From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Sat Sep 1 23:30:33 2007 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (damon) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 23:30:33 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Free Download: Wooley/Radding/Smith/Walter Message-ID: <7D0077E5-8D78-4EDC-BAC4-800548845950@balancepointacoustics.com> http://www.reubenradding.com/12.html Part of the The 12 in 2007 Project from Pine Ear Music Pine Ear will release a new album-length project every month in 2007 via free download. SEPTEMBER RADDING/SMITH/WALTER/WOOLEY reuben RADDING - contrabass, damon SMITH - contrabass, weasel WALTER - drums, nate WOOLEY - trumpet Recorded by Reuben Radding at Studio STATS, Brooklyn, NY February 2007 Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From weaselw at juno.com Sun Sep 2 17:40:11 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 17:40:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] last night at 21 grand Message-ID: <20070902.174012.1308.115.weaselw@juno.com> i was pleased to see a lot of new music list folks at the xbxrx/old time relijun/mute socialite/cryptacize gig last night. if anybody didn't get enough xbxrx, here's a full length set from bakersfield a few months back with me on bass instead of drums . . . http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4NeB9_38hE ww From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Sun Sep 2 17:39:22 2007 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 17:39:22 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] last night at 21 grand In-Reply-To: <20070902.174012.1308.115.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070902.174012.1308.115.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <65C4D7C1-4AD3-4397-8102-43C048B9F7EE@balancepointacoustics.com> I am going to try to make it tonight. On Sep 2, 2007, at 5:40 PM, weasel walter wrote: > i was pleased to see a lot of new music list folks at the xbxrx/old > time > relijun/mute socialite/cryptacize gig last night. > > if anybody didn't get enough xbxrx, here's a full length set from > bakersfield a few months back with me on bass instead of drums . . . > > http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4NeB9_38hE > > ww > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun Sep 2 21:12:01 2007 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 21:12:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] last night at 21 grand In-Reply-To: <20070902.174012.1308.115.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <000001c7ede0$97e03920$4001a8c0@PG> I had a gig so I got there late, but I caught the xbxrx set and it was fantastic - Weasel completely lit the whole thing on fire. Glad I popped in, I almost didn't come because I thought I would be too late... Phillip Greenlief c/o Evander Music PO Box 22158 Oakland, CA 94623-9991 www.evandermusic.com -----Original Message----- From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of weasel walter Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:40 PM To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Subject: [NewMusic] last night at 21 grand i was pleased to see a lot of new music list folks at the xbxrx/old time relijun/mute socialite/cryptacize gig last night. if anybody didn't get enough xbxrx, here's a full length set from bakersfield a few months back with me on bass instead of drums . . . http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4NeB9_38hE ww _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From cypod25 at gmail.com Mon Sep 3 00:36:08 2007 From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 00:36:08 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] [NewMsusic] Labour Day Podcast Message-ID: <473c28030709030036i3a729dcdr3451b3e903e096a2@mail.gmail.com> Hey just wanted to offer up some electronic sounds for you Labour day listening pleasure http://odeo.com/channel/339043/ Choice cuts from netlabels artists: crankshaft (Kahvi), evan valentine (Kikapu), and cypod (Drum Machine Museum) -- B~ www.cypod.co.nr From michaelz at zoka.com Mon Sep 3 09:56:58 2007 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:56:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Salad bowl speaker array Message-ID: A Labor Day project 4 U. . . Make your own Wessel/CNMAT-like spherical speaker array on the cheap: MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From mattdavignon at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 00:23:58 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 00:23:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Willie Winant email or Leticia Castaneda cell Message-ID: Hi all, I'm looking for Willie Winant's email address. Anyone have? Also seeking Leticia Castaneda's cell phone, regarding her arrival for SFEMF. If you have either, please respond off list. Thanks! Matt From weaselw at juno.com Tue Sep 4 10:31:46 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:31:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] anybody got some studio monitors to sell? Message-ID: <20070904.103147.1308.148.weaselw@juno.com> is there any chance on here that anybody has a pair of Yamaha HS50M 5" Powered Studio Monitors (or equal quality_ they want to sell me? thanks, ww From matt at sfsound.org Tue Sep 4 11:24:58 2007 From: matt at sfsound.org (matt) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:24:58 +0200 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: New Reich CD References: Message-ID: <12E98A8F-DEFD-4022-B176-2748450ED500@sfsound.org> Begin forwarded message: > From: Bill Ryan > Date: September 4, 2007 4:45:55 PM GMT+02:00 > To: Matt Ingalls > Subject: New Reich CD > > Hi Matt, > > Here is a link to a 4-minute CD trailer I made concerning our New > Music Ensemble's upcoming release of Steve Reich's "Music for 18 > Musicians". > > http://newmusicensemble.org/media/files/srcdtrailer.mov > > Please pass it on to anyone you think may be interested. > > Thanks, and I hope all is well with you. > > --Bill > m@ From michaelz at zoka.com Tue Sep 4 12:27:54 2007 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:27:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: >This summer, Columbia Records began a program called Big Red. The >company invited 20 college students from Harvard, Penn State and the >University of Miami to work on various music projects. The interns >concentrated mostly on the digital marketing and promotions >departments in Columbia's offices in Midtown Manhattan, which are on >Madison Avenue in a granite skyscraper designed by Philip Johnson. > >At the end of their paid internships, the students took part in >focus groups that were closely observed by Steve Barnett, Rubin's >co-head at the label, and Mark DiDia, whom Rubin brought in as head >of operations, as well as by other Columbia executives. The focus >groups may have been the real point of Big Red - Barnett and the New >York executives, especially those who had been at Sony for years, >wanted to try to take the pulse of the elusive music audience. "The >Big Red focus groups were both depressing and informative, and they >confirmed what I - and Rick - already knew," DiDia told me >afterward. "The kids all said that a) no one listens to the radio >anymore, b) they mostly steal music, but they don't consider it >stealing, and c) they get most of their music from iTunes on their >iPod. They told us that MySpace is over, it's just not cool anymore; >Facebook is still cool, but that might not last much longer; and the >biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >about music, bands, everything." Full story: From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 12:56:35 2007 From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... -M! Michael Zelner wrote: From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: >This summer, Columbia Records began a program called Big Red. The >company invited 20 college students from Harvard, Penn State and the >University of Miami to work on various music projects. The interns >concentrated mostly on the digital marketing and promotions >departments in Columbia's offices in Midtown Manhattan, which are on >Madison Avenue in a granite skyscraper designed by Philip Johnson. > >At the end of their paid internships, the students took part in >focus groups that were closely observed by Steve Barnett, Rubin's >co-head at the label, and Mark DiDia, whom Rubin brought in as head >of operations, as well as by other Columbia executives. The focus >groups may have been the real point of Big Red - Barnett and the New >York executives, especially those who had been at Sony for years, >wanted to try to take the pulse of the elusive music audience. "The >Big Red focus groups were both depressing and informative, and they >confirmed what I - and Rick - already knew," DiDia told me >afterward. "The kids all said that a) no one listens to the radio >anymore, b) they mostly steal music, but they don't consider it >stealing, and c) they get most of their music from iTunes on their >iPod. They told us that MySpace is over, it's just not cool anymore; >Facebook is still cool, but that might not last much longer; and the >biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >about music, bands, everything." Full story: _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. From weaselw at juno.com Tue Sep 4 13:10:59 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:10:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> the sanctimonious drivel that rick rubin espouses is hilarious. major labels are so fucking clueless, they need this self-professed "no talent" to come in and tell them what's cool or if they need an extra "percussion element" in their song, ad nauseam. the labels are so utterly disconnected to reality on every practical level that it boggles my mind. apparently the easiest way to survive in "the industry" is to sell snake oil and do whatever the evil braintrust of corporate scientists have deemed profitable through their research. the american music business/scene/paradigm is indeed going through an insane upheaval. the biggest problem is how utterly saturated the field of music is. people have too many choices and it's creating widespread apathy. of course, i keep stating this here about once every two weeks like a broken record. what's the answer? hopefully there will be a virus that decreases the musician population or something. we can only hope. that is my hope for the future and i'm clinging to it! ww On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Moe! Staiano writes: > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > -M! > > > Michael Zelner wrote: > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > >This summer, Columbia Records began a program called Big Red. The > >company invited 20 college students from Harvard, Penn State and > the > >University of Miami to work on various music projects. The interns > > >concentrated mostly on the digital marketing and promotions > >departments in Columbia's offices in Midtown Manhattan, which are > on > >Madison Avenue in a granite skyscraper designed by Philip Johnson. > > > >At the end of their paid internships, the students took part in > >focus groups that were closely observed by Steve Barnett, Rubin's > >co-head at the label, and Mark DiDia, whom Rubin brought in as head > > >of operations, as well as by other Columbia executives. The focus > >groups may have been the real point of Big Red - Barnett and the > New > >York executives, especially those who had been at Sony for years, > >wanted to try to take the pulse of the elusive music audience. "The > > >Big Red focus groups were both depressing and informative, and they > > >confirmed what I - and Rick - already knew," DiDia told me > >afterward. "The kids all said that a) no one listens to the radio > >anymore, b) they mostly steal music, but they don't consider it > >stealing, and c) they get most of their music from iTunes on their > > >iPod. They told us that MySpace is over, it's just not cool > anymore; > >Facebook is still cool, but that might not last much longer; and > the > >biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear > > >about music, bands, everything." > > Full story: > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > ilman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone > who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From bthrew at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 13:31:47 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:31:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <6E3DF507-1075-4869-A78B-2ECD7CA52580@gmail.com> Somehow I don't think the bird flu is a solution to our problems. b On Sep 4, 2007, at 1:10 PM, weasel walter wrote: > the sanctimonious drivel that rick rubin espouses is hilarious. major > labels are so fucking clueless, they need this self-professed "no > talent" > to come in and tell them what's cool or if they need an extra > "percussion > element" in their song, ad nauseam. the labels are so utterly > disconnected to reality on every practical level that it boggles my > mind. > apparently the easiest way to survive in "the industry" is to sell > snake > oil and do whatever the evil braintrust of corporate scientists have > deemed profitable through their research. > > the american music business/scene/paradigm is indeed going through an > insane upheaval. the biggest problem is how utterly saturated the > field > of music is. people have too many choices and it's creating widespread > apathy. of course, i keep stating this here about once every two weeks > like a broken record. what's the answer? hopefully there will be a > virus > that decreases the musician population or something. we can only hope. > > that is my hope for the future and i'm clinging to it! > > ww > > On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 12:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Moe! Staiano > writes: >> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >> >> -M! >> >> >> Michael Zelner wrote: >> From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: >> >>> This summer, Columbia Records began a program called Big Red. The >>> company invited 20 college students from Harvard, Penn State and >> the >>> University of Miami to work on various music projects. The interns >> >>> concentrated mostly on the digital marketing and promotions >>> departments in Columbia's offices in Midtown Manhattan, which are >> on >>> Madison Avenue in a granite skyscraper designed by Philip Johnson. >>> >>> At the end of their paid internships, the students took part in >>> focus groups that were closely observed by Steve Barnett, Rubin's >>> co-head at the label, and Mark DiDia, whom Rubin brought in as head >> >>> of operations, as well as by other Columbia executives. The focus >>> groups may have been the real point of Big Red - Barnett and the >> New >>> York executives, especially those who had been at Sony for years, >>> wanted to try to take the pulse of the elusive music audience. "The >> >>> Big Red focus groups were both depressing and informative, and they >> >>> confirmed what I - and Rick - already knew," DiDia told me >>> afterward. "The kids all said that a) no one listens to the radio >>> anymore, b) they mostly steal music, but they don't consider it >>> stealing, and c) they get most of their music from iTunes on their >> >>> iPod. They told us that MySpace is over, it's just not cool >> anymore; >>> Facebook is still cool, but that might not last much longer; and >> the >>> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >> >>> about music, bands, everything." >> >> Full story: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> ilman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone >> who knows. >> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From mattdavignon at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 13:32:59 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:32:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: I think what Rick Rubin does in the industry is a pretty important and mostly missing element. I wouldn't necessarily make the same choices that he makes, but I do appreciate his position on a few things. (For example, writing songs 'for the ages' rather than to finish an album.) I think one of the main reasons that record labels are in danger now is because nobody is currently making decisions based on the music. I'm still surprised by how little popular music has changed since the 90's. That's touched upon in the article: "There was a time when if you had something that wasn't so good, through muscle and lack of other choices, you could push that not very good product through those channels. ... Well, the world has changed. And the industry has not" I kind of see Rick Rubin as a throwback to early record label heads who were originally music geeks. Matt From mattdavignon at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 13:33:54 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 13:33:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <6E3DF507-1075-4869-A78B-2ECD7CA52580@gmail.com> References: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> <6E3DF507-1075-4869-A78B-2ECD7CA52580@gmail.com> Message-ID: Speaking of bird flu, I really like the new MIA song & youtube video of the same name. ("Bird Flu") On 9/4/07, barry threw wrote: > Somehow I don't think the bird flu is a solution to our problems. > > b From tim at perkis.com Tue Sep 4 14:22:17 2007 From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:22:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> Moe! Staiano wrote: > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > -M! > > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. What is 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that these focus group people are finding out about everything by 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's really an exciting development. > Michael Zelner wrote: > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > > >> ...and the >> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >> about music, bands, everything." >> > > Full story: > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From grobair at emusician.com Tue Sep 4 14:31:23 2007 From: grobair at emusician.com (grobair at emusician.com) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 14:31:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. Message-ID: Nothing in that article should surprise people on this list (or at least the ones in the Bay Area who are paying attention). Those intern kids say MySpace is dead, but here they are, interning for a major label! WTF -- they're the dumb-asses, because major labels are history. Start your own label from nothing and build an empire of bitchin' bands. Don't model the dinosaur majors. You don't have to have lived with them to avoid repeating history... Most of us probably agree that the best music is being made by folks who don't have much or any label support. And thanks to that passe medium of MySpace, you don't need the old-boys network of label/radio station/major magazine to tell you what's good or not. Just poke around the various pages until you find that kick-ass noise band in Cleveland and check out their stuff for free. Wiping out the majority of the musician pool isn't the solution, either, because you're likely to lose the better half! And you might even be one of the unlucky few getting wiped, thus receiving your slice of karma. (I agree that there are worse people in the industry than Rick Rubin. At least he still likes music.) DJ Matty D sez: <> From Hooker99 at aol.com Tue Sep 4 14:45:25 2007 From: Hooker99 at aol.com (Hooker99 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:45:25 EDT Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. Message-ID: Am I the only person that thinks that what Rick Rubin did with a dying Johnny Cash had some great moments? Or the beats for Jay-Z's 99 Problems? Or the early Beastie Boy stuff? That major record companies are scrambling to understand a changing distribution model is good news. The RIAA is like an old railroad company. The end is near. I have benefited a lot from the basically free fluidity of the Internet (once you subtract the cost of a connect, the computer and the actual making of sound) ... as have all of us who post YouTube links ... there may only be 50 people in NY, or 25 in SF, or 30 in Paris who dig what I'm doing, but connecting Lincoln NE with Williamsburg has been good for me ... my focus group has always been small ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From mattdavignon at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 15:05:39 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:05:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> References: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> Message-ID: Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is not about signing bands that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. Instead, they're trying to generate artificial buzz about groups that aren't getting any. That part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told by your job to go out and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver is awesome. "I think that band Train is doing something totally original. They're absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' music!" Matt > Moe! Staiano moped: > > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > > > -M! > > Then Tim Perkis was like: > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. What is > 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that > these focus group people are finding out about everything by > 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being > pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's > really an exciting development. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Tue Sep 4 15:12:01 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 15:12:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A3B8CAD-DBE9-47E6-A324-754236721393@matthewgoodheart.com> Does Rubin remind anyone else of a bastard child of Karl Marx and Rasputin? Perhaps in more than just looks. . . One of the interesting things that is revealed through the article is the documentation of some of the outright deceptive practices of the industry: > "The CD debuted at No. 4," Rubin told me at Hugo's, still sounding > upset. "It was the highest debut of Neil's career, off to a great > start. But Columbia ? it was some kind of corporate thing ? had put > spyware on the CD. That kept people from copying it, but it also > somehow recorded information about whoever bought the record. The > spyware became public knowledge, and people freaked out. and perhaps more importantly: > . . .he has also set up a "word of mouth" department, which will > probably employ some members of the Big Red focus group along with > dozens of other 20-somethings. The "word of mouth" department will > function as a publicity-promotional arm of the company, spreading > commissioned buzz through chat rooms across the planet and through > old-fashioned human interaction. What Rubin is setting up here is an actively deceptive campaign, where industry representative pose as "peers" on discussion groups to, chat rooms, etc. This is hardly new, and is commonly used by all sorts of industries: it's nicely documented in the 2001 Frontline documentary "Merchants of Cool" (particularly Chapter 2 "Under-the-Radar marketing"). With the great increase of Guerilla and Stealth marketing, you literally cannot trust who you are talking to- even in person, sometimes. (for that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if some folks occasionally monitored this list. . . fortunately we're a lousy market. . .) I'm sure none of this is really new to anyone here. It's just interesting how 1) here it comes straight from the industry's mouth, and 2) how it is glossed over in the article. It's mentioned, but really as a kind of wry, ironic aside. As Gino points out, starting one's own label is pretty feasible these days, and I wouldn't be surprised if, barring the ability to assert overt control over the "product" and its distribution, the industry tries to mask itself as a whole consortium of "indie" labels, download sites, etc. As noted in the article, the industry has already tried to horn in on the artist's profits through taking percentage of t-shirt sales on tours, etc. It's something I've wondered about: when being "Columbia" turns from a benefit into a negative, "Columbia" ceases to exits, the two-tier internet system arrives, and "Rick's Grass-Roots Indie Music" site pops up. . . eventually buying up things like CDBaby and emusic. . . trying to find ways of trying to sell us back to ourselves, keeping who they really are completely under the radar. mg From tim at perkis.com Tue Sep 4 15:35:47 2007 From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:35:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> Message-ID: <46DDDDC3.1030701@perkis.com> yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- this response to the dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development of 'stealth marketing', where they hire cool looking people to go to hip bars and talk about something they want to sell, with the intention of being overheard. That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a way that the most intrusive advertising in the past never did. I read an article about the incredibly successful stealth marketing campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which depended on the making sure that no one knew that there even WAS a campaign for it... the old 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, as they think, because they are just so outside of the mainstream, but actually because they are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth marketing.... waaaay creepy T Matt Davignon wrote: > Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is not about signing bands > that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. Instead, they're trying > to generate artificial buzz about groups that aren't getting any. That > part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told by your job to go out > and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver is awesome. > > "I think that band Train is doing something totally original. They're > absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' music!" > > Matt > > >> Moe! Staiano moped: >> >>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>> >>> -M! >>> >>> > > Then Tim Perkis was like: > >> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. What is >> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that >> these focus group people are finding out about everything by >> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being >> pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's >> really an exciting development. >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From jfheule at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 16:22:26 2007 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:22:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Breakthrough in Grey Room playlist: 2007 Aug 29 Message-ID: <9c5cfa860709041622r335334e7i3d0095a5f1129c64@mail.gmail.com> This week's show is tonight, 11:59pm-3am (Tue. night/Wed. morning). 90.3 FM San Francisco or online: http://heule.us/breakthrough/ (click "Online Broadcast") MaryClare Brzytwa joins Jacob Felix Heule on Breakthrough in Grey Room for solo and duo performances, guest DJing and intimate conversation. http://myspace.com/maryclarebrzytwa + http://myspace.com/jacobfelix Playlist from the last show: 2007 Aug 29 the Bran (Another plight of medic's...) Pos, "Garbogantua," Amantis Incongrue [Chitah! Chitah! Soundcrack, 2000] Douglas Lilburn, "Three Film Excerpts (3)," Electro-acoustic Works [Atoll, 2004] Metaxu, "St Petersburg," Rumors of... War [No Type, 2003] Bernard Parmegiani, "L'Instant Mobile," Chronos [Philips/Prospective 21e Si?cle, 1972] Bruno Nicolai, "Immateriale," Tutti I Colori Del Buio (All the Colors of the Dark) [Gemelli, 1972 / DigitMovies, 2004] White Lichens, #5, White Lichens [Holy Mountain, 2007] Charles Bukowski, "Death," Poems and Insults (1973) Brown Cuts Neighbors, "I Am A Mensch," various - The Necessary Effect: Screamers Songs Interpreted [Xeroid/Extravertigo, 2002] Evan Parker, "Haine's Last Tape," The Snake Decides [Incus, 1986] Anton Webern, "2 Lieder op. 19 for mixed choir, I," Complete Webern [Deutsche Grammophon, 2000] Anton Webern, "2 Lieder op. 19 for mixed choir, II," Complete Webern [Deutsche Grammophon, 2000] Mathias Spahlinger, Extension, part 2, Extension 1979-1980 [Hat Hut, 1994] Lo Ka Ping, "Returning Home," Lost Sounds of the Tao: Chinese Masters of the Giqin in Historic Recordings [World Arbiter, 2002] unknown, "Sawung Galing," various - Music of Indonesia, vol. 1: East Java: Songs Before Dawn: Gandrung Banyuwangi [Smithsonian Folkways, 1991] Don Cherry, "Humus - The Life Exploring Force," Actions [Philips/Wergo, 1977] Anthony Braxton, "Composition 355 - Part 1," 9 Composition (Iridium) [Firehouse12, 2007] unknown, "T'aep'yongso & Samulnori," various - Traditional Korean Music Derek Bailey & Min Tanaka, "Saturday Dance II," Music and Dance [1980, & Revenant, 1996] Vibracathedral Orchestra, #6, Hollin [self-released, 2000] Ilya Monosov, "Architectures in Air," Architectures in Air [Elevator Bath, 2005] Enslaved, "Loke," Frost [Osmose, 1994] Fennesz, Kurzmann, Dafeldecker & Siewert, "Bern," Dafeldecker/Kurzmann/Fennesz [Charhizma, 1999] Graveland, "Intro (Day of Fury)," Immortal Pride Franz Hautzinger & Mazen Kerbaj, "Abu Tarek," Abu Tarek [Creatives Sources, 2005] Boris Hauf, "Put the Man Back in Romance," Soft Left onto Westland [Mosz, 2005] Devo, "Jocko Homo (O-Hi-O Version)," Be Stiff EP [1978] (please contact me if you have corrections to the listed information) http://heule.us/breakthrough/ From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 16:24:09 2007 From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> Message-ID: <227795.3055.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> No, the word of mouth thing is good depending on what it is. The depletion of radio is depressing is what I was trying to reference. I think radio is a hugely important medium (I listen to it every day, though, oops, I'm not a college student), and to hear people say that no one listens to radio is depressing. I've been exposed to a lot of music from the radio and enjoy listening to it. I would hate so see that go altogether. -M! Tim Perkis wrote: Moe! Staiano wrote: > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > -M! > > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. What is 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that these focus group people are finding out about everything by 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's really an exciting development. > Michael Zelner wrote: > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > > >> ...and the >> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >> about music, bands, everything." >> > > Full story: > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 16:26:07 2007 From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> Message-ID: <814927.91622.qm@web58704.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Annnnnd of course I also mostly referring to left of the dial college stations and NPR. -M! Tim Perkis wrote: Moe! Staiano wrote: > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > -M! > > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. What is 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that these focus group people are finding out about everything by 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's really an exciting development. > Michael Zelner wrote: > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > > >> ...and the >> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >> about music, bands, everything." >> > > Full story: > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! From tim at perkis.com Tue Sep 4 16:30:17 2007 From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:30:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <227795.3055.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <227795.3055.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46DDEA89.6000307@perkis.com> ok, I'm convinced -- it is depressing! T Moe! Staiano wrote: > No, the word of mouth thing is good depending on what it is. The > depletion of radio is depressing is what I was trying to reference. I > think radio is a hugely important medium (I listen to it every day, > though, oops, I'm not a college student), and to hear people say that > no one listens to radio is depressing. I've been exposed to a lot of > music from the radio and enjoy listening to it. I would hate so see > that go altogether. > > -M! > > > */Tim Perkis /* wrote: > > Moe! Staiano wrote: > > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > > > -M! > > > > > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. > What is > 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that > these focus group people are finding out about everything by > 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being > pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's > really an exciting development. > > > > Michael Zelner wrote: > > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > > > > > > >> ...and the > >> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear > >> about music, bands, everything." > >> > > > > Full story: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from > someone who knows. > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user > panel > > and lay it on us. From weaselw at juno.com Tue Sep 4 16:39:45 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 16:39:45 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: <20070904.163946.1308.164.weaselw@juno.com> THIN THE HERD. ww On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 16:30:17 -0700 Tim Perkis writes: > ok, I'm convinced -- it is depressing! > > T > > > > Moe! Staiano wrote: > > No, the word of mouth thing is good depending on what it is. The > > depletion of radio is depressing is what I was trying to > reference. I > > think radio is a hugely important medium (I listen to it every > day, > > though, oops, I'm not a college student), and to hear people say > that > > no one listens to radio is depressing. I've been exposed to a lot > of > > music from the radio and enjoy listening to it. I would hate so > see > > that go altogether. > > > > -M! > > > > > > */Tim Perkis /* wrote: > > > > Moe! Staiano wrote: > > > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > > > > > -M! > > > > > > > > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely > hopeful. > > What is > > 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact > that > > these focus group people are finding out about everything by > > 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's > being > > pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me > that's > > really an exciting development. > > > > > > > Michael Zelner wrote: > > > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...and the > > >> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how > they hear > > >> about music, bands, everything." > > >> > > > > > > Full story: > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers > from > > someone who knows. > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s > user > > panel > > > > > > and lay it on us. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Sep 4 17:00:13 2007 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:00:13 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. Message-ID: A friend of mine from college had the theory that if art were illegal, more of it would be better. Reading the article made me realize how much crap (in my opinion) Mr. Rubin was already responsible for! sl Gino the "zen master" wrote: Wiping out the majority of the musician pool isn't the solution, either, because you're likely to lose the better half! And you might even be one of the unlucky few getting wiped, thus receiving your slice of karma. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 17:14:48 2007 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:14:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, regardless of the things that Rubin thinks are good, he seems to be against the "have two well written, well produced songs, and fill the rest of the cd up with whatever" model that's prevalent in pop music. On 9/4/07, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > A friend of mine from college had the theory that if art were illegal, more > of it would be better. > > Reading the article made me realize how much crap (in my opinion) Mr. Rubin > was already responsible for! > > sl > > Gino the "zen master" wrote: > Wiping out the majority of the musician pool isn't the solution, either, > because you're likely to lose the better half! And you might even be one of > the unlucky few getting wiped, thus receiving your slice of karma. > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Sep 4 17:31:49 2007 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:31:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: - nope, my vote is for the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh crossed with Malcolm Gladwell. sl Matt Goodheart asked: Does Rubin remind anyone else of a bastard child of Karl Marx and Rasputin? Perhaps in more than just looks. . . From weaselw at juno.com Tue Sep 4 18:01:04 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:01:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. Message-ID: <20070904.180136.1308.173.weaselw@juno.com> well judging by the pieces of "two hits and a bunch of filler" shit he produced with, say, the red hot sucky peppers, his actions contradict his words. i don't believe that the model below is the norm even in pop. it seemed way more prevalent in the '60s and '70s. listen to early stones albums (or, their all-filler record "black and blue") for examples. (the trend now for top 40 albums is to overblow them into 74 minute epics where about half of it is blatant filler - but that still leaves about 37 minutes of pure solid gold!) people love to perpetuate those kinds of industry myths because it allows them the self-perception that they're "above" something. it's as trite as saying that the sky is blue. i'm not singling out rick rubin here, but america has this really big problem with it's dumbest people walking around thinking they're "smarter" than everyone else. the most condescending people i meet these days are usually also the most inarticulate and unintelligent ones to boot. it's very fucking weird. i'm rambling, but probably because i'm inarticulate, unintelligent and condescending. ww On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 17:14:48 -0700 "Matt Davignon" writes: > Well, regardless of the things that Rubin thinks are good, he seems > to be against the "have two well written, well produced songs, and > fill the rest of the cd up with whatever" model that's prevalent in pop > music. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Tue Sep 4 18:22:57 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 18:22:57 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How about Moses and Davy Jones from the Pirates movie? Maybe the Pandit Pran Nath on the cover of Raga Cycle and Dr. Zaius. . . On Sep 4, 2007, at 5:31 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > - nope, my vote is for the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh crossed with Malcolm > Gladwell. > > sl > > Matt Goodheart asked: > Does Rubin remind anyone else of a bastard child of Karl Marx and > Rasputin? Perhaps in more than just looks. . . > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Tue Sep 4 19:25:31 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 19:25:31 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. In-Reply-To: <20070904.180136.1308.173.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070904.180136.1308.173.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <6022C621-BEB9-498D-9088-1D3A05C7F08A@matthewgoodheart.com> On Sep 4, 2007, at 6:01 PM, weasel walter wrote: > (the trend now for top 40 albums is to overblow them into 74 minute > epics where about half of it is blatant filler - but that still > leaves about 37 > minutes of pure solid gold!) Yeah, and not just pop. . . jazz, improv, folk, etc. etc., all those alternate takes they put on reissues of old albums. . . Personally I think about 45 min is the perfect length for a CD-(with some notable exceptions, of course.) Tangentially, the "death of the album" works great for some kinds of music. I've been getting in to the SaReGaMa series on emusic- each "album" is a raga- ranges from 3 min to 40. Long music like this works well outside of the "album" format. Even the reissues: the Dagar Brother's Rag Kambhoji: 2 downloads total for the alap and dhrupad- about a penny a minute of music. . . mg From cypod25 at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 20:48:57 2007 From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 20:48:57 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <227795.3055.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> <227795.3055.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <473c28030709042048m7a63f86csd11bdea88743ddee@mail.gmail.com> As a teen I was hugely influenced by college radio, and then went on to DJ on my college station. That experience really turned be off to radio; and moved me over to the dark side, Internet radio. Internet Radio has way better selection, you have all your local radio stations plus every where else's stations, all over the world. Not to mention XM. These days it seem like consumers just have a lot more choices, about what they want to listen to. If you ask me, musical variety is good, as these cultural styles hybridize and spin off of each other, creating exponential permutations. Opening the door to real stylistic innovations and originality. Can the "Industry" make money, and build institutions that foster musical development? I hope so. As an X-direct marketer, its not as glamorous as it seems. But at least you get to go to a lot of clubs for free. On 9/4/07, Moe! Staiano wrote: > > No, the word of mouth thing is good depending on what it is. The depletion > of radio is depressing is what I was trying to reference. I think radio is a > hugely important medium (I listen to it every day, though, oops, I'm not a > college student), and to hear people say that no one listens to radio is > depressing. I've been exposed to a lot of music from the radio and enjoy > listening to it. I would hate so see that go altogether. > > -M! > > > Tim Perkis wrote: > Moe! Staiano wrote: > > Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > > > > -M! > > > > > This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. What is > 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that > these focus group people are finding out about everything by > 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being > pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's > really an exciting development. > > > > Michael Zelner wrote: > > From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: > > > > > > > >> ...and the > >> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear > >> about music, bands, everything." > >> > > > > Full story: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who > knows. > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > --------------------------------- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user > panel and lay it on us. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- B~ www.cypod.co.nr From lseltzer at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Sep 4 21:01:33 2007 From: lseltzer at alumni.caltech.edu (Linda Seltzer) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <1379.69.225.198.138.1188964893.squirrel@mail.alumni.caltech.edu> > > the american music business/scene/paradigm is indeed going through an > insane upheaval. the biggest problem is how utterly saturated the field > of music is. Given the conditions of the American economy today (25% of jobs last less than 1 year, stock market crashes in 2000-2002 and again now, crash of the telecom industry, export of jobs overseas, 9/11, etc.) and given that so many people have inadequate or a complete lack of health insurance, Americans do not have the discretionary income they had twn years ago. People who thought they had $750,000 in a 401K suddenly had $75K. Michael Moore's film was accurate about health costs. Add student loan debt to all of this. Take your average person graduating from high school and looking for a job rather than going to college, or working and going to night school. Such a person probably does not have health insurance and could be earning less than $10/hr. Any weakness in sales of music is due to the fact that the average family does not have discretionary income any more. Housing, utilities, food, gasoline and medical care are more than many families can take. Small businesses of all kinds are being wiped out. Small business in music isn't different from any other type of small business. From bthrew at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 21:02:08 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:02:08 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <46DDDDC3.1030701@perkis.com> References: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> <46DDDDC3.1030701@perkis.com> Message-ID: You fail to mention the fact that it is a fantastic beer, for a dollar often. b On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: > yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- this response to the > dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development of 'stealth > marketing', > where they hire cool looking people to go to hip bars and talk about > something they want to sell, with the intention of being overheard. > That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a way that the most > intrusive advertising in the past never did. > > I read an article about the incredibly successful stealth marketing > campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which depended on the > making > sure that no one knew that there even WAS a campaign for it... the old > 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, as they think, > because > they are just so outside of the mainstream, but actually because they > are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth marketing.... waaaay > creepy > > T > > > > Matt Davignon wrote: >> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is not about signing bands >> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. Instead, they're trying >> to generate artificial buzz about groups that aren't getting any. >> That >> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told by your job to go out >> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver is awesome. >> >> "I think that band Train is doing something totally original. They're >> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' music!" >> >> Matt >> >> >>> Moe! Staiano moped: >>> >>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>>> >>>> -M! >>>> >>>> >> >> Then Tim Perkis was like: >> >>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. >>> What is >>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that >>> these focus group people are finding out about everything by >>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being >>> pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's >>> really an exciting development. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From weaselw at juno.com Tue Sep 4 21:13:59 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:13:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: <20070904.211412.1308.179.weaselw@juno.com> > Any weakness in sales of music is due to the fact that the average > family does not have discretionary income any more. Housing, utilities, > food, gasoline and medical care are more than many families can take. > Small businesses of all kinds are being wiped out. Small business > in music isn't different from any other type of small business. yes!!!! thanks for giving the statistics on this. ww From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue Sep 4 21:11:42 2007 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:11:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <473c28030709042048m7a63f86csd11bdea88743ddee@mail.gmail.com> References: <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> <227795.3055.qm@web58703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <473c28030709042048m7a63f86csd11bdea88743ddee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I never liked radio, it is fun to be on the radio, but I have always wanted to make my choices about what I listen to and did my own musical research. On Sep 4, 2007, at 8:48 PM, Cypod wrote: > As a teen I was hugely influenced by college radio, and then > went on > to DJ on my college station. That experience really turned be off > to radio; > and moved me over to the dark side, Internet radio. Internet Radio > has way > better selection, you have all your local radio stations plus every > where > else's stations, all over the world. Not to mention XM. These days > it seem > like consumers just have a lot more choices, about what they want > to listen > to. If you ask me, musical variety is good, as these > cultural styles > hybridize and spin off of each other, creating exponential > permutations. > Opening the door to real stylistic innovations and originality. Can > the > "Industry" make money, and build institutions that foster musical > development? I hope so. > As an X-direct marketer, its not as glamorous as it seems. > But at > least you get to go to a lot of clubs for free. > > > > On 9/4/07, Moe! Staiano wrote: >> >> No, the word of mouth thing is good depending on what it is. The >> depletion >> of radio is depressing is what I was trying to reference. I think >> radio is a >> hugely important medium (I listen to it every day, though, oops, >> I'm not a >> college student), and to hear people say that no one listens to >> radio is >> depressing. I've been exposed to a lot of music from the radio and >> enjoy >> listening to it. I would hate so see that go altogether. >> >> -M! >> >> >> Tim Perkis wrote: >> Moe! Staiano wrote: >>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>> >>> -M! >>> >>> >> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems completely hopeful. >> What is >> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real people? The fact that >> these focus group people are finding out about everything by >> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being influenced by what's being >> pushed, but by what their peers think is interesting. To me that's >> really an exciting development. >> >> >>> Michael Zelner wrote: >>> From Sunday's NY Times Magazine profile of Rick Rubin: >>> >>> >>> >>>> ...and the >>>> biggest thing in their life is word of mouth. That's how they hear >>>> about music, bands, everything." >>>> >>> >>> Full story: >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from >>> someone who >> knows. >>> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s >> user >> panel and lay it on us. >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > B~ > www.cypod.co.nr > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From lseltzer at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Sep 4 21:12:15 2007 From: lseltzer at alumni.caltech.edu (Linda Seltzer) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: <20070904.131101.1308.158.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <1403.69.225.198.138.1188965535.squirrel@mail.alumni.caltech.edu> I worked at a large telephone company's research lab in the late 1990's, when it was contemplating a service to offer music over the Internet. None of the people running it had any knowledge of music and they had no regard for it. Music was referred to as "content," something would get from "content providers." Any thought about what that "content" should be was completely lacking. I had brought up the suggestion that people would want to trasmit their own music and no one there even began to know how to deal with that. The main personal objective of some of the executives was to wangle an invitation to the Grammys. A lot of money was donated to the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame; I assume that the executives wanted to get in with stars they thought were cool. The professional classical music scene in in NY - that's a different story: nepotism, family money, etc. No entree for outsiders from mere academies such as Princeton or Berkeley that let in people who aren't from an influential family. > I think what Rick Rubin does in the industry is a pretty important and > mostly missing element. I wouldn't necessarily make the same choices > that he makes, but I do appreciate his position on a few things. (For > example, writing songs 'for the ages' rather than to finish an album.) > > I think one of the main reasons that record labels are in danger now > is because nobody is currently making decisions based on the music. > I'm still surprised by how little popular music has changed since the > 90's. That's touched upon in the article: "There was a time when if > you had something that wasn't so good, through muscle and lack of > other choices, you could push that not very good product through those > channels. ... Well, the world has changed. And the industry has not" > > I kind of see Rick Rubin as a throwback to early record label heads > who were originally music geeks. > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From slusser at pixar.com Tue Sep 4 21:16:42 2007 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 21:16:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> <46DDDDC3.1030701@perkis.com> Message-ID: Sorry, it's the 2nd to worst crap I've ever tasted, and I've tasted a lot. It stinks, and you'll stink, and everything that comes out of you will stink if you drink even one serving. (I had to live on it for a few years.) On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:02 PM, barry threw wrote: > You fail to mention the fact that it is a fantastic beer, for a > dollar often. > > b > > On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: >> >> I read an article about the incredibly successful stealth marketing >> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which depended on the >> making >> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a campaign for it... the >> old >> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, as they think, >> because >> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but actually because they >> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth marketing.... waaaay >> creepy From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Sep 4 22:43:45 2007 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:43:45 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: I strongly doubt that. If you look at the housing bubble and the increasing quantity of debt in America, the average family will overspend their means, and if you look at the stuff that they have, quite a bit of their spending is discretionary. Do they need a new car? No. Do their kids need the fancy video game machine? No. Do they need to spend $4 on a frappuchino? No. I'm sure we can all make lists of "stupid" ways people "waste" their money. Personally, I spend too much money going out to eat rather than cooking at home. The fact that it is a lot easier to get music for free makes a lot more sense in terms of declining sales. Let's take parking as an example. If you are used to free parking, or if there is a large supply of accessible free parking, are you going to choose to park somewhere you have to pay? Not very often. sl Linda wrote: Any weakness in sales of music is due to the fact that the average family does not have discretionary income any more. Housing, utilities, food, gasoline and medical care are more than many families can take. From slusser at pixar.com Tue Sep 4 22:56:49 2007 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 22:56:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A565C65-574D-4BE0-AA4B-A0E7FC09D423@pixar.com> On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:43 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > I strongly doubt that. If you look at the housing bubble and the > increasing > quantity of debt in America, the average family will overspend > their means, > and if you look at the stuff that they have, quite a bit of their > spending > is discretionary. Do they need a new car? No. Do their kids need > the fancy > video game machine? No. Do they need to spend $4 on a frappuchino? > No. I'm > sure we can all make lists of "stupid" ways people "waste" their > money. > Personally, I spend too much money going out to eat rather than > cooking at > home. > > The fact that it is a lot easier to get music for free makes a lot > more > sense in terms of declining sales. Let's take parking as an > example. If you > are used to free parking, or if there is a large supply of > accessible free > parking, are you going to choose to park somewhere you have to pay? > Not very > often. That's the gist of the focus group - music is free. From letucepry at yahoo.com Tue Sep 4 23:24:25 2007 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. Message-ID: <505820.9587.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >well judging by the pieces of "two hits and a bunch of filler" shit he >produced with, say, the red hot sucky peppers, his actions contradict >his words. say what you want, but if Blood Sugar Sex Magic wasn't an incredibly tight "Pop" album, they wouldn't have spent the last 15 years trying to re-create it (and annoying the shit out of me...) lettuce From cypod25 at gmail.com Tue Sep 4 23:26:32 2007 From: cypod25 at gmail.com (Cypod) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:26:32 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <1A565C65-574D-4BE0-AA4B-A0E7FC09D423@pixar.com> References: <1A565C65-574D-4BE0-AA4B-A0E7FC09D423@pixar.com> Message-ID: <473c28030709042326r2c173c62ve43cc2032fc4e98b@mail.gmail.com> It isn't entirely the consumers fault, the industry has been slow to react. Why not have a music licensing scheme on UTube, where people could pay to license a song to go with their home video. The problem arises when it is more convenient to steal a song than buy it. On 9/4/07, David Slusser wrote: > > On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:43 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > > I strongly doubt that. If you look at the housing bubble and the > > increasing > > quantity of debt in America, the average family will overspend > > their means, > > and if you look at the stuff that they have, quite a bit of their > > spending > > is discretionary. Do they need a new car? No. Do their kids need > > the fancy > > video game machine? No. Do they need to spend $4 on a frappuchino? > > No. I'm > > sure we can all make lists of "stupid" ways people "waste" their > > money. > > Personally, I spend too much money going out to eat rather than > > cooking at > > home. > > > > The fact that it is a lot easier to get music for free makes a lot > > more > > sense in terms of declining sales. Let's take parking as an > > example. If you > > are used to free parking, or if there is a large supply of > > accessible free > > parking, are you going to choose to park somewhere you have to pay? > > Not very > > often. > > That's the gist of the focus group - music is free. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- B~ www.cypod.co.nr From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Wed Sep 5 00:17:28 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:17:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0726AA07-73C4-4005-8BEF-5823C7AADDF4@matthewgoodheart.com> On Sep 4, 2007, at 10:43 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > The fact that it is a lot easier to get music for free makes a lot > more > sense in terms of declining sales. From this month's Harper's Index: Portion of all Internet traffic today that is file sharing of music, films, and videos: 2/3 And a few items about a related industry: Minimum number of different books sold in the U.S. last year, as tracked by Nielsen BookScan: 1,446,000 Number of these that sold fewer than 99 copies: 1,123,000 Number that sold more than 100,000: 483 From weaselw at juno.com Wed Sep 5 00:33:53 2007 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:33:53 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: <20070905.003401.1308.183.weaselw@juno.com> > Minimum number of different books sold in the U.S. last year, as > tracked by Nielsen BookScan: 1,446,000 > Number of these that sold fewer than 99 copies: 1,123,000 > Number that sold more than 100,000: 483 whoa! fuck! that's intense. sounds pretty much like the distibution of wealth in this country . . . hail the stupid godamn free market system (either you're ruling it or eating shit i guess). ww From jmojingle at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 01:58:03 2007 From: jmojingle at yahoo.com (John Ingle) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 01:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] PBR sucks you morons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <169854.16705.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'm sorry, but i've just reached my lurking limit with this stupid comment over corporate beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I i thought your opinions about music were naive, but.. guess I've failed to mention..., You truly ARE a moron if you think PBR is fantastic... sorry to harsh your mellow, but fuck... northern california is a center for good local beer, but PBR is mcDonald's like shite i do give tasting and cooking classes if some of you need it... xo, jingle --- barry threw wrote: > You fail to mention the fact that it is a fantastic > beer, for a > dollar often. > > b > > On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: > > > yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- > this response to the > > dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development of > 'stealth > > marketing', > > where they hire cool looking people to go to hip > bars and talk about > > something they want to sell, with the intention of > being overheard. > > That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a > way that the most > > intrusive advertising in the past never did. > > > > I read an article about the incredibly successful > stealth marketing > > campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which > depended on the > > making > > sure that no one knew that there even WAS a > campaign for it... the old > > 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, > as they think, > > because > > they are just so outside of the mainstream, but > actually because they > > are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth > marketing.... waaaay > > creepy > > > > T > > > > > > > > Matt Davignon wrote: > >> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is not > about signing bands > >> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. > Instead, they're trying > >> to generate artificial buzz about groups that > aren't getting any. > >> That > >> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told by > your job to go out > >> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver > is awesome. > >> > >> "I think that band Train is doing something > totally original. They're > >> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' > music!" > >> > >> Matt > >> > >> > >>> Moe! Staiano moped: > >>> > >>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > >>>> > >>>> -M! > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> Then Tim Perkis was like: > >> > >>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems > completely hopeful. > >>> What is > >>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real > people? The fact that > >>> these focus group people are finding out about > everything by > >>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being > influenced by what's being > >>> pushed, but by what their peers think is > interesting. To me that's > >>> really an exciting development. > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Barry Threw > Media Art and Technology > > > San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 > Email: bthrew at gmail.com > IM: captogreadmore (AIM) > http:/www.barrythrew.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:06:42 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 02:06:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] PBR sucks you morons In-Reply-To: <169854.16705.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <169854.16705.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Serious guy is serious. You should probably lurk some more until you calm down. b On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:58 AM, John Ingle wrote: > I'm sorry, but i've just reached my lurking limit with > this stupid comment over corporate > beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I > i thought your opinions about music were naive, but.. > guess I've failed to mention..., > > > You truly ARE a moron if you think PBR is > fantastic... > > > sorry to harsh your mellow, but fuck... > northern california is a center for good local beer, > but PBR is mcDonald's like shite > > i do give tasting and cooking classes if some of you > need it... > xo, > jingle > > > > --- barry threw wrote: > >> You fail to mention the fact that it is a fantastic >> beer, for a >> dollar often. >> >> b >> >> On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: >> >>> yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- >> this response to the >>> dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development of >> 'stealth >>> marketing', >>> where they hire cool looking people to go to hip >> bars and talk about >>> something they want to sell, with the intention of >> being overheard. >>> That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a >> way that the most >>> intrusive advertising in the past never did. >>> >>> I read an article about the incredibly successful >> stealth marketing >>> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which >> depended on the >>> making >>> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a >> campaign for it... the old >>> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, >> as they think, >>> because >>> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but >> actually because they >>> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth >> marketing.... waaaay >>> creepy >>> >>> T >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt Davignon wrote: >>>> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is not >> about signing bands >>>> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. >> Instead, they're trying >>>> to generate artificial buzz about groups that >> aren't getting any. >>>> That >>>> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told by >> your job to go out >>>> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver >> is awesome. >>>> >>>> "I think that band Train is doing something >> totally original. They're >>>> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' >> music!" >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>>> Moe! Staiano moped: >>>>> >>>>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>>>>> >>>>>> -M! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> Then Tim Perkis was like: >>>> >>>>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems >> completely hopeful. >>>>> What is >>>>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real >> people? The fact that >>>>> these focus group people are finding out about >> everything by >>>>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being >> influenced by what's being >>>>> pushed, but by what their peers think is >> interesting. To me that's >>>>> really an exciting development. >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Barry Threw >> Media Art and Technology >> >> >> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 >> Email: bthrew at gmail.com >> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) >> http:/www.barrythrew.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos > new Car Finder tool. > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:15:03 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 02:15:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: <136824.22351.qm@web58708.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <46DDCC89.7060300@perkis.com> <46DDDDC3.1030701@perkis.com> Message-ID: 2nd to worst? Really? I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a year...they sold a 24 case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in Boston. It's not like I would go searching for it, but being bottled brings it into the realm of drinkability... Anyway, I don't think I have actually drank PBR for about 4 years, but I can still think of a fair amount of domestic beers that I would take PBR over, if options were limited. They are rarely that limited. b On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:16 PM, David Slusser wrote: > Sorry, it's the 2nd to worst crap I've ever tasted, > and I've tasted a lot. It stinks, and you'll stink, > and everything that comes out of you will stink > if you drink even one serving. > > (I had to live on it for a few years.) > > On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:02 PM, barry threw wrote: > >> You fail to mention the fact that it is a fantastic beer, for a >> dollar often. >> >> b >> >> On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: >>> >>> I read an article about the incredibly successful stealth marketing >>> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which depended on the >>> making >>> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a campaign for it... the >>> old >>> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, as they think, >>> because >>> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but actually because >>> they >>> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth marketing.... waaaay >>> creepy > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:29:12 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 02:29:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <20070905.003401.1308.183.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20070905.003401.1308.183.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: This is the kind of statistic that would be made up for by the "long tail" thinking currently in vogue in business, particular internet business. Say the average of those lower volume books is 50 copies sold. And we round down to a million. That's 50 Million books. (One might postulate that they could be sold for higher prices due to low volumes.) Do some rounding on the higher volume books...100,000 sales times 500 different books...well, 50 Million books sold. So I did a significant amount of number fudging there on stats, but the point is that the low volumes sales are many times as important as the bestsellers, same applies to smaller sale records/songs. It's possible that this particular case isn't a very good long tail analogy for some reason I haven't caught, but it is still a very interesting set of economic theories to consider. Since I did a PBR poor job of explaining it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Tail The original wired article: http://web.archive.org/web/20041127085645/http://www.wired.com/wired/ archive/12.10/tail.html b On Sep 5, 2007, at 12:33 AM, weasel walter wrote: >> Minimum number of different books sold in the U.S. last year, as >> tracked by Nielsen BookScan: 1,446,000 >> Number of these that sold fewer than 99 copies: 1,123,000 >> Number that sold more than 100,000: 483 > > whoa! fuck! that's intense. sounds pretty much like the distibution of > wealth in this country . . . hail the stupid godamn free market system > (either you're ruling it or eating shit i guess). > > ww > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 02:32:01 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 02:32:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd. In-Reply-To: <505820.9587.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <505820.9587.qm@web50304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Records after blood sugar = worst mastering jobs evar. b On Sep 4, 2007, at 11:24 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote: >> well judging by the pieces of "two hits and a bunch of filler" >> shit he >> produced with, say, the red hot sucky peppers, his actions >> contradict >> his words. > > say what you want, but if Blood Sugar Sex Magic wasn't an > incredibly tight "Pop" album, they wouldn't have spent the last 15 > years trying to re-create it (and annoying the shit out of me...) > > lettuce > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 03:56:28 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 03:56:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] PBR sucks you morons In-Reply-To: <169854.16705.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <169854.16705.qm@web50507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <52AB2022-C609-4D7D-ACD5-0A3C948DFAEF@gmail.com> Actually...I'm curious... Given the benefit of the doubt that you weren't just being a dick, how are my (or whomever "your" was directed at) opinions about music naive? Educate me in the ways of this "music" you speak of. b On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:58 AM, John Ingle wrote: > I'm sorry, but i've just reached my lurking limit with > this stupid comment over corporate > beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I > i thought your opinions about music were naive, but.. > guess I've failed to mention..., > > > You truly ARE a moron if you think PBR is > fantastic... > > > sorry to harsh your mellow, but fuck... > northern california is a center for good local beer, > but PBR is mcDonald's like shite > > i do give tasting and cooking classes if some of you > need it... > xo, > jingle > > > > --- barry threw wrote: > >> You fail to mention the fact that it is a fantastic >> beer, for a >> dollar often. >> >> b >> >> On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: >> >>> yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- >> this response to the >>> dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development of >> 'stealth >>> marketing', >>> where they hire cool looking people to go to hip >> bars and talk about >>> something they want to sell, with the intention of >> being overheard. >>> That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a >> way that the most >>> intrusive advertising in the past never did. >>> >>> I read an article about the incredibly successful >> stealth marketing >>> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, which >> depended on the >>> making >>> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a >> campaign for it... the old >>> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, >> as they think, >>> because >>> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but >> actually because they >>> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth >> marketing.... waaaay >>> creepy >>> >>> T >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt Davignon wrote: >>>> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is not >> about signing bands >>>> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. >> Instead, they're trying >>>> to generate artificial buzz about groups that >> aren't getting any. >>>> That >>>> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told by >> your job to go out >>>> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver >> is awesome. >>>> >>>> "I think that band Train is doing something >> totally original. They're >>>> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' >> music!" >>>> >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>>> Moe! Staiano moped: >>>>> >>>>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>>>>> >>>>>> -M! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> Then Tim Perkis was like: >>>> >>>>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems >> completely hopeful. >>>>> What is >>>>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real >> people? The fact that >>>>> these focus group people are finding out about >> everything by >>>>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being >> influenced by what's being >>>>> pushed, but by what their peers think is >> interesting. To me that's >>>>> really an exciting development. >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Barry Threw >> Media Art and Technology >> >> >> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 >> Email: bthrew at gmail.com >> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) >> http:/www.barrythrew.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos > new Car Finder tool. > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From jmojingle at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 09:46:05 2007 From: jmojingle at yahoo.com (John Ingle) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] PBR sucks you morons In-Reply-To: <52AB2022-C609-4D7D-ACD5-0A3C948DFAEF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76789.74576.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Wow. I don't really remember typing that. I do, however, remember that I was really drunk on fine local micro-brew and sake last night. Major apologies to the entire list and especially Mr. Threw the PBR lover. I have no idea this morning what I was thinking when I suggested that someone had naive opions about music. I'm not even sure what that means. If it's any consolation, I have a horrendous hangover, thought not as bad if I had been drinking PBR... to steer back to topic... there was a great show at the Temescal Art Center Last night. cheers, uhhhhh,later, jingle --- barry threw wrote: > Actually...I'm curious... > > Given the benefit of the doubt that you weren't just > being a dick, > how are my (or whomever "your" was directed at) > opinions about music > naive? > > Educate me in the ways of this "music" you speak of. > > b > > > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:58 AM, John Ingle wrote: > > > I'm sorry, but i've just reached my lurking limit > with > > this stupid comment over corporate > > beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I > > i thought your opinions about music were naive, > but.. > > guess I've failed to mention..., > > > > > > You truly ARE a moron if you think PBR is > > fantastic... > > > > > > sorry to harsh your mellow, but fuck... > > northern california is a center for good local > beer, > > but PBR is mcDonald's like shite > > > > i do give tasting and cooking classes if some of > you > > need it... > > xo, > > jingle > > > > > > > > --- barry threw wrote: > > > >> You fail to mention the fact that it is a > fantastic > >> beer, for a > >> dollar often. > >> > >> b > >> > >> On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: > >> > >>> yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- > >> this response to the > >>> dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development > of > >> 'stealth > >>> marketing', > >>> where they hire cool looking people to go to hip > >> bars and talk about > >>> something they want to sell, with the intention > of > >> being overheard. > >>> That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a > >> way that the most > >>> intrusive advertising in the past never did. > >>> > >>> I read an article about the incredibly > successful > >> stealth marketing > >>> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, > which > >> depended on the > >>> making > >>> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a > >> campaign for it... the old > >>> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, > >> as they think, > >>> because > >>> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but > >> actually because they > >>> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth > >> marketing.... waaaay > >>> creepy > >>> > >>> T > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Matt Davignon wrote: > >>>> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is > not > >> about signing bands > >>>> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. > >> Instead, they're trying > >>>> to generate artificial buzz about groups that > >> aren't getting any. > >>>> That > >>>> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told > by > >> your job to go out > >>>> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver > >> is awesome. > >>>> > >>>> "I think that band Train is doing something > >> totally original. They're > >>>> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' > >> music!" > >>>> > >>>> Matt > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Moe! Staiano moped: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -M! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Then Tim Perkis was like: > >>>> > >>>>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems > >> completely hopeful. > >>>>> What is > >>>>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real > >> people? The fact that > >>>>> these focus group people are finding out about > >> everything by > >>>>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being > >> influenced by what's being > >>>>> pushed, but by what their peers think is > >> interesting. To me that's > >>>>> really an exciting development. > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >>>> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >> > >> Barry Threw > >> Media Art and Technology > >> > >> > >> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 > >> Email: bthrew at gmail.com > >> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) > >> http:/www.barrythrew.com > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ______________ > > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check > out Yahoo! Autos > > new Car Finder tool. > > http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Barry Threw > Media Art and Technology > > > San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 > Email: bthrew at gmail.com > IM: captogreadmore (AIM) > http:/www.barrythrew.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 10:11:52 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:11:52 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] PBR sucks you morons In-Reply-To: <76789.74576.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <76789.74576.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <944FAE5D-A598-4283-BA82-610B1D72B329@gmail.com> In that case, apology accepted! Lord knows I have said worse, soberer. b On Sep 5, 2007, at 9:46 AM, John Ingle wrote: > Wow. I don't really remember typing that. > I do, however, remember that I was really drunk on > fine local micro-brew and sake last night. > Major apologies to the entire list and especially Mr. > Threw the PBR lover. I have no idea this morning what > I was thinking when I suggested that someone had naive > opions about music. I'm not even sure what that > means. > > If it's any consolation, I have a horrendous hangover, > thought not as bad if I had been drinking PBR... > > to steer back to topic... there was a great show at > the Temescal Art Center Last night. > > cheers, uhhhhh,later, > > jingle > > --- barry threw wrote: > >> Actually...I'm curious... >> >> Given the benefit of the doubt that you weren't just >> being a dick, >> how are my (or whomever "your" was directed at) >> opinions about music >> naive? >> >> Educate me in the ways of this "music" you speak of. >> >> b >> >> >> >> On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:58 AM, John Ingle wrote: >> >>> I'm sorry, but i've just reached my lurking limit >> with >>> this stupid comment over corporate >>> beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I >>> i thought your opinions about music were naive, >> but.. >>> guess I've failed to mention..., >>> >>> >>> You truly ARE a moron if you think PBR is >>> fantastic... >>> >>> >>> sorry to harsh your mellow, but fuck... >>> northern california is a center for good local >> beer, >>> but PBR is mcDonald's like shite >>> >>> i do give tasting and cooking classes if some of >> you >>> need it... >>> xo, >>> jingle >>> >>> >>> >>> --- barry threw wrote: >>> >>>> You fail to mention the fact that it is a >> fantastic >>>> beer, for a >>>> dollar often. >>>> >>>> b >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: >>>> >>>>> yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- >>>> this response to the >>>>> dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development >> of >>>> 'stealth >>>>> marketing', >>>>> where they hire cool looking people to go to hip >>>> bars and talk about >>>>> something they want to sell, with the intention >> of >>>> being overheard. >>>>> That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a >>>> way that the most >>>>> intrusive advertising in the past never did. >>>>> >>>>> I read an article about the incredibly >> successful >>>> stealth marketing >>>>> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, >> which >>>> depended on the >>>>> making >>>>> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a >>>> campaign for it... the old >>>>> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, >>>> as they think, >>>>> because >>>>> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but >>>> actually because they >>>>> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth >>>> marketing.... waaaay >>>>> creepy >>>>> >>>>> T >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt Davignon wrote: >>>>>> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is >> not >>>> about signing bands >>>>>> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. >>>> Instead, they're trying >>>>>> to generate artificial buzz about groups that >>>> aren't getting any. >>>>>> That >>>>>> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told >> by >>>> your job to go out >>>>>> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver >>>> is awesome. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I think that band Train is doing something >>>> totally original. They're >>>>>> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' >>>> music!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Moe! Staiano moped: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -M! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Then Tim Perkis was like: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems >>>> completely hopeful. >>>>>>> What is >>>>>>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real >>>> people? The fact that >>>>>>> these focus group people are finding out about >>>> everything by >>>>>>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being >>>> influenced by what's being >>>>>>> pushed, but by what their peers think is >>>> interesting. To me that's >>>>>>> really an exciting development. >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>>>> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>> >>>> Barry Threw >>>> Media Art and Technology >>>> >>>> >>>> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 >>>> Email: bthrew at gmail.com >>>> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) >>>> http:/www.barrythrew.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ______________________________________________________________________ >> >>> ______________ >>> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check >> out Yahoo! Autos >>> new Car Finder tool. >>> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Barry Threw >> Media Art and Technology >> >> >> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 >> Email: bthrew at gmail.com >> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) >> http:/www.barrythrew.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From pamelaz at pamelaz.com Wed Sep 5 10:39:25 2007 From: pamelaz at pamelaz.com (Pamela Z) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:39:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Videotaping SFEMF? In-Reply-To: <944FAE5D-A598-4283-BA82-610B1D72B329@gmail.com> References: <76789.74576.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <944FAE5D-A598-4283-BA82-610B1D72B329@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello All, If anyone who has a decent camera would be interested in volunteering to video tape SFEMF, (especially Thu-Sun) please contact me at pamelaz at pamelaz.com. There are a couple of festival passes in it for you.... PZ -- Pamela Z Composer/Performer Contact info: Telephone: 415.861.EARS (415.861.3277) Mobile: 415.5PAMELA (415.572.6352) FAX: 415.861.FAKS (415.861.3257) (I forward my land line to my mobile phone when I'm travelling) pamelaz at pamelaz.com http://www.pamelaz.com http://www.myspace.com/pamelazcomposer Skype: pamelazed AIM: pamelazdotcom Snail Mail: Pamela Z Productions 540 Alabama Street Studio 213 San Francisco, CA 94110, USA shipping address (for packages larger than a 10" x 13" envelope): Pamela Z 2440 Sixteenth Street PMB #171, San Francisco, CA 94103, USA Pamela Z's CD "A Delay is Better" on the Starkland label is now available at http://www.amazon.com, http://www.starkland.com, and in stores near you. ...................................................................................................... From miltnerunit at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 10:56:39 2007 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 10:56:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] PBR sucks you morons In-Reply-To: <76789.74576.qm@web50512.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: John, you are so funny... I just about died laughing. k On 9/5/07 9:46 AM, "John Ingle" wrote: > Wow. I don't really remember typing that. > I do, however, remember that I was really drunk on > fine local micro-brew and sake last night. > Major apologies to the entire list and especially Mr. > Threw the PBR lover. I have no idea this morning what > I was thinking when I suggested that someone had naive > opions about music. I'm not even sure what that > means. > > If it's any consolation, I have a horrendous hangover, > thought not as bad if I had been drinking PBR... > > to steer back to topic... there was a great show at > the Temescal Art Center Last night. > > cheers, uhhhhh,later, > > jingle > > --- barry threw wrote: > >> Actually...I'm curious... >> >> Given the benefit of the doubt that you weren't just >> being a dick, >> how are my (or whomever "your" was directed at) >> opinions about music >> naive? >> >> Educate me in the ways of this "music" you speak of. >> >> b >> >> >> >> On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:58 AM, John Ingle wrote: >> >>> I'm sorry, but i've just reached my lurking limit >> with >>> this stupid comment over corporate >>> beer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I >>> i thought your opinions about music were naive, >> but.. >>> guess I've failed to mention..., >>> >>> >>> You truly ARE a moron if you think PBR is >>> fantastic... >>> >>> >>> sorry to harsh your mellow, but fuck... >>> northern california is a center for good local >> beer, >>> but PBR is mcDonald's like shite >>> >>> i do give tasting and cooking classes if some of >> you >>> need it... >>> xo, >>> jingle >>> >>> >>> >>> --- barry threw wrote: >>> >>>> You fail to mention the fact that it is a >> fantastic >>>> beer, for a >>>> dollar often. >>>> >>>> b >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Tim Perkis wrote: >>>> >>>>> yeah, well this part is depressing and creepy -- >>>> this response to the >>>>> dominance of 'word of mouth' -- the development >> of >>>> 'stealth >>>>> marketing', >>>>> where they hire cool looking people to go to hip >>>> bars and talk about >>>>> something they want to sell, with the intention >> of >>>> being overheard. >>>>> That's undercutting the basic social fabric in a >>>> way that the most >>>>> intrusive advertising in the past never did. >>>>> >>>>> I read an article about the incredibly >> successful >>>> stealth marketing >>>>> campaign to rehabilitate Pabst Blue Ribbon, >> which >>>> depended on the >>>>> making >>>>> sure that no one knew that there even WAS a >>>> campaign for it... the old >>>>> 'regular guy' beer was taken up by hipsters not, >>>> as they think, >>>>> because >>>>> they are just so outside of the mainstream, but >>>> actually because they >>>>> are so susceptible to hipster-targeted stealth >>>> marketing.... waaaay >>>>> creepy >>>>> >>>>> T >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt Davignon wrote: >>>>>> Well, the word of mouth they're discussing is >> not >>>> about signing bands >>>>>> that have been creating a word of mouth buzz. >>>> Instead, they're trying >>>>>> to generate artificial buzz about groups that >>>> aren't getting any. >>>>>> That >>>>>> part was a bit depressing. Imagine being told >> by >>>> your job to go out >>>>>> and tell everyone you know that Velvet Revolver >>>> is awesome. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I think that band Train is doing something >>>> totally original. They're >>>>>> absolutely not the Bob Saget of 'alternative' >>>> music!" >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Moe! Staiano moped: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pretty damn depressing in my opinion.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -M! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Then Tim Perkis was like: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This doesn't seem depressing to me, it seems >>>> completely hopeful. >>>>>>> What is >>>>>>> 'word of mouth' but authentic culture by real >>>> people? The fact that >>>>>>> these focus group people are finding out about >>>> everything by >>>>>>> 'word-of-mouth' means they aren't being >>>> influenced by what's being >>>>>>> pushed, but by what their peers think is >>>> interesting. To me that's >>>>>>> really an exciting development. >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>>>> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>> >>>> Barry Threw >>>> Media Art and Technology >>>> >>>> >>>> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 >>>> Email: bthrew at gmail.com >>>> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) >>>> http:/www.barrythrew.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ______________________________________________________________________ >> >>> ______________ >>> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check >> out Yahoo! Autos >>> new Car Finder tool. >>> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Barry Threw >> Media Art and Technology >> >> >> San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 >> Email: bthrew at gmail.com >> IM: captogreadmore (AIM) >> http:/www.barrythrew.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Sep 5 13:38:39 2007 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:38:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: I lived on reconstituted mashed potatoes (e.g. Potato Flakes, Potato Buds, etc.) for several months back in 1994 ... edible, yes, high on the list of delectable food products ... uh, no. sl LOL Barry wrote: 2nd to worst? Really? I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a year...they sold a 24 case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in Boston. From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Wed Sep 5 14:49:31 2007 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 14:49:31 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Gino interview Message-ID: <935FDD12-6E15-4BF1-91AB-7725281D366B@balancepointacoustics.com> http://www.paristransatlantic.com/magazine/interviews/robair.html Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 16:33:05 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:33:05 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12F49CC7-E135-46B0-A979-BA5B2571E141@gmail.com> Beers (and Malt Liqueurs) I would drink Pabst over: Budweiser Budlight Bud Select Bud Dry Bud Ice Bud Ice Light Michelob Michelob Light Michelob Ultra Rolling Rock Busch Busch Light Busch Ice Natural Light Natural Ice Taquiza Barcardi Silver all flavors Coors Coors Light Keystone Keystone Light Keystone Ice Zima MGD Miller Light Old Milwaukee Old Style Colt 45 Schlitz Schmidt Stag Strohs St Ides Cedar Mountain Milwaukee's Best Molson Does this make it good in an absolute sense? No. However, if I go to a party and there is Pasbt in the keg, I drink the Pabst, get on with life, and am glad that it isn't one of the aforementioned brews. b On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > I lived on reconstituted mashed potatoes (e.g. Potato Flakes, > Potato Buds, > etc.) for several months back in 1994 ... edible, yes, high on the > list of > delectable food products ... uh, no. > > sl > > > LOL Barry wrote: > 2nd to worst? Really? > > I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a year...they sold a 24 > case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in Boston. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Wed Sep 5 16:49:51 2007 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:49:51 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <12F49CC7-E135-46B0-A979-BA5B2571E141@gmail.com> References: <12F49CC7-E135-46B0-A979-BA5B2571E141@gmail.com> Message-ID: <321398CD-7CE8-4CAB-92C6-5B5EA84294CA@matthewgoodheart.com> > However, if I go > to a party and there is Pasbt in the keg, I drink the Pabst, get on > with life, Seeing as how there are now some drinkable 3 and 4 dollar Italian wines, I would tend toward a mid-party field trip to Trader Joes. . . but then my manners suck. mg > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > >> I lived on reconstituted mashed potatoes (e.g. Potato Flakes, >> Potato Buds, >> etc.) for several months back in 1994 ... edible, yes, high on the >> list of >> delectable food products ... uh, no. >> >> sl >> >> >> LOL Barry wrote: >> 2nd to worst? Really? >> >> I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a year...they sold a 24 >> case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in Boston. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Barry Threw > Media Art and Technology > > > San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 > Email: bthrew at gmail.com > IM: captogreadmore (AIM) > http:/www.barrythrew.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From phil at philipgelb.com Wed Sep 5 16:59:15 2007 From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 16:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <12F49CC7-E135-46B0-A979-BA5B2571E141@gmail.com> Message-ID: <290998.5519.qm@web83708.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> given all those "choices", i would choose not to have a beer! --- barry threw wrote: > Beers (and Malt Liqueurs) I would drink Pabst over: > > Budweiser > Budlight > Bud Select > Bud Dry > Bud Ice > Bud Ice Light > Michelob > Michelob Light > Michelob Ultra > Rolling Rock > Busch > Busch Light > Busch Ice > Natural Light > Natural Ice > Taquiza > Barcardi Silver all flavors > Coors > Coors Light > Keystone > Keystone Light > Keystone Ice > Zima > MGD > Miller Light > Old Milwaukee > Old Style > Colt 45 > Schlitz > Schmidt > Stag > Strohs > St Ides > Cedar Mountain > Milwaukee's Best > Molson > > Does this make it good in an absolute sense? No. > However, if I go > to a party and there is Pasbt in the keg, I drink > the Pabst, get on > with life, and am glad that it isn't one of the > aforementioned brews. > > b > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > > I lived on reconstituted mashed potatoes (e.g. > Potato Flakes, > > Potato Buds, > > etc.) for several months back in 1994 ... edible, > yes, high on the > > list of > > delectable food products ... uh, no. > > > > sl > > > > > > LOL Barry wrote: > > 2nd to worst? Really? > > > > I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a > year...they sold a 24 > > case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in > Boston. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Barry Threw > Media Art and Technology > > > San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 > Email: bthrew at gmail.com > IM: captogreadmore (AIM) > http:/www.barrythrew.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From jfheule at gmail.com Wed Sep 5 17:28:44 2007 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 17:28:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <12F49CC7-E135-46B0-A979-BA5B2571E141@gmail.com> References: <12F49CC7-E135-46B0-A979-BA5B2571E141@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860709051728s940d78ci33e08d90bef1e7a2@mail.gmail.com> I had a Budweiser Chelada (Budweiser infused with Clamato) this past weekend. It's not as bad as it sounds (pretty much just like carbonated V8), but I don't understand who the target market is. I think it was probably someone at Anheuser-Busch trying to get himself fired. I could not finish the whole 1 pint 6 oz, but I did drink considerably more beer once I switched over to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. jacob On 9/5/07, barry threw wrote: > Beers (and Malt Liqueurs) I would drink Pabst over: -- http://ettrick.org http://myspace.com/ettrick http://heule.us http://myspace.com/jacobfelix From magsatellite at yahoo.com Wed Sep 5 23:51:10 2007 From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the record industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <554107.46028.qm@web43143.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> "I have nothing to say, and I am saying it." MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ From letucepry at yahoo.com Thu Sep 6 00:14:58 2007 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 00:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) Message-ID: <980790.72138.qm@web50311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My personal fav marketing campaign is Stella Artois being marketed to the "Finer Establishments" in the US....in the UK this is generally considered the trashy-est beer available, and is commonly known as "Wife Beater", supposedly because on all the "Cops" type shows over there, whenever the cops show up to a domestic violence incident there's a pack of Stella on the floor... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Philip Gelb To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 4:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) given all those "choices", i would choose not to have a beer! --- barry threw wrote: > Beers (and Malt Liqueurs) I would drink Pabst over: > > Budweiser > Budlight > Bud Select > Bud Dry > Bud Ice > Bud Ice Light > Michelob > Michelob Light > Michelob Ultra > Rolling Rock > Busch > Busch Light > Busch Ice > Natural Light > Natural Ice > Taquiza > Barcardi Silver all flavors > Coors > Coors Light > Keystone > Keystone Light > Keystone Ice > Zima > MGD > Miller Light > Old Milwaukee > Old Style > Colt 45 > Schlitz > Schmidt > Stag > Strohs > St Ides > Cedar Mountain > Milwaukee's Best > Molson > > Does this make it good in an absolute sense? No. > However, if I go > to a party and there is Pasbt in the keg, I drink > the Pabst, get on > with life, and am glad that it isn't one of the > aforementioned brews. > > b > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > > I lived on reconstituted mashed potatoes (e.g. > Potato Flakes, > > Potato Buds, > > etc.) for several months back in 1994 ... edible, > yes, high on the > > list of > > delectable food products ... uh, no. > > > > sl > > > > > > LOL Barry wrote: > > 2nd to worst? Really? > > > > I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a > year...they sold a 24 > > case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in > Boston. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Barry Threw > Media Art and Technology > > > San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 > Email: bthrew at gmail.com > IM: captogreadmore (AIM) > http:/www.barrythrew.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From bthrew at gmail.com Thu Sep 6 08:16:17 2007 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 08:16:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) In-Reply-To: <980790.72138.qm@web50311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <980790.72138.qm@web50311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73957E3F-B430-45A9-9591-9931C224F9B9@gmail.com> Yeah, the Stella glass is pretty special. b On Sep 6, 2007, at 12:14 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote: > My personal fav marketing campaign is Stella Artois being marketed > to the "Finer Establishments" > in the US....in the UK this is generally considered the trashy-est > beer available, and is commonly known as "Wife Beater", supposedly > because on all the "Cops" type shows over there, whenever the cops > show up to a domestic violence incident there's a pack of Stella > on the floor... > > lettuce > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Philip Gelb > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2007 4:59:15 PM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Death of the beer industry (cont'd.) > > > given all those "choices", i would choose not to have > a beer! > > --- barry threw wrote: > >> Beers (and Malt Liqueurs) I would drink Pabst over: >> >> Budweiser >> Budlight >> Bud Select >> Bud Dry >> Bud Ice >> Bud Ice Light >> Michelob >> Michelob Light >> Michelob Ultra >> Rolling Rock >> Busch >> Busch Light >> Busch Ice >> Natural Light >> Natural Ice >> Taquiza >> Barcardi Silver all flavors >> Coors >> Coors Light >> Keystone >> Keystone Light >> Keystone Ice >> Zima >> MGD >> Miller Light >> Old Milwaukee >> Old Style >> Colt 45 >> Schlitz >> Schmidt >> Stag >> Strohs >> St Ides >> Cedar Mountain >> Milwaukee's Best >> Molson >> >> Does this make it good in an absolute sense? No. >> However, if I go >> to a party and there is Pasbt in the keg, I drink >> the Pabst, get on >> with life, and am glad that it isn't one of the >> aforementioned brews. >> >> b >> >> On Sep 5, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: >> >>> I lived on reconstituted mashed potatoes (e.g. >> Potato Flakes, >>> Potato Buds, >>> etc.) for several months back in 1994 ... edible, >> yes, high on the >>> list of >>> delectable food products ... uh, no. >>> >>> sl >>> >>> >>> LOL Barry wrote: >>> 2nd to worst? Really? >>> >>> I mean, I lived on it for...well, probably a >> year...they sold a 24 >>> case of bottles for 13 bucks at this place in >> Boston. Barry Threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew at gmail.com IM: captogreadmore (AIM) http:/www.barrythrew.com From paulineo at deeplistening.org Thu Sep 6 13:08:32 2007 From: paulineo at deeplistening.org (Pauline Oliveros) Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:08:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [NewMusic] Invite from Pauline Oliveros (paulineo@deeplisten