is a tendency towards the ghettoisation of Avant-garde. A certain
safety in the attitude," I'm going to toot my horn, and don't care what
anyone thinks." It also relegates Avant-garde to the Ivory towers of
academia, and eventual funding issues.
In the spirit of "wow -  i wish they would have come up to me," I merely
suggested more macro-composition and less micro-composition. The listener
does not have to listen, and the performer does not have to follow the
suggestion. Lets put some cheese on the broccoli.





On 7/21/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>
> I am not preacher and I don't have choir. I am musician. I like to
> play for people who want to listen.
>
> On Jul 21, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Cypod wrote:
>
> > I suppose that is well and good if your happy preaching to the choir
> >
> > On 7/21/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jul 21, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Cypod wrote:
> >>
> >>> Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it
> >>> as an
> >>> extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new
> >>> music, is
> >>> that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have
> >>> heard and
> >>> determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
> >>> accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of
> >>> new music
> >>> how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or
> >>> merely
> >>> rehashing the past.
> >>>
> >>> My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and
> >>> combine
> >>> it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your
> >>> polyphonic
> >>> melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed
> >>> with those
> >>> of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
> >>> introducing them to some stylistic innovation.
> >>
> >> - People should play what they want to play. If you don't like it
> >> don't listen to it. People who need "reaching out to" generally are
> >> not suited for music and art that requires being able to form your
> >> own opinions. Curious individuals will fid their way to things that
> >> interest them.
> >>
> >> It looks like you can download Radulesu's awesome piece for 8
> >> clarinets in high register here:
> >> http://classicalconnection.blogspot.com/2006/06/note_30.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Damon Smith
> >>
> >> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>
> >> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > B~
> > www.cypod.co.nr
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
>
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sat Jul 21 15:33:19 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 15:33:19 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707211520r66d3da30sfb5ccf4d513b10d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901c7cbe7$24508890$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Cypod
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07

There is a tendency towards the ghettoisation of Avant-garde. A certain
safety in the attitude," I'm going to toot my horn, and don't care what
anyone thinks."

PG:
I'm a bit confused by your term "ghettoisation" in this context. I'm
assuming you mean that by sticking to your guns by hell or high water,
you're alienating listeners and keeping yourself huddled in a place
where your listeners are few - therefore the "economic status" of your
work remains situated in a low-rent location...

I don't think there's much safety in maintaining a no-compromise
attitude as an artist - quite the opposite, really. I think the
obligation we have instead is to do our best to explain the work as we
present it. When I play with shudder, for example, I usually try to tell
the audience that the "new" (you can hardly call it that at this point)
aspect of electro-acoustic music is that acoustic instruments are now
exploring the language of electronic music - we've been asking
electronic instruments to play in the language of acoustic music for
decades - this is something fairly new on the grand scheme of things. 

Just a little description like that helps the listener understand what
your goals are. I always receive comments from the listeners that they
appreciate that kind of explanation. No, not everyone is into the "avant
garde", or whatever you want to call it these days. I don't think we
have to cow down to our listeners, but it really helps to build a bridge
for them to come across to what you're doing. Just talking to the
audience seems to put them at ease, and I'm fine with that - I like
words. I don't think providing a little bit of explanation is
compromising at all - it allows you to do what you want - follow your
instincts, remain true to your artistic vision, while allowing the
audience to better understand what it is you're doing. I find that more
people come up to me to talk to me about shows when I talk to the
audience. When I don't for whatever reasons I might have on any given
night, I find that the audience keeps its distance. Of course, when
you're playing at 21 Grand or somewhere like that and you look out into
the audience and see most of your musician friends, it's easy to think
there's no reason to address the listeners. But for those three or four
people who might be in the audience (and probably feel distinctly
alienated because everyone seems to know everyone else in the room) I
think it's a mistake to assume that everyone that is listening knows
what you're up to.


From ingalls at mills.edu  Sat Jul 21 18:20:30 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:20:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707211520r66d3da30sfb5ccf4d513b10d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
	<68A6F1AC-E3EE-41FC-B8EE-B1647BB01C25@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<473c28030707211204j687f766ewb04603ea191badea@mail.gmail.com>
	<04E357A7-1FAB-4EA9-8C86-99900C302658@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<473c28030707211520r66d3da30sfb5ccf4d513b10d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707211806420.23423@myfiles.mills.edu>

> There is a tendency towards the ghettoisation of Avant-garde. A certain
> safety in the attitude," I'm going to toot my horn, and don't care what
> anyone thinks." It also relegates Avant-garde to the Ivory towers of
> academia, and eventual funding issues.

huh? academia rolls its eyes at the avant garde.

> In the spirit of "wow -  i wish they would have come up to me," I merely
> suggested more macro-composition and less micro-composition. The listener

since you are quoting me i assume this is directed at me -- which i 
would then think you must have never listened (or paid attention) to me 
perform.

-m

From ingalls at mills.edu  Sat Jul 21 18:47:31 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:47:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <001901c7cbe7$24508890$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <001901c7cbe7$24508890$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707211821460.23423@myfiles.mills.edu>


i have mixed feelings about this.  as an audience member i HATE to 
be told how to listen to something.
  but i do acknowledge that i am not the norm -- 
most people do seem to love spoken introductions to "new music" - even 
when it's slathered in BS.

for me the priority has always been to convey a sense of commitment and 
intimacy with the music and trust any listener with an open mind will 
sense that and if the music is good, they come along for the ride..
( but  recently seems like i am less successful at this than i thought )

now of course "reading your audience" and taking the context of the 
performance as a factor never hurt (and that is much easier to do in 
improvisation than composition)

-m


don't think there's much safety in maintaining a no-compromise
> attitude as an artist - quite the opposite, really. I think the
> obligation we have instead is to do our best to explain the work as we
> present it. When I play with shudder, for example, I usually try to tell
> the audience that the "new" (you can hardly call it that at this point)
> aspect of electro-acoustic music is that acoustic instruments are now
> exploring the language of electronic music - we've been asking
> electronic instruments to play in the language of acoustic music for
> decades - this is something fairly new on the grand scheme of things.
>
> Just a little description like that helps the listener understand what
> your goals are. I always receive comments from the listeners that they
> appreciate that kind of explanation. No, not everyone is into the "avant
> garde", or whatever you want to call it these days. I don't think we
> have to cow down to our listeners, but it really helps to build a bridge
> for them to come across to what you're doing. Just talking to the
> audience seems to put them at ease, and I'm fine with that - I like
> words. I don't think providing a little bit of explanation is
> compromising at all - it allows you to do what you want - follow your
> instincts, remain true to your artistic vision, while allowing the
> audience to better understand what it is you're doing. I find that more
> people come up to me to talk to me about shows when I talk to the
> audience. When I don't for whatever reasons I might have on any given
> night, I find that the audience keeps its distance. Of course, when
> you're playing at 21 Grand or somewhere like that and you look out into
> the audience and see most of your musician friends, it's easy to think
> there's no reason to address the listeners. But for those three or four
> people who might be in the audience (and probably feel distinctly
> alienated because everyone seems to know everyone else in the room) I
> think it's a mistake to assume that everyone that is listening knows
> what you're up to.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 20:57:22 2007
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:57:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <238329.68033.qm@web83728.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707202158140.13250@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <317505170707212057q3c4232dfyf11fdb17ba68f397@mail.gmail.com>

> Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it as an
> extension of their personal style. ...

> My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and combine
> it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your polyphonic
> melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed with those
> of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
> introducing them to some stylistic innovation.


i know for me a big part of what initially got me into improvised
music was that i was totally bewildered by--it made me really
uncomfortable, and i couldn't really relate to it except in very
abstract emotional terms. that was fascinating though. i was also
really compelled by the fact that the performers i initially heard
were clearly totally committed and uninhibited while they were
playing. if i had instead encountered improvisers who were trying to
hold their audience by the hand in some way i think i would have been
really turned off actually..

to me improvised music is about intimate personal expression.. it's a
great feeling to know you've communicated with your audience when it
happens, but i think it kind of defeats the purpose if you force it--
i.e. if you try to directly "explain" the music to the audience, or if
you have a "how to best hold audience attention" agenda in mind while
you're playing..

From jmojingle at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 21 23:58:20 2007
From: jmojingle at yahoo.com (John Ingle)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707211143g7f80542co7209ae6055da68a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <198165.79035.qm@web50504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I probably should resist my more base urges to express my incredulity toward your advice for matt, buttttttttt, I must say that it is you Cyborg 25 that should take your own advice. Your suggestion to matt to " mix it up" is naive as best and assine at worse, in my opinion. You make the music you hear and like and leave his choices out of it..
  Again, I have to assume that you're pretty inexperienced to try to tell someone else what to play.
   
  Go out and win your new audiences with a James Galway approach to new music. Great, I personally have no problem with that at all. Do what you what and love and most importantly make it honest.But know what it is your doing and leave people doing other things our of you aesthetic.
   
  THAT's my advice. Only given since you jumped in the advice colume yourself.
   
  familiar register????
  You are a musician, correct? I'm familiar with a few registers, from low to high. Maybe an unfamiliar regester is the one in which I can't hear anymore since I'm so darn old...
   
  The idea is to make music, to have an idea, to be able to execute it in service ot the idea and not just not the executionm  itself, and to care about what you're doing.
   
  I can't believe I'm typing this as I'm out of town working and exhausted; but, really Cyborg, what are you thinking about?
   
  Since I'm matt's friend and colloborator, I don't want anyone to percieve that this is some knee jerk response in his defense. I guess Cyborg's comments are so, uhhhh, offensive to me that I had to jump out of my out -of- town lurking on the list.
   
  No hard feelings I hope, but really......
   
  jingle
   
   
  ps. I would kid matt about all this praise about his technique... hmmmmm, I'm hearing he should woodshed a little...(insert sarcatic yet good natured icon here)
  
Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com> wrote:
  Usually sound becomes painful when it stops being a pitched noise and
instead is a shshsh type sound, i.e. all cilia in cochlea have been
triggered, no more ability to detect pitch in a harmonic register.
I am willing to believe that the clarinet was not too loud. Most like it was
the combination of sounds that peaked beyond the amplitude level of personal
comfort. Then the question becomes why did the clarinet initially get
singled out? And since we're on the subject of music as scientific
experiment, my hypothesis is, because of the unusual register which it was
played.

Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it as an
extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new music, is
that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have heard and
determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of new music
how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or merely
rehashing the past.

My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and combine
it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your polyphonic
melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed with those
of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
introducing them to some stylistic innovation.


On 7/20/07, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
>
>
> > are you being serious here?
>
> TOTALLY!
>
> > I often thought you did
> > htat kind of playing to piss people off and see what
> > kind of reaction you would get. :)
>
> you actually thought that?!? why on earth would i do that?
> what a waste of time -- besides, pissing off the audience is SOOOO 20th
> century...
>
> -m
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
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From jmojingle at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 22 00:03:28 2007
From: jmojingle at yahoo.com (John Ingle)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <198165.79035.qm@web50504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <363393.83266.qm@web50504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

perhaps some sleep and rest will help me from the many typos and crappy spelling next time,  maybe even mellow me out a bit....

John Ingle <jmojingle at yahoo.com> wrote:  I probably should resist my more base urges to express my incredulity toward your advice for matt, buttttttttt, I must say that it is you Cyborg 25 that should take your own advice. Your suggestion to matt to " mix it up" is naive as best and assine at worse, in my opinion. You make the music you hear and like and leave his choices out of it..
Again, I have to assume that you're pretty inexperienced to try to tell someone else what to play.

Go out and win your new audiences with a James Galway approach to new music. Great, I personally have no problem with that at all. Do what you what and love and most importantly make it honest.But know what it is your doing and leave people doing other things our of you aesthetic.

THAT's my advice. Only given since you jumped in the advice colume yourself.

familiar register????
You are a musician, correct? I'm familiar with a few registers, from low to high. Maybe an unfamiliar regester is the one in which I can't hear anymore since I'm so darn old...

The idea is to make music, to have an idea, to be able to execute it in service ot the idea and not just not the executionm itself, and to care about what you're doing.

I can't believe I'm typing this as I'm out of town working and exhausted; but, really Cyborg, what are you thinking about?

Since I'm matt's friend and colloborator, I don't want anyone to percieve that this is some knee jerk response in his defense. I guess Cyborg's comments are so, uhhhh, offensive to me that I had to jump out of my out -of- town lurking on the list.

No hard feelings I hope, but really......

jingle


ps. I would kid matt about all this praise about his technique... hmmmmm, I'm hearing he should woodshed a little...(insert sarcatic yet good natured icon here)

Cypod wrote:
Usually sound becomes painful when it stops being a pitched noise and
instead is a shshsh type sound, i.e. all cilia in cochlea have been
triggered, no more ability to detect pitch in a harmonic register.
I am willing to believe that the clarinet was not too loud. Most like it was
the combination of sounds that peaked beyond the amplitude level of personal
comfort. Then the question becomes why did the clarinet initially get
singled out? And since we're on the subject of music as scientific
experiment, my hypothesis is, because of the unusual register which it was
played.

Audiences want to own the music that they hear, and perceive it as an
extension of their personal style. One of the challenges of new music, is
that listeners can not compare it to other music that they have heard and
determine whether to accept or decline. if it does not fall into the
accepted category then most often it is dismissed. As creators of new music
how are we to reach out to audiences without alienating them or merely
rehashing the past.

My advice is to mix it up. Play something that is more familiar and combine
it with something unusual. Try adding register transfers to your polyphonic
melody. By playing some notes in a familiar register juxtaposed with those
of other octaves, you can connect with the new audience while still
introducing them to some stylistic innovation.


On 7/20/07, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
>
>
> > are you being serious here?
>
> TOTALLY!
>
> > I often thought you did
> > htat kind of playing to piss people off and see what
> > kind of reaction you would get. :)
>
> you actually thought that?!? why on earth would i do that?
> what a waste of time -- besides, pissing off the audience is SOOOO 20th
> century...
>
> -m
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



---------------------------------
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_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
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From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 22 00:33:10 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:33:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707211821460.23423@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <003001c7cc32$8e832920$4001a8c0@PG>

----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matt J. Ingalls
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:48 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07


i have mixed feelings about this.  as an audience member i HATE to 
be told how to listen to something.
  but i do acknowledge that i am not the norm -- 
most people do seem to love spoken introductions to "new music" - even 
when it's slathered in BS.

PG:
I would hesitate to tell anyone how to listen to the music. Do you think
that revealing your goal(s) (I use this term loosely) in a composition
is doing that? Isn't that what program notes are? sfSound usually
provides program notes...


From magsatellite at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 22 00:46:36 2007
From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] dialog etc..
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1185076802.5607.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <168010.22554.qm@web43139.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


> It's great that you, and so many other musicians,  want to open up a 
> dialogue with the audience. It's a real uphill
> battle, but one worth getting into.
> 
> T


in re: this
i had a really funny experience about two weeks ago playing at a new venue in
447 25th st, essenially an artist's space that she had opened for some shows
that anne hege was curating. so the audience were, uh.. older gallery goers?
mostly, not entirely. but a guy played jazz-ish guitar solo on 7 string before
me, then i played two computers, electric guitar and violin, a mic on some
glasses with teeth and rocks in them (my normal stuff, in other words. though i
could be really quiet in the space which was cool.) 
anyway, the audience listened intently to each piece, but in between they
erupted in questions! so at least a quarter of the concert time was q&a. it was
pretty cool actually, each section informed what i did next. for example, some
people asked how i did what i did, then after explaining a bit about sample
manipulation and granular synthesis, the next questions were about the semantic
ramifications, i.e., how little of a phrase or note can you use while still
retaining its information. then sets of questions about what choices i allow
the computers to make. 
i uploaded it to archive.org wihtout the q&a in between, maybe that was a
mistake...
http://www.archive.org/details/jsegel2007-07-12


MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel 
magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com
http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com


       
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From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 22 00:55:14 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 00:55:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Room - mate wanted!
In-Reply-To: <001901c7cbe7$24508890$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <003201c7cc35$a3ff2990$4001a8c0@PG>

Dear bListers,

Sorry to clog the list with a little off-topic announcement, but if you
read this, you'll see it's BA NEW MUS friendly...and, maybe one of you
is looking for a place to live???

Cheers,
PG

A friend of mine is moving from SF to Oakland. She's landed a really
great place, but she needs a room-mate to make it work. Here are some
details:

Room: $700 a month

Location: Mac Arthur Blvd - near 40th. Oakland - seems like a safe
pocket on this street.

Size: 3 bedroom, LARGE living room/shared/common space (actually
two-rooms technically), room/space for artists to share a "workshop"
space on a converted back service-porch. Large kitchen, one bathroom (I
think, maybe 1.5), closets, large backyard, large driveway for parking
multiple cars, etc. This is an upstairs unit.

Room-mate: Youthful woman of 50, teacher, artist (writes plays, songs,
sings, draws), is really into BANEWMUS scene, and has probably heard
most of you. She offers an artist friendly cooperative atmosphere. You
would share this place with her, and on infrequent occasions when her
daughter might visit (she has just moved to the east coast to go to
school at Bard College).

No move-in fee, just your first month's rent.

Call Susan: (415) 378-2734 (cell)

The landlord seems really cool and has deducted rent price in
negotiation because Susan is a teacher.

This has to happen soon - she wants to move in August 1st.

Feel free to forward this to anyone you know!

Cheers,
PG


From cypod25 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 22 01:00:47 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:00:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <003001c7cc32$8e832920$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707211821460.23423@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<003001c7cc32$8e832920$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <473c28030707220100k11c87149g8b0afd3af43c8a55@mail.gmail.com>

It would appear from the responses that some people on the list have
misunderstood me, I know its difficult to listen to, much less accept the
unfamiliar. Basically there is this stylistic innovation, that I think would
be cool to pair with some more traditional contrapuntal technique.
Specifically, 3rd species at a ratio of one whole bass note to four extended
harmonic quarter notes. Maybe its too controversial to discuss music theory
on the list? I guess that's just the electronic musician in me, always
trying to remix things.

-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 22 01:22:20 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:22:20 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] dialog etc..
In-Reply-To: <168010.22554.qm@web43139.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003001c7cc39$6c9b2ea0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of J. Segel
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:47 AM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: [NewMusic] dialog etc..


in re: this
i had a really funny experience about two weeks ago playing at a new
venue in
447 25th st, essenially an artist's space that she had opened for some
shows
that anne hege was curating. so the audience were, uh.. older gallery
goers?
mostly, not entirely. but a guy played jazz-ish guitar solo on 7 string
before
me, then i played two computers, electric guitar and violin, a mic on
some
glasses with teeth and rocks in them (my normal stuff, in other words.
though i
could be really quiet in the space which was cool.) 
anyway, the audience listened intently to each piece, but in between
they
erupted in questions! so at least a quarter of the concert time was q&a.
it was
pretty cool actually, each section informed what i did next. for
example, some
people asked how i did what i did, then after explaining a bit about
sample
manipulation and granular synthesis, the next questions were about the
semantic
ramifications, i.e., how little of a phrase or note can you use while
still
retaining its information. then sets of questions about what choices i
allow
the computers to make. 
i uploaded it to archive.org wihtout the q&a in between, maybe that was
a
mistake...
http://www.archive.org/details/jsegel2007-07-12


PG:
Yeah, and I bet you were playing to what I imagine was largely a room of
non-musicians. At least that's the sound of it.  I don't always want to
hear a lot of talk either, so I think, although I'm contradicting myself
here a little bit (big surprise, right?), that you read your audience
and act accordingly. 

Tonight when I played at Maybeck I talked a little about meeting Lauren
Tietz (the dancer I collaborated with - man did she blow me away tonight
- she is one of the few dancers I've worked with who really gets it -
improvisation, that is - if you're ever in Austin, check her out - ask
her to collaborate if you're interested in that sort of thing -
laurentietz at gmail.com ) and Dottie Grossman (whose poems we were using).
I did that because I want people to know about Dottie - that's why I
chose her work - I want to "present" her along with her work. I didn't
really say anything about the music itself...or what we were
"doing"...yeah, sometimes it's totally obvious, why say anything?

Of course, if I was playing with shudder at 1510 and Ava and few other
friends were the only ones in the room, I wouldn't bother saying
anything...


From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 22 01:47:00 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:47:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] explanations
In-Reply-To: <003001c7cc32$8e832920$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F27FE0428BC7E2F558FB04DC1F60@phx.gbl>


PG wrote:

>Do you think that revealing your goal(s) (I use this term loosely) in a 
>composition is doing that? Isn't that what program notes are? sfSound 
>usually provides program notes...

Yes, we do, and for me, that's where the explanations should
stay. Unless the person talking is very charming and witty,
concert explanations are usually tedious at best. That's why
the symphony has those 'pre-concert lectures' - those who
want more information, get it, and the rest get the uncluttered
experience.

Another great idea is the Rova Improv:21 series, where the
whole point is the explanation, the music is only there to
illustrate the discussion.

-George

_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 22 02:57:52 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 02:57:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
Message-ID: <876990.27792.qm@web50311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hmmmm....perhaps you haven't listened to the "flame wars" that have gone on between traditional improv(ish) people on this list (especially from the blues/jazz/bebop tradition...), and those who "try" to cut the cord (especially from the blues tradition), or assume that there could be another cord (besides the blues tradition)...

also, what you're talking about sounds like figured bass to me, or bach chorals (although I may be a little unclear on the 3rd species term)...which is also incidentally one of the "alternative traditions" that one could follow if one was a traditionalist, and didn't "chose" to subscribe to the current (blues/jazz/bebop) trend...

lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:00:47 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07


It would appear from the responses that some people on the list have
misunderstood me, I know its difficult to listen to, much less accept the
unfamiliar. Basically there is this stylistic innovation, that I think would
be cool to pair with some more traditional contrapuntal technique.
Specifically, 3rd species at a ratio of one whole bass note to four extended
harmonic quarter notes. Maybe its too controversial to discuss music theory
on the list? I guess that's just the electronic musician in me, always
trying to remix things.

-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From jmojingle at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 22 06:47:17 2007
From: jmojingle at yahoo.com (John Ingle)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 06:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Skronkathon 07
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707220100k11c87149g8b0afd3af43c8a55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200440.50552.qm@web50510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Right on there, Cypod. If you have a vision of 16th century counterpoint (species conterpoint) mixed with what you are calling "unfamiliar", do it! My point was more of a social comment than a musical one..i.e. be careful in suggesting to someone else how they could "improve" their own music by adopting your aesthetic. Perhaps a simple solution is to offer your opinions in the context of what YOU are interested in rather than "...I think you should do X with your music"... (of course perhaps I should stick to lurking and muttering to myself what dumbasses everyone else is....(humor)
  I have heard matt do something like what you're talking about in terms of "rational" harmonic movement juxataposed with high electronic-like screaks or artifact glitches that sound like digital clipping. Maybe at the scronkathon the group or m. himself were doing something  else. Music has sound/silence/harmony/timbre/melody/rhythm. One's formal design need not address every musical parameter all the time, huh?
   
  Btw, I always thought Palestrina and that era when species conterponi took hold was much more boring than the less codified music from uhhhhhh, memory, the Ars Nova when the music was rhythmically, or conterpuntally wild. That music (like the French mannerists in the 14? 15? century) was more intersted in rhythm and independence of line than the vertical harmonies of the renaissance. Should I have told Palestrina that he was fucking up????(insert levity here) I did have an old music theoty teacher who lamented the death of melody that species counterpoint ( conventions about how two or more different lines move together to create a harmonic rhythm) inflicted. I think a lot of modern concert music is still dealing with this issue, how harmonic conventions naturally limited the melody/rhythmic axis.
  ok.... enough from me. 
  cheers,
  jingle
  .
   
   
  p.s. Apologies if I over-reacted earlier. sleep is good....
   
   
  
Cypod <cypod25 at gmail.com> wrote:
  It would appear from the responses that some people on the list have
misunderstood me, I know its difficult to listen to, much less accept the
unfamiliar. Basically there is this stylistic innovation, that I think would
be cool to pair with some more traditional contrapuntal technique.
Specifically, 3rd species at a ratio of one whole bass note to four extended
harmonic quarter notes. Maybe its too controversial to discuss music theory
on the list? I guess that's just the electronic musician in me, always
trying to remix things.

-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 22 11:15:18 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:15:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] explanations
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F27FE0428BC7E2F558FB04DC1F60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000401c7cc8c$42b2a480$4001a8c0@PG>

----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of George Cremaschi
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:47 AM
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Subject: [NewMusic] explanations

Another great idea is the Rova Improv:21 series, where the
whole point is the explanation, the music is only there to
illustrate the discussion.

-George

PG:
Yeah, that's brilliant on their part to do that - I always seem to be
engaged on nights when it happens, but one of these days...(I really
wish I could have heard Waddada talk about his music - I was playing
with him a lot there for a while, and I could never get him to talk
about his "ideas" - on the other hand, he was happy to talk about how
Manfred Eicher and other had ripped him off shamelessly.


From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 22 11:51:36 2007
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Youtube clip of the week
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707211257k527f1714keb83a0a033f459df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <261852.99942.qm@web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

fantastic!

--- Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jesse Quattro sings "Somewhere over the rainbow"
>
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZiyAEc8YP6g&mode=related&search=


Ev oida oti oudev oida

http://www.andrewwilshusen.com


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sun Jul 22 13:49:23 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:49:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Shmounterpoint
In-Reply-To: <200440.50552.qm@web50510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <200440.50552.qm@web50510.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <679C8AC6-BFB1-4262-9571-311457CC2EB9@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jul 22, 2007, at 6:47 AM, John Ingle wrote:

> Btw, I always thought Palestrina and that era when species  
> conterponi took hold was much more boring than the less codified  
> music from uhhhhhh, memory, the Ars Nova when the music was  
> rhythmically, or conterpuntally wild. That music (like the French  
> mannerists in the 14? 15? century) was more intersted in rhythm and  
> independence of line than the vertical harmonies of the renaissance.


I would agree, but I also think those people listened to stuff  
differently. Stasis and repetition had different kinds of meaning, as  
did the cosmological meaning of harmony, etc.  This was a big  
revelation for me when studying the Brandenburgs, so I figure it must  
be even more different earlier. On the other hand, I'll still put in  
a vote for the Ars Subtilior being the most interesting counterpoint  
(as well as everything else)- though arguments rage as to whether is  
this was part of the Ars Nova or a different thing. . . anyway, the  
polymetric counterpoint of "Le greygnour bien" or the complex  
phrasing in "Helas pitie"- hard to find stuff that even comes close. . .


On a side note, contemporary counterpoint brought to mind "The  
Madeleine in the Mercury" by Pieter Snapper, for clarinet and  
electronics (mostly delay). Mostly canonical, some really nice  
counterpoint writing. This is from a live performance, I guess  
there's a CD out of it with Arthur Campbell. . . anyway, since most  
of y'all probably haven't heard it, I'll put it up for a day or  
so. . . http://matthewgoodheart.com/snapper.html

mg


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sun Jul 22 14:34:02 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:34:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] The other youtube clip of the week
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707211257k527f1714keb83a0a033f459df@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0707211257k527f1714keb83a0a033f459df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F7538EF6-E73A-4067-8D89-B8C7E2111F81@matthewgoodheart.com>

This has been making the rounds, but for those who haven't seen it. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o



From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 22 17:06:35 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:06:35 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] The other youtube clip of the week
In-Reply-To: <F7538EF6-E73A-4067-8D89-B8C7E2111F81@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c7ccbd$5584f2d0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Matthew Goodheart
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: [NewMusic] The other youtube clip of the week

This has been making the rounds, but for those who haven't seen it. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o


PG:
God damn, THANK YOU for posting that. I'm afraid that kills J4 singing
Judy Garland...at least for me it does...


From grobair at emusician.com  Sun Jul 22 17:47:02 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:47:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] " she had wanted to make it even more beautiful."
Message-ID: <C2C94896.3CA9%grobair@emusician.com>

All this talk about Fletcher-Munson and explaining what we're trying to do
as improvisers is put into perspective by this single art lover:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6910377.stm


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 22 17:53:18 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:53:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] " she had wanted to make it even more beautiful."
In-Reply-To: <C2C94896.3CA9%grobair@emusician.com>
Message-ID: <000901c7ccc3$dca7ec30$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of grobair at emusician.com
Subject: [NewMusic] " she had wanted to make it even more beautiful."

All this talk about Fletcher-Munson and explaining what we're trying to
do
as improvisers is put into perspective by this single art lover:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6910377.stm


PG:
Leave your mark...Dylan Thomas couldn't have said it better...or maybe
he did?


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sun Jul 22 18:53:08 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:53:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] " she had wanted to make it even more beautiful."
In-Reply-To: <000901c7ccc3$dca7ec30$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000901c7ccc3$dca7ec30$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <8716A8F2-7435-4124-9FDF-A831CCE2BC0A@balancepointacoustics.com>

This is one of the works in that series:
http://www.gagosian.com/news/2007_6_5_cy-twombly-at-the-collection-l/
you can see more here:
http://www.collectionlambert.com/
Hopefully, they will make an overpriced catalog for my huge  
collection of overpriced Twombly catalogs.
I was in Houston once and saw a little brat run up and just grab a  
handful of a Kenneth Noland (He did the cover paintings for Lacy's  
"Trickles" and "Futurities") canvas .

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From bthrew at gmail.com  Mon Jul 23 00:22:56 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:22:56 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] " she had wanted to make it even more beautiful."
In-Reply-To: <C2C94896.3CA9%grobair@emusician.com>
References: <C2C94896.3CA9%grobair@emusician.com>
Message-ID: <D3F4D90B-2FE0-4056-97EB-C84B3DF9874A@gmail.com>

I really like the random picture of lips with the article.

b


On Jul 22, 2007, at 5:47 PM, grobair at emusician.com wrote:

> All this talk about Fletcher-Munson and explaining what we're  
> trying to do
> as improvisers is put into perspective by this single art lover:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6910377.stm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA	Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From ingalls at mills.edu  Mon Jul 23 22:22:55 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] anybody  catch sfSound live broadcast
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707232219340.32204@myfiles.mills.edu>


last night?  was it working?

-m

From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Jul 24 03:50:05 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:50:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] show reviews
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707240350tea0b907m4b481020ff909291@mail.gmail.com>

 2 bbq shows last weekend, some other stuff: http://heule.us/blog

From grobair at emusician.com  Tue Jul 24 09:23:21 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:23:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
Message-ID: <C2CB7589.3D9F%grobair@emusician.com>

Continuing this thread from earlier in the month...

Suddenly, the Splatter Trio page had a Snocap window selling tunes by an
unrelated band called Splatter -- an alt-rock band or some such. The window
appeared out of nowhere, and I had to do a bit of hunting to figure out haw
to make it disappear. I think it's a bit slimey that they (MySpace or
Snocap, or whomever) just put a window up without informing the page owner
first. 
Boo!
g

Amar wrote:
Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might as
well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download service.
This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you to
place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your music in
non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not interesting).
CDBaby works directly with them as well.

Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?

  


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul 24 09:33:28 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:33:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <C2CB7589.3D9F%grobair@emusician.com>
References: <C2CB7589.3D9F%grobair@emusician.com>
Message-ID: <0765DFB4-8F46-4572-84F3-AF11369105B6@balancepointacoustics.com>

My page has "Domo Arrigato" on it, which is the one cd I am not  
digitally distributing myself, Kaiser is doing that one. I am on it,  
and it is on my label, so I have not bothered to deal with it yet.
IODA informed me it would happen, so I knew about it.
How did you change it?

Damon


On Jul 24, 2007, at 9:23 AM, grobair at emusician.com wrote:

> Continuing this thread from earlier in the month...
>
> Suddenly, the Splatter Trio page had a Snocap window selling tunes  
> by an
> unrelated band called Splatter -- an alt-rock band or some such.  
> The window
> appeared out of nowhere, and I had to do a bit of hunting to figure  
> out haw
> to make it disappear. I think it's a bit slimey that they (MySpace or
> Snocap, or whomever) just put a window up without informing the  
> page owner
> first.
> Boo!
> g
>
> Amar wrote:
> Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might as
> well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download  
> service.
> This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you to
> place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your  
> music in
> non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not interesting).
> CDBaby works directly with them as well.
>
> Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul 24 09:49:40 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:49:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <C2CB7589.3D9F%grobair@emusician.com>
References: <C2CB7589.3D9F%grobair@emusician.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40707240949j23dc8f03v45818c1f80cc1ddb@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmmm, I didn't know SNOCAP windows could just *appear* like that.
I followed step-by-step instructions provided by CD Baby to induce mine
to appear.

If this means people at MySpace are adding SNOCAP windows that they
*think* belong to music profiles, on their own initiative, of course,
they should
be informing profile owners in advance.  :(

P.

On 7/24/07, grobair at emusician.com <grobair at emusician.com> wrote:
> Continuing this thread from earlier in the month...
>
> Suddenly, the Splatter Trio page had a Snocap window selling tunes by an
> unrelated band called Splatter -- an alt-rock band or some such. The window
> appeared out of nowhere, and I had to do a bit of hunting to figure out haw
> to make it disappear. I think it's a bit slimey that they (MySpace or
> Snocap, or whomever) just put a window up without informing the page owner
> first.
> Boo!
> g
>
> Amar wrote:
> Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might as
> well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download service.
> This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you to
> place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your music in
> non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not interesting).
> CDBaby works directly with them as well.
>
> Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
-------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
-------------------------------------

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul 24 10:11:41 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:11:41 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] something completely different: SNOCAP
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40707240949j23dc8f03v45818c1f80cc1ddb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2CB7589.3D9F%grobair@emusician.com>
	<2eb068d40707240949j23dc8f03v45818c1f80cc1ddb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707241011w6db50ebco90a60991253eba3e@mail.gmail.com>

IODA provides content to SNOCAP. I got my SNOCAP window when Edgetone
Records signed on to IODA. CDbaby may do the same. I'm not sure.

If you don't know where to start on resolving this, I'd suggest
finding the website/record label of the other "Splatter" band and let
them know what's happening. Then perhaps the label will know which
channels to go through to resolve.

On 7/24/07, Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmmm, I didn't know SNOCAP windows could just *appear* like that.
> I followed step-by-step instructions provided by CD Baby to induce mine
> to appear.
>
> If this means people at MySpace are adding SNOCAP windows that they
> *think* belong to music profiles, on their own initiative, of course,
> they should
> be informing profile owners in advance.  :(
>
> P.
>
> On 7/24/07, grobair at emusician.com <grobair at emusician.com> wrote:
> > Continuing this thread from earlier in the month...
> >
> > Suddenly, the Splatter Trio page had a Snocap window selling tunes by an
> > unrelated band called Splatter -- an alt-rock band or some such. The window
> > appeared out of nowhere, and I had to do a bit of hunting to figure out haw
> > to make it disappear. I think it's a bit slimey that they (MySpace or
> > Snocap, or whomever) just put a window up without informing the page owner
> > first.
> > Boo!
> > g
> >
> > Amar wrote:
> > Well, with all the opinions flying over the past two weeks, I might as
> > well try and sneak in my query about the SNOCAP music-download service.
> > This is the service closely associated with MySpace, and allows you to
> > place "widgets" on websites from which people can purchase your music in
> > non-drm MP3 format (yes, the DRM as well, but that's not interesting).
> > CDBaby works directly with them as well.
> >
> > Anyone had any experience with this service, good or bad?
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------
> http://www.pollymoller.com
> -------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From ingalls at mills.edu  Tue Jul 24 12:18:13 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:18:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] sfsound review
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241212320.6527@myfiles.mills.edu>


http://www.sfcv.org/2007/07/24/mixing-it-up/


"Among all the area's new-music ensembles, this group has evolved an 
aesthetic that most vividly brings to mind the Bay Area's long history of 
experimentation and boundary-crossing."


-m

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 24 12:33:08 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:33:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] show reviews
In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860707240350tea0b907m4b481020ff909291@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c601c7ce29$77a0b3f0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of jacob felix heule
To: brutalsfx at yahoogroups.com; Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: [NewMusic] show reviews

 2 bbq shows last weekend, some other stuff: http://heule.us/blog


PG:
I tried a few times, but couldn't open it...


From olorin at lmi.net  Tue Jul 24 12:33:01 2007
From: olorin at lmi.net (olorin at lmi.net)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:33:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] nice mic available...
Message-ID: <20070724123301.d6d82a1b0g0044ok@webmail.lmi.net>

howdy, all - this is scott looney here. i have an item for sale and  
thought i'd try give everyone on the list a go at it before other  
options.

i got a Blue Baby Bottle microphone which is an older Latvian made  
model. it's quite good for certain applications like male vocals or  
bass amps. virtually mint condition. it's a cardioid condenser mic and  
comes with a velvet pouch, stand mount and cherry wood box. asking  
$300 firm (new, it's more like $500). this mic can be a nice addition  
to a home studio setup.

email me at  scottrlooney(AT)gmail.com if interested.

now returning you to the discussion.





From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Jul 24 14:51:02 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:51:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] show reviews
In-Reply-To: <00c601c7ce29$77a0b3f0$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <9c5cfa860707240350tea0b907m4b481020ff909291@mail.gmail.com>
	<00c601c7ce29$77a0b3f0$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707241451p16bc0222wcbdc896b0b8cfb8@mail.gmail.com>

Seems like heule.us was down off and on this morning. It's been up for
the last two hours for sure.

j

On 7/24/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>  2 bbq shows last weekend, some other stuff: http://heule.us/blog
>
> PG:
> I tried a few times, but couldn't open it...

-- 
http://ettrick.org
http://myspace.com/ettrick
http://heule.us
http://myspace.com/jacobfelix

From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 15:42:05 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:42:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
Message-ID: <76555.93148.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Does anyone know where I can find scores for Scelsi's
Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass clarinet? I
have only been able find the score for Ixor I.

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


       
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From ingalls at mills.edu  Tue Jul 24 15:44:42 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <76555.93148.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <76555.93148.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241543460.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>


i have a copies of whatever uc berkeley has -- i assume you looked there?

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can find scores for Scelsi's
> Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass clarinet? I
> have only been able find the score for Ixor I.
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.
> http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 15:52:51 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
Message-ID: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I know this discussion is "like-so-three-days-ago" but
I am just getting caught up on my emails.

I've spent a lot of time working on and thinking about
high frequencies, with the Ab clarinet in particular,
but also with high harmonics on the other clarinets.

Not everyone is into high frequencies.  That's for
sure.  Some folks will find them uncomfortable (and
may describe this as "painful" even if it is not
causing damage) but that's okay.  There's plenty of
other folks (myself included) who will enjoy it.

A few things to keep in mind:
1) We generally percieve higher frequency as being
louder than they actually are.  I'm sure someone with
more acoustical background can explain the actual
reason, but there you go.  Hence folks thinking that
Matt's high stuff is incredibly loud where as if you
measure the actual volume it is not so.
2) There is a fine line between a really beautifully
blistering high tone, and a really annoying squeak. 
Likewise there is a fine line between a beautifully
quiet high tone and a pathetic squeak.

My advice is that when you use the high stuff (if you
do) that you don't do it casually.  You use it.  Do
not overuse it.  And you make it work.  When you use
it, don't be shy about.  Never be half-assed about it.
This really got ground into me when I saw Wolfgang
Fuchs playing a solo set at the Luggage Store.  Most
of us know what the acoustics are like there, so you
can imagine what the high notes on the sopranino
saxophone can be like there, and he really exploited
this.  He really nailed some brutally high, resonate
stuff that made a few folks in the audience grab for
their ears, but for me it really made sense.  That's
the way to do it.

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 16:05:55 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:05:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241543460.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <829312.61314.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?


--- "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:

> 
> i have a copies of whatever uc berkeley has -- i
> assume you looked there?
> 
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know where I can find scores for
> Scelsi's
> > Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass
> clarinet? I
> > have only been able find the score for Ixor I.
> >
> > Jacob Lindsay
> >
>
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> > http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
> the added security of spyware protection.
> >
>
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 16:13:34 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <829312.61314.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <776201.41148.qm@web58709.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Try www.sheetmusicplus.com. They have lots, I mean LOTS, of 20th Century composers. They have 31 scores of Scelsi. To show you how obscure their inventory is, they even have a score by Iancu Dumitrescu! And they're even located in Emeryville, presumably close to where Gino 'You call that a high frequency, wimp?" Robair works. Good luck!

-M!


Jacob Lindsay <jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com> wrote: Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?


--- "Matt J. Ingalls"  wrote:

> 
> i have a copies of whatever uc berkeley has -- i
> assume you looked there?
> 
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know where I can find scores for
> Scelsi's
> > Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass
> clarinet? I
> > have only been able find the score for Ixor I.
> >
> > Jacob Lindsay
> >
>
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> > http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
> the added security of spyware protection.
> >
>
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

From ingalls at mills.edu  Tue Jul 24 16:14:01 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241603250.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>


well i think it's time to form a high frequency only ensemble..

but i'm almost positive it's mostly the difference 
tones and not the high tones that people freak out ( in my playing 
at least - and the difference tones are the only reason i'm playing those 
high tones so long anyway) - through careful scientific 
experiments i have concluded that moderately loud high clarinet tones 
do not bother a girlfriend, but even playing soft as 
possible up that high with added vibrato to create difference tones can 
make a girlfriend run out of the room.

-m

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> I know this discussion is "like-so-three-days-ago" but
> I am just getting caught up on my emails.
>
> I've spent a lot of time working on and thinking about
> high frequencies, with the Ab clarinet in particular,
> but also with high harmonics on the other clarinets.
>
> Not everyone is into high frequencies.  That's for
> sure.  Some folks will find them uncomfortable (and
> may describe this as "painful" even if it is not
> causing damage) but that's okay.  There's plenty of
> other folks (myself included) who will enjoy it.
>
> A few things to keep in mind:
> 1) We generally percieve higher frequency as being
> louder than they actually are.  I'm sure someone with
> more acoustical background can explain the actual
> reason, but there you go.  Hence folks thinking that
> Matt's high stuff is incredibly loud where as if you
> measure the actual volume it is not so.
> 2) There is a fine line between a really beautifully
> blistering high tone, and a really annoying squeak.
> Likewise there is a fine line between a beautifully
> quiet high tone and a pathetic squeak.
>
> My advice is that when you use the high stuff (if you
> do) that you don't do it casually.  You use it.  Do
> not overuse it.  And you make it work.  When you use
> it, don't be shy about.  Never be half-assed about it.
> This really got ground into me when I saw Wolfgang
> Fuchs playing a solo set at the Luggage Store.  Most
> of us know what the acoustics are like there, so you
> can imagine what the high notes on the sopranino
> saxophone can be like there, and he really exploited
> this.  He really nailed some brutally high, resonate
> stuff that made a few folks in the audience grab for
> their ears, but for me it really made sense.  That's
> the way to do it.
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From ingalls at mills.edu  Tue Jul 24 16:15:37 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:15:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <829312.61314.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <829312.61314.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241614460.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>


yes. and they have copy machines


On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
> they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?
>
>
> --- "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>> i have a copies of whatever uc berkeley has -- i
>> assume you looked there?
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone know where I can find scores for
>> Scelsi's
>>> Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass
>> clarinet? I
>>> have only been able find the score for Ixor I.
>>>
>>> Jacob Lindsay
>>>
>>
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>>> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>> Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
>> the added security of spyware protection.
>>>
>>
> http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>
>
>      ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 16:15:45 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:15:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241603250.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <271926.7649.qm@web58701.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Count me in! If it not women running from me, it usually someone else....

-M!


"Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote: 
well i think it's time to form a high frequency only ensemble..

but i'm almost positive it's mostly the difference 
tones and not the high tones that people freak out ( in my playing 
at least - and the difference tones are the only reason i'm playing those 
high tones so long anyway) - through careful scientific 
experiments i have concluded that moderately loud high clarinet tones 
do not bother a girlfriend, but even playing soft as 
possible up that high with added vibrato to create difference tones can 
make a girlfriend run out of the room.

-m

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> I know this discussion is "like-so-three-days-ago" but
> I am just getting caught up on my emails.
>
> I've spent a lot of time working on and thinking about
> high frequencies, with the Ab clarinet in particular,
> but also with high harmonics on the other clarinets.
>
> Not everyone is into high frequencies.  That's for
> sure.  Some folks will find them uncomfortable (and
> may describe this as "painful" even if it is not
> causing damage) but that's okay.  There's plenty of
> other folks (myself included) who will enjoy it.
>
> A few things to keep in mind:
> 1) We generally percieve higher frequency as being
> louder than they actually are.  I'm sure someone with
> more acoustical background can explain the actual
> reason, but there you go.  Hence folks thinking that
> Matt's high stuff is incredibly loud where as if you
> measure the actual volume it is not so.
> 2) There is a fine line between a really beautifully
> blistering high tone, and a really annoying squeak.
> Likewise there is a fine line between a beautifully
> quiet high tone and a pathetic squeak.
>
> My advice is that when you use the high stuff (if you
> do) that you don't do it casually.  You use it.  Do
> not overuse it.  And you make it work.  When you use
> it, don't be shy about.  Never be half-assed about it.
> This really got ground into me when I saw Wolfgang
> Fuchs playing a solo set at the Luggage Store.  Most
> of us know what the acoustics are like there, so you
> can imagine what the high notes on the sopranino
> saxophone can be like there, and he really exploited
> this.  He really nailed some brutally high, resonate
> stuff that made a few folks in the audience grab for
> their ears, but for me it really made sense.  That's
> the way to do it.
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 16:23:10 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <271926.7649.qm@web58701.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070724232310.56881.qmail@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> well i think it's time to form a high frequency only
> ensemble..

I'm there as well!

though it has been done before. pretty much any
project sachiko m has been involved with, for instance
- http://www.japanimprov.com/sachikom/index.html

cheers

lance



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 24 16:27:01 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:27:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] show reviews
In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860707241451p16bc0222wcbdc896b0b8cfb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002001c7ce4a$239b4ab0$4001a8c0@PG>

Thanks.

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of jacob felix heule
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 2:51 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] show reviews

Seems like heule.us was down off and on this morning. It's been up for
the last two hours for sure.

j

On 7/24/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>  2 bbq shows last weekend, some other stuff: http://heule.us/blog
>
> PG:
> I tried a few times, but couldn't open it...

-- 
http://ettrick.org
http://myspace.com/ettrick
http://heule.us
http://myspace.com/jacobfelix
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 24 16:31:36 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:31:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <76555.93148.qm@web58009.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002101c7ce4a$c743f590$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jacob Lindsay
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?

Does anyone know where I can find scores for Scelsi's
Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass clarinet? I
have only been able find the score for Ixor I.

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


PG:
Go to the Patelson's website - don't look at their online catalogue - it
sucks, and it doesn't begin to show what they have. Instead, go directly
to their "Contact" button and write to them and ask if they have the
score. If you know of a special edition you're looking for, be as
specific as possible; they have multiple editions in some cases. You'll
get a quick reply - if they don't have it, they'll order it for you and
get it to you quickly - they've been great, in my experience.

http://www.patelson.com/index1.html


From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 24 16:33:58 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:33:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <776201.41148.qm@web58709.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <653892.53210.qm@web58003.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I actually ordered some other Scelsi scores by them. 
My guess is that ii-iv are out of print since I can't
find them on the web.

But yes...I was quite impressed by their inventory of
20th century stuff.

--- Moe! Staiano <moestaiano1 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Try www.sheetmusicplus.com. They have lots, I mean
> LOTS, of 20th Century composers. They have 31 scores
> of Scelsi. To show you how obscure their inventory
> is, they even have a score by Iancu Dumitrescu! And
> they're even located in Emeryville, presumably close
> to where Gino 'You call that a high frequency,
> wimp?" Robair works. Good luck!
> 
> -M!
> 
> 
> Jacob Lindsay <jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com> wrote: Not
> yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
> they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?
> 
> 
> --- "Matt J. Ingalls"  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > i have a copies of whatever uc berkeley has -- i
> > assume you looked there?
> > 
> > On Tue, 24 Jul 2007, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> > 
> > > Does anyone know where I can find scores for
> > Scelsi's
> > > Ixor II, III, and IV for clarinet and bass
> > clarinet? I
> > > have only been able find the score for Ixor I.
> > >
> > > Jacob Lindsay
> > >
> >
>
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> > > http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured
> with
> > the added security of spyware protection.
> > >
> >
>
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > 
> 
> 
> Jacob Lindsay
>
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake
> 
> 
>      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network
> Research Panel today!  
>
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake. 
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get
> online.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 24 16:37:25 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:37:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
In-Reply-To: <829312.61314.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002801c7ce4b$97b8fae0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jacob Lindsay
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?

Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?


PG:
I used the "new" space when we did the Ives Project. You can go in,
photocopy stuff (if you can find the copier), but you can't check stuff
out (obviously). The catalogue search engines are still (???) a bit
rusty, I found it tricky to use them - I got a general location for
Ives' scores, then I just went to them and thumbed through the
stacks...I found stuff that didn't come up in the library search engine.


From tim at perkis.com  Tue Jul 24 17:30:07 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:30:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241603250.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241603250.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <46A6998F.3070501@perkis.com>



Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
> well i think it's time to form a high frequency only ensemble..
>   
please put me on your mailing list so I can be sure not to wander into 
one of your gigs by mistake.



From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Jul 24 21:50:54 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:50:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Breakthrough in Grey Room playlist: 2007 Jul 18
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860707242150ib935c6aq46097779b9c5e945@mail.gmail.com>

This week's show is tonight, 11:59pm-3am (Tue. night/Wed. morning).
90.3 FM San Francisco
or online: http://heule.us/breakthrough/ (click "Online Broadcast")


Playlist from the last show:

2007 July 18

Yellowcake, "Opaque Green," Yellowcake [Rastascan, 2006]

Compression of the Chest Cavity Miracle, #3 & #4, Fleetingly
Improvised Persons [Dolor del Estamago, 2006]
Tarantism, "Occam's Razor," & "Gray Water Purge," Stuck to the Bottom
[Resipiscent, 2007]
Birgit Uhler & Gino Robair, "Ristretto," Sputter [Creative Sources, 2005]
Elliott Sharp & Reinhold Friedl, "duc," Feuchtify [Emanem, 2006]
Adam Bohman & Roger Smith, "Yes, This," Reality Fandango [Emanem, 2007]
[background music] Adam Bohman & Roger Smith, "So," Reality Fandango
[Emanem, 2007]

Phil Minton Quartet, "Back," Slur [Emanem, 2007]
Lambs Gamble, "Inchoate Quest," Memory Collapse [Evolving Ear]
Aemae, "Confound Me," Maw [Isounderscore, 2007]
[background music] Aemae, "Spectral Psychosis," Maw [Isounderscore, 2007]

Head Boggle Domo (in Auralsize), "Duel Tint," Rchive #1 [Greedmink, 2006]
Happy Mother's Day I Can't Read, "Beastkiller," Ova/HMDICR - The
Number on my Forehead Is Gone [Freedom From]
Ghost Band, "Life of Old," Skulls for Symphony [Insides Music, 2007]

[background music] Nick Castro, "Motor Music," various - Somethings #1
[Last Visible Dog, 2006]
Masayoshi Urabe, "untitled (2002)," various - Somethings #1 [Last
Visible Dog, 2006]
Jean-Francois Laporte, "Boule qui roule... (1997)," Soundmatters [23five, 2007]

16 Bitch Pile-up, "...but not deep enough," Bury Me Deep [Troniks, 2007]
Throbbing Gristle, "Above the Below," Part Two: The Endless Not [Mute, 2007]

Gowns, "Cherylee," Red State [Cardboard, 2007]
The Oh Sees, "You Make Me Sick, Oh Yeah," Sucks Blood [Castle Face, 2007]
Midnight 1,2,3, "Worry," Midnight 1,2,3 [self-released, 2007]
Burning Star Core, "Me and My Arrow," Operator Dead... Post Abandoned
[No Quarter, 2007]

The Graveyards, untitled, various - Less Self Is More Self [Ecstatic
Peace, 2007]
Weasel Walter, "Improvisation Part 1," Early Recordings 1988-91
[Savage Land, 2007]
Zu & Nobukazu Takemura, "Awake in the Next Room," Identification With
the Enemy: A Key to the Underworld [Atavistic, 2006]
Winters in Osaka, "Sleepy Waters," Manifest," [Privileged to Fail, 2007]

Khlyst, "VII," Chaos Is My Name [Hydra Head, 2007]
Moss, "Maimed & Slaughtered," Moss/Monarch split 7" [Rise Above, 2007]
KK Null, #6, Fertile [Touch, 2007]

Nine Inch Nails, "March of the Pigs," The Downward Spiral [TVT/Interscope, 1994]
Nathamuni Brothers, "Varnam Sami Ninne Raga Shankarabharanam, Tala
Adi," Madras 1974 [Fire Museum, 2007]


(please contact me if you have corrections to the listed information)

http://heule.us/breakthrough/

From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Tue Jul 24 22:18:25 2007
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:18:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Ixor II-IV
References: <mailman.3.1185336002.3658.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318AD68@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>


PG wrote:

>>Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?

Yes, indeed you can. However UCB only has Ixor I in their collection. 

It may prove difficult to find Ixor II-IV, as I note (from the Wolfgang Thein's liner notes of the CPO disc of complete works for Clarinet):

"Only Ixor I has been officially included in Scelsi's catalogue of works and published; 1954 is given as its date of composition, and the instrumentation calls for a B-flat clarinet "or any other reed instrument." Scelsi gave the Ixor II, III and IV pieces recorded here to the Zelinsky/Smeyers clarinet duo in 1986 after the abovementioned work session. Nos. II and III are handwritten copyist's transcriptions. Scelsi assigned the title IXOR (without numbering) to No. II in his own hand and added his signature to it. The designation Ixor III was added in another hand. No. IV appears to have been prepared and typeset for publication; the notes already bear the number IV and the page numbers 16 and 17. Scelsi added in his own hand "forse Ixor I" (perhaps Ixor I), suggesting that he was no longer certain about its title, assignment or ordering. We thus cannot be certain whether these pieces were intended as a cycle in the stricter sense of the term. The shift of instrument, rather unusual for Scelsi (bass clarinet in No. II) would seen to speak against this."

If you wish to pursue this further, I'd suggest contacting someone at Editions Salabert (Scelsi's publisher). 

http://www.durand-salabert-eschig.com/

Salabert is distributed in the US by Hal Leonard, but I doubt you'll get much help there....

Best of luck to you.

-MH


Message: 23
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:37:25 -0700
From: "Phillip Greenlief" <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
To: "'Bay Area New Music Discussion Group'" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <002801c7ce4b$97b8fae0$4001a8c0 at PG>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jacob Lindsay
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?

Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?


PG:
I used the "new" space when we did the Ives Project. You can go in,
photocopy stuff (if you can find the copier), but you can't check stuff
out (obviously). The catalogue search engines are still (???) a bit
rusty, I found it tricky to use them - I got a general location for
Ives' scores, then I just went to them and thumbed through the
stacks...I found stuff that didn't come up in the library search engine.



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:30:07 -0700
From: Tim Perkis <tim at perkis.com>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] the high stuff
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <46A6998F.3070501 at perkis.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
> well i think it's time to form a high frequency only ensemble..
>   
please put me on your mailing list so I can be sure not to wander into 
one of your gigs by mistake.




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 19
****************************************



From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Tue Jul 24 22:30:15 2007
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:30:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Ixor II-III-IV
References: <mailman.3.1185336002.3658.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318AD69@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>

One more possibility...you could try contacting David Smeyers directly via the Hochschule in Cologne (he is apparently on faculty), since he has the aforementioned copies of Ixor II-III-IV. 

http://www.mhs-koeln.de/111.html


Oops...and pologies to PG. It was JL who inquired re: access to UCB's music library. 

I might also point out that for $100 you can get a library card with check out privileges. 

-MH

------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:37:25 -0700
From: "Phillip Greenlief" <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?
To: "'Bay Area New Music Discussion Group'" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <002801c7ce4b$97b8fae0$4001a8c0 at PG>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Jacob Lindsay
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ixor ii-iv?

Not yet.  I haven't hit up the UCB music library since
they moved.  Can you still walk in without an ID?


PG:
I used the "new" space when we did the Ives Project. You can go in,
photocopy stuff (if you can find the copier), but you can't check stuff
out (obviously). The catalogue search engines are still (???) a bit
rusty, I found it tricky to use them - I got a general location for
Ives' scores, then I just went to them and thumbed through the
stacks...I found stuff that didn't come up in the library search engine.


From grobair at emusician.com  Wed Jul 25 00:26:47 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 02:26:47 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] must...kill...Snocap
References: <mailman.3.1185336002.3658.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6E54@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com>

Regarding Snocap's mysterious appearance, Damon asked:
<<How did you change it?>>

Go to Change Account Settings > Profile Settings > and deselect "Display my Music Store on my profile"

That will stop the zombie...for now.

From grobair at emusician.com  Wed Jul 25 10:00:02 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:00:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Release your music on USB stick!
Message-ID: <C2CCCFA2.3E48%grobair@emusician.com>

Interesting piece about the music singles scene in Britain:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6289510.stm

I know bands have been experimenting with releasing their music on CD or
vinyl and including free downloads, but I haven't seen anything sold on USB
here yet. Try pricing out a USB stick, and you'll see that it would be
cheaper to put your music out on a 4-color picture disc...


From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 25 14:20:14 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Release your music on USB stick!
In-Reply-To: <C2CCCFA2.3E48%grobair@emusician.com>
Message-ID: <222294.21798.qm@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> here yet. Try pricing out a USB stick, and you'll
> see that it would be
> cheaper to put your music out on a 4-color picture
> disc...

Just did some online price quotes for various shapes
and sizes and the price is pretty comparable to
manufactured CDs (remembering that you'd need very
little drive space for a "single"). Only slightly more
expensive, but slightly more expensive than too much
is ????

lance



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 25 14:30:32 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:30:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Release your music on USB stick!
In-Reply-To: <222294.21798.qm@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <C2CCCFA2.3E48%grobair@emusician.com>
	<222294.21798.qm@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707251430r29221f0bu84599ed6d1ed728b@mail.gmail.com>

Really? I've been researching pricing for small capacity USB sticks at
work, and the lowest price I've seen (without pre-loaded data) was
just under $5 each. Where are you finding them comparable to cd
manufacturing prices?

On 7/25/07, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> was all:

>Dude, earlier Gino Robair was like:
>
> > here yet. Try pricing out a USB stick, and you'll
> > see that it would be
> > cheaper to put your music out on a 4-color picture
> > disc...
>
> Just did some online price quotes for various shapes
> and sizes and the price is pretty comparable to
> manufactured CDs (remembering that you'd need very
> little drive space for a "single"). Only slightly more
> expensive, but slightly more expensive than too much
> is ????
>
> lance
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 25 14:36:21 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:36:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Nels Cline bashing - elsewhere
Message-ID: <C2CD1065.1F297%21grand@21grand.org>

This comment was posted to bagatellen in response to a review of the latest
Nels Cline Singers record:

"I was big fan of the old trio, "Chest" and all that. This trio is just
terrible live. Both of the rhythm section guys make stupid faces, while
playing mediocre crap. The drummer is the dullest basher I have ever heard,
you can never hear the bassist and that is just as well.
 Nels seems more concerned with his painted nails and tight black clothes
than making good music at this point.

It looked like Nels was going to step up and get serious with "Inkling" but
unfortunately it did not happen.
Posted by: jeff tweedy at July 25, 2007 10:15 AM"

http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/001750.html



From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 25 14:37:01 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:37:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Release your music on USB stick!
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0707251430r29221f0bu84599ed6d1ed728b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <109108.44782.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Do some googling. Tried about five companies in about
10 minutes with vastly differing results.

Also, take into consideration I'm only making a few
hundred cds per run these days, so $5 a pop is
comparable (if pricey).

lance

--- Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Really? I've been researching pricing for small
> capacity USB sticks at
> work, and the lowest price I've seen (without
> pre-loaded data) was
> just under $5 each. Where are you finding them
> comparable to cd
> manufacturing prices?
> 
> On 7/25/07, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> was all:
> 
> >Dude, earlier Gino Robair was like:
> >
> > > here yet. Try pricing out a USB stick, and
> you'll
> > > see that it would be
> > > cheaper to put your music out on a 4-color
> picture
> > > disc...
> >
> > Just did some online price quotes for various
> shapes
> > and sizes and the price is pretty comparable to
> > manufactured CDs (remembering that you'd need very
> > little drive space for a "single"). Only slightly
> more
> > expensive, but slightly more expensive than too
> much
> > is ????
> >
> > lance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check
> out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Jul 25 14:39:32 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:39:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Nels Cline bashing - elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <C2CD1065.1F297%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C2CD1065.1F297%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <4B94FC2A-632B-468E-A48B-0055DDE9C224@balancepointacoustics.com>

I can't argue with Mr. Tweedy!
On Jul 25, 2007, at 2:36 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:

> This comment was posted to bagatellen in response to a review of  
> the latest
> Nels Cline Singers record:
>
> "I was big fan of the old trio, "Chest" and all that. This trio is  
> just
> terrible live. Both of the rhythm section guys make stupid faces,  
> while
> playing mediocre crap. The drummer is the dullest basher I have  
> ever heard,
> you can never hear the bassist and that is just as well.
>  Nels seems more concerned with his painted nails and tight black  
> clothes
> than making good music at this point.
>
> It looked like Nels was going to step up and get serious with  
> "Inkling" but
> unfortunately it did not happen.
> Posted by: jeff tweedy at July 25, 2007 10:15 AM"
>
> http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/001750.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 25 14:59:21 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:59:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Nels Cline bashing - elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <4B94FC2A-632B-468E-A48B-0055DDE9C224@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c7cf07$0ece24a0$4001a8c0@PG>

All I can say is that Cory Wright and I listened to "Ground" on the way
back from LA a few months ago - Highway 5 in the middle of the night
stuff, and it is a really deep record. I know, that was a long time
ago...let's just leave it at that. 

What I will also say is that Bob Mair is one of the great electric bass
players...and totally under appreciated!

PG

Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Damon Smith
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Nels Cline bashing - elsewhere

I can't argue with Mr. Tweedy!
On Jul 25, 2007, at 2:36 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:

> This comment was posted to bagatellen in response to a review of  
> the latest
> Nels Cline Singers record:
>
> "I was big fan of the old trio, "Chest" and all that. This trio is  
> just
> terrible live. Both of the rhythm section guys make stupid faces,  
> while
> playing mediocre crap. The drummer is the dullest basher I have  
> ever heard,
> you can never hear the bassist and that is just as well.
>  Nels seems more concerned with his painted nails and tight black  
> clothes
> than making good music at this point.
>
> It looked like Nels was going to step up and get serious with  
> "Inkling" but
> unfortunately it did not happen.
> Posted by: jeff tweedy at July 25, 2007 10:15 AM"
>
> http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/001750.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Wed Jul 25 15:04:18 2007
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:04:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Nels Cline bashing - elsewhere
In-Reply-To: <4B94FC2A-632B-468E-A48B-0055DDE9C224@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <C2CD1065.1F297%21grand@21grand.org>
	<4B94FC2A-632B-468E-A48B-0055DDE9C224@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <317505170707251504o19e370f2y46f026c247181bc7@mail.gmail.com>

wait is it the real jeff tweedy from Wilco who posted that? if so
that's hilarious..

the inkling is definitely my favorite nels record. the singers aren't
my favorite project of his, but i don't really get pegging them as
"shallow", which seems to be the main criticism i hear of them.


On 7/25/07, Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> I can't argue with Mr. Tweedy!
> On Jul 25, 2007, at 2:36 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:
>
> > This comment was posted to bagatellen in response to a review of
> > the latest
> > Nels Cline Singers record:
> >
> > "I was big fan of the old trio, "Chest" and all that. This trio is
> > just
> > terrible live. Both of the rhythm section guys make stupid faces,
> > while
> > playing mediocre crap. The drummer is the dullest basher I have
> > ever heard,
> > you can never hear the bassist and that is just as well.
> >  Nels seems more concerned with his painted nails and tight black
> > clothes
> > than making good music at this point.
> >
> > It looked like Nels was going to step up and get serious with
> > "Inkling" but
> > unfortunately it did not happen.
> > Posted by: jeff tweedy at July 25, 2007 10:15 AM"
> >
> > http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/001750.html
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
ole ole ole ole, dark foo-ne-ral..

www.avamendoza.com
www.myspace.com/avamendoza
www.myspace.com/mutesocialite

From grobair at emusician.com  Wed Jul 25 15:42:05 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:42:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Nels bashing elsewhere
Message-ID: <C2CD1FCD.3E85%grobair@emusician.com>

Ava asked:
<<wait is it the real jeff tweedy from Wilco who posted that? if so
that's hilarious.>>

I seriously doubt Jeff Tweedy would write something like that, or even pay
attention to Bagatellen. Obviously, the person who wrote that is too
cowardly to use his/her real name. ;-)

But I'd concur that those early Nctrio discs kick serious ass. Haven't heard
any new Singers stuff. I hear Scott has a lovely new drum set, though.


From slusser at pixar.com  Wed Jul 25 17:19:22 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:19:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241603250.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707241603250.8325@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <1AE56DC7-2CEA-41FC-A4E5-BF017AF89ECE@pixar.com>

On Jul 24, 2007, at 4:14 PM, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
> well i think it's time to form a high frequency only ensemble..
>
> but i'm almost positive it's mostly the difference
> tones and not the high tones that people freak out ( in my playing
> at least - and the difference tones are the only reason i'm playing  
> those
> high tones so long anyway) - through careful scientific
> experiments i have concluded that moderately loud high clarinet tones
> do not bother a girlfriend, but even playing soft as
> possible up that high with added vibrato to create difference tones  
> can
> make a girlfriend run out of the room.

Thank you, Matt (as opposed to Welcome Mat).

It was this ability to wield an invisible power that galvanized me
in middle school while squealing with another young saxophonist.	
This third sound was absolutely physical, in the room with us;
something like contrary motion comb-filters that followed our
interaction, boxing my ears.  A few years later in college, while
trying to get a handle on real altissimo tones with another saxo-
phonist in a small practice room, it was more pronounced,
almost overpowering, and subject to the slightest nuance.  My
friend described it as "corduroy" - the sound that pants of that
fabric make when walking.  For lack of a better word, I began
describing it as heterodyning, which is an old radio term.  At
the time I thought a lot of the appeal was extra musical (physical),
but later hearing diaphonic Balkan singing, and Tuvan throat singing,
I heard it in more traditional musical terms (though I not sure it's
precisely the same thing).

I'm still absorbing Daniel Levitin's "This Is Your Brain On Music",
and this is one of those areas which all people's brains may not
recognize as something musical.

From aurorarising at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 25 23:27:47 2007
From: aurorarising at hotmail.com (~ Aurora ~)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:27:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Pictures & Video June/July 2007
Message-ID: <BAY104-W48274269E72056EC10450DDF20@phx.gbl>

Meow!
July 6, 2007
Artist's Reception Gold Record Studiohttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/7.6.07.htm
 
July 4, 2007
Free Jazz & Fireworkshttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/7.4.07.htm
 
June 30, 2007
Lou Harrison Tribute http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.30.07.htm
 
June 27, 2007
Telepathik Friend & Pinhaus @ G3http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.27.07.htm
 
June 25, 2007
ROVA Improv:21 Jeanrenaud & Winanthttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.25.07.htm
 
June 24, 2007
Noise @ John Patrick's in Alamedahttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.24.07.htm
 
June 21, 2007
Summer Solstice Chapel of the Chimeshttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.21.07.htm
 
June 15, 2007
Tarantism @ Hemlockhttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.15.07.htm
 
June 13, 2007
Can't/Naomi Elizabeth/Captain Ahab/Gowns/Radiushttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.13.07.htm Aurora Josephson Click: http://www.aurorarising.com to learn more

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jul 26 11:19:45 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:19:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mailing lists without ads
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707261119o5ab545e9m66daec96ddd3a104@mail.gmail.com>

A new person who joined my events mailing list has brought to my
attention that Topica forces new people to wade through pages and
pages of ads before they can sign up for a mailing list. Does anyone
know of a good mailing list site that doesn't do this?

(The sad thing is that I migrated from yahoo groups a while ago since
someone was paranoid they'd do the same thing.)

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jul 26 11:43:48 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:43:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Mailing lists without ads
Message-ID: <C2CE3974.1F30D%21grand@21grand.org>

I'd be surprised if there were free mailing list services/sites that don't
have ads at this point.

>From my nowhere-near-exhaustive survey of the field there are 4 main
categories:

1. free mailing list sites hosted by other companies that put ads in your
messages.

2. paid mailing list sites - often a "premium" product of the free services
- more likely to not have ads because you are paying for  it

3. free mailing list software that runs on your own website that you have to
install and maintain (some is easier than others to administer) - we use a
program called dadamail. There's a link at the bottom of messages to the
software site, as in "powered by dadamail." Some webhosts offer free mailing
list software that's even more plug-and-play - dreamhost does this.

4. software that runs on your own website that costs money - a lot of this
comes with more bells and whistles - you can have multiple lists, it can
manage bounces and address changes, it often has more database-like
features, probably templates - many arts non-profits use stuff like this.
Same as w/#3 - no ads, but an acknowledgement/link to the software site.

Personally, if I had a fairly small list and/or sent out infrequent
announcements, I would do it all manually in ye olde cut and paste method.

Caveat: a number of  mailing list services & software don't let you just
import addresses from previous lists - you have to send out announcements
and have everybody sign up on the new list. It's an anti-spam measure, but
it can be annoying because you often lose a bunch of people in the
transition.

sl

Matt mulled:
A new person who joined my events mailing list has brought to my
attention that Topica forces new people to wade through pages and
pages of ads before they can sign up for a mailing list. Does anyone
know of a good mailing list site that doesn't do this?

(The sad thing is that I migrated from yahoo groups a while ago since
someone was paranoid they'd do the same thing.)


From bthrew at gmail.com  Thu Jul 26 16:03:25 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:03:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <53CECC64-3416-427D-9881-52EF7768EDA9@gmail.com>

> A few things to keep in mind:
> 1) We generally percieve higher frequency as being
> louder than they actually are.  I'm sure someone with
> more acoustical background can explain the actual
> reason, but there you go.

I refer you to Harvey and Wilden: http://www.webervst.com/fm.htm

You'll notice that the highest notes for Woodwinds are between 3-6  
KHz, which is right in the most sensitive range for the ear.

Reason?  Probably evolutionary.  The most alarming sounds in nature  
are right in that range, and thus are important to hear.


Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA	Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From td at pixar.com  Thu Jul 26 16:15:34 2007
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0707261614060.16796@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>


Kyle Gann spots a correspondence between Neocons and Serialists:
http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2007/07/color_me_frivolous.html

-- 
Tom Duff.  To find out a person's userid, ask him.

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jul 26 16:40:46 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0707261614060.16796@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0707261614060.16796@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707261627400.32763@myfiles.mills.edu>


man, babyboomer-composers really are holding onto that grudge 
against 12-tone music.. it must have been really bad back in the day..

if gann's analogy and predictions are right, i guess we will be feeling 
the same about the neocons 20 years from now..

-m

From cypod25 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 26 18:09:11 2007
From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:09:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Reggae Chords
Message-ID: <473c28030707261809j709d6b6dy564a4ffd6bbcadd@mail.gmail.com>

I used to have this poster with the 5 most common Reggae chord
sequences, does anyone happen to know what they are?

-- 
B~
www.cypod.co.nr

From slusser at pixar.com  Thu Jul 26 18:13:21 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Reggae Chords
In-Reply-To: <473c28030707261809j709d6b6dy564a4ffd6bbcadd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <473c28030707261809j709d6b6dy564a4ffd6bbcadd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AA76D32-F179-4D73-BE4E-9942E73CD789@pixar.com>


On Jul 26, 2007, at 6:09 PM, Cypod wrote:

> I used to have this poster with the 5 most common Reggae chord
> sequences, does anyone happen to know what they are?


By far, this is the most common:

I	I	I	I	I	I	I	I

or

Em	Em	Em	Em	Em	Em	Em	Em

From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul 26 18:22:47 2007
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:22:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Reggae Chords
References: <473c28030707261809j709d6b6dy564a4ffd6bbcadd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AA76D32-F179-4D73-BE4E-9942E73CD789@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <000d01c7cfec$a498d760$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

I think that's I and I and I RE I. D.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Slusser" <slusser at pixar.com>
To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Reggae Chords


>
> On Jul 26, 2007, at 6:09 PM, Cypod wrote:
>
>> I used to have this poster with the 5 most common Reggae chord
>> sequences, does anyone happen to know what they are?
>
>
> By far, this is the most common:
>
> I I I I I I I I
>
> or
>
> Em Em Em Em Em Em Em Em
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.20/919 - Release Date: 7/26/2007 
> 9:56 AM
>
> 


From mylesaudio at aol.com  Thu Jul 26 19:02:37 2007
From: mylesaudio at aol.com (mylesaudio at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:02:37 -0400
Subject: [NewMusic] Pictures & Video June/July 2007
In-Reply-To: <BAY104-W48274269E72056EC10450DDF20@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY104-W48274269E72056EC10450DDF20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8C99E0956F53CE6-A64-36C5@FWM-D43.sysops.aol.com>

Nice photos, Miss Meow! And Restroom Photo #173 is a stunner - what an 
expression!

Cheers, Myles


-----Original Message-----
From: ~ Aurora ~ <aurorarising at hotmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music List <ba-newmus at eartha.mills.edu>; 
chi-improv at yahoogroups.com <chi-improv at yahoogroups.com>; 
brutalsfx at yahoogroups.com <brutalsfx at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:27 pm
Subject: [NewMusic] Pictures & Video June/July 2007






Meow!
July 6, 2007
Artist's Reception Gold Record 
Studiohttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/7.6.07.htm

July 4, 2007
Free Jazz & Fireworkshttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/7.4.07.htm

June 30, 2007
Lou Harrison Tribute http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.30.07.htm

June 27, 2007
Telepathik Friend & Pinhaus @ 
G3http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.27.07.htm

June 25, 2007
ROVA Improv:21 Jeanrenaud & 
Winanthttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.25.07.htm

June 24, 2007
Noise @ John Patrick's in 
Alamedahttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.24.07.htm

June 21, 2007
Summer Solstice Chapel of the 
Chimeshttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.21.07.htm

June 15, 2007
Tarantism @ Hemlockhttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.15.07.htm

June 13, 2007
Can't/Naomi Elizabeth/Captain 
Ahab/Gowns/Radiushttp://www.aurorarising.com/Events/6.13.07.htm
Aurora Josephson Click: http://www.aurorarising.com to learn more
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic




________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free 
from AOL at AOL.com.

From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Thu Jul 26 22:09:45 2007
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:09:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] I see a baboon's ass
References: <mailman.1.1185508802.5404.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318AD6D@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>


After suffering through many of Kyle Gann's feeble-minded musings for years while I was living in Chicago (he was "critic" for the Reader where he bored us ad infinitum before moving on to NY), I have to say....this one takes the cake. 

If there is a is a correspondence between neocons (aka fascists) and music, I'd look to someone like Gann himself who's been carping on this uptown vs. downtown thing for so long I sometimes wish I could get a frontal lobotomy, in order to alleviate my suffering. Or better yet, he could get one.

I'll take Schoenberg's music (which no matter how many times I listen to, I can always find something new to amaze me) to Gann's insipid, uninspired, boring old baloney any day. Or night. 

Please, someone make him go away.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Duff <td at pixar.com>
Subject: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Message-ID:
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0707261614060.16796 at marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Kyle Gann spots a correspondence between Neocons and Serialists:
http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2007/07/color_me_frivolous.html

-- 
Tom Duff.  To find out a person's userid, ask him.


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707261627400.32763 at myfiles.mills.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


man, babyboomer-composers really are holding onto that grudge 
against 12-tone music.. it must have been really bad back in the day..

if gann's analogy and predictions are right, i guess we will be feeling 
the same about the neocons 20 years from now..

-m



From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 27 08:47:12 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:47:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <53CECC64-3416-427D-9881-52EF7768EDA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F337CCEAD4317C5D632D6A7C1F30@phx.gbl>


Barry Threw wrote:

>Reason?  Probably evolutionary.  The most alarming sounds in nature are 
>right in that range, and thus are important to hear.

Well, that is a fascinating theory. What are some examples
of what you see as the "most alarming sounds in nature"?

-George

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!? 
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2


From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 27 10:21:29 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F337CCEAD4317C5D632D6A7C1F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <278985.80545.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi George,

Ever heard a baby screaming?

There is a reason it is so unsettling.  It is a
survival mechanism.  It forces you to respond.


--- George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Barry Threw wrote:
> 
> >Reason?  Probably evolutionary.  The most alarming
> sounds in nature are 
> >right in that range, and thus are important to
> hear.
> 
> Well, that is a fascinating theory. What are some
> examples
> of what you see as the "most alarming sounds in
> nature"?
> 
> -George
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play
> Chicktionary!? 
>
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

From ingalls at mills.edu  Fri Jul 27 10:22:27 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:22:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F337CCEAD4317C5D632D6A7C1F30@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F337CCEAD4317C5D632D6A7C1F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707271020260.8899@myfiles.mills.edu>


(i know you are being sarcastic, but..)

i always thought it was baby-cry-range


On Fri, 27 Jul 2007, George Cremaschi wrote:

>
> Barry Threw wrote:
>
>> Reason?  Probably evolutionary.  The most alarming sounds in nature are 
>> right in that range, and thus are important to hear.
>
> Well, that is a fascinating theory. What are some examples
> of what you see as the "most alarming sounds in nature"?
>
> -George
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!? 
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
>

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 27 11:07:33 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:07:33 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707271020260.8899@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>


>(i know you are being sarcastic, but..)

Actually, I'm not even remotely being sarcastic.
Just curious.

>i always thought it was baby-cry-range

Ok, so we have baby crying.

What else?

thanks,
George



>>Well, that is a fascinating theory. What are some examples
>>of what you see as the "most alarming sounds in nature"?
>>
>>-George
>>

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!? 
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2


From tim at perkis.com  Fri Jul 27 11:40:59 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:40:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46AA3C3B.506@perkis.com>

swarming hummingbird attack

George Cremaschi wrote:
>
>> (i know you are being sarcastic, but..)
>
> Actually, I'm not even remotely being sarcastic.
> Just curious.
>
>> i always thought it was baby-cry-range
>
> Ok, so we have baby crying.
>
> What else?
>
> thanks,
> George
>
>
>
>>> Well, that is a fascinating theory. What are some examples
>>> of what you see as the "most alarming sounds in nature"?
>>>
>>> -George
>>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!  
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>   

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 11:47:27 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:47:27 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707271020260.8899@myfiles.mills.edu>
	<BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707271147r3ef108fdh1f9f4b90415b31e4@mail.gmail.com>

How about a hawk diving at you to carry you off to its chicks.
Or the fan belt sound of a late 70s faux-wood-paneled station wagon
which is about to run you over.
Or giant nails chasing you through a chalkboard landscape in your
nightmares. ("No mom, no!")
Or mob bosses about to cut your hands off with a radial saw.
Yeah, or babies crying. The oncoming train of responsibility!

On 7/27/07, George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> was all:
>
> Ok, so we have baby crying.
>
> What else?
>
> thanks,
> George
>

From pamelaz at pamelaz.com  Fri Jul 27 11:49:25 2007
From: pamelaz at pamelaz.com (Pamela Z)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:49:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Need assistant
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707271020260.8899@myfiles.mills.edu>
References: <BAY101-F337CCEAD4317C5D632D6A7C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<Pine.LNX.4.60.0707271020260.8899@myfiles.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240820c2cfedab2136@[10.0.1.198]>

Does anyone know of someone who might want to pick up a few hours a 
week as a studio assistant for an artist?  I'm currently sharing an 
assistant with Beth Custer, but she's getting increasingly busy and 
can't give me as much time as I'd like.

(You can write me directly with responses pamelaz at pamelaz.com)

pz


-- 
Pamela Z
Composer/Performer

Contact info:

Telephone: 415.861.EARS (415.861.3277)
Mobile: 415.5PAMELA (415.572.6352) 
FAX: 415.861.FAKS (415.861.3257)
(I forward my land line to my mobile phone when I'm travelling)

pamelaz at pamelaz.com
http://www.pamelaz.com
http://www.myspace.com/pamelazcomposer

Skype: pamelazed   AIM: pamelazdotcom

Snail Mail:
Pamela Z Productions
540 Alabama Street Studio 213
San Francisco, CA 94110, USA

shipping address (for packages larger than a 10" x 13" envelope):
Pamela Z  2440 Sixteenth Street  PMB #171, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA

Pamela Z's CD "A Delay is Better" on the Starkland label is now 
available at http://www.amazon.com, http://www.starkland.com, and in 
stores near you.
......................................................................................................

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 27 11:54:50 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:54:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <278985.80545.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <278985.80545.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D921BE32-756B-4BEB-98B1-F0A2F869FD61@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 27, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> Ever heard a baby screaming?
>
> There is a reason it is so unsettling.  It is a
> survival mechanism.  It forces you to respond.

This is true, it is the trouble I am having at home. I don't mind  
noisy neighbors in some respects because then I don't have to worry  
about it my self.
If I want to practice playing high on my high F string with the amp  
on I can, but the response thing is the problem with the kid next  
door. Unfortunately, the "parents" don't respond to him.
For me it seems to be a natural thing that is hard to shake, believe  
me I have been trying.
OPD seems to be able to speak language they understand, though.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pamelaz at pamelaz.com  Fri Jul 27 11:51:12 2007
From: pamelaz at pamelaz.com (Pamela Z)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:51:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Loved Noisy People
In-Reply-To: <53CECC64-3416-427D-9881-52EF7768EDA9@gmail.com>
References: <653354.92889.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<53CECC64-3416-427D-9881-52EF7768EDA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240822c2cfeee16a00@[10.0.1.198]>

I Just saw Noisy People at the Red Vic last night.  Thanks, Tim!!!! 
Its really a treasure!

-pz
-- 
Pamela Z
Composer/Performer

Contact info:

Telephone: 415.861.EARS (415.861.3277)
Mobile: 415.5PAMELA (415.572.6352) 
FAX: 415.861.FAKS (415.861.3257)
(I forward my land line to my mobile phone when I'm travelling)

pamelaz at pamelaz.com
http://www.pamelaz.com
http://www.myspace.com/pamelazcomposer

Skype: pamelazed   AIM: pamelazdotcom

Snail Mail:
Pamela Z Productions
540 Alabama Street Studio 213
San Francisco, CA 94110, USA

shipping address (for packages larger than a 10" x 13" envelope):
Pamela Z  2440 Sixteenth Street  PMB #171, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA

Pamela Z's CD "A Delay is Better" on the Starkland label is now 
available at http://www.amazon.com, http://www.starkland.com, and in 
stores near you.
......................................................................................................

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 27 11:57:36 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Loved Noisy People
In-Reply-To: <p06240822c2cfeee16a00@[10.0.1.198]>
Message-ID: <629795.35084.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

And it was really fun to see the "Noisy People
Quartet" (Tim, Gino, Djll and Greenlief) before the
show. What a fun night. 

cheers to Tim and Noisy People!

and dont forget to by a t-shirt!

--- Pamela Z <pamelaz at pamelaz.com> wrote:

> I Just saw Noisy People at the Red Vic last night. 
> Thanks, Tim!!!! 
> Its really a treasure!



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From bthrew at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 12:19:07 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:19:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>

The aforementioned baby is the usual example, right in 2-3KHz.  Our  
ear is especially tuned to hear sounds in the range of human vocals.

And most of the alarming natural sounds are in the vocal range, I.E.  
panther going to jump on yo' face.  A lot of things breaking and  
falling, transients.

It doesn't have to be classified as "alarming"...it just makes since  
that before machines (and thus instruments) were invented there were  
very few things that produced frequencies in ranges other than upper  
midrange.  Thunder, earthquakes, avalanche, natural disaster stuff,  
but I think those could be considered rare AND the volume they  
produce is great enough that they would be perceived as equally loud  
on the F/M curve.

It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums  
they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in daily  
life.

b


On Jul 27, 2007, at 11:07 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:

>
>> (i know you are being sarcastic, but..)
>
> Actually, I'm not even remotely being sarcastic.
> Just curious.
>
>> i always thought it was baby-cry-range
>
> Ok, so we have baby crying.
>
> What else?
>
> thanks,
> George
>
>
>
>>> Well, that is a fascinating theory. What are some examples
>>> of what you see as the "most alarming sounds in nature"?
>>>
>>> -George
>>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!  http:// 
> club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From 21grand at 21grand.org  Fri Jul 27 12:26:04 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:26:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  the high stuff
Message-ID: <C2CF94DC.1F395%21grand@21grand.org>

- Hunh? I thought there was a significant history of people hitting things
with sticks prior to the invention of drums.

Paging Mr. Lettuce to make topical caveman joke.

sl

Barry's latest puzzler:
It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums
they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in daily
life.


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jul 27 14:53:04 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:53:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>

What about water? Waterfalls and waves produce some pretty deep  
tones, and are pretty loud . .  and some animals make some pretty  
deep tones- lions, bears. . .

On a related note, I remember seeing a show once about how  
spectrographic analysis showed that almost all animal "danger" noises  
were essentially the same kind of pattern, but sped up/slowed down  
and in different ranges, etc. I filed it and meant to check it out  
more completely sometime, but never did. Anyone know anything about  
this? Is it bogus?

mg


On Jul 27, 2007, at 12:19 PM, barry threw wrote:

> Thunder, earthquakes, avalanche, natural disaster stuff,
> but I think those could be considered rare AND the volume they
> produce is great enough that they would be perceived as equally loud
> on the F/M curve.
>
> It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums
> they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in daily
> life.


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jul 27 15:01:29 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:01:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] I see a baboon's ass
In-Reply-To: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318AD6D@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
References: <mailman.1.1185508802.5404.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318AD6D@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
Message-ID: <E451885D-97D6-40B8-9067-4923AA355B6C@matthewgoodheart.com>

I find a number of microtonalists and just-intonation folk can be  
pretty fascistic as well. . . literally, a "return to the pure" and  
the "purging of all unnatural intervals". . .


On Jul 26, 2007, at 10:09 PM, Michael Henry wrote:

>
> After suffering through many of Kyle Gann's feeble-minded musings  
> for years while I was living in Chicago (he was "critic" for the  
> Reader where he bored us ad infinitum before moving on to NY), I  
> have to say....this one takes the cake.
>
> If there is a is a correspondence between neocons (aka fascists)  
> and music, I'd look to someone like Gann himself who's been carping  
> on this uptown vs. downtown thing for so long I sometimes wish I  
> could get a frontal lobotomy, in order to alleviate my suffering.  
> Or better yet, he could get one.
>
> I'll take Schoenberg's music (which no matter how many times I  
> listen to, I can always find something new to amaze me) to Gann's  
> insipid, uninspired, boring old baloney any day. Or night.
>
> Please, someone make him go away.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Duff <td at pixar.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Message-ID:
> 	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0707261614060.16796 at marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Kyle Gann spots a correspondence between Neocons and Serialists:
> http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2007/07/color_me_frivolous.html
>
> -- 
> Tom Duff.  To find out a person's userid, ask him.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Matt J. Ingalls" <ingalls at mills.edu>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707261627400.32763 at myfiles.mills.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> man, babyboomer-composers really are holding onto that grudge
> against 12-tone music.. it must have been really bad back in the day..
>
> if gann's analogy and predictions are right, i guess we will be  
> feeling
> the same about the neocons 20 years from now..
>
> -m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From itzat at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 27 15:19:56 2007
From: itzat at earthlink.net (Ernesto Diaz-Infante)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:19:56 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] [Fwd: rod poole]
Message-ID: <46AA6F8C.2090704@earthlink.net>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: rod poole
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:16:44 -0700
From: <ultimatefrog at ca.rr.com>
To: Ernesto Diaz-Infante <itzat at earthlink.net>

Hi Ernesto--

it's still in the planning stage, but the date for rod's memorial 
concert has been set for Aug 26 at dangerous curve in downtown LA. 
kraig grady is curating, and it will be dedicated to re-creating rod's 
music (voice of the bowed guitar, etc) rather than individual tributes. 
   thought you might want to know in case you or other interested folks 
might be around LA at that time.

all best,
jim mcauley

ps--still determined to make it up there someday!!


-- 
______________________________________________________________________
http://www.paxrecordings.com/ernesto
http://www.myspace.com/diazinfante






From setar at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 27 20:26:16 2007
From: setar at pacbell.net (Katherine Setar)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:26:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1185508802.5404.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1185508802.5404.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <46AAB758.5070003@pacbell.net>

I agree that both neocons and Serialists tend to be condescending and 
take themselves seriously.  Anyone who's waded through Babbitt's 
verbiage (regarding his compositional technique) might be tempted to 
assume that this man must really love the sound of his voice.

However, I am positive that Babbitt, Wuorinen, Carter, and all of their 
compatriots can add, subtract, multiply and divide (even if it is in 
modulo 12).  I'm not so sure about Bush.

Katherine Setar

newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
>    5. I see Serious People (Tom Duff)--------------------------

> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Duff <td at pixar.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] I see Serious People
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Message-ID:
> 	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0707261614060.16796 at marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> 
> Kyle Gann spots a correspondence between Neocons and Serialists:
> http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2007/07/color_me_frivolous.html

From bthrew at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 22:42:15 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:42:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>

If we are talking about evolution and the development of the ear, I  
think it would be safe to say that the ancestors of man probably did  
not spend a majority of their time around waterfalls.  Pointing out  
exceptions does not disprove a trend.

Never heard of that danger noise pattern thing...sounds interesting  
though.


On Jul 27, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

> What about water? Waterfalls and waves produce some pretty deep
> tones, and are pretty loud . .  and some animals make some pretty
> deep tones- lions, bears. . .
>
> On a related note, I remember seeing a show once about how
> spectrographic analysis showed that almost all animal "danger" noises
> were essentially the same kind of pattern, but sped up/slowed down
> and in different ranges, etc. I filed it and meant to check it out
> more completely sometime, but never did. Anyone know anything about
> this? Is it bogus?
>
> mg
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2007, at 12:19 PM, barry threw wrote:
>
>> Thunder, earthquakes, avalanche, natural disaster stuff,
>> but I think those could be considered rare AND the volume they
>> produce is great enough that they would be perceived as equally loud
>> on the F/M curve.
>>
>> It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums
>> they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in daily
>> life.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From tim at perkis.com  Sat Jul 28 02:26:03 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:26:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] about.com
Message-ID: <46AB0BAB.6010807@perkis.com>

Ingrid Taylar from about.com did an article about noisy people and an 
interview with me and posted it there.

article/review:
http://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/artsentertainment/a/noisypeople.htm

interview:
http://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/artsentertainment/a/timperkis.htm

Anything stupid or offensive I ostensibly said in the interview I blame 
on her transcription (it is a little ragged)

T


From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 28 03:59:07 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:59:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <C2CF94DC.1F395%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F29ED4C28C47F154F8B151FC1EC0@phx.gbl>


sl wrote:

>Hunh? I thought there was a significant history of people hitting things
>with sticks prior to the invention of drums.

So what? Just hitting random things with sticks usually produces
mid-range sounds, not low tones...

-George

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sat Jul 28 13:44:24 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:44:24 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  the high stuff
Message-ID: <C2D0F8B8.1F40B%21grand@21grand.org>

sl wrote:

>Hunh? I thought there was a significant history of people hitting things
>with sticks prior to the invention of drums.

So what? Just hitting random things with sticks usually produces
mid-range sounds, not low tones...

-George

sl: okay, but of those "random" things, some would probably produce low
tones, which was my point - that people hit things with sticks (or clubs)
that produced low tones before drums were invented.



From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sat Jul 28 13:49:47 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:49:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Jul 27, 2007, at 10:42 PM, barry threw wrote:
> If we are talking about evolution and the development of the ear, I
> think it would be safe to say that the ancestors of man probably did
> not spend a majority of their time around waterfalls.  Pointing out
> exceptions does not disprove a trend.

>> It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums
>> they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in daily
>> life.


Okay, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about- if you've spent  
time on this, please share what you've discovered, as I think this is  
really fascinating- hence another overly long and potentially boring  
post. What instruments are you referring to, and at what time period?  
In own admittedly limited research on this, this is what I've figured  
out:

First of all, to talk about the evolution of hearing, I'm wondering  
which particular "ancestors" you are referring to. For example, the  
Australopithicenes, who lived around 3 million years ago in east  
Africa in the Ethiopia, Tanzania etc. area, were the first to walk  
upright. They spent their time moving between savannah and forest:  
the forest tended to collect around rivers, which include waterfalls  
(the BBC documentary where I got some of this info has a big scene at  
a waterfall. . .), and since waterfalls create pools which are a good  
source of food, I would think it would be a place they would visit  
regularly. (Also, any large river produces pretty low frequencies,  
and these are pretty common to all periods of human history.) On the  
savannah, there were a number of large creatures, including  
Dinotherium, which were enormous elephant-like creatures. We  
certainly don't know what they sounded like, but I would guess that  
the chance that they produced very low sounds is pretty large, and  
the sounds they must have made while walking I imagine must have been  
pretty low and impressive. So right here are two daily and crucial  
elements of our evolutionary ancestor's world, and they both produce  
very low sounds, so I do not see how they could be considered  
"exceptions."

Secondly, there is the history of musical instruments, which is  
nebulous at best. Monkeys, for example, have been known to beat on  
hollow logs in a kind of call and response dialogue, often related to  
territory. So does this type of behavior predate humans as a species,  
and did the Australopithicenes have some form of proto-music? No way  
to say, really. There is one theory, which makes most sense to me,  
that percussion instruments have their origins in stone-tool making,  
since the process itself was "percussive." My guess (and it's only a  
guess) is that its use as an abstraction would roughly follow the  
rise of other forms of abstraction/representation in the paleolithic  
world (such as the proto-art figurines dating 500-300K years ago,  
where stones which, through some natural process seem to resemble a  
human figure, are then modified in some way- though of course there  
are raging controversies surrounding these things. . .). It is hard  
to know what types of wood or stone or anything else would have been  
"played"- the Baka, for example, do "water drumming" (http:// 
web.ukonline.co.uk/baka/water_drumming.htm) - evidence for other  
instruments are flutes from around 35K years ago (there's a possible  
Neanderthal flute from around 60k, but it's under dispute), the  
possible picture of a musical bow from Ari?ge  around 15K years ago.  
Pottery, which may be used as a percussion instrument, was invented  
(3 separate times) around 12K ago.  The first membranophones that we  
know of, on the other hand, are from pictures of frame drums from the  
Catalhoyuk settlement in Anatolia around 8-10K years ago (again,  
there's some dispute about this), and definite depictions from Ur  
from around 4K years ago- so membrane-drums are relative late-comers  
in human musical history, and depictions of them, at least, are  
associated with human settlement and early civilizations, possibly  
even with the rise of agriculture- raising the interesting question  
of native american frame drums: what was the dissemination? Did they  
go from the middle-east proto-civilizations to asian hunter- 
gatherers, or vice-versa, or some other source? There must be a  
dissertation on this somewhere . . . On a side note, some accounts  
have the frame drum (played almost exclusively by women in the  
ancient middle-east) being used specifically for the replication of  
thunder.

So at all periods of instrument invention (as far as I can tell)  
people were around low frequency sounds in their daily environment-  
especially the rivers, waterfalls, the ocean, and large animals- all  
important sources of food in pre-history. Were the low sounds as  
common as mid- to high- range sounds? Well, no, but I would hardly  
say they were "never really heard in daily life."  Secondly, most pre- 
historical instruments (flute, musical bow) produce mid- and high-  
range frequencies. Log drums which could produce lower frequencies  
could be pretty early, but again nothing much lower than either their  
typical environment- 5 minutes in the backyard thwacking a bunch of  
random tree branches quickly produced a D3 [146 hz]- any folks who  
regularly used wood would easily encounter much lower frequencies.

mg


From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 28 20:29:42 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff
In-Reply-To: <C2D0F8B8.1F40B%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <66047.42145.qm@web58015.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

> So what? Just hitting random things with sticks
> usually produces
> mid-range sounds, not low tones...
> 
> -George

Actually I've found that I get a lot of different
pitches when I hit people with sticks, including high
squeels, low grunts, plus all the mid range pleading
me to stop.  The trick is that you have to change up
where you are hitting them in order to getting all the
different sounds.  I also usually have different sizes
of sticks, and some made from different materials as
well.  This really pays off because after you've
beaten them you can take their wallet.

cheers,
jacob

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
http://www.myspace.com/mryellowcake


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  

From ingalls at mills.edu  Sat Jul 28 22:08:53 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
	<3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0707282153580.24210@myfiles.mills.edu>


> which particular "ancestors" you are referring to. For example, the
> Australopithicenes, who lived around 3 million years ago in east

if evolution was real - (IT'S ONLY A THEORY!) 
i woudl assume "human-like" frequency charactaristics of the ear we 
are talking about evolved way before humans. that is of course if 
evolution is real - IT'S ONLY A THEORY!

but i seem to remember seeing some 
pamphlet with a drawing of Eden and there was indeed a waterfall w/ 
rainbow there - so i think you're onto something with this waterfall idea!
So i think God wanted us to SEE waterfalls, so He made our ears less 
sensitive to low frequencies, but He REALLY wanted us to hear clarinet squeaks, so 
made our ears the most sensitive in that range.

--m

From magsatellite at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 30 10:32:37 2007
From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1185768004.3916.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <515242.35392.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


> So i think God wanted us to SEE waterfalls, so He made our ears less 
> sensitive to low frequencies, but He REALLY wanted us to hear clarinet
> squeaks, so 
> made our ears the most sensitive in that range.
> 
> --m


gosh, i'd think he'd want to make our ears most sensitive to the sound of his
booking voice.
god is confusing.

MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel 
magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com
http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz 

From bthrew at gmail.com  Mon Jul 30 10:38:38 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:38:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
	<3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <8671F4BF-0933-42E7-A824-895CFF8A312E@gmail.com>

I'm not an expert on instrument development, or anthropology.  But,  
this conversation has also diverged from the original thesis.  Humans  
can obviously hear low frequencies...

What the Fletcher-Munson curves say is that the ear is more  
*sensitive* to mid-upper range frequencies than it is to low and very  
high.  I have no academic reference for the evolutionary  
justification for this. So while I have no hard proofs of any of  
this, and no one does I'd bet, I'll suggest why I think your examples  
do not convince me that, pre modern times, low frequencies were  
prevalent enough in nature (including things beat with sticks) to  
make the ear sensitive to them.

- The ear ISN'T sensitive to them.  This is provable, so unless we  
think that the construction of the ear was arbitrary, or that Jesus  
doesn't want us to hear low devil frequencies, we have to assume that  
the development of the ear happened in response to some sort of  
environmental stimulus.

- Again, what the F/M curves say is that it takes a higher decibel  
level, at very low and very high frequencies, to create the same  
*perceived loudness* as mid range frequencies at lower decibel  
levels.  With the case of the waterfall, or elephant, the SPL  
produced by those massive things would be great enough that they  
would be perceived as loud, however, if you were to talk to another  
person near a waterfall, you would not have to talk and anywhere near  
the SPL of the waterfall to understand them with the same perceived  
loudness.

Ok, so I have to be more specific, sorry.  Amend "never really heard  
in daily life" to "heard statistically less often in daily life."  
Fuck, I hear low frequencies less often in daily life NOW, and I make  
it a point to try to.  And the do me very little pragmatic good to  
hear.  If I walk through a large urban area, and took a sonogram, I  
_think_ it would be very heavily weighted toward the mid-range.  Hard  
to argue that pre-historic man was swimming in a sea of 20-500 Hz.

Does it really make that little sense that the ear should be more  
sensitive to mid range frequencies because they are much more useful  
much more often?

b





On Jul 28, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

> On Jul 27, 2007, at 10:42 PM, barry threw wrote:
>> If we are talking about evolution and the development of the ear, I
>> think it would be safe to say that the ancestors of man probably did
>> not spend a majority of their time around waterfalls.  Pointing out
>> exceptions does not disprove a trend.
>
>>> It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums
>>> they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in  
>>> daily
>>> life.
>
>
> Okay, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about- if you've spent
> time on this, please share what you've discovered, as I think this is
> really fascinating- hence another overly long and potentially boring
> post. What instruments are you referring to, and at what time period?
> In own admittedly limited research on this, this is what I've figured
> out:
>
> First of all, to talk about the evolution of hearing, I'm wondering
> which particular "ancestors" you are referring to. For example, the
> Australopithicenes, who lived around 3 million years ago in east
> Africa in the Ethiopia, Tanzania etc. area, were the first to walk
> upright. They spent their time moving between savannah and forest:
> the forest tended to collect around rivers, which include waterfalls
> (the BBC documentary where I got some of this info has a big scene at
> a waterfall. . .), and since waterfalls create pools which are a good
> source of food, I would think it would be a place they would visit
> regularly. (Also, any large river produces pretty low frequencies,
> and these are pretty common to all periods of human history.) On the
> savannah, there were a number of large creatures, including
> Dinotherium, which were enormous elephant-like creatures. We
> certainly don't know what they sounded like, but I would guess that
> the chance that they produced very low sounds is pretty large, and
> the sounds they must have made while walking I imagine must have been
> pretty low and impressive. So right here are two daily and crucial
> elements of our evolutionary ancestor's world, and they both produce
> very low sounds, so I do not see how they could be considered
> "exceptions."
>
> Secondly, there is the history of musical instruments, which is
> nebulous at best. Monkeys, for example, have been known to beat on
> hollow logs in a kind of call and response dialogue, often related to
> territory. So does this type of behavior predate humans as a species,
> and did the Australopithicenes have some form of proto-music? No way
> to say, really. There is one theory, which makes most sense to me,
> that percussion instruments have their origins in stone-tool making,
> since the process itself was "percussive." My guess (and it's only a
> guess) is that its use as an abstraction would roughly follow the
> rise of other forms of abstraction/representation in the paleolithic
> world (such as the proto-art figurines dating 500-300K years ago,
> where stones which, through some natural process seem to resemble a
> human figure, are then modified in some way- though of course there
> are raging controversies surrounding these things. . .). It is hard
> to know what types of wood or stone or anything else would have been
> "played"- the Baka, for example, do "water drumming" (http://
> web.ukonline.co.uk/baka/water_drumming.htm) - evidence for other
> instruments are flutes from around 35K years ago (there's a possible
> Neanderthal flute from around 60k, but it's under dispute), the
> possible picture of a musical bow from Ari?ge  around 15K years ago.
> Pottery, which may be used as a percussion instrument, was invented
> (3 separate times) around 12K ago.  The first membranophones that we
> know of, on the other hand, are from pictures of frame drums from the
> Catalhoyuk settlement in Anatolia around 8-10K years ago (again,
> there's some dispute about this), and definite depictions from Ur
> from around 4K years ago- so membrane-drums are relative late-comers
> in human musical history, and depictions of them, at least, are
> associated with human settlement and early civilizations, possibly
> even with the rise of agriculture- raising the interesting question
> of native american frame drums: what was the dissemination? Did they
> go from the middle-east proto-civilizations to asian hunter-
> gatherers, or vice-versa, or some other source? There must be a
> dissertation on this somewhere . . . On a side note, some accounts
> have the frame drum (played almost exclusively by women in the
> ancient middle-east) being used specifically for the replication of
> thunder.
>
> So at all periods of instrument invention (as far as I can tell)
> people were around low frequency sounds in their daily environment-
> especially the rivers, waterfalls, the ocean, and large animals- all
> important sources of food in pre-history. Were the low sounds as
> common as mid- to high- range sounds? Well, no, but I would hardly
> say they were "never really heard in daily life."  Secondly, most pre-
> historical instruments (flute, musical bow) produce mid- and high-
> range frequencies. Log drums which could produce lower frequencies
> could be pretty early, but again nothing much lower than either their
> typical environment- 5 minutes in the backyard thwacking a bunch of
> random tree branches quickly produced a D3 [146 hz]- any folks who
> regularly used wood would easily encounter much lower frequencies.
>
> mg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From bthrew at gmail.com  Mon Jul 30 10:58:39 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:58:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
	<3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <59799AD7-3E9C-4DAC-9C4E-5EE88534043D@gmail.com>

It also seems to me that if we are talking on evolutionary time  
scales, which we are, the time of instrument making man is FAR  
overshadowed by the time man has existed without instruments, by  
hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years.  This would seem to  
me to make the history of instrument making irrelevant as a  
(physically modifying) evolutionary stimulus.

$0.02

b

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA	Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Mon Jul 30 11:12:29 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:12:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <59799AD7-3E9C-4DAC-9C4E-5EE88534043D@gmail.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
	<3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<59799AD7-3E9C-4DAC-9C4E-5EE88534043D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0707301112r9cd1840q635154598f1d6bd7@mail.gmail.com>

Well, maybe the cavemen and cavewomen who enjoyed listening to and
making loud hi-pitched squeals didn't get as many opportunities to
reproduce during cave times. (I feel you, cavepeople, I do.) Thus by
natural selection we have more people who dislike those sounds.

Matt

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 30 13:46:48 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:46:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <46AB0BAB.6010807@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7d2ea$c0da2310$4001a8c0@PG>

Dear bListers,

Surely not new music, but I thought some of you would want to know that
Ingmar Bergman, the great film director of countless astonishing films,
has died in Sweden at the age of 89. Apparently he died peacefully in
his sleep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/235714.stm

RIP...

PG


Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com




From tim at perkis.com  Mon Jul 30 22:29:41 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:29:41 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <000001c7d2ea$c0da2310$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c7d2ea$c0da2310$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <46AEC8C5.7020501@perkis.com>

bergman was the very definition of film art for me and my friends in Ann 
Arbor, growing up into understanding international cinema in the 70's.  
Completely astonishing and eye-opening films, completely changing 
forever my idea of what kind of things are possible in art. Real high 
seriousness, and high beauty like nothing I had ever seen in my first 20 
years. I never got over the sense that he was absolutely the gold 
standard, the real deal.

T



Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> Dear bListers,
>
> Surely not new music, but I thought some of you would want to know that
> Ingmar Bergman, the great film director of countless astonishing films,
> has died in Sweden at the age of 89. Apparently he died peacefully in
> his sleep.
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/235714.stm
>
> RIP...
>
> PG
>
>
> Phillip Greenlief
> c/o Evander Music
> PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
> 94623-9991
> www.evandermusic.com
>
>
>
>
>   

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 31 01:01:29 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:01:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <46AEC8C5.7020501@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <005f01c7d349$010e3490$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Perkis [mailto:tim at perkis.com] 
Subject: Re: RIP: Ingmar Bergman

bergman was the very definition of film art for me and my friends in Ann

Arbor, growing up into understanding international cinema in the 70's.  
Completely astonishing and eye-opening films, completely changing 
forever my idea of what kind of things are possible in art. Real high 
seriousness, and high beauty like nothing I had ever seen in my first 20

years. I never got over the sense that he was absolutely the gold 
standard, the real deal.

T


PG:
I'm with you, T.  I discovered him as probably many did, through The
Seventh Seal. I think the next film was The Virgin Spring, and then Wild
Strawberries. I was pretty much hooked after about 15 minutes of SS
(that scene where Max von Sydow makes his confession to Death just kills
me), but the Virgin Spring! It seemed like a miracle, and it still seems
that way. There's never a shot, a gesture, or anything in his films that
you could call flawed...apart from Serpent's Egg (OK, we'll forgive him
his one embarrassment!). Obviously you have to credit Sven Nykvist for
that ridiculously immaculate camerawork of his. But the flawless
direction, the fantastic performances he got from the actors and the
crew, the deftly sculpted dialogue that never seems to work when others
imitate it, the depth at which he peered down the mouth of humanity -
it's some killin' shit, kids...

Omid and I watched Wild Strawberries tonight - it seemed fitting on the
occasion. Quite a few critics have said that Bergman was too cold...if
there's a film with more humanity than W.S., I'd be curious to know what
it is.

All of those Criterion Bergman releases have extensive interviews
(except the new Eclipse series; the box set entitled "Early Bergman").
I think he must have done quite a lot of them for Swedish television in
the 1990's. 

We watched the interview "On Work" tonight with the WS disc. I'll tell
you what: he was absolutely committed to his craft. The thing he said in
the interview that I could most relate to was something along the lines
of, "My greatest fear is that I will go to the rehearsal and the life
will be gone from the work...that it will become empty or dead..." - (Is
there anyone on the list that CAN'T relate to that fear?). I think he
did a pretty damn good job of keeping the work alive. He made well over
50 films, and how many plays and television scripts did he write and
direct?  He's been an inspiration from the very beginning. 

An improvised Top 10 Bergman list:
Fanny & Alexander
Wild Strawberries
The Virgin Spring
The Seventh Seal
Persona
Summer with Monika
Trilogy: Through a Glass Darkly - Winter Light - The Silence 
Scenes from a Marriage
The Devil's Eye
>From the Life of the Marionettes

^^^^
Hopefully no one will realize I snuck three films in with the trilogy...


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Tue Jul 31 01:07:15 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:07:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] the high stuff (archaeomusicology)
In-Reply-To: <8671F4BF-0933-42E7-A824-895CFF8A312E@gmail.com>
References: <BAY101-F36B4EB86EA172E7685C667C1F30@phx.gbl>
	<D88B18F2-54AC-427A-A858-70AA7FA68D57@gmail.com>
	<DA8E10FD-8FAE-494C-A371-2F1706110D0B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<6D0EA0ED-F369-46B0-8606-60FE24F3E820@gmail.com>
	<3C7A65E8-CB57-4061-A4B5-A992710D9CCE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<8671F4BF-0933-42E7-A824-895CFF8A312E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FF5AA84-7E01-4153-96E7-83EA7DAA004F@matthewgoodheart.com>

One man's divergence is another's evolution. . .

Well, we seem to agree, but perhaps approach from different  
perspectives. As I said before, yes, mid and high range frequencies  
are/were more common, and I'm not disagreeing about the sensitivity  
of the ear or the F/M curves- I'm just not sure what your implying  
about percussion- it didn't make sense to me. What drums were you  
thinking of, and from when?  Secondly, the pre-historic instruments  
that have been found, as far as I understand it, seem to be mostly  
mid- and high- range (please someone correct me if I'm wrong!) More  
simply put, most of the instruments discovered seem to fall within or  
above the range of the human voice.

Again, the evidence is limited by the fact that what has survived as  
"without a doubt" instruments from the past are constructed of bone,  
since it does not decay; also when these instruments appear, they are  
pretty sophisticated, indicating that there was an already an  
extensive history making instruments of this variety, probably of  
wood, reed, etc. So we do not know how early instruments really  
began. . . (Side note: I've also bumped into a couple of cool  
discoveries from about 20K yrs ago: a possible "percussion bone  
orchestra" made from Mammoth bones from the Ukraine, and the use of  
caves as musical instruments: both in playing the "lithophone"  
outcroppings, but also in discovering that areas in caves which  
contained "points of acoustical resonance" consistently correlate  
with the placement of cave paintings. All of these examples come from  
Europe from the Upper Paleolithic, and there's have been recent  
evidence that similar cultural practices existed prior to that in  
Africa at least 70K yrs. ago.)

On the other hand: the relationship between music, instruments, and  
evolution is pretty tricky. There's a good  summary here: <http:// 
www.tagg.org/teaching/Origins1-2.html#pgfId-332427>  but from what I  
understand, some current thinking on the origin of music is that 1)  
since it is a human universal, it contained some kind of evolutionary  
advantage, and 2) it is probably as old as language- Darwin thought  
that "song" actually predates language; some even argue that animals  
make music, and there is actually a field of zoomusicology, which  
analyzes phrase structure in whale songs, or the way the Palm  
Cockatoo will break off a stick and beat on a hollow log. Calling  
this music, of course, is pretty debatable. On the other hand, one of  
the promising theories in evolutionary musicology (if I understand it  
at all) is that pre-human vocalization split into two modes of sonic  
communication; language and music, evolving simultaneously. There is  
also evidence of interdependent evolution of the auditory and the  
vocal systems; so vocalization, and therefore language and music,  
have shaped our hearing (and vice-versa). Secondly, this rise in  
"musilanguage" is simultaneous with the rise in tool production. To  
this end, there are "evolutionary musicologists" investigating the  
"lithophonic" properties of stone tools; apparently sound is an  
essential element in creating flint tools- sensitivity to the  
subtleties of how the stone sounds when struck helps the maker to  
know where to strike next- therefore aural systems with a sensitivity  
to those sonic properties would have had an evolutionary advantage.  
It is not implausible, I think, to at least speculate that a  
connection could have existed between these codeveloping sound and  
rhythm based activities, and at least "quasi-instrumental" uses of  
stone tools.

Since humans have been making stone tools for almost 2.5 million  
years, I'd have to say that it is at least possible that instruments  
played some part in the evolution of our hearing.

my  ?.02470255

mg



On Jul 30, 2007, at 10:38 AM, barry threw wrote:

> I'm not an expert on instrument development, or anthropology.  But,
> this conversation has also diverged from the original thesis.  Humans
> can obviously hear low frequencies...
>
> What the Fletcher-Munson curves say is that the ear is more
> *sensitive* to mid-upper range frequencies than it is to low and very
> high.  I have no academic reference for the evolutionary
> justification for this. So while I have no hard proofs of any of
> this, and no one does I'd bet, I'll suggest why I think your examples
> do not convince me that, pre modern times, low frequencies were
> prevalent enough in nature (including things beat with sticks) to
> make the ear sensitive to them.
>
> - The ear ISN'T sensitive to them.  This is provable, so unless we
> think that the construction of the ear was arbitrary, or that Jesus
> doesn't want us to hear low devil frequencies, we have to assume that
> the development of the ear happened in response to some sort of
> environmental stimulus.
>
> - Again, what the F/M curves say is that it takes a higher decibel
> level, at very low and very high frequencies, to create the same
> *perceived loudness* as mid range frequencies at lower decibel
> levels.  With the case of the waterfall, or elephant, the SPL
> produced by those massive things would be great enough that they
> would be perceived as loud, however, if you were to talk to another
> person near a waterfall, you would not have to talk and anywhere near
> the SPL of the waterfall to understand them with the same perceived
> loudness.
>
> Ok, so I have to be more specific, sorry.  Amend "never really heard
> in daily life" to "heard statistically less often in daily life."
> Fuck, I hear low frequencies less often in daily life NOW, and I make
> it a point to try to.  And the do me very little pragmatic good to
> hear.  If I walk through a large urban area, and took a sonogram, I
> _think_ it would be very heavily weighted toward the mid-range.  Hard
> to argue that pre-historic man was swimming in a sea of 20-500 Hz.
>
> Does it really make that little sense that the ear should be more
> sensitive to mid range frequencies because they are much more useful
> much more often?
>
> b
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2007, at 1:49 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:
>
>> On Jul 27, 2007, at 10:42 PM, barry threw wrote:
>>> If we are talking about evolution and the development of the ear, I
>>> think it would be safe to say that the ancestors of man probably did
>>> not spend a majority of their time around waterfalls.  Pointing out
>>> exceptions does not disprove a trend.
>>
>>>> It's pretty amazing to think that when people first developed drums
>>>> they were producing frequencies that were never really heard in
>>>> daily
>>>> life.
>>
>>
>> Okay, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about- if you've spent
>> time on this, please share what you've discovered, as I think this is
>> really fascinating- hence another overly long and potentially boring
>> post. What instruments are you referring to, and at what time period?
>> In own admittedly limited research on this, this is what I've figured
>> out:
>>
>> First of all, to talk about the evolution of hearing, I'm wondering
>> which particular "ancestors" you are referring to. For example, the
>> Australopithicenes, who lived around 3 million years ago in east
>> Africa in the Ethiopia, Tanzania etc. area, were the first to walk
>> upright. They spent their time moving between savannah and forest:
>> the forest tended to collect around rivers, which include waterfalls
>> (the BBC documentary where I got some of this info has a big scene at
>> a waterfall. . .), and since waterfalls create pools which are a good
>> source of food, I would think it would be a place they would visit
>> regularly. (Also, any large river produces pretty low frequencies,
>> and these are pretty common to all periods of human history.) On the
>> savannah, there were a number of large creatures, including
>> Dinotherium, which were enormous elephant-like creatures. We
>> certainly don't know what they sounded like, but I would guess that
>> the chance that they produced very low sounds is pretty large, and
>> the sounds they must have made while walking I imagine must have been
>> pretty low and impressive. So right here are two daily and crucial
>> elements of our evolutionary ancestor's world, and they both produce
>> very low sounds, so I do not see how they could be considered
>> "exceptions."
>>
>> Secondly, there is the history of musical instruments, which is
>> nebulous at best. Monkeys, for example, have been known to beat on
>> hollow logs in a kind of call and response dialogue, often related to
>> territory. So does this type of behavior predate humans as a species,
>> and did the Australopithicenes have some form of proto-music? No way
>> to say, really. There is one theory, which makes most sense to me,
>> that percussion instruments have their origins in stone-tool making,
>> since the process itself was "percussive." My guess (and it's only a
>> guess) is that its use as an abstraction would roughly follow the
>> rise of other forms of abstraction/representation in the paleolithic
>> world (such as the proto-art figurines dating 500-300K years ago,
>> where stones which, through some natural process seem to resemble a
>> human figure, are then modified in some way- though of course there
>> are raging controversies surrounding these things. . .). It is hard
>> to know what types of wood or stone or anything else would have been
>> "played"- the Baka, for example, do "water drumming" (http://
>> web.ukonline.co.uk/baka/water_drumming.htm) - evidence for other
>> instruments are flutes from around 35K years ago (there's a possible
>> Neanderthal flute from around 60k, but it's under dispute), the
>> possible picture of a musical bow from Ari?ge  around 15K years ago.
>> Pottery, which may be used as a percussion instrument, was invented
>> (3 separate times) around 12K ago.  The first membranophones that we
>> know of, on the other hand, are from pictures of frame drums from the
>> Catalhoyuk settlement in Anatolia around 8-10K years ago (again,
>> there's some dispute about this), and definite depictions from Ur
>> from around 4K years ago- so membrane-drums are relative late-comers
>> in human musical history, and depictions of them, at least, are
>> associated with human settlement and early civilizations, possibly
>> even with the rise of agriculture- raising the interesting question
>> of native american frame drums: what was the dissemination? Did they
>> go from the middle-east proto-civilizations to asian hunter-
>> gatherers, or vice-versa, or some other source? There must be a
>> dissertation on this somewhere . . . On a side note, some accounts
>> have the frame drum (played almost exclusively by women in the
>> ancient middle-east) being used specifically for the replication of
>> thunder.
>>
>> So at all periods of instrument invention (as far as I can tell)
>> people were around low frequency sounds in their daily environment-
>> especially the rivers, waterfalls, the ocean, and large animals- all
>> important sources of food in pre-history. Were the low sounds as
>> common as mid- to high- range sounds? Well, no, but I would hardly
>> say they were "never really heard in daily life."  Secondly, most  
>> pre-
>> historical instruments (flute, musical bow) produce mid- and high-
>> range frequencies. Log drums which could produce lower frequencies
>> could be pretty early, but again nothing much lower than either their
>> typical environment- 5 minutes in the backyard thwacking a bunch of
>> random tree branches quickly produced a D3 [146 hz]- any folks who
>> regularly used wood would easily encounter much lower frequencies.
>>
>> mg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> Barry Threw
> Media Art and Technology
>
>
> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967
> Email: bthrew at gmail.com
> IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
> http:/www.barrythrew.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>


From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 31 02:20:29 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:20:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <005f01c7d349$010e3490$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F370115002046B0C9A4404BC1EF0@phx.gbl>


Tim wrote:

>I never got over the sense that he was absolutely the gold
>standard, the real deal.

And he did it with miniscule budgets and lightning speed
and a consistency that no Hollywood clown could even
conceive of, much less execute. And no car chases, endless
buckets of blood, CGI, million edits in 14 seconds, Bruce Willis,
John Williams, ad fucking nauseam...

But as a 'friend' said to me recently as we were discussing which
movie to watch - "forget that boring pretentious crap you like,
let's watch 'Payback'"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hopeless....

-George

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com


From freemovementarts at gmail.com  Tue Jul 31 04:47:11 2007
From: freemovementarts at gmail.com (Andrew Raffo Dewar)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:47:11 -0400
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1185854403.4858.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1185854403.4858.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <b5a4f8185bdb811f257929cb89aa9b6d@gmail.com>

Very interesting (?) timing, but the great Italian filmmaker 
Michelangelo Antonioni passed away Monday evening at 94.

NY Times obit for MA:
http://tinyurl.com/yplk9q

In musical news, the amazing Tristano-ite pianist Sal Mosca passed on 
Saturday at age 80.


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Jul 31 09:17:07 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:17:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <b5a4f8185bdb811f257929cb89aa9b6d@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1185854403.4858.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<b5a4f8185bdb811f257929cb89aa9b6d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9378670-18C5-4BBB-B1FF-53C3492C2269@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Jul 31, 2007, at 4:47 AM, Andrew Raffo Dewar wrote:

> In musical news, the amazing Tristano-ite pianist Sal Mosca passed on
> Saturday at age 80.

Even sadder is the Tristano bassist Sonny Dallas died last week. he  
was on that incredible trio LP Motion with Lee Konitz and Elvin Jones.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 31 09:30:36 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:30:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F370115002046B0C9A4404BC1EF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000001c7d390$2081d740$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of George Cremaschi
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman

And he did it with miniscule budgets and lightning speed
and a consistency that no Hollywood clown could even
conceive of, much less execute. And no car chases, endless
buckets of blood, CGI, million edits in 14 seconds, Bruce Willis,
John Williams, ad fucking nauseam...

But as a 'friend' said to me recently as we were discussing which
movie to watch - "forget that boring pretentious crap you like,
let's watch
'Payback'"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hopeless....

-George

PG:
It's a lot more hopeless with Bergman and Antonioni having left the
room...

Yeah, it's totally boring and pretentious to want to try to deal with
real problems that real people have. To explore emotional and
intellectual and spiritual concerns; it's totally pretentious to want to
believe in art as a vehicle for self expression, to believe in its
transformative powers...

But, sure: strip of us of every last hope or expression of beauty in the
world and give us car chases and Sandra Bullock to satisfy those needs.
I'm feeling distinctly like Stalker in the closing moments of
Tarkovsky's film - "and what's more, no one needs it..." (the zone/room,
that is...).


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 31 09:31:45 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:31:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <b5a4f8185bdb811f257929cb89aa9b6d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c7d390$497da1b0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Andrew Raffo Dewar
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman

Very interesting (?) timing, but the great Italian filmmaker 
Michelangelo Antonioni passed away Monday evening at 94.
 

PG:
God damn, say it isn't so!


From magsatellite at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 31 09:34:19 2007
From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
Message-ID: <587.76992.qm@web43134.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


... and by "booking" i  meant "booming". i was not sending this message through predictive texting from my phone, which always translates "cool" as "book". dude you are the bookest. really.




> So i think God wanted us to SEE waterfalls, so He made our ears less 
> sensitive to low frequencies, but He REALLY wanted us to hear clarinet
> squeaks, so 
> made our ears the most sensitive in that range.
> 
> --m

>gosh, i'd think he'd want to make our ears most sensitive to the sound of his
>booking voice.
>god is confusing.



MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel 
magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com
http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's 
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 31 09:41:29 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:41:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <b5a4f8185bdb811f257929cb89aa9b6d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c7d391$a5965540$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Andrew Raffo Dewar
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman

Very interesting (?) timing, but the great Italian filmmaker 
Michelangelo Antonioni passed away Monday evening at 94.


PG:
It is "interesting" in that Bergman and Antonioni really went at the
problems from a wholly different perspective - Bergman did it with
intensely probing dialogue, and Antonioni was able to do it with silence
- compare the opening scene of L'Eclisse with the opening scene of
Scenes from a Marriage - they're basically the same scene thematically,
but WOW, did they ever execute it differently. 

Perhaps they were two sides of the same coin. They both certainly had
impeccable and easily identifiable style and the level of craft they
were working on was so high...as Tim put it: the gold standard. 


From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 31 10:34:40 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:34:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] RIP: Ingmar Bergman
In-Reply-To: <000001c7d390$2081d740$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <614269.82639.qm@web58014.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


--- Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
> PG:

> Yeah, it's totally boring and pretentious to want to
> try to deal with
> real problems that real people have. To explore
> emotional and
> intellectual and spiritual concerns; 

I just watched the mini-series version of Scenes from
a Marriage abo