[NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm

[Phillip Greenlief]

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Damon Smith
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Marco Eneidi's Animal Farm

- I have to admit I am really surprised that you (one the most 
intelligent people I know) of all people keep saying this. It has all 
the information you need: the pitches and the direction.
The rest is up to the improvisor. The only Limitations are the 
improvisors imagination. the reason the other information is not given 
is because after it is established YOU provide that information.
It is not through composed music, it is music for improvisors. It is 
meant to keep a harmonic thread through an improvisation. I mean, Cecil 
Made it up, and he is not a moron.
You of all people should be able to play the shit out of this stuff.


PG:
I can play it - and I think I play it as well as anyone who isn't Marco.
I understand the system perfectly. I will say it again: I entered this
dialogue to raise some questions about the various processes involved
when putting a large ensemble together. I'm interested in those
questions and any possible solutions - that's why I started
ImprovGarage.

I keep hearing folks defending Marco's process. That's nice. What I have
been hoping for all along is that this would open up into a dialogue
about a variety of processes that deal with the problems of large
ensemble music. I put one of my processes on the table for discussion. I
was hoping other folks would do the same. I was hoping this wouldn't
turn into an "us and them" conversation, as it so often does on this
list. 

But hope as I may, the conversation inevitably becomes mired in
allegiances to heroes and role models and the good old days. Fair
enough: I appreciate George and John's comment on the value of hard
work. Of course! = There's nothing that can replace it. Perhaps that's
the only solution to any question you could ever ask about any kind of
music - you have to put in the time. I am comfortable with that
solution; I've been doing the work for over 35 years now (but didn't
start playing saxophone until 30 years ago). I have looked in many
directions for solutions to the problems - not just music, but other
artistic disciplines as well. Call me a "post-modern, lowercase musician
with non-idiomatic concerns" if you want (I love you Ingle!). Just call
me to play some music!

I had this discussion with Steve Adams (who also knows a bit about
writing for large ensemble) and he agrees with me completely. He was
glad that I voiced my concerns with Marco. He also believes the system
to be "inefficient", with regard to the time it takes to achieve the
results it often achieves.

But to hell with all of that! Here are the questions I want to address,
if anyone is still awake:

1) What are the various compositional tools we have for writing for
large ensemble?
2) How does a musician's time commitment affect those tools or results?
3) What is a reasonable amount of time to spend rehearsing a
composition?
4) Why don't we see more large ensembles that stay together over a long
period of time? (the bay area is actually way ahead of many other scenes
in this regard...it's unfair to point the finger at any of us - so just
know I'm not pointing any fingers, but asking a question).
5) How does a musician take what s/he knows about a group and develop a
compositional language based on that knowledge?
6) Who are some of the local composers that have dealt with that
knowledge successfully (in terms of both composition styles/practices
and results), or non-successfully?
7) What are the compositional tools available today other than
traditional notation, graphic scores, text scores, and Marco's system?
8) How is writing for improvisers different than writing for musicians
with more "traditional" musical skills?
9) What compositional tools can be developed when your group has both
kinds of players?
10) Why are people so afraid of constructive and thoughtful criticism
that is so obviously focused on the evolution of this music?
11) What performance spaces are ideally suited for large ensemble shows?
12) What rehearsal spaces are ideally suited for large ensembles?