From tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul  1 10:43:11 2008
From: tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net (ted brinkley)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] ISIM conference - call for proposals
Message-ID: <881908.4013.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

just FYI......


--- Ed Sarath <sarahara at umich.edu> wrote:

> 
> Call for Proposals??
> 
> International Society for Improvised Music
> Third Annual Conference 2008
> Lamont School of Music, University of Denver,
> Colorado USA
> December 5-7, 2008
> 
> Improvisation and Identity: Discovering Self and
> Community in a Trans-Cultural Age
> 
> Keynote Address ? Roscoe Mitchell
> Featured Performers and Speakers ? Jo?lle
> L?andre?and India Cooke
> 
> When Charlie Parker stated that "if you don't live
> it, it won't come out of your horn," he conveyed, in
> his inimitable way, the capacity of improvisation to
> serve as a vehicle for integrating the totality of
> influences that shape personal and social
> identity.?From class, culture, economics, and
> ecology to gender, race, sexuality, and
> spirituality; improvising musicians spontaneously
> meld these and other aspects of their being in
> expressions that serve as both profound personal and
> collective commentaries. In an era in which
> unprecedented levels of superficiality, alienation,
> and violence often overshadow a growing interest in
> creative and transpersonal development, and where an
> ever-escalating morass of data threatens to engulf a
> genuine cross-fertilization between disciplines and
> cultures; the importance of a creative vehicle for
> accessing and expressing one's inner and outer
> worlds has never been greater.
> 
> Improvisation not only excels in this regard, it
> also?through the very moment-to-moment
> decision-making sequences that require individuals
> to penetrate beyond ordinary patterns of
> behavior?may exemplify the dissolution of provincial
> and nationalistic tendencies that divide communities
> and countries in our politically fragile
> world.?Improvisation, in fact, may be the ultimate
> lens through which the quest for self and community
> is revealed to be as much a collective as a personal
> endeavor.
> 
> The International Society for Improvised Music
> invites proposals related to the above theme for
> performances, papers, workshops, and other
> presentations for its third annual conference.?The
> theme may be construed broadly: it is compatible
> across wide-ranging approaches to improvised
> performance, it invites wide-ranging pedagogical
> applications, and suggests connections to
> wide-ranging, cross-disciplinary areas.?ISIM is
> committed to diversity in its programming.
> 
> Deadline for proposals: September 1, 2008
> Notification date: September 26, 2008
> 
> ISIM Conference 2008 Proposal Form available at
> www.isimprov.org
> Proposals accepted via email?info at isimprov.org
> Or by postal mail: ISIM, P.O. Box 1603, Ann Arbor
> MI, 48106 USA
> 
> As with prior conferences, applications will only be
> reviewed from current ISIM members.?New members may
> submit membership application with conference
> proposal. Join ISIM at www.isimprov.org
> 
> For more information contact:?
> 
> Sarah Weaver, ISIM Conference
> Director?sarah at isimprov.org?734-277-2690
> 
> ISIM?Board?of?Directors
> Ed Sarath, President
> Maud Hickey, Vice President
> Karlton Hester, Vice President
> LaDonna Smith, Treasurer
> Betty Anne Younker, Secretary
> Sarah Weaver, Executive Director
> India Cooke
> 
> 
> ==========
> Ed Sarath
> 
> Professor of Jazz and Contemporary Improvisation
> Studies
> School of Music, Theatre, and Dance
> www.edsarath.com
> sarahara at umich.edu
> 
> Director, Program in Creativity and Consciousness
> Studies
> The University of Michigan
> www.sitemaker.umich.edu/pccs
> 


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul  1 14:41:48 2008
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 14:41:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] eli crew's number
Message-ID: <20080701.144149.1812.277.weaselw@juno.com>

 can someone send me eli crew's number offline? i had a new, improved
business card, but i've misplaced it. thanks.

ww
____________________________________________________________
Fabulous Spa Getaway!
Enter for your chance to WIN great beauty prizes everyday!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7UrpN6xr57odXb3iCoU4ENU2vwc3bF2f4syhTvYV2dB9nvI/

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul  1 14:43:02 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:43:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] FW: SHOW THIS WED: Megafaun + Ben Bracken + Discomedusae
 + Core ogg Coal Man
In-Reply-To: <6d1542e80806301916w7122dfe5q476253f8bd584ec5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C48FF2F6.259A3%21grand@21grand.org>

>From Ben Bracken

21 Grand is a 501(c)3 non-profit multi-disciplinary arts space
416 25th St. (at Broadway)
Oakland, CA  94612
21grand at 21grand.org
(510) 444-7263 


------ Forwarded Message
From: benjamin bracken <benbracken at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:16:54 -0700
To: b b <benbracken at gmail.com>
Subject: SHOW THIS WED: Megafaun + Ben Bracken + Discomedusae + Core ogg
Coal Man

I'm playing a last minute show this Wednesday.

Wednesday July 2nd:
Megafaun + Ben Bracken + Discomedusae + Core ogg Coal Man
21 Grand
8:30 pm, $6-10 sliding scale

megafaun rules, they are members of Akron/Family, and full of all the good
things that this thing called existence claims as possible attributes:
http://myspace.com/megafaun

we all know and love the always sweet and true ruler Jorge who finally came
back to his senses and returned to the deep bay fold:
http://www.myspace.com/coreoggthecoalman

and although the following page has a different name, the creative force
behind Discomedusae, free radical Kristine Barrett, is the one and same:
http://www.myspace.com/lilymaudehorseman

although we all always walk the dimly lit path winding into the future
alone, Wednesday will be my first solo performance in quite some time.  I've
been shacked up in a little cabin at the river's source, and now its time to
shatter the cobbled together dam that exists between you and i.

-b



------ End of Forwarded Message


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul  2 12:13:24 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:13:24 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Photos of past skronkathon needed
Message-ID: <C4912164.25A02%21grand@21grand.org>

Aurora and anyone else who took pictures at last year's skronkathon,

We're looking for a good picture that can be used for a guardian article.
Writer needs one asap, as usual.

sl



From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul  2 12:20:39 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 12:20:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Photos of past skronkathon needed
In-Reply-To: <C4912164.25A02%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <912212.75401.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i have one that polly took of jorrit and i, but it's a bit dark. i am attaching it, if you think you can use it.
   
  pg

Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
  Aurora and anyone else who took pictures at last year's skronkathon,

We're looking for a good picture that can be used for a guardian article.
Writer needs one asap, as usual.

sl


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Wed Jul  2 15:30:44 2008
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:30:44 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Mute Socialite + Sleepytime Gorilla Museum NW Tour
Message-ID: <317505170807021530n1218e8f6n40b224cf9c9a04e0@mail.gmail.com>

Mute Socialite is playing four dates in the northwest with Sleepytime
Gorilla Museum.

Mute Socialite- Jolting, hocketing rhythms, atonal surf riffs, and
blackened salsa grooves combine to create a singular brutal,
polyrhythmic spasmathon. A primordial beastie unleashed on the world
in fury and love! www.myspace.com/mutesocialite

Sleepytime Gorilla Museum- A costumed festival of hyperventilating
self-derangement, which has yet to include much of a puppet show, but
has included human performers of varying stiffness (see Ink Boat).
The Museum are unified in these various crafts by the simplicity of
their opposition to rock music. In the words of John Kane, "Nothing
should be left undone which might contribute to its demise." To this
end they employ a most tried and proven destructive force: rock. ROCK
AGAINST ROCK. www.sleepytimegorillamuseum.com

-----------------------------
Dates:

7/3 Seattle, WA @ Neumos, 9:00
also: Jason Webley

7/4 Vancouver, BC @ The Plaza, 8:00

7/5 Portland, OR @ Dantes, 8:00

7/6 Eugene, OR WOW Hall @ 9:00

From matt at sfsound.org  Wed Jul  2 23:00:47 2008
From: matt at sfsound.org (matt)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:00:47 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] looking for a gun
Message-ID: <5B83FB28-8B0E-4CF8-A0D5-79C340716737@sfsound.org>

no - not celebrating the recent supreme court ruling --
but
sfSound is
performing a Pauline Oliveros piece that needs a gun -
was wondering if any one out there might have -
  and be willing to lend us a:

real handgun (that we can use with blanks),
theater prop, cap gun, starter gun,
or toy gun that makes a loud bang.

thanks!
m@



From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jul  3 09:42:25 2008
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:42:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Looking for a Cello Player
References: <20080701.144149.1812.277.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <001301c8dd2b$c6445b80$6501a8c0@eyefull01>

Hello,
If interested in playing with REEL CHANGE at the Skronkathon please contact me off list. We'll be playing live soundtracks for some DADA films.

REEL CHANGE is:

Andrew Voigt - Winds
Tom Nunn - Inventions
David Michalak - Lap Steel
special guest: Tim Perkis - Electronics

From liz_abet at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 16:23:11 2008
From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (lizabet)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] happy 4th = Goodbye Helms!!!!!
Message-ID: <644072.2444.qm@web32804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

guardian has a great obit. for big prig jesse helms:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/04/usa

they pretty much give a scathing review of what a dickhead he was. probably we wont read it quite like this in us press?

hey tim perkis, thanks for posting the guardian article about metalicca, barney, et al, and torture. really pertinent topic for all us music folk, regardless of whether our work is used that way.

hey everyone: anyone going away mid july (11-26) who needs a housesitter or subletter??? i know someone coming to town needs a room/apartment/house for two weeks. extremely responsible upstanding person. 

email me offlist if anything comes to mind.










      

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Mon Jul  7 09:24:35 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:24:35 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Take the Robots Bowling
Message-ID: <C4979153.14B35%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7487645.stm


From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Mon Jul  7 10:52:32 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:52:32 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Scott Looney?
Message-ID: <C497A5F0.14B50%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

Hey gang,
Does anyone have a current email for Mr. Looney that they can send me
off-list? I can't seem to reach him like I used to. . .
Thanks,
g


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  7 16:12:16 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 16:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Take the Robots Bowling
Message-ID: <958375.65024.qm@web50311.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Heck, that's nothing new, wasn't Jello Biafra complaining about them back in the early 80s...
lettuce



----- Original Message ----
From: "Robair, Gino" <Gino.Robair at penton.com>
To: New Music <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2008 9:24:35 AM
Subject: [NewMusic] Take the Robots Bowling

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7487645.stm

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Tue Jul  8 09:43:37 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:43:37 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's sixth chord change in German church
Message-ID: <C498E749.14C14%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7490776.stm


From cortese.consulting at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 01:54:15 2008
From: cortese.consulting at gmail.com (Chris Cortese)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 01:54:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>

The suspense is killing me.

Actually, it might be more interesting if the music only revealed itself 
over such a span of time, using some kind of computer software 
automation...  I mean in such a way that only the composer knows the 
piece in its entirety (since the first performance of this thing was 29 
minutes, I assume that's not the case here).


Chris



----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:43:37 -0500
> From: "Robair, Gino" <Gino.Robair at penton.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's sixth chord change in German church
> To: New Music <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID: <C498E749.14C14%Gino.Robair at penton.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7490776.stm
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 27, Issue 6
> ***************************************
>   


From lx.rudis at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 17:12:29 2008
From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:12:29 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>

boy howdy.

there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
being memorialized.

...can't really call this a 'performance'.  'management exercise' seems a
bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to its
conclusion.  how's it being financed?

and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of the
piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.

i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in the
60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
time' pieces.

somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
it smells like an administrative stunt to me.  the work of one or more
underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.

it just doesn't sit right with me.  there, i've said it.  anyone else feel
this way?

From bradysharp at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 18:32:51 2008
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 18:32:51 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7177e350807091832v74103b14tb2a6086fd6470494@mail.gmail.com>

I think your reaction and everyone else's for the next 631 years is probably
the original intent of the piece.  Internet discussion just doesn't seem to
add to the music as much as vocal protest at the actual performance does...
Wasn't 4:33 just as much a "management excercise"... honestly... :^)

Brady

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 5:12 PM, lx rudis <lx.rudis at gmail.com> wrote:

> boy howdy.
>
> there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
> being memorialized.
>
> ...can't really call this a 'performance'.  'management exercise' seems a
> bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to
> its
> conclusion.  how's it being financed?
>
> and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of
> the
> piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
> music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
> to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.
>
> i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
> shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in
> the
> 60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
> time' pieces.
>
> somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
> it smells like an administrative stunt to me.  the work of one or more
> underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.
>
> it just doesn't sit right with me.  there, i've said it.  anyone else feel
> this way?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 18:33:37 2008
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:33:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>	<48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <487566F1.3050600@gmail.com>

it seems more likely to me that it's at least partially a publicity 
stunt for the town.. maybe that's what you mean. To get tourists. And 
maybe that's a little shallow... but it's just an organ sitting in a 
church somewhere, droning on. It's a nice concept and I really don't see 
how it hurts anybody.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be 
abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer. 
I mean why bother putting on a work that you intend to just abandon? 
They don't actually think it's going to go on for 600 years or whatever. 
Jeez, the organ wouldn't even last that long. They're just "Using" the 
piece for shock value or cachet or whatever you want to call it. They 
should choose a more reasonable time-frame like 10-20 years and then it 
would actually be completed. Maybe that seems too pragmatic, but I think 
just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that 
kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece 
afterward too.

Alicia

lx rudis wrote:
> boy howdy.
>
> there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
> being memorialized.
>
> ...can't really call this a 'performance'.  'management exercise' seems a
> bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to its
> conclusion.  how's it being financed?
>
> and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of the
> piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
> music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
> to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.
>
> i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
> shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in the
> 60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
> time' pieces.
>
> somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
> it smells like an administrative stunt to me.  the work of one or more
> underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.
>
> it just doesn't sit right with me.  there, i've said it.  anyone else feel
> this way?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 18:57:01 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 18:57:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
Message-ID: <551256.33337.qm@web54205.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Is it just me or does this just BEG to be the target of some DaDa-ism...L.H.O.O.Q...
Heck, at 600 years...if the last 600 years are anything they'll be extremely lucky if it remains in the same hands (or decendants of the same hands)...
wasn't Germany part of the Roman Empire 600 years ago under the Palaeologus-es-es?
http://historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/natmapce1360.htm
They will have none of this silly 20th century music in New Constantanople...or is that New Istanbul, heck it may be New Byzantium by then...

lettuce

----- Original Message ----
From: lx rudis <lx.rudis at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 5:12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord

boy howdy.

there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
being memorialized.

...can't really call this a 'performance'.? 'management exercise' seems a
bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to its
conclusion.? how's it being financed?

and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of the
piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.

i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in the
60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
time' pieces.

somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
it smells like an administrative stunt to me.? the work of one or more
underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.

it just doesn't sit right with me.? there, i've said it.? anyone else feel
this way?
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From bthrew at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 21:08:22 2008
From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 21:08:22 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] free gear!
Message-ID: <32C28637-37BA-4BBC-9F0E-62EEDD06F514@gmail.com>

So...we are in the process of cleaning out the Compound, so that means  
there will be periodic free gear for anyone interested.

Lot 1:
1 Alesis ADAT XT
1 Sony PCM-2700 DAT Machine

Both are in excellent condition, the DAT machine MAY have a problem,  
but it hasn't been used in so long we're not sure...

Holler back.

bt

barry threw
Media Art and Technology

San Francisco, CA
Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
Web: www.barrythrew.com


From zjaffee at yahoo.com  Wed Jul  9 21:18:32 2008
From: zjaffee at yahoo.com (Zac Jaffee)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 21:18:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's sixth chord
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1215662404.29417.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <995836.856.qm@web51502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I think it's beautiful. And who is to say it won't last it's 600 or so years. Can't one strive for such a thing? And if it doesn't happen, who gives a shit. Certainly not Cage. And hopefully our cynical asses will also be dead before the thing fails too. Amen.
 


      

From ie at allwaysnorth.com  Wed Jul  9 21:30:13 2008
From: ie at allwaysnorth.com (Cheryl Leonard)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 21:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] free gear!
In-Reply-To: <32C28637-37BA-4BBC-9F0E-62EEDD06F514@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <687936.82386.qm@web82503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Barry,

If it's not spoken for yet I'm interested in the DAT Machine. 

Cheryl Leonard
ie at allwaysnorth.com
415-271-7288

barry threw <bthrew at gmail.com> wrote: So...we are in the process of cleaning out the Compound, so that means  
there will be periodic free gear for anyone interested.

Lot 1:
1 Alesis ADAT XT
1 Sony PCM-2700 DAT Machine

Both are in excellent condition, the DAT machine MAY have a problem,  
but it hasn't been used in so long we're not sure...

Holler back.

bt

barry threw
Media Art and Technology

San Francisco, CA
Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
Web: www.barrythrew.com

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From lx.rudis at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 22:39:49 2008
From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:39:49 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <a7177e350807091832v74103b14tb2a6086fd6470494@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<a7177e350807091832v74103b14tb2a6086fd6470494@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7272233a0807092239x67cf11f6h4e12217141118cae@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Brady Sharp <bradysharp at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think your reaction and everyone else's for the next 631 years is
> probably
> the original intent of the piece.


right, i won't deny playing into that.  but the more i felt 'suckered' into
that feeling  by some sort of 'western ego' thing, the more i became
convinced that it was worthwhile to say 'hey, the emperor has no clothes on
here'.

so i thought about it briefly, then posted my opinion.

in this particular case, it's my opinion that there is no 'there' there.
i'll acknowledge that i'm operating from partial knowledge - for all i know,
there's a great  theoretical foundation to this piece being performed, all
possibilities have been accounted for in regard to the church, consortium or
whatever to keep the thing going for six centuries, and i'm just being an
old fuddy duddy.

 Internet discussion just doesn't seem to
> add to the music as much as vocal protest at the actual performance does...


i dunno.

with a piece of 'music' this abstract, it doesn't seem important to even be
there.
and if the composer specifically wants commentary, email probably does the
trick.
likely about 100 times more people talking about it...


>
> Wasn't 4:33 just as much a "management excercise"... honestly... :^)
>

yes, i agree with you. and i think that's a valid piece, too.

it's just that i see things like this particular cage thing with the organ,
it doesn't seem to have much cultural resonance or significance to me.  the
piece has been slowed down to run for centuries, but i' don't hear much
about the aesthetic or even objective decisions made to slow it down.  [then
again, i have to admit that i'm reading a BBC article, not an artists'
manifesto]

cage is sort of a 'house brand' for indeterminacy and theatrically 'modern'
music, but for god's sake.  couldn't they have chosen a la monte young
piece?   or maybe commission someone new?  hell, or eno.  pbltt. :P

alicia:
>The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be
>abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer.

it's so hard to say with cage's stuff, though.  he'd probably claim that
abandonment would be part of the 'plan'.

boy that's conundrummish...

> ...just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that

i think this was one of the main things that bugged me about all this.
sort of like embedded lame-ness.

> kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece
> afterward too.

yeah, and i suppose must be Celebrated.
...see, when i look at this thing in an Eastern Way and such, the Question
comes up as to whether or not i should be saddened by an effort that never
completes.  arrgh.

arrgh, i shouldn't have spoken up in the first place.
that man! oooooh, he deserves such a noogie.
arrrgh. arrrgh.  pbltt.  grr!

From shiurba at pacbell.net  Wed Jul  9 22:58:53 2008
From: shiurba at pacbell.net (John Shiurba)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:58:53 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's sixth chord change in German church
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1215662404.29417.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1215662404.29417.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <4D99CF12-02F7-425E-AA81-E549EB59747A@pacbell.net>

I am reminded of once being scheduled to play in the 2nd group---  
scheduled to go on right after ASLSP... eesh...
the pianist promised it "wouldn't be too long"
On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 11:43:37 -0500
>> From: "Robair, Gino" <Gino.Robair at penton.com>
>> Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's sixth chord change in German church
>> To: New Music <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Message-ID: <C498E749.14C14%Gino.Robair at penton.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7490776.stm


From bthrew at gmail.com  Thu Jul 10 10:16:57 2008
From: bthrew at gmail.com (Barry Threw)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:16:57 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] free gear!
In-Reply-To: <687936.82386.qm@web82503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <687936.82386.qm@web82503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0BA21EE5-85AE-4C03-92C7-9E39667A3FEE@gmail.com>

It is yours.

I'll call you to figure out transfer logistics.

bt

On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:30 PM, Cheryl Leonard wrote:

> Hi Barry,
>
> If it's not spoken for yet I'm interested in the DAT Machine.
>
> Cheryl Leonard
> ie at allwaysnorth.com
> 415-271-7288
>
> barry threw <bthrew at gmail.com> wrote: So...we are in the process of  
> cleaning out the Compound, so that means
> there will be periodic free gear for anyone interested.
>
> Lot 1:
> 1 Alesis ADAT XT
> 1 Sony PCM-2700 DAT Machine
>
> Both are in excellent condition, the DAT machine MAY have a problem,
> but it hasn't been used in so long we're not sure...
>
> Holler back.
>
> bt
>
> barry threw
> Media Art and Technology
>
> San Francisco, CA
> Work: 857-544-3967
> Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
> Web: www.barrythrew.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From td at pixar.com  Thu Jul 10 21:51:35 2008
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <7272233a0807092239x67cf11f6h4e12217141118cae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<a7177e350807091832v74103b14tb2a6086fd6470494@mail.gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807092239x67cf11f6h4e12217141118cae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0807102138570.17734@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>


I think what's going on makes sense in Fluxus terms.  The essence of
Fluxus is to take silly, vague or impossible instructions and treat them
as though they were meant seriously.  That's what's going on here.  It's
especially appropriate because the whole Fluxus movement started with a
bunch of New York artists & composers who studied under Cage in the 1950s
and who absorbed his Zen-soaked world view, particularly the part that has
trouble untangling zazen from comedy.

Does a punch line have Buddha nature?

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, lx rudis wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Brady Sharp <bradysharp at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > I think your reaction and everyone else's for the next 631 years is
> > probably
> > the original intent of the piece.
> 
> 
> right, i won't deny playing into that.  but the more i felt 'suckered' into
> that feeling  by some sort of 'western ego' thing, the more i became
> convinced that it was worthwhile to say 'hey, the emperor has no clothes on
> here'.
> 
> so i thought about it briefly, then posted my opinion.
> 
> in this particular case, it's my opinion that there is no 'there' there.
> i'll acknowledge that i'm operating from partial knowledge - for all i know,
> there's a great  theoretical foundation to this piece being performed, all
> possibilities have been accounted for in regard to the church, consortium or
> whatever to keep the thing going for six centuries, and i'm just being an
> old fuddy duddy.
> 
>  Internet discussion just doesn't seem to
> > add to the music as much as vocal protest at the actual performance does...
> 
> 
> i dunno.
> 
> with a piece of 'music' this abstract, it doesn't seem important to even be
> there.
> and if the composer specifically wants commentary, email probably does the
> trick.
> likely about 100 times more people talking about it...
> 
> 
> >
> > Wasn't 4:33 just as much a "management excercise"... honestly... :^)
> >
> 
> yes, i agree with you. and i think that's a valid piece, too.
> 
> it's just that i see things like this particular cage thing with the organ,
> it doesn't seem to have much cultural resonance or significance to me.  the
> piece has been slowed down to run for centuries, but i' don't hear much
> about the aesthetic or even objective decisions made to slow it down.  [then
> again, i have to admit that i'm reading a BBC article, not an artists'
> manifesto]
> 
> cage is sort of a 'house brand' for indeterminacy and theatrically 'modern'
> music, but for god's sake.  couldn't they have chosen a la monte young
> piece?   or maybe commission someone new?  hell, or eno.  pbltt. :P
> 
> alicia:
> >The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be
> >abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer.
> 
> it's so hard to say with cage's stuff, though.  he'd probably claim that
> abandonment would be part of the 'plan'.
> 
> boy that's conundrummish...
> 
> > ...just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that
> 
> i think this was one of the main things that bugged me about all this.
> sort of like embedded lame-ness.
> 
> > kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece
> > afterward too.
> 
> yeah, and i suppose must be Celebrated.
> ...see, when i look at this thing in an Eastern Way and such, the Question
> comes up as to whether or not i should be saddened by an effort that never
> completes.  arrgh.
> 
> arrgh, i shouldn't have spoken up in the first place.
> that man! oooooh, he deserves such a noogie.
> arrrgh. arrrgh.  pbltt.  grr!
> 
> 

-- 
Tom Duff.  File edit view special!

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jul 11 02:14:54 2008
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:14:54 -1000
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0807102138570.17734@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
References: <mailman.1.1215576003.27908.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<48747CB7.9090308@gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807091712l3170c48dwf0d0ecb81dc77b2f@mail.gmail.com>
	<a7177e350807091832v74103b14tb2a6086fd6470494@mail.gmail.com>
	<7272233a0807092239x67cf11f6h4e12217141118cae@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0807102138570.17734@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
Message-ID: <5DABB110-5DA9-42D6-AE35-7039E266C020@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Jul 10, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Tom Duff wrote:

> I think what's going on makes sense in Fluxus terms.

"Creep into the vagina of a living whale."

No one writes shit like that anymore. . . sigh. . .




> The essence of
> Fluxus is to take silly, vague or impossible instructions and treat  
> them
> as though they were meant seriously.  That's what's going on here.   
> It's
> especially appropriate because the whole Fluxus movement started  
> with a
> bunch of New York artists & composers who studied under Cage in the  
> 1950s
> and who absorbed his Zen-soaked world view, particularly the part  
> that has
> trouble untangling zazen from comedy.
>
> Does a punch line have Buddha nature?
>
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, lx rudis wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Brady Sharp <bradysharp at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think your reaction and everyone else's for the next 631 years is
>>> probably
>>> the original intent of the piece.
>>
>>
>> right, i won't deny playing into that.  but the more i felt  
>> 'suckered' into
>> that feeling  by some sort of 'western ego' thing, the more i became
>> convinced that it was worthwhile to say 'hey, the emperor has no  
>> clothes on
>> here'.
>>
>> so i thought about it briefly, then posted my opinion.
>>
>> in this particular case, it's my opinion that there is no 'there'  
>> there.
>> i'll acknowledge that i'm operating from partial knowledge - for  
>> all i know,
>> there's a great  theoretical foundation to this piece being  
>> performed, all
>> possibilities have been accounted for in regard to the church,  
>> consortium or
>> whatever to keep the thing going for six centuries, and i'm just  
>> being an
>> old fuddy duddy.
>>
>> Internet discussion just doesn't seem to
>>> add to the music as much as vocal protest at the actual  
>>> performance does...
>>
>>
>> i dunno.
>>
>> with a piece of 'music' this abstract, it doesn't seem important to  
>> even be
>> there.
>> and if the composer specifically wants commentary, email probably  
>> does the
>> trick.
>> likely about 100 times more people talking about it...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Wasn't 4:33 just as much a "management excercise"... honestly... :^)
>>>
>>
>> yes, i agree with you. and i think that's a valid piece, too.
>>
>> it's just that i see things like this particular cage thing with  
>> the organ,
>> it doesn't seem to have much cultural resonance or significance to  
>> me.  the
>> piece has been slowed down to run for centuries, but i' don't hear  
>> much
>> about the aesthetic or even objective decisions made to slow it  
>> down.  [then
>> again, i have to admit that i'm reading a BBC article, not an  
>> artists'
>> manifesto]
>>
>> cage is sort of a 'house brand' for indeterminacy and theatrically  
>> 'modern'
>> music, but for god's sake.  couldn't they have chosen a la monte  
>> young
>> piece?   or maybe commission someone new?  hell, or eno.  pbltt. :P
>>
>> alicia:
>>> The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be
>>> abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the  
>>> composer.
>>
>> it's so hard to say with cage's stuff, though.  he'd probably claim  
>> that
>> abandonment would be part of the 'plan'.
>>
>> boy that's conundrummish...
>>
>>> ...just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power  
>>> and that
>>
>> i think this was one of the main things that bugged me about all  
>> this.
>> sort of like embedded lame-ness.
>>
>>> kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece
>>> afterward too.
>>
>> yeah, and i suppose must be Celebrated.
>> ...see, when i look at this thing in an Eastern Way and such, the  
>> Question
>> comes up as to whether or not i should be saddened by an effort  
>> that never
>> completes.  arrgh.
>>
>> arrgh, i shouldn't have spoken up in the first place.
>> that man! oooooh, he deserves such a noogie.
>> arrrgh. arrrgh.  pbltt.  grr!
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Tom Duff.  File edit view special!
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From dcomposer at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 11 08:35:05 2008
From: dcomposer at earthlink.net (Dan Joseph)
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 11:35:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Help a visiting musician!
Message-ID: <18783767.1215790505950.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello newmusic list members,

I will be visiting the Bay Area later this month and am seeking to borrow a Behringer FCB 1010 midi foot controller for two performances. If anyone is willing to loan me this unit for four days, I will happily reciprocate  when you visit New York, or offer other form of barter.

Thanks, Dan

--
Dan Joseph | 718-930-2286
www.danjoseph.org | Skype: dcomposer

Sun. July 20, 8pm - Dan Joseph (solo) @ The Stone (Ave. C & 2nd St.) 

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 00:03:09 2008
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:03:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
Message-ID: <985947.87252.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've sat through some shit that seemed like it lasted 600 years, and I've also left some pieces wondering if in 600 years I'd ever?come to appreciate it.??But hell, if you're gonna do something, why not?at least ask that it lasts 600 years?? How silly and small-minded?a 20 minute or 20 year piece seems by comparison.
Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years?? Think about this contextually- if I wrote a piece and requested it be played over the span of 600 years, nobody would pay any mind whatsoever.? I can't play a piece for 2 minutes and keep anyone's interest.? But he had the clout and balls to dare push the boundries of music well beyond what anyone dare attempt.? And, he fucking pulled it off; at least?so far.? You short-sighted nay-sayers who insist the piece can't last 600 years are the same ones who said nobody would break DiMaggio's hit streak, and true nobody has, but what's it hurt?to try?
Music is nothing more than a concept.? Why be reasonable?? One or more underemployed philosophers with nothing to say?? Fuck you, dipshit.? the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your ignorance.? If you think "just being" is a shallow pit, why not stop being for the sake of the rest of us, whom you presumably treat as "just beings?"
Oops, guess I've has too many martinis this evening.
Andrew??

?Ev oida oti oudev oida


http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
http://oudevoida.blogspot.com


----- Original Message ----
From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 6:33:37 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord

it seems more likely to me that it's at least partially a publicity 
stunt for the town.. maybe that's what you mean. To get tourists. And 
maybe that's a little shallow... but it's just an organ sitting in a 
church somewhere, droning on. It's a nice concept and I really don't see 
how it hurts anybody.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be 
abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer. 
I mean why bother putting on a work that you intend to just abandon? 
They don't actually think it's going to go on for 600 years or whatever. 
Jeez, the organ wouldn't even last that long. They're just "Using" the 
piece for shock value or cachet or whatever you want to call it. They 
should choose a more reasonable time-frame like 10-20 years and then it 
would actually be completed. Maybe that seems too pragmatic, but I think 
just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that 
kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece 
afterward too.

Alicia

lx rudis wrote:
> boy howdy.
>
> there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
> being memorialized.
>
> ...can't really call this a 'performance'.? 'management exercise' seems a
> bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to its
> conclusion.? how's it being financed?
>
> and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of the
> piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
> music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
> to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.
>
> i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
> shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in the
> 60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
> time' pieces.
>
> somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
> it smells like an administrative stunt to me.? the work of one or more
> underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.
>
> it just doesn't sit right with me.? there, i've said it.? anyone else feel
> this way?
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>? 

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Sat Jul 12 00:11:10 2008
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 00:11:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <985947.87252.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <985947.87252.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4878590E.1020903@gmail.com>

Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years? 

-That's what you say now, but like somebody else said, human society may 
be totally different then and maybe it won't even be relevant. who 
knows. It's a nice lofty idea but just fantasy. you think you're being 
devoted by standing by the 600-year thing but I don't think that kind of 
"Legacy" was really even Cage's intent either. He wanted us to think 
about these ideas, not be put on some pedestal. It's more important to 
get cage's message (if you like his message) out to more people, not 
just put on some publicity stunt.

alicia


andrew wilshusen wrote:
> I've sat through some shit that seemed like it lasted 600 years, and I've also left some pieces wondering if in 600 years I'd ever come to appreciate it.  But hell, if you're gonna do something, why not at least ask that it lasts 600 years?  How silly and small-minded a 20 minute or 20 year piece seems by comparison.
> Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years?  Think about this contextually- if I wrote a piece and requested it be played over the span of 600 years, nobody would pay any mind whatsoever.  I can't play a piece for 2 minutes and keep anyone's interest.  But he had the clout and balls to dare push the boundries of music well beyond what anyone dare attempt.  And, he fucking pulled it off; at least so far.  You short-sighted nay-sayers who insist the piece can't last 600 years are the same ones who said nobody would break DiMaggio's hit streak, and true nobody has, but what's it hurt to try?
> Music is nothing more than a concept.  Why be reasonable?  One or more underemployed philosophers with nothing to say?  Fuck you, dipshit.  the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your ignorance.  If you think "just being" is a shallow pit, why not stop being for the sake of the rest of us, whom you presumably treat as "just beings?"
> Oops, guess I've has too many martinis this evening.
> Andrew  
>
>  Ev oida oti oudev oida
>
>
> http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
> http://oudevoida.blogspot.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 6:33:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
>
> it seems more likely to me that it's at least partially a publicity 
> stunt for the town.. maybe that's what you mean. To get tourists. And 
> maybe that's a little shallow... but it's just an organ sitting in a 
> church somewhere, droning on. It's a nice concept and I really don't see 
> how it hurts anybody.
>
> The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be 
> abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer. 
> I mean why bother putting on a work that you intend to just abandon? 
> They don't actually think it's going to go on for 600 years or whatever. 
> Jeez, the organ wouldn't even last that long. They're just "Using" the 
> piece for shock value or cachet or whatever you want to call it. They 
> should choose a more reasonable time-frame like 10-20 years and then it 
> would actually be completed. Maybe that seems too pragmatic, but I think 
> just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that 
> kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece 
> afterward too.
>
> Alicia
>
> lx rudis wrote:
>   
>> boy howdy.
>>
>> there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
>> being memorialized.
>>
>> ...can't really call this a 'performance'.  'management exercise' seems a
>> bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to its
>> conclusion.  how's it being financed?
>>
>> and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of the
>> piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
>> music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
>> to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.
>>
>> i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
>> shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in the
>> 60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
>> time' pieces.
>>
>> somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
>> it smells like an administrative stunt to me.  the work of one or more
>> underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.
>>
>> it just doesn't sit right with me.  there, i've said it.  anyone else feel
>> this way?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>   
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From bradysharp at gmail.com  Sat Jul 12 08:35:02 2008
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:35:02 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <4878590E.1020903@gmail.com>
References: <985947.87252.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4878590E.1020903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7177e350807120835w7426a4ap73c547396e4090d3@mail.gmail.com>

> It's more important to get cage's message (if you like his message) out to
more people, not
just put on some publicity stunt.

Call it a publicity stunt if you want to, but I think it's certainly getting
his message out.

>I don't think that kind of "Legacy" was really even Cage's intent either.
He wanted us to think about these ideas, not be put on some pedestal.

First, it's hard not to create some kind of "Legacy" while supporting the
goal of getting the word out about his music.  I'm sure Cage, being the
Zenist he is, realized that he had no real control over his "legacy" after
his death, and probably wasn't too worried about it.  IANACE (I am not a
Cage Expert), so I'll shut up now, but that's my ignorant opinion and I'm
sticking by it!

Second, it's a performance of a piece of his music, nothing more.  It's not
like a golden temple was built in his honor or anything.  It may never
finish, but I admire the enthusiasm for performing it, and we can only hope
that it will be finished.  It's like an eternal flame of hope for the next
631 years.  It's every bit as groundbreaking as Silence was in my opinion.

Who cares what the town's motivation is in performing it, and what a crappy
way to try to sell tourism to your town if that was their intent!  Couldn't
their CVB think of something much more effective?  :^)


Brady

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:11 AM, Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:

> Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years?
>
> -That's what you say now, but like somebody else said, human society may
> be totally different then and maybe it won't even be relevant. who
> knows. It's a nice lofty idea but just fantasy. you think you're being
> devoted by standing by the 600-year thing but I don't think that kind of
> "Legacy" was really even Cage's intent either. He wanted us to think
> about these ideas, not be put on some pedestal.
>
> alicia
>
>
> andrew wilshusen wrote:
> > I've sat through some shit that seemed like it lasted 600 years, and I've
> also left some pieces wondering if in 600 years I'd ever come to appreciate
> it.  But hell, if you're gonna do something, why not at least ask that it
> lasts 600 years?  How silly and small-minded a 20 minute or 20 year piece
> seems by comparison.
> > Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years?  Think about
> this contextually- if I wrote a piece and requested it be played over the
> span of 600 years, nobody would pay any mind whatsoever.  I can't play a
> piece for 2 minutes and keep anyone's interest.  But he had the clout and
> balls to dare push the boundries of music well beyond what anyone dare
> attempt.  And, he fucking pulled it off; at least so far.  You short-sighted
> nay-sayers who insist the piece can't last 600 years are the same ones who
> said nobody would break DiMaggio's hit streak, and true nobody has, but
> what's it hurt to try?
> > Music is nothing more than a concept.  Why be reasonable?  One or more
> underemployed philosophers with nothing to say?  Fuck you, dipshit.  the
> fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your ignorance.
>  If you think "just being" is a shallow pit, why not stop being for the sake
> of the rest of us, whom you presumably treat as "just beings?"
> > Oops, guess I've has too many martinis this evening.
> > Andrew
> >
> >  Ev oida oti oudev oida
> >
> >
> > http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
> > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 6:33:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
> >
> > it seems more likely to me that it's at least partially a publicity
> > stunt for the town.. maybe that's what you mean. To get tourists. And
> > maybe that's a little shallow... but it's just an organ sitting in a
> > church somewhere, droning on. It's a nice concept and I really don't see
> > how it hurts anybody.
> >
> > The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be
> > abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer.
> > I mean why bother putting on a work that you intend to just abandon?
> > They don't actually think it's going to go on for 600 years or whatever.
> > Jeez, the organ wouldn't even last that long. They're just "Using" the
> > piece for shock value or cachet or whatever you want to call it. They
> > should choose a more reasonable time-frame like 10-20 years and then it
> > would actually be completed. Maybe that seems too pragmatic, but I think
> > just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that
> > kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece
> > afterward too.
> >
> > Alicia
> >
> > lx rudis wrote:
> >
> >> boy howdy.
> >>
> >> there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
> >> being memorialized.
> >>
> >> ...can't really call this a 'performance'.  'management exercise' seems
> a
> >> bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to
> its
> >> conclusion.  how's it being financed?
> >>
> >> and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of
> the
> >> piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
> >> music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to
> me
> >> to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.
> >>
> >> i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such
> a
> >> shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in
> the
> >> 60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
> >> time' pieces.
> >>
> >> somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of
> love'.
> >> it smells like an administrative stunt to me.  the work of one or more
> >> underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.
> >>
> >> it just doesn't sit right with me.  there, i've said it.  anyone else
> feel
> >> this way?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Sat Jul 12 09:57:12 2008
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:57:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
Message-ID: <256618.88848.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>>From: Alicia Byer aliciabyer at gmail.com:


>Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years? 

>>-That's what you say now, but like somebody else said, human society may 
>>be totally different then and maybe it won't even be relevant. 
Obviously anything can only be said now.? I wasn't planning on giving my opinion 600 years from now.? What anybody thinks of anything 600 years from now is irrelevent.? Only now and how now affects the future is relevent.? We don't view the Egyptian pyramids the same as how they were viewed when they were built.? does that make them irrelevent?? Only as irrelevent as everything else.? Perhaps they shouldn't have been built because maybe someday they'll be irrelevent.
>>It's more important to 
>>get cage's message (if you like his message) out to more people, not 
>>just put on some publicity stunt.

If you're reducing this piece to "publicity stunt," why not just say every piece ever meant to be performed in public is a publicity stunt?? Beethoven's 9th is a publicity stunt, and it might be irrelevent someday, so?I don't know why anybody ever plays it.? We don't even know what he meant for it to be when he wrote it.? Did he even want for it to be performed after his death???Also,?performing Cage's piece is somehow detracting from getting his "message" out?? Excuse me, but what the hell are you talking about?
Sober now and still annoyed,
Andrew


andrew wilshusen wrote:
> I've sat through some shit that seemed like it lasted 600 years, and I've also left some pieces wondering if in 600 years I'd ever come to appreciate it.? But hell, if you're gonna do something, why not at least ask that it lasts 600 years?? How silly and small-minded a 20 minute or 20 year piece seems by comparison.
> Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years?? Think about this contextually- if I wrote a piece and requested it be played over the span of 600 years, nobody would pay any mind whatsoever.? I can't play a piece for 2 minutes and keep anyone's interest.? But he had the clout and balls to dare push the boundries of music well beyond what anyone dare attempt.? And, he fucking pulled it off; at least so far.? You short-sighted nay-sayers who insist the piece can't last 600 years are the same ones who said nobody would break DiMaggio's hit streak, and true nobody has, but what's it hurt to try?
> Music is nothing more than a concept.? Why be reasonable?? One or more underemployed philosophers with nothing to say?? Fuck you, dipshit.? the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your ignorance.? If you think "just being" is a shallow pit, why not stop being for the sake of the rest of us, whom you presumably treat as "just beings?"
> Oops, guess I've has too many martinis this evening.
> Andrew? 
>
>? Ev oida oti oudev oida
>
>
> http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
> http://oudevoida.blogspot.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 6:33:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
>
> it seems more likely to me that it's at least partially a publicity 
> stunt for the town.. maybe that's what you mean. To get tourists. And 
> maybe that's a little shallow... but it's just an organ sitting in a 
> church somewhere, droning on. It's a nice concept and I really don't see 
> how it hurts anybody.
>
> The only thing I don't like about it is that it is just going to be 
> abandoned at some point, which seems a little offensive to the composer. 
> I mean why bother putting on a work that you intend to just abandon? 
> They don't actually think it's going to go on for 600 years or whatever. 
> Jeez, the organ wouldn't even last that long. They're just "Using" the 
> piece for shock value or cachet or whatever you want to call it. They 
> should choose a more reasonable time-frame like 10-20 years and then it 
> would actually be completed. Maybe that seems too pragmatic, but I think 
> just discontinuing the piece really robs it of a lot of power and that 
> kind of abandonment is going to hang around the feeling of the piece 
> afterward too.
>
> Alicia
>
> lx rudis wrote:
>? 
>> boy howdy.
>>
>> there's something horribly fatalistic about this piece, and the way it's
>> being memorialized.
>>
>> ...can't really call this a 'performance'.? 'management exercise' seems a
>> bit more accurate, although i've no idea how they intend to manage it to its
>> conclusion.? how's it being financed?
>>
>> and after considering its original brisk 29minutes [original playtime of the
>> piece in question], i defy most 'casual listeners' to 'know' a piece of
>> music...of course, cage gets the last laugh; his own definitions seem to me
>> to exclude the notion of anyone knowing much of anything, ever.
>>
>> i suppose there's justification in its 'just being'....but that is such a
>> shallow pit to mine, and i believe it was already well mined-out back in the
>> 60s when people like lamonte young and terry riley were working on 'long
>> time' pieces.
>>
>> somehow i can't see this application of this piece being a 'labor of love'.
>> it smells like an administrative stunt to me.? the work of one or more
>> underemployed would-be philosophers with nothing to say.
>>
>> it just doesn't sit right with me.? there, i've said it.? anyone else feel
>> this way?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>? 
>>? ? 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
>? ? ? 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>? 

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From lx.rudis at gmail.com  Sat Jul 12 11:57:33 2008
From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:57:33 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <985947.87252.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <985947.87252.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7272233a0807121157t67d0f092o78f4260b4564dac5@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Music is nothing more than a concept.  Why be reasonable?  One or more
> underemployed philosophers with nothing to say?


music is a hell of a lot more than concept.  sorry my own words led you to
this spectacular, adamant conclusion.


Fuck you, dipshit.


what exactly do you _do_, andrew?  and why did you need to drop to this
level this fast?
i feel like i've stampeded an entire herd of sacred cows.


> the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your
> ignorance.


thanks for that.  i'm always glad to be educated by my betters.

menen's 'Art and Money' provides things such as bitter notes from Leonardo
about how he's been ripped off by the cardinal, how it might reflect back
in the work he was -commissioned- to produce.

another anecdote - journalist asks picasso 'what does it mean to be
picasso'.  picasso signs $1 bill, hands it back - 'there, this dollar bill
is now worth one hundred dollars, THAT is what it means to be picasso'.

i could go on and on.  both my parents were professional artists.  i heard a
lot of this sh!t growing up.

oop!  guess that's my bad there - if i follow your words,  'professional'
and 'artist' are oxymorons.

so much for all those colleges and expensive art degrees out there.


> If you think "just being" is a shallow pit,


Silence was a lesson poorly taught:  cage's philosophy, although it breached
out into popular society quite nicely, didn't penetrate.  i still have to
pay rent.  i still deal with publishers and people who won't dick around -
they'll GLADLY and AUTHORITATIVELY tell me i'm a dipshit if the creative
work i do for them doesn't yield profit or a shippable product.

...this 600 year piece, it smells funded.
it doesn't seem to yield much of anything.
the conceptual framework it's hung upon is shaky shaky shaky.

the FAMOUS PERSON who originated the idea isn't around to support his own
idea.
the reason it appears to exist is because a FAMOUS PERSON 'authored' it.
and what did he author?

so AS I SAID EARLIER, i _thought about it briefly_, then decided to
comment.  and now i've discovered that i'm a dipshit.  so be it.


> why not stop being for the sake of the rest of us, whom you presumably
> treat as "just beings?"


sure thing, andrew.

when _i'm_ literally 'just being', that's a grand place.  if i could stay
there always, i would.

i've even been coached on doing that, both for free and for _hard earned
cash_, because i thought i was going NUTS.
oh, btw - without the cash, no counseling.  probably no internet either.
and is it ok if i live on your couch?  we could have lots of fun discussing
art!

do i 'know' anything....?  snare roll please:
i don't know a damned thing.  as much as i try to learn, i know less and
less daily...
i'm an increasingly small bit within a very large and expanding system,
itself amazingly documented, with more documentation rolling in daily.

such as info on this 600 year long 'extended remix' of some notion that cage
provided his puzzled public.

i can feel things, and can say 'ouch' or 'something's fishy here'.

something's fishy here.  if we're 'composers', we should consider what that
means.
if we want to be 'philosophers', we should consider how that art folds into
the idea of composition, and figure out where we sit.

i dont' think this 600year piece has been figured out.
that's ok with me if it's philosophy.
but as a composition, no.  it doesn't work for _me_ as a composition.

and that's why i said ouch ouch ouch.  not because i think _you_ should
compose the way i do, or because i think the work is 'bad'.

is it art?  hmm.  what would picasso say?  ...well i laid that one out
already.  he'd probably ask what the budget was.

how about duchamp?  he played chess with cage, after all..
great, i can hear them in my head right now....with that framed, now let's
go ask paris hilton.   :P

From djcypod at gmail.com  Sat Jul 12 15:18:56 2008
From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:18:56 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] free gear!
In-Reply-To: <0BA21EE5-85AE-4C03-92C7-9E39667A3FEE@gmail.com>
References: <687936.82386.qm@web82503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<0BA21EE5-85AE-4C03-92C7-9E39667A3FEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fc5507fa0807121518w5456d72ct1c32498b9fc9fb98@mail.gmail.com>

If no one has grabbed the ADAT yet, I'll take it! Maybe bring it by
the skronkathon tomorrow for the transfer?

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Barry Threw <bthrew at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is yours.
>
> I'll call you to figure out transfer logistics.
>
> bt
>
> On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:30 PM, Cheryl Leonard wrote:
>
>> Hi Barry,
>>
>> If it's not spoken for yet I'm interested in the DAT Machine.
>>
>> Cheryl Leonard
>> ie at allwaysnorth.com
>> 415-271-7288
>>
>> barry threw <bthrew at gmail.com> wrote: So...we are in the process of
>> cleaning out the Compound, so that means
>> there will be periodic free gear for anyone interested.
>>
>> Lot 1:
>> 1 Alesis ADAT XT
>> 1 Sony PCM-2700 DAT Machine
>>
>> Both are in excellent condition, the DAT machine MAY have a problem,
>> but it hasn't been used in so long we're not sure...
>>
>> Holler back.
>>
>> bt
>>
>> barry threw
>> Media Art and Technology
>>
>> San Francisco, CA
>> Work: 857-544-3967
>> Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
>> Web: www.barrythrew.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sat Jul 12 17:59:19 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:59:19 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Drums for William Hooker on the 19th?
Message-ID: <53DDE641-5919-4F63-AE51-A3050F91FC23@balancepointacoustics.com>

Can anyone lend drums to Hooker for the Hemlock gig? He can have them  
picked up and returned and you would get in +1. it is a 7pm show, the  
band is Hooker, Aaron Bennett and I.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sat Jul 12 20:43:39 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Drums for William Hooker on the 19th?
In-Reply-To: <53DDE641-5919-4F63-AE51-A3050F91FC23@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <456043.38911.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

He can use my drums, but he would have to pick them up and drop them back off (I don't have a car...).
   
  Drop a line, or talk to me tomorrow at the Skronkathon.
   
  PG

Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
  Can anyone lend drums to Hooker for the Hemlock gig? He can have them 
picked up and returned and you would get in +1. it is a 7pm show, the 
band is Hooker, Aaron Bennett and I.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From abennett at calarts.edu  Sat Jul 12 22:24:00 2008
From: abennett at calarts.edu (Aaron Bennett)
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:24:00 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1215926659.28524.newmusic@music.mills.edu>

Mr. Lx Rudis,

 

Nothing you have written below effectively argues that monetary success
validates worth.

 

Perhaps you didn't see the word "validates" and you define "worth" as price
in the market place?

 

I don't know what universe you would have to live in to actually argue this
point! (maybe Ayn Rand's?)

 

Shit, I know a lot of "professional" artist who make plenty valid art with
little monetary success and know of many who make worthless shit worth
millions.don't you?

 

 

Wilshusen wrote:

>> the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your

>> ignorance.

 

Lx Rudis wrote:

>thanks for that.  i'm always glad to be educated by my betters.

 

>enen's 'Art and Money' provides things such as bitter notes from Leonardo

>about how he's been ripped off by the cardinal, how it might reflect back

>in the work he was -commissioned- to produce.

 

>another anecdote - journalist asks picasso 'what does it mean to be

>picasso'.  picasso signs $1 bill, hands it back - 'there, this dollar bill

>is now worth one hundred dollars, THAT is what it means to be picasso'.

 

>i could go on and on.  both my parents were professional artists.  i heard
a

>lot of this sh!t growing up.

 

>oop!  guess that's my bad there - if i follow your words,  'professional'

>and 'artist' are oxymorons.

 

>so much for all those colleges and expensive art degrees out there.

 


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sun Jul 13 13:11:15 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:11:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] "open jam" on thursday
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807131311l7b4cab32p9330c985d53e73e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

For the first set this thursday at luggage store, we're having an
"open jam". So, if you're interested in participating, please let me
know. The set will run from about 8pm to 9pm.

All instruments/experience levels welcome, but must be some sort of
experimental/avant-garde music. RSVPing with me is appreciated (and
I'll get your name on the event listing), but not mandatory.

We have a PA, but for this sort of thing if bringing an amp is
convenient, it usually makes for better sound.

Matt

From lx.rudis at gmail.com  Sun Jul 13 13:17:25 2008
From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:17:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
In-Reply-To: <71jipl$534s9@ironport1.mills.edu>
References: <71jipl$534s9@ironport1.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <7272233a0807131317t2ec8e472p20bbc3ae9cc4ef8f@mail.gmail.com>

look, i don't think $ = social capital.

but i do think that cage's work engages the concept of social capital, no
matter how bastardized the presentation is.
and i think this church stunt - i just don't like it.  so i said so.    i
said so, and now BOING we're arguing a side issue.

...does have a nice boingy ring to it though.  hasn't gone 'thud'...then
'silent'.

it's all resonance.  doesn't matter what the frequency is.
an LCD screen hooked to a community can function like a taut string.  pixels
and colors at mhz range, words and ideas come per minute or per hour...

so i'll try this from a different angle:

he wanted people to experience, to be both passive and engaged.  to be
alive.
he wanted us to appreciate the ongoing fantabulous composition of our own
world.
and, within reason, to participate in that composition, both by listening
and creating within it.

this _specific_ presentation of 'as long' opens up questions in my mind
about the responsibility of a composer choosing to devise extremely long
works.

-if one were to compose across generations, what is the role of rhythm,
consonance or dissonance.
-does the concept of a 'music' which primarily functions outside the realm
of human memory require re-definition of what constitutes 'performance' or
'appreciation'?

-can such a piece be considered to be strictly audio?

-if the work functions -separate- from responsibilities of
emotional/intellectual continuance on part of the audience, what is the
purpose of structure in the piece.

-is there a role for an architect in transgenerational composition?

-is there a responsibility for committee in effective presentation of
transgenerational composition?
[ http://www.john-cage.halberstadt.de/new/index.php?seite=sponsoring&l=e ]

-is 'place' key to this form?

-what is the ritual/spiritual significance of composition across
generations, especially if tied to a physical space?

-is there a familial responsibility to the role of 'audience' within the
concept of transgenerational composition?
[i.e. is there a social responsibility of the clan to ensure a continuing
audience for the work]


i'll say it again: we're all 'performing' this cage piece _right now_.
in discussing the audio waveforms being pooted out in germany, we vibrate
also!

it's all resonance.  doesn't matter what the frequency is.
a community functions like a taut string.

in this specific case, cage's ghost plucks.

in one of his biographies, cage relates leaving the new college with
cunningham, how they were still driving an old ford model A and were pretty
much penniless.  the students and other faculty [also underfunded] had
gathered around the car to see them off. when cage backed the car up, he and
merce discovered that the community had placed artwork, food items, cooking
utensils, blankets under the car.   if this is reported accurately, i feel
it speaks directly to the true goal of cage's work.

x

From setar at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 13 19:59:59 2008
From: setar at pacbell.net (Katherine Setar)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:59:59 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1215921604.990.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1215921604.990.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <487AC12F.5050908@pacbell.net>

I think Cage would have been thrilled with this performance of his work. 
  Look  at how many people have been touched by it.  Look at how many 
are thinking and "imagining" about this performance.

Katherine Setar
newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote: [snip]
 >
 > Today's Topics:
 >
 >    1. Re: Cage's Sixth Chord (andrew wilshusen)
 >    2. Re: Cage's Sixth Chord (Alicia Byer)
 >    3. Re: Cage's Sixth Chord (Brady Sharp)
 >    4. Re: Cage's Sixth Chord (andrew wilshusen)
 >    5. Re: Cage's Sixth Chord (lx rudis))
> 
> I've sat through some shit that seemed like it lasted 600 years, and I've also left some pieces wondering if in 600 years I'd ever?come to appreciate it.??But hell, if you're gonna do something, why not?at least ask that it lasts 600 years?? How silly and small-minded?a 20 minute or 20 year piece seems by comparison.
> Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years?? Think about this contextually- if I wrote a piece and requested it be played over the span of 600 years, nobody would pay any mind whatsoever.? I can't play a piece for 2 minutes and keep anyone's interest.? But he had the clout and balls to dare push the boundries of music well beyond what anyone dare attempt.? And, he fucking pulled it off; at least?so far.? You short-sighted nay-sayers who insist the piece can't last 600 years are the same ones who said nobody would break DiMaggio's hit streak, and true nobody has, but what's it hurt?to try?
> Music is nothing more than a concept.? Why be reasonable?? One or more underemployed philosophers with nothing to say?? Fuck you, dipshit.? the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your ignorance.? If you think "just being" is a shallow pit, why not stop being for the sake of the rest of us, whom you presumably treat as "just beings?"
> Oops, guess I've has too many martinis this evening. [snip]

From katttsammon at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 13 20:33:46 2008
From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:33:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
In-Reply-To: <71jipl$534s9@ironport1.mills.edu>
References: <71jipl$534s9@ironport1.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W47A0523A175DEDCAAFF4E6A28D0@phx.gbl>


Shit, I know a lot of "professional" artist who make plenty valid art with
little monetary success and know of many who make worthless shit worth
millions.don't you?

********* sounds like everyone on my planet!!!!!!

as always aaron...well said.

kattt


----------------------------------------
> From: abennett at calarts.edu
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 22:24:00 -0700
> Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
> 
> Mr. Lx Rudis,
> 
>  
> 
> Nothing you have written below effectively argues that monetary success
> validates worth.
> 
>  
> 
> Perhaps you didn't see the word "validates" and you define "worth" as price
> in the market place?
> 
>  
> 
> I don't know what universe you would have to live in to actually argue this
> point! (maybe Ayn Rand's?)
> 
>  
> 
> Shit, I know a lot of "professional" artist who make plenty valid art with
> little monetary success and know of many who make worthless shit worth
> millions.don't you?
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Wilshusen wrote:
> 
>>> the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your
> 
>>> ignorance.
> 
>  
> 
> Lx Rudis wrote:
> 
>>thanks for that.  i'm always glad to be educated by my betters.
> 
>  
> 
>>enen's 'Art and Money' provides things such as bitter notes from Leonardo
> 
>>about how he's been ripped off by the cardinal, how it might reflect back
> 
>>in the work he was -commissioned- to produce.
> 
>  
> 
>>another anecdote - journalist asks picasso 'what does it mean to be
> 
>>picasso'.  picasso signs $1 bill, hands it back - 'there, this dollar bill
> 
>>is now worth one hundred dollars, THAT is what it means to be picasso'.
> 
>  
> 
>>i could go on and on.  both my parents were professional artists.  i heard
> a
> 
>>lot of this sh!t growing up.
> 
>  
> 
>>oop!  guess that's my bad there - if i follow your words,  'professional'
> 
>>and 'artist' are oxymorons.
> 
>  
> 
>>so much for all those colleges and expensive art degrees out there.
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sun Jul 13 22:24:38 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:24:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-W47A0523A175DEDCAAFF4E6A28D0@phx.gbl>
References: <71jipl$534s9@ironport1.mills.edu>
	<BAY135-W47A0523A175DEDCAAFF4E6A28D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <80222CC6-416D-4199-9A63-DB043E0CC99D@balancepointacoustics.com>

On Jul 13, 2008, at 8:33 PM, Kattt Sammon wrote:

> and know of many who make worthless shit worth
> millions.don't you?

- Yeah, but that changes - I saw a Jeff Koons show in Chicago in June  
and really got something out of it, so it is hard to say...

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Jul 14 12:06:27 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:06:27 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Cage's Sixth Chord
Message-ID: <C4A0F1C3.25CF2%21grand@21grand.org>

Lx rudis wrote:
so AS I SAID EARLIER, i _thought about it briefly_, then decided to
comment.  and now i've discovered that i'm a dipshit.  so be it

-- this encapsulates so many arguments on this list ... Moe! And Ava's piece
at last night's skronkathon was really entertaining.

sl



From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 12:18:55 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:18:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord...Koons...
Message-ID: <602297.45503.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>- Yeah, but that changes - I saw a Jeff Koons show in Chicago in June? 
>and really got something out of it, so it is hard to say...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT?????
HOW COULD YOU NOT GET SOMETHING OUT OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://flickr.com/photos/chrisp/85592919/

Damon, You've probably walked by it 500 times (given your liking of SFMOMA)....
lettuce

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 12:24:18 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord...Koons...
Message-ID: <29656.87093.qm@web54206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Sorry, better here....
http://www.sfmoma.org/msoma/artworks/88.html


----- Original Message ----
From: Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:18:55 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord...Koons...

>- Yeah, but that changes - I saw a Jeff Koons show in Chicago in June?
>and really got something out of it, so it is hard to say...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT?????
HOW COULD YOU NOT GET SOMETHING OUT OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://flickr.com/photos/chrisp/85592919/

Damon, You've probably walked by it 500 times (given your liking of SFMOMA)....
lettuce
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Mon Jul 14 12:26:53 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:26:53 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord...Koons...
In-Reply-To: <602297.45503.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <602297.45503.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <096C05D7-F518-4A64-B574-9AF7DE0D6F0A@balancepointacoustics.com>

Seeing that too many times made feel like all his art should be  
ground to bits, a whole overview was easier to take.

On Jul 14, 2008, at 12:18 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

>> - Yeah, but that changes - I saw a Jeff Koons show in Chicago in June
>> and really got something out of it, so it is hard to say...
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> WHAT?????
> HOW COULD YOU NOT GET SOMETHING OUT OF  
> THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> http://flickr.com/photos/chrisp/85592919/
>
> Damon, You've probably walked by it 500 times (given your liking of  
> SFMOMA)....
> lettuce
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 14 14:28:26 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:28:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord...Koons...
Message-ID: <848334.60292.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

OK, fair enough, but you might not want to stare at the sun either, it?may cause you to go blind?or lasers and all...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080714/od_nm/russia_rave_dc_2
lettuce

----- Original Message ----
From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:26:53 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord...Koons...

Seeing that too many times made feel like all his art should be? 
ground to bits, a whole overview was easier to take.

On Jul 14, 2008, at 12:18 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

>> - Yeah, but that changes - I saw a Jeff Koons show in Chicago in June
>> and really got something out of it, so it is hard to say...
>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> WHAT?????
> HOW COULD YOU NOT GET SOMETHING OUT OF? 
> THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> http://flickr.com/photos/chrisp/85592919/
>
> Damon, You've probably walked by it 500 times (given your liking of? 
> SFMOMA)....
> lettuce
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From tfbsaxman at hotmail.com  Mon Jul 14 17:39:38 2008
From: tfbsaxman at hotmail.com (Michael Cooke)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:39:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] We Want Composers!
Message-ID: <BAY102-W39079B72930B9F2D4044A3B78C0@phx.gbl>



The SFCCO is 
currently expanding its membership in the only Chamber Orchestra of its kind created by and for 
composers, devoted solely to promoting and performing 
original works by its members. All types of vocal and 
instrumental orchestral works are written and performed 
throughout the year, in a profusion of styles and genres as 
individual as the composers themselves. We offer the serious 
composer and player opportunities to work with skilled 
instrumentalists and conductors in a dedicated, 
collaborative environment; the ability to underwrite performances as a player with the Orchestra; recordings of all concert performances; ASCAP/BMI royalties, and more.
Please visit: www.sfcco.org/wewantyou.html for more 
information.
 
The San Francisco Composers Chamber Orchestra 
(SFCCO). Founded by Drs. Mark Alburger and Erling Wold in 2001, the orchestra 
consists primarily of composer/performers, forming a unique ensemble dedicated 
to democratizing the symphony orchestra, making it available to composers of 
many styles and in many stages of development, from the established to the very 
young. 
Since our 
first concert in March 2002, the SFCCO has premiered more new and vital works 
than any other orchestra in the Bay Area. Many of these composer/performers have 
advanced degrees; many are highly accomplished and recognized by their peers. 
Some have performed throughout the world, some have received awards from 
academic composition prizes to Emmys to fellowships and grants to Academy 
Awards. 
The result is 
an incredibly diverse offering of new music. In any one concert, the audience 
may hear styles ranging from the Neo-Romantic, Serial, Neo-Classical, Guided 
Improvisation, and Minimalist ? just to name a few. 
The SFCCO 
takes an informal approach to their concerts, emphasizing communication with the 
audience, talking to them before, between and after pieces, drawing them into 
the music-making. We have found that audience members appreciate this, that they 
learn something about why a piece is the way it is, why it was played a certain 
way, and that each of them leave the concerts with very different favorites. 

The 
music we play is not museum music. Most orchestras of today play music primarily 
from the Classical/Romantic period of the 1700s to the 1800s. However, during 
that era, orchestras presented new works every week. The SFCCO goal is to 
dramatically reverse this trend by performing 6-8 new works a concert instead of 
a few a year.
The San 
Francisco Composers Chamber Orchestra has been performing in San Francisco and 
the greater Bay Area for the six years under the baton of Mark Alburger, 
conductor, and John Kendall Bailey, associate conductor.
SFCCO
www.sfcco.org

Michael Cooke
http://www.blackhatrecords.com/
_________________________________________________________________
It?s a talkathon ? but it?s not just talk.
http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_JustTalk

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 15 09:19:52 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <4878590E.1020903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200317.25028.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:    Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years? 

-That's what you say now, but like somebody else said, human society may 
be totally different then and maybe it won't even be relevant. who 
knows. It's a nice lofty idea but just fantasy. 
   
   
  PG:
I'm not so sure the idea is merely "lofty". And no, no one knows what's going to be vital 600 years from now. That's the whole point. Create something and see if it has staying power...
   
  Do you think Hildegaard von Bingen thought her music would still be played today? Was it arrogant or sychophantic of her to write her music? It's a simple truth that her music is still being played today and it was written more than 600 years ago.

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 15 09:31:41 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
In-Reply-To: <71jipl$534s8@ironport1.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <694560.56163.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Money validates the status quo, not art.
   
  PG

Aaron Bennett <abennett at calarts.edu> wrote:
  Mr. Lx Rudis,



Nothing you have written below effectively argues that monetary success
validates worth.



Perhaps you didn't see the word "validates" and you define "worth" as price
in the market place?



I don't know what universe you would have to live in to actually argue this
point! (maybe Ayn Rand's?)



Shit, I know a lot of "professional" artist who make plenty valid art with
little monetary success and know of many who make worthless shit worth
millions.don't you?





Wilshusen wrote:

>> the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your

>> ignorance.



Lx Rudis wrote:

>thanks for that. i'm always glad to be educated by my betters.



>enen's 'Art and Money' provides things such as bitter notes from Leonardo

>about how he's been ripped off by the cardinal, how it might reflect back

>in the work he was -commissioned- to produce.



>another anecdote - journalist asks picasso 'what does it mean to be

>picasso'. picasso signs $1 bill, hands it back - 'there, this dollar bill

>is now worth one hundred dollars, THAT is what it means to be picasso'.



>i could go on and on. both my parents were professional artists. i heard
a

>lot of this sh!t growing up.



>oop! guess that's my bad there - if i follow your words, 'professional'

>and 'artist' are oxymorons.



>so much for all those colleges and expensive art degrees out there.



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 11:51:25 2008
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 11:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord
Message-ID: <108930.64208.qm@web55608.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

William Gisbon in Spook Country has an interesting thought about celebrity? as a form of being outside personal being.? The celebrity being takes on a life of its own that?can live beyond life and outside of control from the creator of the celebrity.? It fits well with the idea of?cultural archtypes as well.? This is more pronouced the further the culture goes to media as the culture.? It is interesting to wonder what Cage would have done with his concepts if he started in the 21st Century.? Much of his work was finding the seams in the Western Compositional framework of music and the questions that were being brought up in Post WWII culture.
?Jon Raskin



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 9:31:41 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Cage's 6th Chord

Money validates the status quo, not art.
? 
? PG

Aaron Bennett <abennett at calarts.edu> wrote:
? Mr. Lx Rudis,



Nothing you have written below effectively argues that monetary success
validates worth.



Perhaps you didn't see the word "validates" and you define "worth" as price
in the market place?



I don't know what universe you would have to live in to actually argue this
point! (maybe Ayn Rand's?)



Shit, I know a lot of "professional" artist who make plenty valid art with
little monetary success and know of many who make worthless shit worth
millions.don't you?





Wilshusen wrote:

>> the fact that you imply monetary success validates worth shows your

>> ignorance.



Lx Rudis wrote:

>thanks for that. i'm always glad to be educated by my betters.



>enen's 'Art and Money' provides things such as bitter notes from Leonardo

>about how he's been ripped off by the cardinal, how it might reflect back

>in the work he was -commissioned- to produce.



>another anecdote - journalist asks picasso 'what does it mean to be

>picasso'. picasso signs $1 bill, hands it back - 'there, this dollar bill

>is now worth one hundred dollars, THAT is what it means to be picasso'.



>i could go on and on. both my parents were professional artists. i heard
a

>lot of this sh!t growing up.



>oop! guess that's my bad there - if i follow your words, 'professional'

>and 'artist' are oxymorons.



>so much for all those colleges and expensive art degrees out there.



_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 16:01:26 2008
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:01:26 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <200317.25028.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200317.25028.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <487D2C46.7070004@gmail.com>

The point I was trying to make was more that Germany may not even exist 
in 600 years -- who's going to change the chords? I agree, the piece is 
a really nice idea, and as a fluxus exercise, it has a nice patina to 
start the project, but I feel like beneath that, there is an element of 
short-sightedness or wanting to emotionally/aesthetically cash in on the 
'idea' of it NOW and then forget about it later. I personally would not 
undertake a project like this unless I was able to provide reasonable 
certainty that I could complete the project. You can say "Oh but we 
can't be certain about anything" but that's really sort of a copout. We 
compose pieces with semi-certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow 
morning and somebody may be around to play it. I guess that's just my 
personality. Don't start things you can't finish. Or I think there 
should be an element of commitment to a project like that.

Pieces by Hildegaard von Bingen or anybody else are enjoyable artifacts 
that were made at a particular point in history and just happen to still 
be around. We just find these artifacts from the past and may or may not 
relate to them or find them relevant. But they were not intended for us, 
exactly, they were intended for the people of their time more or less, 
even if you believe in the "Universality of Art". I guess some musicians 
and artists have a drive toward 'immortality' and creations for future 
generations but I think the majority of artists make stuff for the 
people around them, and then it just happens to be around later for us 
to enjoy--the future generations are a secondary concern. That's 
different than kind of fascistly saying that people should continue this 
piece as written for a bazillion years exactly the way it was described 
in 1953. It doesn't seem to have a lot of room for the natural and 
organic changes in societies and human life.

I'm not able to express myself very well about this, but I am trying to 
say that with such a beautiful piece, it's highly unlikely that people 
will be able to actually carry out the project to completion and that 
seems unfortunate.

Alicia

Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:    Why not celebrate the legacy of John Cage for 600 years? 
>
> -That's what you say now, but like somebody else said, human society may 
> be totally different then and maybe it won't even be relevant. who 
> knows. It's a nice lofty idea but just fantasy. 
>    
>    
>   PG:
> I'm not so sure the idea is merely "lofty". And no, no one knows what's going to be vital 600 years from now. That's the whole point. Create something and see if it has staying power...
>    
>   Do you think Hildegaard von Bingen thought her music would still be played today? Was it arrogant or sychophantic of her to write her music? It's a simple truth that her music is still being played today and it was written more than 600 years ago.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 15 17:03:13 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <487D2C46.7070004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <780560.71747.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for writing Alicia. I think I understand you perfectly.
   
  I guess if I was trying to make a point, it would not focus on the immortality aspect of "staying power" (of the artist), but that people would actually enjoy being a part of keeping an idea alive. The idea in this case is expressed musically, and it requires that someone assist in keeping the sound going.
   
  Individuals, trends, genres and even community can change; yes - we're thankful for that.
   
  I think, and yes, I'm second-guessing Cage here, that there is a play on faith at the core of this "exercise" or work of art. The fact that this work occurs in a church has an "eternal" resonance (not one I particularly subscribe to, btw). I think the question of "will there be anyone around in 600 years who is committed to this?" is part of the artistic statement that the composer is trying to make, and by writing it he affirms his faith that sound is eternal, (or, at the very least, for a long time). 
   
  That concept seems one of the tenets of his work, if I'm not mis-reading him.
  Perhaps (one aspect of his world view, or philosophy) could be stated:
   
  all sounds are musical
  there is no silence
   
  therefore sound is inevitable
   
  (so why not shape it, which is what composers do...)
   
  And so, while I said above that I wasn't focusing on the "immortality" aspect, I meant that I wasn't focusing on the immortality of the artist, rather, the immortality of sound.
   
  If you're still reading, thanks for putting up with my hair-brain schemes.
   
  Cheers,
  PG
   
   

  
Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
  The point I was trying to make was more that Germany may not even exist 
in 600 years -- who's going to change the chords? I agree, the piece is 
a really nice idea, and as a fluxus exercise, it has a nice patina to 
start the project, but I feel like beneath that, there is an element of 
short-sightedness or wanting to emotionally/aesthetically cash in on the 
'idea' of it NOW and then forget about it later. I personally would not 
undertake a project like this unless I was able to provide reasonable 
certainty that I could complete the project. You can say "Oh but we 
can't be certain about anything" but that's really sort of a copout. We 
compose pieces with semi-certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow 
morning and somebody may be around to play it. I guess that's just my 
personality. Don't start things you can't finish. Or I think there 
should be an element of commitment to a project like that.

Pieces by Hildegaard von Bingen or anybody else are enjoyable artifacts 
that were made at a particular point in history and just happen to still 
be around. We just find these artifacts from the past and may or may not 
relate to them or find them relevant. But they were not intended for us, 
exactly, they were intended for the people of their time more or less, 
even if you believe in the "Universality of Art". I guess some musicians 
and artists have a drive toward 'immortality' and creations for future 
generations but I think the majority of artists make stuff for the 
people around them, and then it just happens to be around later for us 
to enjoy--the future generations are a secondary concern. That's 
different than kind of fascistly saying that people should continue this 
piece as written for a bazillion years exactly the way it was described 
in 1953. It doesn't seem to have a lot of room for the natural and 
organic changes in societies and human life.

I'm not able to express myself very well about this, but I am trying to 
say that with such a beautiful piece, it's highly unlikely that people 
will be able to actually carry out the project to completion and that 
seems unfortunate.

Alicia

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 17:34:05 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:34:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 1 bedroom apt in my building
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807151734q7a1ba0bdq9b25d504b583f825@mail.gmail.com>

Hey peeps,

A 1 bedroom apartment has opened up in my building. I'm secretly
trying to fill the building with newmusic types. So far Polly Moller
and I live in different apartments here.

http://www.laphamcompany.com/ad%20texts/2P-4%20265%20Vernon%20-%201a%20ad%20text.htm

Rent: $975
--Allows cats
--7 minute walk to 21 Grand
--2 minute walk to Whole Foods
--15 minute walk to 19th St. Bart
--approximately 3 blocks from Lake Merritt/Grand Ave
--15 minute walk to Piedmont Ave
--has a pool & 4 laundry machines
--building has new "art deco" styling
--$65/mo extra for parking (Polly and I both get along fine without owning cars)
--if it's the unit I'm thinking of, it's a 3rd floor unit with an
inward-facing balcony, and northward facing windows.

Matt

From svetsvetlana at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 18:04:38 2008
From: svetsvetlana at yahoo.com (svetlana voronina)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:04:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Fw: Mills Music Darkbot Archive wmbr 88.1 fm cambridge
Message-ID: <606404.93435.qm@web36603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hi, i just signed up for this email list and am now forwarding an email i sent to mills people last week. . . . if the attachment does not work, you can go to wmbr.org and look for the july 12th episode of Culture Shock in the archive section.   

attention:
here is the archive for Darkbot Radio July 12 at midnight
to 2 am on wmbr 88.1 fm cambridge.  it was fantastic. 
Darkbot begins about 14 minutes into the stream.  I played
the music of Joe Straub, Cole D. Ingraham, The Number 46,
Pykrete, Chad McKinney, Chuck and Philip, Elizabeth Taylor
and Richard Burton, Cat on a Wire, and Brian B. James. 
thanks everybody!  radio is the best.    
beulah baker also known as elizabeth taylor also known as
lana


      

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 15 20:09:36 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:09:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] just in case
Message-ID: <606764.83806.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

you were lookinf for some ringtones - http://www.nexsound.org/ringtones.html

mine is set for a "cageian" OFF.


      

From bradysharp at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 20:54:16 2008
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:54:16 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] just in case
In-Reply-To: <606764.83806.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <606764.83806.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7177e350807152054u463f9f7t3b418459ef91274f@mail.gmail.com>

My ringtone is set to last 639 years... ;^)

Brady

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 8:09 PM, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:

> you were lookinf for some ringtones -
> http://www.nexsound.org/ringtones.html
>
> mine is set for a "cageian" OFF.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From td at pixar.com  Tue Jul 15 21:46:07 2008
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <487D2C46.7070004@gmail.com>
References: <200317.25028.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<487D2C46.7070004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0807152112320.13389@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Alicia Byer wrote:

> I personally would not undertake a project like this unless I was able
> to provide reasonable certainty that I could complete the project.

Can you elaborate?  How far do you go with that?  How can you make any
(personal or artistic or technical or societal) progress without attacking
uncertain goals?  How do you feel about improvisation, a process that 
never (except in its most bleached forms) has any certain outcome?

I have many projects that I am unsure of completing.  My whole life is
organized around enterprises with uncertain outcomes -- that's what they
pay me for at work; that's how I embark on every musical performance.  A
week ago I started cutting apart a new electric guitar with a coping saw,
having not much confidence of any result beyond some sawdust and a foolish
credit card charge.  But today I have a new, exciting musical instrument
and another project to learn how to play it that, again, I have no
assurance will come to a satisfactory end.

Imagine you're the one waking up in Halberstadt one morning in September,
2640 and heading down to St Burchardi to hear the end of the last note of
ASLSP and reflecting on the 30 or so generations of organists that kept a
venerable performance tradition alive so that you could witness its
culmination.  What would your attitude be towards the people that started 
the project?

For the people undertaking this project, the adventure has to be in the
journey, not the destination, their focus on the process, not the outcome,
their minds on the discipline, not the revelation.

-- 
Tom Duff.  Happy new ears.

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 22:05:15 2008
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:05:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Sixth Chord
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0807152112320.13389@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
References: <200317.25028.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<487D2C46.7070004@gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0807152112320.13389@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
Message-ID: <487D818B.5070301@gmail.com>

That's why I qualified this and said that in general, we operate on 
differing levels of certainty (i.e. believing that the sun will come up 
tomorrow). Many or most aspects of our lives are conducted according to 
probabilities not certainties, as you said. One of the reasons that I 
like improvisation is the play between different probabilities. I have 
relative certainty that I won't forget how to play the clarinet in the 
middle of a set, or won't spontaneously combust, and those are 
reasonable assumptions. So, there is a certain level of certainty that I 
will be able to produce SOMETHING while improvising. Many or most other 
factors are completely unpredictable, however.

Anyway, I guess this piece does not really detract from anything in 
particular, and isn't really any different than architecture that's 
around for 600 years except for the logistics. I don't know why the 
logistics make me so nervous, I guess it's just instinct. I want to 
protect the piece.

Alicia

Tom Duff wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, Alicia Byer wrote:
>
>   
>> I personally would not undertake a project like this unless I was able
>> to provide reasonable certainty that I could complete the project.
>>     
>
> Can you elaborate?  How far do you go with that?  How can you make any
> (personal or artistic or technical or societal) progress without attacking
> uncertain goals?  How do you feel about improvisation, a process that 
> never (except in its most bleached forms) has any certain outcome?
>
> I have many projects that I am unsure of completing.  My whole life is
> organized around enterprises with uncertain outcomes -- that's what they
> pay me for at work; that's how I embark on every musical performance.  A
> week ago I started cutting apart a new electric guitar with a coping saw,
> having not much confidence of any result beyond some sawdust and a foolish
> credit card charge.  But today I have a new, exciting musical instrument
> and another project to learn how to play it that, again, I have no
> assurance will come to a satisfactory end.
>
> Imagine you're the one waking up in Halberstadt one morning in September,
> 2640 and heading down to St Burchardi to hear the end of the last note of
> ASLSP and reflecting on the 30 or so generations of organists that kept a
> venerable performance tradition alive so that you could witness its
> culmination.  What would your attitude be towards the people that started 
> the project?
>
> For the people undertaking this project, the adventure has to be in the
> journey, not the destination, their focus on the process, not the outcome,
> their minds on the discipline, not the revelation.
>
>   


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jul 15 23:42:42 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] paid performance opportunity this week (respond quickly)
In-Reply-To: <487D2C46.7070004@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <157539.14381.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey bListers,  #message1391024814323726419231198038189128863589638814 { overflow:auto; visibility:hidden }       YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = []; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.lang = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = ""; YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { "lw_1216190449_0": { "text": "Siva Baba", "extended": 0, "startchar": 312, "endchar": 320, "start": 312, "end": 320, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1.82624, "type": ["shortcuts:/concept"], "category": ["CONCEPT"], "context": "she hired bailed. It\x27s a spiritual workshop with Guru Dattatreya Siva Baba,
 which was covered in the Chronicle on Monday.     I said", "metaData": { "visible": "true" }  }, "lw_1216190449_1": { "text": "Chronicle", "extended": 0, "startchar": 509, "endchar": 517, "start": 509, "end": 517, "extendedFrom": "", "predictedCategory": "", "predictionProbability": "0", "weight": 1, "type": ["shortcuts:/us/instance/identifier/hyperlink/http"], "category": ["IDENTIFIER"], "context": "with Guru Dattatreya Siva Baba, which was covered in the Chronicle on Monday.     I said I could ask around. So, I\x27m", "metaData": { "linkHref": "http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/07/14/findrelig.DTL&hw=Dattatreya&sn=001&sc=1000", "linkProtocol": "http", "linkRel": "nofollow", "linkTarget": "_blank", "visible": "true" }  } };  YAHOO.Shortcuts.overlaySpaceId = "97546169";  YAHOO.Shortcuts.hostSpaceId = "97546168";     Not sure if anyone on this list can help, but I thought I would post this gig opportunity.
  If you can do the gig, email Jamie Moore at jm at beatnikbeats.com
   
  Cheers,
  PG
   
  Hi there musical friend,   

  Apologies for the mass email. A friend of mine is an organizer for an event this Thursday, 7/17, at Grace Cathedral, and the Kirtan group she hired bailed. It's a spiritual workshop with Guru Dattatreya Siva Baba, which was covered in the Chronicle on Monday.
  

  I said I could ask around. So, I'm looking for an Indian instrumental duo or trio who can set up & sound check between 4 and 5pm, be scarce from 5 to 6pm, play from 6 to 7pm and either walk off and out with everything or stay for the event, which is over at 9:30pm.
  

  Pay is $300 for the group. Anyone able to connect me to the right folks?
  

  Thanks,
  
      Jamie
  







From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Wed Jul 16 10:05:56 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:05:56 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Cage's Six/Nine chord
Message-ID: <C4A37884.1506D%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

Alicia wrote:
<<I guess it's just instinct. I want to protect the piece.>>

I keep wondering: what if someone a century or so in the future isn't paying
close attention and puts a weight down on the wrong note for, say, several
months. Do we start over, or just play through the mistake, as anyone else
would onstage?

Which reminds me: I have this lovely Zappa live recording (YCDTOSA) of Frank
restarting "Montana" a couple of times because the percussion section
couldn't play it at the highly accelerated tempo that the highly caffeinated
leader was counting off. So he counted it off at a quarter of the tempo...


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 10:10:23 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:10:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Horace Tapscott on Night Lights
In-Reply-To: <C4A37884.1506D%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <498344.43391.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear bListers,
   
  DJ David Johnson did a show on Horace Tapscott and is re-airing it this week. You can listen to it on the link below....here's a note from David:
   
   
    Last year I did a Night Lights show about Los Angeles pianist Horace
 Tapscott that included an interview with Steve Isoardi, who helped
 Horace write his autobiography and who also recently published THE DARK
 TREE, a book about Horace and the underground L.A. jazz community.  We're
 re-airing it this week, and it's also posted for online listening:

http://nightlights.blogs.wfiu.org/one-more-you-wrote-through-us-horace-tapscott-2/


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 16 10:18:13 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:18:13 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
Message-ID: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>

I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or if we're "still
closed." No, we are not closed ... yet

The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with updating people
on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the bureaucratic issues (and
there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different, yet some
overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other challenge is that
things are still up in the air.

After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the authorities for
several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks ago. It was the
same story as 7 months ago - we need the building department and fire
department to agree that our building is "safe" enough to have events. Not
just one event, but regular events. This was the real challenge. After many
hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the fire department
and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or so shows we had
scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49 people in the
building. 

What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want us to show progress
towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these things will be
expensive. One of these things, that they just determined we would need to
do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some upgrading of the
building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be expensive, this
might be not-too-expensive.

However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves. We would need
the building owner to pay for some of it. The building owner could say no.
If the building owner says no to paying for some of the upgrades, then 21
Grand would either a)move again or b)close.

Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and Darren and our board
of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know what people think. We
want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff here, or email me
at 21grand at 21grand dot org.

We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if that makes it
easier to respond/organize your thoughts.

Thanks for reading.
sl



From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 10:30:01 2008
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:30:01 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0807161030i39ad0160w15865a74bc0f2f9e@mail.gmail.com>

ugh, so frustrating. wonder if anyone has a good plumber or IS a good
plumber that can donate their services. i am sure it could be a tax write
off or something.



On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
wrote:

> I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or if we're "still
> closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
>
> The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with updating people
> on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the bureaucratic issues
> (and
> there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different, yet some
> overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other challenge is that
> things are still up in the air.
>
> After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the authorities for
> several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks ago. It was the
> same story as 7 months ago - we need the building department and fire
> department to agree that our building is "safe" enough to have events. Not
> just one event, but regular events. This was the real challenge. After many
> hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the fire department
> and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or so shows we had
> scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49 people in the
> building.
>
> What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want us to show progress
> towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these things will be
> expensive. One of these things, that they just determined we would need to
> do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some upgrading of the
> building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be expensive, this
> might be not-too-expensive.
>
> However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves. We would need
> the building owner to pay for some of it. The building owner could say no.
> If the building owner says no to paying for some of the upgrades, then 21
> Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
>
> Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and Darren and our board
> of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know what people think. We
> want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff here, or email
> me
> at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
>
> We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if that makes it
> easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
>
> Thanks for reading.
> sl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 10:48:50 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:48:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <967946.78695.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Sarah and Darren,
   
  I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also make a small donation in September...money has been ridiculously tight this year.
   
  If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or give me a call. I have more free time during the summer (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am available to help in any way you think I might be helpful. I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be willing to do some work for a low price since you are such a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
   
  Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
   
  Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is destined to pop up again....?
   
  Much love and respect,
  Phillip
   
  

Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
  I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or if we're "still
closed." No, we are not closed ... yet

The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with updating people
on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the bureaucratic issues (and
there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different, yet some
overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other challenge is that
things are still up in the air.

After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the authorities for
several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks ago. It was the
same story as 7 months ago - we need the building department and fire
department to agree that our building is "safe" enough to have events. Not
just one event, but regular events. This was the real challenge. After many
hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the fire department
and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or so shows we had
scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49 people in the
building. 

What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want us to show progress
towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these things will be
expensive. One of these things, that they just determined we would need to
do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some upgrading of the
building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be expensive, this
might be not-too-expensive.

However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves. We would need
the building owner to pay for some of it. The building owner could say no.
If the building owner says no to paying for some of the upgrades, then 21
Grand would either a)move again or b)close.

Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and Darren and our board
of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know what people think. We
want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff here, or email me
at 21grand at 21grand dot org.

We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if that makes it
easier to respond/organize your thoughts.

Thanks for reading.
sl


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 11:08:51 2008
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <967946.78695.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <190289.67572.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!

Even if you have to move locations....

Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal.  If you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I guess I shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on this list are willing to help out in some way).

However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the upgrades then maybe moving is the best option.  I have a principled objection to renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent for that stuff?!!?)

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44


--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:

> From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> Dear Sarah and Darren,
>    
>   I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> make a small donation in September...money has been
> ridiculously tight this year.
>    
>   If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
>    
>   Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
>    
>   Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> destined to pop up again....?
>    
>   Much love and respect,
>   Phillip
>    
>   
> 
> Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
>   I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> or if we're "still
> closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> 
> The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> updating people
> on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> bureaucratic issues (and
> there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> yet some
> overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> challenge is that
> things are still up in the air.
> 
> After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> authorities for
> several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> ago. It was the
> same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> department and fire
> department to agree that our building is "safe"
> enough to have events. Not
> just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> challenge. After many
> hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> fire department
> and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> so shows we had
> scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> people in the
> building. 
> 
> What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> us to show progress
> towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> things will be
> expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> we would need to
> do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> upgrading of the
> building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> expensive, this
> might be not-too-expensive.
> 
> However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> We would need
> the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> owner could say no.
> If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> upgrades, then 21
> Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> 
> Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> Darren and our board
> of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> what people think. We
> want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> here, or email me
> at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> 
> We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> that makes it
> easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> 
> Thanks for reading.
> sl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


      

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 11:15:02 2008
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:15:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <190289.67572.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <967946.78695.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<190289.67572.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0807161115q62ade937s512b8013f121f91c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
definitely help.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay <jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
>
> Even if you have to move locations....
>
> Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal.  If
> you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I guess I
> shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on this
> list are willing to help out in some way).
>
> However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the upgrades
> then maybe moving is the best option.  I have a principled objection to
> renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent for
> that stuff?!!?)
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
> > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> >
> >   I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > ridiculously tight this year.
> >
> >   If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> >
> >   Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> >
> >   Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > destined to pop up again....?
> >
> >   Much love and respect,
> >   Phillip
> >
> >
> >
> > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> >   I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > or if we're "still
> > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> >
> > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > updating people
> > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > bureaucratic issues (and
> > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > yet some
> > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > challenge is that
> > things are still up in the air.
> >
> > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > authorities for
> > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > ago. It was the
> > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > department and fire
> > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > enough to have events. Not
> > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > challenge. After many
> > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > fire department
> > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > so shows we had
> > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > people in the
> > building.
> >
> > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > us to show progress
> > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > things will be
> > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > we would need to
> > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > upgrading of the
> > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > expensive, this
> > might be not-too-expensive.
> >
> > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > We would need
> > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > owner could say no.
> > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > upgrades, then 21
> > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> >
> > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > Darren and our board
> > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > what people think. We
> > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > here, or email me
> > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> >
> > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > that makes it
> > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> >
> > Thanks for reading.
> > sl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 11:22:17 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0807161115q62ade937s512b8013f121f91c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <720645.68671.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Kristin!
   
  Phillip.....not Phil

  And, please don't count on me for electronics....plumbing I can do - that wiring shit is for someone with other forms of intelligence...
   
  Peace!
PG
   
  
kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
  I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
definitely help.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay 
wrote:

> Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
>
> Even if you have to move locations....
>
> Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal. If
> you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I guess I
> shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on this
> list are willing to help out in some way).
>
> However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the upgrades
> then maybe moving is the best option. I have a principled objection to
> renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent for
> that stuff?!!?)
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief 
wrote:
>
> > From: Phillip Greenlief 

> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
> > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" 
> > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> >
> > I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > ridiculously tight this year.
> >
> > If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> >
> > Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> >
> > Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > destined to pop up again....?
> >
> > Much love and respect,
> > Phillip
> >
> >
> >
> > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > or if we're "still
> > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> >
> > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > updating people
> > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > bureaucratic issues (and
> > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > yet some
> > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > challenge is that
> > things are still up in the air.
> >
> > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > authorities for
> > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > ago. It was the
> > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > department and fire
> > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > enough to have events. Not
> > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > challenge. After many
> > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > fire department
> > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > so shows we had
> > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > people in the
> > building.
> >
> > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > us to show progress
> > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > things will be
> > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > we would need to
> > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > upgrading of the
> > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > expensive, this
> > might be not-too-expensive.
> >
> > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > We would need
> > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > owner could say no.
> > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > upgrades, then 21
> > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> >
> > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > Darren and our board
> > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > what people think. We
> > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > here, or email me
> > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> >
> > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > that makes it
> > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> >
> > Thanks for reading.
> > sl
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 11:23:43 2008
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:23:43 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <720645.68671.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <ef1ad92c0807161115q62ade937s512b8013f121f91c@mail.gmail.com>
	<720645.68671.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0807161123k3791e9b9p7f838ae59f9e41e3@mail.gmail.com>

SORRY Phillip.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
wrote:

> Kristin!
>
>  Phillip.....not Phil
>
>  And, please don't count on me for electronics....plumbing I can do - that
> wiring shit is for someone with other forms of intelligence...
>
>  Peace!
> PG
>
>
> kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
> definitely help.
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay
> wrote:
>
> > Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
> >
> > Even if you have to move locations....
> >
> > Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal. If
> > you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I guess
> I
> > shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on
> this
> > list are willing to help out in some way).
> >
> > However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the
> upgrades
> > then maybe moving is the best option. I have a principled objection to
> > renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent for
> > that stuff?!!?)
> >
> > Jacob Lindsay
> > http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Phillip Greenlief
>
> > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed
> ...yet
> > > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> > >
> > > I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > > ridiculously tight this year.
> > >
> > > If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> > >
> > > Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> > >
> > > Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > > destined to pop up again....?
> > >
> > > Much love and respect,
> > > Phillip
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > > I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > > or if we're "still
> > > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> > >
> > > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > > updating people
> > > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > > bureaucratic issues (and
> > > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > > yet some
> > > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > > challenge is that
> > > things are still up in the air.
> > >
> > > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > > authorities for
> > > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > > ago. It was the
> > > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > > department and fire
> > > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > > enough to have events. Not
> > > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > > challenge. After many
> > > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > > fire department
> > > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > > so shows we had
> > > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > > people in the
> > > building.
> > >
> > > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > > us to show progress
> > > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > > things will be
> > > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > > we would need to
> > > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > > upgrading of the
> > > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > > expensive, this
> > > might be not-too-expensive.
> > >
> > > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > > We would need
> > > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > > owner could say no.
> > > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > > upgrades, then 21
> > > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> > >
> > > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > > Darren and our board
> > > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > > what people think. We
> > > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > > here, or email me
> > > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> > >
> > > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > > that makes it
> > > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> > >
> > > Thanks for reading.
> > > sl
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
>
> --
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 11:25:20 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0807161123k3791e9b9p7f838ae59f9e41e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8514.57181.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

<3 <3 <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  PG

   
  
kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
  SORRY Phillip.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Phillip Greenlief 

wrote:

> Kristin!
>
> Phillip.....not Phil
>
> And, please don't count on me for electronics....plumbing I can do - that
> wiring shit is for someone with other forms of intelligence...
>
> Peace!
> PG
>
>
> kristin miltner wrote:
> I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
> definitely help.
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay
> wrote:
>
> > Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
> >
> > Even if you have to move locations....
> >
> > Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal. If
> > you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I guess
> I
> > shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on
> this
> > list are willing to help out in some way).
> >
> > However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the
> upgrades
> > then maybe moving is the best option. I have a principled objection to
> > renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent for
> > that stuff?!!?)
> >
> > Jacob Lindsay
> > http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Phillip Greenlief
>
> > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed
> ...yet
> > > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> > >
> > > I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > > ridiculously tight this year.
> > >
> > > If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> > >
> > > Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> > >
> > > Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > > destined to pop up again....?
> > >
> > > Much love and respect,
> > > Phillip
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > > I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > > or if we're "still
> > > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> > >
> > > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > > updating people
> > > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > > bureaucratic issues (and
> > > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > > yet some
> > > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > > challenge is that
> > > things are still up in the air.
> > >
> > > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > > authorities for
> > > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > > ago. It was the
> > > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > > department and fire
> > > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > > enough to have events. Not
> > > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > > challenge. After many
> > > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > > fire department
> > > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > > so shows we had
> > > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > > people in the
> > > building.
> > >
> > > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > > us to show progress
> > > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > > things will be
> > > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > > we would need to
> > > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > > upgrading of the
> > > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > > expensive, this
> > > might be not-too-expensive.
> > >
> > > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > > We would need
> > > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > > owner could say no.
> > > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > > upgrades, then 21
> > > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> > >
> > > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > > Darren and our board
> > > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > > what people think. We
> > > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > > here, or email me
> > > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> > >
> > > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > > that makes it
> > > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> > >
> > > Thanks for reading.
> > > sl
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
>
> --
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 11:33:05 2008
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:33:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <8514.57181.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <ef1ad92c0807161123k3791e9b9p7f838ae59f9e41e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<8514.57181.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0807161133j7fc53305i51cf4acf077c84fc@mail.gmail.com>

you get 1 free punch in the arm next time i see you.

which leads me to mention the problem of unleashing a bunch of weird music
people on 21 Grand's plumbing and electric, when the point is to get it up
to pretty demanding standards... and i can't even get Phillip's name right.
:)

k

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
wrote:

> <3 <3 <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>  PG
>
>
>
> kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
>   SORRY Phillip.
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Phillip Greenlief
>
> wrote:
>
> > Kristin!
> >
> > Phillip.....not Phil
> >
> > And, please don't count on me for electronics....plumbing I can do - that
> > wiring shit is for someone with other forms of intelligence...
> >
> > Peace!
> > PG
> >
> >
> > kristin miltner wrote:
> > I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
> > definitely help.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
> > >
> > > Even if you have to move locations....
> > >
> > > Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal. If
> > > you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I
> guess
> > I
> > > shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on
> > this
> > > list are willing to help out in some way).
> > >
> > > However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the
> > upgrades
> > > then maybe moving is the best option. I have a principled objection to
> > > renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent
> for
> > > that stuff?!!?)
> > >
> > > Jacob Lindsay
> > > http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Phillip Greenlief
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed
> > ...yet
> > > > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > > > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> > > >
> > > > I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > > > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > > > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > > > ridiculously tight this year.
> > > >
> > > > If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > > > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > > > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > > > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > > > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > > > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > > > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > > > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > > > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > > > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> > > >
> > > > Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > > > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > > > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > > > destined to pop up again....?
> > > >
> > > > Much love and respect,
> > > > Phillip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > > > I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > > > or if we're "still
> > > > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> > > >
> > > > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > > > updating people
> > > > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > > > bureaucratic issues (and
> > > > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > > > yet some
> > > > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > > > challenge is that
> > > > things are still up in the air.
> > > >
> > > > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > > > authorities for
> > > > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > > > ago. It was the
> > > > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > > > department and fire
> > > > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > > > enough to have events. Not
> > > > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > > > challenge. After many
> > > > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > > > fire department
> > > > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > > > so shows we had
> > > > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > > > people in the
> > > > building.
> > > >
> > > > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > > > us to show progress
> > > > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > > > things will be
> > > > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > > > we would need to
> > > > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > > > upgrading of the
> > > > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > > > expensive, this
> > > > might be not-too-expensive.
> > > >
> > > > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > > > We would need
> > > > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > > > owner could say no.
> > > > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > > > upgrades, then 21
> > > > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > > > Darren and our board
> > > > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > > > what people think. We
> > > > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > > > here, or email me
> > > > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> > > >
> > > > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > > > that makes it
> > > > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reading.
> > > > sl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > kristin miltner
> > audio professional
> > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
>
> --
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 12:05:11 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <714010.10418.qm@web51608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Stay open. Angie and I are willing to donate any time/energy you need. My back and wallet may be broken, but we can do so much more (hopefully).

cheers

lance


--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:

> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
> Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
> To: "Banewmus List" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>, "Brutal SFx List" <brutalsfx at yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:18 AM
> I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or
> if we're "still
> closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> 
> The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> updating people
> on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> bureaucratic issues (and
> there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> yet some
> overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> challenge is that
> things are still up in the air.
> 
> After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> authorities for
> several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> ago. It was the
> same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> department and fire
> department to agree that our building is "safe"
> enough to have events. Not
> just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> challenge. After many
> hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> fire department
> and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> so shows we had
> scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> people in the
> building. 
> 
> What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> us to show progress
> towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> things will be
> expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> we would need to
> do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> upgrading of the
> building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> expensive, this
> might be not-too-expensive.
> 
> However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> We would need
> the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> owner could say no.
> If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> upgrades, then 21
> Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> 
> Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> Darren and our board
> of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> what people think. We
> want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> here, or email me
> at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> 
> We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> that makes it
> easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> 
> Thanks for reading.
> sl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


      

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 13:23:21 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:23:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <714010.10418.qm@web51608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
	<714010.10418.qm@web51608.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807161323m32ff3d86r7903fdd11b4bd6e6@mail.gmail.com>

I'd hate to see the venue close, and less hate to see it move.

21 Grand is such a central part of the bay area arts & weirdmusic
scene, you'd leave a big hole in the east bay if you left.

I like the new space too, and one of the nice things about it is that
it's so central to public transit at Bart. (It also doesn't hurt that
it's so close to my house.)

I can't help but think that the city is shooting itself in the foot
with their talk about 'revitalizing' downtown Oakland, while at the
same time shutting down the resources that make people want to live
here. Would a letter-writing campaign to the mayor help, or fall on
deaf ears? Is there any hope of getting some financial grants from the
city towards bringing the space up to code?

I can try to kick in some more $

Matt

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Stay open. Angie and I are willing to donate any time/energy you need. My back and wallet may be broken, but we can do so much more (hopefully).
>
> cheers
>
> lance
>
>
> --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
>
>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
>> Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
>> To: "Banewmus List" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>, "Brutal SFx List" <brutalsfx at yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:18 AM
>> I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or
>> if we're "still
>> closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
>>
>> The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
>> updating people
>> on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
>> bureaucratic issues (and
>> there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
>> yet some
>> overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
>> challenge is that
>> things are still up in the air.
>>
>> After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
>> authorities for
>> several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
>> ago. It was the
>> same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
>> department and fire
>> department to agree that our building is "safe"
>> enough to have events. Not
>> just one event, but regular events. This was the real
>> challenge. After many
>> hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
>> fire department
>> and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
>> so shows we had
>> scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
>> people in the
>> building.
>>
>> What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
>> us to show progress
>> towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
>> things will be
>> expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
>> we would need to
>> do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
>> upgrading of the
>> building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
>> expensive, this
>> might be not-too-expensive.
>>
>> However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
>> We would need
>> the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
>> owner could say no.
>> If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
>> upgrades, then 21
>> Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
>>
>> Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
>> Darren and our board
>> of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
>> what people think. We
>> want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
>> here, or email me
>> at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
>>
>> We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
>> that makes it
>> easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
>>
>> Thanks for reading.
>> sl
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 16 13:26:48 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:26:48 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] "open jam" on thursday
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0807131311l7b4cab32p9330c985d53e73e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0807131311l7b4cab32p9330c985d53e73e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807161326r658aef2dp8e631d0562de2497@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone?

So far we have 1.5 performers. If you're interested in participating,
please let me know!

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For the first set this thursday at luggage store, we're having an
> "open jam". So, if you're interested in participating, please let me
> know. The set will run from about 8pm to 9pm.
>
> All instruments/experience levels welcome, but must be some sort of
> experimental/avant-garde music. RSVPing with me is appreciated (and
> I'll get your name on the event listing), but not mandatory.
>
> We have a PA, but for this sort of thing if bringing an amp is
> convenient, it usually makes for better sound.
>
> Matt
>

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 16 13:37:32 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:37:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
Message-ID: <C4A3AA1C.25DA2%21grand@21grand.org>

Matt wrote:
Would a letter-writing campaign to the mayor help, or fall on
deaf ears? Is there any hope of getting some financial grants from the
city towards bringing the space up to code?


- A letter writing campaign could work ... We'd have to know more specifics
before implementing one, I think, so we could have more focused "talking" er
writing points.

- The City's Redevelopment agency has a program (that we would qualify for)
where they would match expenses dollar for dollar up to $25,000 (that would
be a grand total of $50,000 spent). We are hoping that a) the total cost of
building renovation would not be more than $50,000 and b) that our landlord
could be persuaded to pay for sprinklers and seismic upgrades on the basis
that he'd get "more for his money" and that these things would also reduce
his insurance. 

sl



From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 13:41:04 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:41:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0807161323m32ff3d86r7903fdd11b4bd6e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <881598.62591.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> 21 Grand is such a central part of the bay area arts &
> weirdmusic
> scene, you'd leave a big hole in the east bay if you
> left.

excuse me? whole in the BAY AREA you mean...
 
> I like the new space too, and one of the nice things about
> it is that
> it's so central to public transit at Bart. (It also
> doesn't hurt that
> it's so close to my house.)

as it always has been. in fact, it has slowly gotten less convenient BART-wise...
 
> I can't help but think that the city is shooting itself
> in the foot
> with their talk about 'revitalizing' downtown
> Oakland, while at the
> same time shutting down the resources that make people want
> to live
> here. 

It's becaause they spell 'revitalizing' with lots of dollar signs. community is not their interst  (despite any rhetoric to the contrary), just cash. or actually, to put it in a much nicer way, they believe that money creates community and 'revitalizes,' which is a philosophy with only limited potential for truth. so, their idea of revitalizing is to bulldoze communities to put up condos, a few overpriced supermarkets and starbucks and wait for the tax revenues to roll in....

etc., etc., etc.

and to be fair, no one person here is trying to blow-up 21grand (which would actually make it easier to fight). there are a lot of competing interests and laws in the mix which make it nearly impossible for small, simple businesses to survive (almost anywhere in the U.S.). Watching messes like this makes my socialist heart turn libertarian.

off the soapbox to see how much lunch will cost today. $5? $10? $20? stay tuned!

lance


      

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 13:43:09 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:43:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A3AA1C.25DA2%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <429876.59291.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> be a grand total of $50,000 spent). We are hoping that a)
> the total cost of
> building renovation would not be more than $50,000 and b)
> that our landlord
> could be persuaded to pay for sprinklers and seismic
> upgrades on the basis
> that he'd get "more for his money" and that
> these things would also reduce
> his insurance. 

and would someone like to tell me why the laws weren't written to make all of this a requirements of the landlord's? perhaps before he could rent to anyone?

ugh.


      

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 16 13:56:05 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:56:05 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
Message-ID: <C4A3AE75.25DA6%21grand@21grand.org>

Lance wrote:
there are a lot of competing interests and laws in the mix which make it
nearly impossible for small, simple businesses to survive (almost anywhere
in the U.S.). Watching messes like this makes my socialist heart turn
libertarian.

-- I think this is also part of the "why it really sucks right now to earn
money as a musician" ... Operating a small to mid-sized venue is expensive.
These costs get passed along to musicians - whether directly like
pay-to-play venues or increased venue guarantees or indirectly with venues
focusing on acts with "more draw" or booking more DJ nights that are cheaper
to do (venue does not have to pay the dude of questionable competence to
spend at least one hour arguing with musicians about mic placement, etc.).

And before that Lance wrote:
their idea of revitalizing is to bulldoze communities to put up condos, a
few overpriced supermarkets and starbucks and wait for the tax revenues to
roll in....

-- I'm sorely tempted to do shows in the upper parking lot of the new
overpriced supermarket two doors down from my apartment.

sl



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 16 14:04:09 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:04:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
Message-ID: <C4A3B059.25DA9%21grand@21grand.org>

Lance asked:
would someone like to tell me why the laws weren't written to make all of
this a requirements of the landlord's? perhaps before he could rent to
anyone?


-- the thing is, these things are required because we have turned an auto
garage into a performance venue, triggering building dept requirements for
"change of use" - the sprinklers and the seismic work are a result of this.
The other things - the ADA entrance, the entrance onto the street, the 2nd
bathroom - are a result of having a performance venue that has a capacity of
89 seated/192 standing (we finally got that one determined). If we left and
he got another auto repair tenant, he wouldn't have to do this.

Our lease says that he is not required to pay for renovations to the
building that are a result of the specific needs of our business. Our lease
(which ends in March 2010) also says that we can leave with no penalty if
there are required renovations like this if these things come up in the last
two years of our lease.

I don't know the entire deal with the Black Box's problems back in the day,
but I got the impression that they did not have such a clause in their
lease, and that they might have had to pay for leaving early. I do remember
them needing $150,000. But I never found out what the breakdown was for that
amount -- whether that was all code compliance stuff. I'm pretty sure that
their needs did include seismic work and sprinklers.

sl



From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 14:04:11 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A3AE75.25DA6%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <192593.95734.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


> money as a musician" ... Operating a small to
> mid-sized venue is expensive.

Unfortunately, this goes beyond musicians and venues. You could say "operating a small to mid-sized" and insert any business of your choice there when talking about the difficulty.

Problem is, the way things are currently structured, a small business is actually a peet's or a tully's (in the coffee chain world) leaving no room at all (legally or financially) for mom-and-pop's or grassroots businesses. this means, essentially, nothing can happen at the actual "community" level - culturally, financially, fiscally, legally, etc. Everything is, in a way, OVERdetermined.

lance


      

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 14:26:37 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A3B059.25DA9%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <70490.9125.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



> -- the thing is, these things are required because we have
> turned an auto
> garage into a performance venue, triggering building dept
> requirements for
> "change of use" - 

I'll cede the sprinkler system, etc., but the seismic work would be the landlord's responsibility.

and no sprinkler requirements for a garage? that still doesn't sit right with me. in fact, i think i will have to putt hat one back in play.

the other requirements make some sense, but if you were a "legitimate" business (like, say for instance, a lawfirm in the financial district) most renovations Nada "build-out' costs would be looked at up front and it's customary for the landlord to agree to pay those up to a certain amount (or within reason).

And I still feel like my right to assemble 192 people in your space is impinged upon! where's my constitutional lawyer?!






      

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 14:34:52 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A3B059.25DA9%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <907538.18993.qm@web51604.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> "change of use" 

and i won't even begin to wax on how ridiculous this legal concept is and how what little sense it made has been eroded by the way it is put to use by planning departments (and others) across the country.

libertarian-socialists unite!

(all other utterly confused are welcome)

lance


      

From analog_life at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 16 14:37:37 2008
From: analog_life at hotmail.com (stephen r.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:37:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <70490.9125.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <C4A3B059.25DA9%21grand@21grand.org>
	<70490.9125.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU142-W1A45DD979882C22FA4E099C8F0@phx.gbl>


Now who do we know who works in a law firm......? 

Seriously, a concentrated PR (yes, shutter and shake your experimental fists at the term) blitz to radio, TV, internet outlets (blogs, podcasts, etc), AND letter writing campaigning combined could really reverse this. Also, I'm sure there is some attorney that would work pro bono on something like this.

Just my 2 cents from Texas (but soon to be Los Angeles).

-- 
Stephen R. :: Pixel Pusher / Sound Wrangler
---------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/djstephenr
http://architectheroes.blogspot.com/
http://www.myspace.com/zygote
---------------------------------------------------------------

 
> And I still feel like my right to assemble 192 people in your space is impinged upon! where's my constitutional lawyer?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 15:40:27 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:40:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0807161133j7fc53305i51cf4acf077c84fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <976911.88143.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i don't hit people...but i can install pipe and fixtures.
   
  pg

kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
  you get 1 free punch in the arm next time i see you.

which leads me to mention the problem of unleashing a bunch of weird music
people on 21 Grand's plumbing and electric, when the point is to get it up
to pretty demanding standards... and i can't even get Phillip's name right.
:)

k

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Phillip Greenlief 

wrote:

> <3 <3 <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> PG
>
>
>
> kristin miltner wrote:
> SORRY Phillip.
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Phillip Greenlief
>
> wrote:
>
> > Kristin!
> >
> > Phillip.....not Phil
> >
> > And, please don't count on me for electronics....plumbing I can do - that
> > wiring shit is for someone with other forms of intelligence...
> >
> > Peace!
> > PG
> >
> >
> > kristin miltner wrote:
> > I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
> > definitely help.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
> > >
> > > Even if you have to move locations....
> > >
> > > Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal. If
> > > you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I
> guess
> > I
> > > shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on
> > this
> > > list are willing to help out in some way).
> > >
> > > However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the
> > upgrades
> > > then maybe moving is the best option. I have a principled objection to
> > > renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent
> for
> > > that stuff?!!?)
> > >
> > > Jacob Lindsay
> > > http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Phillip Greenlief
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed
> > ...yet
> > > > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > > > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> > > >
> > > > I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > > > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > > > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > > > ridiculously tight this year.
> > > >
> > > > If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > > > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > > > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > > > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > > > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > > > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > > > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > > > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > > > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > > > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> > > >
> > > > Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > > > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > > > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > > > destined to pop up again....?
> > > >
> > > > Much love and respect,
> > > > Phillip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > > > I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > > > or if we're "still
> > > > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> > > >
> > > > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > > > updating people
> > > > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > > > bureaucratic issues (and
> > > > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > > > yet some
> > > > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > > > challenge is that
> > > > things are still up in the air.
> > > >
> > > > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > > > authorities for
> > > > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > > > ago. It was the
> > > > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > > > department and fire
> > > > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > > > enough to have events. Not
> > > > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > > > challenge. After many
> > > > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > > > fire department
> > > > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > > > so shows we had
> > > > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > > > people in the
> > > > building.
> > > >
> > > > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > > > us to show progress
> > > > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > > > things will be
> > > > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > > > we would need to
> > > > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > > > upgrading of the
> > > > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > > > expensive, this
> > > > might be not-too-expensive.
> > > >
> > > > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > > > We would need
> > > > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > > > owner could say no.
> > > > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > > > upgrades, then 21
> > > > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > > > Darren and our board
> > > > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > > > what people think. We
> > > > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > > > here, or email me
> > > > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> > > >
> > > > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > > > that makes it
> > > > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reading.
> > > > sl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > kristin miltner
> > audio professional
> > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
>
> --
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 15:57:23 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:57:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <192593.95734.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <304940.28299.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:    Problem is, the way things are currently structured, a small business is actually a peet's or a tully's (in the coffee chain world) leaving no room at all (legally or financially) for mom-and-pop's or grassroots businesses. this means, essentially, nothing can happen at the actual "community" level - culturally, financially, fiscally, legally, etc. Everything is, in a way, OVERdetermined.


  PG:
That's what the corporate powers want. It's why they're not sweating the dip in the economy. I was walking around Hayes Valley last night (after an awesome meal at Suppenkuchen - eat your heart out, Damon!), and I noticed about half of the little clothes boutiques have shut their doors.

It would be so easy to say, HA! - serves those yuppies right! But the truth is, small businesses are a good thing, they give people alternatives from corporate consumption. So I was sad to see so many little boutiques (although I wouldn't shop at them) closing. It means that the people that believed in opening a shop they dreamed of having is out of reach now.  I find that terribly sad. Again, I wouldn't buy clothes there, but most of those little boutiques feature clothes that people right here in the bay area made with their own hands...we're not talking about sweat shop merch. 

  And why is that? Because the property owners got greedy during the dot.com era and are still overcharging for the rent on these spaces...
   
   

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 16 16:52:30 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:52:30 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] ROVA review in East Bay Express
Message-ID: <C4A3D7CE.25DBF%21grand@21grand.org>

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/music/larry_ochs_rova/Content?oid=785425

""Hand" is both cerebral and heart-swelling, somewhat conceptual yet
visceral. "Wall" will be sweet music for those weaned on the Dead C, the
Flying Luttenbachers, and late-period John Coltrane. Mirror World makes for
invigorating uneasy listening ? it'll clean out your pipes."



From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Jul 16 17:20:24 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:20:24 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <429876.59291.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <429876.59291.qm@web51611.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8AD30125-EB10-42F8-8F50-F09CCEB9009E@balancepointacoustics.com>

I have stayed pretty up to date being at 21 grand so often, but, UH  
YES, I vote 21 Grand should stay around.
Spaces come and go but I have yet to see anyone be such a part of the  
community than Darren and Sarah. It would be rough if we lost them.
At the same time, they have done plenty so asking for more should  
come with a willingness to give some.
We need to remember they are both creative artists and need time for  
their own work as well as the space.
Regardless of what they decide I remain thankful for what they both  
have done.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From aldentel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 16 18:18:12 2008
From: aldentel at sbcglobal.net (Ann Dentel)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:18:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <976911.88143.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <57745.37629.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I know this is perhaps a ridiculous long shot, but has anyone thought about looking into some sort of arts grant from the city of Oakland to help pay for the work?  If there's anyone on the list that's written a grant or two, I'm sure that you could have a pretty strong argument in regard to contributing to the cultural landscape of Oakland?  It just seems like there should be some $$ somewhere to help arts organizations deal with this sort of issue...

Ann

Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote: i don't hit people...but i can install pipe and fixtures.
   
  pg

kristin miltner  wrote:
  you get 1 free punch in the arm next time i see you.

which leads me to mention the problem of unleashing a bunch of weird music
people on 21 Grand's plumbing and electric, when the point is to get it up
to pretty demanding standards... and i can't even get Phillip's name right.
:)

k

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Phillip Greenlief 

wrote:

> <3 <3 <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> PG
>
>
>
> kristin miltner wrote:
> SORRY Phillip.
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Phillip Greenlief
>
> wrote:
>
> > Kristin!
> >
> > Phillip.....not Phil
> >
> > And, please don't count on me for electronics....plumbing I can do - that
> > wiring shit is for someone with other forms of intelligence...
> >
> > Peace!
> > PG
> >
> >
> > kristin miltner wrote:
> > I'm probably not as skilled at plumbing and lights as Phil, but i could
> > definitely help.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jacob Lindsay
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Stay Open Stay Open Stay Open!
> > >
> > > Even if you have to move locations....
> > >
> > > Obviously, if we can get the current place "fixed up" that is ideal. If
> > > you need donations of money/time, just let us know what you need (I
> guess
> > I
> > > shouldn't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure that many of us on
> > this
> > > list are willing to help out in some way).
> > >
> > > However, if the building owner refuses to pay his/her part for the
> > upgrades
> > > then maybe moving is the best option. I have a principled objection to
> > > renters paying to improve their landlords property (don't we pay rent
> for
> > > that stuff?!!?)
> > >
> > > Jacob Lindsay
> > > http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Phillip Greenlief
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Phillip Greenlief
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed
> > ...yet
> > > > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 10:48 AM
> > > > Dear Sarah and Darren,
> > > >
> > > > I'm so behind you. If I can help doing any of the
> > > > actual work, I would be happy to lend a hand. I can also
> > > > make a small donation in September...money has been
> > > > ridiculously tight this year.
> > > >
> > > > If there is any thing I can do, please drop a line or
> > > > give me a call. I have more free time during the summer
> > > > (when I'm not teaching at three schools) and am
> > > > available to help in any way you think I might be helpful.
> > > > I've done plumbing work, and can install pipe, hook up
> > > > fixtures and stuff like that. I'm terrible at electric
> > > > stuff...but know a pretty handy electrician who might be
> > > > willing to do some work for a low price since you are such
> > > > a great service to the community. (Cremaschi is handy with
> > > > this stuff, but he's out of town...damn!).
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know if there's anything I can do....
> > > >
> > > > Would it be easier to think about a new location? I LOVE
> > > > the space you're in, but perhaps it would be easier
> > > > ultimately...or do you think this kind of problem is
> > > > destined to pop up again....?
> > > >
> > > > Much love and respect,
> > > > Phillip
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > > > I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened,
> > > > or if we're "still
> > > > closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
> > > >
> > > > The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with
> > > > updating people
> > > > on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the
> > > > bureaucratic issues (and
> > > > there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different,
> > > > yet some
> > > > overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other
> > > > challenge is that
> > > > things are still up in the air.
> > > >
> > > > After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the
> > > > authorities for
> > > > several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks
> > > > ago. It was the
> > > > same story as 7 months ago - we need the building
> > > > department and fire
> > > > department to agree that our building is "safe"
> > > > enough to have events. Not
> > > > just one event, but regular events. This was the real
> > > > challenge. After many
> > > > hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the
> > > > fire department
> > > > and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or
> > > > so shows we had
> > > > scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49
> > > > people in the
> > > > building.
> > > >
> > > > What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want
> > > > us to show progress
> > > > towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these
> > > > things will be
> > > > expensive. One of these things, that they just determined
> > > > we would need to
> > > > do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some
> > > > upgrading of the
> > > > building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be
> > > > expensive, this
> > > > might be not-too-expensive.
> > > >
> > > > However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves.
> > > > We would need
> > > > the building owner to pay for some of it. The building
> > > > owner could say no.
> > > > If the building owner says no to paying for some of the
> > > > upgrades, then 21
> > > > Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and
> > > > Darren and our board
> > > > of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know
> > > > what people think. We
> > > > want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff
> > > > here, or email me
> > > > at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
> > > >
> > > > We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if
> > > > that makes it
> > > > easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reading.
> > > > sl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > kristin miltner
> > audio professional
> > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
>
>
>
> --
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 18:36:08 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <57745.37629.qm@web81607.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <821542.1450.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ann Dentel <aldentel at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    I know this is perhaps a ridiculous long shot, but has anyone thought about looking into some sort of arts grant from the city of Oakland to help pay for the work? 
   
   
  PG:

  I assume Sarah writes these grants. We've talked about it in fact, so I yeah - they're applying for funding. 
   
  There main one I know about for works in Oakland is the Oakland Cultural Arts Fund. It's sort of an extension of the mayor's office.
  
I wrote one of those grants once and got funded to do shows at 21 Grand. I was able to pay rent on those nights to help them out.
   
  I plan on writing one this year. I also teach at Oakland School for the Arts. We are moving into the Fox Theater this fall and I am supposed to have access to the new performing arts theaters in the new building. I might be able to put on shows there (with some funding, if I get what I ask for).
   
  I was planning to ask for funding for works that would be performed at both venues. One venue has an educational element, you're performing for kids; and the other aspect for public performance (21 Grand).
   
  There are other funds out there we can go after. You're foolish if you don't try. I know Sarah writes grants all the time and gets funding for things, but they cover projects, not operating costs (usually). And it's hard to find funding for things like covering the costs of developing your space (unless you own the space).
   
  I suggest if any of you go after funding, you include a rental fee in your proposal. That way if you get funding you can pay Darren and Sarah above the cost they might bring in at the door (that they would split with you anyway). They're doing us a tremendous service, and if you're getting funding, it would be good to include them in the cutting of the proverbial pie.
   
  Cheers,
  PG

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Jul 16 19:15:14 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:15:14 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Horace Tapscott on Night Lights
In-Reply-To: <498344.43391.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <498344.43391.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A6DD1673-EC5B-4CA6-8112-7CFF64F78A78@balancepointacoustics.com>

That cd, "The Dark Tree"  with John Carter, Cecil Mcbee and Cyrille  
kicks ass.

On Jul 16, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

> Dear bListers,
>
>   DJ David Johnson did a show on Horace Tapscott and is re-airing  
> it this week. You can listen to it on the link below....here's a  
> note from David:
>
>
>     Last year I did a Night Lights show about Los Angeles pianist  
> Horace
>  Tapscott that included an interview with Steve Isoardi, who helped
>  Horace write his autobiography and who also recently published THE  
> DARK
>  TREE, a book about Horace and the underground L.A. jazz  
> community.  We're
>  re-airing it this week, and it's also posted for online listening:
>
> http://nightlights.blogs.wfiu.org/one-more-you-wrote-through-us- 
> horace-tapscott-2/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 19:37:45 2008
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:37:45 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
In-Reply-To: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C4A37B65.25D96%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <001201c8e7b6$186bc800$6501a8c0@HP28718835617>

I want to express my thanks for you guys keeping this open and dealing with
these latest setbacks.  

I have a couple of questions.
Has the city told you the scope of the work that is being required by the
city?  Often there are several solutions to a problem, some being cheaper
than others.I can be of some assitance getting estimates for the work and
would help with getting estimates for the work.  It sounds like there is
some support for self performing some of the repairs and I have some very
rusty skills and power tools to contribute.  
Do you have contacts for getting this work done?  I can get you a list of
some contractors in the east that do good work at a reasonable price.

There was at least one architect involved with the housing project in the
Noodle factory?  Does anyone know who this is?  Maybe they could do some pro
bono work or discounted work getting the documents ready for the city.  Have
good documents helps getting permits.

The process for construction work.

Defining the scope of work.
Drawings or sketches of the work
Estimates  
Permits  
Signing contracts based on the scope of work
Scheduling the work 
Monitoring
Signing off permit
Final Payment to contractors

Some things to consider. When you hire a licensed contractor it means that
they have workers comp insurance and Liability insurance for themselves and
their workers.  You can request that they name you additionally insured
which covers you in case something goes wrong.  You also have contract law
that will help in disputes.

Hiring non licensed workers or self performing the work. 21 Grand would be
liable for the workers comp for any work that goes on in the space and maybe
required to show proof of the insurance to pull the permit.  If anyone is
injured on the job 21 Grand would be liable.  Just something to keep in
mind.  


-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:18 AM
To: Banewmus List; Brutal SFx List
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet

I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or if we're "still
closed." No, we are not closed ... yet

The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with updating people
on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the bureaucratic issues (and
there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different, yet some
overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other challenge is that
things are still up in the air.

After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the authorities for
several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks ago. It was the
same story as 7 months ago - we need the building department and fire
department to agree that our building is "safe" enough to have events. Not
just one event, but regular events. This was the real challenge. After many
hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the fire department
and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or so shows we had
scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49 people in the
building. 

What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want us to show progress
towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these things will be
expensive. One of these things, that they just determined we would need to
do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some upgrading of the
building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be expensive, this
might be not-too-expensive.

However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves. We would need
the building owner to pay for some of it. The building owner could say no.
If the building owner says no to paying for some of the upgrades, then 21
Grand would either a)move again or b)close.

Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and Darren and our board
of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know what people think. We
want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff here, or email me
at 21grand at 21grand dot org.

We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if that makes it
easier to respond/organize your thoughts.

Thanks for reading.
sl


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jul 16 21:41:36 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:41:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Horace Tapscott on Night Lights
In-Reply-To: <A6DD1673-EC5B-4CA6-8112-7CFF64F78A78@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <664795.63477.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:  That cd, "The Dark Tree" with John Carter, Cecil Mcbee and Cyrille 
kicks ass.

PG:
Yeah...one of his best.

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 16 22:33:37 2008
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:33:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
Message-ID: <54635.56234.qm@web59005.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I can offer any help if possible. I am happy to do something simple as doing a benefit show or helping you move to 27th Street (granted if that is the next two blocks up you do move to since that? seems to be the pattern). 

I also agree with Mr. J. Lindsay that the landlord should be the one to help pay for repairs and building upgrades. You pay rent and shouldn't have to do anything expensive. That would truly be unfair to you.

And Mr. Cremaschi isn't only out of town, he out of the country.

-M!



      

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jul 17 10:33:17 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] job listing - station manager - radio station in oregon
In-Reply-To: <001201c8e7b6$186bc800$6501a8c0@HP28718835617>
Message-ID: <693393.96082.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey bListers,
   
  Don't know if this is on target or not, but I saw this job posting for a station manager in Oregon. If you know anyone up there that might be interested, send it on....
   
  Cheers,
  PG
   
   
   
   
  I can't tell if the community college has posted this opening on any
 radio
job boards, but they did run this in The Oregonian (statewide paper &
on-line) 7/13/08.

This job is to replace the person formerly called a General Manager.
  The
new director of the radio station operation & the new college president
 both
seem committed to improving the station.  In addition, the Mt. Hood
 Jazz
Festival, in it's 3rd incarnation, is returning to the college this
 August -
a very good thing.

Part of the directors communication to station staff & volunteers
 states:

"As part of our mission to serve our listeners and, at the same, be
student-focused, KMHD looks forward to building a partnership with the
 MHCC
Integrated Media/Radio Broadcast Program. We will soon begin discussing
 and
exploring ways to formally collaborate with the program to provide
 students
the opportunity to intern and learn with us.

 
The MHCC employees who serve KMHD are committed to the station?s
 success and
will exemplify professionalism, service and civility. The station is
recruiting new colleagues with exciting and fresh ideas to join our
 current
team. The recruitment process for a new station manager has begun, with
 an
ad appearing in the July 13, 2008, issue of the Oregonian."
 ----------------

Mt. Hood Community College RADIO

Radio Station Supervisor MHCC anticipates an opening for the
 Supervisor,
KMHD Radio Station this August. KMHD is a nonprofit arts organization
dedicated to providing quality jazz & blues 24 hours a day, 365 days a
 year.
To learn more about KMHD, please visit KMHD.org. To learn more about
 MHCC,
visit mhcc.edu If you are interested, please send a letter of interest
 via
email to hr at mhcc.edu or mail to: Pam Polito, Human Resources. 26000 SE
 Stark
St., Gresham, OR 97030 (Please be sure to include contact info.) MHCC
 is an
Equal Opportunity Employer that actively supports workforce diversity.

Webid: 2598245

http://www.oregonlive.com/


From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 17 17:40:11 2008
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:40:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Horace Tapscott on Night Lights
Message-ID: <405357.73564.qm@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I swear the best thing about being on this discussion group is buying whatever music Damon recommends.
Andrew

?Ev oida oti oudev oida


http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
http://oudevoida.blogspot.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:41:36 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Horace Tapscott on Night Lights

Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:? That cd, "The Dark Tree" with John Carter, Cecil Mcbee and Cyrille 
kicks ass.

PG:
Yeah...one of his best.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From aurorarising at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 18 10:08:33 2008
From: aurorarising at hotmail.com (~ Aurora ~)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:08:33 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Summer Salon Solicitation
Message-ID: <BLU114-W501093C8301F00AA15FE87DD890@phx.gbl>

Ladies & Gentle-men:
 
Please pardon the intrusion!
 
I would like to extend a semi-public invitation to participate in the Summer Salons I am holding in my living room until September 20th.
 
Salons will be held on the following days:
 
July 19th
August 2nd
August 16th
August 30th 
September 20th
 
Salons are not open to the public, only to musicians and their friends/family.
(no sausage- but galette & coffee will be served:)
 
These are informal gatherings, where impromptu art & music are made and documented with the intention of posting the results to the PHLOG page on aurorarising.com.  I am also open to the presentation of particular works in the salon, so propose away!
 
Anyhow,  if you have any questions about and/or would like to participate in a salon , please send e-mail to:
 
aurora.josephson at gmail.com 
 
Please send SPECIFIC DATES that you are able to attend 
and WHO you plan to bring with you, 
as well as your chosen INSTRUMENT(s) for that day.
 
Thank you!

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Fri Jul 18 11:40:59 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:40:59 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] More painful than Ma++ Ingalls in the House
Message-ID: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40DFC@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>

A reference to the best rock record of the year (so far), which is from Mute Socialite. Damn! It is so...on the money.
And the Massacre cover (Killing Time) is a welcome treat.

One question: who wrote the tune "More Painful Than Sex"? There's a riff or two in there that I can't get out of my head. That track should last 639 years.

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 16:30:36 2008
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:30:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] anyone seen Jim Ryan?
Message-ID: <843359.70965.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey, has anybody seen or heard from the cranky old man?? I haven't been able to get ahold of him, which has me a bit worried.? He's one of the very few friends?I made in?my six years living in Paradise.
Andrew?
Ev oida oti oudev oida


http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
http://oudevoida.blogspot.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Jon Raskin <jon_raskin at yahoo.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:37:45 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet

I want to express my thanks for you guys keeping this open and dealing with
these latest setbacks.? 

I have a couple of questions.
Has the city told you the scope of the work that is being required by the
city?? Often there are several solutions to a problem, some being cheaper
than others.I can be of some assitance getting estimates for the work and
would help with getting estimates for the work.? It sounds like there is
some support for self performing some of the repairs and I have some very
rusty skills and power tools to contribute.? 
Do you have contacts for getting this work done?? I can get you a list of
some contractors in the east that do good work at a reasonable price.

There was at least one architect involved with the housing project in the
Noodle factory?? Does anyone know who this is?? Maybe they could do some pro
bono work or discounted work getting the documents ready for the city.? Have
good documents helps getting permits.

The process for construction work.

Defining the scope of work.
Drawings or sketches of the work
Estimates? 
Permits? 
Signing contracts based on the scope of work
Scheduling the work 
Monitoring
Signing off permit
Final Payment to contractors

Some things to consider. When you hire a licensed contractor it means that
they have workers comp insurance and Liability insurance for themselves and
their workers.? You can request that they name you additionally insured
which covers you in case something goes wrong.? You also have contract law
that will help in disputes.

Hiring non licensed workers or self performing the work. 21 Grand would be
liable for the workers comp for any work that goes on in the space and maybe
required to show proof of the insurance to pull the permit.? If anyone is
injured on the job 21 Grand would be liable.? Just something to keep in
mind.? 


-----Original Message-----
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
[mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah - 21 Grand
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:18 AM
To: Banewmus List; Brutal SFx List
Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet

I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or if we're "still
closed." No, we are not closed ... yet

The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with updating people
on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the bureaucratic issues (and
there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different, yet some
overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other challenge is that
things are still up in the air.

After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the authorities for
several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks ago. It was the
same story as 7 months ago - we need the building department and fire
department to agree that our building is "safe" enough to have events. Not
just one event, but regular events. This was the real challenge. After many
hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the fire department
and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or so shows we had
scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49 people in the
building. 

What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want us to show progress
towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these things will be
expensive. One of these things, that they just determined we would need to
do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some upgrading of the
building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be expensive, this
might be not-too-expensive.

However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves. We would need
the building owner to pay for some of it. The building owner could say no.
If the building owner says no to paying for some of the upgrades, then 21
Grand would either a)move again or b)close.

Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and Darren and our board
of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know what people think. We
want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff here, or email me
at 21grand at 21grand dot org.

We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if that makes it
easier to respond/organize your thoughts.

Thanks for reading.
sl


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Fri Jul 18 16:32:09 2008
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:32:09 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] anyone seen Jim Ryan?
In-Reply-To: <843359.70965.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <843359.70965.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0807181632x3251b462uec89e784ca06df53@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have Aaron Ximm's contact info? RE off list thanks

k

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Fri Jul 18 16:37:38 2008
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:37:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Aaron Ximm's contact
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0807181637i34382db3ie8c5becca05b46e9@mail.gmail.com>

SORRY didn't mean to hit RE without changing the subject. If someone has his
cel number or something that'd be great,

THANKS

k

-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jul 18 16:51:30 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:51:30 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] anyone seen Jim Ryan?
In-Reply-To: <843359.70965.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <843359.70965.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1C3744F1-F127-4032-B07A-A0FE9CD93F37@balancepointacoustics.com>

I saw him on Piedmont a few weeks ago, he seemed in fine health then.

On Jul 18, 2008, at 4:30 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote:

> Hey, has anybody seen or heard from the cranky old man?  I haven't  
> been able to get ahold of him, which has me a bit worried.  He's  
> one of the very few friends I made in my six years living in Paradise.
> Andrew
> Ev oida oti oudev oida
>
>
> http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
> http://oudevoida.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jon Raskin <jon_raskin at yahoo.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:37:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not  
> closed ...yet
>
> I want to express my thanks for you guys keeping this open and  
> dealing with
> these latest setbacks.
>
> I have a couple of questions.
> Has the city told you the scope of the work that is being required  
> by the
> city?  Often there are several solutions to a problem, some being  
> cheaper
> than others.I can be of some assitance getting estimates for the  
> work and
> would help with getting estimates for the work.  It sounds like  
> there is
> some support for self performing some of the repairs and I have  
> some very
> rusty skills and power tools to contribute.
> Do you have contacts for getting this work done?  I can get you a  
> list of
> some contractors in the east that do good work at a reasonable price.
>
> There was at least one architect involved with the housing project  
> in the
> Noodle factory?  Does anyone know who this is?  Maybe they could do  
> some pro
> bono work or discounted work getting the documents ready for the  
> city.  Have
> good documents helps getting permits.
>
> The process for construction work.
>
> Defining the scope of work.
> Drawings or sketches of the work
> Estimates
> Permits
> Signing contracts based on the scope of work
> Scheduling the work
> Monitoring
> Signing off permit
> Final Payment to contractors
>
> Some things to consider. When you hire a licensed contractor it  
> means that
> they have workers comp insurance and Liability insurance for  
> themselves and
> their workers.  You can request that they name you additionally  
> insured
> which covers you in case something goes wrong.  You also have  
> contract law
> that will help in disputes.
>
> Hiring non licensed workers or self performing the work. 21 Grand  
> would be
> liable for the workers comp for any work that goes on in the space  
> and maybe
> required to show proof of the insurance to pull the permit.  If  
> anyone is
> injured on the job 21 Grand would be liable.  Just something to  
> keep in
> mind.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
> [mailto:newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah - 21  
> Grand
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:18 AM
> To: Banewmus List; Brutal SFx List
> Subject: [NewMusic] Latest 21 Grand info ... We are not closed ...yet
>
> I get the occasional email asking if we've reopened, or if we're  
> "still
> closed." No, we are not closed ... yet
>
> The latest news: the real challenge, okay challenges, with updating  
> people
> on what's going on with 21 Grand is translating the bureaucratic  
> issues (and
> there are multiple bureaucracies at play with different, yet some
> overlapping, issues) into simple statements. The other challenge is  
> that
> things are still up in the air.
>
> After unintentionally managing to escape attention from the  
> authorities for
> several months, we came back under scrutiny a couple weeks ago. It  
> was the
> same story as 7 months ago - we need the building department and fire
> department to agree that our building is "safe" enough to have  
> events. Not
> just one event, but regular events. This was the real challenge.  
> After many
> hours of emails, office visits, and inspections, we got the fire  
> department
> and building department to agree to let us have the 12 or so shows  
> we had
> scheduled through August 17th ... with no more than 49 people in the
> building.
>
> What happens after that? We're not sure yet. They want us to show  
> progress
> towards bringing the building up to code. Some of these things will be
> expensive. One of these things, that they just determined we would  
> need to
> do is install fire sprinklers. We will need to do some upgrading of  
> the
> building for seismic (earthquake) purposes. This might be  
> expensive, this
> might be not-too-expensive.
>
> However, we cannot afford to pay for all of this ourselves. We  
> would need
> the building owner to pay for some of it. The building owner could  
> say no.
> If the building owner says no to paying for some of the upgrades,  
> then 21
> Grand would either a)move again or b)close.
>
> Obviously this is a major decision, and we (Sarah and Darren and  
> our board
> of directors) don't take it lightly. We want to know what people  
> think. We
> want your feedback. You can comment and discuss this stuff here, or  
> email me
> at 21grand at 21grand dot org.
>
> We may have a more formal poll or survey to send out, if that makes it
> easier to respond/organize your thoughts.
>
> Thanks for reading.
> sl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 18 17:06:12 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:06:12 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] What's resonance?
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807181706l53a79a7dr1cbd814f2cce3c69@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, here's where I reveal my ignorance about things I'm supposed to know about.

Can anyone tell me exactly what "resonance" does when applied to a
filter? I know what it sounds like, but am finding myself hard pressed
to describe how it works.

Matt

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 18 17:07:20 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:07:20 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] anyone seen Jim Ryan?
In-Reply-To: <1C3744F1-F127-4032-B07A-A0FE9CD93F37@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <843359.70965.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1C3744F1-F127-4032-B07A-A0FE9CD93F37@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807181707y5a7810b1m329c6d48c8ce34a1@mail.gmail.com>

I saw Jim a week ago - July 10th. He came to the Luggage Store and seemed well.

> On Jul 18, 2008, at 4:30 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote:
>
>> Hey, has anybody seen or heard from the cranky old man?  I haven't
>> been able to get ahold of him, which has me a bit worried.  He's
>> one of the very few friends I made in my six years living in Paradise.
>> Andrew
>> Ev oida oti oudev oida

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 18 17:09:47 2008
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] anyone seen Jim Ryan?
Message-ID: <844293.16096.qm@web30503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

cool, thanks!

?Ev oida oti oudev oida


http://www.andrewwilshusen.com
http://oudevoida.blogspot.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 5:07:20 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] anyone seen Jim Ryan?

I saw Jim a week ago - July 10th. He came to the Luggage Store and seemed well.

> On Jul 18, 2008, at 4:30 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote:
>
>> Hey, has anybody seen or heard from the cranky old man?? I haven't
>> been able to get ahold of him, which has me a bit worried.? He's
>> one of the very few friends I made in my six years living in Paradise.
>> Andrew
>> Ev oida oti oudev oida
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From slusser at pixar.com  Fri Jul 18 19:32:57 2008
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:32:57 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] What's resonance?
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0807181706l53a79a7dr1cbd814f2cce3c69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0807181706l53a79a7dr1cbd814f2cce3c69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BB3174E6-E860-4482-B4A8-3C5F07FC6357@pixar.com>

On Jul 18, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Matt Davignon wrote:
> Can anyone tell me exactly what "resonance" does when applied to a
> filter? I know what it sounds like, but am finding myself hard pressed
> to describe how it works.

This link may help:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct99/articles/synthsecrets.htm

The voltage controlled filter on the original mini-moog and it's  
offspring begat the
term/knob "resonance".  It's kind of a sweepable eq bump for the  
harmonics of the
soundwave.

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jul 18 20:39:15 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:39:15 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] What's resonance?
In-Reply-To: <C4D32A06-17C7-4585-B4AB-95FCB166B0F9@gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0807181706l53a79a7dr1cbd814f2cce3c69@mail.gmail.com>
	<C4D32A06-17C7-4585-B4AB-95FCB166B0F9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807182039j73d233cauca8a25504d5f2b79@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Joe and David!

I was working on a document for "Touch the Gear". Needed to finish it
at work because I don't have a printer at home. I forget what I wrote,
but it actually managed to be pretty close to the bump that David
said. Had no clue as to what it was based on, but now I do. Matt
happy.


>I went:
>
>> Ok, here's where I reveal my ignorance about things I'm supposed to know
>> about.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me exactly what "resonance" does when applied to a
>> filter? I know what it sounds like, but am finding myself hard pressed
>> to describe how it works.

David Slusser was all:
>This link may help:
>
>http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct99/articles/synthsecrets.htm.
>
>The voltage controlled filter on the original mini-moog and it's
>offspring begat the
>term/knob "resonance".  It's kind of a sweepable eq bump for the
>harmonics of the
>soundwave.

>Joe McMahon  was like:
>
> It does the equivalent of forming a resonant cavity for some of the
> frequencies; those frequencies are emphasized in the output.
>
>  --- Joe M.
>

From alee at tentacle.net  Fri Jul 18 21:22:18 2008
From: alee at tentacle.net (Alee Karim)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:22:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] More painful than Ma++ Ingalls in the House
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1216440003.8091.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1216440003.8091.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <40796B57-B126-4AB6-A160-0903E71A71F2@tentacle.net>

Thanks for the kind words, Gino! "More Painful..." was written  
principally by Mr. Staiano with a heavy working-over from Ava and a  
little more working-over from me. I randomly came up with the title.  
You might be in luck because I bet Moe! has a good year left of it in  
the outtakes wing...

-A

On Jul 18, 2008, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:

> A reference to the best rock record of the year (so far), which is  
> from Mute Socialite. Damn! It is so...on the money.
> And the Massacre cover (Killing Time) is a welcome treat.
>
> One question: who wrote the tune "More Painful Than Sex"? There's a  
> riff or two in there that I can't get out of my head. That track  
> should last 639 years.

--
www.theatomicbombaudition.com
www.myspace.com/aleekarim
www.myspace.com/theatomicbombaudition

"Peace is not just the absence of violence, it's its own thing. Just  
like light is its own thing."
-David Lynch





From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Fri Jul 18 21:39:07 2008
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:39:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] More painful than Ma++ Ingalls in the House
In-Reply-To: <40796B57-B126-4AB6-A160-0903E71A71F2@tentacle.net>
References: <mailman.1.1216440003.8091.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
	<40796B57-B126-4AB6-A160-0903E71A71F2@tentacle.net>
Message-ID: <317505170807182139u47f8dfcu89f8d1cf6d850840@mail.gmail.com>

Please, everyone, when you see Matt Ingalls, it's important that you say

"Matt Ingalls is in the hayouse!!!"  really fucking loud! with some
sort of complicated handshake optionally included..

whether or not you've heard that track on our record. thank you,

ava

On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Alee Karim <alee at tentacle.net> wrote:
> Thanks for the kind words, Gino! "More Painful..." was written
> principally by Mr. Staiano with a heavy working-over from Ava and a
> little more working-over from me. I randomly came up with the title.
> You might be in luck because I bet Moe! has a good year left of it in
> the outtakes wing...
>
> -A
>
> On Jul 18, 2008, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
>
>> A reference to the best rock record of the year (so far), which is
>> from Mute Socialite. Damn! It is so...on the money.
>> And the Massacre cover (Killing Time) is a welcome treat.
>>
>> One question: who wrote the tune "More Painful Than Sex"? There's a
>> riff or two in there that I can't get out of my head. That track
>> should last 639 years.
>
> --
> www.theatomicbombaudition.com
> www.myspace.com/aleekarim
> www.myspace.com/theatomicbombaudition
>
> "Peace is not just the absence of violence, it's its own thing. Just
> like light is its own thing."
> -David Lynch
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
www.avamendoza.com
www.myspace.com/avamendoza
www.myspace.com/mutesocialite

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 20 14:43:47 2008
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
Message-ID: <207085.67329.qm@web59011.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We should have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers can bid on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say, Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the money can be to help raise money for 21G. 

Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.

-M!



      

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sun Jul 20 21:29:42 2008
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:29:42 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
In-Reply-To: <207085.67329.qm@web59011.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <207085.67329.qm@web59011.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C41ABE9-5D7C-45FB-A5B7-8B454F3EB762@balancepointacoustics.com>

Sounds a little creepy, maybe they should just bid on you and I  
taking them on a tour of Livermore.

On Jul 20, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Moe! Staiano wrote:

> I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We should  
> have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers can bid  
> on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say,  
> Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or Ava Mendoza,  
> etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the money can be to  
> help raise money for 21G.
>
> Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.
>
> -M!
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Mon Jul 21 02:04:13 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:04:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
In-Reply-To: <207085.67329.qm@web59011.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <497189.10438.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

So, 21 Grand is going to pimp us and somehow make money in the process?
  There are so many reasons why I would never have thought of this...
   
  PG

   
  
Moe! Staiano <moestaiano1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
  I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We should have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers can bid on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say, Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the money can be to help raise money for 21G. 

Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.

-M!




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From paulineo at deeplistening.org  Mon Jul 21 11:18:31 2008
From: paulineo at deeplistening.org (Pauline Oliveros)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:18:31 -0400
Subject: [NewMusic] Toyoji Tomita
Message-ID: <c4c379620807211118m3f00626eyecc93577806b1396@mail.gmail.com>

To all friends of Toyoji Tomita:

The Toyoji Tomita Memorial Concert is set for Sept 10 at Mills College -
Lisser Hall at 8pm. If you would like to be a part of the benefit committee
(duty is to encourage attendance and donations for the Tomita Fund) and be
listed on the program then please reply to <lisab at deeplistening.org> with a
cc to <paulineo at deeplistening.org>. We would like to gather as much
community as possible around this event. You are needed to help promote the
concert and donations to help the Tomita family.

The concert is produced by Deep Listening Institute, Ltd. and Mills College
Music Dept.

Pre-concert - 7:30pm
Toyoji's Song - Tree planting with Andy Strain, Stuart Dempster, Scot
Gresham-Lancaster and the didjeridu ensemble

Reibo - Yearning for the bell - Shakuhachi solo out doors - Philip Gelb

Lisser Hall 8pm

Tending the Fire - poetry and music by Wendy Burch and Marianne Tomita
McDonald.

World Wide Tuning Meditation - Oliveros - Thomas Bickley and the Cardew
Choir

Ghost Dance Trio - Oliveros-accordion, Shoko Hikage-koto & Stuart
Dempster-trombone (for Toyoji)

For Toyoji - Roscoe Mitchell-saxophone & Oliveros- Expanded Instrument
System.

Reception in the ensemble room following the concert.


-- 
Pauline Oliveros
Deep Listening institute. Ltd.
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
845 704 7954
http://paulineoliveros.us
http://www.deeplistening.org

August 5 Ringing for Peace in harmony with the Peace Bell in Hiroshima and
Santa Fe. Ring your bells where ever you are at 7:15 EDT to create a sonic
peace bridge to everywhere.

August 7 New Albion Festival with Stephen Vitiello - Spiegel Tent, Bard
College Annendale on the Hudson NY
August 10 8pm New Albion Festival with Deep Listening Band- Spiegel Tent,
Bard College Annendale on the Hudson NY
August 28 - ICMC colocated performance with Tintinnabulate-RPI, Roots
Ensemble-Belfast & SoundWire-Stanford U.

Tintinnabulate at ICAD07 with Pauline Oliveros
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wJg15PBRTQ0

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Mon Jul 21 13:21:01 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:21:01 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
Message-ID: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40E49@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>

Sure -- if someone is willing to drop a C-note on 21 Grand, I'll give the donor a solo concert. I'm willing to play music for money once in a while...

Phillip Greenlief wrote:
So, 21 Grand is going to pimp us and somehow make money in the process?
  There are so many reasons why I would never have thought of this...




From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Mon Jul 21 13:56:07 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:56:07 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
In-Reply-To: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40E49@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>
References: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40E49@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807211356y24caaa0es6bc9e858892d42db@mail.gmail.com>

Yes - a solo concert. Or custom-built thingamadoo. Or a new
composition to the winner's specs. Or private lesson (in the platonic
sense) (unless the winner is hot). Great idea!

I don't see how the offer of "a date with Matt Davignon" would ever
net 21 Grand anything of value. As a pimpee my feelings may be a
little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an old sweaty sock or
something.

Matt

Gino Robair was like:
> Sure -- if someone is willing to drop a C-note on 21 Grand, I'll give the donor a solo concert. I'm willing to play music for money once in a while...


>Moe! Staiano was all:
> I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We should have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers can bid on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say, Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the money can be to help raise money for 21G.
>
> Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.
>
> -M!

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 15:06:49 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:06:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
Message-ID: <174920.54009.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>As a 
Willie the?
>pimp...ee my feelings may be a
>little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an old sweaty sock 
Formerly owned by Carl Zappa and still wet?
>or something.

How about a live reinactment of FZ's Live at the Fillmore East
or at least a cassette tape of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young arguing in the dressing room of said Fillmore East...

Tierra del Fuego??? Can I come in your bus?
lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:56:07 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea

Yes - a solo concert. Or custom-built thingamadoo. Or a new
composition to the winner's specs. Or private lesson (in the platonic
sense) (unless the winner is hot). Great idea!

I don't see how the offer of "a date with Matt Davignon" would ever
net 21 Grand anything of value. As a pimpee my feelings may be a
little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an old sweaty sock or
something.

Matt

Gino Robair was like:
> Sure -- if someone is willing to drop a C-note on 21 Grand, I'll give the donor a solo concert. I'm willing to play music for money once in a while...


>Moe! Staiano was all:
> I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We should have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers can bid on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say, Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the money can be to help raise money for 21G.
>
> Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.
>
> -M!
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jul 21 15:30:47 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
Message-ID: <323824.75879.qm@web54207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>Or custom-built thingamadoo...
Tom Nunn +?piece of plywood?+ hacksaw + 2 pounds of nail + contact mic = $$$...
lettuce



----- Original Message ----
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:56:07 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea

Yes - a solo concert. Or custom-built thingamadoo. Or a new
composition to the winner's specs. Or private lesson (in the platonic
sense) (unless the winner is hot). Great idea!

I don't see how the offer of "a date with Matt Davignon" would ever
net 21 Grand anything of value. As a pimpee my feelings may be a
little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an old sweaty sock or
something.

Matt

Gino Robair was like:
> Sure -- if someone is willing to drop a C-note on 21 Grand, I'll give the donor a solo concert. I'm willing to play music for money once in a while...


>Moe! Staiano was all:
> I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We should have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers can bid on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say, Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the money can be to help raise money for 21G.
>
> Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.
>
> -M!
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From slusser at pixar.com  Mon Jul 21 15:54:18 2008
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:54:18 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
In-Reply-To: <174920.54009.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <174920.54009.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A5D91CDC-40DB-43DE-823C-55C29C310BAA@pixar.com>

Mud sh sh shark....and B'wana Dick...

I'll never forget seeing that tour.  I know irony
isn't popular, but the Mothers brought down
the house, closing with "Happy Together".  At
this time, 3 members of the Turtles were actually
in the band.  On FZ's first album, "Freak Out",
someone is quoted as saying if they would let
him clean the Mothers up, he could make them as
big as the Turtles, who were totally washed up by
'71.  Funny thing that the ex-Turtles were some of
the most disgusting of the many Mothers.

On Jul 21, 2008, at 3:06 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote:

>> As a
> Willie the?
>> pimp...ee my feelings may be a
>> little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an old sweaty sock
> Formerly owned by Carl Zappa and still wet?
>> or something.
>
> How about a live reinactment of FZ's Live at the Fillmore East
> or at least a cassette tape of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young  
> arguing in the dressing room of said Fillmore East...
>
> Tierra del Fuego??? Can I come in your bus?
> lettuce
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:56:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
>
> Yes - a solo concert. Or custom-built thingamadoo. Or a new
> composition to the winner's specs. Or private lesson (in the platonic
> sense) (unless the winner is hot). Great idea!
>
> I don't see how the offer of "a date with Matt Davignon" would ever
> net 21 Grand anything of value. As a pimpee my feelings may be a
> little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an old sweaty sock or
> something.
>
> Matt
>
> Gino Robair was like:
>> Sure -- if someone is willing to drop a C-note on 21 Grand, I'll  
>> give the donor a solo concert. I'm willing to play music for money  
>> once in a while...
>
>
>> Moe! Staiano was all:
>> I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand benefit. We  
>> should have an auction with musicians. Potential would-be buyers  
>> can bid on a participating musician for a "date". Someone can bid  
>> on, say, Gino Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or  
>> Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a date while the  
>> money can be to help raise money for 21G.
>>
>> Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.
>>
>> -M!
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jul 21 16:02:23 2008
From: tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net (ted brinkley)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:02:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
In-Reply-To: <174920.54009.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <514732.82094.qm@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> How about a live reinactment of FZ's Live at the
> Fillmore East

this was actually done recently (mother's day) at the
bayview vboat club in SF...ringleaders were J Raoul
Brody and Mike Dingle, whom some of you know.

--GC



> or at least a cassette tape of Crosby, Stills, Nash
> and Young arguing in the dressing room of said
> Fillmore East...
> 
> Tierra del Fuego??? Can I come in your bus?
> lettuce
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 1:56:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 21 Grand benefit idea
> 
> Yes - a solo concert. Or custom-built thingamadoo.
> Or a new
> composition to the winner's specs. Or private lesson
> (in the platonic
> sense) (unless the winner is hot). Great idea!
> 
> I don't see how the offer of "a date with Matt
> Davignon" would ever
> net 21 Grand anything of value. As a pimpee my
> feelings may be a
> little hurt when the winning bid turns out to be an
> old sweaty sock or
> something.
> 
> Matt
> 
> Gino Robair was like:
> > Sure -- if someone is willing to drop a C-note on
> 21 Grand, I'll give the donor a solo concert. I'm
> willing to play music for money once in a while...
> 
> 
> >Moe! Staiano was all:
> > I had some idea that would be fun for a 21 Grand
> benefit. We should have an auction with musicians.
> Potential would-be buyers can bid on a participating
> musician for a "date". Someone can bid on, say, Gino
> Robair, Scott Rosenberg, Aurora, Matt Davignon or
> Ava Mendoza, etc. The winning bidder can go on a
> date while the money can be to help raise money for
> 21G.
> >
> > Would people be into this? I think it'd be fun.
> >
> > -M!
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 


From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Tue Jul 22 16:22:48 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:22:48 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] "Rock Drummers 'Are Top Athletes'"
Message-ID: <C4ABB9D8.15508%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

It says so! Right here at the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7518888.stm

We just want to be paid like "top athletes," that's all. ;-)


From tomscandura at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 22 20:46:19 2008
From: tomscandura at hotmail.com (thomas scandura)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:46:19 +0000
Subject: [NewMusic] "Rock Drummers 'Are Top Athletes'"
In-Reply-To: <C4ABB9D8.15508%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
References: <C4ABB9D8.15508%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W23EA4740D3E49AD717AFA5A4840@phx.gbl>


Ha! Thanks

After reading this article I could not get the image of Ben E. Carlos (chain smoking through Cheap Trick's set) out of my head. 


-T



----------------------------------------
> From: Gino.Robair at penton.com
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:22:48 -0500
> Subject: [NewMusic] "Rock Drummers 'Are Top Athletes'"
> 
> It says so! Right here at the BBC:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7518888.stm
> 
> We just want to be paid like "top athletes," that's all. ;-)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger2_072008

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Tue Jul 22 22:02:43 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:02:43 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Bun E.
In-Reply-To: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40E62@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>
References: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40E62@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>
Message-ID: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD31DD3A40E64@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>



Thomas "Stix" Scandura wrote:
<<After reading this article I could not get the image of Ben E. Carlos (chain smoking through Cheap Trick's set) out of my head.>>

THAT takes serious stamina.

From djcypod at gmail.com  Wed Jul 23 20:56:10 2008
From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:56:10 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Meridian Gallery Podcast Presents: Thea Farhadian
Message-ID: <fc5507fa0807232056ta56d776i4935b10ea9738d4e@mail.gmail.com>

Meridian Gallery Music Podcast Presents: May 2008 Composer in
Residence Thea Farhadian "Tattoos and Other Markings: Part 2". Curated
by Tom Bickley on May 14.

To Listen and subscribe visit:
http://meridiangallery.org/MGMusic.htm




Note: If you have been a Meridian Gallery Composer in Residence and
want to be included in the podcast, please send me an email granting
permission to include your work.

From michaelz at zoka.com  Wed Jul 23 23:09:08 2008
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:09:08 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Review of Royce Gallery concert - 7/11/08
Message-ID: <p06240833c4adcbb5186f@[192.168.0.3]>

Solo sets by Suki O'Kane, Matt Davignon, Amy X Neuberg, and Moe! 
Staiano, plus a final quintet with Pamela Z:

<http://www.sfcv.org/2008/07/15/kicking-it-around/>

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Thu Jul 24 08:33:04 2008
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:33:04 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Oluyemi Thomas in AAJ online
Message-ID: <C4ADEEC0.1564F%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

Local musician Oluyemi Thomas gets some well-deserved recognition in NYC in
All About Jazz:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=29936


From jfheule at gmail.com  Thu Jul 24 11:39:25 2008
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:39:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Maine to Florida bike-noise-folk Tour, Aug 1 - Oct 1
In-Reply-To: <987ac8480807231519u4d3d864me0ecd4fe453a5b87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <987ac8480807231519u4d3d864me0ecd4fe453a5b87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860807241139h19408a33p2bd8ef6bc01f8b16@mail.gmail.com>

eco-tour


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: horaflora <oatmealemail at gmail.com>


    hello there,

    I and my friend Kurt Weismann (of the band feathers) are about to take

    off on a 2 month bike tour of the east coast.. We leave Northampton,

    mass on Aug 1st, go as far north as Portland, Maine and end up in the

    Everglades about 60 days later.. Toting our various musical equipment

    and camping gear along the way and basically riding about 50 miles a

    day, we will be playing a show every other day,  approximately.

    Kurt plays his guitar and sings songs not terribly dissimilar to the

    songs he wrote with feathers (of course, this is only pertinent if one

    is familiar with feathers...) and is on tour sort of to promote his

    new album on important records, "spiritual sci-fi", but more because

    we can do it without terribly harming the environment in the process,

    maybe even inspiring others to tour and/or travel more sustainably

    when their time comes!

    I (Raub Roy, or horaflora) play a pair of audio transducers, a
drum, balloons, horn

    mouthpieces, and Dictaphones. This is best regarded as

    "electro-acoustic" music, and has a decidedly extra-spacial bent, with

    many manner of objects making sounds all around the room, perhaps even

    using the available PA for some warm bass... Perhaps.

    We may have another ex-feathers member along, Asa irons, whose album

    (also on important records) " Asa Irons and Swann Miller" is excellent

    and highly praised by those who know it! 'Cause it's really good...

    Oh,  both Kurt and Asa play in J Mascis' band "witch".. But will be on

    vacation from it while they're on tour, obviously!

    we'll be eating grasshoppers when possible for their highly
sustainable and excellent proteins...



    There will be a blog updated daily (I think) with pictures and
words... maybe video and sound too, I dunno yet...



     cycledelicmusictrip.blogspot.com

    Ok, see you soon and thanks!

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Sat Jul 26 18:34:20 2008
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:34:20 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Oluyemi Thomas in AAJ online
In-Reply-To: <C4ADEEC0.1564F%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
References: <C4ADEEC0.1564F%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <CCF89954-45ED-4143-9761-3085F64ADD3F@matthewgoodheart.com>

Nice article, especially nice mention of Michael Wimberly. He also  
does great work with Charles Gayle and was great with Slammin' the  
Infinite last year (one of my favorite concerts of 2007).

He's interesting in that he's a really well rounded drummer who never  
set out to be a free-jazz kind of guy, but just went where the gigs  
were; and is actually a serious Djembe player; his approach to free  
playing is rhythm-oriented in a way that has great power. It fits  
particularly well under both Gayle and Sabir Mateen.

He also has a great seafood restaurant in Fort Green in Brooklyn, but  
that may be defunct now. . .

mg



On Jul 24, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Robair, Gino wrote:

> Local musician Oluyemi Thomas gets some well-deserved recognition in  
> NYC in
> All About Jazz:
>
> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=29936
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sun Jul 27 09:56:01 2008
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Oluyemi Thomas in AAJ online
In-Reply-To: <CCF89954-45ED-4143-9761-3085F64ADD3F@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <637025.66137.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Michael is a sweetheart! I had no idea he had his own restaraunt...there's another Brooklyn destination, if it's in business.
   
  I have massive respect for Oluyemi - he was someone early on in my association with this scene where I thought, wow, that guy really has his own thing...for real. Not an easy claim for someone that plays saxophone.

  PG
  
Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote:
  Nice article, especially nice mention of Michael Wimberly. He also 
does great work with Charles Gayle and was great with Slammin' the 
Infinite last year (one of my favorite concerts of 2007).

He's interesting in that he's a really well rounded drummer who never 
set out to be a free-jazz kind of guy, but just went where the gigs 
were; and is actually a serious Djembe player; his approach to free 
playing is rhythm-oriented in a way that has great power. It fits 
particularly well under both Gayle and Sabir Mateen.

He also has a great seafood restaurant in Fort Green in Brooklyn, but 
that may be defunct now. . .

mg



On Jul 24, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Robair, Gino wrote:

> Local musician Oluyemi Thomas gets some well-deserved recognition in 
> NYC in
> All About Jazz:
>
> http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=29936
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From 21grand at 21grand.org  Mon Jul 28 17:38:37 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:38:37 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] New SL Morse stuff on myspace
Message-ID: <C4B3B49D.261D6%21grand@21grand.org>

For anyone interested, and the 99.87% of humanity that isn't:

Excerpts of the last 2 SL Morse performances are up on our
my(friendlyfascist)space page:

http://www.myspace.com/slmorse

"No Exit" by Jean Paul Sartre at Skronkathon 7/13/08
Josephson - O'Kane - Lockhart

And

"exerted ... Accomplishing nothing" - Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus
3/23/08
Lockhart - Walter

sl



From michaelz at zoka.com  Tue Jul 29 10:48:02 2008
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:48:02 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
Message-ID: <p06240824c4b507921bcf@[192.168.0.3]>

>Best Buy to open in-store music centers
>
>By ASHLEY M. HEHER
>July 28, 2008
>
>CHICAGO (AP) - Hoping to cater to everyone from the garage guitarist 
>to a recording musician, Best Buy Co. Inc. is announcing a massive 
>new initiative that sets aside store space for an array of musical 
>instruments and gear in dozens of sites nationwide.
>
>The nation's largest consumer electronics retailer will announce 
>Tuesday that it plans to open as many as 85 of the music centers 
>inside its stores by the end of the year and could add even more 
>locations in the future, executives told The Associated Press.
>
>Each site will use about 2,500 square feet of retail space and 
>include roughly 1,000 different products with well-known brand names 
>such as Fender, Gibson, Drum Workshop and Roland.
>
>"We're not just extending the shelf space in the store, we're 
>creating a designated area specifically for this experience," said 
>Kevin Balon, the company's vice president of musical instruments. 
>"And we're trying to create an authentic and genuine musical 
>instrument store look and feel inside of Best Buy."
>
>The Richfield, Minn.-based retailer - already an industry leader in 
>sales of everything from digital cameras to video games - will use 
>its headfirst jump into the $8 billion U.S. musical instrument 
>market to carve out new revenue opportunities as sales of CDs and 
>DVDs slow, experts said.
>
>When the rollout is complete, Best Buy - already considered by many 
>investors to be a global powerhouse in the electronics retailing 
>world - will become the second-largest instrument seller in the 
>country based on locations.
>
>But some observers are cautious about whether the expansion efforts 
>will reap big rewards, particularly as the nation's economy slows 
>and consumers become even more particular about spending hard-earned 
>paychecks.
>
>"It's not a high-growth area and it's obviously going to take up a 
>lot of real estate," said Morningstar retail analyst Brady Lemos.
>
>Executives declined to comment on how much the company is investing 
>in the project or how much they expect to gain from the 
>store-within-a-store effort.
>
>So far, ten sites are already open, including five in California, 
>two in Illinois and two in Minnesota.
>
>Best Buy's selection will include everything from accessories - 
>picks, sheet music and cases - to high-end basses, guitars, 
>keyboards and DJ equipment. Instruments will be housed in separate 
>rooms and the company also plans to offer group music lessons.
>
>Acoustic guitars will sell between $89.99 and $3,200 and drum kits 
>will retail for as much as $5,000.
>
>A selection of the offerings will also be available online in early August.
>
>"However you want to play, if play means you're just learning and 
>you want to play with a bunch of buddies, or you want to play on 
>stage, we can support any of that," Balon said.


<http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jk40yNOcuwE5HK6ZJSabH4vppS9AD926M57O0>


From slusser at pixar.com  Tue Jul 29 10:57:21 2008
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:57:21 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <p06240824c4b507921bcf@[192.168.0.3]>
References: <p06240824c4b507921bcf@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <E66AB1C0-BFB4-4DE0-9397-473F0EC6CE0C@pixar.com>

look out, Guitar Center

On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:

>> Best Buy to open in-store music centers
>>
>> By ASHLEY M. HEHER
>> July 28, 2008
>>
>> CHICAGO (AP) - Hoping to cater to everyone from the garage guitarist
>> to a recording musician, Best Buy Co. Inc. is announcing a massive
>> new initiative that sets aside store space for an array of musical
>> instruments and gear in dozens of sites nationwide.
>>
>> The nation's largest consumer electronics retailer will announce
>> Tuesday that it plans to open as many as 85 of the music centers
>> inside its stores by the end of the year and could add even more
>> locations in the future, executives told The Associated Press.
>>
>> Each site will use about 2,500 square feet of retail space and
>> include roughly 1,000 different products with well-known brand names
>> such as Fender, Gibson, Drum Workshop and Roland.
>>
>> "We're not just extending the shelf space in the store, we're
>> creating a designated area specifically for this experience," said
>> Kevin Balon, the company's vice president of musical instruments.
>> "And we're trying to create an authentic and genuine musical
>> instrument store look and feel inside of Best Buy."
>>
>> The Richfield, Minn.-based retailer - already an industry leader in
>> sales of everything from digital cameras to video games - will use
>> its headfirst jump into the $8 billion U.S. musical instrument
>> market to carve out new revenue opportunities as sales of CDs and
>> DVDs slow, experts said.
>>
>> When the rollout is complete, Best Buy - already considered by many
>> investors to be a global powerhouse in the electronics retailing
>> world - will become the second-largest instrument seller in the
>> country based on locations.
>>
>> But some observers are cautious about whether the expansion efforts
>> will reap big rewards, particularly as the nation's economy slows
>> and consumers become even more particular about spending hard-earned
>> paychecks.
>>
>> "It's not a high-growth area and it's obviously going to take up a
>> lot of real estate," said Morningstar retail analyst Brady Lemos.
>>
>> Executives declined to comment on how much the company is investing
>> in the project or how much they expect to gain from the
>> store-within-a-store effort.
>>
>> So far, ten sites are already open, including five in California,
>> two in Illinois and two in Minnesota.
>>
>> Best Buy's selection will include everything from accessories -
>> picks, sheet music and cases - to high-end basses, guitars,
>> keyboards and DJ equipment. Instruments will be housed in separate
>> rooms and the company also plans to offer group music lessons.
>>
>> Acoustic guitars will sell between $89.99 and $3,200 and drum kits
>> will retail for as much as $5,000.
>>
>> A selection of the offerings will also be available online in  
>> early August.
>>
>> "However you want to play, if play means you're just learning and
>> you want to play with a bunch of buddies, or you want to play on
>> stage, we can support any of that," Balon said.
>
>
> <http://ap.google.com/article/ 
> ALeqM5jk40yNOcuwE5HK6ZJSabH4vppS9AD926M57O0>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul 29 11:29:44 2008
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:29:44 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
Message-ID: <20080729.113320.1664.107.weaselw@juno.com>

death to those little 'mom and pop' music stores like guitar center!
bigger and better. more volume. 

the movie 'idiocracy' is coming closer and closer to total reality by the
day. why does so much science fiction eventually come true?

ww
 
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:57:21 -0700 David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
writes:
> look out, Guitar Center
> 
> On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:
> 
> >> Best Buy to open in-store music centers
____________________________________________________________
Click here to find a massage therapy school near you. 
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l9de0acq7P7RlX2B00jMz6T12ZKo9cEVe0t9AiIh6IACMBw/

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jul 29 11:33:46 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:33:46 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic]  Instruments 'R Us
Message-ID: <C4B4B09A.2621B%21grand@21grand.org>

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! IT'S MADE OUT OF PEOPLE! ... Archer Daniels Midland
supermarket to the world ...

sl

Weasel walter wrote:
the movie 'idiocracy' is coming closer and closer to total reality by the
day. why does so much science fiction eventually come true?



From letucepry at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 11:46:21 2008
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
Message-ID: <946232.72818.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

how did you see this "idiocracy", I thought the St<a>r8ucks (exotic coffee for men) corporation crushed that puny movie??
Brawndo's got what musicians crave...It's got chinese prisoner guitars...

lettuce


----- Original Message ----
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 11:29:44 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us

death to those little 'mom and pop' music stores like guitar center!
bigger and better. more volume. 

the movie 'idiocracy' is coming closer and closer to total reality by the
day. why does so much science fiction eventually come true?

ww

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:57:21 -0700 David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
writes:
> look out, Guitar Center
> 
> On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:
> 
> >> Best Buy to open in-store music centers
____________________________________________________________
Click here to find a massage therapy school near you. 
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l9de0acq7P7RlX2B00jMz6T12ZKo9cEVe0t9AiIh6IACMBw/
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 11:51:18 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:51:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <20080729.113320.1664.107.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <935304.50752.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Welcome to Costco. I love you.


--- On Tue, 7/29/08, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:

> From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 11:29 AM
> death to those little 'mom and pop' music stores
> like guitar center!
> bigger and better. more volume. 
> 
> the movie 'idiocracy' is coming closer and closer
> to total reality by the
> day. why does so much science fiction eventually come true?
> 
> ww
>  
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:57:21 -0700 David Slusser
> <slusser at pixar.com>
> writes:
> > look out, Guitar Center
> > 
> > On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:
> > 
> > >> Best Buy to open in-store music centers
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click here to find a massage therapy school near you. 
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l9de0acq7P7RlX2B00jMz6T12ZKo9cEVe0t9AiIh6IACMBw/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


      

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jul 29 11:52:32 2008
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:52:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <935304.50752.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20080729.113320.1664.107.weaselw@juno.com>
	<935304.50752.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40807291152v5af6fbd9o19c0cf7461a95fd3@mail.gmail.com>

We should all descend on a Costco, spread out to different parts of it and
start improvising.
P.

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Welcome to Costco. I love you.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 7/29/08, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:
>
> > From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
> > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> > Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> > Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 11:29 AM
> > death to those little 'mom and pop' music stores
> > like guitar center!
> > bigger and better. more volume.
> >
> > the movie 'idiocracy' is coming closer and closer
> > to total reality by the
> > day. why does so much science fiction eventually come true?
> >
> > ww
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:57:21 -0700 David Slusser
> > <slusser at pixar.com>
> > writes:
> > > look out, Guitar Center
> > >
> > > On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Best Buy to open in-store music centers
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Click here to find a massage therapy school near you.
> >
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l9de0acq7P7RlX2B00jMz6T12ZKo9cEVe0t9AiIh6IACMBw/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
------------------------------------------------------------

From weaselw at juno.com  Tue Jul 29 11:55:57 2008
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:55:57 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
Message-ID: <20080729.115600.1664.108.weaselw@juno.com>

a small, renegade indie company called "netflix" distributes the movie .
. .

ww
 
On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Ron Lettuce
<letucepry at yahoo.com> writes:
> how did you see this "idiocracy", I thought the St<a>r8ucks (exotic 
> coffee for men) corporation crushed that puny movie??
____________________________________________________________
Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nEnkruWA04DE7Fttm4m9iIJpB2uWL4h7wY6NNTOtkwyCPkK/

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 29 12:01:52 2008
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:01:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <946232.72818.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <819328.94197.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

> Brawndo's got what musicians crave...It's got
> chinese prisoner guitars...

Official sponsor of the olympic games 

we have always been at war with Oceania

look over there!


      

From michaelz at zoka.com  Tue Jul 29 13:02:25 2008
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:02:25 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <20080729.115600.1664.108.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20080729.115600.1664.108.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <p06240828c4b526d76fe0@[192.168.0.3]>

As does a little startup called Comcast.

Nice film review here:
<http://www.avclub.com/content/node/52408>

MZ


On 7/29/08, weasel walter wrote:

>a small, renegade indie company called "netflix" distributes the movie .
>. .
>
>ww
>
>On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Ron Lettuce
><letucepry at yahoo.com> writes:
>>  how did you see this "idiocracy", I thought the St<a>r8ucks (exotic
>  > coffee for men) corporation crushed that puny movie??

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From walters at doubtfulpalace.com  Tue Jul 29 13:52:43 2008
From: walters at doubtfulpalace.com (Tim Walters)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <p06240828c4b526d76fe0@[192.168.0.3]>
References: <20080729.115600.1664.108.weaselw@juno.com>
	<p06240828c4b526d76fe0@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <19925.198.1217364763.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>

There's also the original from 1951, available from decidedly
non-corporate (really) NESFA Press:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

(Warning: contains dubious, but at least non-racist, eugenics.)

-- 
Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com



From slusser at pixar.com  Tue Jul 29 14:11:44 2008
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:11:44 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <19925.198.1217364763.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>
References: <20080729.115600.1664.108.weaselw@juno.com>
	<p06240828c4b526d76fe0@[192.168.0.3]>
	<19925.198.1217364763.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>
Message-ID: <9318225B-C7AA-4BBF-AA67-1B77DE1DE9F7@pixar.com>

Sounds like where the clarinet playing auteur's "Sleeper" came from.

On Jul 29, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Tim Walters wrote:

> There's also the original from 1951, available from decidedly
> non-corporate (really) NESFA Press:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons
>
> (Warning: contains dubious, but at least non-racist, eugenics.)
>
> -- 
> Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Tue Jul 29 18:58:51 2008
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:58:51 -0400
Subject: [NewMusic] Instruments 'R Us
In-Reply-To: <9318225B-C7AA-4BBF-AA67-1B77DE1DE9F7@pixar.com>
References: <20080729.115600.1664.108.weaselw@juno.com>
	<p06240828c4b526d76fe0@192.168.0.3>
	<19925.198.1217364763.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>
	<9318225B-C7AA-4BBF-AA67-1B77DE1DE9F7@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060807291858n79f2db11rf586d31881f7d0be@mail.gmail.com>

hey, has anyone run into fred "spaceman" long recently? he's always
been a great cat for omens and the like of both the utopian and
distopian ilk. not to mention much more interesting than patronizing
the usual corporate sponsors that purportedly make the world, how you
say, go round...

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM, David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com> wrote:
> Sounds like where the clarinet playing auteur's "Sleeper" came from.
>
> On Jul 29, 2008, at 1:52 PM, Tim Walters wrote:
>
>> There's also the original from 1951, available from decidedly
>> non-corporate (really) NESFA Press:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons
>>
>> (Warning: contains dubious, but at least non-racist, eugenics.)
>>
>> --
>> Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Tue Jul 29 19:10:41 2008
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:10:41 -0400
Subject: [NewMusic] Domest, I? Cation!
Message-ID: <d3165c060807291910x134c4b92g77a24ca38eaecec@mail.gmail.com>

whaddup homeys,

hey, so in a not so music-y related post, does anyone know of anyone
in and around sf who might have vacancies in their building or might
be in need of a pair of roommates sometime on the horizon? i know matt
d's been posting about his/polly's building in oakland, but alas, the
mrs. is gonna be at school in sf, so i think the decisions been made
that we'd rather throw down on an apt. in the city as opposed to deal
with the commute... and yes, I am aware of that small mom-and-pop
called craigslist, but hey, ya never know.... live with friends who
have similar interests in music and art - say what!?

anyways, just throwing it out there. drop me a line if anyone knows of
anything and we go from there, ja?

word out,

t.

From slusser at pixar.com  Tue Jul 29 21:58:32 2008
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:58:32 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] questionable newmus content
References: <BAEA78D3-9291-4558-9EDD-45879D9B19D8@Citylights.com>
Message-ID: <A8C8991E-C1EA-4D53-8798-9B6A7DA40FA0@pixar.com>

I think I can make this on topic by suggesting that the  
marginalization/banishment of music by-
of-and-for-the-people in the monopolized media stream, is just a part  
of their larger scheme of rapacious greed that has brought this  
country to its knees...

Begin forwarded message:
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Dennis Kucinich <reply at kucinichforcongress.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 10:19 AM
>>> Subject: URGENT: need your help - Impeachment Petition Deadline  
>>> Midnight Wednesday
>>> To: marc at marcdalio.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> URGENT: need your help -
>>> Impeachment Petition Deadline Midnight Wednesday
>>>
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> Because of your vigilance and support for democracy, last Friday  
>>> was a day of singular importance in Washington. The House  
>>> Judiciary Committee met to discuss the Bush Administration's  
>>> abuse of executive power and for the first time the case for  
>>> Impeachment was discussed in front of a Congressional committee,  
>>> in depth, at length and with authority.
>>>
>>> Twenty members of the Judiciary Committee attended the six hour  
>>> hearing, during which twelve witnesses, including myself and four  
>>> members of Congress testified. In this hearing I called for the  
>>> Impeachment of the President for misrepresenting a case for war.
>>>
>>> This week I will present members of Congress with Impeachment  
>>> petitions submitted by those of you who have signed the on-line  
>>> impeachment form.
>>>
>>> I need your help. In the next few days we must redouble our  
>>> efforts to get more signatures on the online petition at  
>>> kucinich.us. I'm asking each of you to please contact at least  
>>> ten of your friends to go to www.Kucinich.us now and sign the  
>>> Impeachment petition that will be delivered by me. Wednesday  
>>> night is the deadline.
>>>
>>> Please send out an email to all your friends and family, post  
>>> this link,http://kucinich.us to your blogs and make this effort  
>>> count as this is the only petition that I will deliver.
>>>
>>> Thank you so very much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PO Box 110475 | Cleveland | OH | 44111 | 216-252-9000
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jul 29 23:02:36 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:02:36 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] save a cat!
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807292302t683818f6m6159e7132314c761@mail.gmail.com>

Once again, questionable ba-newmus content...

However, my friend Sarah Stiles just told me she has to take her cat
to get euthanized this friday if she cannot find a home for it on or
before thursday. Since Sarah moved out of her cat-friendly apartment 2
years ago, Ren (the cat) has been living with a friend. However, the
friend is unable to care for the cat anymore. She could bring the cat
to a kennel, but since it's an old cat, it's not likely to get
adopted, and would probably be euthanized anyway.

Unfortunately this cat has a few issues. Her name is Ren, she's 12
years old, and does not like living with other cats. It sounds like
she'd be better off as a mostly-outdoor cat, since Sarah says she (the
cat) has some "urinating on the wrong place" issues. An ideal
situation would be a yard where the cat has a place to get shelter,
and has access to food.

Please let Sarah know if you can adopt Ren. Her email is fire at sarahstiles.com

Matt

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jul 30 09:56:39 2008
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:56:39 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Organized shreds
Message-ID: <C4B5EB57.26291%21grand@21grand.org>

http://www.stsanders.com/

The commentary is good, too.

sl



From polly.moller at gmail.com  Wed Jul 30 12:46:40 2008
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:46:40 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] Domest, I? Cation!
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060807291910x134c4b92g77a24ca38eaecec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d3165c060807291910x134c4b92g77a24ca38eaecec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40807301246r3edb9b98h22001e6d70105dcc@mail.gmail.com>

This won't work for Travis, but here's a housing opportunity in W. Oakland
one of us might be into.
P.

Lobot Gallery is looking for a new resident for our 10,000 sq. ft. live/work
warehouse. We are offering a month-long sublet, with the possibility of
permanent residency, to a working artist who feeds off of collaboration and
is excited to contribute his or her time and energy to our space.


For only $580 a month (including utilities) you could have a medium sized
lofted bedroom studio with excellent light and 14 foot ceilings.


Our space includes a bike repair shop, an outfitted screen-printing studio,
private work studios, loft-style bedrooms, a band practice room, a communal
kitchen, a lounge space, and a large gallery space used for performances and
art shows.


Us: The twelve permanent residents include musicians, a writer, an aerial
artist, clothing designers, and a multitude of visual artists. We range in
age from early twenties to mid thirties. As a community, we respect personal
time and space, but love to hang out together. House hang out activities
usually include bike riding, dinner eating, music playing, gallery
attending, and party making.


You: An artist that wants to be a part of our larger art family. You are
constantly seeking out art projects of various sorts and love collaborating
with others. You are o.k. with pets, late night noise, and things getting
messy. You like cleaning up after yourself and hate drama parties.


Please email us with info about your work and interests. We would love to
view websites, digital pictures, manuscripts, sound clips, etc. We will not
consider anyone who does not submit examples of their work in their email.


http://www. lobotgallery.
com/roomie<http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmxvYm90Z2FsbGVyeS5jb20vcm9vbWll>

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 7:10 PM, Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com>wrote:

> whaddup homeys,
>
> hey, so in a not so music-y related post, does anyone know of anyone
> in and around sf who might have vacancies in their building or might
> be in need of a pair of roommates sometime on the horizon? i know matt
> d's been posting about his/polly's building in oakland, but alas, the
> mrs. is gonna be at school in sf, so i think the decisions been made
> that we'd rather throw down on an apt. in the city as opposed to deal
> with the commute... and yes, I am aware of that small mom-and-pop
> called craigslist, but hey, ya never know.... live with friends who
> have similar interests in music and art - say what!?
>
> anyways, just throwing it out there. drop me a line if anyone knows of
> anything and we go from there, ja?
>
> word out,
>
> t.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
------------------------------------------------------------

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Wed Jul 30 13:55:38 2008
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:55:38 -0700
Subject: [NewMusic] save a cat!
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0807292302t683818f6m6159e7132314c761@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0807292302t683818f6m6159e7132314c761@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0807301355n337a6c78iaf032b05e70c1a18@mail.gmail.com>

More info on Wren (not Ren) the cat, who desperately needs adoption.

Wren the cat was spayed as a kitten and recently had a vet exam, a
vaccine renewal, and a blood test which has indicated her organs to be
in good shape. I have taken very good care of her. She  just turned 12
years old and is still rather playful for a mature female cat. She
wears a tuxedo outfit and has the softest fur I've ever felt on a cat.
With her big eyes and ears, and long whiskers, she resembles an otter,
especially when she lays stretched out on her back with her paws
curled to her mouth! One of her parents was Siamese, and Wren
certainly exhibits some Siamese personality traits, such as being
rather talkative. Wren is initially very timid and sensitive, but very
friendly once she warms up. Wren has a sense for comforting people
when they are sad. Wren also has a sense of humor - so watch out! Wren
has been an indoor and outdoor cat, and prefers the outdoors when it
is warm. She is the perfect cat to cuddle up with next to a warm
hearty fire ? and she'd appreciate having her fat tummy petted!

 A humble adoption fee will apply.

matt

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Once again, questionable ba-newmus content...
>
> However, my friend Sarah Stiles just told me she has to take her cat
> to get euthanized this friday if she cannot find a home for it on or
> before thursday. Since Sarah moved out of her cat-friendly apartment 2
> years ago, Ren (the cat) has been living with a friend. However, the
> friend is unable to care for the cat anymore. She could bring the cat
> to a kennel, but since it's an old cat, it's not likely to get
> adopted, and would probably be euthanized anyway.
>
> Unfortunately this cat has a few issues. Her name is Ren, she's 12
> years old, and does not like living with other cats. It sounds like
> she'd be better off as a mostly-outdoor cat, since Sarah says she (the
> cat) has some "urinating on the wrong place" issues. An ideal
> situation would be a yard where the cat has a place to get shelter,
> and has access to food.
>
> Please let Sarah know if you can adopt Ren. Her email is fire at sarahstiles.com
>
> Matt
>

From moestaiano1 at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 31 22:47:36 2008
From: moestaiano1 at yahoo.com (Moe! Staiano)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:47:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [NewMusic] Place for printing 7" covers?
Message-ID: <216915.15846.qm@web59003.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi!

Would anyone know or recommend any place that does an affordable and good printing jobs for printing out covers for 7" records? I'm going to get a 45 pressed and will be going through Pirates Press, but was thinking if I'd just get the vinyl pressed from them and the covers printed elsewhere if that would cut the cost a bit if it was done effectively. I know there is 1984 Printing in Oakland (they'll be printing the insert for the Mute Socialite LP I just got pressed soon), but is there something for 7" covers?

Yeah. This is for Mute Socialite (we just recorded with Mr. Dan Rathbun last night) and I'm pretty excited I guess. Whee.

Anyway, any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Moe!
209-814-2524