From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 07:53:04 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
Message-ID: <221151.4374.qm@web55611.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I didn't dig deep enough into this site and I used to have this LP before it was liberated one day.  It was a nexus point to be sure for improvisation with many threads. One that hasn't been acknowledge that much was is that Charles Moffett and family with Butch Morris, Glenn Spearman and David Murray.    There wasn't lot of cross connection going on but Butch Morris used to come to early improv workshops at the Blue Dolphin on 17th street circa 1974
 
Jon Raskin



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:35:45 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu

A more historic recording, with similar but more fleshed out liner  
notes is the Ghost Opera Company:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu9

It's a really interesting recording, more in tune with some of the  
things that are happening on this scene than Game/No Game. It's  
really amazing to think that SF Conservatory had improvisation as a  
required course in 1970. . . Also interesting to listen to the "free  
improv" of that time, and hear what has changed and what hasn't: the  
Ghost Opera stuff is gestural and pitch based, so interest in timbre  
is not that apparent. But the gestural stuff is actually pretty  
similar to a lot of things I've heard recently. I think it's an  
important, though not so well known,  piece of Bay Area history, and  
Mathieu's methods for getting musicians to interact is highly  
developed and valuable.

mg


On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Jon Raskin wrote:

> Some interesting history and thoughts from the liner notes of a duo  
> record
> of W.A. Mathier and George Marsh.
>
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu7
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 09:03:42 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:03:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Roscoe
Message-ID: <13318.26474.qm@web55615.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

>From Larry Och's

I just saw Amiri Baraka ?read?  at UC Berkeley last night. I put ?read? in parenthesis because it was more than reading... And More than inspiring; absolutely ?the shit;? something that can?t be described, only experienced first hand. no: not U-Tube either... So: I highly recommend that YOU go to see him and Roscoe in San Francisco next Thursday. If I was in town that night, I?d be there even if I had to cancel my own gig. It?s at the Victoria Theater. I?m not a member of that list of musicians? discussions, but if you would like to post this on that site so some people who SHOULD be there do go, that is fine by me. The fire still burns inside Mr. Baraka. He?s going to inspire Roscoe too. It will be a special event.
 
Jon Raskin

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Nov  1 09:05:25 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:05:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
In-Reply-To: <221151.4374.qm@web55611.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <221151.4374.qm@web55611.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <58CBA611-0C7F-4396-B593-9DF47FD067A7@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Nov 1, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:

> I didn't dig deep enough into this site and I used to have this LP  
> before it was liberated one day.

Yeah, the original LP was cool (mine got "liberated" too). It was  
funded by someone, maybe even Thomas Buckner? So they didn't charge  
for it, they just gave it out. It even had something that said to  
pass the album on to someone else, so "Let's keep music free."  This  
new CD has some things on it the LP didn't have, though. Of course,  
the CD ain't free. . . times have changed.

mg

> It was a nexus point to be sure for improvisation with many  
> threads. One that hasn't been acknowledge that much was is that  
> Charles Moffett and family with Butch Morris, Glenn Spearman and  
> David Murray.    There wasn't lot of cross connection going on but  
> Butch Morris used to come to early improv workshops at the Blue  
> Dolphin on 17th street circa 1974
>
> Jon Raskin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:35:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
>
> A more historic recording, with similar but more fleshed out liner
> notes is the Ghost Opera Company:
>
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu9
>
> It's a really interesting recording, more in tune with some of the
> things that are happening on this scene than Game/No Game. It's
> really amazing to think that SF Conservatory had improvisation as a
> required course in 1970. . . Also interesting to listen to the "free
> improv" of that time, and hear what has changed and what hasn't: the
> Ghost Opera stuff is gestural and pitch based, so interest in timbre
> is not that apparent. But the gestural stuff is actually pretty
> similar to a lot of things I've heard recently. I think it's an
> important, though not so well known,  piece of Bay Area history, and
> Mathieu's methods for getting musicians to interact is highly
> developed and valuable.
>
> mg
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Jon Raskin wrote:
>
>> Some interesting history and thoughts from the liner notes of a duo
>> record
>> of W.A. Mathier and George Marsh.
>>
>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu7
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com




From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 09:19:14 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
Message-ID: <59742.36533.qm@web55613.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I listened to some of the duet with George and W.A. at the site and they are using the language games to create the music.  The vocabulary is much more consonant and "safe" and the connecton between the jazz form and free form having similiar "problems".  The form doesn't mean that the music is vital or interesting by itself.

Jon Raskin



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 9:05:25 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu

On Nov 1, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:

> I didn't dig deep enough into this site and I used to have this LP  
> before it was liberated one day.

Yeah, the original LP was cool (mine got "liberated" too). It was  
funded by someone, maybe even Thomas Buckner? So they didn't charge  
for it, they just gave it out. It even had something that said to  
pass the album on to someone else, so "Let's keep music free."  This  
new CD has some things on it the LP didn't have, though. Of course,  
the CD ain't free. . . times have changed.

mg

> It was a nexus point to be sure for improvisation with many  
> threads. One that hasn't been acknowledge that much was is that  
> Charles Moffett and family with Butch Morris, Glenn Spearman and  
> David Murray.    There wasn't lot of cross connection going on but  
> Butch Morris used to come to early improv workshops at the Blue  
> Dolphin on 17th street circa 1974
>
> Jon Raskin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:35:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
>
> A more historic recording, with similar but more fleshed out liner
> notes is the Ghost Opera Company:
>
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu9
>
> It's a really interesting recording, more in tune with some of the
> things that are happening on this scene than Game/No Game. It's
> really amazing to think that SF Conservatory had improvisation as a
> required course in 1970. . . Also interesting to listen to the "free
> improv" of that time, and hear what has changed and what hasn't: the
> Ghost Opera stuff is gestural and pitch based, so interest in timbre
> is not that apparent. But the gestural stuff is actually pretty
> similar to a lot of things I've heard recently. I think it's an
> important, though not so well known,  piece of Bay Area history, and
> Mathieu's methods for getting musicians to interact is highly
> developed and valuable.
>
> mg
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Jon Raskin wrote:
>
>> Some interesting history and thoughts from the liner notes of a duo
>> record
>> of W.A. Mathier and George Marsh.
>>
>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu7
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Nov  1 10:42:38 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:42:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
In-Reply-To: <59742.36533.qm@web55613.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <59742.36533.qm@web55613.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D0AC3DC4-DF44-4BF8-ACF6-F249B09A2D8C@matthewgoodheart.com>

I've heard the recording several times, and I'd agree with you,  
although I'd use the term "aesthetic" rather than form; the aesthetic  
intent follows Mathieu's change since the early 70's, which seems to  
focus on a certain "spirituality" which might be perceived as "new  
age," though certainly far more sophisticated and technically complex  
than what one would normally associate with that term. Knowing what  
little I do about the aesthetics of folks on this list, I think that  
Game/No Game would not be greeted well, but that Ghost Opera could be  
of interest in some quarters. Also, GO involves a greater number of  
people, so it's interesting to hear how the games play out in that  
more complex scenario.

mg

On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:

> I listened to some of the duet with George and W.A. at the site and  
> they are using the language games to create the music.  The  
> vocabulary is much more consonant and "safe" and the connecton  
> between the jazz form and free form having similiar "problems".   
> The form doesn't mean that the music is vital or interesting by  
> itself.
>
> Jon Raskin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 9:05:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
>
> On Nov 1, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:
>
>> I didn't dig deep enough into this site and I used to have this LP
>> before it was liberated one day.
>
> Yeah, the original LP was cool (mine got "liberated" too). It was
> funded by someone, maybe even Thomas Buckner? So they didn't charge
> for it, they just gave it out. It even had something that said to
> pass the album on to someone else, so "Let's keep music free."  This
> new CD has some things on it the LP didn't have, though. Of course,
> the CD ain't free. . . times have changed.
>
> mg
>
>> It was a nexus point to be sure for improvisation with many
>> threads. One that hasn't been acknowledge that much was is that
>> Charles Moffett and family with Butch Morris, Glenn Spearman and
>> David Murray.    There wasn't lot of cross connection going on but
>> Butch Morris used to come to early improv workshops at the Blue
>> Dolphin on 17th street circa 1974
>>
>> Jon Raskin
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:35:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
>>
>> A more historic recording, with similar but more fleshed out liner
>> notes is the Ghost Opera Company:
>>
>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu9
>>
>> It's a really interesting recording, more in tune with some of the
>> things that are happening on this scene than Game/No Game. It's
>> really amazing to think that SF Conservatory had improvisation as a
>> required course in 1970. . . Also interesting to listen to the "free
>> improv" of that time, and hear what has changed and what hasn't: the
>> Ghost Opera stuff is gestural and pitch based, so interest in timbre
>> is not that apparent. But the gestural stuff is actually pretty
>> similar to a lot of things I've heard recently. I think it's an
>> important, though not so well known,  piece of Bay Area history, and
>> Mathieu's methods for getting musicians to interact is highly
>> developed and valuable.
>>
>> mg
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Jon Raskin wrote:
>>
>>> Some interesting history and thoughts from the liner notes of a duo
>>> record
>>> of W.A. Mathier and George Marsh.
>>>
>>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu7
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Matthew Goodheart
>> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
>> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
>> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com




From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 11:38:39 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
Message-ID: <348394.9467.qm@web55605.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I really meant form though as opposed to aesthetic.  There is a place where there is form in improvisation and the games are at that line area which is formed by the boundries of the individual interaction.
Free Jazz, Free improvisation was move away from an over used form but rules have evolved and the language has mutated.
 
Jon Raskin



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 10:42:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu

I've heard the recording several times, and I'd agree with you,  
although I'd use the term "aesthetic" rather than form; the aesthetic  
intent follows Mathieu's change since the early 70's, which seems to  
focus on a certain "spirituality" which might be perceived as "new  
age," though certainly far more sophisticated and technically complex  
than what one would normally associate with that term. Knowing what  
little I do about the aesthetics of folks on this list, I think that  
Game/No Game would not be greeted well, but that Ghost Opera could be  
of interest in some quarters. Also, GO involves a greater number of  
people, so it's interesting to hear how the games play out in that  
more complex scenario.

mg

On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:

> I listened to some of the duet with George and W.A. at the site and  
> they are using the language games to create the music.  The  
> vocabulary is much more consonant and "safe" and the connecton  
> between the jazz form and free form having similiar "problems".  
> The form doesn't mean that the music is vital or interesting by  
> itself.
>
> Jon Raskin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 9:05:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
>
> On Nov 1, 2007, at 7:53 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:
>
>> I didn't dig deep enough into this site and I used to have this LP
>> before it was liberated one day.
>
> Yeah, the original LP was cool (mine got "liberated" too). It was
> funded by someone, maybe even Thomas Buckner? So they didn't charge
> for it, they just gave it out. It even had something that said to
> pass the album on to someone else, so "Let's keep music free."  This
> new CD has some things on it the LP didn't have, though. Of course,
> the CD ain't free. . . times have changed.
>
> mg
>
>> It was a nexus point to be sure for improvisation with many
>> threads. One that hasn't been acknowledge that much was is that
>> Charles Moffett and family with Butch Morris, Glenn Spearman and
>> David Murray.    There wasn't lot of cross connection going on but
>> Butch Morris used to come to early improv workshops at the Blue
>> Dolphin on 17th street circa 1974
>>
>> Jon Raskin
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:35:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
>>
>> A more historic recording, with similar but more fleshed out liner
>> notes is the Ghost Opera Company:
>>
>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu9
>>
>> It's a really interesting recording, more in tune with some of the
>> things that are happening on this scene than Game/No Game. It's
>> really amazing to think that SF Conservatory had improvisation as a
>> required course in 1970. . . Also interesting to listen to the "free
>> improv" of that time, and hear what has changed and what hasn't: the
>> Ghost Opera stuff is gestural and pitch based, so interest in timbre
>> is not that apparent. But the gestural stuff is actually pretty
>> similar to a lot of things I've heard recently. I think it's an
>> important, though not so well known,  piece of Bay Area history, and
>> Mathieu's methods for getting musicians to interact is highly
>> developed and valuable.
>>
>> mg
>>
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:55 PM, Jon Raskin wrote:
>>
>>> Some interesting history and thoughts from the liner notes of a duo
>>> record
>>> of W.A. Mathier and George Marsh.
>>>
>>> http://cdbaby.com/cd/wamathieu7
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Matthew Goodheart
>> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
>> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
>> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 15:12:25 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 200 years before Ives
Message-ID: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I was listening to some music by Heinrich Ignaz Franz
von Biber (a composer I'm not really familiar with,
but I was checking out some of the sources from which
Nyman ripped material for those early Greenaway
scores) and I'm listening to his "Battalia a 10" from
1693, and the second movement pops up and is 47
seconds of total dischord, chaos, pantonality, cross
meters, etc.  I don't quite believe what I am hearing,
so I have to replay it, and sure enough, that's what
it is.  So I check out the liner notes:

"The second movement, Die liederlich Gesellschaft von
allerley Humor, ("The dissolute company with all types
of humor")...simultaneously combines eight popular
songs...[with] different metrical structures and
different tonalities"

Biber notes "here it is dissonant everywhere, for thus
are the drunks accustomed to bellow with different
songs".

Precursor to Ives from 1693?

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  1 16:09:55 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 200 years before Ives
In-Reply-To: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <473240.28047.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Precursor to Ives from 1693?

going to have to chekc that out.....

lance


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Nov  1 16:59:03 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:59:03 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 200 years before Ives
In-Reply-To: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <03F307B2-E4C6-491C-B17D-E8C84BB5F7E5@balancepointacoustics.com>

He was really something. Barry Guy and his wife Maya perform his work  
a lot. He also used to prepare the double bass with parchment and  
have it played col lengo to imitate a snare drum.
On Nov 1, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> I was listening to some music by Heinrich Ignaz Franz
> von Biber (a composer I'm not really familiar with,
> but I was checking out some of the sources from which
> Nyman ripped material for those early Greenaway
> scores) and I'm listening to his "Battalia a 10" from
> 1693, and the second movement pops up and is 47
> seconds of total dischord, chaos, pantonality, cross
> meters, etc.  I don't quite believe what I am hearing,
> so I have to replay it, and sure enough, that's what
> it is.  So I check out the liner notes:
>
> "The second movement, Die liederlich Gesellschaft von
> allerley Humor, ("The dissolute company with all types
> of humor")...simultaneously combines eight popular
> songs...[with] different metrical structures and
> different tonalities"
>
> Biber notes "here it is dissonant everywhere, for thus
> are the drunks accustomed to bellow with different
> songs".
>
> Precursor to Ives from 1693?
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From charity.chan at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 17:09:27 2007
From: charity.chan at gmail.com (Charity Chan)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:09:27 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 200 years before Ives
In-Reply-To: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <604AF864-2B6A-495C-BAC6-4EA9329929A8@gmail.com>

is this the il giardino armonico recording of him?

thnx
c

On 1 nov. 07, at 15:12, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> I was listening to some music by Heinrich Ignaz Franz
> von Biber (a composer I'm not really familiar with,
> but I was checking out some of the sources from which
> Nyman ripped material for those early Greenaway
> scores) and I'm listening to his "Battalia a 10" from
> 1693, and the second movement pops up and is 47
> seconds of total dischord, chaos, pantonality, cross
> meters, etc.  I don't quite believe what I am hearing,
> so I have to replay it, and sure enough, that's what
> it is.  So I check out the liner notes:
>
> "The second movement, Die liederlich Gesellschaft von
> allerley Humor, ("The dissolute company with all types
> of humor")...simultaneously combines eight popular
> songs...[with] different metrical structures and
> different tonalities"
>
> Biber notes "here it is dissonant everywhere, for thus
> are the drunks accustomed to bellow with different
> songs".
>
> Precursor to Ives from 1693?
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

-
Graduate Student Initiatives Program Coordinator
Music Improvisation Ensemble Assistant
Contemporary Performance Ensemble Assistant
Mills College
-
http://www.charitychan.com





From phil at philipgelb.com  Thu Nov  1 17:47:20 2007
From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 200 years before Ives
In-Reply-To: <03F307B2-E4C6-491C-B17D-E8C84BB5F7E5@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <724439.10553.qm@web83706.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

When i was in graduate school, my roomate at the time,
Matthew Sperry came home with some LPs of Biber and
was all excited about the way the bass was prepared on
this "old" music. It was the first time i became
familiar with Biber's music and have been a fan since.

--- Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
wrote:

> He was really something. Barry Guy and his wife Maya
> perform his work  
> a lot. He also used to prepare the double bass with
> parchment and  
> have it played col lengo to imitate a snare drum.
> On Nov 1, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> 
> > I was listening to some music by Heinrich Ignaz
> Franz
> > von Biber (a composer I'm not really familiar
> with,
> > but I was checking out some of the sources from
> which
> > Nyman ripped material for those early Greenaway
> > scores) and I'm listening to his "Battalia a 10"
> from
> > 1693, and the second movement pops up and is 47
> > seconds of total dischord, chaos, pantonality,
> cross
> > meters, etc.  I don't quite believe what I am
> hearing,
> > so I have to replay it, and sure enough, that's
> what
> > it is.  So I check out the liner notes:
> >
> > "The second movement, Die liederlich Gesellschaft
> von
> > allerley Humor, ("The dissolute company with all
> types
> > of humor")...simultaneously combines eight popular
> > songs...[with] different metrical structures and
> > different tonalities"
> >
> > Biber notes "here it is dissonant everywhere, for
> thus
> > are the drunks accustomed to bellow with different
> > songs".
> >
> > Precursor to Ives from 1693?
> >
> > Jacob Lindsay
> >
>
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> Damon Smith
> 
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> New solo project:
> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  2 07:16:37 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Paul Raven - R.I.P.
Message-ID: <281342.95840.qm@web58715.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I was shocked to find out this morning about former Killing Joke bassist Paul Raven had passed away from a heart attack. It happened about two weeks ago, I'm surprised I found out about it now. Bummer.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003661390

-M!

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Nov  2 07:36:46 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 07:36:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review
In-Reply-To: <604AF864-2B6A-495C-BAC6-4EA9329929A8@gmail.com>
References: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<604AF864-2B6A-495C-BAC6-4EA9329929A8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5AEDC460-F4F6-49EA-94E3-4D36301FDD9A@matthewgoodheart.com>

Salon.com has a review of a new book by Alex Ross about "contemporary  
composers" called "The Rest Is Noise."  Has anyone read the book?

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/11/02/alex_ross/

I perused through the letters, which are generally what one would  
expect.  One sentence I was rather fond of:

". . . it's hardly the kind of music you want to have playing in the  
background while you're doing the dishes -- though I encourage you to  
try it anyway, because it will really change the way you feel about  
dishes."

Also of note was a letter from Rupert C. who posted a link to what is  
apparently a Klingon playing a Theramin

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1WlvegSSPQ

mg

From Henry.Kuntz at ceb.ucop.edu  Fri Nov  2 08:19:45 2007
From: Henry.Kuntz at ceb.ucop.edu (Henry Kuntz)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:19:45 -0700 
Subject: [NewMusic] Don Ayler has passed away
Message-ID: <34EC3AC09ED2D24288CDD6BB1A348511066E2EEC@exchange.ceb.ucop.edu>

>From  <http://www.ayler.org> http://www.ayler.org ("What's New?")
 
Don Ayler (October 5, 1942 - October 21, 2007)
 
November 1, 2007
Richard Koloda emailed me on Monday with the sad news of the death of Donald
Ayler. The funeral was held on Tuesday and Richard kindly sent this report:

"Don Ayler suffered a sudden heart attack on Sunday October 21st, and passed
away very quickly at the home he had been in, in Northfield Ohio. Because of
the suddenness of the death, an autopsy was done. I had found out on October
29th, when my friend Imam Shaheed called me at work. 

The funeral was held at 11 am on October 30th. It was a sunny day, and
moderately warm at 62 degrees. Don was buried in Section 27, lot 200, Grave
3. He was buried next to his mother (his brother is buried in the miltary
section). The hearse from Nesbitt Funeral Home arrived, as did the few
mourners. I met his cousins Claytene Wright, Sandra Wright, and Robert
Johnson. His father was present, as was his niece Desiree and his nephew,
Curtis Roundtree. Among the friends (besides myself), were his two
guardians, a Ms. Formica, and a young man named Jude. The other friends
present were Joe Phillips' brother, Imam Mutawef Shaheed, Robert Taylor (a
Cleveland discjockey), Carrie Roundtree, and Al Rollins.

The coffin was lifted from the hearse by the pallbearers; myself, Imam
Shaheed, Al Rollins, Bob Taylor, the funeral director, and I believe the
other pall bearer was Robert Johnson, or Mr. Phillips. The coffin and its
contents were quite light during the short walk to the plot. A Reverend
Girney read a brief passage from Romans, along with the standard, 'it was
his time according to God's will'. The funeral director opened the casket at
the head one final time, and moved the cloth covering Don's face. We filed
past one final time paiyng our respects. Don looked at peace. He was wearing
a gray sweater and dark pants. We silently said a final prayer, and the
funeral director placed the cloth back over his face and closed the coffin.
We said our final prayers, each of us placing a red rose over the coffin. We
watched it lowered into the grave, and the lid placed over the vault. We
departed taking our memories of a fun guy."


From slusser at pixar.com  Fri Nov  2 11:44:13 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:44:13 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review
In-Reply-To: <5AEDC460-F4F6-49EA-94E3-4D36301FDD9A@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <882027.42869.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<604AF864-2B6A-495C-BAC6-4EA9329929A8@gmail.com>
	<5AEDC460-F4F6-49EA-94E3-4D36301FDD9A@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <40937574-044D-4E97-B926-2AFB1492C096@pixar.com>

I heard the author on public radio (yes, I'm in that demographic)
and  the book sounded a bit introductory for the hardcore
intellectuals on the list.  Still, I'm going to look for it as a cure
for my insomnia.  He didn't seem patronizing, and It may fill
some of the gaps in my knowledge.

The Klingon playing the Theremin was awful once he started
singing.  Of note, though, was the coiled pitch antenna.  This
guy didn't do much with pitch, but I have experimented with
this on one of mine.  I use malleable copper wire, and have
configured a couple sharp curves.  Moving the hand vertically
gives you a fixed pitch set (because of the varying distances).
Horizontal proximity modulates this pitch set higher and lower.
"Normal" play is still possible by staying in one vertical position.


On Nov 2, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

> Salon.com has a review of a new book by Alex Ross about "contemporary
> composers" called "The Rest Is Noise."  Has anyone read the book?
>
> http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/11/02/alex_ross/
>
> I perused through the letters, which are generally what one would
> expect.  One sentence I was rather fond of:
>
> ". . . it's hardly the kind of music you want to have playing in the
> background while you're doing the dishes -- though I encourage you to
> try it anyway, because it will really change the way you feel about
> dishes."
>
> Also of note was a letter from Rupert C. who posted a link to what is
> apparently a Klingon playing a Theramin
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1WlvegSSPQ
>
> mg
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Sat Nov  3 01:46:02 2007
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 01:46:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADE9@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>


NPR demographics (why bother?) and Klingon Thereminists (ugh) aside, I will only issue this small warning regarding "The Rest is Noise." 

Alex Ross seems to frequently speak from his ass. Please don't take anything his ass says for granted. Do some fact checking on your own.

Quite often, what comes from his ass makes me want to commit Gannicide.

For someone with some major media establishment entities and (assumedly) a few fact-checkers behind him, he is often very loose with the facts, not only regarding music history, but...well, music in general.

Here is a relatively recent example, from a piece dated June 25th, 2007 that appeared in the New Yorker:

"On the Internet, the landscape of American orchestral life is visible as never before. Almost all professional orchestras have their own Web sites, where you can study schedules, listen to MP3s, admire pictures of the executive director with donors, and read cute bios of the players. (The oboist bungee-jumps; ergo, musicians are human beings, not alien geeks.) Wandering around this virtual map, you can see signs that America?s orchestras are vacillating between vague optimism and raw panic. In some cases, straight-up classical works are perilously rare; concertos of Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky huddle among prepackaged pops programs like ?Barbie at the Symphony? (an edutainment event backed by Mattel) and ?The Music of Barbra Streisand? (Babs not included). Nearly as often, you stumble on happy surprises. Who would have guessed that the Redwood Symphony, a volunteer orchestra in the Silicon Valley area, has played all of Mahler?s symphonies? That the South Dakota Symphony has featured eight Pulitzer Prize-winning works this season? Or that the Rochester Philharmonic just recorded, on the Harmonia Mundi label, one of the snappiest Gershwin disks in years?"

So, all that poop about the "progressive" programming and happy surprises aside (how many concerts/how much programming by regional orchestras have you atended/been impressed with lately? Does American orchestra life really seem more "visible" to you these days?).....Alex Ross wrote:

>>"The South Dakota Symphony has featured eight Pulitzer Prize-winning works this season"


If you take a moment of your time and actually go to the web site of the South Dakota Symphony:

http://www.sdsymphony.org/20062007Season/ImperialSeries/index.cfm

You will find that for their 2006-2007 season:

George Crumb indeed won a Pulitzer in 1968, but not for "A Haunted Landscape."

Apparently they performed Yehudi Wyner's Piano Concerto, "Ciavi in Mano", which was the 2006 winner.

And Christopher Rouse did win a Pulitzer for his Trombone Concerto. 


...So, lets see....uh, that makes exactly *two* Pulitzer-winning works for "this season."  Three Pulitzer-winning composers, two Pulitzer-winning works.


Well, you say....perhaps he meant more than just "this season?"...i.e including 2005-6? Again:

http://www.sdsymphony.org/20052006Season/Index.cfm


Steven Stucky did indeed win a Pulitzer for his Second Concerto for Orchestra

The work of Zwillich they performed (Trumpet Cto) is not a Pulitzer prize winner, although she did win a Pulitzer for her First Symphony.

The South Dakota Symphony site lists Rochberg's Oboe Concerto as winning the prize in 1972. This is not true. He's never won a Pulitzer (!!!) Jacob Druckman won the prize in 1972, for "Windows."

....So for 2005-6 they performed exactly *one* Pulitzer-winning work. Two Pulitzer-winning composers.

Check the winners here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize_for_Music


That makes exactly four works that won Pulitzers, split across their last two seasons. And Five Pulitzer-winning composers programmed during their past two seasons, in total.  Not "eight Pulitzer-winning works" featured "this season." 


It is this sort of thing that bothers me greatly about Mr. Ross. Just spew, and if it fits his meme, it must be true. No facts are necessary. Like the pervasive myth of the 12-tone "orthodoxy" entrenched in their "ivory towers" suppressing the work of the neo-tonalists of the 60s, 70s and 80s, that he (and many others, Mr. Gannicide included) likes to carp upon so regularly. Puhleeese. Do some fact checking....will ya, Alex? Just look at the composition faculties at the major music conservatories/universities during the period in question. You'll find a lot of names like William Schumann, David Diamond, etc., but aside from Milton Babbitt at Princeton (and Donald Martino...and maybe Ralph Shapey at University of Chicago -- although I would not consider U of C to be a major music school), you'll be hard pressed to find many serial composers at any of the major music schools, not to mention the minor ones, where there were even more more tonal/neo-tonalists in residence. Again...do the research, will ya Alex? Hell, even Schoenberg didn't teach serial composition to students at UCLA. He taught TONAL harmony, counterpoint and form. "Orthodoxy" my ass.

I agree, he certainly doesn't sound patronizing, and is rather fluffy (perfect for NPR but not for the so-called hardcore folks) but hey, that's part of the problem, IMHO. It makes it much more easy for him to disseminate misinformation. Much like certain Fox Nooze pundits.

Standard disclaimer.

-MH

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:44:13 -0700
From: David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Book Review
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <40937574-044D-4E97-B926-2AFB1492C096 at pixar.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

I heard the author on public radio (yes, I'm in that demographic)
and  the book sounded a bit introductory for the hardcore
intellectuals on the list.  Still, I'm going to look for it as a cure
for my insomnia.  He didn't seem patronizing, and It may fill
some of the gaps in my knowledge.

The Klingon playing the Theremin was awful once he started
singing.  Of note, though, was the coiled pitch antenna.  This
guy didn't do much with pitch, but I have experimented with
this on one of mine.  I use malleable copper wire, and have
configured a couple sharp curves.  Moving the hand vertically
gives you a fixed pitch set (because of the varying distances).
Horizontal proximity modulates this pitch set higher and lower.
"Normal" play is still possible by staying in one vertical position.


On Nov 2, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

> Salon.com has a review of a new book by Alex Ross about "contemporary
> composers" called "The Rest Is Noise."  Has anyone read the book?
>
> http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/11/02/alex_ross/
>
> I perused through the letters, which are generally what one would
> expect.  One sentence I was rather fond of:
>
> ". . . it's hardly the kind of music you want to have playing in the
> background while you're doing the dishes -- though I encourage you to
> try it anyway, because it will really change the way you feel about
> dishes."
>
> Also of note was a letter from Rupert C. who posted a link to what is
> apparently a Klingon playing a Theramin
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1WlvegSSPQ
>
> mg
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
***************************************



From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sat Nov  3 10:59:32 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 10:59:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADE9@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADE9@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
Message-ID: <7DBE7F63-5E03-4D1F-95F7-D295F6EF0BD2@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Nov 3, 2007, at 1:46 AM, Michael Henry wrote:

> Alex Ross seems to frequently speak from his ass. Please don't take  
> anything his ass says for granted. Do some fact checking on your own.

I suspected as much. . . A letter or two in response had said  
basically as much, but I haven't read any of his stuff. I wondered if  
it might be a reasonable to refer those folks who I occasionally  
encounter (most often well-off white males over 55. . .) who ask me  
"what's wrong with modern music?" But there's probably nothing to  
help those folks. . . ( My last response to "I could have written  
that" referring to 4'33" was "Oh really? What other works by Cage  
could you have written, too?") But then maybe Ross would be good for  
these folks because they love talking out their ass as well. . .

> NPR demographics (why bother?) and Klingon Thereminists (ugh) aside

I think some of the NPR demographics are salvageable, since there are  
occasional things on NPR that may actually be revealing- the "Fresh  
Air" on the connection between media images of torture (especially  
24) and it's influence on the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib  
and Guantanamo by a professional interrogator was a decent show. . .  
didn't go far enough (such as mentioning the guy who created 24 is a  
friend of Limbaugh, that it is now the political model to be referred  
to in Presidential debates. . . etc.) But it opened the door, at least.

Of course their cultural reporting is abysmal- the Boulez 80th  
Birthday tribute which included extensive sections of his conducting  
of Mahler and Beethoven and approximately 5 seconds of "Le marteau  
sans ma?tre," 4 seconds of which was talked over.  Same is true of  
much KQED stuff- "Forum" a year or so ago had Midori and Robert  
Greenberg to promote her upcoming concert focused on contemporary  
music, and Krazney played excerpts from Midori playing Beethoven,  
Brahms. . . not a single note of contemporary music. Classic examples  
of marginalizing forms of expression at the moment they say they are  
promoting them. But this mechanism is part of the mindset of the  
programmers, not the listeners. No doubt that instinctual edges  
result from well ingrained  considerations of alienating their  
audiences, but on the other hand, a certain percentage of any  
audience might be willing to be more open to new forms of expression  
if led into it by a trusted and informed source. The rest would  
probably say, "that was weird" and then move on to Susan Stamberg's  
Cranberry Relish recipe.

Though when things open a little, all it takes is one self-promoting  
Klingon to reinforce stereotypes. . .

Good point about the assumptive preponderance of the serialists.   
Also, Grisey was at UC Berkeley in the 80's, a notoriously  
conservative music dept up until recently.  I think you're right on  
the money about "academic refugees" who make the association between  
academia and serialist hegemony.  But that's also a product of music  
theory classes, which tended to end, until recently, with a large  
chapter on serialism. So a community college in, say, Ohio in the  
70's, 80s, and even 90's, would end their two years with a dose of  
tone-rows and ultra-serialism. Things are a bit better now, with  
inclusion of  folks like Oliveros in the Grout, so the general  
pedagogy has moved on a bit. . . a bit. . .

Hmmm, a Saturday morning rant.

mg


>
> Quite often, what comes from his ass makes me want to commit  
> Gannicide.
>
> For someone with some major media establishment entities and  
> (assumedly) a few fact-checkers behind him, he is often very loose  
> with the facts, not only regarding music history, but...well, music  
> in general.
>
> Here is a relatively recent example, from a piece dated June 25th,  
> 2007 that appeared in the New Yorker:
>
> "On the Internet, the landscape of American orchestral life is  
> visible as never before. Almost all professional orchestras have  
> their own Web sites, where you can study schedules, listen to MP3s,  
> admire pictures of the executive director with donors, and read  
> cute bios of the players. (The oboist bungee-jumps; ergo, musicians  
> are human beings, not alien geeks.) Wandering around this virtual  
> map, you can see signs that America?s orchestras are vacillating  
> between vague optimism and raw panic. In some cases, straight-up  
> classical works are perilously rare; concertos of Rachmaninoff and  
> Tchaikovsky huddle among prepackaged pops programs like ?Barbie at  
> the Symphony? (an edutainment event backed by Mattel) and ?The  
> Music of Barbra Streisand? (Babs not included). Nearly as often,  
> you stumble on happy surprises. Who would have guessed that the  
> Redwood Symphony, a volunteer orchestra in the Silicon Valley area,  
> has played all of Mahler?s symphonies? That the South Dakota  
> Symphony has featured eight Pulitzer Prize-winning works this  
> season? Or that the Rochester Philharmonic just recorded, on the  
> Harmonia Mundi label, one of the snappiest Gershwin disks in years?"
>
> So, all that poop about the "progressive" programming and happy  
> surprises aside (how many concerts/how much programming by regional  
> orchestras have you atended/been impressed with lately? Does  
> American orchestra life really seem more "visible" to you these  
> days?).....Alex Ross wrote:
>
>>> "The South Dakota Symphony has featured eight Pulitzer Prize- 
>>> winning works this season"
>
>
> If you take a moment of your time and actually go to the web site  
> of the South Dakota Symphony:
>
> http://www.sdsymphony.org/20062007Season/ImperialSeries/index.cfm
>
> You will find that for their 2006-2007 season:
>
> George Crumb indeed won a Pulitzer in 1968, but not for "A Haunted  
> Landscape."
>
> Apparently they performed Yehudi Wyner's Piano Concerto, "Ciavi in  
> Mano", which was the 2006 winner.
>
> And Christopher Rouse did win a Pulitzer for his Trombone Concerto.
>
>
> ...So, lets see....uh, that makes exactly *two* Pulitzer-winning  
> works for "this season."  Three Pulitzer-winning composers, two  
> Pulitzer-winning works.
>
>
> Well, you say....perhaps he meant more than just "this  
> season?"...i.e including 2005-6? Again:
>
> http://www.sdsymphony.org/20052006Season/Index.cfm
>
>
> Steven Stucky did indeed win a Pulitzer for his Second Concerto for  
> Orchestra
>
> The work of Zwillich they performed (Trumpet Cto) is not a Pulitzer  
> prize winner, although she did win a Pulitzer for her First Symphony.
>
> The South Dakota Symphony site lists Rochberg's Oboe Concerto as  
> winning the prize in 1972. This is not true. He's never won a  
> Pulitzer (!!!) Jacob Druckman won the prize in 1972, for "Windows."
>
> ....So for 2005-6 they performed exactly *one* Pulitzer-winning  
> work. Two Pulitzer-winning composers.
>
> Check the winners here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize_for_Music
>
>
> That makes exactly four works that won Pulitzers, split across  
> their last two seasons. And Five Pulitzer-winning composers  
> programmed during their past two seasons, in total.  Not "eight  
> Pulitzer-winning works" featured "this season."
>
>
> It is this sort of thing that bothers me greatly about Mr. Ross.  
> Just spew, and if it fits his meme, it must be true. No facts are  
> necessary. Like the pervasive myth of the 12-tone "orthodoxy"  
> entrenched in their "ivory towers" suppressing the work of the neo- 
> tonalists of the 60s, 70s and 80s, that he (and many others, Mr.  
> Gannicide included) likes to carp upon so regularly. Puhleeese. Do  
> some fact checking....will ya, Alex? Just look at the composition  
> faculties at the major music conservatories/universities during the  
> period in question. You'll find a lot of names like William  
> Schumann, David Diamond, etc., but aside from Milton Babbitt at  
> Princeton (and Donald Martino...and maybe Ralph Shapey at  
> University of Chicago -- although I would not consider U of C to be  
> a major music school), you'll be hard pressed to find many serial  
> composers at any of the major music schools, not to mention the  
> minor ones, where there were even more more tonal/neo-tonalists in  
> residence. Again...do the research, will ya Alex? Hell, even  
> Schoenberg didn't teach serial composition to students at UCLA. He  
> taught TONAL harmony, counterpoint and form. "Orthodoxy" my ass.
>
> I agree, he certainly doesn't sound patronizing, and is rather  
> fluffy (perfect for NPR but not for the so-called hardcore folks)  
> but hey, that's part of the problem, IMHO. It makes it much more  
> easy for him to disseminate misinformation. Much like certain Fox  
> Nooze pundits.
>
> Standard disclaimer.
>
> -MH
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:44:13 -0700
> From: David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Book Review
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID: <40937574-044D-4E97-B926-2AFB1492C096 at pixar.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> I heard the author on public radio (yes, I'm in that demographic)
> and  the book sounded a bit introductory for the hardcore
> intellectuals on the list.  Still, I'm going to look for it as a cure
> for my insomnia.  He didn't seem patronizing, and It may fill
> some of the gaps in my knowledge.
>
> The Klingon playing the Theremin was awful once he started
> singing.  Of note, though, was the coiled pitch antenna.  This
> guy didn't do much with pitch, but I have experimented with
> this on one of mine.  I use malleable copper wire, and have
> configured a couple sharp curves.  Moving the hand vertically
> gives you a fixed pitch set (because of the varying distances).
> Horizontal proximity modulates this pitch set higher and lower.
> "Normal" play is still possible by staying in one vertical position.
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:
>
>> Salon.com has a review of a new book by Alex Ross about "contemporary
>> composers" called "The Rest Is Noise."  Has anyone read the book?
>>
>> http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/11/02/alex_ross/
>>
>> I perused through the letters, which are generally what one would
>> expect.  One sentence I was rather fond of:
>>
>> ". . . it's hardly the kind of music you want to have playing in the
>> background while you're doing the dishes -- though I encourage you to
>> try it anyway, because it will really change the way you feel about
>> dishes."
>>
>> Also of note was a letter from Rupert C. who posted a link to what is
>> apparently a Klingon playing a Theramin
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1WlvegSSPQ
>>
>> mg
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
> ***************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com




From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  3 12:26:47 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:26:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <7DBE7F63-5E03-4D1F-95F7-D295F6EF0BD2@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADE9@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
	<7DBE7F63-5E03-4D1F-95F7-D295F6EF0BD2@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W33C8DD3811E9400D052DBCC18E0@phx.gbl>



> I think some of the NPR demographics are salvageable

Well...maybe, maybe not.
The *real* NPR demographic might be represented by
the woman who called in to yesterday's Forum show about
the imminent Hollywood writer's strike: she worried that she
and her husband wouldn't know what to do with themselves
if their TV schedule were disrupted. And elsewhere in the program,
there were statistics cited that Americans now watch 8 hours of TV per
day. Does anyone know if this is true?


> But this mechanism is part of the mindset of the programmers, not the listeners. 

Or maybe the programmers just give the listeners what they want, all
of them, programmers and listeners, being folks cut from a similar cloth.
And what they want is to *feel* like they're culturally informed - not that
they're going to do anything different with their 'leisure' time. They might
hear a review by Kevin Whitehead about a Steve Lacy or Ben Goldberg
recording, which is about as far out as you're going to get on NPR, but most 
likely what they have in their iPod is White Stripes and Norah Jones. 
Take "A Prairie Home Companion" - they feature lots and lots of music,
nearly all of it Americana of some sort, and 100% of it completely safe, 
sentimental and as derivative and inoffensive as possible. These people don't 
want Roscoe Holcomb, or even Billie Holiday - they prefer Bela Fleck and Madeleine 
Peyroux. That's your NPR demographic.



> I think you're right on the money about "academic refugees" who make the 
> association between academia and serialist hegemony. 

I still remember John Adams' whiny, pathetic, and ultimately insecure and defensive
rant (on NPR, of course) about how he rebelled against the 'serialist hegemony' of
his time - and while he was at it, he took a few potshots at the European avant garde
of the 60's. Would that he could ever be even mentioned seriously in the same breath 
as Nono and Ligeti...

-George
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sat Nov  3 13:32:46 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:32:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W33C8DD3811E9400D052DBCC18E0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADE9@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
	<7DBE7F63-5E03-4D1F-95F7-D295F6EF0BD2@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W33C8DD3811E9400D052DBCC18E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <95D3DD27-4611-470B-A432-C7C375A936CD@matthewgoodheart.com>

Well, my experience is a bit different. For example, I've been able  
to get Fundamentalist Christians (including some Republicans who  
watch Fox News several hours a day) to go to sfSound concerts, Cecil  
Taylor, and several of my performances. They loved the Xenakis at  
last Feb's sfSound, for example. I was able to do this by leading  
them into it in an open way, discussing the music with them, giving  
them a "personal" way in because they trusted me (the fools!). They  
may not run out and buy "Dark to Themselves," but they enjoyed the  
experiences, respect the music, and feel that it is valid.

Music is essentially tribal in nature, so folks tend to be more open  
when things "outside the tribe" are presented to them in a friendly  
way from someone "inside the tribe."  It's not true for all people,  
but it is true for some. So therefore a certain percentage of people  
who don't know what to do with themselves when CSI is in reruns,  
might be open to something new if presented to them in a certain  
way.  But if it's presented to them as "weird," or "angry new music"  
or something ( like a Terry Gross cute-ified Sun Ra), they are more  
likely to use that as a filter for their experience.

Then there is the issue of "demographic" itself. . . so far you, me,  
and Slusser are apparently NPR listeners, so. . . doesn't mean we are  
"typical," but then no one is if you dig deep enough.

mg


On Nov 3, 2007, at 12:26 PM, George Cremaschi wrote:

>
>
>> I think some of the NPR demographics are salvageable
>
> Well...maybe, maybe not.
> The *real* NPR demographic might be represented by
> the woman who called in to yesterday's Forum show about
> the imminent Hollywood writer's strike: she worried that she
> and her husband wouldn't know what to do with themselves
> if their TV schedule were disrupted. And elsewhere in the program,
> there were statistics cited that Americans now watch 8 hours of TV per
> day. Does anyone know if this is true?
>
>
>> But this mechanism is part of the mindset of the programmers, not  
>> the listeners.
>
> Or maybe the programmers just give the listeners what they want, all
> of them, programmers and listeners, being folks cut from a similar  
> cloth.
> And what they want is to *feel* like they're culturally informed -  
> not that
> they're going to do anything different with their 'leisure' time.  
> They might
> hear a review by Kevin Whitehead about a Steve Lacy or Ben Goldberg
> recording, which is about as far out as you're going to get on NPR,  
> but most
> likely what they have in their iPod is White Stripes and Norah Jones.
> Take "A Prairie Home Companion" - they feature lots and lots of music,
> nearly all of it Americana of some sort, and 100% of it completely  
> safe,
> sentimental and as derivative and inoffensive as possible. These  
> people don't
> want Roscoe Holcomb, or even Billie Holiday - they prefer Bela  
> Fleck and Madeleine
> Peyroux. That's your NPR demographic.
>
>
>
>> I think you're right on the money about "academic refugees" who  
>> make the
>> association between academia and serialist hegemony.
>
> I still remember John Adams' whiny, pathetic, and ultimately  
> insecure and defensive
> rant (on NPR, of course) about how he rebelled against the  
> 'serialist hegemony' of
> his time - and while he was at it, he took a few potshots at the  
> European avant garde
> of the 60's. Would that he could ever be even mentioned seriously  
> in the same breath
> as Nono and Ligeti...
>
> -George
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.  
> Stop by today.
> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html? 
> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com




From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sat Nov  3 13:51:04 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:51:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
Message-ID: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>

George wrote:
Well...maybe, maybe not.
The *real* NPR demographic might be represented by
the woman who called in to yesterday's Forum show ...

-- several years back Forum did a show about the Music for People &
Thingamajigs Festival. I think I called in and got to plug a 21 Grand show
featuring one of the musicians.

More George:
And elsewhere in the program,
there were statistics cited that Americans now watch 8 hours of TV per
day. Does anyone know if this is true?

-- I'd guess that statistic could be true if applied to the average American
household - that the TV is on 8 hours per day. If the average American
worked 8 hours a day, spent at least an hour commuting, and then watched 8
hours of TV, when would the average American have time to go shopping? But
of course, that would be the average American, not every American. Even if
statistically 90% of Americans watched too much TV, that still leaves 10%,
which is a large number of people.

George continues:
Or maybe the programmers just give the listeners what they want, all
of them, programmers and listeners, being folks cut from a similar cloth.
And what they want is to *feel* like they're culturally informed -... These
people don't 
want Roscoe Holcomb, or even Billie Holiday - they prefer Bela Fleck and
Madeleine 
Peyroux. That's your NPR demographic.

-- I agree with you, George, to some extent, and I'm rarely one to
overestimate the cultural curiosity and taste of the American people ... but
I think there's something of a contradiction in what you're saying.
Basically, the audience is relying on the programmers to give them that
feeling of being culturally informed, thus they are saying, "Tell me what I
should like." Let's say, instead of Bela Fleck or Ben Goldberg, the NPR
programmer played Xenakis or Metal Machine Music. I don't doubt that the
majority of the listeners would probably not like that. However, there would
probably be some that would, or at least find it interesting. The issue is,
how many people does that "some" translate into? Probably thousands. Yes, we
are talking about minorities of minorities (at this point in time, I wonder
if there is music or film or even a TV show that is consumed by the majority
of people), but the numbers are still significant in terms of potential
audiences for experimental music.

sl


From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  3 14:55:39 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 14:55:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>




>But if it's presented to them as "weird," or "angry new music" 
>or something ( like a Terry Gross cute-ified Sun Ra), they are more 
>likely to use that as a filter for their experience.

And of course, that *is* how it is presented. Sure, things would be
different if things were different, but I'm talking about how things
are, and how things are is that what I consider serious contemporary
art is almost always presented with a bunch of bullshit qualifiers and
excuses. Do they say "here's another cutesy, precious and cloying piece
from Bill Frisell"?

I'm glad that Fox-watching Republicans can appreciate Xenakis. That
soothes my misanthropy a bit. But the larger question is, will those folks
get curious enough to go back on their own, or is the one time they are
prodded into going to a Goodheart show the one time they'll do it?
Or will they spend the next ten years patting themsleves on the back
for being so adventurous that one time, while religiously watching every 
episode of 24 and the West Wing and America's Top Model?

-George

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sat Nov  3 15:02:24 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:02:24 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
Message-ID: <C3523E00.22A02%21grand@21grand.org>

Thanks to this thread title, I have David Bowie's "Suffragette City" stuck
in my head.  Not complaining, mind you, save for the fact that I'm having
trouble coming up with new lyrics to fit the subject.

sl


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sat Nov  3 16:30:11 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (matthew at matthewgoodheart.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 16:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>

George said:

>>But if it's presented to them as "weird," or "angry new music"
>>or something (like a Terry Gross cute-ified Sun Ra), they are more
>>likely to use that as a filter for their experience.
>
> And of course, that *is* how it is presented. Sure, things would be
> different if things were different, but I'm talking about how things
> are, and how things are is that what I consider serious contemporary
> art is almost always presented with a bunch of bullshit qualifiers and
> excuses.

Yup. But this is a criticism of the presenters, not the audience. So this
is what the NPR staff think themselves, or think that their listeners
need. The "laity," as it were, are responsive to how things are framed.
That is why I'm far more critical of those who present things in a stupid
way than those who don't understand that the unfamiliar stuff they've been
presented with has been framed in an bogus way, which was basically my
point.

> I'm glad that Fox-watching Republicans can appreciate Xenakis. That
> soothes my misanthropy a bit. But the larger question is, will those folks
> get curious enough to go back on their own, or is the one time they are
> prodded into going to a Goodheart show the one time they'll do it?

My experience has been that there are few converts, but a greater
willingness to "live and let live" and respect that that kind of music is
serious and should be presented, which I think is what we should hope for
at the moment. On the other hand, several of their kids (whom I have
taught) have gone on to do some really cool stuff, both listening to and
performing all sorts of good music.

> Or will they spend the next ten years patting themsleves on the back
> for being so adventurous that one time, while religiously watching every
> episode of 24 and the West Wing and America's Top Model?

Right Wing Fundies watch West Wing?

mg

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Nov  3 23:32:44 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:32:44 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl> 
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>



> Yup. But this is a criticism of the presenters, not the audience. So this
> is what the NPR staff think themselves, or think that their listeners
> need. The "laity," as it were, are responsive to how things are framed.

Yes and no. I think your model of a media that decrees, and a
submissive audience that laps it up, is seriously flawed. They
give us what we tell them we want, and how they figure this out
is through the usual demographic process - media surveys,
ratings, focus groups, etc, and perhaps most importantly, which
shows take in the most money at pledge time. Do you think it's
an accident that KPFA nixed almost all of it's interesting music
programming a few years ago? Or was it a result of them noticing
that the Deadhead Hour brings in the most money, and that Berkeley
Deadheads in turn love nothing more than generic world music?

The same with the overall flavor of NPR. I contend that it's carefully
crafted to give it's listeners exactly what they want: a vision of the
world that will allow them to drive their hybrids, drink their Fair Trade
coffee, drop their kids off at Montessori, listen to Yo-Yo Ma, and plan that 
next skiing trip while feeling guardedly optimistic about the future: we know 
there are a lot of problems, but it'll all work out in the end. 


> Right Wing Fundies watch West Wing?

Sorry, I was thinking of 'Law and Order', and Fred Thompson...


-George
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033

From slusser at pixar.com  Sat Nov  3 22:33:23 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:33:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <7AE43BA4-5280-43C0-A36A-6E7D6EB4B0F3@pixar.com>

On Nov 3, 2007, at 4:30 PM, matthew at matthewgoodheart.com wrote:
> George said:
>
>>> But if it's presented to them as "weird," or "angry new music"
>>> or something (like a Terry Gross cute-ified Sun Ra), they are more
>>> likely to use that as a filter for their experience.
>>
>> And of course, that *is* how it is presented. Sure, things would be
>> different if things were different, but I'm talking about how things
>> are, and how things are is that what I consider serious contemporary
>> art is almost always presented with a bunch of bullshit qualifiers  
>> and
>> excuses.
>
> Yup. But this is a criticism of the presenters, not the audience.  
> So this
> is what the NPR staff think themselves, or think that their listeners
> need. The "laity," as it were, are responsive to how things are  
> framed.
> That is why I'm far more critical of those who present things in a  
> stupid
> way than those who don't understand that the unfamiliar stuff  
> they've been
> presented with has been framed in an bogus way, which was basically my
> point.
>
>> I'm glad that Fox-watching Republicans can appreciate Xenakis. That
>> soothes my misanthropy a bit. But the larger question is, will  
>> those folks
>> get curious enough to go back on their own, or is the one time  
>> they are
>> prodded into going to a Goodheart show the one time they'll do it?
>
> My experience has been that there are few converts, but a greater
> willingness to "live and let live" and respect that that kind of  
> music is
> serious and should be presented, which I think is what we should  
> hope for
> at the moment. On the other hand, several of their kids (whom I have
> taught) have gone on to do some really cool stuff, both listening  
> to and
> performing all sorts of good music.
>
>> Or will they spend the next ten years patting themsleves on the back
>> for being so adventurous that one time, while religiously watching  
>> every
>> episode of 24 and the West Wing and America's Top Model?

The point I tried to make in my Transbay review of Daniel Levitin's book
was that most people are not ever going to recognize these challenging
sounds as music.  Intellectually, maybe yes, for the tiny percentage of
Americans that think, but getting pleasure from it, probably not.
Practitioners may be the only ones familiar enough to enjoy the nuance.
Anger about this is misplaced.  So are feelings of superiority.  It's  
early
exposure, some kind of individual curiosity and nerdy study that lets  
you
delight in uncommonly heard sounds.  I fit Mr. Goodheart's description
perfectly:  white-male-over-55-state-school-in-Ohio-in-the-70s (and to
top it off, he caught me going into Ace Hardware this afternoon to buy a
toilet seat), but, still, I prefer the "outside".  Being in the NPR  
demographic
does not make you of the NPR demographic.

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sat Nov  3 23:53:32 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:53:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Nov 3, 2007, at 11:32 PM, George Cremaschi wrote:

> Yes and no. I think your model of a media that decrees, and a  
> submissive audience that laps it up, is seriously flawed.

I think that's a bit reductive as to what I said, or at least was  
intending to say. . . On average, people who are confronted with  
information/experience that is unknown are influenced by the way that  
information is frame, even more so if that framing is done trusted  
people or accepted authority figures . Of course, a certain  
percentage will like it and a certain percentage will dislike it, no  
matter how it is framed. A much smaller percentage will not pass  
judgement, be curious, spend some time investigating and try to take  
the experience on it's own terms. But a large percentage will be  
greatly influenced by the frame, simply because they do not have  
familiar reference points to understand or process the experience.   
It's a pretty understandable response, and there are times when we  
all do it.

It's even more complex when the experience is "semi-familiar," and  
especially complex when that familiarity is an essential part of  
tribal identity, like music.

> They give us what we tell them we want, and how they figure this  
> out is through the usual demographic process - media surveys,
> ratings, focus groups, etc, and perhaps most importantly, which  
> shows take in the most money at pledge time.

No doubt, though this also depends on what kind of people respond to  
surveys, participate in focus groups, and (most importantly) pledge  
the money, which is only a certain, and perhaps small, percentage of  
the actual listening audience.

I would also suggest that an additional part of the switch in  
programming at KPFA has been part of a larger cultural movement  
toward seeing media as purely a "product/commodity" rather than at  
least a partially educational/information medium, which has sprung up  
as part of the late 20th-Century business model of reducing the  
number of products to only the "most popular," creating the most  
profit for the least amount of work. (Back to the Spectacle/ 
Commodity. . . sell the image of information rather than actual  
information.) This became coupled with a prevailing psychological  
desire for reduction and simplification, in response the increase in  
information and possibilities created by new forms of media.

> The same with the overall flavor of NPR. I contend that it's  
> carefully crafted to give it's listeners exactly what they want: a  
> vision of the
> world that will allow them to drive their hybrids, drink their Fair  
> Trade coffee, drop their kids off at Montessori, listen to Yo-Yo  
> Ma, and plan that
> next skiing trip while feeling guardedly optimistic about the future:

Nes and Yo. I agree that it's the prevailing message, but it's  
targeted at the folks who will produce the money for them, not the  
entire listening audience. And in fairness, some reports have dug  
deeper: the This American Life on Guantanamo was pretty disturbing,  
for example.

Dave "The Man" Slusser wrote after purchasing toilet seats:
> I fit Mr. Goodheart's description perfectly:  white-male-over-55- 
> state-school-in-Ohio-in-the-70s. . .  Being in the NPR demographic  
> does not make you of the NPR demographic.

WM+55 (or in my case balding WM at 40) would make you more typically a  
Limbaugh "demographic." I meant that you, George, and I actually must  
listen to NPR, therefore in a larger sense are part of the NPR  
"demographic" of listeners - I was using the term ironically. . .

Oh well, I'm off in the Prius to get new skis for the kids and pick  
up my Xanax prescription.

mg

From magsatellite at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 00:00:28 2007
From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 00:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1194148804.25278.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <142365.29395.qm@web45107.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


--- newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
> NPR demographics (why bother?) and Klingon Thereminists (ugh) aside...

i was extremely disappointed to find that he was not actually a klingon.

nonetheless i enjoyed his performance. i even watched the whole thing. it made
me happy that he was doing it.

MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel 
magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com
http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sun Nov  4 00:09:44 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:09:44 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
Message-ID: <C352BE48.22A30%21grand@21grand.org>

George wrote:
Yes and no. I think your model of a media that decrees, and a
submissive audience that laps it up, is seriously flawed.

-- that would be the "hypodermic" model as proposed by Teddy Adorno that
post-modernists have spent almost half a century attacking.

sl


From slusser at pixar.com  Sun Nov  4 00:54:09 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 00:54:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] W.A. Mathieu
In-Reply-To: <348394.9467.qm@web55605.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <348394.9467.qm@web55605.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F6DD9058-CE74-4879-BF3F-B30573E4FA5E@pixar.com>

On Nov 1, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Jon Raskin wrote:
> I really meant form though as opposed to aesthetic.  There is a  
> place where there is form in improvisation and the games are at  
> that line area which is formed by the boundries of the individual  
> interaction.
> Free Jazz, Free improvisation was move away from an over used form  
> but rules have evolved and the language has mutated.
>
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
>
> I've heard the recording several times, and I'd agree with you,
> although I'd use the term "aesthetic" rather than form; the aesthetic
> intent follows Mathieu's change since the early 70's, which seems to
> focus on a certain "spirituality" which might be perceived as "new
> age," though certainly far more sophisticated and technically complex
> than what one would normally associate with that term. Knowing what
> little I do about the aesthetics of folks on this list, I think that
> Game/No Game would not be greeted well, but that Ghost Opera could be
> of interest in some quarters. Also, GO involves a greater number of
> people, so it's interesting to hear how the games play out in that
> more complex scenario.

Any relation to Ghost Trance Music?  Perhaps so in terms of formula.

Thanks for posting the link to the games.  They jibe with my Improv
Derby collection, and are like individual operations in Zorn's game  
theory.
Mr. Raskin pointed out form as the point of these things.  The aesthetic
is not on the paper - that comes with the particular individuals.  Games
should get respect for what they are, and what the name implies.   
They're
totally unnecessary in the few long-running improv ensembles I've had
the pleasure of continuing with - we don't need help improvising form
since longevity has built mutually recognizable cornices.  However,  
they're
totally great as introductory tools.  The strongest point is that  
each is just
one simple idea.  That's more than enough when you're working with
substantial talent. It's especially helpful when the talents are  
idiomatically
diverse.  I think we need to play with people outside our safety zones.

I actually ran across a W.A. Mathieu quote days before the posting.
 From a jazzrag archive snippet:

Atonality In Jazz	By Bill Mathieu		May 10th, 1962

Most so-called atonal jazz of today has been at best inconsistently so.
There have been some notable exceptions, especially in the work of
Lennie Tristano, and some of the newest music, all of which I haven't
heard.  On the whole, jazzmen today are not eager to master the vast
new disciplines necessary to gain the freedom of intentional disregard
of key.

(The really outstanding example I've found of this is Duane Tatro's
1955 recording titled Music For Moderns.  By the book, it's totally
atonal, yet the formal structure and improvisation lean to jazz.)

another archive snippet (and another thread, indeed):

The Further Adventures of Sonny Rollins
	     by Joe Goldberg				August 26, 1965
"The average Joe knows just as much as I do," Rollins said.  "I'm the
average Joe, and I think people recognize that.  That's why I play
standards.  Everybody knows "Stardust".  These guys who play their
own tunes, they can cover up a lot of things, but if you play the
melody of "Stardust", everybody can tell whether you're doing it
right or not."

(Something about my earlier posting suggests we need to make the
malleable outre more de-riguer in the average Joe's musical diet.)

From slusser at pixar.com  Sun Nov  4 01:02:11 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:02:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <65B8D9FD-4C05-4902-898E-C0648680204E@pixar.com>

On Nov 3, 2007, at 11:53 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:
> Oh well, I'm off in the Prius to get new skis for the kids and pick
> up my Xanax prescription.

Funny, I have an Xenakis prescription.

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  4 01:18:04 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:18:04 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl> 
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>



> On average, people who are confronted with information/experience 
> that is unknown are influenced by the way that information is frame

Of course, I agree - I'm just saying that the framing is done as
part of a conscious feedback loop, where they are telling us what they
know at least some of us want to hear. There's nothing inherently
wrong in that, other than what often happens in a hyper-capitalist society
where news and culture organizations have to sell their product.

>I agree that it's the prevailing message, but it's  
>targeted at the folks who will produce the money for them, not the  
>entire listening audience. And in fairness, some reports have dug  
>deeper: the This American Life on Guantanamo was pretty disturbing,  
>for example.

Well there's no question that a certain amount of the programming
is unblinking and fairly objective - my point is just that the whole
thing is carefully calibrated to not be a total bummer. The super bleak
story about melting polar ice caps is always followed by a heartwarming
story about a Guatemalan organic coffee collective, or the BBC news is 
followed by those cackling car repair cretins...

But for me there is an even larger issue, frightening as well as fascinating:
how demographics is creating the very people it needs to in order to fulfill it's 
mission. How more and more people are becoming little more than the products 
and ideas they've been sold, believing in them only until the next batch arrives. 
Of course, there will always be the 10% (or 5%, or 1%...) who can decide for 
themselves, (at least until the order goes out to get rid of the 'intellectuals').
But in our "democracy", that doesn't even get you a local assembly seat. 

-George



_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct

From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Sun Nov  4 01:30:27 2007
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:30:27 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADEA@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>

>>Thanks to this thread title, I have David Bowie's "Suffragette City" stuck
>>in my head.  Not complaining, mind you, save for the fact that I'm having
>>trouble coming up with new lyrics to fit the subject.

Hey man, oh leave me alone you know
Hey man, oh Henry, get off the new music list, I gotta
Hey man, I gotta chord to resolve
This mellow thighed chick just made me write parallel fifths

Hey man, my schooldays insane
Hey man, it's Milton Babbitt again
Hey man, he's a total blam-blam
He said he had to squeeze John Adams, but... then he...

(CHORUS)
Oh don't lean on me man, cause you can't afford the ticket
I'm back on Tonalist City
Oh don't lean on me man
Cause you ain't got time to check it
You know my Tonalist City
Is outta sight...and Adorno is right

Hey man, Henry, don't be unkind, go away
Hey man, I can't take it this time, no way
Hey man, John Adams don't crash here
There's only room for one and here he comes, here he comes

CHORUS

Oh spit on me!  

CHORUS

A Tonalist City, a Neo-Tonalist City
I'm back on Tonalist City, I'm back on Tonalist City
Ooo, Neo-tonalist city, ooo, Neo-Tonalist City
Oooh-how, Tonalist City, oooh-how, Tonalist City, oooh-how
Tonalist

Ohhh, Wham Bam Thank You Milton!

A Tonalist City, a Neo-Tonalist City
  Quite all right
A Tonalist City
  Too fine
A Neo-Tonalist City, ooh, a Neo-Tonalist City
Oh, my Tonalist City, oh my Neo-Tonalist City
Oh, Tonalist
Neo-Tonalist!

From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Sun Nov  4 01:58:54 2007
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:58:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 19, Issue 2
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADEB@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>


Matthew Goodheart wrote:

> Oh well, I'm off in the Prius to get new skis for the kids and pick
> up my Xanax prescription.

David Slusser responded:


>>Funny, I have an Xenakis prescription.

I hear you. I'm hooked too. Man, I had to go doctor shopping for extra Xenakis just so I could maintain.

I plan to try and kick the habit soon though. Going into rehab again -- I will try no Nono this time around.

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sun Nov  4 01:02:26 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:02:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADEA@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
References: <mailman.1.1194062401.23770.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<75DAF0131F83954E9E91C128EF9C7D8318ADEA@galaxy.paragon.crypticstudios.com>
Message-ID: <1CF64DAA-ED99-4CD2-A1CD-EDAFAC0C930F@matthewgoodheart.com>

I've heard this before. . . ironically it is was harmonized using  
serial techniques. . .


On Nov 4, 2007, at 1:30 AM, Michael Henry wrote:

>>> Thanks to this thread title, I have David Bowie's "Suffragette  
>>> City" stuck
>>> in my head.  Not complaining, mind you, save for the fact that  
>>> I'm having
>>> trouble coming up with new lyrics to fit the subject.
>
> Hey man, oh leave me alone you know
> Hey man, oh Henry, get off the new music list, I gotta
> Hey man, I gotta chord to resolve
> This mellow thighed chick just made me write parallel fifths
>
> Hey man, my schooldays insane
> Hey man, it's Milton Babbitt again
> Hey man, he's a total blam-blam
> He said he had to squeeze John Adams, but... then he...
>
> (CHORUS)
> Oh don't lean on me man, cause you can't afford the ticket
> I'm back on Tonalist City
> Oh don't lean on me man
> Cause you ain't got time to check it
> You know my Tonalist City
> Is outta sight...and Adorno is right
>
> Hey man, Henry, don't be unkind, go away
> Hey man, I can't take it this time, no way
> Hey man, John Adams don't crash here
> There's only room for one and here he comes, here he comes
>
> CHORUS
>
> Oh spit on me!
>
> CHORUS
>
> A Tonalist City, a Neo-Tonalist City
> I'm back on Tonalist City, I'm back on Tonalist City
> Ooo, Neo-tonalist city, ooo, Neo-Tonalist City
> Oooh-how, Tonalist City, oooh-how, Tonalist City, oooh-how
> Tonalist
>
> Ohhh, Wham Bam Thank You Milton!
>
> A Tonalist City, a Neo-Tonalist City
>   Quite all right
> A Tonalist City
>   Too fine
> A Neo-Tonalist City, ooh, a Neo-Tonalist City
> Oh, my Tonalist City, oh my Neo-Tonalist City
> Oh, Tonalist
> Neo-Tonalist!
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com




From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sun Nov  4 01:18:06 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:18:06 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Nov 4, 2007, at 1:18 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:

> But for me there is an even larger issue, frightening as well as  
> fascinating:
> how demographics is creating the very people it needs to in order  
> to fulfill it's
> mission. How more and more people are becoming little more than the  
> products
> and ideas they've been sold, believing in them only until the next  
> batch arrives.

I would agree, although people "becoming the products and ideas  
they've been sold" works only as in how they react as "consumers",  
the political voting blocks, etc. In those realms, many folk react  
based on the expectations of those who determine how they are to be  
treated. On individual levels, it's really different, and I know you  
know that, but it still needs to be said. . . I can't just dismiss  
them as soulless. . .

Tangentially topical is the film "Flock of Dodos," about the  
evolution/ID debate. Does a good job of humanizing the folks who are  
mind-bendingly ignorant about science, and briefly mentions how hey  
are exploited. Which brings up:

>  (at least until the order goes out to get rid of the  
> 'intellectuals').

Won't be long. . . you're the smart one getting overseas  before they  
start rounding us up. . .

mg

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  4 09:34:17 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:34:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] robots
In-Reply-To: <6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl> 
	<6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W1396F9ABE99E9A0ACD305DC18F0@phx.gbl>



Mr Goodheart:

> . . I can't just dismiss them as soulless. . .

Oh man, you need to get out of Berkeley once in a while, and see 
this great land of ours. I suggest a short trip out to Turlock, CA, 
on a nice warm evening. Take a stroll through one of the giant
shopping malls that conveniently line Highway 99. Then we'll
talk about it. But before you go out to mingle with the robots,
here is some preparatory viewing material:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQdhMSEqhfg

Cheers!

-George
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sun Nov  4 15:53:33 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 15:53:33 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] robots
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W1396F9ABE99E9A0ACD305DC18F0@phx.gbl>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>
	<6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W1396F9ABE99E9A0ACD305DC18F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0E6CC9CB-0D65-408C-805F-D2EF441F95E5@matthewgoodheart.com>

> Mr Goodheart:
>
>> . . I can't just dismiss them as soulless. . .
>
> Mr. Cremaschi wrote:

> Oh man, you need to get out of Berkeley once in a while, and see
> this great land of ours. I suggest a short trip out to Turlock, CA,
> on a nice warm evening. Take a stroll through one of the giant
> shopping malls that conveniently line Highway 99. Then we'll
> talk about it. But before you go out to mingle with the robots,

Well, strolling through a shopping mall doesn't seem to me to any way  
to get to know people as individuals. But then I spent a day in the  
Mall of America once. . . but just because people have been  
programmed into the "Spectacle/Commodity" mindset- especially when  
they have not had much exposure to alternatives, does not mean that  
they are "robots." . . .  these are real people with real problems,  
including broken families, abuse, psychological problems, drug  
addiction, etc., intensified by an increasingly unstable economic  
situation, job loss, etc.  I'm not joking about the Xanax. . . huge  
numbers of our population are on medication for anxiety and related  
problems because their lives are complex and unstable. Compound that  
with a poor education, and they are increasingly susceptible to  
either A) the Spectacle/Commodity or B) some kind of fundamentalism.  
Both provide a feeling of "control" over their lives (though they  
are, in fact, exactly the opposite), but they also believe these  
things because it is, in the short term, psychologically advantageous  
for them. Plus these "simple answers" are presented to them by  
extremely skilled propagandists, charismatic demagogues, and public  
relations firms like the Discovery Institute.  Again, I'll refer you  
to either Chris Hedges or "Flock of Dodos."

> here is some preparatory viewing material:  www.youtube.com/watch? 
> v=qQdhMSEqhfg

Yeah, I laughed.  It allowed me to feel intellectually superior to an  
18 yr old girl who was raised to believe that the best thing for her  
to do is to exploit her body in a quasi-pedophilic titillation  
contest, and then blanks out and fucks up on national TV thereby  
being humiliated in front of hundreds of millions of people (thanks  
YouTube!). To her credit, she went on NBC a few days later and talked  
about how she blew it and how stupid she sounded.  I don't know if I  
would have had the guts for that at 18, or even now.

Cheers too!
mg

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sun Nov  4 16:48:16 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:48:16 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic]  robots
Message-ID: <C353A850.22AA5%21grand@21grand.org>

Now there's a real sign of the class divisions of American society - those
who take Xanax versus those who take meth!

sl

Matt G. wrote:
I'm not joking about the Xanax. . . huge
numbers of our population are on medication for anxiety and related
problems because their lives are complex and unstable. 


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Sun Nov  4 20:45:30 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 20:45:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Book Review - Alex Ross = Gannicide
Message-ID: <174782.87986.qm@web50308.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>Tangentially topical is the film "Flock of Dodos," about the  
>evolution/ID debate. Does a good job of humanizing the folks who are  
>mind-bendingly ignorant about science, and briefly mentions how hey  
>are exploited. Which brings up:

I'll have to check that out...
I kinda thought that the whole arguement for creationism would have been squelched when they mapped the chimpanzee genome several years ago AT LEAST from the "well, even if your creator created you, you have to admit, that he still made you out of 98% chimpanzee parts..." arguement, but I guess not...and UNBELIEVABLY...it has picked up steam...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v17/i1/DNA.asp

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  5 02:15:46 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 02:15:46 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] robots
In-Reply-To: <0E6CC9CB-0D65-408C-805F-D2EF441F95E5@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>
	<6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W1396F9ABE99E9A0ACD305DC18F0@phx.gbl> 
	<0E6CC9CB-0D65-408C-805F-D2EF441F95E5@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W2371BFC69B66CB11D7DAB6C1880@phx.gbl>



> but just because people have been  
> programmed into the "Spectacle/Commodity" mindset- especially when  
> they have not had much exposure to alternatives,

Some days, I'm with that. Other days, I think, like, "programmed" ?
Bulldinky. They chose it. There's a ton of information out there.
More than ever - and fully available in Turlock. You no longer need
to be close to a print copy of The Village Voice. A ton of information,
and money, and privelege. They're choosing ignorance. Base high
school peer pressure, never gotten over. 

> these are real people with real problems,  
> including broken families, abuse, psychological problems, drug  
> addiction, etc., intensified by an increasingly unstable economic  
> situation, job loss, etc.  I'm not joking about the Xanax.

Boo hoo hoo. These are people with access to more money and leisure time 
than any general society before. I didn't see a whole lot of people diggin'
in the dirt for grains of rice out there in Turlock - what I saw was a disgusting
display of gross materialism. They all want this system - freedom, yeah! - let 'em 
choke on it.

 
> Yeah, I laughed.  It allowed me to feel intellectually superior to an  
> 18 yr old girl who was raised to believe that the best thing for her  
> to do is to exploit her body in a quasi-pedophilic titillation contest...

Give it up. You laughed, that's all that matters.

Let's hear it for laughter. No need for Xanax.


-George
_________________________________________________________________
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From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Mon Nov  5 08:23:39 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 08:23:39 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] robots
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W2371BFC69B66CB11D7DAB6C1880@phx.gbl>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>
	<6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W1396F9ABE99E9A0ACD305DC18F0@phx.gbl>
	<0E6CC9CB-0D65-408C-805F-D2EF441F95E5@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W2371BFC69B66CB11D7DAB6C1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <556B32D1-0A90-48D6-9612-B0017CAAB675@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:15 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:
> Boo hoo hoo. These are people with access to more money and leisure  
> time
> than any general society before. I didn't see a whole lot of people  
> diggin'
> in the dirt for grains of rice out there in Turlock - what I saw  
> was a disgusting
> display of gross materialism. They all want this system - freedom,  
> yeah! - let 'em
> choke on it.

Dude, I was raised in Marin. . . 

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Mon Nov  5 11:56:54 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 11:56:54 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] robots (flogging that dead horse)
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W2371BFC69B66CB11D7DAB6C1880@phx.gbl>
References: <C3522D48.229F5%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W198478BF3B204D0E4C72A2C18E0@phx.gbl>
	<18148.68.167.204.97.1194132611.squirrel@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W21F50428992F24C4CA8F4C18F0@phx.gbl>
	<FBC353A1-8CE0-41C8-9762-661C286431DE@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W5F690664CCAD9831A89DAC18F0@phx.gbl>
	<6D32CEBD-9C10-470A-884B-BB48DC731E6B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W1396F9ABE99E9A0ACD305DC18F0@phx.gbl>
	<0E6CC9CB-0D65-408C-805F-D2EF441F95E5@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BAY101-W2371BFC69B66CB11D7DAB6C1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B4B826A9-62CA-4D58-BD59-CC57D6F244F2@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Nov 5, 2007, at 2:15 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:

> A ton of information, and money, and privelege. They're choosing  
> ignorance. Base high
> school peer pressure, never gotten over.

Final thought. . l just because someone is an asshole doesn't mean  
they're a robot. . . 

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Nov  5 12:38:57 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:38:57 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic]  robots
Message-ID: <C354BF61.22B5D%21grand@21grand.org>

George wrote:
There's a ton of information out there.
More than ever - and fully available in Turlock. You no longer need
to be close to a print copy of The Village Voice.  A ton of information,
and money, and privelege. They're choosing ignorance.

-- true enough, but even back in the day, when one was reliant on, for
example, the local public library, there were still a lot of people that did
not go to the library. Why not? Clearly there are different reasons for
different people, but presumably if people are "choosing" ignorance, they
somehow value that ignorance or do not value intellectual curiosity (for
lack of a better term). Where does that value system come from?

More George:
These are people with access to more money and leisure time
than any general society before. I didn't see a whole lot of people diggin'
in the dirt for grains of rice out there in Turlock - what I saw was a
disgusting
display of gross materialism.

-- Turlock might not be the best example, George. It doesn't grow much rice,
but agriculture is a large part of the economy out there. That area also has
some of the worst air pollution in the state, worse than West Oakland, such
that hanging out in an air-conditioned indoor mall is actually a relatively
healthy activity for a resident of Turlock.

sl


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Nov  5 12:58:26 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 12:58:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic]  robots on video
Message-ID: <C354C3F2.22B62%21grand@21grand.org>

Has anyone else seen this movie? It's one of those films I saw as a teenager
that colored my "world view" for life:
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?_r=1&res=EE05E7DF173AE070BC4153DFB667
838E669EDE&oref=slogin

sl

>> here is some preparatory viewing material:  www.youtube.com/watch?
>> v=qQdhMSEqhfg

>Yeah, I laughed.  It allowed me to feel intellectually superior to an
>18 yr old girl who was raised to believe that the best thing for her
>to do is to exploit her body in a quasi-pedophilic titillation
>contest,


From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  5 13:45:49 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 13:45:49 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] robots
In-Reply-To: <C354BF61.22B5D%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C354BF61.22B5D%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W36E41B25C9BEC4CCB954D6C1880@phx.gbl>



> but presumably if people are "choosing" ignorance, they
> somehow value that ignorance or do not value intellectual curiosity (for
> lack of a better term). Where does that value system come from?

Well I guess we could go all the way back to the Puritans, who did highly value
education, but almost exclusively to be used in the service of religion.
Philosophical types tended to be persecuted as heretics. The rest was
neatly summed up by French historian Alexis de Tocqueville in his 
"Democracy in America" in 1835. From Wikipedia:

  More than just imploding any traces of old-world aristocracy, ordinary Americans also 
  refused to defer to those possessing, as Tocqueville put it, superior talent and intelligence. 
  These natural elites, who Tocqueville asserted were the lone virtuous members of American 
  society, could not enjoy much share in the political sphere as a result. Ordinary Americans 
  enjoyed too much power, claimed too great a voice in the public sphere, to defer to intellectual 
  superiors. This culture promoted a relatively pronounced equality, Tocqueville argued, but the 
  same mores and opinions that ensured such equality also promoted, as he put it, a middling 
  mediocrity. Those who possessed true virtue and talent would be left with limited choices, choices 
  which many have suggested shed light on American society today. Those with the most education 
  and intelligence would either, Tocqueville prognosticated, join limited intellectual circles to explore 
  the weighty and complex problems facing society which have today become the academic or 
  contemplative realms, or use their superior talents to take advantage of America's growing 
  obsession with money-making and amass vast fortunes in the private sector.

Brilliant, and right on the money, still. 

-George



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From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Mon Nov  5 15:25:16 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:25:16 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] =?iso-8859-1?q?Solidarit=E9?=
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W36E41B25C9BEC4CCB954D6C1880@phx.gbl>
References: <C354BF61.22B5D%21grand@21grand.org>
	<BAY101-W36E41B25C9BEC4CCB954D6C1880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FDAE0496-183C-4AD1-B275-F91C7669DF47@matthewgoodheart.com>

In support of our writer friends in Hollywood. . .

http://folk.ntnu.no/makarov/temporary_url_20070929kldcg/ 
internationale-fr-modern_third_verse.mp3

mg

From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Nov  5 23:24:59 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:24:59 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
Message-ID: <98C9C137-C9D3-470E-9B0E-F21EA2A390F9@pixar.com>

On the way out of tonight's improvisation
concert by Mills music faculty, I asked an
old acquaintance for an opinion.  "For all
the wisdom that apparently was on stage,
it could have been more in evidence" was
the reply, or words to that effect.  "They're
just green", I said, meaning as a performing
ensemble.  I enjoyed it overall - there were
some lovely moments, and resourcefulness
and restraint were well in evidence; except
for restraint in ensemble population.  We
got the trusty all-star performance instead
of the kind their students are turning in
around here: ones with more respectful
space.  My colleague swore some of the
players never laid out.  I countered that I
had made note that most did - just not
long or often enough.  My basic formula is:
layout for whatever fraction of the group
you are.  If it's a trio, lay out for a third of
the total (projected) time.  If it's a quartet,
lay out for a quarter.  If it's above five, you
need to lay out for an even longer percentage
- or you'll never get it down to passing duos
and trios.  This was a septet, and (Winnant
surprisingly excepted) no one got close to
laying out a 7th of the time (14%).  These
people have to relax and trust each other
more.




From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Mon Nov  5 23:41:00 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 23:41:00 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
In-Reply-To: <98C9C137-C9D3-470E-9B0E-F21EA2A390F9@pixar.com>
References: <98C9C137-C9D3-470E-9B0E-F21EA2A390F9@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <04613B6A-DFFE-40F3-B1D1-F1680A00F425@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Nov 5, 2007, at 11:24 PM, David Slusser wrote:
> I countered that I
> had made note that most did - just not
> long or often enough.  My basic formula is:
> layout for whatever fraction of the group
> you are.  If it's a trio, lay out for a third of
> the total (projected) time.  If it's a quartet,
> lay out for a quarter.  If it's above five, you
> need to lay out for an even longer percentage
> - or you'll never get it down to passing duos
> and trios.  This was a septet, and (Winnant
> surprisingly excepted) no one got close to
> laying out a 7th of the time (14%).

- I don't think quotas of space and silence are the answer, laying  
out out of obligation is rarely musical, and I doubt it would have  
improved the situation much.
It is more of a challenge to find a way to contribute the whole time,  
if that means leaving space, fine, but precise amount of space would  
be a nice goal, I like to think about Mondrian actually painting in  
the white areas most view as "Space". Space can also be created by re- 
orchestrating yourself through register, timbre and dynamics. There  
are a lot of ways to look at it and if there were any one answer to  
problems in improvised music there would be no reason to keep working  
on it.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  6 02:29:45 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 02:29:45 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
In-Reply-To: <04613B6A-DFFE-40F3-B1D1-F1680A00F425@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <98C9C137-C9D3-470E-9B0E-F21EA2A390F9@pixar.com>
	<04613B6A-DFFE-40F3-B1D1-F1680A00F425@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W18E574B68D5713CD7B57DFC1890@phx.gbl>



> if there were any one answer to problems in improvised music 
> there would be no reason to keep working on it.

One answer, however, is a given: a concert with seven players
freely improvising, with no particular philosophy, arrangements,
or performance history as a group, is bound to fail no matter 
how "all-star" the cast.

-George
_________________________________________________________________
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From jfheule at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 08:34:56 2007
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:34:56 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] europe
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860711060834h751d32e3rba492412b7b0c590@mail.gmail.com>

I'll be in Europe with Gowns very soon, and it looks like I might have
some time off in London, Vienna & Venice. If anyone has contact
info/recommendations for setting up some free improv shows on the
side, please send them my way. It's best to e-mail me off-list, so the
info doesn't get lost in the digests. Thanks!

jacob

-- 
http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick [nyc november]
http://myspace.com/gowns [upcoming euro tour]
http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Nov  6 08:54:18 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:54:18 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W18E574B68D5713CD7B57DFC1890@phx.gbl>
References: <98C9C137-C9D3-470E-9B0E-F21EA2A390F9@pixar.com>
	<04613B6A-DFFE-40F3-B1D1-F1680A00F425@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<BAY101-W18E574B68D5713CD7B57DFC1890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1EF0B107-66B5-49C7-8827-B40E95E952FF@balancepointacoustics.com>

On Nov 6, 2007, at 2:29 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:
> One answer, however, is a given: a concert with seven players
> freely improvising, with no particular philosophy, arrangements,
> or performance history as a group, is bound to fail no matter
> how "all-star" the cast.
>
> -George

There is truth in what you are saying, but there does not have to be.  
There have been a few times in the last years where "Company" style   
mix and match concerts have happened and the tutti (9+)  
improvisations were best.
I think often the musicians just are not taking enough responsibility  
when it gets bad like Dave described.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From slusser at pixar.com  Tue Nov  6 10:44:03 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:44:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
In-Reply-To: <1EF0B107-66B5-49C7-8827-B40E95E952FF@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <98C9C137-C9D3-470E-9B0E-F21EA2A390F9@pixar.com>
	<04613B6A-DFFE-40F3-B1D1-F1680A00F425@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<BAY101-W18E574B68D5713CD7B57DFC1890@phx.gbl>
	<1EF0B107-66B5-49C7-8827-B40E95E952FF@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <86DD6983-A8B8-43FB-98FD-3B36832F8FF7@pixar.com>

Before I get banned from Mills Campus, I repeat that I enjoyed the
concert overall, and that my two low register friends were not in
attendance.  Of course I do not believe in enforcing quotas (comes
w/being a W/M) but the percentages are a useful way of measuring
phenomena, and predicting the chance of hearing any solos, duos
or trios during the performance of an ensemble of this size.  Sure,
you also don't have to have solos, duos or trios in a performance of
an ensemble of this size.  It is clearer for the audience to follow the
ideas when there's more variation in density, though.  Damon got
the personal responsibility part right.

On Nov 6, 2007, at 8:54 AM, Damon Smith wrote:

> On Nov 6, 2007, at 2:29 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:
>> One answer, however, is a given: a concert with seven players
>> freely improvising, with no particular philosophy, arrangements,
>> or performance history as a group, is bound to fail no matter
>> how "all-star" the cast.
>>
>> -George
>
> There is truth in what you are saying, but there does not have to be.
> There have been a few times in the last years where "Company" style
> mix and match concerts have happened and the tutti (9+)
> improvisations were best.
> I think often the musicians just are not taking enough responsibility
> when it gets bad like Dave described.
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> New solo project:
> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Nov  6 11:28:22 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:28:22 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
Message-ID: <20071106.112827.6748.207.weaselw@juno.com>

perhaps there's a new sensibility coming from the newer generation of
players in terms of space? I dunno. maybe that will make up for the lack
of melodic and harmonic sensibility i see coming the same generation . .
. 

on the other hand, sometimes this predilection with "space" a little too
contrived in a lot of people's playing, i.e. "i'm going to prove just how
restrained i can be, you cavemusician with your playing all the time." i
think kowald said something to the effect of "in improvisation, there
needs to be more playing and less listening." (clarify please, damon) 
pussyfooting is just pussyfooting, but actively chosen silence and space
can obviously be as dynamic as any sound. 

i know that from a personal standpoint, i love not having to play during
improvisations, but i can only do that when i feel there's something else
going on that warrants my silence. if i think what what's going on begins
to flag, that's usually when i come back in. or i might fuck with
somebody and not come back in and let them fail (haven't done that since
chicago though - i pulled that one on kyle bruckmann once and it was
pretty hilarious). 

i still enjoy dense improvisation, but even then i believe there has to
be levels and degrees within it or it's just a dull roar. (having
mastered the dull roar already, i don't really need to do that much
more.)  

and then, one person's dull roar is another person's nirvana. 

ww 

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:44:03 -0800 David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
writes:
> It is clearer for the audience to follow 
> the ideas when there's more variation in density, though.  Damon got
> the personal responsibility part right.

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Nov  6 11:41:15 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 11:41:15 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic]  underwhelmed @ Mills
Message-ID: <C356035B.22C2B%21grand@21grand.org>

David Slusser wrote:
got the trusty all-star performance instead
of the kind their students are turning in
around here: ones with more respectful
space.  My colleague swore some of the
players never laid out.  I countered that I
had made note that most did - just not
long or often enough.

-- the sound was kinda weird where I was sitting, but I felt that it was
less a "problem" of people not sitting out, but the standard phenomenon when
people are playing with others they're not used to playing with where they
politely play around each other, instead of with each other. Fred was doing
some nice things rhythmically that did feel more like "playing with" rather
than "playing around."

sl


From ingalls at mills.edu  Tue Nov  6 14:26:51 2007
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
In-Reply-To: <20071106.112827.6748.207.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071106.112827.6748.207.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0711061416240.21464@myfiles.mills.edu>


> on the other hand, sometimes this predilection with "space" a little too
> contrived in a lot of people's playing, i.e. "i'm going to prove just how

well if you (as audience or peformer) care about hearing everything that 
is going on,  there is a set limit to what the  brain can handle - it's 
something like only 5-7 separate audio sources.  and then there's 
volume/frequency masking effects on top of that -

From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Nov  6 14:43:16 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:43:16 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] underwhelmed @ Mills
Message-ID: <20071106.144324.6748.231.weaselw@juno.com>

> well if you (as audience or peformer) care about hearing everything 
> that is going on,  there is a set limit to what the  brain can handle -

> it's something like only 5-7 separate audio sources.  and then there's 
> volume/frequency masking effects on top of that -

understood, but surely you'll agree that sometimes enjoyment of abstract
music has to do with resulting masses, not necessarily hearing every
element as a distinctive, separate entity.

ww

From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Nov  6 16:00:28 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:00:28 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] miles davis electric box set
Message-ID: <20071106.160032.6748.243.weaselw@juno.com>

henry kaiser just alerted me to the fact that there's a new boxed set out
of miles davis' 72-74 studio excellence. i'm listening to this thing and
it's KILLING. the remastering is awesomely good, the bonus tracks are
revelatory and i'm glad to have this stuff all in one place for once. the
booklet and packaging are stunning. this is totally worth it. i will play
this more than the ayler box, for sure . . .

i used to buy all those fucked up '70s miles records in the late '80s for
2-3 bucks each. you couldn't give them away back then. how things change.

ww

From disiterate at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  7 08:50:07 2007
From: disiterate at yahoo.com (Ethan Shoshan)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 08:50:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] MIX Festival: Experimental Queer Sound Sun, Nov 18
Message-ID: <518123.61568.qm@web42110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

  20th MIX Festival
NOVEMBER 14-19, 2007
72 Greene St (btw Spring & Broome St)
20 YEARS OF DEDICATION TO DEMANDING EXPERIMENTAL QUEER FILMS
  www.mixnyc.org 
   
  Because of the importance of sound in films, the MIX Film Festival has extended festival programming to include queer experimental performance audio components which includes a live performance sound event, audio installations, and a published compilation CD of new audio works to be given out at the festival.  MIX is working with musicians and artists from across US as well as international artists to present their works in a new exciting dialog alongside experimental filmmakers.    
   
  Sunday, November 18th, 9pm: MIX Closing Gala
  72 Greene St (btw Spring & Broome St) 
Price: $15
Stripped & Exposed: Experiments with Sound
This live performance curation focuses on the experimentation of creating sounds, from altering traditional instruments, temporal recordings, to new technological advances for working with audio.  Each artist uses various methods of understanding fundamental elements of sound to create a shift in our conventional way of hearing; exposing for us, the subtle elements of our own emotions, and the ever shifting understanding of the world around us; exciting and enticing us to explore a world full of possibilities, changes, dreams and desires. Curated by Ethan Shoshan, Approximate Run Time: 90min


  Duo improvisations 
James Coleman (Theremin) & Bill Hsu (computer) 
James Coleman, one of very few free improvisers working with the spatially controlled Theremin, has been described as being able to ?create an entire universe of ever-shifting textures? in performance. Bill Hsu uses a Wacom graphics tablet to control synthesis software, to achieve the nuanced and tactile qualities of acoustic instruments in improvisation. Coleman and Hsu are performing a set of free improvisations. 


  Calling Havona 
Aimee Norwich (hybrid bass/noiseplayer)
The Urantia Book discusses spirituality, science, religion, history, philosophy and destiny and describes Havona as being a place where all sound originates. It is said that in Havona, harmony is the language of this perfectly balanced system of planets; and it is in Havona that sound begins and vibrates through all of existence.  In ?Calling Havona,? Aimee attempts to call on the celestial musical beings of Havona, so that they may show peace and beauty through their perfect sounds. www.aimeenorwich.com 
  
LIVE TRANSMISSION: attention and drawing as time-based performance 
Morgan O'Hara 
The most immediate sign of life is movement. That which is alive, moves. LIVE TRANSMISSIONS render visible normally invisible or fleeting movement patterns through seismograph-like drawing done in real time. The pursuit of vitality carefully observed through human activity is drawn simultaneously with both hands and transmitted to paper. Following closely the intensity of each segment of an activity, the direction of the line as well as the quality of its intensity is transmitted. If a person makes a gentle movement, a delicate line is drawn. If the action followed is forceful or violent, a correspondingly vigorous line is made. This is done simultaneously and as much as possible without ?thinking?. This is not automatic drawing, but its opposite, requiring great concentration and focus. www.morganohara.com  
  
Despite Protestations 
  *V*I*R*G*O* & Charles Cohan 
  A provocative improvisational sound artwork that juxtaposes abstract layers of analog waveforms with incongruous concr?te soundscapes of gay male pornography, gay-bashing scenes from Hollywood films, and gay civil rights protests. In Despite Protestations, veteran sound artists *V*I*R*G*O* and Charles Cohen focus on the omnipresent tension between sex, politics, and violence. Recalling the random juxtaposit