From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 08:04:26 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:04:26 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can second that, I was in the Audience for most of those gigs they were awesome. Damon On Feb 28, 2007, at 11:00 PM, George Cremaschi wrote: > > Mr Ingle wrote: > >> Another comment is that this is music meant to be >> rehearsed. > > I go back, along with Spirit, Alex Weiss, Goodheart etc, > to the beginning - the Marco Eneidi / Glenn Spearman Creative > Music Orchestra, which, with no disrespect meant to anyone > who came later, blew away every subsequent orchestra, stars > or no stars. Two big reasons: rehearsal and Glenn Spearman. > We rehearsed all day every Sunday at Beanbender's, and often, > the rehearsal was followed by a concert. An actual residency, > just like those Monday night at the Village Vanguard bands! > And it was really a band - the same people every week. > We all knew the music, and we all knew what to do. > Marco's music has nothing to do with efficiency, and > everything to do with understanding the system. > Which takes time. And yes, to anyone who doubts it, > there is a system. He is, very consciously, connected > with all sorts of traditions - most of them oral and rote-learning > oriented. Unfortunately, two rehearsals doesn't even begin > to whip something like that into shape. > > And Glenn Spearman - well, as a co-leader, he was perfect > with Marco, very verbal and interested in explaining 'the music'. > Glenn was not shy about telling folks what they should be doing. > And as a player, I'll put it this way - I still get shivers thinking > about the times the band would be at a full boil, and Glenn > would stand up and take a solo and effortlessly sail over > the top, bringing us all up there with him. Lifting the > bandstand, they used to call it. The only other person > I've heard do that on that level is Peter Brotzmann. > When it was all happening, it was a religious experience. > > -George > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find what you need at prices you?ll love. Compare products and save at > MSN? Shopping. > http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/? > ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701 > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 10:07:15 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:07:15 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c75c2c$761766b0$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of George Cremaschi Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm I go back, along with Spirit, Alex Weiss, Goodheart etc, to the beginning - the Marco Eneidi / Glenn Spearman Creative Music Orchestra, which, with no disrespect meant to anyone who came later, blew away every subsequent orchestra, stars or no stars. Two big reasons: rehearsal and Glenn Spearman. We rehearsed all day every Sunday at Beanbender's, and often, the rehearsal was followed by a concert. An actual residency, just like those Monday night at the Village Vanguard bands! And it was really a band - the same people every week. We all knew the music, and we all knew what to do. Marco's music has nothing to do with efficiency, and everything to do with understanding the system. Which takes time. And yes, to anyone who doubts it, there is a system. He is, very consciously, connected with all sorts of traditions - most of them oral and rote-learning oriented. Unfortunately, two rehearsals doesn't even begin to whip something like that into shape. And Glenn Spearman - well, as a co-leader, he was perfect with Marco, very verbal and interested in explaining 'the music'. Glenn was not shy about telling folks what they should be doing. And as a player, I'll put it this way - I still get shivers thinking about the times the band would be at a full boil, and Glenn would stand up and take a solo and effortlessly sail over the top, bringing us all up there with him. Lifting the bandstand, they used to call it. The only other person I've heard do that on that level is Peter Brotzmann. When it was all happening, it was a religious experience. -George PG: You got me there. I know...it is really hard to find people who are willing to make a commitment to play on a regular basis anymore. And when people do make a commitment over a long period of time things really happen in a group. The Lost Trio (OK, different music), has been together for 13 years now, and we rehearse regularly, whether we're playing out in public or not (more often it's "not"...). There's nothing to compare with getting really deep into your band-mates playing and your group's repertoire. We have an enormous book of material after being together all these years; we have enough new material at the moment to make three albums. We don't do "subs" if someone can't make it; if we all can't make a gig, we say no to it. ROVA has achieved the same goals - nearly 30 years of music making with weekly rehearsals: an enormous repertoire; a deeply entrenched "group sound"; the list goes on and on. There's a reason why these bands sound as good as they sound...time: music exists in time, and it takes time to make great music. I guess my comments about Marco's "system", is that for what happened (a "quick" residency), there are limitations as to what you can achieve with that system. If Marco still lived here, and was able to do what happened back in the day, then the system works fine. It's a long, slow to develop process; and anyone that loves Mexican food or other cuisines that function on slow cooking, will tell you that's where it's at. The original Marco Orchestra happened nearly 15 years ago. How many of those original players would be able to make such a commitment today? Where would the weekly rehearsals and performances take place? How many people on this list, honestly, would be deeply committed to such a thing today? I tried to have a monthly workshop (ImprovGarage), hosted by a variety of extremely talented and innovative musicians. People lost interest after 9 months and the "regulars" whittled down to just a few people (3 - 4). Why did that happen? These are the kinds of questions I ask myself when I consider putting a band together. I've put together a new trio that needs a lot of rehearsal to learn my new compositions. It took us two months just to get a rehearsal schedule together, and we're all musicians who are seriously committed to "the work". We've had three rehearsals, and we're doing a little performance today at the school where I teach, and I have to tell you, we're not really ready - we're doing the "easy compositions", three two-hour rehearsals have not prepared us to play the other stuff...so I get it, believe me; I get it! Faced with these kinds of problems, I made the comments that I made regarding the Marco process. They are comments and considerations that don't seem to go away. I am looking for solutions to these problems. That is why I took part in this dialogue, not to argue the merits of Marco or his system. I said it on the onset, and I'll say it again - Marco is a great saxophonist who has given a lot to the community. And I agree with George, when that band was rehearsing regularly it was an amazing experience, no matter which side of the bandstand you were on. And I will also repeat that I MISS GLENN SPEARMAN immensely! From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 10:05:36 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:05:36 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <000001c75c2c$761766b0$4001a8c0@PG> References: <000001c75c2c$761766b0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:07 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > I guess my comments about Marco's "system", is that for what happened > (a > "quick" residency), there are limitations as to what you can achieve > with that system. - I have to admit I am really surprised that you (one the most intelligent people I know) of all people keep saying this. It has all the information you need: the pitches and the direction. The rest is up to the improvisor. The only Limitations are the improvisors imagination. the reason the other information is not given is because after it is established YOU provide that information. It is not through composed music, it is music for improvisors. It is meant to keep a harmonic thread through an improvisation. I mean, Cecil Made it up, and he is not a moron. You of all people should be able to play the shit out of this stuff. Damon From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu Mar 1 10:43:12 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:43:12 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5e4b5dd5891f9f1c265777ee19470fff@matthewgoodheart.com> > George said: > I go back, along with Spirit, Alex Weiss, Goodheart etc, > to the beginning - the Marco Eneidi / Glenn Spearman Creative > Music Orchestra, which, with no disrespect meant to anyone > who came later, blew away every subsequent orchestra, stars > or no stars. Two big reasons: rehearsal and Glenn Spearman. > . . .We all knew the music, and we all knew what to do. > Marco's music has nothing to do with efficiency, and > everything to do with understanding the system. > Which takes time. I would agree there was something exceptional about that time. Not only did the big band rehearse, but that music was the center of what many of us were reaching toward. I had been working closely with Glenn and his system for a few years, and most hours of my practice and composing time was spent working in that form, and trying to understand it, push myself deeper into it. There was a personal investment that ran much deeper than just wanting to make "good music": I actually BELIEVED in the music, that it was doing something important in the world. There was a single-mindedness to it: that music was about THAT music, and nothing else. Not that we hadn't heard Cage or Xenakis or etc. etc, but that music was only consumed by what we were doing, and Glenn at least didn't have any pretensions about referencing anything else. It wasn't about "expanding the form" or even "digging new ground:" it wasn't about "newness," it was about Itself; chaotic, passionate, ferociously sincere, consuming all that had led to it, cannibalistic; it was transcendent because we knew it to be transcendent; It was the end of music. Man, there's nothing so great as drinking the kool-aid. From bthrew at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 11:02:50 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (Barry Threw) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:02:50 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Masterpieces Or Fakes? The Joyce Hatto Scandal In-Reply-To: <001e01c75b6b$32139180$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> References: <188009.1417.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001e01c75b6b$32139180$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> Message-ID: <45E7235A.5030509@gmail.com> Craig Stuart Sapp is the guy in London that developed the algorithm that figured this out. Evidently it is universal enough that any audio can be compared, effectively fingerprinting tracks. Copyrights will live with the audio if (when most likely) this becomes available. b Jon Raskin wrote: > What I find interesting about this "scandal" is that it seems like the > husband did a great job of creating a version of the pieces. His wife didn't > perform them or parts of them but concept employed, at least on the ones he > altered we greeted with admiration. It was a classical form of mash up and > something that is common place in the recording process. How many edits and > changes are done on a classical recording? Perfection is altered takes and > with a bit a stance change it could have been present as piano repertoire by > an engineer. The new Scratch Perry of classical music. Enough of it has > been recorded, start playing with the recordings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu > [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of J. Segel > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:19 AM > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Masterpieces Or Fakes? The Joyce Hatto Scandal > > > --- newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote: >> I've talked to someone who worked with Frank Sinatra at one point, and >> evidently he would show up to the session, do a couple of takes, then >> go home, and I suppose in the older days they were probably good >> takes. In the later years, after he left, the label would barrage the >> studio with every recording of a needed song he ever made and they >> would paste in SYLLABLES to create a good performance, EQing and >> DSPing appropriately, all unbeknownst to Frank, but at LEAST it was >> from his own performances! > > > reminds me of that nashville engineer's joke, in re: comping and fixing the > singer's tracks in protools or whatever. > singer does two takes of the song. > engineer says "ok, that's fine, you can go home now." > singer says, "don't you want me to do it right?" > engineer drawls "...if you want it to take all night...." > > MAGNETIC -- Jonathan Segel PO Box 460816 S.F. CA. 94146-0816 > magsatellite at yahoo.com <---> jsegel at magneticmotorworks.com > http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- barry threw composition : sound : programming http://www.barrythrew.com bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com 857-544-3967 Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the sensibility of men. - Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 11:36:12 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:36:12 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c75c38$df1667e0$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Damon Smith Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm - I have to admit I am really surprised that you (one the most intelligent people I know) of all people keep saying this. It has all the information you need: the pitches and the direction. The rest is up to the improvisor. The only Limitations are the improvisors imagination. the reason the other information is not given is because after it is established YOU provide that information. It is not through composed music, it is music for improvisors. It is meant to keep a harmonic thread through an improvisation. I mean, Cecil Made it up, and he is not a moron. You of all people should be able to play the shit out of this stuff. PG: I can play it - and I think I play it as well as anyone who isn't Marco. I understand the system perfectly. I will say it again: I entered this dialogue to raise some questions about the various processes involved when putting a large ensemble together. I'm interested in those questions and any possible solutions - that's why I started ImprovGarage. I keep hearing folks defending Marco's process. That's nice. What I have been hoping for all along is that this would open up into a dialogue about a variety of processes that deal with the problems of large ensemble music. I put one of my processes on the table for discussion. I was hoping other folks would do the same. I was hoping this wouldn't turn into an "us and them" conversation, as it so often does on this list. But hope as I may, the conversation inevitably becomes mired in allegiances to heroes and role models and the good old days. Fair enough: I appreciate George and John's comment on the value of hard work. Of course! = There's nothing that can replace it. Perhaps that's the only solution to any question you could ever ask about any kind of music - you have to put in the time. I am comfortable with that solution; I've been doing the work for over 35 years now (but didn't start playing saxophone until 30 years ago). I have looked in many directions for solutions to the problems - not just music, but other artistic disciplines as well. Call me a "post-modern, lowercase musician with non-idiomatic concerns" if you want (I love you Ingle!). Just call me to play some music! I had this discussion with Steve Adams (who also knows a bit about writing for large ensemble) and he agrees with me completely. He was glad that I voiced my concerns with Marco. He also believes the system to be "inefficient", with regard to the time it takes to achieve the results it often achieves. But to hell with all of that! Here are the questions I want to address, if anyone is still awake: 1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for large ensemble? 2) How does a musician's time commitment affect those tools or results? 3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend rehearsing a composition? 4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay together over a long period of time? (the bay area is actually way ahead of many other scenes in this regard...it's unfair to point the finger at any of us - so just know I'm not pointing any fingers, but asking a question). 5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and develop a compositional language based on that knowledge? 6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices and results), or non-successfully? 7) What are the compositional tools available today other than traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, and Marco's system? 8) How is writing for improvisers different than writing for musicians with more "traditional" musical skills? 9) What compositional tools can be developed when your group has both kinds of players? 10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and thoughtful criticism that is so obviously focused on the evolution of this music? 11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for large ensemble shows? 12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles? From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 11:58:05 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:58:05 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <000001c75c38$df1667e0$4001a8c0@PG> References: <000001c75c38$df1667e0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: <54154be41105586d2f6a1b2fd4c22b2c@balancepointacoustics.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > He also believes the system > to be "inefficient", with regard to the time it takes to achieve the > results it often achieves. > - It is not anymore inefficient than free improvisation. Once you play the pitches and improvise the objective is met. What takes the most time is people looking for underlying information when there is none. Damon From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 12:23:46 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:23:46 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <54154be41105586d2f6a1b2fd4c22b2c@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <000d01c75c3f$8477fea0$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Damon Smith Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm On Mar 1, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > He also believes the system > to be "inefficient", with regard to the time it takes to achieve the > results it often achieves. > - It is not anymore inefficient than free improvisation. Once you play the pitches and improvise the objective is met. What takes the most time is people looking for underlying information when there is none. Damon PG: OK! You've made your point, and it's a good point! There is no underlying information. Just use the material. It's simple. I agree with you. But I'm trying to move on to other aspects of this discussion...I posed some questions. We'll see if anyone takes the bait. From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 13:03:43 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:03:43 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <000d01c75c3f$8477fea0$4001a8c0@PG> References: <000d01c75c3f$8477fea0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: <187716266d098490c10fa987ef9654fa@balancepointacoustics.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > But I'm trying to move on to other aspects of this discussion...I posed > some questions. We'll see if anyone takes the bait. -Well I think the main thing is that each person has to take their own responsibility for organizing themselves and their section. Drums and basses have confront not being the only ones as is the normal situation. For this concert that was easy for the basses, George and I have been in multiple bass projects many times together over the years and understand how to work it out, the other two were my students. In this concert the only trouble in my mind is that Peter and Timmy played as if they were the only drummer. The drummers could have gotten together and worked it out or I guess George or I could have tried to organize the whole "Rhythm Section" since we know the drill but we didn't. The basses discussed numbering our parts, cueing certain ideas and trading off. It took less than a minute of discussion and it worked for us. Weasel and I listened to an incredible Tony Oxley Orchestra recording on tour with four drummers that is just amazing. They have the traditions of Globe Unity and KIng ?b? to draw from, so that is a big help. My point is that even experienced improvisors show up to these things waiting to be told what to do, when you have to show up ready to organize yourself. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon Just released: bpa009 "sperrgut" birgit ulher/damon smith/martin blume bpa 010 "cruxes" aurora josephson/joelle leandre/damon smith/martin blume bpa 011 "sextesense" john butcher/aaron bennett/henry kaiser/danielle degruttola/damon smith/jerome bryerton From jmojingle at yahoo.com Thu Mar 1 13:19:50 2007 From: jmojingle at yahoo.com (John Ingle) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:19:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewMusic] Phillip's questions/animal farm In-Reply-To: <000001c75c38$df1667e0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: <89356.33699.qm@web50506.mail.yahoo.com> Phillip said: Call me a > "post-modern, lowercase musician > with non-idiomatic concerns" if you want (I love you > Ingle!). Just call > me to play some music! Hey, I certainly wasn't trying to call anyone anything. I attempted to analize (roughly and in general) what was going on in Marco's music in my too-long post. My comment above was in the context of a general plea for us to attempt to look at someone's music for its own concerns (ok you de-cons and post-structs... do your worst!), rather than look for our own concerns and say "ah-hah!... this isn't happening in this music." I try to deal with the most practical terms myself when organizing any ensemble piece. 1. who is available, willing (and HAPPY!!!) to rehearse. 2. Does that grouping of intsruments have a sonic chance of "working" together? Is the harmonic spectrum range small or large, is the dynamic range flexible or confined? In other words, orchestration. 3. When writing for improvisers, let them improvise! If there are any melodic/rhythmic/harmonic/textural/dynamic/formal constraints, make sure that they are both clear and achievable for the players. DON"T ASK A PLAYER TO PLAY IN TUNE OR IN TIME IF THEY DON"T HAVE THAT SKILL! Use their strenghts, especially with non-traditional musicians. Wadada Leo Smith is a Master of this. I've seen/heard him use players that I thought were useless and then get amazing results from them... though this is achieved in his rehearsal process, not neccesarily in the score. 4. When dealing with "traditional" players have ample material for them to play. Don't ask them to improvise completely free unless they are willing,able and adept... narrow their choices 5. FIND A WAY TO HAVE A CLEAR WAY OF ON/OFF. i.e play here.. don't play here and most importantly PLEASE STOP THAT NOW... 6. If your score has clear sections, use the simplest way of cueing possible, both for rehearsing (REALLY IMPORTANT AND TIME-SAVING) and on the gig. If you are using aural cues, make sure they can be heard. I like the simple 1-5 finger cues with one hand, starting over after 5, for groups larger than a sextet or so. ok, my natural ability to make a long story short is taking over here (thanks MOM!) that's all simple stuff.. why bother even writing it... I guess I mean that the simple stuff is the most important really. About the rehearsal/performance space issue, wow, big in the Bay Area. I'd love to have a rehearsal space for myself as well as a place big enough for large ensembles (I guess I better start playing the lottery). In Memphis I had a cafe where all my musician friends played, though I never had the time 'cause I was always trying to make rent, and it was only $300 a month! Anyone got a building to donate? (Gotta be grateful for 21 Grand and the Luggage Store even without ideal acoustics or a piano.) later folks, John Ingle > But to hell with all of that! Here are the questions > I want to address, > if anyone is still awake: > > 1) What are the various compositional tools we have > for writing for > large ensemble? > 2) How does a musician's time commitment affect > those tools or results? > 3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend > rehearsing a > composition? > 4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay > together over a long > period of time? (the bay area is actually way ahead > of many other scenes > in this regard...it's unfair to point the finger at > any of us - so just > know I'm not pointing any fingers, but asking a > question). > 5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a > group and develop a > compositional language based on that knowledge? > 6) Who are some of the local composers that have > dealt with that > knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition > styles/practices > and results), or non-successfully? > 7) What are the compositional tools available today > other than > traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, > and Marco's system? > 8) How is writing for improvisers different than > writing for musicians > with more "traditional" musical skills? > 9) What compositional tools can be developed when > your group has both > kinds of players? > 10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and > thoughtful criticism > that is so obviously focused on the evolution of > this music? > 11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for > large ensemble shows? > 12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for > large ensembles? > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 13:12:54 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:12:54 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Phillip's questions/animal farm In-Reply-To: <89356.33699.qm@web50506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <89356.33699.qm@web50506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03981a4775727d2d62470784e21478da@balancepointacoustics.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 1:19 PM, John Ingle wrote: > Wadada Leo Smith is a > Master of this. I've seen/heard him use players that I > thought were useless and then get amazing results from > them... - Count me in there, I was way too young inexperienced when he asked me to play with him but I could not say no, and with a little focus the music worked. It is actually pretty tough to make bad music with him. I heard a trio recording of him, Barre Phillips and G?nter Sommer In Dec. that incredible. I think MR. Robair saw it live. Damon From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 13:50:58 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:50:58 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Phillip's questions/animal farm In-Reply-To: <89356.33699.qm@web50506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c75c4b$b2f016d0$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of John Ingle Subject: [NewMusic] Phillip's questions/animal farm Phillip said: Call me a > "post-modern, lowercase musician > with non-idiomatic concerns" if you want (I love you > Ingle!). Just call > me to play some music! Hey, I certainly wasn't trying to call anyone anything. PG: Nonetheless, I think your phrase suits me just fine, even if it wasn't "meant" for me. If it isn't painfully clear by now, I have great respect for your horn playing and your musical ideas and the obvious hard work and thinking you've put into these areas of your life. You're also a great cook - you really should invite me over for dinner more often! I also greatly enjoyed your ImprovGarage presentation...although it could have been more "efficient" in its presentation... ;) (I'm teasing you with this last statement!!!!!!!! - I'm finally realizing humor that works in person doesn't work online...forgive me...I am a slow learner). Dear John: I don't think any of the statements you made in the other part of your post are "obvious" or "simple", and I thank you for getting down to what I've wanted to get to all along. It's clear there are a lot of folks on this list with a wide range of experiences and exposure to "this music". I think we all make a mistake when we assume everyone knows what we know (in the very particular way that we know it) just because we all live in the same general geographic location and have and interest in "this music". I think we need to err more often on the side of being overly simple - overly clear - overly concise, if possible. I will try to apply those conditions to my own posts. Thanks for your post and the concerns that you illustrated when writing music for a large ensemble of improvising musicians (or non-improvisers). I think this is an area where this list could really become more developed. I often wish we could do more of this - like "workshop discussion list", where people present ideas they are working on in their practice, in composition, in performance, or on the business side of things. You know: discuss things! I like it that so many folks toss links to fascinating articles and they get discussed, but I wish there were more examples of folks presenting their own ideas and others could have a chance to comment, ask questions, and learn from those ideas. Enough said. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 13:53:32 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 13:53:32 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <187716266d098490c10fa987ef9654fa@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <000201c75c4c$0ec28f10$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Damon Smith Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm My point is that even experienced improvisors show up to these things waiting to be told what to do, when you have to show up ready to organize yourself. PG: Fantastic! This message should show up on more music stands across the country. From weaselw at juno.com Thu Mar 1 16:15:48 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 16:15:48 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm Message-ID: <20070301.161817.3916.2.weaselw@juno.com> > In this concert the only trouble in my mind is that Peter and Timmy > played as if they were the only drummer. The drummers could have > gotten together and worked it out or I guess George or I could have tried > to organize the whole "Rhythm Section" since we know the drill but we > didn't. look, we were not set up in a way that would even allow the drummers to work as a section! i couldn't see spirit at all and tim and peter were off in their worlds, being "The Only Drummer in the room". I like both those guys, but you hit that one on the head. honestly, i didn't really NEED to work with them as a section. it wouldn't have changed shit. if they wanted to overplay, what the hell would i be able to do about it? wasn't it enough that i told the entire rhythm section to shut the fuck up during the second rehearsal? i guess not. BTW - the drummers had NO PARTS. tim told me that he would try and "stay out of the way" when i played, which showed a certain amount of sensitivity on his part (appreciated), but honestly, that didn't really solve anything. basically you had peter and timmy freaking the fuck out the whole time on the right side of the stage and it pretty much demolished the entire horn section. i can't teach people how to be sensitive, but i can NOT book them in my big band, that's for goddamn sure. that's how i solve that one! > Weasel and I listened to an incredible Tony Oxley Orchestra > recording on tour with four drummers that is just amazing. They have the > traditions of Globe Unity and KIng ?b? to draw from, so that is a > big help. oddly enough, the four drummers on that piece can control their dynamics, lay out, acknowledge that the rhythm section doesn't have to clog the whole piece up with constant noodling. > My point is that even experienced improvisors show up to these > things waiting to be told what to do, when you have to show up ready to > organize yourself. i did organize myself. i did what the hell i wanted to. what i wanted to do was at total odds with most of the rhythm section and their personal sensibilities. ww From weaselw at juno.com Thu Mar 1 16:08:15 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 16:08:15 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm Message-ID: <20070301.161817.3916.1.weaselw@juno.com> > 1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for large ensemble? traditional notation. time based notation. graphic notation. conduction/cuing. improvisation. i-ching, etc etc etc. i don't think there's any real question of how to compose for large ensemble, mr. devil's advocate. > 2) How does a musician's time commitment affect those tools or results? if we're using methods, the clarity of execution will be commensurate with the familiarity of said methods. > 3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend rehearsing a composition? as much as it needs to be done well! > 4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay together over a > long period of time? (the bay area is actually way ahead of many other scenes i believe that a lot of "key" players are too busy doing other things. a lot of improvisers i've met here don't like rehearsing or playing when there isn't a gig. that, is problematic for anybody (like me) who might want to deal with composition in my improvisation. instead of worrying about it, i try to make the best possible ad hoc situations for myself and try to maintain recurring ensembles with the hope that those groups develop a voice by the nature of them being used repeatedly. > 5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and > develop a compositional language based on that knowledge? one has to assess the skills and/or weaknesses of the members the best one can and take it from there. > 6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that > knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices > and results), or non-successfully? i have been able to do this when i can get an ensemble together that understands that it will have to rehearse. i have my doubts about throwing together anything successful on a larger scale without some committment from the musicians. the last thing i want to do is write something for a big group that mutinies or is not prepared to to do the work to make it sound as good as possible. > 7) What are the compositional tools available today other than traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, and Marco's system? those tools are fine. they're all a solid foundation to doing something like this. i'm not sure we need more tools. > 8) How is writing for improvisers different than writing for > musicians with more "traditional" musical skills? the challenge is to create something that allows everyone to do what they want to do and still sound good as a whole. > 9) What compositional tools can be developed when your group has > both kinds of players? letting people do things that reflect their skills and avoiding things that they aren't good at. you wouldn't have peter brotzmann sight read a ridiculous, traditionally notated line, but evan parker might be good for it. . . > 10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and thoughtful > criticism that is so obviously focused on the evolution of this music? i'm not. > 11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for large ensemble shows? something with moderately flat acoustics. horn players tend to like some reverberance, i've noted. > 12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles? uh . . . ww From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 18:09:03 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:03 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <20070301.161817.3916.2.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070301.161817.3916.2.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: I am not pointing the finger at you, I am just saying that part of that situation is that each individual is responsible for what they do and don't do. A guy I ran into today who was in the audience said all he could hear were horns anyway, so there you go. Damon On Mar 1, 2007, at 4:15 PM, weasel walter wrote: > ook, we were not set up in a way that would even allow the drummers to > work as a section! i couldn't see spirit at all and tim and peter were > off in their worlds, being "The Only Drummer in the room". I like both > those guys, but you hit that one on the head. honestly, i didn't really > NEED to work with them as a section. it wouldn't have changed shit. if > they wanted to overplay, what the hell would i be able to do about it? > wasn't it enough that i told the entire rhythm section to shut the fuck > up during the second rehearsal? i guess not. BTW - the drummers had NO > PARTS. tim told me that he would try and "stay out of the way" when i > played, which showed a certain amount of sensitivity on his part > (appreciated), but honestly, that didn't really solve anything. > basically > you had peter and timmy freaking the fuck out the whole time on the > right > side of the stage and it pretty much demolished the entire horn > section. > i can't teach people how to be sensitive, but i can NOT book them in my > big band, that's for goddamn sure. that's how i solve that one! From weaselw at juno.com Thu Mar 1 18:31:01 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:31:01 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm Message-ID: <20070301.183104.3016.0.weaselw@juno.com> i know you're not pointing the finger at me. i'm just trying to figure out what happened and what needs to be done. all he could hear were horns? i seriously doubt that. during rehearsals i though that too, but it became clear after a little more investigation what was really happening . . . i spent most of the rehearsals in front of the band, trying to figure out what the balance was and my conclusion was this (and this took awhile): the basses - namely you and george - were sooo loud that it made everything seem like it was inaudible/noise. i was standing there looking at all three other drummers batting away and i actually couldn't hear anything they were doing until we turned the basses down considerably. after that i could hear horns, drums and basses equally. i would assume the volume of the basses came back up during the show and that might explain what the audience member heard. now, i'm not pinning this on you either - hardly. what i think could have been done was if marco did a leeetle more conduction and helped you guys with your volumes. i went to marco in rehearsal and said "damon and george are way too loud" and he laughed and said "that's damon and george!" that was the end of that one. ww On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:09:03 -0800 Damon Smith writes: > I am not pointing the finger at you, I am just saying that part of > that situation is that each individual is responsible for what they do > and don't do. > A guy I ran into today who was in the audience said all he could > hear were horns anyway, so there you go. From tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 1 21:26:23 2007 From: tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net (ted brinkley) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:26:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewMusic] MAnimal Farm In-Reply-To: <20070301.161817.3916.1.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <312222.50397.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > 12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles? well, if you're stuck you can rehearse at my place in the (almost daly) city. one of the reasons i live there is so that, when i need to, i can rehearse a group (of sight-reading, unoriginal derivative conventional traditional arguably manustuprative musicians) numbering up to 25, late into the night or early mornings. it's a one-story building. i try to remember to mention it to people....within reason. From grobair at emusician.com Thu Mar 1 22:12:31 2007 From: grobair at emusician.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:12:31 -0600 Subject: [NewMusic] trio with Wadada on disc References: Message-ID: <41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6AF5@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com> Damon wrote about Wadada Leo Smith: <> That was an interesting and strange set of music to hear in its live form. Wadada had also done a solo trumpet/stompbox set, which was rather unfocused, in the same festival (FMP fest, '05). But he was on fire in the trio, as were the others. But not in the "big blowout" sense. Just tuned in and inspired. Many of the younger Germans in the audience said to me later something like "There's Gunter doing his 'Gunter thing', as usual." Whatever -- it was my first time seeing him, and it was a real treat. I had no idea it had been released... From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Mar 1 22:04:55 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:04:55 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] trio with Wadada on disc In-Reply-To: <41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6AF5@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com> References: <41E4A72A1EA81E429C136B30030C141A1F6AF5@KSOPEXC03.intertec.com> Message-ID: I heard it at Helma's, it is not out. Intakt has a Duo with Gunter and Wadada on the way. Fuchs was not much of a fan of Sommer before and now he really likes him based on that performance, so I doubt he was just doing his typical thing.... Damon On Mar 1, 2007, at 10:12 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Damon wrote about Wadada Leo Smith: > < Dec. that incredible. I think MR. Robair saw it live.>> > > That was an interesting and strange set of music to hear in its live > form. Wadada had also done a solo trumpet/stompbox set, which was > rather unfocused, in the same festival (FMP fest, '05). But he was on > fire in the trio, as were the others. But not in the "big blowout" > sense. Just tuned in and inspired. > > Many of the younger Germans in the audience said to me later something > like "There's Gunter doing his 'Gunter thing', as usual." Whatever -- > it was my first time seeing him, and it was a real treat. > > I had no idea it had been released... > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 23:07:30 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:07:30 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] trio with Wadada on disc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c75c99$721ccbf0$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Damon Smith Re: [NewMusic] trio with Wadada on disc I heard it at Helma's, it is not out. Intakt has a Duo with Gunter and Wadada on the way. Fuchs was not much of a fan of Sommer before and now he really likes him based on that performance, so I doubt he was just doing his typical thing.... PG: His "typical" thing is pretty fucking dope. The trio recording with Kowald, Smith and Gunter is one of my all time favorite horn trio recordings. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 23:18:59 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:18:59 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <20070301.161817.3916.1.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <000001c75c9b$0cacdc90$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of weasel walter Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm > 1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for large ensemble? traditional notation. time based notation. graphic notation. conduction/cuing. improvisation. i-ching, etc etc etc. i don't think there's any real question of how to compose for large ensemble, mr. devil's advocate. PG: Thanks for the responses, WW. I realize a lot of the questions were fairly pedestrian. The idea was to offer people on the list that have never written for - or have tried to direct - improvising or new music large ensembles a chance to know more about the ways that we deal with some of those problems. I can see someone benefiting from the responses you gave (when you weren't being quite so cheeky). Forgive my pesky nature, which is to work to disseminate what could be useful information. But the information is only as useful as the response in this case. The questions are just there to stimulate some kind of dialogue. From gcremaschi at hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 23:36:25 2007 From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:36:25 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] MAnimal Farm In-Reply-To: <312222.50397.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mr Brinkley wrote: >arguably manustuprative musicians Manustuprative? Is that a word? -George _________________________________________________________________ Find what you need at prices you?ll love. Compare products and save at MSN? Shopping. http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701 From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu Mar 1 23:52:19 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:52:19 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] MANUSTRUPATION Farm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8036235171229b54c515f70b487f3358@matthewgoodheart.com> From the OED: manustupration, n. rare. Now hist. and arch. [Alteration of MASTUPRATION n. after classical Latin manus hand (see MANUS n.1), founded on the proposed etymology < man{umac} + stupr{amac}re STUPRATE v. (see MASTURBATE v.). Cf. French manustupration (1771); R. Dunglison (1848 Med. Lex. 525/2) and J. Copland (1858 Dict. Pract. Med. III. 485/1) record also post-classical Latin manustupratio.] Masturbation. 1728 E. CHAMBERS Cycl. 78/2 Fornication... Its Species are,..that comitted by Persons on themselves, Manustupration. 1858 J. COPLAND Dict. Pract. Med. III. 441/2 The disease [sc. nymphomania] originated in manustupration acquired from a native Indian nurse, when the child was only four years old. 1921 Jrnl. Philos. 18 625 The pervert performs manustupration. 1993 ELH 60 254 Seventeenth- and eighteenth-century writers tended to rely on the..etymology: from manual stupration to manustupration to mastupration.rare. Now hist. and arch. On Mar 1, 2007, at 11:36 PM, George Cremaschi wrote: > > Mr Brinkley wrote: > >> arguably manustuprative musicians > > Manustuprative? Is that a word? > > -George > > _________________________________________________________________ > Find what you need at prices you?ll love. Compare products and save at > MSN? Shopping. > http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/? > ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102&tcode=T001MSN20A0701 > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri Mar 2 00:22:01 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:22:01 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] MAnimal Farm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001a01c75ca3$db4ab740$4001a8c0@PG> -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of George Cremaschi Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:36 PM To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Subject: Re: [NewMusic] MAnimal Farm Mr Brinkley wrote: >arguably manustuprative musicians Manustuprative? Is that a word? -George PG: That Mr. Brinkley, he's the OED's best friend... From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri Mar 2 00:43:01 2007 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:43:01 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm/Phillip's questions References: Message-ID: Phillip Greenlief asked: >1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for large ensemble? Everything is a tool if you want it to be. >2) How does a musician's time commitment affect those tools or results? Greatly, or not at all. >3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend rehearsing a composition? Depends on the composition. Also, you must define "composition" for a more accurate answer. >4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay together over a long period of time? (the bay area is actually way ahead of many other scenes in this regard...it's unfair to point the finger at any of us - so just know I'm not pointing any fingers, but asking a question). Usually money is involved. Sometimes human nature. Sometimes money and human nature. Why did Count Basie, Duke Ellington et al, eventually come upon hard times? They simply could not afford to keep a big band going. When you don't have something like money (or many other things of value) to act as a magnet, it's difficult to get people to commit their time -- unless there is something in it for THEM (and yes this could be something more intangible that money...I'll leave it to you to decide what I mean by this) The same is true with the state of affairs with symphonic orchestras, other types of ensembles, organizations, etc. which are folding so often these days. You must give people something in order to get them to come (whether musicians or audience). You must give them a reason to be there. >5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and develop a compositional language based on that knowledge? Again I would suggest looking to Ellington as a model. Make the maximum use of the forces that you have at your disposal (Is Paul Gonsalves able to play tonight? I'll write a special part for him...Wait, you mean I only have Johnny "Hodges? Well, lets do this instead..). Ephemeralization (see Buckminster Fuller). In other words, create the maximum with the minimum. Do more with less. Make the most of what you have. >6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices and results), or non-successfully? Honestly, I can't think of any. But then I don't know all of the local composers or their work. (Bonus points...define "composer"...) >7) What are the compositional tools available today other than traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, and Marco's system? There are as many compositional systems as there are composers. And I mean that most seriously. >8) How is writing for improvisers different than writing for musicians with more "traditional" musical skills? No different.....not at all. And I mean that most seriously. >9) What compositional tools can be developed when your group has both kinds of players? Any kind of compositional tool you can imagine that is appropriate for the particular set of circumstances you are facing at that particular time. >10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and thoughtful criticism that is so obviously focused on the evolution of this music? Because so many people are creationists? Too many people fear or don't understand the process of evolution. Let alone music. >11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for large ensemble shows? The grand canyon, my bathroom, and just about any other space if the moment is right. >12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles? The grand canyon, my bathroom, and just about any other space if it moment is right. ...OK, I will sum up by saying that as a lurker on this list, I see a good deal of carping about things like stuffed shirt musicians, composers, audiences, processes, etc., bitching about this and that. I also see a good deal of clique-i-ness, that erupts from time to time in various posts (don't ask me to explain. If you have to ask I will likely only piss you off). But in regards to music, I must say that I see much from posts here that seems to me nothing more than the most glossy form of window dressing-type knowledge, or often the inability to see the forest through the trees from many people (and no, I'm not talking about Phillip here, I am speaking generally). I realize I am opening up my asshole to a good reaming. But if this post annoys you, I might suggest reading my responses to PG's questions once again and thinking a little more deeply. Respectfully submitted, A. Lurker ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:36:12 -0800 From: "Phillip Greenlief" Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm To: "'Bay Area New Music Discussion Group'" Message-ID: <000001c75c38$df1667e0$4001a8c0 at PG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Damon Smith Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm - I have to admit I am really surprised that you (one the most intelligent people I know) of all people keep saying this. It has all the information you need: the pitches and the direction. The rest is up to the improvisor. The only Limitations are the improvisors imagination. the reason the other information is not given is because after it is established YOU provide that information. It is not through composed music, it is music for improvisors. It is meant to keep a harmonic thread through an improvisation. I mean, Cecil Made it up, and he is not a moron. You of all people should be able to play the shit out of this stuff. PG: I can play it - and I think I play it as well as anyone who isn't Marco. I understand the system perfectly. I will say it again: I entered this dialogue to raise some questions about the various processes involved when putting a large ensemble together. I'm interested in those questions and any possible solutions - that's why I started ImprovGarage. I keep hearing folks defending Marco's process. That's nice. What I have been hoping for all along is that this would open up into a dialogue about a variety of processes that deal with the problems of large ensemble music. I put one of my processes on the table for discussion. I was hoping other folks would do the same. I was hoping this wouldn't turn into an "us and them" conversation, as it so often does on this list. But hope as I may, the conversation inevitably becomes mired in allegiances to heroes and role models and the good old days. Fair enough: I appreciate George and John's comment on the value of hard work. Of course! the only solution to any question you could ever ask about any kind of music - you have to put in the time. I am comfortable with that solution; I've been doing the work for over 35 years now (but didn't start playing saxophone until 30 years ago). I have looked in many directions for solutions to the problems - not just music, but other artistic disciplines as well. Call me a "post-modern, lowercase musician with non-idiomatic concerns" if you want (I love you Ingle!). Just call me to play some music! I had this discussion with Steve Adams (who also knows a bit about writing for large ensemble) and he agrees with me completely. He was glad that I voiced my concerns with Marco. He also believes the system to be "inefficient", with regard to the time it takes to achieve the results it often achieves. But to hell with all of that! Here are the questions I want to address, if anyone is still awake: 1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for large ensemble? 2) How does a musician's time commitment affect those tools or results? 3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend rehearsing a composition? 4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay together over a long period of time? (the bay area is actually way ahead of many other scenes in this regard...it's unfair to point the finger at any of us - so just know I'm not pointing any fingers, but asking a question). 5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and develop a compositional language based on that knowledge? 6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices and results), or non-successfully? 7) What are the compositional tools available today other than traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, and Marco's system? 8) How is writing for improvisers different than writing for musicians with more "traditional" musical skills? 9) What compositional tools can be developed when your group has both kinds of players? 10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and thoughtful criticism that is so obviously focused on the evolution of this music? 11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for large ensemble shows? 12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles? From elsuperfantastico at yahoo.com Fri Mar 2 08:47:43 2007 From: elsuperfantastico at yahoo.com (Chris Broderick) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 08:47:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm/Phillip's questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <769583.48243.qm@web53607.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Henry wrote: > >11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for > large ensemble shows? > > The grand canyon, my bathroom, and just about any > other space if the moment is right. You must have quite a bathroom. You should rent it out as a rehearsal studio or install some bleachers & make a performance space... -Chris ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Mar 2 12:45:21 2007 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 12:45:21 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] 21G Cultural Product Sale & Screening 4/6 call for participation Message-ID: No longer hypothetical - 21 Grand will be hosting a second Cultural Product sale on Friday, April 6th between 7 and 10pm to coincide with the First Friday art walk thing. If you have records, cds, books, videos, gear, posters, etc. that you would like to sell, please let me know off-list. December's event was pretty successful. We have some tables but not enough for everyone. We'll also be doing something kinda special - instead of having a DJ, we will be screening videos of past performances of potential interest - 21 Grand has a by-no-means-complete archive of past shows, but most of this stuff hasn't been shown to anyone. If you or someone you know has video of 21 Grand shows that could be convinced to bring in their tapes or DVDs, we would love to show it (as well as make copies for our archives). We can work with: DVD, mini-DV, VHS, S-VHS, Hi-8 ... I doubt anyone has stuff on U-Matic 3/4" tape (we're not that old), but uh, we have the means to play that format. Sarah 21 Grand is a 501(c)3 non-profit multi-disciplinary arts space we have moved to 416 25th St. (at Broadway) Oakland, CA 94612 21grand at 21grand.org (510) 444-7263 From sopranino at sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 2 12:55:25 2007 From: sopranino at sbcglobal.net (Jon Raskin) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:55:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm Message-ID: <412926.55222.qm@web82401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Presently working and living here: Fred Frith, Gino Robair, Larry Ochs, Ben Goldberg, John Schott, Moe! Staiano, Graham Connah. I think Darren Johnston is heading in this direction as well. Marcus Shelby is doing it in the jazz world. A littel more difficult to ascertain but the Hub people were really dealing with group sound. > 5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and > develop a compositional language based on that knowledge? one has to assess the skills and/or weaknesses of the members the best one can and take it from there. > 6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that > knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices > and results), or non-successfully? From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Mar 2 13:06:27 2007 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:06:27 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: four drummers baaaad, two drummers good sorry ... while I did impose a moratorium on jokes related to the subject title, after two days I couldn't resist. sl > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:51:57 -0800 > From: weasel walter > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Message-ID: <20070227.225203.1456.41.weaselw at juno.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >> * Too loud for that room > > needed two less drummers and two less bass players. period. i know which > ones i'd pick too . . . > From slusser at pixar.com Fri Mar 2 13:37:22 2007 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:37:22 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <20070301.161817.3916.1.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070301.161817.3916.1.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <6AA59955-A227-449C-93A5-70DD6BFD6C26@pixar.com> On Mar 1, 2007, at 4:08 PM, weasel walter wrote: >> 1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for > large ensemble? > traditional notation. time based notation. graphic notation. > conduction/cuing. improvisation. i-ching, etc etc etc. i don't think > there's any real question of how to compose for large ensemble Besides the above, I've had some success with providing a narrative text, and assigning various ensemble members individual and group roles in the narrative. The "score" is both the text and the assignments. I also have many game pieces (independent from Mr. Zorn) that may be more process than composition, considering the results. A variant of my game pieces uses idiomatic flashcards (anyone remember my Time Tunnel piece?). > >> 2) How does a musician's time commitment affect those tools or >> results? > if we're using methods, the clarity of execution will be commensurate > with the familiarity of said methods. Succinctly put, WW. The presenting musician must be practical, and not unrealistically ambitious. We're lucky here that the pool is capable of taking on a good deal of complexity; still one must learn the "rehearsal time/complexity of ambition" ratio the hard way. With everyone having projects of their own, how much of a burden is it to ask great players to commit to working on your piddling or half-baked ideas for a show that may not draw? > 3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend rehearsing a > composition? > > as much as it needs to be done well! Succinctly put, WW. What's it worth to the ensemble volunteer? If the composer wants to nail it, they should pay the musicians and record it. >> 4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay together over a >> long period of time? > i believe that a lot of "key" players are too busy doing other > things. a > lot of improvisers i've met here don't like rehearsing or playing when > there isn't a gig. that, is problematic for anybody (like me) who > might > want to deal with composition in my improvisation. instead of worrying > about it, i try to make the best possible ad hoc situations for myself > and try to maintain recurring ensembles with the hope that those > groups > develop a voice by the nature of them being used repeatedly. Atrophy. Entropy. Gain/loss ratio for all involved. I am amazed that I'm still playing several times a month with 3 different long- running ensembles (2 for well over 20 years), but that there's no real interest in playing out (as in a gig). Cynicism. Age. Ambivalence. >> 5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and >> develop a compositional language based on that knowledge? > > one has to assess the skills and/or weaknesses of the members the best > one can and take it from there. Ellington. Mingus. When there's a lot of group knowlege/language/ understanding, the less composition the better, imho. When writing for these people, you just need the barest of set-ups; a suggestion, a nod or a wink. >> 6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that >> knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices >> and results), or non-successfully? > > i have been able to do this when i can get an ensemble together that > understands that it will have to rehearse. Go on, name names. I have satisfied myself a few times, but it was so long ago that no one is likely to remember. ("Blowjob", to name one.) >> 7) What are the compositional tools available today other than > traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, and Marco's system? I think this was covered in question 1 >> 8) How is writing for improvisers different than writing for >> musicians with more "traditional" musical skills? > > the challenge is to create something that allows everyone to do > what they > want to do and still sound good as a whole. You envision a setting rather than precisely notating each event. >> 9) What compositional tools can be developed when your group has >> both kinds of players? > > letting people do things that reflect their skills Hopefully the non-traditional players have some rudimentary understanding so you can use note names like Marco, and the traditional ones have some imagination where you can use graphics, texts and games. >> 10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and thoughtful >> criticism that is so obviously focused on the evolution of this >> music? > > i'm not. I don't think they're afraid. Maybe folks don't want to seem offensive or aggressive. Personally, I am ambivalent (Pisces) and don't think there's one proper way to do any of this, and am certainly not in an expert position to judge. I don't harbor strong opinions because they get in the way of my imagination and creativity. >> 11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for large ensemble > shows? > > something with moderately flat acoustics. horn players tend to like > some > reverberance, i've noted. Davies Hall > >> 12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles? > > uh . . . see Ted Brinkley's offer From weaselw at juno.com Fri Mar 2 13:45:50 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:45:50 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Animal Farm Message-ID: <20070302.134551.2324.18.weaselw@juno.com> > > i have been able to do this when i can get an ensemble together > that understands that it will have to rehearse. > > Go on, name names. the reason why i still play in rock bands is because there is generally an understanding of pooling energy and time in order to make an end result that goes what most light, ad hoc committments and produce. the only reason why the flying luttenbachers could make the music it did was because we rehearsed our asses off. the music was difficult enough that it couldn't be taken lightly and executed well. period. of course that has been the inevitable demise of almost every lineup - waaay too much work for too little feedback/recognition/money, etc. oh well. either one wants to do it or one doesn't. i do. onward . . . ww From slusser at pixar.com Sun Mar 4 13:22:49 2007 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:22:49 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] tasty In-Reply-To: <6AA59955-A227-449C-93A5-70DD6BFD6C26@pixar.com> References: <20070301.161817.3916.1.weaselw@juno.com> <6AA59955-A227-449C-93A5-70DD6BFD6C26@pixar.com> Message-ID: <8356F332-46B8-49A2-9380-1A0C51EAB492@pixar.com> tasty stuff on WKCR right now http://www.columbia.edu/cu/wkcr/ From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Mon Mar 5 09:57:33 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:57:33 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] All new MP3s on my myspace page Message-ID: <167ea52ab5301997e1a78b3c7f3208f3@balancepointacoustics.com> http://myspace.com/smithdamon Tracks from: 1. Untitled (1959) (new from the Jerusalem based Kadima label) Aurora Josephson voice Ariel Shibolet soprano saxophone Jen Baker trombone Damon Smith double bass Scott R. Looney piano 2. The Voice Imitators Frank Gratkowski - alto saxophone and clarinet Damon Smith double bass Jerome Jerome Bryerton pecussion And the first two BPA titles now OOP: 3. Mirrors - Broken, But No Dust Peter Kowald, Damon Smith double basses 4. The Sale Of Tickets For Money Was Abolished Tony Bevan bass saxophone Damon Smith double bass Scott R. Looney piano Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com Just released: bpa009 "sperrgut" birgit ulher/damon smith/martin blume bpa 010 "cruxes" aurora josephson/joelle leandre/damon smith/martin blume bpa 011 "sextesense" john butcher/aaron bennett/henry kaiser/danielle degruttola/damon smith/jerome bryerton From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Mon Mar 5 12:01:21 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 12:01:21 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Nicholas Isherwood Message-ID: <56dd2d99265d9a6172ea9e57a7744fee@balancepointacoustics.com> He is playing for free tonight at mills: http://bayimproviser.com/transbay_calendar.asp? summary=false&event_id=5969 He is bass singer specializing in contemporary works. The recordings I have of him are really great, doing the bass voice songs of Scelsi and in the Steve Lacy Double Sextet. It should be an incredible show. Damon From michaelz at zoka.com Mon Mar 5 15:21:36 2007 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 15:21:36 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Prix Ars Electronica 2007 - Extended Deadline Message-ID: ---begin forwarded text--- >Dear friends and participants of Prix Ars Electronica! > >Prix Ars Electronica 2007 is considering several >requests of artists and submitters and has >extended the deadline for the online >registration until March 16, 2007. > >NEW Submission Deadline: March 16, 2007 >Details about entering are available online only at http://prixars.aec.at/ > >The 21st Prix Ars Electronica 2007 - >International Competition for Cyberarts has a >few new features. The new Hybrid Art category, a >new prize for Media.Art.Research, and the >integration of Net Vision into Digital >Communities are the most visible signs of the >intensive work that is being done on the >definition of the competition?s categories. As >always, the aim is to continually keep the Prix >Ars Electronica updated in line with >leading-edge developments in the dynamic field >of cyberarts. > >Computeranimation / Film / VFX, Digital Musics, Interactive Art, Hybrid Art, >Digital Communities, u19 - freestyle competition, [the next idea] grant, >Media.Art.Research Award > >Contact >Jochen Zeirzer: nextidea at prixars.aec.at > >Your Prix Ars Electronica 2007 Team ---end forwarded text--- From sopranino at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 5 18:55:29 2007 From: sopranino at sbcglobal.net (Jon Raskin) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 18:55:29 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Masterpieces Or Fakes? The Joyce Hatto Scandal In-Reply-To: <45E7235A.5030509@gmail.com> References: <188009.1417.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001e01c75b6b$32139180$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> <45E7235A.5030509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004201c75f9a$e6ec0be0$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> What's paying a few royalties rights when you can put out an ideal version of a work? A critic could just release the version he wanted to hear. -----Original Message----- From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Barry Threw Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:03 AM To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Masterpieces Or Fakes? The Joyce Hatto Scandal Craig Stuart Sapp is the guy in London that developed the algorithm that figured this out. Evidently it is universal enough that any audio can be compared, effectively fingerprinting tracks. Copyrights will live with the audio if (when most likely) this becomes available. b Jon Raskin wrote: > What I find interesting about this "scandal" is that it seems like the > husband did a great job of creating a version of the pieces. His wife > didn't perform them or parts of them but concept employed, at least on > the ones he altered we greeted with admiration. It was a classical > form of mash up and something that is common place in the recording > process. How many edits and changes are done on a classical > recording? Perfection is altered takes and with a bit a stance change > it could have been present as piano repertoire by an engineer. The > new Scratch Perry of classical music. Enough of it has been recorded, start playing with the recordings. > > -----Original Message----- > From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu > [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of J. Segel > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 10:19 AM > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Masterpieces Or Fakes? The Joyce Hatto Scandal > > > --- newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote: >> I've talked to someone who worked with Frank Sinatra at one point, >> and evidently he would show up to the session, do a couple of takes, >> then go home, and I suppose in the older days they were probably good >> takes. In the later years, after he left, the label would barrage >> the studio with every recording of a needed song he ever made and >> they would paste in SYLLABLES to create a good performance, EQing and >> DSPing appropriately, all unbeknownst to Frank, but at LEAST it was >> from his own performances! > > > reminds me of that nashville engineer's joke, in re: comping and > fixing the singer's tracks in protools or whatever. > singer does two takes of the song. > engineer says "ok, that's fine, you can go home now." > singer says, "don't you want me to do it right?" > engineer drawls "...if you want it to take all night...." > > MAGNETIC -- Jonathan Segel PO Box 460816 S.F. CA. 94146-0816 > magsatellite at yahoo.com <---> jsegel at magneticmotorworks.com > http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ > ________ > It's here! Your new message! > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- barry threw composition : sound : programming http://www.barrythrew.com bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com 857-544-3967 Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the sensibility of men. - Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From sopranino at sbcglobal.net Mon Mar 5 19:07:31 2007 From: sopranino at sbcglobal.net (Jon Raskin) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 19:07:31 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm In-Reply-To: <000d01c75c3f$8477fea0$4001a8c0@PG> References: <54154be41105586d2f6a1b2fd4c22b2c@balancepointacoustics.com> <000d01c75c3f$8477fea0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: <004301c75f9c$9514e560$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> Speaking of the material, Rova was performing in Ulrichsburg this weekend and Alios described a solo concert by Cecil Taylor. Alois listened to Cecil practice for 6 hours in the space, working on all sorts of material. He said the concert was a distillation of the 6 hours in 60 mintues. -----Original Message----- From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:24 PM To: 'Bay Area New Music Discussion Group' Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Damon Smith Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm On Mar 1, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > He also believes the system > to be "inefficient", with regard to the time it takes to achieve the > results it often achieves. > - It is not anymore inefficient than free improvisation. Once you play the pitches and improvise the objective is met. What takes the most time is people looking for underlying information when there is none. Damon PG: OK! You've made your point, and it's a good point! There is no underlying information. Just use the material. It's simple. I agree with you. But I'm trying to move on to other aspects of this discussion...I posed some questions. We'll see if anyone takes the bait. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From grobair at emusician.com Tue Mar 6 10:06:23 2007 From: grobair at emusician.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:06:23 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Library of Congress: National Recording Registry Announced Message-ID: Some of you on the list will find this interesting (even if you've already heard about it or heard the NPR piece on it a few months ago): LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 101 Independence Avenue SE Washington DC 20540 Phone: (202) 707-2905 Fax: (202) 707-9199 RECORDINGS BY HISTORICAL FIGURES AND MUSICAL LEGENDS ADDED TO THE 2006 NATIONAL RECORDING REGISTRY Library of Congress Accepting Nominations for the 2007 Registry What do President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, legendary performer and songwriter Eubie Blake, Gershwin Prize-winning musician Paul Simon and The Rolling Stones have in common? Today, Librarian of Congress James H. Billington named sound recordings made by them and 21 others to the National Recording Registry to be preserved for all time. Under the terms of the National Recording Preservation Act of 2000, the Librarian is responsible for annually selecting recordings that are ?culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant? to be placed in the National Recording Registry. Recordings must be at least 10 years old. This brings the number of recordings named to the registry to 225. ?Selecting 25 recordings from our extraordinary rich and varied sonic history is a difficult task, but we take this charge seriously because it showcases the diverse beauty, humanity and artistry found in the nation?s sound heritage,? said the Librarian in announcing the registry selections. ?Our challenge and duty to history remain, however, finding collaborative and creative ways to preserve and make available this unmatched legacy for modern and future generations.? Nominations for the registry were gathered from members of the public, who submitted suggestions online and from the National Recording Preservation Board, which comprises leaders in the fields of music, recorded sound and preservation. The board also assisted the Librarian with the review of nominations. The Library is currently accepting nominations for the 2007 National Recording Registry at the National Recording Preservation Board Web site (www.loc.gov/nrpb/). The new additions to the registry, which span the years 1904-1986, honor a wide variety of outstanding spoken and musical recordings. Among the selections are Franklin D. Roosevelt?s legendary address to Congress after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor; civil rights milestones, including Pete Seeger?s 1963 Carnegie Hall concert and Sam Cooke?s beautifully haunting song lamenting the lack of racial progress; Paul Simon?s album ?Graceland,? which introduced the South African musical group Ladysmith Black Mambazo to the nation; the quintessential rock ?n ?roll classic by The Rolling Stones, ?(I Can?t Get No) Satisfaction?; and notable performances by a pantheon of significant artists, including Jelly Roll Morton, The Carter Family, Bob Marley, Artur Rubinstein, Cole Porter, Eubie Blake and Sarah Vaughan. On behalf of Congress and the National Recording Preservation Board, the Library of Congress is conducting a study on the state of audio preservation and will develop a comprehensive national recording preservation program, the first of its kind. The study, being done by Rob Bamberger, encompasses the current state of sound-recording archiving, preservation, restoration activities and access to those recordings by scholars and the public. It will be published later this year. The Library is identifying and preserving the best existing versions of the recordings on the registry. These efforts have received support from archives and record companies such as Sony BMG. The Library of Congress is the nation's oldest federal cultural institution and the world's largest library with more than 134 million items, which includes more than 2.8 million sound recordings. The Library's Recorded Sound Section holds the largest number of radio broadcasts in the United States ? more than 500,000. # # # NATIONAL RECORDING REGISTRY ANNOUNCED PR 07-39 3/6/07 ISSN 0731-352 2006 National Recording Registry (in chronological order) 1. ?Uncle Josh and the Insurance Agent,? Cal Stewart (1904) 2. ?Il mio tesoro,? John McCormack, orchestra conducted by Walter Rogers (1916) 3. National Defense Test, September 12, 1924 (1924) 4. ?Black Bottom Stomp,? Jelly Roll Morton?s Red Hot Peppers (1926) 5. ?Wildwood Flower,? The Carter Family (1928) 6. ?Pony Blues,? Charley Patton (1929) 7. ?You?re the Top,? Cole Porter (1934) 8. ?The Osage Bank Robbery,? episode of ?The Lone Ranger? (December 17, 1937) 9. Address to Congress, December 8, 1941, Franklin D. Roosevelt (1941) 10. Native Brazilian Music, recorded under the supervision of Leopold Stokowski (1942) 11. ?Peace in the Valley,? Red Foley and the Sunshine Boys (1951) 12. Chopin Polonaise, op. 40, no. 1 (?Polonaise militaire?), Artur Rubinstein (1952) 13. ?Blue Suede Shoes,? Carl Perkins (1955) 14. Interviews with William ?Billy? Bell, recorded by Edward D. Ives (1956), representing the Edward D. Ives Collection held at the Maine Folklife Center, University of Maine, Orono, Maine and the Archives of Traditional Music at Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana 15. ?Howl,? Allen Ginsberg (1959) 16. ?The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart,? Bob Newhart (1960) 17. ?Be My Baby,? The Ronettes (1963) 18. ?We Shall Overcome,? Pete Seeger (1963) recording of Pete Seeger's June 8, 1963, Carnegie Hall concert 19. ?(I Can?t Get No) Satisfaction,? Rolling Stones. (1965) 20. ?A Change is Gonna Come,? Sam Cooke (1965) 21. ?Velvet Underground and Nico,? Velvet Underground (1967) 22. ?The Eighty-Six Years of Eubie Blake,? Eubie Blake (1969) 23. ?The Wailers Burnin?,? The Wailers (1973) 24. ?Live in Japan,? Sarah Vaughan (1973) 25. ?Graceland,? Paul Simon (1986) 2006 National Recording Registry (in chronological order) 1. ?Uncle Josh and the Insurance Agent,? Cal Stewart (1904) Cal Stewart was among the most prolific and popular recording artists of the first 20 years of commercial recording. His ?Uncle Josh? monologues offer humorous commentary on American life at the turn of the 20th century, reflecting major themes and fashions of the time. His ?rural comedy? describes life in the imaginary New England village of Pumpkin Center, painting humorous pictures of Uncle Josh?s encounters with new technologies, and comic contrasts between agrarian and urban life in America. Stewart?s influence can be heard in the comedy of Will Rogers, in Fred Allen?s character, Titus Moody, and in Garrison Keillor?s stories about Lake Wobegon. ?Uncle Josh and the Insurance Company? is especially notable as the first recording of the humorous folk tale and urban legend ?Barrel of Bricks.? 2. ?Il mio tesoro,? John McCormack; orchestra conducted by Walter Rogers (1916) Tenor John McCormack?s recording of ?Il mio tesoro? from ?Don Giovanni? is considered a model of Mozart performance. His rich voice, seamless phrasing and superb technical skill contribute to making this reading the standard by which other performances of this aria have been measured. 3. National Defense Test, September 12, 1924 (1924) Before national radio networks existed, a group of stations cooperated to test how radio stations might respond to a national emergency and help the nation during a crisis. This recording is notable as one of only a handful of extant recorded radio broadcasts from early radio in the United States. It is technologically significant as an experiment of real-time switching between stations in 14 cities. It features conversations between General John J. Pershing and other Army generals stationed in different cities. 4. ?Black Bottom Stomp,? Jelly Roll Morton?s Red Hot Peppers (1926) ?Black Bottom Stomp? is a masterly example of Ferdinand ?Jelly Roll? Morton?s creative talents as a composer, arranger and pianist. Moreover, it is an authentic representation of the New Orleans jazz tradition, which relied strongly on an ensemble polyphony where the frontline instruments of trumpet, clarinet and trombone played simultaneous but complementary themes. ?Black Bottom Stomp? has more than one theme or ?strain,? a carryover from ragtime. Arranged with harmonized passages, breaks and solos, and a changing balance between the instrumentalists, Morton fashioned a unique, continuous whole. 5. ?Wildwood Flower,? The Carter Family (1928) ?Wildwood Flower? showcases Maybelle Carter?s trademark guitar technique, in which she plays melody on the bass strings with her thumb and strums rhythm on the treble strings. The Carter Family?s close harmony singing, picking style and popularization of folk tunes, as well as other song genres, formed the foundation of modern country music and continues to significantly influence musicians today. 6. ?Pony Blues,? Charley Patton (1929) This is the signature recording of Charley Patton, one of the first and finest blues musicians to come out of the Mississippi Delta region. ?Pony Blues? showcases Patton?s characteristic trademarks: powerful vocals, heavily accented guitar rhythms and unusual vocal phrasing. Patton was an enormous influence on his contemporaries and future blues performers, notably Howlin? Wolf, Bukka White and Big Joe Williams. 7. ?You?re the Top,? Cole Porter (1934) ?You?re the Top? is a work of composer/lyricist Cole Porter at the top of his form. Seamlessly, the words and music of this quintessential ?list song? convey wit, exuberance, and charming high and low culture references. This solo performance invites the listener to become part of Porter?s universe and imagine the composer performing much as he might have for his friends on a luxury cruise ship or in his Waldorf Astoria suite. 8. ?The Osage Bank Robbery,? episode of ?The Lone Ranger? (December 17, 1937) This broadcast, titled "The Osage Bank Robbery," is the earliest known recording of this popular series to surface. It features a pair of brothers who rob a bank, hide out in an abandoned mine, and are eventually discovered and brought to justice by the Lone Ranger. The series had been on the air since early 1933 and its popularity was already enormous. In fact, the show reversed the failing finances of Detroit station WXYZ, and, when WXYZ banded with several other stations to form the Mutual Broadcasting System in 1934, the show proved central to the success of the network as a whole. 9. Address to Congress, December 8, 1941, Franklin D. Roosevelt (1941) "Yesterday, December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy, the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan." The day after the assault on Pearl Harbor, President Franklin D. Roosevelt addressed a joint session of Congress asking for a Declaration of War against Japan, marking the entry of the United States into World War II. The president?s voice, strong and confident, yet familiar and reassuring, rallied the American public and helped to prepare them for the sacrifices that lay ahead. 10. Native Brazilian Music, recorded under the supervision of Leopold Stokowski (1942) Leopold Stokowski and his All-American Youth Orchestra performed in Rio de Janeiro as part of a goodwill tour to South America in the summer of 1940. Prior to his visit to Brazil, Stokowkski asked composer Heitor Villa-Lobos to help him collect and record popular Brazilian music, of which the conductor was a great admirer. Villa-Lobos assembled an elite group of musicians, including Pixinguinha, Donga, Cartola, Jararaca, Ratinho and Jos? Espinguela. Forty recordings were made onboard the ship carrying Stokowski and the orchestra. Seventeen of the recordings, embracing musical styles such as sambas, batucadas, macumba and emboladas, were released in 1942 by Columbia Records on a 78-rpm album, ?Native Brazilian Music.? 11. ?Peace in the Valley,? Red Foley and the Sunshine Boys (1951) ?Peace in the Valley? was originally written in 1939 by Thomas A. Dorsey for Mahalia Jackson, but as performed by Red Foley and the Sunshine Boys, it becomes an affecting expression of devotion in the southern gospel music style. At the time of this recording, Clyde Julian ?Red? Foley was a recording star for Decca Records and host of the half-hour NBC network segment of the ?Grand Ole Opry.? This blending of Foley's calm baritone with the close harmony of the vocal quartet resulted in the first gospel recording to sell one million copies. 12. Chopin Polonaise, op. 40, no. 1 (?Polonaise militaire?), Artur Rubinstein (1952) The names of Artur Rubinstein and Frederic Chopin are inextricably linked in the minds of at least two generations of 20th-century music lovers. At the heart of the bond between pianist and composer is their shared Polish heritage, and nowhere is the connection so great as in Rubinstein?s interpretation of the Polonaise in A Major, Op. 40, No. 1, known as the ?Military Polonaise.? Rubinstein supplied the iconic reading of this revered, often-recorded work. The combination of strength and heart-felt poetry is a hallmark of Rubinstein?s playing in this piece, and it stirred the souls of patriots?of all nationalities?during the German occupation of Poland. 13. ?Blue Suede Shoes,? Carl Perkins (1955) Carl Perkins was one of the pioneers of rockabilly, the up-tempo fusion of country-western music and rhythm and blues. His aggressive vocal stylizations, backed by electric lead guitar, slapping string bass and drums, were of immediate appeal to the burgeoning teenage population of the mid-1950s. Due to an extended recovery from a serious car crash, Perkins never gained the popularity of his contemporary Elvis Presley, yet this first-generation rocker?s driving style maintains its rebellious allure more than 50 years after its creation. 14. Interviews with William ?Billy? Bell, recorded by Edward D. Ives (1956), representing the Edward D. Ives Collection held at the Maine Folklife Center, University of Maine, Orono, Maine, and the Archives of Traditional Music at Indiana University, Bloomington, Ind. Folklorist Edward D. ?Sandy? Ives, author of ?The Tape-Recorded Interview? and many other influential publications, met with 75-year-old Billy Bell in 1956 and discovered the northwoods singing style. These occupational songs of lumbering, driving and woods traditions, based on British broadside ballads, were sung by second-generation Canadian-Irish workers who originally came from New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island or Nova Scotia farms and were part of the Maine lumbering workforce. Ives? initial interview with Bell was his first encounter with these narrative songs and singing styles that illuminated a tradition extending from Maine to Minnesota and Newfoundland to northern Ontario. 15. ?Howl,? Allen Ginsberg (1959) ?Howl,? Ginsberg?s most famous poem, was an experiment in the invention of a new style of poetry, one based not on ?little short-line patterns,? but one using ?the formal organization of the long line? and employing vivid visual impressions and chaotic phrasing to be delivered in one long breath. Particularly effective were Ginsberg?s relatively unemotional delivery of the passionate language and the frequent anger of a literary work that describes the history of the Beat Generation as well as his personal history, filled with anti-establishment rage. When ?Howl? was first published in 1956, it was banned for obscenity and became a celebrated legal case among defenders of the First Amendment. Ginsberg appears on this recording at a 1959 Chicago ?Big Table? reading presented by the Shaw Society in Chicago, Ill. 16. ?The Button-Down Mind of Bob Newhart,? Bob Newhart (1960) Bob Newhart introduced his fresh, new style of deceptively satiric comedy to audiences with this recording in 1960. ?The Button-Down Mind? is the first collection of Newhart?s subtle, archly understated, humorous monologues that often represent a one-sided dialog with an unheard partner delivered in his characteristically deadpan style. His humor focuses on an average guy trying to hold on to his composure under some of the most unusual predicaments imaginable. Like Jack Benny, Newhart uses significant pauses to achieve heightened humorous effects. This recording contains his comedy classic, ?The Driving Instructor,? where he shines in a one-sided monologue as the instructor of the most dangerous and inept driving student ever to get behind the wheel of a car. 17. ?Be My Baby,? The Ronettes (1963) This single is often cited as the quintessence of the ?girl group? aesthetic of the early 1960s and is also one of the best examples of producer Phil Spector?s ?wall of sound? style. Opening with Hal Blaine?s infectious and much imitated drumbeat, distinctive features of the song, all carefully organized by Spector, include castanets, a horn section, strings and the able vocals of Veronica (Ronnie) Bennett. Enhancing the already symphonic quality of the recording is Spector?s signature use of reverb. 18. ?We Shall Overcome,? Pete Seeger (1963) Pete Seeger's Carnegie Hall concert on June 8, 1963, was the culmination of his recent tour on behalf of civil rights. A hallmark of these concerts was his performance of "We Shall Overcome." First sung as a gospel song, "I Shall Overcome," and later used on labor picket lines, Seeger changed the opening word from "I" to "We," enlisting the song in support of the Civil Rights Movement. Seeger and many other musicians of the 1960s hoped that music would be a strong force in the struggle to eliminate injustice and heal divisions in our country. This live recording of his concert captures not only Seeger's masterful performance, but also the communal spirit of the folk revival movement. 19. ?(I Can?t Get No) Satisfaction,? Rolling Stones (1965) Initially released as a single in the United States, ?Satisfaction? also appeared on the Rolling Stones? 1965 album, ?Out of Our Heads.? Guitarist Keith Richards claims to have woken up in the middle of the night with the famous fuzz-laden guitar riff in his head and immediately committed it to tape. Although he was ambivalent about the riff, he nonetheless presented it to vocalist Mick Jagger, who penned the song?s anti-commercial lyrics. Despite both Richards? and Jagger?s feelings that the song should not be released, the other members of the Rolling Stones voted to release the song, which became a classic of rock ?n? roll. 20. ?A Change is Gonna Come,? Sam Cooke (1965) Sam Cooke, a central figure in the creation of soul music in the 1950s and 1960s, composed ?A Change is Gonna Come? to express his impatience with the progress of civil equality in the United States. He wrote the song on a bus after speaking to sit-in protestors in Durham, N.C. Released after his untimely death, the song became an anthem of the civil rights movement in the United States. 21. ?Velvet Underground and Nico,? Velvet Underground (1967) For decades this album has cast a huge shadow over nearly every sub-variety of avant-garde rock, from 1970s art-rock to No Wave, New Wave and Punk. Referring to their sway over the rock music of the ?70s and ?80s, critic Lester Bangs stated, ?Modern music starts with the Velvets, and the implications and influence of what they did seem to go on forever.? Otherworldly vocals by the international model and actress Nico appear on three of the songs. John Cale?s hard-edged electric viola playing adds an eerie quality to singer and guitarist Lou Reed?s frank lyrical depictions of sex and addiction. Percussionist Maureen Tucker and guitarist Sterling Morrison make additional noteworthy contributions. 22. ?The Eighty-Six Years of Eubie Blake,? Eubie Blake (1969) This two-LP set introduced ragtime composer, performer and songwriter Eubie Blake to a new generation of listeners. The recorded musical autobiography featured his ragtime compositions from the early years of the 20th century and his musical theater pieces of the 1920s. In the recording, Blake is reunited with his partner of the 1920s, Noble Sissle. The recording captures the full range of Blake?s genius, his ebullient music and his infectious personality, and documents his enduring contributions to jazz and musical theater. 23. ?Burnin?,? The Wailers (1973) This 1973 release was the last album Reggae master Bob Marley released under the name ?The Wailers? and featured the final performances of Peter Tosh and Bunny Wailer with the group. While the group was rhythmically tight, Marley's role on this album is predominant. The album covers a variety of topics and moods from the militancy of ?Get Up Stand Up? and ?I Shot the Sheriff" to the heartfelt rage and poverty-induced despair of ?Burnin? and Lootin.? The final track, the traditional ?Rastaman Chant? sounds a more redemptive note. These themes continued in Marley's work after he left the earlier Wailers lineup and became an internationally acclaimed artist. 24. ?Live in Japan,? Sarah Vaughan (1973) Captivating performances by singer-composer-writer Sarah Vaughan, who Gunther Schuller once called ?the greatest vocal artist of our century,? are preserved in this two-LP set. The 1973 recording is an excellent example of Sarah Vaughan?s range of talents: her stunning virtuosity, glorious instrument, heartfelt interpretations, and ease of performing before a live audience. It features several signature tunes that are associated with Vaughan, including ?Summertime? and ?Poor Butterfly.? ?Live in Japan? was produced relatively late in Vaughan?s career and illustrates that, unlike most singers, Vaughan?s voice seemed to grow richer, stronger and more versatile as she aged. 25. ?Graceland,? Paul Simon (1986) In ?Graceland,? Paul Simon not only incorporated a great number of musical styles, including Zydeco, Tex-Mex and African vocal music, but he also showcased the talents of many accomplished musicians. The recording features Linda Ronstadt, Adrian Belew, Los Lobos, the Everly Brothers and Youssou N?dour. It is probably best known for Simon?s collaboration with the South African vocal group Ladysmith Black Mambazo. ?Graceland? fueled that group?s rise to international fame. Paul Simon was recently awarded the first annual Gershwin Prize for Popular Song by the Library of Congress. From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net Tue Mar 6 11:08:49 2007 From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:08:49 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Enhanced CD ? References: <188009.1417.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><001e01c75b6b$32139180$6401a8c0@HP28718835617><45E7235A.5030509@gmail.com> <004201c75f9a$e6ec0be0$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> Message-ID: <000a01c76022$e2263da0$6601a8c0@MARIE> I have a nice collection of shadow photos from The Ghost In The House CD cover session that animate very nicely when I monitor them on the camera. I thought of putting this animation with some music on the CD. I often see CDs that say "Enhanced CD" that include a photo gallery etc. Can anyone help with this? Is it possible and where to begin? Thanks, David From cypod25 at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 14:09:36 2007 From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 14:09:36 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Enhanced CD ? In-Reply-To: <000a01c76022$e2263da0$6601a8c0@MARIE> References: <188009.1417.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <001e01c75b6b$32139180$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> <45E7235A.5030509@gmail.com> <004201c75f9a$e6ec0be0$6401a8c0@HP28718835617> <000a01c76022$e2263da0$6601a8c0@MARIE> Message-ID: <473c28030703061409o6a97cb27o630ee6cb48caab38@mail.gmail.com> I used to burn a lot of enhanced-cd's basically you have to burn the audio first, but don't finalize the disc. Then burn a cd-rom on the rest of the space and finalized. depending on what platform, there are tricks you can use to get the cd-rom content to showup when the disc is incerted into a computer, but play the audio when put into a traditional cd player. Alternatively you could just do a dvd with the slide show as your source of images, or put the video online. On 3/6/07, dmichalak wrote: > I have a nice collection of shadow photos from The Ghost In The House CD > cover session that animate very nicely when I monitor them on the camera. I > thought of putting this animation with some music on the CD. I often see > CDs that say "Enhanced CD" that include a photo gallery etc. Can anyone help > with this? Is it possible and where to begin? > Thanks, > David > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- B~ www.cypod.co.nr From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue Mar 6 18:28:18 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 18:28:18 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: weasel walter/damon smith related free jazz shows this week! Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: weasel walter > Date: March 6, 2007 6:02:42 PM PST > To: weaselw at juno.com > Subject: weasel walter related free jazz shows this week! > > Wednesday march 7, 2007 - 9:00 PM > the knockout > 3223 mission (at valencia) > san francisco, CA > ? > old time relijun > tussle > weasel walter quartet (gruntfest, hunt, smith, walter) > ? > ww quartet opens at 9:30 sharp > ? > --------------------------------------------------- > > Thursday, Mar 8 2007 - 8:00 PM > 1510 8th St Performance Space > 1510 8th Street > oakland, CA > http://www.bayimproviser.com/venuedetail.asp?venue_id=39 > > Evander Music & 1510 Performance Space Presents > An Evening of Music with > > One Trio > Phillip Greenlief - saxophones > Henry Kaiser - guitars > Weasel Walter - percussion > > Another Trio > Scott R. Looney - piano > Randy McKean - saxophone > Damon Smith - bass > Cost : $6-10 > ? > --------------------------------------------------- > Friday March 9, 2007 -?9:00pm > ?21 Grand (416 25th St @ Broadway) > Oakland, CA > http://www.21grand.org > > * FLAMING HORSE (Jacob Felix Heule - drums, Tony Dryer - bass & Alwyn > Quebido ? guitar) > * CELLULAR CHAOS (Weasel Walter (guitar), Damon Smith (ergo bass), > Mark Miller (drums) & William Winant (drums) > * MARANA JOCUND (Rob Pumpelly - drums & Wally Scharold ? guitar) > ? > =============================================== > nowave.pair.com > ? > ? From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Wed Mar 7 11:25:28 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:25:28 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Nicholas Isherwood In-Reply-To: <56dd2d99265d9a6172ea9e57a7744fee@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <56dd2d99265d9a6172ea9e57a7744fee@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: I saw him both at Mills and Stanford. It was pretty much the best thing I can remember seeing. He dedicated the first night to Cathy Berberian and did a lot of pieces associated with her including the Sequenza plus Scelsi and Bussotti bass voice pieces. It was great. the next night he did this Kagel piece: http://nicholasisherwood.free.fr/kagel_EN.html Which was just incredible to see live. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon Just released: bpa009 "sperrgut" birgit ulher/damon smith/martin blume bpa 010 "cruxes" aurora josephson/joelle leandre/damon smith/martin blume bpa 011 "sextesense" john butcher/aaron bennett/henry kaiser/danielle degruttola/damon smith/jerome bryerton From grobair at emusician.com Thu Mar 8 15:27:15 2007 From: grobair at emusician.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:27:15 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Dame Hilda Tablet anyone? Message-ID: Anyone on the list familiar with Dame Hilda Tablet the fictitious 12-tone "composeress" and inventor of "musique concr?te renforc?e." She came up in conversation today, and I wondered if anyone here was familiar with this character. (Fred would know, but he's not on the list these days, I believe...). g From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 15:31:43 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:31:43 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Tom Nunn in today's Chron Message-ID: Yay! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/08/NSGOJN8PNU1.DTL From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Mar 8 19:11:55 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:11:55 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Tom Nunn in today's Chron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c761f8$b1d812e0$4001a8c0@PG> ----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Matt Davignon Subject: [NewMusic] Tom Nunn in today's Chron Yay! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/08/NSGOJN8PNU1. DTL PG: For as interesting as those instruments are, the writer did very little to tell us about them, which is too bad. It was nice to see Tom get some ink though - he's been doing this for so long and hasn't celebrated all that much around here. It's also nice he's getting to go to Australia. Those instruments though - the reader couldn't know less about what they look or sound like from the article...correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't the writer imagine the audience wanted to know something about these experimental home-made instruments? A variety of verbiage could have helped: percussion-based (how many people do you think read it and imagined string instruments or wind-blown instruments?), some of them use contact microphones that trigger electronically-processed signals, they unique tunings; the player stands while playing them, all manner of metallic objects are driven into a board and struck with various mallets, some of them look like their names, etc.). From jfheule at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 19:42:28 2007 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 19:42:28 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Tom Nunn in today's Chron In-Reply-To: <000001c761f8$b1d812e0$4001a8c0@PG> References: <000001c761f8$b1d812e0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860703081942o383c9c68wc2165feb0ad1c59c@mail.gmail.com> You can judge the inanity from the subtitle: "Inventor left academia to pursue a career in experimental music. He's crafted a variety of odd instruments, and now has gigs and a CD." "Music" writers rarely write about music (actually, this doesn't even claim to be about music - it's "nightlife"). Usually they just write about hype and bullshit. Since there isn't even any hype surrounding Tom Nunn, this guy just wrote a bunch of boring historical facts relating to other musicians nobody knows about (present company excluded). I guess it's easier to copy this shit down from some one's bio than to listen to a disc or actually go to a show, think about it a little bit and write something relevant. I'll put my money where my mouth is. Not that this is exemplary writing or anything. But name dropping is kept to a minimum. Brought to the forefront is discussion of music & musicians' afflictions, obscure references and inside jokes. If nothing else, it's really long. A bunch of memories of recent shows: Stopped by the Knockout last night and caught the last 10 minutes of the Weasel Walter Trio. Sounded just like them. Gruntfest on alto sax playing a lot wailing altissimo shit, as usual. I think he's my favorite of the rotating saxophonists that play with the group, but even he has a strong tendency to play notes (listen to Ettrick to hear my preferred alternate approach). I came in pretty late and these guys were pretty much soaked in sweat. Some shit had gone down. They told me the end was the best part, but I would have appreciated it more had I seen the build-up. Damon showed me his oozing poison oak welts but said they didn't affect his playing. Check them out Friday night when Weasel Walter's Cellular Chaos plays with Flaming Horse at 21 Grand. Tuesday at 21 Grand I saw the Gowns. Their new album, Red State, is pretty fucking great. I think it's probably my most listened-to album of 2007. Pushed Willie Nelson right off the charts. Anyway, it was really cool to see those songs performed live. I enjoyed the addition of live drums spanning the range from scraping and rattling to awkward polyrhythms to hard rocking. One or two songs weren't as dense as the album, but I think that was due to equipment/PA trouble. I'm trying to think of a highlight and all that comes to mind is the intro of one of the songs where Erika played a guitar line, then her looping pedal played it backwards, in which form it fit even better with the rest of the music. They're about to go on tour, so go hear them if you live somewhere other than the Bay Area, and buy their album wherever you may be. Marnie Stern sounded like a poorly mixed indie rock CD being played too loudly. In fact, that's what it was. Barr was indie rock too... I can't get into that stuff, but evidently a lot of people can. 21 Grand was packed, and it was a damn Tuesday night. Had to leave before Old Time Relijun started, but I heard a second or two of good throat singing in their sound check. Sergio Iglesias & the 69 Beers, Sunday at the Knockout, was complete stupidity, as usual. I can't say objectively whether it was funny or not. My bootleg recording sounds like a big mess, which I think we can be certain it was. Lots of booing. Noise Pancakes, earlier that day. All of the sets were pretty middle-of-the-road. Pretty palatable brunch music, but nothing mind-blowing. Horseflesh had a nice drone guitar thing going. Hora Flora had a bunch of speakers laying on objects with vibrations controlled by a sampler. The best sound was a sheet of paper on a little subwoofer. It seemed a little half-baked, but it was already miles ahead ahead of his G3 performance from a month or so ago. Interesting ideas with shaky realization. I'm thinking that this shit might really gel in about 6 months as sampler button pushing because less frantic and more controlled, and knowledge of acoustic properties of resonating objects is solidified. Co(sine) was harsh table pedal noise. Reminded me of some other guy I saw play at ArtSF, but I think that was a night noise. Lots of twisted faces and weird postures. I guess a lot of guys do this, though. I think someone shouted out "Will Ferrell!" at the end of his set. Brizbomb had a weird mad scientist set-up. 6-foot tall rack of gear ? space echoes and such. White lab coat, smoke machine, flashing DJ lights. A little corny, but maybe it would have looked less screwy in a darkened room rather than broad daylight. Elise Baldwin laptop stuff. I don't really remember what she did, but I kind of liked it. Maybe my favorite set of the day, but then why don't I remember anything other than the caricature of her that adorned her name tag? Compound Saturday night. Wow. Big bass tones from Damion Romero shook the fuck out of that room. Speakers were literally falling over and the poor sound guy had to quick draft people to hold the room together. If the "predicted" earthquake really did try to strike, Damion counteracted it, and sent it right back to the earth's core. About half the sounds (probably every sound above 200 Hz) were generated by parts of the room shaking. I'm not sure if I would've liked the clean version better, but the Compound is a pretty nice-sounding building to shake if you're gonna be shaking a building. It might have even sounded better outside. I caught a little bit of the sound check from out there. John Wiese had a brutal white noise attack. Kept me interested for 20 minutes, or whatever it was, but I have trouble describing it. Man, my ears didn't want to hear any more after that set. There was a suitably (probably overly) long intermission and the two played duo as Waves. They pretty much did the same thing as their respective solo sets, Damion covering the low end, and John on the high end white noise. Maybe it was the power of suggestion, but John really seemed to be going for more of a new age ocean sound this time ? white noise wave swells. Really great. He dropped out for the last 6 minutes or so while Damion rode out some really fantastic bass tones. I think this was the sound he was trying to discover all night. 16 Bitch Pile-Up on Friday was good. Kind of like a reunion, but it really hasn't been all that long since their last show. They took it a lot of different places, from quiet solo trumpet to full-on walls of noise. That was a long time ago at this point, so don't expect any more talk. They too have a new album which you should listen to. Or just buy the poster and hang it up over your bed. One more show brings me all the way back to last Thursday. My first time seeing Costes. It seemed really stupid at first. Some French people doing mildly transgressive things while shouting unintelligibly in French to a pre-recorded sound track with lots of dancey tracks. Somehow it maintained my interest for the whole show. Perhaps the escalation of transgressions was perfectly paced. Can't really say I liked it, but I kept an eye on the freak show the whole time. Had to take cover when the fake poo started flying. A nice blob ended up high up on 21 Grand's wall. Before that was Mr. Natural with that SAXOPHONIST WHO PLAYED ON FUN HOUSE guy. Harsh noise with weird sax, I think. I don't think I was into it too much. Omnivorous Sinsillium had their dual analog modular weeding out session. This was the first time it ever made any sense to me, but still I think those guys are on a different wavelength. I liked some of it, then I couldn't figure it out. That almost seems like a good thing ? like maybe I'll learn to love it in 3 years. That's optimism, though. Ill hits from Count Loach all night long. Any DJ who wears a cape is okay by me. The outstanding set of the night was Core of the Coalman. Different approach than usual. The majority of the set was a massive viola drone ? brutal and melancholy, sentimental and cathartic. Just what I wanted to be hearing. Echoed two days later by the massive walls erected the Compound. Ended up in something like a pedal noise fury. I was still riding high from the drone, so I don't really know much about that part. The merciless schedule of shows I want to hear and am obligated to play at continues this week. Never had this problem in Wisconsin. It's a bit like how the Amish kids always end up hooked on crack during Rumspringa (see Devil's Playground [2002]... actually, I just told you the only thing worth gleaning from that movie). From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 8 20:56:40 2007 From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:56:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewMusic] Tom Nunn in today's Chron In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860703081942o383c9c68wc2165feb0ad1c59c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497394.22532.qm@web58713.mail.re1.yahoo.com> You should work for the Chronicle since you seem to blow everyone away with your smart, perspective and thought-out writing. We could use more good writers such as yourself in these weeklies. -M! jacob felix heule wrote: You can judge the inanity from the subtitle: "Inventor left academia to pursue a career in experimental music. He's crafted a variety of odd instruments, and now has gigs and a CD." "Music" writers rarely write about music (actually, this doesn't even claim to be about music - it's "nightlife"). Usually they just write about hype and bullshit. Since there isn't even any hype surrounding Tom Nunn, this guy just wrote a bunch of boring historical facts relating to other musicians nobody knows about (present company excluded). I guess it's easier to copy this shit down from some one's bio than to listen to a disc or actually go to a show, think about it a little bit and write something relevant. I'll put my money where my mouth is. Not that this is exemplary writing or anything. But name dropping is kept to a minimum. Brought to the forefront is discussion of music & musicians' afflictions, obscure references and inside jokes. If nothing else, it's really long. A bunch of memories of recent shows: Stopped by the Knockout last night and caught the last 10 minutes of the Weasel Walter Trio. Sounded just like them. Gruntfest on alto sax playing a lot wailing altissimo shit, as usual. I think he's my favorite of the rotating saxophonists that play with the group, but even he has a strong tendency to play notes (listen to Ettrick to hear my preferred alternate approach). I came in pretty late and these guys were pretty much soaked in sweat. Some shit had gone down. They told me the end was the best part, but I would have appreciated it more had I seen the build-up. Damon showed me his oozing poison oak welts but said they didn't affect his playing. Check them out Friday night when Weasel Walter's Cellular Chaos plays with Flaming Horse at 21 Grand. Tuesday at 21 Grand I saw the Gowns. Their new album, Red State, is pretty fucking great. I think it's probably my most listened-to album of 2007. Pushed Willie Nelson right off the charts. Anyway, it was really cool to see those songs performed live. I enjoyed the addition of live drums spanning the range from scraping and rattling to awkward polyrhythms to hard rocking. One or two songs weren't as dense as the album, but I think that was due to equipment/PA trouble. I'm trying to think of a highlight and all that comes to mind is the intro of one of the songs where Erika played a guitar line, then her looping pedal played it backwards, in which form it fit even better with the rest of the music. They're about to go on tour, so go hear them if you live somewhere other than the Bay Area, and buy their album wherever you may be. Marnie Stern sounded like a poorly mixed indie rock CD being played too loudly. In fact, that's what it was. Barr was indie rock too... I can't get into that stuff, but evidently a lot of people can. 21 Grand was packed, and it was a damn Tuesday night. Had to leave before Old Time Relijun started, but I heard a second or two of good throat singing in their sound check. Sergio Iglesias & the 69 Beers, Sunday at the Knockout, was complete stupidity, as usual. I can't say objectively whether it was funny or not. My bootleg recording sounds like a big mess, which I think we can be certain it was. Lots of booing. Noise Pancakes, earlier that day. All of the sets were pretty middle-of-the-road. Pretty palatable brunch music, but nothing mind-blowing. Horseflesh had a nice drone guitar thing going. Hora Flora had a bunch of speakers laying on objects with vibrations controlled by a sampler. The best sound was a sheet of paper on a little subwoofer. It seemed a little half-baked, but it was already miles ahead ahead of his G3 performance from a month or so ago. Interesting ideas with shaky realization. I'm thinking that this shit might really gel in about 6 months as sampler button pushing because less frantic and more controlled, and knowledge of acoustic properties of resonating objects is solidified. Co(sine) was harsh table pedal noise. Reminded me of some other guy I saw play at ArtSF, but I think that was a night noise. Lots of twisted faces and weird postures. I guess a lot of guys do this, though. I think someone shouted out "Will Ferrell!" at the end of his set. Brizbomb had a weird mad scientist set-up. 6-foot tall rack of gear ? space echoes and such. White lab coat, smoke machine, flashing DJ lights. A little corny, but maybe it would have looked less screwy in a darkened room rather than broad daylight. Elise Baldwin laptop stuff. I don't really remember what she did, but I kind of liked it. Maybe my favorite set of the day, but then why don't I remember anything other than the caricature of her that adorned her name tag? Compound Saturday night. Wow. Big bass tones from Damion Romero shook the fuck out of that room. Speakers were literally falling over and the poor sound guy had to quick draft people to hold the room together. If the "predicted" earthquake really did try to strike, Damion counteracted it, and sent it right back to the earth's core. About half the sounds (probably every sound above 200 Hz) were generated by parts of the room shaking. I'm not sure if I would've liked the clean version better, but the Compound is a pretty nice-sounding building to shake if you're gonna be shaking a building. It might have even sounded better outside. I caught a little bit of the sound check from out there. John Wiese had a brutal white noise attack. Kept me interested for 20 minutes, or whatever it was, but I have trouble describing it. Man, my ears didn't want to hear any more after that set. There was a suitably (probably overly) long intermission and the two played duo as Waves. They pretty much did the same thing as their respective solo sets, Damion covering the low end, and John on the high end white noise. Maybe it was the power of suggestion, but John really seemed to be going for more of a new age ocean sound this time ? white noise wave swells. Really great. He dropped out for the last 6 minutes or so while Damion rode out some really fantastic bass tones. I think this was the sound he was trying to discover all night. 16 Bitch Pile-Up on Friday was good. Kind of like a reunion, but it really hasn't been all that long since their last show. They took it a lot of different places, from quiet solo trumpet to full-on walls of noise. That was a long time ago at this point, so don't expect any more talk. They too have a new album which you should listen to. Or just buy the poster and hang it up over your bed. One more show brings me all the way back to last Thursday. My first time seeing Costes. It seemed really stupid at first. Some French people doing mildly transgressive things while shouting unintelligibly in French to a pre-recorded sound track with lots of dancey tracks. Somehow it maintained my interest for the whole show. Perhaps the escalation of transgressions was perfectly paced. Can't really say I liked it, but I kept an eye on the freak show the whole time. Had to take cover when the fake poo started flying. A nice blob ended up high up on 21 Grand's wall. Before that was Mr. Natural with that SAXOPHONIST WHO PLAYED ON FUN HOUSE guy. Harsh noise with weird sax, I think. I don't think I was into it too much. Omnivorous Sinsillium had their dual analog modular weeding out session. This was the first time it ever made any sense to me, but still I think those guys are on a different wavelength. I liked some of it, then I couldn't figure it out. That almost seems like a good thing ? like maybe I'll learn to love it in 3 years. That's optimism, though. Ill hits from Count Loach all night long. Any DJ who wears a cape is okay by me. The outstanding set of the night was Core of the Coalman. Different approach than usual. The majority of the set was a massive viola drone ? brutal and melancholy, sentimental and cathartic. Just what I wanted to be hearing. Echoed two days later by the massive walls erected the Compound. Ended up in something like a pedal noise fury. I was still riding high from the drone, so I don't really know much about that part. The merciless schedule of shows I want to hear and am obligated to play at continues this week. Never had this problem in Wisconsin. It's a bit like how the Amish kids always end up hooked on crack during Rumspringa (see Devil's Playground [2002]... actually, I just told you the only thing worth gleaning from that movie). _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. From aurorarising at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 21:23:35 2007 From: aurorarising at hotmail.com (~ Aurora ~) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 21:23:35 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] February Pictures, new camera Message-ID: February 25th, 2007 Marco Eneidi Jungle Orchestra http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/02.25.07.htm February 20th, 2007 Marco Eneidi & Weasel Walter Quartet http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/02.20.07.htm February 17th, 2007 Dresser/Ochs/Tarasov http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/02.17.07.htm February 14th, 2007 Gowns http://www.aurorarising.com/Events/02.14.07.htm From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 21:50:16 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 21:50:16 -0800 Subject: [NewMusic] Tom Nunn in today's Chron In-Reply-To: <000001c761f8$b1d812e0$4001a8c0@PG> References: <000001c761f8$b1d812e0$4001a8c0@PG> Message-ID: Well, I've learned that us new music people (myself included) are rarely going to be happy with what's written about new music in the 'muggle' press. I'm much happier to point at the pictures of folks I know in the paper, and be glad they're getting the attention. See? We're not such outcasts! On 3/8/07, Philli