From djcypod at gmail.com  Mon Oct  1 10:26:01 2007
From: djcypod at gmail.com (Beau Casey)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:26:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 6 second break
Message-ID: <fc5507fa0710011026l5f78f52ejd86e83ac98d2b6ac@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Oct  1 13:03:17 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:03:17 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 6 second break
In-Reply-To: <fc5507fa0710011026l5f78f52ejd86e83ac98d2b6ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fc5507fa0710011026l5f78f52ejd86e83ac98d2b6ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7054CAAB-9866-4917-88D5-487F18B8EC85@pixar.com>

On Oct 1, 2007, at 10:26 AM, Beau Casey wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

Excellent study by Nate Harrison.
Loved the part about the "fetishization and
self-indulgence" of the "chin stroking"
crowd...also the end quote from a federal
copyright ruling, "over protecting intellectual
property is as harmful as under protecting it."
...(we all) benefit from a rich public  domain."

From tim at perkis.com  Mon Oct  1 15:16:06 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:16:06 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron,
	but with 8-track cassettes
Message-ID: <470171A6.9090203@perkis.com>

http://www.believermag.com/issues/200706/?read=article_collins

From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Oct  1 15:26:49 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:26:49 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron,
	but with 8-track cassettes
Message-ID: <20071001.152653.4412.191.weaselw@juno.com>

gotta say that these guerrilla mellotrons miss part of the charm of the
original - i.e. the actual attack on the beginnings of the tapes. most of
these improvised mellotrons seem to operate from the premise of
constantly rolling loops which are keyed on while running in progress.
it's not bad, but the attack just isn't there. 

there are excellent software versions of the mellotron - an old akai
sample disk version and now the killer m-tron front end version. i use
the m-tron all the friggin' time . . . it features prominently on several
tracks of the upcoming flying luttenbachers album out in november.

i always wanted access to a mellotron since i was a teenager and i praise
technology for letting me finally plunder its sonic riches without all
the cost, repairs and trouble! at one point about a decade ago zeek sheck
had a borrowed, bonafide chamberlain at her disposal and i got to do some
recording with it . . . awesome sounding instrument. 

ww 

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:16:06 -0700 Tim Perkis <tim at perkis.com> writes:
> http://www.believermag.com/issues/200706/?read=article_collins

 

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  1 17:07:49 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:07:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron,
	but with 8-track cassettes
Message-ID: <622050.71735.qm@web50302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I have a FULL sampled melotron on CD (individual keys every key sampled until the tape runs out...) which reminds me, that it's about time to re-master the CD that it's on so that I don't loose it...Although the one thing that is missing is TRUE POLYPHONY!!! I don't know what has stopped someone from making a computer board that can handle a dozen sound cards (even the 16 bit ones that we think of today as crappy would blow peoples minds if they were used with like 12 in parallel)...All of the modern synths (past the days of the Synclavier) follow the single processor mentality, which inevitably leads to voices cutting out, and latency, no matter how fast the processor is...maybe it's time for EMU to make one (Amar?)...

lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: tim at perkis.com; newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 3:26:49 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron, but with 8-track cassettes


gotta say that these guerrilla mellotrons miss part of the charm of the
original - i.e. the actual attack on the beginnings of the tapes. most of
these improvised mellotrons seem to operate from the premise of
constantly rolling loops which are keyed on while running in progress.
it's not bad, but the attack just isn't there. 

there are excellent software versions of the mellotron - an old akai
sample disk version and now the killer m-tron front end version. i use
the m-tron all the friggin' time . . . it features prominently on several
tracks of the upcoming flying luttenbachers album out in november.

i always wanted access to a mellotron since i was a teenager and i praise
technology for letting me finally plunder its sonic riches without all
the cost, repairs and trouble! at one point about a decade ago zeek sheck
had a borrowed, bonafide chamberlain at her disposal and i got to do some
recording with it . . . awesome sounding instrument. 

ww 

On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:16:06 -0700 Tim Perkis <tim at perkis.com> writes:
> http://www.believermag.com/issues/200706/?read=article_collins


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Oct  1 21:05:22 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:05:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusicEvents Digest, Vol 18, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1191297602.23125.newmusicevents@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <C3271192.216BB%21grand@21grand.org>

Damn you matt ingalls, we have a show at 21 Grand that night, and I so
wanted to see 
"??&??'j[???)???^??j??q?+ey???/??.(!??????)+?y22?8b?????y???"

Are they playing again somewhere soon?

sl

> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:45:26 -0700
> From: matt <matt at sfsound.org>

> N???r???e?'^
> [??:    ?+ky????    ??&??'j[???)???&??/??.(!??????)+?y22?8^?W?)e?'^
> [?????m?????kz?? 
??&??'j[???)???^??j??q?+ey???/??.(!??????)+?y22?8b?????y???
> w?}?"??z{]?{f???8^=???????n??k??)?v&????
??&??'j[???)????"?b?Z??k?????????
> ???Yl??????????????`?????
???x?u????tZ?H?{??^???????????j?h???r??i?^??
> ??+????-??!??z??????v)???+u?????z??~?????y?q????e????)?v("??]??"?
b??',jwi
> ?????8^????+.j[0?YmjG?v??????z???q???????a?x-??g????y??{??j?rz??}?m?)?????
> ?)y???]???????y???]jw??????]?^??????+????????^?????????N?m???????'m?t
> ??&??'j[????+!y??
> ??????n?$?w????z??????"???*Z?qkjwjwH??r??l???
??????-?g?~???j[ay?^???-???a
> z??z{e?????????x?&????+~??v)??z???9Pk)??????y???r?'??u???zg?m??I?????
> ???????y??)?(?V????y???????r??h???????v)?a?|???m?t????W??????
o?p????N)
> ?z???????????w?z?r????~??w?????z????~)f&?z-?????????[?z??em??????(v???jz
> ?????v????????????h?????jwb??+????i????jk????v)???Ym???????e???)??!?(b????????
> +?????th??j*?aN????????)???????Z??????z??~???v????^w????lj??'?j??f????'
> ???1?+??)?????vh?p????w?????
?????g?????m??Q??k????[v???????w?????j?r????
> ;?5???{?!??M5??
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Events
> NewMusicEvents at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusicevents
> 
> 
> End of NewMusicEvents Digest, Vol 18, Issue 1
> *********************************************


From zjaffee at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  2 11:52:05 2007
From: zjaffee at yahoo.com (Zac Jaffee)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Announcing the Climate Theater Music Box
Message-ID: <848627.51557.qm@web51503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear New Music Community,

I'm very proud to announce a new music series at the
Climate Theater in San Francisco. Our first night is
in two weeks and then continues every Tuesday evening
(major holidays excluded). I'll only be posting shows
that are relevant to this list, but if you would like
to be on the mailing list for all future shows, please
email me at zjaffee at yahoo.com. 

Best,
Zac Jaffee

The Climate Music Box is a new music series for
audiences who like to listen. Murmuring electronics to
blaring saxophones, local and international artists,
experimental, jazz, folk forms, and just good old
noise in the intimate setting of the Climate Theater.

Tuesday, October 16: 
8:00 PM  
Luke Westbrook Tree+O
westbrookmusic.net
myspace.com/lukewestbrooktrio

9:30PM
Rubber City
David Slusser-Leader, Composer, Saxophones
Phillip Greenlief- Saxophones
Chris Ackerman - Drums
Richard Saunders - Bass

Climate Theater Music Box Series
285 9th St (at Folsom), San Francisco
$7-$12 sliding scale 
415-263-0830
http://climatetheater.com
myspace.com/climatetheatermusicbox


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Tue Oct  2 12:18:04 2007
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:18:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] DM 4 line 6
References: <470171A6.9090203@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c80528$f5480e30$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

Does anyone have a Line 6 DM 4 Distortion Pedal I can try for 15 minutes? 
Please contact me off list. Thanks, David

dmichalak at sbcglobal.net 


From grobair at emusician.com  Tue Oct  2 13:03:00 2007
From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:03:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Radiohead says pay what you want for their music
Message-ID: <C327F204.651B%grobair@emusician.com>

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/10/01/radiohead_album/


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Oct  3 15:14:13 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:14:13 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <6D189044-E7C3-4BDB-B9A0-8A80EBDBFBB2@balancepointacoustics.com>

http://oaklandmagazine.com/media/Oakland-Magazine/October-2007/The- 
Evolution-Starts-Now/

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From weaselw at juno.com  Wed Oct  3 15:36:39 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:36:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071003.153640.1176.50.weaselw@juno.com>

fred frith says in this article: "The local scene, especially the local
improvising scene, is still heavily male-dominated . . ."

ESPECIALLY the improvised music scene? ugh. i beg to differ. if i'm going
to be pressed for evidence, i will proffer statistics, but i find having
to prove that point to be a waste of my time because it's so obvious.
there have been women musicians on pretty much every free music gig i can
remember playing here. if you want to see what a truly male-dominated
improvised music scene looks like, check out chicago some time. 

with all respect, methinks mr. frith does not make any particular scene
very often around here so he really wouldn't know. the only performances
i've seen him at in the last four years have been his own! 

ww

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 15:59:27 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <677150.28755.qm@web55602.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Here is an unbroken link to a surprisingly in depth article. It is nice to see the love going to Mills.

http://oaklandmagazine.com/media/Oakland-Magazine/October-2007/The-Evolution-Starts-Now/

 
Jon Raskin

----- Original Message ----
From: Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 3:14:13 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article

http://oaklandmagazine.com/media/Oakland-Magazine/October-2007/The-Evolution-Starts-Now/


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic




From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 16:11:29 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:11:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <211720.70803.qm@web55605.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Statistics from the article about mills
45 men mentioned in the article versus 20 women
 
Jon Raskin

----- Original Message ----
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 3:36:39 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Mills article

fred frith says in this article: "The local scene, especially the local
improvising scene, is still heavily male-dominated . . ."

ESPECIALLY the improvised music scene? ugh. i beg to differ. if i'm going
to be pressed for evidence, i will proffer statistics, but i find having
to prove that point to be a waste of my time because it's so obvious.
there have been women musicians on pretty much every free music gig i can
remember playing here. if you want to see what a truly male-dominated
improvised music scene looks like, check out chicago some time. 

with all respect, methinks mr. frith does not make any particular scene
very often around here so he really wouldn't know. the only performances
i've seen him at in the last four years have been his own! 

ww
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic




From weaselw at juno.com  Wed Oct  3 16:18:12 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:18:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071003.161818.1176.54.weaselw@juno.com>

ha ha ha. he should have said that "the local press about the improvised
music scene in oakland magazine is male dominated". that would be an
accurate statement. 

i'm all about accuracy!

or am i? 

ww
 
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Jon Raskin <jon_raskin at yahoo.com>
writes:
> Statistics from the article about mills
> 45 men mentioned in the article versus 20 women
>  
> Jon Raskin

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  3 17:33:36 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:33:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] artist housing
In-Reply-To: <20071003.161818.1176.54.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071003.161818.1176.54.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W4241FA9B37DD18D29922A5C1A80@phx.gbl>



Here's the pitch for a subsidized artist's housing
project that I've helped develop in West Oakland.
Direct any questions to me off-list, or contact the
Northern California Land Trust directly.

-George 



Announcing The Oakland Noodle Factory
1255 26th Street, West Oakland
http://www.oaklandnoodlefactory.org/

 
Greetings,


This is an exciting opportunity to join the Northern California Land Trust (NCLT) in co-creating a cutting edge artist/artisan work/live project with a caf? and arts center we are developing in West Oakland by purchasing one of the remaining PERMANENTLY-AFFORDABLE CONDOMINIUM WORK/LIVE UNITS for low-income artists.  The units on the 1st floor are sold!  We are now accepting Second Round Applications for the beautiful units on the 2nd floor. ACT NOW! OCTOBER 30, 2007 is the deadline for receiving applications for the 2nd round of applications.

After construction is completed in Winter 2007/2008, this mixed-use artisan and cultural arts facility will house 11 work/live units for working artists/artisans; a rehearsal studio and a public events space for performance / music arts totaling ~2500 sq. ft.; and a cafe / lobby area.  An Advisory Board drawn from the local performing, visual arts, and artisan community is advising the project to ensure that the reconstructed arts space starts life as an integral part of the Bay Area arts community.


As part of the NCLT's commitment to sustainable development, the rehab is being conducted as a green remodel using LEED guidelines with target of a Silver rating. Features of the 2nd Floor units include:

?	Ceiling heights up to 20 ft.
?	Private balcony
?	Loft space
?	Solar panels will provide up to 75% of the electricity and hot water needs
?	Tile floors in bathroom, natural linoleum in kitchens, continuous heavy-duty flooring in work-live space
?	Radiant floor heating
?	Granite countertops, Kohler bath and kitchen fixtures
?	Natural ventilation with individual exhaust systems
?	Ultra energy efficient (Energy Star) laundry appliances (washer/dryer), heat and hot water
?	Range in size between 900-1,250 square feet, and 1 market rate unit of 1800 square feet  
?	Net sales prices range from $175,000* to $275,000* (*after subtracting down payment assistance subsidies of up to $135,000)
?	Maximum Income requirements vary between 60% and 110% of AMI depending on unit

?	Up to ~$135,000 per household in first-time homebuyer assistance may be available depending on unit and household. (Assistance is income-dependent and is a combination of grants and no to low-interest deferred loans).


The Noodle Factory is an exciting leap forward in addressing the chronic shortage of viable arts and artisan work and performance space in the East Bay. Not only will the project provide a permanent venue, but it will also provide work/live units that are permanently affordable condominium units located in an area where real workspace is a viable and important part of the neighborhood. Unlike open-market ?live/work? lofts, which essentially function as luxury condos, the Noodle Factory units will be permanently affordable and will include working artist restrictions to ensure that future generations of artists will also be able to own their workspace, control their own livelihood, and thus create a stable nexus for the arts and artisan community.


IMPORTANT DATES TO MARK IN YOUR CALENDAR:



?	October 18, 2007 @ 6:30-8:00 p.m. - Open House at the Noodle Factory 
?	October 30, 2007--Application Deadline. Interested applicants must submit a completed application package (available at www.oaklandnoodlefactory.org), including an artistic portfolio and detailed financial data. NCLT will review the portfolio for artistic merit and evidence of serious commitment to the arts; successful applicants will then be reviewed for income & household size eligibility (for subsidized units). 

?	November 3 , 2007-- Portfolio review and jurying. Only completed applications will be reviewed by the jury panel.

?	November 1, 2007 @ 6:30-8:00 pm -- Open House at the Noodle Factory

?	November 6 & 7, 2007 (afternoon/evening) -- Interviews of finalists

?	November 8, 2007 -- Selection of Buyers
by Selection Committee

?	November 13, 2007 -- Units offered to selected applicants

?	December 3, 2007 -- Deadline to sign purchase agreements



Selection criteria for the Oakland Noodle Factory residents will depend upon: 

1) A financial review; 

2) Quality of work represented in portfolio and CV materials; and

3) Interest in and ability to contribute to the Noodle Factory Community. 


For an application:
http://oaklandnoodlefactory.org/



Or Contact the NCLT for an application at (510) 548-7878 or email: onf.info at nclt.org  
Or by mail:	Homeownership Opportunities
		Northern California Land Trust
		3122 Shattuck Avenue
		Berkeley, CA 94705

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 17:46:41 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:46:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] artist housing
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W4241FA9B37DD18D29922A5C1A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <442525.50535.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Makes me cry to see "$175,000 to $275,000" units for
"low income artists"

I couldn'y afford this even if i started prostituting
myself on the side (and I already have a full-tim day
job which pays relatively well).

sigh, i guess my generation will just have to give up
the dream of owning anything.....

lance

P.S. - But on the plus side, I am happy to see things
like this happening in west oakland. just wish more
affordable rental spaces were going in rather than
lots of condos.

--- George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Here's the pitch for a subsidized artist's housing
> project that I've helped develop in West Oakland.
> Direct any questions to me off-list, or contact the
> Northern California Land Trust directly.



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/

From bthrew at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 18:09:29 2007
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:09:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron,
	but with 8-track cassettes
In-Reply-To: <622050.71735.qm@web50302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <622050.71735.qm@web50302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B45184E3-F600-4993-B2B2-338ED4070D97@gmail.com>

There is no more EMU.

b

On Oct 1, 2007, at 5:07 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

> I have a FULL sampled melotron on CD (individual keys every key  
> sampled until the tape runs out...) which reminds me, that it's  
> about time to re-master the CD that it's on so that I don't loose  
> it...Although the one thing that is missing is TRUE POLYPHONY!!! I  
> don't know what has stopped someone from making a computer board  
> that can handle a dozen sound cards (even the 16 bit ones that we  
> think of today as crappy would blow peoples minds if they were used  
> with like 12 in parallel)...All of the modern synths (past the days  
> of the Synclavier) follow the single processor mentality, which  
> inevitably leads to voices cutting out, and latency, no matter how  
> fast the processor is...maybe it's time for EMU to make one (Amar?)...
>
> lettuce
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
> To: tim at perkis.com; newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 3:26:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a  
> mellotron, but with 8-track cassettes
>
>
> gotta say that these guerrilla mellotrons miss part of the charm of  
> the
> original - i.e. the actual attack on the beginnings of the tapes.  
> most of
> these improvised mellotrons seem to operate from the premise of
> constantly rolling loops which are keyed on while running in progress.
> it's not bad, but the attack just isn't there.
>
> there are excellent software versions of the mellotron - an old akai
> sample disk version and now the killer m-tron front end version. i use
> the m-tron all the friggin' time . . . it features prominently on  
> several
> tracks of the upcoming flying luttenbachers album out in november.
>
> i always wanted access to a mellotron since i was a teenager and i  
> praise
> technology for letting me finally plunder its sonic riches without all
> the cost, repairs and trouble! at one point about a decade ago zeek  
> sheck
> had a borrowed, bonafide chamberlain at her disposal and i got to  
> do some
> recording with it . . . awesome sounding instrument.
>
> ww
>
> On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:16:06 -0700 Tim Perkis <tim at perkis.com> writes:
>> http://www.believermag.com/issues/200706/?read=article_collins
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com




From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  3 21:41:21 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:41:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] artist housing
In-Reply-To: <442525.50535.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY101-W4241FA9B37DD18D29922A5C1A80@phx.gbl>
	<442525.50535.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W262A86BC1C8C10F6BA73DAC1A80@phx.gbl>



lance wrote:

> just wish more affordable rental spaces were going in rather than
> lots of condos.

Well, I completely agree. However, there's a major financial issue 
which prevents that - where does the money come from? In order
for an organization to build housing stock, it needs a lot
of money, much of which usually comes from short-term construction
loans. This means that the units need to be sold in order to
pay back the loans - rent won't cover it. This is where large
institutions, like governments, need to get involved. They
have the financial wherewithal to supply rental units. Needless
to say, there are currently no plans for any local governments
to make affordable rental units available for 'low-income' artists.

-George




_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Wed Oct  3 21:50:50 2007
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:50:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <20071003.153640.1176.50.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071003.153640.1176.50.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0710032150i3a2a92efo4bc53a7f5d3d4784@mail.gmail.com>

Well, yes and no. I'd say at the moment slightly more than half the
musicians I encounter frequently in this scene are women, but most of
the women are either current Mills students or recent graduates.

On 10/3/07, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
> fred frith says in this article: "The local scene, especially the local
> improvising scene, is still heavily male-dominated . . ."
>
> ESPECIALLY the improvised music scene? ugh. i beg to differ. if i'm going
> to be pressed for evidence, i will proffer statistics, but i find having
> to prove that point to be a waste of my time because it's so obvious.
> there have been women musicians on pretty much every free music gig i can
> remember playing here. if you want to see what a truly male-dominated
> improvised music scene looks like, check out chicago some time.
>
> with all respect, methinks mr. frith does not make any particular scene
> very often around here so he really wouldn't know. the only performances
> i've seen him at in the last four years have been his own!
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Oct  3 21:55:01 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:55:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] artist housing
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W262A86BC1C8C10F6BA73DAC1A80@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-W4241FA9B37DD18D29922A5C1A80@phx.gbl>
	<442525.50535.qm@web51605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BAY101-W262A86BC1C8C10F6BA73DAC1A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <14055264-F1D1-4934-A0D1-57E3CF1F4F77@balancepointacoustics.com>

If you pay $1000 a month for 10 years for a crappy apt. which most  
"poor artists" have to, that is $120,000, so you can see those  
numbers working out.

On Oct 3, 2007, at 9:41 PM, George Cremaschi wrote:

>
>
> lance wrote:
>
>> just wish more affordable rental spaces were going in rather than
>> lots of condos.
>
> Well, I completely agree. However, there's a major financial issue
> which prevents that - where does the money come from? In order
> for an organization to build housing stock, it needs a lot
> of money, much of which usually comes from short-term construction
> loans. This means that the units need to be sold in order to
> pay back the loans - rent won't cover it. This is where large
> institutions, like governments, need to get involved. They
> have the financial wherewithal to supply rental units. Needless
> to say, there are currently no plans for any local governments
> to make affordable rental units available for 'low-income' artists.
>
> -George
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at  
> last.  Get it now.
> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx? 
> pid=CL100626971033
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Oct  3 22:12:28 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:12:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0710032150i3a2a92efo4bc53a7f5d3d4784@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071003.153640.1176.50.weaselw@juno.com>
	<c70e517b0710032150i3a2a92efo4bc53a7f5d3d4784@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34F7041F-4BD1-4A32-BD7B-8C279330FA41@balancepointacoustics.com>

I think it is lower than that, men still out number women. We do seem  
to have a lot more women involved than other scenes where sausage  
parties seem to be the norm, certainly thanks to Mills.
Most bills I am on or go to see have women on them, while that is a  
step in right direction.
International improvisors like like Birgit and Biggi seems to make it  
out once a year or so, and that is great.

On Oct 3, 2007, at 9:50 PM, Matt Davignon wrote:

> Well, yes and no. I'd say at the moment slightly more than half the
> musicians I encounter frequently in this scene are women, but most of
> the women are either current Mills students or recent graduates.
>
> On 10/3/07, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
>> fred frith says in this article: "The local scene, especially the  
>> local
>> improvising scene, is still heavily male-dominated . . ."
>>
>> ESPECIALLY the improvised music scene? ugh. i beg to differ. if  
>> i'm going
>> to be pressed for evidence, i will proffer statistics, but i find  
>> having
>> to prove that point to be a waste of my time because it's so obvious.
>> there have been women musicians on pretty much every free music  
>> gig i can
>> remember playing here. if you want to see what a truly male-dominated
>> improvised music scene looks like, check out chicago some time.
>>
>> with all respect, methinks mr. frith does not make any particular  
>> scene
>> very often around here so he really wouldn't know. the only  
>> performances
>> i've seen him at in the last four years have been his own!
>>
>> ww
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From weaselw at juno.com  Wed Oct  3 22:21:50 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:21:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071003.222204.1176.69.weaselw@juno.com>

 On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:12:28 -0700 Damon Smith
<Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> writes:
> I think it is lower than that, men still out number women. 

well so what! saying that men outnumbering women in the field of
basketweaving does not equal men "dominating" basketweaving. i have a
problem with the semantics of what fred is saying. it implies that
somehow women have no significant footing PARTICULARLY in the improvised
music scene here. that's bullshit, and honestly that's a little insulting
to the women who actually work in the scene. 

ww

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  3 22:59:01 2007
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] artist housing
In-Reply-To: <14055264-F1D1-4934-A0D1-57E3CF1F4F77@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <358586.39745.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> If you pay $1000 a month for 10 years for a crappy
> apt. which most
> "poor artists" have to, that is $120,000, so you can
> see those
> numbers working out.

couple of key differences. interest on a home loan
usually doubles the price over the typical life of a
mortage (with current interests rates) which isn't 10
years but usually 20 or 30 (and som fifty year
mortages these days!?). in the end, your math still
works, but is over a much longer period.

also, you have to make enough money and have enough
good credit to convince someone to loan you the money.
I alas, do not make enough to get a loan big enough to
pay for anything in the bay area.

lance


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Oct  4 00:48:09 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:48:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] HELP! I need places for two NY musicians to stay this
	weekend
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W4241FA9B37DD18D29922A5C1A80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000b01c8065a$e90bb120$4001a8c0@PG>

Hey!

I'm putting up Steve Swell's quartet this weekend and it turns out I
have to house two guys I wasn't intending on housing. Can someone help
me out with a comfy bed (or futon or, or...something reasonably
comfortable) for two musicians this weekend (Saturday and Sunday
nights?). Among other possible benefits, you can come to our show at
1510 on Sunday night for free.

Email me off list or give me a shout:
pgsaxo at pacbell.net
510-653-8994

Cheers,
PG



Phillip Greenlief
c/o Evander Music
PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA
94623-9991
www.evandermusic.com


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Oct  4 10:06:42 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:06:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Mills article
Message-ID: <C32A6BB2.21866%21grand@21grand.org>

I'd like to avoid the issue of attendance at improv shows, and who I see
regularly in the audience versus who I only see at shows they are playing,
though I'll have to give a pass to Mr. Greenlief, as he seems to be playing
somewhere almost every night.

As far the local scene being male-dominated ... we've had this discussion
before, at least twice in a little over a year. Not that 21 Grand is the
entirety of the local improv scene, but as far as statistics go, men do
outnumber women as performers. In the large ensemble performances, one sees
an even larger gender disparity. This, to me, is evidence for my theory that
as far as gigs go, most of the women perform more than a good number of the
men. 

But I agree, with Mr. Walter, and I think the word "dominated" implies
something about power and hierarchy that I don't think is quite accurate at
this point, historical "boys club" business notwithstanding.

Apologies to Mr. Greenlief, for appropriating, but my sense of the hierarchy
of the local scene (if there is one) is that those at the bottom of the
totem pole are men, in general, non-Mills affiliated men, and that if one
were to theoretically average the positions of each gender on this
theoretical totem pole, the position of women would be equal to or higher
than those of men, though there are more men at the top than women.

sl


From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Oct  4 11:00:31 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:00:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071004.110144.1176.101.weaselw@juno.com>

> I'd like to avoid the issue of attendance at improv shows, and who I 
> see regularly in the audience versus who I only see at shows they are 
> playing, though I'll have to give a pass to Mr. Greenlief, as he seems
to be 
> playing somewhere almost every night.

my point is that i don't think fred frith really knows what's going on.
part of why he doesn't is because he just doesn't really go to many gigs,
period from what i can tell. he doesn't really seem to know all that much
about what's happening in the local improvising "scene". i stand by this
accusation until proven otherwise, by you or fred or anybody else. go
ahead, prove me wrong!

FYI, i play about 50-60  improvised music shows a year around here (i
actually just counted them), which means I ATTEND AT LEAST 50-60
IMPROVISED MUSIC EVENTS PER YEAR.  i know and/or watch the other
musicians bills with me and i book some or all of them too, energy and
time permitted. since i have lots of competition for the attention of
live music consumers, i tend to watch the listings to see who is playing
and i see PLENTY of women getting gigs and playing in the scene. go look
at the bay improviser calendar for yourselves. shit, at times somebody
like mary clare brzytwa seems to get more improv gigs than i do, so does
that mean she's "dominating" the scene?

> Apologies to Mr. Greenlief, for appropriating, but my sense of the 
> hierarchy of the local scene (if there is one) is that those at the
bottom of 
> the totem pole are men, in general, non-Mills affiliated men, and that 
> if one were to theoretically average the positions of each gender on
this
> theoretical totem pole, the position of women would be equal to or 
> higher than those of men, though there are more men at the top than
women.

thank you for saying this. that's the no-brainer i'm trying to get at and
the reason why mr. frith's statement rubbed me the wrong way. it's so
fuckin' binary when the reality is not.

ww

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Oct  4 11:02:51 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:02:51 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <C32A6BB2.21866%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <000001c806b0$c823f6b0$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article

I'd like to avoid the issue of attendance at improv shows, and who I see
regularly in the audience versus who I only see at shows they are
playing,
though I'll have to give a pass to Mr. Greenlief, as he seems to be
playing
somewhere almost every night.

PG:
Goodness, am I being profiled as one of the male musicians that keep
women sublimated by playing somewhere every night?  I certainly hope
not! 

I don't know. In the bay area, I see women and men in the audiences.
Just down the road in Sacramento, it's a noticeably different
environment. The majority of the listeners out there are male. I've been
playing out there a lot over the past 6 months and I keep noticing that.

First off, I play music because I love to play music. I'm not playing
because I want to be famous: that isn't going to happen, and being
famous would suck as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't go to Top Dog late
at night without being hassled by fans!

I'm not playing because I want to make a lot of money. I doubt that I
have to explain that one.
 
I play because I like the communion that happens with the people I play
with. I love making sounds, I love struggling with the possibilities
that music has to offer. I'm always interested to see "how it's going to
turn out". 

So it really doesn't matter to me who is on the other end of that
experiment. I don't' care if it's a man or a woman. It could be a coyote
for all I care, if I could get a coyote to play the saxophone, I'd be
interested to hear what s/he had to say...

I've tried to get past all my possible prejudices around what urges me
to call someone to play. Many years ago I pushed aside the idea that I
should only be playing with people who are better than I am, just so I
could get better.

Some people could view that (from the outside) as star fucking. I also
know that learning goes both ways, and I wanted to play with a more
diverse group of musicians. I now realize (ah, the fragments of wisdom
that arrive sometime too late in life!) that I learn from everyone I
play with, regardless of their ability (and certainly regardless of
their gender!).

Sarah's right, we have talked about this in the past year. I can't help
but think it's a matter of interest (on the part of women - are women
interested in improvised music? - apparently not on a large-scale level,
but more and more great women musicians seem to be popping up - so
hopefully that is changing - I've said this before and so have others on
this list - life is so much more rich when there is real diversity in
the construct). 

I play with men and women. I probably play with more men, because there
are more men to call to play then there are women. I'm glad that Mills
College is around, because it attracts a lot of great women musicians to
the bay area. Hopefully they stick around after they graduate, but if
not, then that's good too - they go back to where they came from or go
somewhere else and the world has more great women musicians.

Finally, I don't know, kidz - this is kind of an absurd conversation. Of
all places, I think the SF Bay Area is more "healthier" in this regard
than some of the other cities. I think the environment is MUCH better
than it was when I first moved here in the late 70's. Then it really was
dominated by men. As society at large changes, so doth the music
communities. The climate in America in general is less sexist than it
was 30 years ago. I'm not as familiar with the scene in LA, for example,
as I used to be, but it seems to me that men outnumber women on the
creative music scene down there much more than here or San Diego or
Seattle or Portland...if there are other meccas for new music on the
west coast, I'm not aware of the population breakdown.


From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 11:06:39 2007
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:06:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <20071004.110144.1176.101.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071004.110144.1176.101.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0710041106o7410337dp3539f4dfd6e4be87@mail.gmail.com>

come on, Fred is busy, he doesn't have the time and energy to go to every
dink-ass gig around here. He's seen a lot of it before, I am sure.

On 10/4/07, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd like to avoid the issue of attendance at improv shows, and who I
> > see regularly in the audience versus who I only see at shows they are
> > playing, though I'll have to give a pass to Mr. Greenlief, as he seems
> to be
> > playing somewhere almost every night.
>
> my point is that i don't think fred frith really knows what's going on.
> part of why he doesn't is because he just doesn't really go to many gigs,
> period from what i can tell. he doesn't really seem to know all that much
> about what's happening in the local improvising "scene". i stand by this
> accusation until proven otherwise, by you or fred or anybody else. go
> ahead, prove me wrong!
>
> FYI, i play about 50-60  improvised music shows a year around here (i
> actually just counted them), which means I ATTEND AT LEAST 50-60
> IMPROVISED MUSIC EVENTS PER YEAR.  i know and/or watch the other
> musicians bills with me and i book some or all of them too, energy and
> time permitted. since i have lots of competition for the attention of
> live music consumers, i tend to watch the listings to see who is playing
> and i see PLENTY of women getting gigs and playing in the scene. go look
> at the bay improviser calendar for yourselves. shit, at times somebody
> like mary clare brzytwa seems to get more improv gigs than i do, so does
> that mean she's "dominating" the scene?
>
> > Apologies to Mr. Greenlief, for appropriating, but my sense of the
> > hierarchy of the local scene (if there is one) is that those at the
> bottom of
> > the totem pole are men, in general, non-Mills affiliated men, and that
> > if one were to theoretically average the positions of each gender on
> this
> > theoretical totem pole, the position of women would be equal to or
> > higher than those of men, though there are more men at the top than
> women.
>
> thank you for saying this. that's the no-brainer i'm trying to get at and
> the reason why mr. frith's statement rubbed me the wrong way. it's so
> fuckin' binary when the reality is not.
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Oct  4 11:09:54 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:09:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071004.110957.1176.109.weaselw@juno.com>

> Finally, I don't know, kidz - this is kind of an absurd conversation.

of course. it's sad that i have to waste my time defending this point,
but as long as people (who are men?) keep coming along and kicking up
this tired gender-issue duststorm ("men are dominating the scene - they
are bad!"), i will have to keep saying I DON"T AGREE.

ww

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Oct  4 11:11:54 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:11:54 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071004.111155.1176.110.weaselw@juno.com>

which is entirely not on point, kristin.

ww
 
On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:06:39 -0700 "kristin miltner"
<miltnerunit at gmail.com> writes:
> come on, Fred is busy, he doesn't have the time and energy to go to 
> every
> dink-ass gig around here. He's seen a lot of it before, I am sure.

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Oct  4 11:35:11 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:35:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071004.113513.1176.111.weaselw@juno.com>

okay, okay. i'm a total idiot. how dare i disagree with anyone. i clearly
have no point. i'll go back to playing with my poop in the attic now. 

yes, fred frith is totally correct: men "especially dominate the
improvised music scene in the bay area". it's a horrible, awful milieu we
have here and since fred and i are both men, we are to blame. please
stone any or all improvising men with rocks and garbage the next time you
see us. we deserve it. 

i'm done talking about this. i can't believe i'm being taken to task on
this.

here's a statement: the circus is dominated by clowns. 

ww 

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Oct  4 11:41:04 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:41:04 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Mills article
Message-ID: <C32A81D0.21884%21grand@21grand.org>

Phillip wrote:
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article

I'd like to avoid the issue of attendance at improv shows, and who I see
regularly in the audience versus who I only see at shows they are
playing,
though I'll have to give a pass to Mr. Greenlief, as he seems to be
playing
somewhere almost every night.

PG:
Goodness, am I being profiled as one of the male musicians that keep
women sublimated by playing somewhere every night?  I certainly hope
not! 

SL: No, I brought up your prolificity as an example of someone who is an
infrequent audience member at improv gigs because you are performing in so
many of them.  The issue was infrequent attendance at gigs (other than one's
own) and whether an infrequent attendee could accurately say whether the
local scene is male-dominated or not.



From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Oct  4 11:56:56 2007
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:56:56 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <20071004.113513.1176.111.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071004.113513.1176.111.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <F50F3B32-8D49-4D9B-85B2-485F9FC61184@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:35 AM, weasel walter wrote:

> here's a statement: the circus is dominated by clowns.

So is the improv scene.


Bad joke, sorry couldn't resist . . . 

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Oct  4 12:00:47 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:00:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Mills article
Message-ID: <C32A866F.2188D%21grand@21grand.org>

the marvelous magical Matthew Goodheart goofed:
On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:35 AM, weasel walter wrote:

> here's a statement: the circus is dominated by clowns.

So is the improv scene.


Bad joke, sorry couldn't resist . .


- Actually the circus seems to be dominated by Siegfried and Roy who have
mullets ... that tiger was clearly striking a blow to end mullet-domination
of the circus.

sl


From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  4 12:48:53 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <309138.80995.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the review.  I saw that book at the store a
couple weeks back.  It looked interesting but
ultimately I didn't buy it b/c it looked like most of
the musical references made were to pop music.  I
wasn't sure if I would be able to translate this into
information that would be useful for me.

Also, I'm not sure I buy your equation of textural
innovation in pop music to textural innovation in
improvised music, since per your example in the first
instance, it seems to be an attempt to fill in a gap
left by the dumbing-down of popular music, were in the
case of later seems to be dues to a conscious move
away from idiomatic references.

P.s. Thanks to Suki for another nice looking edition
of the calendar.

-jacob
 



Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 

From michaelz at zoka.com  Thu Oct  4 13:00:22 2007
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:00:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <000001c806b0$c823f6b0$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <000001c806b0$c823f6b0$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <p0602044cc32af4d6a217@[192.168.0.5]>

On 10/4/07, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

>So it really doesn't matter to me who is on the other end of that
>experiment. I don't' care if it's a man or a woman. It could be a coyote
>for all I care, if I could get a coyote to play the saxophone, I'd be
>interested to hear what s/he had to say...

He (for Coyote is usually male) would probably try to trick you into 
selling your tenor to him for cheap.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_(mythology)>

Or maybe he'd ask for your help in catching the Road Runner.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wile_E._Coyote_and_Road_Runner>

MZ




--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From michaelz at zoka.com  Thu Oct  4 13:02:23 2007
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:02:23 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <20071004.113513.1176.111.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071004.113513.1176.111.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <p0602044dc32af659fd06@[192.168.0.5]>

On 10/4/07, weasel walter wrote:

>here's a statement: the circus is dominated by clowns.

But only the dominant clowns.

Like Ouchy (an Oakland resident!):

<http://www.ouchytheclown.com/prodom.shtml>

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From slusser at pixar.com  Thu Oct  4 13:14:08 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:14:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <p0602044dc32af659fd06@[192.168.0.5]>
References: <20071004.113513.1176.111.weaselw@juno.com>
	<p0602044dc32af659fd06@[192.168.0.5]>
Message-ID: <9FF2B104-1B62-4C4A-98CD-0235CF57CCF8@pixar.com>

On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:02 PM, Michael Zelner wrote:

> On 10/4/07, weasel walter wrote:
>
>> here's a statement: the circus is dominated by clowns.
>
> But only the dominant clowns.
>
> Like Ouchy (an Oakland resident!):
>
> <http://www.ouchytheclown.com/prodom.shtml>

Hmmm...Ouchy looks suspiciously like the guy who MC'd
the PornOrchestra show at the Parkway Theater a few
years back - an excellent example of clown dominance
in improvised music.  Another would be Suki's substance
abusing clown improv at the Castro Street Fair.

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Thu Oct  4 13:20:55 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:20:55 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0710041106o7410337dp3539f4dfd6e4be87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071004.110144.1176.101.weaselw@juno.com>
	<ef1ad92c0710041106o7410337dp3539f4dfd6e4be87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W1871942540599897496D6BC1A80@phx.gbl>



Kristin wrote:

>come on, Fred is busy, he doesn't have the time 
>and energy to go to every dink-ass gig around here.  

Well, fair enough, but then maybe he could reconsider
making general remarks in print about something that 
he doesn't really know about...

-George
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now.
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Oct  4 13:26:09 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:26:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Mills article
Message-ID: <C32A9A71.218AF%21grand@21grand.org>

George (who I've missed horribly) Cremaschi wrote:
Kristin wrote:

>come on, Fred is busy, he doesn't have the time
>and energy to go to every dink-ass gig around here.

Well, fair enough, but then maybe he could reconsider
making general remarks in print about something that
he doesn't really know about...

-George
______________

Especially since they come off as unfavorable. Making favorable remarks
about the improv scene when you don't really know anything about it is okay.
We have lots of press clippings that are examples of the latter.

sl


From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 13:47:34 2007
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:47:34 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <C32A9A71.218AF%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C32A9A71.218AF%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0710041347p1e3ce81eu7199a9256a0e3724@mail.gmail.com>

ha ha yes of course! who is going to kvetch about inaccuracy when the
attention is favorable?....aside from people on this list right now talking
about a really nitpicky thing in this overall really positive article about
experimental music and its history in the bay area, i mean.

k



On 10/4/07, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
>
> George (who I've missed horribly) Cremaschi wrote:
> Kristin wrote:
>
> >come on, Fred is busy, he doesn't have the time
> >and energy to go to every dink-ass gig around here.
>
> Well, fair enough, but then maybe he could reconsider
> making general remarks in print about something that
> he doesn't really know about...
>
> -George
> ______________
>
> Especially since they come off as unfavorable. Making favorable remarks
> about the improv scene when you don't really know anything about it is
> okay.
> We have lots of press clippings that are examples of the latter.
>
> sl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From suki at zoka.com  Thu Oct  4 14:00:17 2007
From: suki at zoka.com (Suki O'Kane)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:00:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
Message-ID: <20071004210017.75471.qmail@zoka.com>

That was 'Lude, the Narcotics-Addicted Clown, who found some real friends in the bay area new music scene while playing that gig. Friends, yes, and eleven motrin, two xanax, several greyhounds and a crumpled dollar bill. OK. Maybe 'Lude just "found" the dollar bill. 

http://zoka.com/lude/

accused of repeatedly cheapening the brand,
s

------- Original Message -------
On 10/4/2007 1:14 PM David Slusser wrote:
On Oct 4, 2007, at 1:02 PM, Michael Zelner wrote:

> On 10/4/07, weasel walter wrote:
>
>> here's a statement: the circus is dominated by clowns.
>
> But only the dominant clowns.
>
> Like Ouchy (an Oakland resident!):
>
> <http://www.ouchytheclown.com/prodom.shtml>

Hmmm...Ouchy looks suspiciously like the guy who MC'd
the PornOrchestra show at the Parkway Theater a few
years back - an excellent example of clown dominance
in improvised music.  Another would be Suki's substance
abusing clown improv at the Castro Street Fair.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Thu Oct  4 15:28:54 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:28:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron,
	but with 8-track cassettes
Message-ID: <906018.90516.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Ok, then Creative, or WHATEVER thier parent corp is....


----- Original Message ----
From: barry threw <bthrew at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 6:09:29 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a mellotron, but with 8-track cassettes


There is no more EMU.

b

On Oct 1, 2007, at 5:07 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

> I have a FULL sampled melotron on CD (individual keys every key  
> sampled until the tape runs out...) which reminds me, that it's  
> about time to re-master the CD that it's on so that I don't loose  
> it...Although the one thing that is missing is TRUE POLYPHONY!!! I  
> don't know what has stopped someone from making a computer board  
> that can handle a dozen sound cards (even the 16 bit ones that we  
> think of today as crappy would blow peoples minds if they were used  
> with like 12 in parallel)...All of the modern synths (past the days  
> of the Synclavier) follow the single processor mentality, which  
> inevitably leads to voices cutting out, and latency, no matter how  
> fast the processor is...maybe it's time for EMU to make one (Amar?)...
>
> lettuce
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
> To: tim at perkis.com; newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2007 3:26:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] KERCHUNK!! - the birotron -- like a  
> mellotron, but with 8-track cassettes
>
>
> gotta say that these guerrilla mellotrons miss part of the charm of  
> the
> original - i.e. the actual attack on the beginnings of the tapes.  
> most of
> these improvised mellotrons seem to operate from the premise of
> constantly rolling loops which are keyed on while running in progress.
> it's not bad, but the attack just isn't there.
>
> there are excellent software versions of the mellotron - an old akai
> sample disk version and now the killer m-tron front end version. i use
> the m-tron all the friggin' time . . . it features prominently on  
> several
> tracks of the upcoming flying luttenbachers album out in november.
>
> i always wanted access to a mellotron since i was a teenager and i  
> praise
> technology for letting me finally plunder its sonic riches without all
> the cost, repairs and trouble! at one point about a decade ago zeek  
> sheck
> had a borrowed, bonafide chamberlain at her disposal and i got to  
> do some
> recording with it . . . awesome sounding instrument.
>
> ww
>
> On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:16:06 -0700 Tim Perkis <tim at perkis.com> writes:
>> http://www.believermag.com/issues/200706/?read=article_collins
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Barry Threw
Media Art and Technology


San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew at gmail.com
IM: captogreadmore (AIM)
http:/www.barrythrew.com



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Oct  4 15:33:42 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:33:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <C32A81D0.21884%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <000001c806d6$9ef01000$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article

PG:
Goodness, am I being profiled as one of the male musicians that keep
women sublimated by playing somewhere every night?  I certainly hope
not! 

SL: No, I brought up your prolificity as an example of someone who is an
infrequent audience member at improv gigs because you are performing in
so
many of them.  The issue was infrequent attendance at gigs (other than
one's
own) and whether an infrequent attendee could accurately say whether the
local scene is male-dominated or not.

PG: I see. I imagine Fred is aware of what's going on in the clubs
whether he's there or not - at least as far as who's on stage. In short,
I'm sure he reads the Transbay and surveys BA NEWMUS Events. As to how
well he could register attendees - well, his shows probably have a
different demographic than mine or Damon's or Ava's or Matt D's or
Polly's or REO Speedwagon...how can any of us really evaluate such a
thing with any accuracy or objectivity? I'm not certain it's possible.

The following will be hard to say without sounding defensive. I try to
see as many shows as I can. I probably head over to 1510 more often on
my off nights because it's closer and I've developed a habit of going
out with Jeremy and Micaela afterwards for rock and roll outings. I try
to get over to 21 Grand whenever I see a show listed there that
interests me, which is quite often, but since I am often rehearsing or
practicing at night when people are performing, my time, as is everyone
else's, extends from a rather short leash. 

Like others have said on this list, when I do get out and see something
(I'm heading to the LSG tonight, for example), I am almost always glad I
did. In tandem with my earlier statement about playing with a diverse
crew of players in order to learn from a wider pool of possibilities, I
feel the same way about attending concerts: I learn something from every
show I attend.

Finally, two of the best shows I've been to in recent months have been
Bolivar Zoar at LSG and Mary Clare's solo at SFEMF. I also loved playing
in and listening to the Company night(s) Jorrit Dijkstra curated a few
months ago at 1510 - which featured a good gender balance, if that
matters (apparently it does). And, on a recent night of male-dominated
stage antics, I LOVED hearing Slusser's Rubber City at Starry Plough. I
had to show up with Lisa Mezzacappa just to prove I'm "fair" in my
choice of bassists, and she, without need of saying, completely kicked
ass that night.

Yes, I too indulge in absurdity, as the reader of the above passage will
no doubt attest. Perhaps it's the only way to humor our own inevitable
sense of failure.

I still have not read this article everyone is talking about. I'm
(again) a little surprised that this tired gender thread is the only
thing to come from it. I was sort of hoping we could all get past
worrying about this shit and get more involved with making music
regardless of which aisle we buy our underwear at the local Target
StateSponsoredRightHandsHoistedInTheAirSuperFuckingMegaStore.


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Oct  4 15:39:11 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:39:11 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <p0602044cc32af4d6a217@[192.168.0.5]>
Message-ID: <000101c806d7$632d0810$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Michael Zelner
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Mills article

On 10/4/07, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

>So it really doesn't matter to me who is on the other end of that
>experiment. I don't' care if it's a man or a woman. It could be a
coyote
>for all I care, if I could get a coyote to play the saxophone, I'd be
>interested to hear what s/he had to say...

He (for Coyote is usually male) would probably try to trick you into 
selling your tenor to him for cheap.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_(mythology)>

PG:
Coyote and I are old friends, and yes, he's usually male. He's stolen a
few of my horns, pawned them for atrocious prices, smashed the others
into bits, recast them as jewelry and made thousands more than I ever
have playing them. He eats my food when I don't keep a lock on the
fridge. On the few occasions I buy alcohol, he's usually drank it all
before I have a chance to offer it to a guest. The last time he was in
town, he drank a bottle of my sake and filled it with water. I had
Patrice Scanlon over for a drink; she lost massive faith in me when I
poured her a glass of water and attested it was the only sake I ever
drink. 

MZ:
Or maybe he'd ask for your help in catching the Road Runner.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wile_E._Coyote_and_Road_Runner>

PG:
He doesn't really exist, Michael, he's a fictional character in a
cartoon.

;)


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Oct  4 15:43:21 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:43:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <20071004210017.75471.qmail@zoka.com>
Message-ID: <000201c806d7$f8161070$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Suki O'Kane
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Mills article

That was 'Lude, the Narcotics-Addicted Clown, who found some real
friends in the bay area new music scene while playing that gig. Friends,
yes, and eleven motrin, two xanax, several greyhounds and a crumpled
dollar bill. OK. Maybe 'Lude just "found" the dollar bill. 

http://zoka.com/lude/

accused of repeatedly cheapening the brand,
s

PG:
I've played with this 'Lude, the Narcotics-Addicted Clown, and I was
really disappointed that she didn't hand out Quaaludes when I got to the
gig. Now I find that Xanax was floating around, and a Motrin as well
(not to mention the dollar, which I could have used to buy other
drugs)...fucking stingy clown - that's what drug addiction will do to
you kidz, best you stay clear and leave the hazards to the elders, who
know well how to manage them.


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Oct  4 20:27:36 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:27:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <C32A866F.2188D%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C32A866F.2188D%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <4FE5C9FA-B09A-40C8-B42B-894EEAE56455@balancepointacoustics.com>

Men certainly out number women as far as totals go but  I'd say when  
you are talking about the very best players in our scene, especially  
my generation and younger,  it gets more even.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From polly.moller at gmail.com  Thu Oct  4 20:52:31 2007
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:52:31 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <000001c806d6$9ef01000$4001a8c0@PG>
References: <C32A81D0.21884%21grand@21grand.org>
	<000001c806d6$9ef01000$4001a8c0@PG>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40710042052j191c00dbyf564e049076415d7@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:

> PG: I see. I imagine Fred is aware of what's going on in the clubs
> whether he's there or not - at least as far as who's on stage. In short,
> I'm sure he reads the Transbay and surveys BA NEWMUS Events. As to how
> well he could register attendees - well, his shows probably have a
> different demographic than mine or Damon's or Ava's or Matt D's or
> Polly's or REO Speedwagon...how can any of us really evaluate such a
> thing with any accuracy or objectivity? I'm not certain it's possible.

I love how Phillip's stream of consciousness goes straight from me to
REO Speedwagon. :):):)  Somehow, I gotta stop giggling so I can practice.
;)

P.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pollymoller.com
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller
------------------------------------------------------------

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Oct  4 21:03:48 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 21:03:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40710042052j191c00dbyf564e049076415d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C32A81D0.21884%21grand@21grand.org>
	<000001c806d6$9ef01000$4001a8c0@PG>
	<2eb068d40710042052j191c00dbyf564e049076415d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80A1B236-3F62-485C-A24D-A525CB266F18@balancepointacoustics.com>

I have to say I see PG at a lot of gigs he is not playing even with  
his heavy schedule.

On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:52 PM, Polly Moller wrote:

> On 10/4/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> PG: I see. I imagine Fred is aware of what's going on in the clubs
>> whether he's there or not - at least as far as who's on stage. In  
>> short,
>> I'm sure he reads the Transbay and surveys BA NEWMUS Events. As to  
>> how
>> well he could register attendees - well, his shows probably have a
>> different demographic than mine or Damon's or Ava's or Matt D's or
>> Polly's or REO Speedwagon...how can any of us really evaluate such a
>> thing with any accuracy or objectivity? I'm not certain it's  
>> possible.
>
> I love how Phillip's stream of consciousness goes straight from me to
> REO Speedwagon. :):):)  Somehow, I gotta stop giggling so I can  
> practice.
> ;)
>
> P.
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.pollymoller.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Oct  5 08:58:14 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 08:58:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mills article
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40710042052j191c00dbyf564e049076415d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009001c80768$8aa87c30$4001a8c0@PG>

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Polly Moller
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Mills article

On 10/4/07, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:

> PG: I see. I imagine Fred is aware of what's going on in the clubs
> whether he's there or not - at least as far as who's on stage. In
short,
> I'm sure he reads the Transbay and surveys BA NEWMUS Events. As to how
> well he could register attendees - well, his shows probably have a
> different demographic than mine or Damon's or Ava's or Matt D's or
> Polly's or REO Speedwagon...how can any of us really evaluate such a
> thing with any accuracy or objectivity? I'm not certain it's possible.

I love how Phillip's stream of consciousness goes straight from me to
REO Speedwagon. :):):)  Somehow, I gotta stop giggling so I can
practice.
;)

P.
 
PG:
The jump in terms of cultural references was meant to be a wide berth -
I was hoping to add some small hint of humor to my rant...thanks for
giggling. Now get back to work.

:)


From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  5 09:22:18 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:22:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Fw: Apply This Fall for 2008 Residency Partnership Grants
Message-ID: <653300.46593.qm@web55607.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


Jon Raskin

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Chamber Music America <chamber-music at chamber-music.pmailus.com>
To: jon at rova.org
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2007 8:05:18 AM
Subject: Apply This Fall for 2008 Residency Partnership Grants





	
		
		
			
						
			Sent by: Chamber Music America
Reply to the sender
			
			
		
					
				
			
				
	






	
		
					
		
	

	
				
				
					
					CMA Member:
					
				
				
					
												Interested in applying for a residency?
CMA's Residency Partnership Program supports non-traditional partnerships among ensembles, presenters, and community-based organizations, with the goal of bringing live ensemble music to urban, rural and suburban audiences across the United States.
Application deadline:  December 7, 2007
Guidelines and the application form are currently available on the Chamber Music America website at www.chamber-music.org.  
Support is available for three types of projects:
Short-term:  $2,500 to $6,000
Extended term:  $5,000 to $12,000
Multi-year: up to $15,000 per year
For more information, or to schedule a consultation, please contact me via email at sdadian at chamber-music.org.
Susan Dadian
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From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Fri Oct  5 10:28:17 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <309138.80995.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <728721.29875.qm@web58010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

hmmm....Am I the only one here interested in
discussing Slusser's article?

Or is everyone just so enthralled in counting gender
heads, and coming up with new and interesting ways of
looking at gender statistics that gives baseball radio
announcer's stastics a run for their money, that they
could care less?






--- Jacob Lindsay <jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hey Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the review.  I saw that book at the store
> a
> couple weeks back.  It looked interesting but
> ultimately I didn't buy it b/c it looked like most
> of
> the musical references made were to pop music.  I
> wasn't sure if I would be able to translate this
> into
> information that would be useful for me.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure I buy your equation of textural
> innovation in pop music to textural innovation in
> improvised music, since per your example in the
> first
> instance, it seems to be an attempt to fill in a gap
> left by the dumbing-down of popular music, were in
> the
> case of later seems to be dues to a conscious move
> away from idiomatic references.
> 
> P.s. Thanks to Suki for another nice looking edition
> of the calendar.
> 
> -jacob
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Jacob Lindsay
>
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> 
> 
>        
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small
> Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

From weaselw at juno.com  Fri Oct  5 11:18:59 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <20071005.111904.1176.142.weaselw@juno.com>

i read the article and david's synopsis of it, particularly the last
paragraph, gave me the chills. it has been my suspicion for a long time
that appreciating music on higher levels is directly proportionate with
aspects of conditioning and/or education. considering we're in a
dumbed-down society, it's no wonder most people don't have the attention
span for most challenging music. welcome to the idiocracy. 

do i see my own music as being "better" than what "most people" prefer to
listen to? not per se, but it's not fucking WORSE than it either! if
they'd stop acting like crack babies and listen to it a few times, some
of them might like it. maybe i need to put the catchy chorus first so
they don't have to wait around for any development?

ww
 
On Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Jacob Lindsay
<jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com> writes:
> hmmm....Am I the only one here interested in
> discussing Slusser's article?

From slusser at pixar.com  Fri Oct  5 11:43:50 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:43:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <728721.29875.qm@web58010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <728721.29875.qm@web58010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AF998D28-7835-4509-8C62-BFB1035C79AE@pixar.com>

On Oct 5, 2007, at 10:28 AM, Jacob Lindsay wrote:

> hmmm....Am I the only one here interested in
> discussing Slusser's article?
>
> Or is everyone just so enthralled in counting gender
> heads, and coming up with new and interesting ways of
> looking at gender statistics that gives baseball radio
> announcer's stastics a run for their money, that they
> could care less?

Ha ha.  I haven't had time yet to address your comments
(good ones) with a worthy response (more light than
heat).  Weasel got some other aspects of my drift, but
I'll shortly expound....

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Fri Oct  5 11:59:34 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:59:34 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <728721.29875.qm@web58010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <309138.80995.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<728721.29875.qm@web58010.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W25989E5BD2FF8303D3DEA7C1A90@phx.gbl>



Jacob wrote:

> hmmm....Am I the only one here interested in  discussing Slusser's article? 
> Or is everyone just so enthralled in counting gender heads....blah blah

Well, that's the way to get people to want to have a discussion:
berate them!


> Also, I'm not sure I buy your equation of textural innovation in pop music 
> to textural innovation in improvised music, since per your example in the 
> first instance, it seems to be an attempt to fill in a gap left by the dumbing-down 
> of popular music were in the case of later seems to be dues to a conscious move
> away from idiomatic references. 

I think there's some truth to both ends. Were Hendrix and Clapton 'dumbing-down'
the music as they were innovating new sonic textures? Perhaps, but only to
their less talented followers - Hendrix and Clapton etc, of course, were fully 
capable of writing and performing harmonically, melodically, and rhythmically 
rich music. Only later did a bunch of effects pedals become an excuse for not 
knowing how to play.

Same with 'non-idiomatic' free improv: the early practitioners knew exactly
what they were moving away from, and usually were accomplished 'straight'
musicians, which informed their music in a way that often eludes someone who
takes a late Derek Bailey recording as the starting point.

So the starting points seem to be the same - folks who were moving away from
forms they had more or less absorbed and mastered, worrying less about form
and overt complex harmonic movement, and focusing more on tone, timbre and
texture. The real divergence seems to happen in the second and third generations,
in some ways more 'pure', but in other ways less connected, and more specialist.

-George
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Sat Oct  6 03:34:11 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 03:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <534037.84239.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


"So the starting points seem to be the same - folks who were moving away from
forms they had more or less absorbed and mastered, worrying less about form
and overt complex harmonic movement, and focusing more on tone, timbre and
texture. The real divergence seems to happen in the second and third generations,
in some ways more 'pure', but in other ways less connected, and more specialist."

The sea of information we have involved to has obscured the sharp lines that were passionately felt in the 60's  The "specialist" also seems connected to the High and Low art dialog, or is it distortion, which confuses the different function and roles that music plays.  This is a similar concern or issue with most music consumers although from a different vantage point.  The consumer and artist side of us can discard what no longer interests us and pick up something new.  Collecting is simplified by improvements in storage capacity.  Authenticity is a factor for both the creator and consumer and pedigree never goes out of style.   The artist needs to  "discover or find self" and the consumer picks and chooses from a yearly renewal of possibilities.  A consumer is an economic description and an artist is a cultural description and  the artist is a consumer as well as the content maker.  
Everyone is a consumer but not everyone is an artist and I agree with ww that the "crack" consumers may like a wider scope of music than they realize which keeps "hope alive" for me anyway.  ww is an optimist really.
Art for Art sake, and a drive to be creative is a both a stance and life choice which needs to be negotiated constantly with making a living and family.  Art is also community, which the passing of Jack Davis, brought into focus for me last week. Community is being connected which is a different sense of the word than what I think George meant.  George, are you talking about connected to the past, to the essence of a type of music, connected to artistic vision?

Enough of the ramble,  I'm on tour and have reflection time which is in short supply at home.
 
I look forward to reading the book along with Oliver Sachs new book Muiscophilia as a lover of lay science.


Jon Raskin

----- Original Message ----
From: George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2007 11:59:34 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] slusser's article



Jacob wrote:

> hmmm....Am I the only one here interested in  discussing Slusser's article? 
> Or is everyone just so enthralled in counting gender heads....blah blah

Well, that's the way to get people to want to have a discussion:
berate them!


> Also, I'm not sure I buy your equation of textural innovation in pop music 
> to textural innovation in improvised music, since per your example in the 
> first instance, it seems to be an attempt to fill in a gap left by the dumbing-down 
> of popular music were in the case of later seems to be dues to a conscious move
> away from idiomatic references. 

I think there's some truth to both ends. Were Hendrix and Clapton 'dumbing-down'
the music as they were innovating new sonic textures? Perhaps, but only to
their less talented followers - Hendrix and Clapton etc, of course, were fully 
capable of writing and performing harmonically, melodically, and rhythmically 
rich music. Only later did a bunch of effects pedals become an excuse for not 
knowing how to play.

Same with 'non-idiomatic' free improv: the early practitioners knew exactly
what they were moving away from, and usually were accomplished 'straight'
musicians, which informed their music in a way that often eludes someone who
takes a late Derek Bailey recording as the starting point.

"So the starting points seem to be the same - folks who were moving away from
forms they had more or less absorbed and mastered, worrying less about form
and overt complex harmonic movement, and focusing more on tone, timbre and
texture. The real divergence seems to happen in the second and third generations,
in some ways more 'pure', but in other ways less connected, and more specialist."

-George
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic




From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  6 13:34:21 2007
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:34:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <534037.84239.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <534037.84239.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W2187482C5B3ED8B9BC5119C1AA0@phx.gbl>


Mr Raskin wrote:

>The sea of information...has obscured the sharp lines 
>that were passionately felt in the 60's 

And the difference with the atmosphere of today, where most 
people don't believe in much more than themselves, if even that,
is monumental. Carrying around a Little Red Book may have been
pathetic in retrospect, but underneath the current apolitical hipster
snarkiness lies.....a great big nothing.


>The "specialist" also seems connected to the High and Low art dialog, 
>or is it distortion, which confuses the different function and roles that 
>music plays. 

I've become mostly interested in interdisciplinary work (dance, installation, etc)
the last few years as I've become increasingly aware that my perspective
is much more in line with contemporary art, as opposed to music, traditions. 
And the idea of just getting up on stage and playing some sounds that
I like for 45 minutes at a stretch has become increasingly, well, boring.
I've lately been far more interested in the 'noise' scene than the 'improv' scene
for these reasons - noise musicians tend to look at their work from an
artist's perspective, thinking conceptually and theatrically, where improvisers
tend to take the traditional music presentation ideas as a given, focusing
all of their attention to delivering the sound itself, but zero attention to the
form in which it's delivered. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I suspect
that presenting something non-traditional in a traditional format might have
something to do with the no-audience problem. I'm no longer confused as
to why 'sound art' is currently far more 'successful' than improv - it knows
what it's target audience is: the art world, not music fans.  


>Collecting is simplified by improvements in storage capacity. 

Owning the complete collected works of 
means nothing, aside from the fact that you own the complete collected 
works of .


-George
_________________________________________________________________
Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Sun Oct  7 07:29:50 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 07:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <809004.84849.qm@web55614.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

What I think the collecting that the new storage mediums allow (which started with vinyl) allows is a facile way to create music by assembly and this process isn't also in the art world as well.  You mentioned the sweat of craft in the first email reply and that concept has really changed in terms of the what craft entails.  Music seems more prone to the acknowledge sources of the music.  It's amusing to think of someone who sings of the river running by that is the source of how life is lived to the creating of ___- hop/reggae, rai, tuvan, cambodian dance music with a touch of \bollywood.  The nouns become adjectives the river is the information age.
 
As for collaborating, I completely agree and finding people that have something interesting going on keeps it fresh and vital.  I'm not familiar with sound art audience you mention but if the art world is giving up on country music than that is a good sign.  What sound artists are you referring to?  There is group in Vienna I heard about yesterday that does what sounds like punk improv/sound and did a double bill with a string quartet doing Mozart through twentieth century works and at once point was naked with close pins stuck on their asses.  I'm assuming they were under 30.  Fifty year asses would be way to radical.  The group name had "Fuck" in it but the second part escapees me at the moment and a public computer doesn't allow for a web search.


 
Jon Raskin 


----- Original Message ----
From: George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2007 10:34:21 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] slusser's article


Mr Raskin wrote:

>The sea of information...has obscured the sharp lines
>that were passionately felt in the 60's

And the difference with the atmosphere of today, where most
people don't believe in much more than themselves, if even that,
is monumental. Carrying around a Little Red Book may have been
pathetic in retrospect, but underneath the current apolitical hipster
snarkiness lies.....a great big nothing.


>The "specialist" also seems connected to the High and Low art dialog,
>or is it distortion, which confuses the different function and roles that
>music plays.

I've become mostly interested in interdisciplinary work (dance, installation, etc)
the last few years as I've become increasingly aware that my perspective
is much more in line with contemporary art, as opposed to music, traditions.
And the idea of just getting up on stage and playing some sounds that
I like for 45 minutes at a stretch has become increasingly, well, boring.
I've lately been far more interested in the 'noise' scene than the 'improv' scene
for these reasons - noise musicians tend to look at their work from an
artist's perspective, thinking conceptually and theatrically, where improvisers
tend to take the traditional music presentation ideas as a given, focusing
all of their attention to delivering the sound itself, but zero attention to the
form in which it's delivered. And there's nothing wrong with that, but I suspect
that presenting something non-traditional in a traditional format might have
something to do with the no-audience problem. I'm no longer confused as
to why 'sound art' is currently far more 'successful' than improv - it knows
what it's target audience is: the art world, not music fans.


>Collecting is simplified by improvements in storage capacity.

Owning the complete collected works of
means nothing, aside from the fact that you own the complete collected
works of .


-George
_________________________________________________________________
Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From weaselw at juno.com  Sun Oct  7 09:07:28 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 09:07:28 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <20071007.090736.3840.3.weaselw@juno.com>

> There is group in Vienna I 
> heard about yesterday that does what sounds like punk improv/sound 
> and did a double bill with a string quartet doing Mozart through 
> twentieth century works and at once point was naked with close pins 
> stuck on their asses.  I'm assuming they were under 30.  Fifty year 
> asses would be way to radical.  The group name had "Fuck" in it but 
> the second part escapees me at the moment and a public computer 
> doesn't allow for a web search.

probably fuckface? the flying luttenbachers played gigs with them around
1998 . . . they definitely had some performance art aspects - the singer
swallowed a tube of lights and you could see them through his body. don't
remember much about the music other than they played too long and it
wasn't really my cup of tea . . . 

ww 

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Oct  7 10:01:43 2007
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 10:01:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-W2187482C5B3ED8B9BC5119C1AA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000f01c80903$bd344390$4001a8c0@PG>

dEar bListers,

Here's a short interview with my man Sonny Rollins in this month's
Vanity Fair. As always, he exhibits qualities I greatly admire in a
human being.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/09/proust_rollins200709

Peace,
PG


From slusser at pixar.com  Sun Oct  7 20:14:24 2007
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 20:14:24 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <309138.80995.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <309138.80995.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C7E21C0A-55B2-4790-8400-9DFE6726A6A9@pixar.com>

On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> Thanks for the review.  I saw that book at the store a
> couple weeks back.  It looked interesting but
> ultimately I didn't buy it b/c it looked like most of
> the musical references made were to pop music.  I
> wasn't sure if I would be able to translate this into
> information that would be useful for me.
>
> Also, I'm not sure I buy your equation of textural
> innovation in pop music to textural innovation in
> improvised music, since per your example in the first
> instance, it seems to be an attempt to fill in a gap
> left by the dumbing-down of popular music, were in the
> case of later seems to be dues to a conscious move
> away from idiomatic references.

I was hoping someone would take the bait.  (Seriously, I
want to encourage more folks to submit content to the
Transbay so we have more to talk about here.)  First,
read the book (This Is Your Brain On Music).  The pop
references are few and fleeting - I was totally unfamiliar
with most of them, and the author's explanations are
so clear that you don't need them.  It's way more about
the workings of the brain, and I had an "a-ha" moment
every few pages.

As for my provocative "equating", I merely said I wasn't
surprised at the parallel rise of tone, timbre and texture
in both pop and contemporary improv.  For that matter,
it has also occurred in so called "classical" music.  Maybe
a generation earlier it swept through painting.  I think a
case can be made where this is a phenomenon of art in
our particular time.

On the surface, how pop and improv both moved in that
direction don't appear closely related, yet those and every
thing else seems to have moved that way anyway - so I
think it bears closer inspection.  How pop music got
"dumbed down" had more to do with emerging mass
media and marketing than the hapless musicians involved.
The point the author (Daniel Levitin) makes is that tone,
timbre and texture became the last reserve for musical
creativity in that field.  (Sound familiar, improvisers?)

The conscious move away from idiomatic references in
improvised music was also a move for more creativity.
To me the seeds are easy to see in the fundamental
jazz tenet that exalts originality above all else - you
have to have your own sound.  Of course, in jazz,
there were social forces that led African-Americans
to abandon previous idioms as well.  This all happened
while I was coming up as a musician and improviser,
and certainly not all at once.  Today, we have "non-
idiomatic improvisation" as an actual defined idiom
you can chose to adopt, where it works as long as you
don't make an idiomatic reference.  (This can be just
another straight jacket, and conveniently, you also don't
need technical knowledge of other established
idioms, but I digress...)  This was not so clear back in
the day.  Perhaps the relation in all these cases is that
over-use and exposure of all art in the post/neo
information age has made the more fundamental and
non-referential elements a pan-artistic refuge.

Reading the book, you're compelled to reference your
own experience.  Experience is also what the book
reveals to be fundamental to what each of us defines
as music, perhaps the "chilling" element Weasel refers
to.  Non-idiomatic improvisation will never be music to
the masses.  According to the research, you're only
going to get that shot of dopamine when a musician
tickles something you're already familiar with.  That
pretty much narrows it down to musical explorers and
"tone scientists" (to borrow from Sun Ra).  As I concluded
in my review, we may be the only audience for our music.

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sun Oct  7 21:57:59 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:57:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] moe!kestra 10th anniversary youtube footage
Message-ID: <C32F06E7.21A3F%21grand@21grand.org>

We've got the stuff we know about here:

http://www.21grand.org/wpress/?p=6

Any others? And if you have or know of any other 21 Grand documentation
online, send links our way ... we're on a little archiving binge over here.

thanks,

sl


From tim at perkis.com  Sun Oct  7 22:50:47 2007
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:50:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Birgit Ulher, Gino Robair,
 Tim Perkis at Maybeck w/ dancer Paige Sorvillo - thu oct 11
Message-ID: <4709C537.2000606@perkis.com>


Maybeck Studio <http://www.handprintseries.com/maybeck.html>
Berkeley

Thursday Oct 11 8:00 pm

Ulher, Perkis, Robair, Sorvillo @ Maybeck Studio
An evening of improvisation with dance and music that explores sections 
of the lovely Maybeck House in  at 1537 Euclid in Berkeley, featuring 
German trumpeter Birgit Ulher, Paige Sorvillo (movement), Tim Perkis 
(laptop) and Gino Robair 
<http://bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=5> 
(percussion/analog synth/prepared piano). For more information, contact 
maybeck at handprintseries.com.

Cost : donation ($6-$10 customary)

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  8 00:15:03 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:15:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <240317.20289.qm@web55615.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

That's the group,  and it a very different event at the jazz festival if Kronos where playing with them this year.
 
Jon Raskin


----- Original Message ----
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2007 6:07:28 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] slusser's article


> There is group in Vienna I 
> heard about yesterday that does what sounds like punk improv/sound 
> and did a double bill with a string quartet doing Mozart through 
> twentieth century works and at once point was naked with close pins 
> stuck on their asses.  I'm assuming they were under 30.  Fifty year 
> asses would be way to radical.  The group name had "Fuck" in it but 
> the second part escapees me at the moment and a public computer 
> doesn't allow for a web search.

probably fuckface? the flying luttenbachers played gigs with them around
1998 . . . they definitely had some performance art aspects - the singer
swallowed a tube of lights and you could see them through his body. don't
remember much about the music other than they played too long and it
wasn't really my cup of tea . . . 

ww 
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  8 00:16:05 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:16:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] moe!kestra 10th anniversary youtube footage
In-Reply-To: <C32F06E7.21A3F%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <96562.10612.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

God, whenever I get a release for the "Death of A Piano" on album, that OPD quote is definitely going in there. So funny that was ever said!

-M!
 

Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: We've got the stuff we know about here:

http://www.21grand.org/wpress/?p=6

Any others? And if you have or know of any other 21 Grand documentation
online, send links our way ... we're on a little archiving binge over here.

thanks,

sl

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
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From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  8 00:43:49 2007
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 00:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <343756.57804.qm@web55613.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

At the same of the non idiomatic development there was the pan music approach that is a very active approach at the same time as the textural, non idiomatic approach and if you look at the Art Ensemble and Roscoe Mitchell's and Anthony Braxton's work in particular, it incorporates a whole spectrum of the music in the"time continuum".  Much of the "world music" falls into this approach where the local truths of a music have to look for other local truths to survive.  It all feeds the maw of mass consumption but the artistic impulse is more toward the local.
 
PG
" Of course, in jazz,
there were social forces that led African-Americans
to abandon previous idioms as well.  This all happened
while I was coming up as a musician and improviser,
and certainly not all at once. "
 
It should also be noted that this turning of the artistic soil is a part of the African-American aesthetic where you find your voice, make use of common musical vision and the under pinning's are quite similar.  It's adding your thing onto the fabric of the whole.  Sun Ra may never be "mass" but it certainly stays vital and essential.  Isn't that more to the point really?
 
JR
It is no great shock to understand the repetition and familiarity has a biological equivalence, think "learn to feel the beat".  Research, cutting edge or whatever is what it is.  Heading toward the light is biological endeavor as well.
 
Jon Raskin 


----- Original Message ----
From: David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2007 5:14:24 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] slusser's article


On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> Thanks for the review.  I saw that book at the store a
> couple weeks back.  It looked interesting but
> ultimately I didn't buy it b/c it looked like most of
> the musical references made were to pop music.  I
> wasn't sure if I would be able to translate this into
> information that would be useful for me.
>
> Also, I'm not sure I buy your equation of textural
> innovation in pop music to textural innovation in
> improvised music, since per your example in the first
> instance, it seems to be an attempt to fill in a gap
> left by the dumbing-down of popular music, were in the
> case of later seems to be dues to a conscious move
> away from idiomatic references.

I was hoping someone would take the bait.  (Seriously, I
want to encourage more folks to submit content to the
Transbay so we have more to talk about here.)  First,
read the book (This Is Your Brain On Music).  The pop
references are few and fleeting - I was totally unfamiliar
with most of them, and the author's explanations are
so clear that you don't need them.  It's way more about
the workings of the brain, and I had an "a-ha" moment
every few pages.

As for my provocative "equating", I merely said I wasn't
surprised at the parallel rise of tone, timbre and texture
in both pop and contemporary improv.  For that matter,
it has also occurred in so called "classical" music.  Maybe
a generation earlier it swept through painting.  I think a
case can be made where this is a phenomenon of art in
our particular time.

On the surface, how pop and improv both moved in that
direction don't appear closely related, yet those and every
thing else seems to have moved that way anyway - so I
think it bears closer inspection.  How pop music got
"dumbed down" had more to do with emerging mass
media and marketing than the hapless musicians involved.
The point the author (Daniel Levitin) makes is that tone,
timbre and texture became the last reserve for musical
creativity in that field.  (Sound familiar, improvisers?)

The conscious move away from idiomatic references in
improvised music was also a move for more creativity.
To me the seeds are easy to see in the fundamental
jazz tenet that exalts originality above all else - you
have to have your own sound.  Of course, in jazz,
there were social forces that led African-Americans
to abandon previous idioms as well.  This all happened
while I was coming up as a musician and improviser,
and certainly not all at once.  Today, we have "non-
idiomatic improvisation" as an actual defined idiom
you can chose to adopt, where it works as long as you
don't make an idiomatic reference.  (This can be just
another straight jacket, and conveniently, you also don't
need technical knowledge of other established
idioms, but I digress...)  This was not so clear back in
the day.  Perhaps the relation in all these cases is that
over-use and exposure of all art in the post/neo
information age has made the more fundamental and
non-referential elements a pan-artistic refuge.

Reading the book, you're compelled to reference your
own experience.  Experience is also what the book
reveals to be fundamental to what each of us defines
as music, perhaps the "chilling" element Weasel refers
to.  Non-idiomatic improvisation will never be music to
the masses.  According to the research, you're only
going to get that shot of dopamine when a musician
tickles something you're already familiar with.  That
pretty much narrows it down to musical explorers and
"tone scientists" (to borrow from Sun Ra).  As I concluded
in my review, we may be the only audience for our music.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  8 07:23:48 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 07:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Moe!'s 4th Annual ROCK LOTTO! Participants needed:
	December 15th
In-Reply-To: <51303.23540.qm@web58701.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <395602.76696.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

 Hello!

Moe! Staiano here to announce the (long rescheduled) 4th Annual ROCK LOTTO to be taking place at 21 Grand on December 15th, a Saturday at that! I am looking for musicians to participate and play in this fun event. A lot of you are aware and have played in previous Rock Lotto shows, but for those of you who want more information and may be interested in playing, here's the run-down:

- Participants submit their name and the instrument they play. Then the names are drawn from a hat to form bands. The bands have about a month or so to write about three to five songs, or about a 20-minute live set, and then everyone gets together to rock in front of an audience.

- This newly drawn "band" meet up with each other on your own terms and create and rehearse new songs to be performed at the date of the show. The songs must be composed and not improvised. You are allowed only one cover song, unless you present a string of covers tunes creatively. 

There have been some really great performances and bands from the past other four years (we skipped a year) with some awesome results from the participants.

Again, the date is Saturday, December 15th, 2007. Venue is 21 Grand at 416 25th Street in Oakland. The show will benefit 21 Grand as well.

If interested, please email me at: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com
Please include:

-Your name
-What instrument you want to play
-Any background info about yourself

Instruments needed includes:

-Guitar
-Bass
-Drums/percussion
-A singer
-Keyboards
-Reeds/brass
-Etc.

Looking forward to this. You may also forward this to others who may be interested. Hear from you soon.

Moe! Staiano
209-814-2524
moestaiano1 at yahoo.com
www.moestaiano.com
www.myspace.com/moestaianomoekestra
www.myspace.com/mutesocialite


 "I know how to fix records, I'm from New York."
    -Overheard from person in a music store

       
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From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Oct  8 14:30:26 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:30:26 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?
Message-ID: <20071008.143029.3840.32.weaselw@juno.com>

 i think we had this query a while back, but . . . 

does anyone know a good place to do retail ready runs of 100 cd-rs with
shrinkwrap? local is good but not necessary. thanks.

ww

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  8 14:42:01 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:42:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?
Message-ID: <163079.7120.qm@web50303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Yes, we did, and if we had a FAQ, the following ~might~ be on it....



where can I get cd's made for cheap...

should I play an acoustic or electric instrument, what's better...

why is the improv scene so male dominated...

how cum Moe! bashes in a perfectly good F#$ked up piano...

isn't it racist how those white guys ignore jazz improv?...

what's my Mills degree good for? (Willie the Pimp...)

where can I get the best sausages in Oakland...




of course, then we would have no reason to write to the listserv...


lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2007 2:30:26 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?


i think we had this query a while back, but . . . 

does anyone know a good place to do retail ready runs of 100 cd-rs with
shrinkwrap? local is good but not necessary. thanks.

ww
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Oct  8 14:47:15 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:47:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  cd duplication in short runs?
Message-ID: <C32FF373.21AC0%21grand@21grand.org>

The last iteration of this topic occurred here - fairly early.

http://music.mills.edu/pipermail/newmusic/2007-April/date.html

re: banewmus FAQ

Lettuce not forget:

How come no one comes to shows anymore?

I miss Beanbenders.

Hipsters/NY/the press suck/sucks.

and

How do I unsubscribe from this list?

sl


From decker at resipiscent.com  Mon Oct  8 11:37:30 2007
From: decker at resipiscent.com (decker)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:37:30 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <1191880105.29E1F3C1@be12.dngr.org>

Some stiff wrote:
"Experience is also what [This Is Your Brain On Music] reveals to be 
fundamental to what each of us defines as music, perhaps the "chilling" 
element Weasel refers to.  Non-idiomatic improvisation will never be 
music to the masses.  According to the research, you're only going to 
get that shot of dopamine when a musician tickles something you're 
already familiar with.  That pretty much narrows it down to musical 
explorers and "tone scientists" (to borrow from Sun Ra).  As I concluded 
in my review, we may be the only audience for our music."

First time lurker, just wanna suggest we all keep a close eye on these 
materialist/hard-science arguments, they never get at generative forces 
or framing concepts, like how does a new experience become familiar in 
the first place? Every "instrument" including singing and gesture were 
an innovation at some point. Hard sciences often fails (instructively) 
at describing entelechy, emergence, Hegelian dialectics, whether in 
biology with punctuated equilibrium (Gould's notion, hated by many 
hardcore materialists) or aesthetic/cultural paradigm shifts. Even 
within a dopamine-release theory of aesthetics, is familiarity the only 
trigger? What chemical pathways are etched through waterboarding or 
coitus interurruptus? Are they mistaking entertainment for art? Don't 
think science won't be reductive like that, they love them a solvable 
problem and not surprisingly marketers love them some evolutionary 
psychologists.

We know flux better when our brains and bodies are in wild 
pubescent/nervous throes, but we grow older, jaded, attending primarily 
to familiarities in an effort to stave off what's really happening: 
mutation, error, uncertainty, chaos, powerlessness, decay. Art since 
Hegel has had to contend with mutability, I'm not sure sciences isn't 
still head in the sand trying to fix on natural laws, hoping no one will 
notice einstein and newton still contradict one another.

Just saying, beware the application of fMRI studies to aesthetics and 
ethics, evolutionary psychology tells you about a minute fraction of 
subjective experience, the fraction that would equally apply to 
cro-magnon as to pee-wee herman which is to say, not the most 
interesting part. That's not to suggest cro-magnon didn't have culture 
and personality, but determinism doesnt describe aesthetics when it 
describes mechanisms of perception.

Decker

From weaselw at juno.com  Mon Oct  8 14:55:50 2007
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:55:50 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
Message-ID: <20071008.145551.3840.36.weaselw@juno.com>

> We know flux better when our brains and bodies are in wild 
> pubescent/nervous throes, but we grow older, jaded, attending 
> primarily to familiarities in an effort to stave off what's really
happening: 
> mutation, error, uncertainty, chaos, powerlessness, decay. 

ha ha ha. that last list is a very good description of the feelings and
attributes behind my own music. bizarre. 

ww

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Oct  8 15:32:41 2007
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:32:41 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  slusser's article
Message-ID: <C32FFE19.21ACC%21grand@21grand.org>


> mutation, error, uncertainty, chaos, powerlessness, decay

I think all of these have been included in the title of an SRL show at some
point, Mr. Anzalone, corroboration?

sl


From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Mon Oct  8 16:47:49 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:47:49 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?
In-Reply-To: <C32FF373.21AC0%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C32FF373.21AC0%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <1BA6C3ED-F2BC-418C-97FA-FB2103A433D4@balancepointacoustics.com>

http://www.harshnoise.com I am thinking of using them for some projects.


Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From windrag at earthlink.net  Mon Oct  8 16:54:41 2007
From: windrag at earthlink.net (Ryk Groetchen)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:54:41 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?
In-Reply-To: <20071008.143029.3840.32.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20071008.143029.3840.32.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <A9FDF3CC-4FAF-41E2-932E-B763A16F746A@earthlink.net>

On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:30 PM, weasel walter wrote:

>  i think we had this query a while back, but . . .
>
> does anyone know a good place to do retail ready runs of 100 cd-rs  
> with
> shrinkwrap? local is good but not necessary. thanks.
>
> ww

I use DeNoise quite often, with good results.

http://denoise.com

rag

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 09:43:21 2007
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 20th century sheet music store
Message-ID: <664657.68712.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Another FAQ, that I co-incidentally need answered is 
Where is there a good music store in the bay area that has a good stock of 20th century music? I'm looking for something more adventurous than they sell in the south bay...which seems to stop exactly where the line between public domain and copywritten material begins...



lettuce







----- Original Message ----
From: Ryk Groetchen <windrag at earthlink.net>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2007 4:54:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?

On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:30 PM, weasel walter wrote:

>  i think we had this query a while back, but . . .
>
> does anyone know a good place to do retail ready runs of 100 cd-rs  
> with
> shrinkwrap? local is good but not necessary. thanks.
>
> ww

I use DeNoise quite often, with good results.

http://denoise.com

rag
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Oct  9 09:52:26 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:52:26 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 20th century sheet music store
In-Reply-To: <664657.68712.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <664657.68712.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57CBF3AA-37AA-4F6C-83BD-A2E9D222ED8A@balancepointacoustics.com>


On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

> Another FAQ, that I co-incidentally need answered is
> Where is there a good music store in the bay area that has a good  
> stock of 20th century music? I'm looking for something more  
> adventurous than they sell in the south bay...which seems to stop  
> exactly where the line between public domain and copywritten  
> material begins...

Both Amoebas are pretty well stocked, the street light in Noe valley  
has a lot of rare 20 century vinyl for some reason, at reasonable  
prices.
I have been getting a lot from emusic.com they have mode, col lengo,  
harmonia mundi and a lot of other great labels. it is often less than  
$2 for an album that would be a $20 import.



Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 09:57:36 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 20th century sheet music store
In-Reply-To: <664657.68712.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <933498.71749.qm@web58702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Sheet Music Plus (www.sheetmusicplus.com). Although I know they are a web store with many great 20th century score on hand (I got a Dumitrescu percussion score from them), I'm not sure if they are a walk-in type of store. If they are, they are located in Emeryville on 64th Street (1300 to be exact). Then after you're done there, you can go on over to Electronic Musicians and say hello to Gino. Hope this helps.
   
  -M!

  

Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Another FAQ, that I co-incidentally need answered is 
Where is there a good music store in the bay area that has a good stock of 20th century music? I'm looking for something more adventurous than they sell in the south bay...which seems to stop exactly where the line between public domain and copywritten material begins...



lettuce







----- Original Message ----
From: Ryk Groetchen 
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group 
Sent: Monday, October 8, 2007 4:54:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] cd duplication in short runs?

On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:30 PM, weasel walter wrote:

> i think we had this query a while back, but . . .
>
> does anyone know a good place to do retail ready runs of 100 cd-rs 
> with
> shrinkwrap? local is good but not necessary. thanks.
>
> ww

I use DeNoise quite often, with good results.

http://denoise.com

rag
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
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From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 10:00:34 2007
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 20th century sheet music store
In-Reply-To: <57CBF3AA-37AA-4F6C-83BD-A2E9D222ED8A@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <300387.72834.qm@web58702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Wait, are you looking for sheet music or just CD's? If CD's, then, yeah, I agree with Damon: both Amoeba stores have a great selection of 20th (and 21st Century music). The Berkeley store has a better selection on vinyl whereas, oddly enough, the SF stores does not. 
   
  -M!


Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
  
On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

> Another FAQ, that I co-incidentally need answered is
> Where is there a good music store in the bay area that has a good 
> stock of 20th century music? I'm looking for something more 
> adventurous than they sell in the south bay...which seems to stop 
> exactly where the line between public domain and copywritten 
> material begins...

Both Amoebas are pretty well stocked, the street light in Noe valley 
has a lot of rare 20 century vinyl for some reason, at reasonable 
prices.
I have been getting a lot from emusic.com they have mode, col lengo, 
harmonia mundi and a lot of other great labels. it is often less than 
$2 for an album that would be a $20 import.



Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


       
---------------------------------
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From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Tue Oct  9 10:05:32 2007
From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:05:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 20th century sheet music store
In-Reply-To: <300387.72834.qm@web58702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <300387.72834.qm@web58702.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6D9838BD-15B1-45F5-B867-2448BDE73407@balancepointacoustics.com>

I misread the subject line. I really miss tupper and reed, when you  
could walk in and get a Xenakis or Cage  score.
On Oct 9, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Moe! Staiano wrote:

> Wait, are you looking for sheet music or just CD's? If CD's, then,  
> yeah, I agree with Damon: both Amoeba stores have a great selection  
> of 20th (and 21st Century music). The Berkeley store has a better  
> selection on vinyl whereas, oddly enough, the SF stores does not.
>
>   -M!
>
>
> Damon Smith <Damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:43 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote:
>
>> Another FAQ, that I co-incidentally need answered is
>> Where is there a good music store in the bay area that has a good
>> stock of 20th century music? I'm looking for something more
>> adventurous than they sell in the south bay...which seems to stop
>> exactly where the line between public domain and copywritten
>> material begins...
>
> Both Amoebas are pretty well stocked, the street light in Noe valley
> has a lot of rare 20 century vinyl for some reason, at reasonable
> prices.
> I have been getting a lot from emusic.com they have mode, col lengo,
> harmonia mundi and a lot of other great labels. it is often less than
> $2 for an album that would be a $20 import.
>
>
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> New solo project:
> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel  
> today!
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 10:32:48 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <C7E21C0A-55B2-4790-8400-9DFE6726A6A9@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <488185.96424.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

--- David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com> wrote:
> Reading the book, you're compelled to reference your
> own experience.  Experience is also what the book
> reveals to be fundamental to what each of us defines
> as music, perhaps the "chilling" element Weasel
> refers
> to.  Non-idiomatic improvisation will never be music
> to
> the masses.  According to the research, you're only
> going to get that shot of dopamine when a musician
> tickles something you're already familiar with. 
> That
> pretty much narrows it down to musical explorers and
> "tone scientists" (to borrow from Sun Ra).  As I
> concluded
> in my review, we may be the only audience for our
> music.

Great!  I'll definitely give it read.  I've been
giving this a lot of though recently anyway, the "what
is music?" bit, which you posed in your article. 
Obviously subjective, but still worth exploring,
especially in our genre, in which there is an emphasis
on pushing the boundaries of what is music.  You push
and push, but it IS able to break, fall off the cliff,
so to speak.  It is what makes this music great, but
is also it's pitfall.  No boundaries means you're free
to fall off that cliff at any time (or even worse,
just dissolve into a quivering mass of goo).

I've been trying lately to just listen to music and
just listen and enjoy it, without studying it, which
is hard as a musician to do.  I often find myself
listening to something really gnarly or difficult or
so-called "boundary-breaking", studying it intensely,
and then at a certain point think, "Gee, I'm really
not enjoying listening to this."  DOH!  So then what
do you do?


Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44


       
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From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  9 12:41:46 2007
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] slusser's article
In-Reply-To: <1191880105.29E1F3C1@be12.dngr.org>
Message-ID: <588695.91585.qm@web58005.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


--- decker <decker at resipiscent.com> wrote:
> Just saying, 

Dude!  Less jargon please.  Okay, I am wading through
it because I think you actually are saying somthing

beware the application of fMRI studies
> to aesthetics 

?????

and 
> ethics, evolutionary psychology tells you about a
> minute fraction of 
> subjective experience, the fraction that would
> equally apply to 
> cro-magnon as to pee-wee herman which is to say, not
> the most 
> interesting part. 

Aha!  Ok, that I understand.  However, here's
something to think about in terms of general human
behaviour.  In my experience, at the base of all human
behaviour you will generally find the same set of
triggers.  All our triggers are set at different
levels, depending on our experience, and we hopefully
learn to respond maturely and intelligently to these
triggers (good luck), but at the base it is all more
or less the same.  So with music, although we all have
very different relationships to music, I think at base
there is maybe just a handful of basic triggers
happen