From mus21stc at aol.com Thu May 1 10:26:38 2008 From: mus21stc at aol.com (mus21stc at aol.com) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 13:26:38 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Writings about Henry Brant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA79C7A49D08CD-FF8-1496@webmail-nd15.sysops.aol.com> <"The main thing is for a composer to stick around as long as possible and keep working. Otherwise, you miss things like this." Henry Brant on winning the Pulitzer Prize. (1913-2008)> Great! Will be printing above, along with sections of the NYT obit, plus any writing about Henry that anyone wants to send along, in 21ST-CENTURY MUSIC (P.O. Box 2842, San Anselmo, CA 94960), now online at 21st-centurymusic.com and 21stcenturymusic.blogspot.com From Gino.Robair at penton.com Thu May 1 17:35:19 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:35:19 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] John Butcher workshop: June 7 Message-ID: Hello everybody, English saxophonist John Butcher will be visiting the Bay Area in early June to take part in the Matthew Sperry Memorial Festival. I am putting together an improvisation workshop for him on Saturday afternoon, June 7, in Oakland. The workshop is for folks with any level of musicianship. Dancers, actors, readers, and others are also welcome. If you're not familiar with Buthcer's music, he's one of the foremost innovators on the instrument in Europe, combining a deep knowledge of multiphonic playing with circular breathing and feedback. He does workshops often in Europe, which include some of the practices developed by John Stevens among others, as well as his own concepts. He's worked with everyone from The Ex and Polwechsel to Derek Bailey and Eddie Prevost. Check out his work at www.johnbutcher.org.uk . The workshop will last around three hours. Fee is $35 a person. Please contact me off-list if you are interested. I have a limited number of spaces available. Thanks! Cheers, ginorobair From djcypod at gmail.com Thu May 1 20:57:50 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:57:50 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Eco-touring Message-ID: this company helps bands plan eco-friendly tours, could be the wave of the future: http://www.reverbrock.org/site/ From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Fri May 2 11:00:59 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:00:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Eco-touring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03916575-09FE-459B-AF3D-E00FF36242F5@balancepointacoustics.com> Might be nice for making Jack Johnson and his fans feel smug and better about themselves, but I doubt it really does much for the situation. On May 1, 2008, at 8:57 PM, beau wrote: > this company helps bands plan eco-friendly tours, could be the wave of > the future: > http://www.reverbrock.org/site/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From jfheule at gmail.com Fri May 2 11:13:39 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:13:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Eco-touring In-Reply-To: <03916575-09FE-459B-AF3D-E00FF36242F5@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <03916575-09FE-459B-AF3D-E00FF36242F5@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805021113q4dcbe388r5952dbbce45c6a24@mail.gmail.com> Ettrick / Tony Dryer / Tralphaz / Elf Ass just undertook a 3-week US tour in a Toyota Corolla. jacob On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Damon Smith wrote: > Might be nice for making Jack Johnson and his fans feel smug and > better about themselves, but I doubt it really does much for the > situation. > > > > On May 1, 2008, at 8:57 PM, beau wrote: > > this company helps bands plan eco-friendly tours, could be the wave of > > the future: > > http://www.reverbrock.org/site/ -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From alee at tentacle.net Fri May 2 21:37:16 2008 From: alee at tentacle.net (Alee Karim) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 21:37:16 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring Message-ID: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> The amount of ecological impact created by many of us when we tour is relatively small. The reason those big tours need a service like this is because people like Jack Johnson transport a titanic amount of equipment and people who consume gas, waste food, etc. Oh, and yeah, it's probably good PR too... Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! A -- www.theatomicbombaudition.com www.myspace.com/aleekarim www.myspace.com/theatomicbombaudition "Peace is not just the absence of violence, it's its own thing. Just like light is its own thing." -David Lynch From jfheule at gmail.com Sat May 3 00:55:28 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 00:55:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> References: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> i don't know if this actually explains anything, but... http://flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/2456673835/in/set-72157604831982021/ On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Alee Karim wrote: > Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From bradysharp at gmail.com Sat May 3 01:10:52 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 03:10:52 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: *... and I thought one of THESE would have been better for Ecto-touring... http://tinyurl.com/6k2ryo* Brady On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:55 AM, jacob felix heule wrote: > i don't know if this actually explains anything, but... > http://flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/2456673835/in/set-72157604831982021/ > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Alee Karim wrote: > > Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! > > -- > http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix > http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Sat May 3 05:03:53 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:03:53 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: References: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: as the token eco-hippy of the lot, eh, i should probably weigh in. 1.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about touring. - let's face it - everything you do, from the driving to the food to the power used in the hall while you play is somehow or another sucking resources. granted, yeah, we all have a smaller footprint than say any major label touring jackass (especially the eco-whiners like jack johnson or moby) who has to cart their shit on multi semis and whose presence alone for one evening will generate probably a short ton of waste just from the plastic beer bottles, uneaten hot dogs, festival swag, etcetc. ...but unless you be walking from village to village with a hand-carved pan flute, you're still contributing. 2.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about music. - my bass = wood cut from a virgin forest, loaded onto a large truck, shipped to a large industrial factory, run through a large, power consuming assembly line and coated with toxic, plastic-based pigments to make it a nice, shiny color. Then the electronics, consisting of various metals mined from the earth and shipped great distances are added and finally its placed in a shipping container and loaded onto a boat (btw, there are no fuel quality restrictions placed on intl shipping vessels, so that means that cargo ships burn the cheapest, dirtiest sludge that passes for oil and ergo end up being one of the biggest fucking polluters on this planet - why we do nothing about this pickle, mi no se... oh right, cheap foreign products...), shipped across the ocean and then driven to some store to be purchased with the expectation that every time the instrument is played, it'll be plugged into the wall, sucking juice from the grid. My laptop's even worse - just remember kids, outside of the carbon footprint involved, most electronics are assembled using close-to slave labor, in close contact with such substances as mercury and cadmium day in and day out - with the full on knowledge that if enough employees complain they'll either be replaced, or the company will simply pick up and relocate to another country with even less labor and environmental concerns. I hate to say it, but with the exception of maybe Damon's ergo basses and a couple other fancy one-offs, our instruments are all, erm, not so eco-friendly in their creation, etcetc. compound this notion with the carbon-addled woes of our previous caveat and yeah, our profession is pretty eco-damned. And yes, its true that we're better than some and worse than others, but shit, its still the same damn crime - which brings me to our last, and final point of the day. 3.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about humanity. - Self-explanatory. Somehow in the past 100 years, we've managed to adopt a lifestyle that is so far removed from an ideal, harmonious existence that we once shared with with our little spacerock that unfortunately, short of some sort of en masse utopian enlightenment on the part of about 6 billion people all coming together at once to make this world a better place, the only way we might ever be able go return to "equalization," if you will, is probably gonna be due to some sort of mass die-off caused by any number of apocalyptic scenarios continually looming on the horizon. sucks to that ass-mar, ja? so uhm, yah, there you have it. amazing thought to ponder over yr early morning coffee, right? btw, how y'all doing? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 4:10 AM, Brady Sharp wrote: > *... and I thought one of THESE would have been better for Ecto-touring... > > http://tinyurl.com/6k2ryo* > > Brady > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:55 AM, jacob felix heule wrote: > > > i don't know if this actually explains anything, but... > > http://flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/2456673835/in/set-72157604831982021/ > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Alee Karim wrote: > > > Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! > > > > -- > > http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix > > http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Sat May 3 08:57:58 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:57:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Solo Piece on Radio Nomad Message-ID: http://www.jourparjour.net/radio/daypieces/May/03/today.htm Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From 21grand at 21grand.org Sat May 3 15:20:58 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 15:20:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring Message-ID: The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the herd. sl Mr. Johns wrote: as the token eco-hippy of the lot, eh, i should probably weigh in. ... 2.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about music. From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Sat May 3 18:27:27 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 21:27:27 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: wow, from toyota corollas to advocating genocide in less than six posts... ...new record? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the > herd. > > sl > > Mr. Johns wrote: > as the token eco-hippy of the lot, eh, i should probably weigh in. > > ... > > 2.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about music. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Sun May 4 21:48:51 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 21:48:51 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring Message-ID: Who's advocating genocide? I'm merely stating that it would be better for the environment if fewer people were musicians. Instead of engaging in such a non-eco-friendly activity as music, they can take up much more eco-harmonious past-times such as being power sellers on ebay, segway polo players, mystery shoppers or synchronized swimmers. sl Travis taunted: wow, from toyota corollas to advocating genocide in less than six posts... ...new record? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the > herd. > > sl From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Mon May 5 00:38:40 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 03:38:40 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: fewer musicians, fewer people breathing, you know, easy confusation there... either way, most venues around the bay could use some more foliage - if only for the sole reason of absorbing the general carbon footprint caused by such acts as bad improvisation and general windbaggery... On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Who's advocating genocide? I'm merely stating that it would be better for > the environment if fewer people were musicians. Instead of engaging in such > a non-eco-friendly activity as music, they can take up much more > eco-harmonious past-times such as being power sellers on ebay, segway polo > players, mystery shoppers or synchronized swimmers. > > sl > > Travis taunted: > > wow, from toyota corollas to advocating genocide in less than six posts... > > ...new record? > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > wrote: > > The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the > > herd. > > > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Gino.Robair at penton.com Mon May 5 15:43:23 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:43:23 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) Message-ID: Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that Pauline Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and really open some ears. Win-only and wma quality... From bradysharp at gmail.com Mon May 5 18:17:17 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:17:17 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and they all noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, which is about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). They looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the other side, enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to see their show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, and they flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large virtual orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars gyrating on each other. So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw scheduled to play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng down the road! Brady On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of > touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > > Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but > now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that > Pauline > Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) > will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and > really > open some ears. > > Win-only and wma quality... > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Mon May 5 18:31:01 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sounds interesting. I want to learn more about it. Playing outside the Bay Area with my own double bass seems like a thing of the past, so internet performances could be one way to over come it. Dresser was talking about various collaborations he is doing over the internet. On May 5, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Brady Sharp wrote: > A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and > they all > noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, > which is > about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). > They > looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the > other side, > enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to > see their > show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw > nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, > and they > flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large > virtual > orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars > gyrating > on each other. > > So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw > scheduled to > play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng > down the > road! > > > Brady > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino > wrote: > >> Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of >> touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: >> >> http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html >> >> Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time >> already, but >> now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that >> Pauline >> Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 >> performances) >> will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and >> really >> open some ears. >> >> Win-only and wma quality... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From jon_raskin at yahoo.com Mon May 5 19:33:25 2008 From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (jon_raskin at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 02:33:25 +0000 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <865932511-1210041182-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-582206935-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sounds like the 70's south of market Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Brady Sharp" Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:17:17 To:"Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and they all noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, which is about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). They looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the other side, enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to see their show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, and they flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large virtual orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars gyrating on each other. So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw scheduled to play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng down the road! Brady On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of > touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > > Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but > now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that > Pauline > Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) > will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and > really > open some ears. > > Win-only and wma quality... > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From djcypod at gmail.com Mon May 5 22:45:56 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:45:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: <865932511-1210041182-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-582206935-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <865932511-1210041182-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-582206935-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I little while back I played this festival in Romania over the net with these fellows: http://www.netpd.org/About getting plugged into second life, I think is roughly the same difficulty as setting up a winamp stream? I always thought it would be fun to ride bicycles to the albany bulb and have a renegade session out there among the detritus of past generations. for further away gigs there is always trains, that would probably be a little more eco-friendly than driving cross country in a hummer? summers around the corner, you could always take your violin, recorder, guitar, *, etc... on a little hike to listen to and be heard by nature. I second the idea of foliage for new music venues! Years before I ever got to play the luggage store, I covertly cultivated a few small shrubs on top of the galleries roof. * I think you need a special permit to take a bugle out there. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:33 PM, wrote: > Sounds like the 70's south of market > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Brady Sharp" > > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:17:17 > To:"Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) > > > A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and they all > noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, which is > about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). They > looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the other side, > enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to see their > show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw > nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, and they > flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large virtual > orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars gyrating > on each other. > > So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw scheduled to > play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng down the > road! > > > Brady > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > > > Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of > > touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > > > > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > > > > Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but > > now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that > > Pauline > > Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) > > will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and > > really > > open some ears. > > > > Win-only and wma quality... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From michaelz at zoka.com Tue May 6 09:45:23 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:45:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/5/08, Robair, Gino wrote: >Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of >touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > >http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > >Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but >now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. The illustration looks suspiciously like Shoreline Ampthitheatre. You'd think the Canadians would have picked a better real-world basis for their venue (unless it's just because of the circus-like atmosphere of the structure. . .). >Maybe that'll mean that Pauline >Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) >will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and really >open some ears. Speaking of Radiohead, you know about their "green tour" commitment this year, yes? >Win-only and wma quality... That figures. And with regard to Brady's Second Life story -- I noticed this in the virtual-vancouver.com FAQ: >Q. How do I get naked? >It's easy! Click the "Naked" button located bottom center on your >viewer. To put your clothes back on simply click the "Dress" button >located in the same area. Only VIP members can get naked. MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From ie at allwaysnorth.com Tue May 6 12:11:26 2008 From: ie at allwaysnorth.com (Cheryl Leonard) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:11:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] music and prayer collaboration with visiting German composer Message-ID: <39C04928-1BA0-11DD-B156-000A956C45F8@allwaysnorth.com> Hello all, My friend, German composer/improviser Anka Draugelates, is doing a residency right now at the Djerassi Resident Artists Program (down on the peninsula near Woodside). She wants to develop some pieces that combine traditional prayer with experimental (or whatever we are calling it these days) music. She's looking to find one or more people who would be interested in collaborating with her by praying out loud while she plays music. She is primarily a vocalist and violist. Any religion, any language is fine and it sounds like ideally she'd love to incorporate prayers from several different cultures. If anyone on this list is interested or knows other folks who might be, please email me and I will put you in touch with her. Anka is really fun and creative and she'd be great to work with. Plus you'd get to visit Djerassi which is a wild, beautiful place. Also, I don't think this would be a huge time commitment, as she is only here until the end of May. Cheryl ie at allwaysnorth.com From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Tue May 6 13:16:03 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:16:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Lookin' for a place to live Message-ID: <28ADCF45-6EFA-41E4-8A2F-B76F8F1B498C@matthewgoodheart.com> Hi folks- A quick non-musical note: I'm looking for a place to live starting some time this summer, and have always had the best luck word of mouth- Requirements: enough room for my piano, teach a few lessons a week , and easy access to UCB. . . If anyone knows/hears of anything, email me (off list) thanks mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From liz_abet at yahoo.com Wed May 7 09:24:50 2008 From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (lizabet) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] sublet Message-ID: <618830.49887.qm@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hey blisters, anyone know of someone who's looking for a sublet in june? my room's open and i'd love to find a person to offset the rent a bit. hit me offlist puhlease if anyone comes to mind. thanks! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Gino.Robair at penton.com Wed May 7 13:21:28 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:21:28 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Why yell obscenities at corporate rock bands on the radio when you can do it over the internet while they play... and for free! http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/deeprockdrive-a.html From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Wed May 7 14:38:32 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:38:32 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OR... We could step back, accept the fact that corporate affiliations aside, these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic inclinations and our time could be better spent focusing on ways of manifesting positive, constructive methods of bringing OUR art more to the forefront instead of being continually bitter that someone or something has more toys than we do. Lemons and lemonade and all that, you know? Also, yelling at corporate rock bands in the car - not a good idea in heavy traffic. Might I suggest some sort of communal mixtape exchange? On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Why yell obscenities at corporate rock bands on the radio when you can do it > over the internet while they play... and for free! > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/deeprockdrive-a.html > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Gino.Robair at penton.com Wed May 7 16:57:55 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:57:55 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: It's not that some have more toys, Travis. It's the corporate music machine that torque's my jaw. It's about the brainwashing that popular music is created for. And thanks for the Zen reminder, but I make lemonade every day. However, I reserve the right to rail against the kind of music that is made by globe-encompasing corporations in order to trick our kids (and dumb-ass adults) into buying more stuff. Witness the Hannah Montana guitar, effects pedals, strings, etc. Sure if they worked properly and stayed in tune, it would be a great way to get young girls to learn guitar. Sadly, they're mostly cheap toys, and it can frustrate a would-be player. I have kids and have witnessed this. So, while I agree that there are thinking/feeling humans that front bands, I know for a fact as a music-industry participant that many of the artists on the scene do NOT actually play the instruments on the recordings we hear on the radio. Engineers and MIDI programmers rule the day for anything destined for top-40 status, and even lead vocals are subbed out to someone who can actually sing (or, if the artist really has to sing, the tracks are tuned and tweaked to at least sound plausible). Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that "we" have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) Earlier, Travis wrote: OR... We could step back, accept the fact that corporate affiliations aside, these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic inclinations and our time could be better spent focusing on ways of manifesting positive, constructive methods of bringing OUR art more to the forefront instead of being continually bitter that someone or something has more toys than we do. Lemons and lemonade and all that, you know? Also, yelling at corporate rock bands in the car - not a good idea in heavy traffic. Might I suggest some sort of communal mixtape exchange? On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Why yell obscenities at corporate rock bands on the radio when you can do it > over the internet while they play... and for free! > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/deeprockdrive-a.html > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 7 17:24:24 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 17:24:24 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: I've suspected for years that Bjork is a furry ... sl Travis wrote: corporate affiliations aside, these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic inclinations From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Wed May 7 18:59:59 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:59:59 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ...or perhaps some sort of giant, mutated swan. But regardless, many thanks for raising some amazing points, Gino. I do have to admit that I sometimes feel that I've perhaps managed to tune out the brainwashing tactics of the general populous to a certain degree... perhaps a bit too well - which is undoubtedly a blessing and a curse, especially with regard to the age old saying "ignorance is bliss." And while it would be great to think that we, through our work and our art alone could very well make a difference in the grand scheme of corporate machinations, such, unless we happen to be the aforementioned furry, mutated swan or perhaps one of them Radioheads, might not have the capacity to stop the machine we're so adamantly raging against... a fact that I'm slowly becoming more and more aware of, especially in my current employ - namely being a substitute elementary school music teacher. It's actually quite sad - a good majority of the kids that I've had the pleasure of teaching honestly consider a high score on Guitar Hero to be comparable to that of competent musical training, let alone delving into the low-cost dribble sold at your typical retailers. I hate to say it, but the scene out there is pretty bad and the damage, unfortunately is horribly widespread... And while it may be a fools errand, I too am deeply concerned by the absolute evils of the current corpocracies, as well as the unmentionable horrors they've subjected on the younger generations of the world, all in the name of turning a quick buck. So I only wonder, if not for our own personal art and creativity, what all, or for that matter, what more or what else can we do to help subside the damage already done? In our collective case, I feel that in spite of my usual sarcasm and remarks uttered in the last couple of postings, we on this list may be in a better place than most to actually do something about this. I mean, seriously - we have the extreme luxury of being in close company with a great deal of folks who are not only legendary in our respective fields, but with the proper agenda, could be not just merely subversive in the eyes of the powers that be, but damn near INFLUENTIAL in steering a decent chunk of the corporate media purse-strings into doing something that is right and just as opposed to merely profit driven... and while it would be perhaps TOO optimistic to say that we and we alone could change the world, with the right agenda, outreaches and allegiances with other concerned groups, ya know, I think we very well could at least do SOMETHING... but again, this could just be my optimism rearing its ugly head yet again... But perhaps such optimism all around might not be a bad thing - at the end of my off-grid adventure in Colorado, I started doing a lot of reading on the personal accounts of various polar expeditions - extremely decent reading material, especially when you're waking up in a tent covered in snowdrift with a temperature that usually hovers somewhere around negative 13... Surprisingly enough, while each account differed, one of the constants of nearly every trek was the insistence on maintaining a constant positive attitude at all times. Granted, what we're up against is, erm, just a little different than taking a long walk on a glacier, I feel the same constant rings true for our situation. Regardless of our frustrations, simply expressing our anger and bitterness, while therapeutic, could also be seen as counterproductive - especially when we can instead use these frustrations to fuel creativity at the communal level and hell, if we're lucky, truly do something to counteract the sinister machinations of our damaged environs. Y'know, I think Yoda might have said something like this once... But anyhoo, just thought I'd weigh in - apologies for the diatribe to anyone whose just tuning in to this particular thread~ On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > I've suspected for years that Bjork is a furry ... > > sl > > Travis wrote: > corporate affiliations aside, > these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic > inclinations > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Thu May 8 01:12:37 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 01:12:37 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Gino Robair wrote: >>Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that "we" have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a lightning bug. I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list that are essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether it be "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our art (not to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are so musically/politically aware and active: How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages (proudly advertised in your email signatures)? I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where the resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking propagandists on the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because those are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If there are more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips about Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to join in on), has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as if somehow that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested in having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on My-Fucking Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic-Propaganda-Space.com). If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend request. Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs and... cash them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I know who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his Avengers CD's after he saw your page. You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest fascist pig bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? Or is it OK as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is active in Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many Green Party events, fundrasers, etc. He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because they have a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to get a web presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic imagination. I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm feeling angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated propaganda, there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the only "sane" people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because if Bush or Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug up my ass just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I don't watch TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy again: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews Poopagandaly yours, -MH From Gino.Robair at penton.com Thu May 8 09:37:52 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:37:52 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bug up his poopoganda Message-ID: Michael Henry wrote: <> You sure do! Wow -- that was a fun read over my morning scone. Right you are about the MySpace/Murdoch dilemma, although, frankly, he bought it -- he didn't start it. I don't think the service is inherently evil. Again, we could extend the Evil Empire thing to the telephone and cable wires we use for Web access, the cars we drive, the petrol we consume, etc. Even if I just sit here, I'm consuming elements in the air that could possibly have been in the lungs of someone even more sinister than Rupert. But I will say in MySpace's defense (not his) that I've been exposed to more interesting music in the last 2 years than in the last 10 through its portal, and have met many cool artists who I would never have been exposed to otherwise. Ignoring the concept of selecting "Friends" aside, it's been very useful for me, at least, in sending my sounds out of the Bay Area. Sometimes you have to dance with the devil. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu May 8 09:52:26 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:52:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bug up his poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ABD2322-F163-4A97-904D-86BAD05990B3@matthewgoodheart.com> On May 8, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Even if I just sit here, I'm consuming elements in the air that > could possibly have been in the lungs of someone even more sinister > than Rupert. This is why I stopped breathing regular air a long time ago: http://www.go2air.com/ As Gino points out, it's not just about health, but about morality. . . mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From bradysharp at gmail.com Thu May 8 10:28:33 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:28:33 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bug up his poopoganda In-Reply-To: <2ABD2322-F163-4A97-904D-86BAD05990B3@matthewgoodheart.com> References: <2ABD2322-F163-4A97-904D-86BAD05990B3@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: Hmmm...Bottled air... I guess health and the environment go hand in hand as far as air pollution goes, but bottled air seems like a dichotomy to me, as in how much does it impact the environment and hence foul the air at large, just to get a few cubits of good air into a pressurized container? Is it made of plastic? Does it use CFCs? Transportation environmental costs? Maybe Monsanto can buy them out, decrease the environmental hazard-to-benefit ratio, and produce Bigger, Better Air for Everyone! (ducks for cover!) Brady On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Matthew Goodheart < matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote: > On May 8, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Robair, Gino wrote: > > > Even if I just sit here, I'm consuming elements in the air that > > could possibly have been in the lungs of someone even more sinister > > than Rupert. > > > This is why I stopped breathing regular air a long time ago: > > http://www.go2air.com/ > > As Gino points out, it's not just about health, but about morality. . . > > mg > > > > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From michaelz at zoka.com Thu May 8 10:59:23 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:59:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/8/08, Michael Henry wrote: >And one more thing....I read earlier today that >Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had >better post some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy >again: > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa Rupert has another reason to be worried today: Microsoft is thinking about a buyout of Facebook, the chief competitor of MySpace. On the lighter side, take a listen to Harry Shearer biting the hand that feeds him (via The Simpsons on Fox TV), in this fictional promo for "Rupert - The Sitcom": or (scroll to 31:23) MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 8 11:05:00 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:05:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Uh-oh. It wasn't enough that music making is contributing to global warming. Now having a myspace page means that I'm supporting Rupert (fucking) Murdoch's homophobic, racist, fascist, corporate military-industrial complex? If someone gives me a ride, and they drive a volkswagen, does that mean I'm a nazi supporter? If you want to encourage global change, it has to be in the range of things that average people can and will do. People can change their lightbulbs, use more efficient cars and appliances, recycle, drastically reduce the amount of plastic bags/styrofoam they use, etc. That stuff is easy, and I think you could realistically get a sizeable chunk of Americans to change those habits. But here on the left that's not enough. When you tell people they have to drive 20 extra miles to the 'green' grocery, avoid anything that's made of plastic or precious metal, live in a cave, wear only hemp, etc, that's when most most reasonable people throw up their arms and go back to their SUV's, air conditioners and big macs. Sure you might get the leftest 0.5% of people to change, but that's not *really* making a big difference, is it? Matt On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Gino Robair wrote: > > > >>Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and > "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that > "we" > have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music > equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. > It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And > getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) > > > I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. > > Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a lightning bug. > > I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list that are > essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether it be > "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. > > You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil > corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our art (not > to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. > > Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are so > musically/politically aware and active: > > How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages (proudly > advertised in your email signatures)? > > I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where the > resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking propagandists on > the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just > cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns > My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because those > are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If there are > more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. > > I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips about > Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to join in on), > has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as if somehow > that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. > > Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous > anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested in > having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on My-Fucking > Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic-Propaganda-Space.com). > If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend request. > Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs and... cash > them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right to their > beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." > > > http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 > > Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I know > who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his Avengers CD's > after he saw your page. > > You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. > Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in > history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest fascist pig > bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? Or is it OK > as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? > > Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is active in > Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many Green Party > events, fundrasers, etc. > > He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because they have > a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to get a web > presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." > > I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic > imagination. > > I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm feeling > angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated propaganda, > there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the only "sane" > people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because if Bush or > Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. > > So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their > My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com > presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug up my ass > just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I don't watch > TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my > trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. > > And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is > getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more stuff to his > site in order to make him happy again: > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews > > Poopagandaly yours, > > -MH > From phil at philipgelb.com Thu May 8 11:16:25 2008 From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D3D647A-9DAB-4EA8-AB11-88D818917926@philipgelb.com> most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for them! it is not fun to realize how much of our lives is controlled by evil coporations and how much of our daily lives contributes to horrible things and in many ways, makes life a living hell for others and forget about its impact on future generations. yeah, i have myspace sites and i hate contributing to murdoch but as Gino pointed out, i have benefited greatly from being on myspace thanks to the connections made and music i have heard. A radical change in lifestyle is necessary if we care about having any planet decades from now, let alone centuries. If that is inconvenient for some, well, not much choice but to deal with it. If we do not change things that is simply a way of telling others, "fuck you, i do not care if my life is making yours difficult" :) few americans are willing to give up their gas, plastic and meat even when they become educated about what is going on. ok, enough for my rant :) phil Philip Gelb vegetarian chef shakuhachi player, teacher phil at philipgelb.com http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb On May 8, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Uh-oh. It wasn't enough that music making is contributing to global > warming. > Now having a myspace page means that I'm supporting Rupert (fucking) > Murdoch's homophobic, racist, fascist, corporate military-industrial > complex? > > If someone gives me a ride, and they drive a volkswagen, does that > mean I'm > a nazi supporter? > > If you want to encourage global change, it has to be in the range > of things > that average people can and will do. People can change their > lightbulbs, use > more efficient cars and appliances, recycle, drastically reduce the > amount > of plastic bags/styrofoam they use, etc. That stuff is easy, and I > think you > could realistically get a sizeable chunk of Americans to change those > habits. > > But here on the left that's not enough. When you tell people they > have to > drive 20 extra miles to the 'green' grocery, avoid anything that's > made of > plastic or precious metal, live in a cave, wear only hemp, etc, > that's when > most most reasonable people throw up their arms and go back to > their SUV's, > air conditioners and big macs. Sure you might get the leftest 0.5% > of people > to change, but that's not *really* making a big difference, is it? > > Matt > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Michael Henry > > wrote: > >> >> Gino Robair wrote: >> >> >>>> Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and >> "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact >> that >> "we" >> have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to >> the music >> equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as >> an artist. >> It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, >> mister. And >> getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) >> >> >> I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. >> >> Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a >> lightning bug. >> >> I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list >> that are >> essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether >> it be >> "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. >> >> You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil >> corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our >> art (not >> to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. >> >> Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who >> are so >> musically/politically aware and active: >> >> How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages >> (proudly >> advertised in your email signatures)? >> >> I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site >> where the >> resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking >> propagandists on >> the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just >> cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns >> My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? >> Because those >> are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If >> there are >> more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. >> >> I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips >> about >> Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to >> join in on), >> has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as >> if somehow >> that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. >> >> Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous >> anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not >> interested in >> having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on >> My-Fucking >> Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic- >> Propaganda-Space.com). >> If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend >> request. >> Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs >> and... cash >> them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right >> to their >> beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." >> >> >> http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm? >> fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 >> >> Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think >> I know >> who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his >> Avengers CD's >> after he saw your page. >> >> You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. >> Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist >> pigs in >> history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest >> fascist pig >> bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? >> Or is it OK >> as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? >> >> Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is >> active in >> Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many >> Green Party >> events, fundrasers, etc. >> >> He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because >> they have >> a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to >> get a web >> presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." >> >> I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic >> imagination. >> >> I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm >> feeling >> angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated >> propaganda, >> there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the >> only "sane" >> people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because >> if Bush or >> Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. >> >> So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their >> My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com >> presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug >> up my ass >> just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I >> don't watch >> TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my >> trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. >> >> And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking- >> Murdoch is >> getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more >> stuff to his >> site in order to make him happy again: >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa? >> gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews >> >> Poopagandaly yours, >> >> -MH >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From weaselw at juno.com Thu May 8 11:24:28 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:24:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being complacent. ww On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb writes: > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > them! From polly.moller at gmail.com Thu May 8 11:27:12 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:27:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40805081127w532f0facpb374c3a5d651c242@mail.gmail.com> Americans don't have any ideology. We're just RIGHT. ;) P. On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:24 AM, weasel walter wrote: > come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being > complacent. > > ww > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb > writes: > > > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > > them! > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 8 11:27:47 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:27:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: Right! Well, with that understanding, we can either create solutions that can be worked into a complacent American lifestyle, or we can continue to get upset that Americans aren't making rapid sudden changes to their habits. Ok, this is way off topic, so that's the last I'll say on the subject. Matt On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:24 AM, weasel walter wrote: > come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being > complacent. > > ww > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb > writes: > > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > > them! > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 11:50:14 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 11:50:14 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: You're giving Americans too much special-snowflake status ... It's part of the human condition ... In different countries, people are complacent about different things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. sl Weasel wrote: come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being complacent. ww On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb writes: > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > them! From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 12:02:44 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:02:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: The other option is increased government regulation - forcing people to change - I'm still traumatized by all the recent regulations about what you can and can't take on an airplane. I haven't been on an airpline since 2000. But it is an example of the American government forcing people to change their habits. Personally, I think the green/eco-movement is going to be the next bubble economy, replacing the real estate bubble, which replaced the dot-com bubble. I'm "looking forward" to seeing corporations and governments funding, what will be in hindsight, ludicrous ideas and projects that are based in bad science or are obviously ineffective. sl Matt suggested: Right! Well, with that understanding, we can either create solutions that can be worked into a complacent American lifestyle, or we can continue to get upset that Americans aren't making rapid sudden changes to their habits. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu May 8 12:13:00 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:13:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm a little late to the discussion, and not much time to participate - but Mr. Henry's rant is well taken. Some thoughts: 1) I sort of view artists as parasites on the corporate structure - Murdoch will pay for my site, then great. I don't think he's getting much benefit from my page, certainly its out of proportion from the benefit I get from it. To quote Lenin, "The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." 2) Doesn't the revenue come from ads? Does anyone actually pay attention to internet ads? I know I don't even read them, I couldn't even tell you what ads are on the sites I look at; to me, at least, internet advertising is a joke. . . my guess is that the few folks who pay any attention to what I'm doing aren't too influenced by them either. 3) Because of #2, my guess is that many of these places will collapse at some point, since the revenue generated by the ads will not support the required profit margin. Then it will probably all go away, replaced by something with much more corporate control over content and forcing people to view the ads in a more controlled manner - maybe the 2 (or 3 or 4) tier internet thing.  Right now, I feel like we're in a little blip where things are getting figured out, and that type of thing historically means there's some brief breathing room for weirdos like me and y'all. 4) The question is not whether you "sell out" to Murdoch or whomever, it's how you pitch your battles. Isolation doesn't always seem so effective to me either - that was what led to my decision to do "myspace" at least. I could opt out of the system I think also helps propagate surface listening; to quote the Unabomber: "Cheap, intemperate propaganda sometimes achieves impressive short-term goals, but it will be more advantageous in the long run to keep the loyalty of a small number of intelligently committed people." Although: 5) I'm not of the opinion that mere exposure to alternative art changes anything at all - rather it affects those that seek to be affected by it: to quote Jesus: "He who has ears, let him hear." Teaching, advocating, giving money to micro-loan programs in 3rd world countries, these have a much greater effect than any work of art. That said, works of prophetic art are important, but that's another discussion. > In different countries, people are complacent about different > things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to > kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. Don't forget murdering your sister because she had sex! mg On May 8, 2008, at 1:12 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Gino Robair wrote: > > >>> Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and > "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact > that "we" > have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the > music > equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an > artist. > It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, > mister. And > getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) > > > I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. > > Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a > lightning bug. > > I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list > that are essentially about some sort political-musical connection, > whether it be "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. > > You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil > corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our > art (not to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. > > Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are > so musically/politically aware and active: > > How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages > (proudly advertised in your email signatures)? > > I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where > the resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking > propagandists on the fucking planet. I really would really like to > know.....is it just cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns My- > Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because > those are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. > If there are more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like > to hear them. > > I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips > about Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy > to join in on), has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on > MySpace" as if somehow that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. > > Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous > anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested > in having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on > My-Fucking Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic- > Propaganda-Space.com). If you consider yourself one of these please > DO NOT send a friend request. Also anyone who voted for Bush can > just take their Avengers CDs and... cash them in at the used record > store, right now. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and everyone > has a right to choose their friends." > > http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 > > Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I > know who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his > Avengers CD's after he saw your page. > > You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. Rupert- > Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in > history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest > fascist pig bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site > he owns? Or is it OK as long as the fascist pig gives you some of > his gruel in return? > > Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is > active in Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at > many Green Party events, fundrasers, etc. > > He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because > they have a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really > need to get a web presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be > obligatory." > > I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your > artistic imagination. > > I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm > feeling angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and > associated propaganda, there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or > if it is that the only "sane" people left are the ones that society > labels as "insane." Because if Bush or Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm > definitely not. > > So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their My- > Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com > presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug > up my ass just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with > and I don't watch TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and > despite my age, my trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a > nanosecond. > > And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking- > Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had better post > some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy again: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews > > Poopagandaly yours, > > -MH > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu May 8 12:36:55 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:36:55 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A7EFFF7-FC5C-40D6-A325-9AE173E3E470@balancepointacoustics.com> The bulk of the change has to come from big industries and even governments. Most small changes we personally can make are only about making ourselves feel smug or worse: buying into one of the many scams to make a buck with the the words "green" or "eco" in front of it. We need to keep in mind there is a pile of money to be made on both sides of the issue and both sides have a complex agenda to push. Living in western society is bad for the environment and using electricity is one of the worst things you can do for it. Also, myspace is not evil. It is a good service that makes them a pile of money by helping others. Much like an ipod, an artwork or piece of music a myspace page is only as good or bad as it's content. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From gcremaschi at hotmail.com Thu May 8 12:57:42 2008 From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:57:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> In different countries, people are complacent about different >> things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to >> kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. Hmm - I guess those are the choices, huh? There really isn't anything in the middle? -George _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008 From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu May 8 13:03:25 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:03:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <5A7EFFF7-FC5C-40D6-A325-9AE173E3E470@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <5A7EFFF7-FC5C-40D6-A325-9AE173E3E470@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: On May 8, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Damon Smith wrote: > The bulk of the change has to come from big industries and even > governments. Most small changes we personally can make are only about > making ourselves feel smug or worse: buying into one of the many > scams to make a buck with the the words "green" or "eco" in front of > it. This makes sense in general, but there are a few personal changes that, when understood in their proper place, are not so bad. I read up a bit on the "terrapass" phenominon- the carbon offsets one can buy for their cars. It was a pretty detailed article by some climate scientists (which as far as I could tell were not paid by any industry), who analyzed the whole thing and ultimately concluded that if you buy one from a group that produces electricity (solar/wind) and then sells it back to the grid, it's not a bad stop-gap measure while we press for more concrete systemic measures. That is, understanding that it wouldn't work if every car in America suddenly started to do it, that it's NOT a solution, and that companies which sell "tree planting" as a carbon offset are bogus. I haven't looked into it lately, maybe others have seen stuff that say it's all completely bogus? mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 13:13:29 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:13:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Well of course there are things in the middle ... I was just trying to argue that complacency isn't unique to Americans, and honestly, there are far worse things to be complacent about. However, I think people are generally prone to complacency, if they can. I'm sure Damon can give examples from his experience with the US Postal Service. sl George C chided: >> In different countries, people are complacent about different >> things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to >> kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. Hmm - I guess those are the choices, huh? There really isn't anything in the middle? -George From aliciabyer at gmail.com Thu May 8 13:24:09 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:24:09 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48236169.3030208@gmail.com> Somebody needs to make an open-source version of myspace with no ads, or just ads for 'good' things that can help run the project. Why hasn't it been done yet? Doesn't look like the profile-connected-to-profile thing is too complicated to me.. maybe I just don't know. But open-source stuff seems to catch on, and with the current "I want to wash my hands of American guilt" trend, it seems like a lot of myspace/facebookers actually would switch to an open-source project. Personally, I was pretty shocked when it seemed like 75% of people under 30 seemed to jump onto myspace in a single bound... -alicia Michael Henry wrote: > Gino Robair wrote: > > > >>> Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and >>> > "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that "we" > have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music > equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. > It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And > getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) > > > I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. > > Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a lightning bug. > > I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list that are essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether it be "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. > > You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our art (not to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. > > Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are so musically/politically aware and active: > > How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages (proudly advertised in your email signatures)? > > I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where the resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking propagandists on the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because those are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If there are more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. > > I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips about Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to join in on), has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as if somehow that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. > > Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested in having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on My-Fucking Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic-Propaganda-Space.com). If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend request. Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs and... cash them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." > > http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 > > Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I know who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his Avengers CD's after he saw your page. > > You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest fascist pig bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? Or is it OK as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? > > Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is active in Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many Green Party events, fundrasers, etc. > > He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because they have a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to get a web presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." > > I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic imagination. > > I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm feeling angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated propaganda, there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the only "sane" people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because if Bush or Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. > > So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug up my ass just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I don't watch TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. > > And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy again: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews > > Poopagandaly yours, > > -MH > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From jfheule at gmail.com Thu May 8 14:14:29 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:14:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <48236169.3030208@gmail.com> References: <48236169.3030208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805081414x106c9164ibb217ead493dd615@mail.gmail.com> http://virb.com/ but not enough people know it about it or use it, so i don't bother myspace is a pretty shitty thing, from the nefarious ideology of its owner to the terrible non-functioning interface, but i endure these things because i think i benefit a lot from participating in it. choosing my battles. kind of like how touring in a corolla is better than touring in a huge van, but it's still burning up around 300 gallons of gas in 3 weeks. jacob On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > Somebody needs to make an open-source version of myspace with no ads, or > just ads for 'good' things that can help run the project. Why hasn't it > been done yet? Doesn't look like the profile-connected-to-profile thing > is too complicated to me.. maybe I just don't know. -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Thu May 8 15:21:38 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:21:38 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gino Robair wrote: <> >>You sure do! Wow -- that was a fun read over my morning scone. Right you are >>about the MySpace/Murdoch dilemma, although, frankly, he bought it -- he >>didn't start it. I don't think the service is inherently evil. Yes, I do indeed have a bug up there. Still. But I'm glad you enjoyed my bug with your scone ;-) I fail to see what difference if makes that Murdoch didn't start MySpace. The fact is that he owns it now, and the revenue (which BTW, is quite significant...the Guardian piece says that that division of his evil empire netted him $1 billion over the past year...so indeed Matthew, people are clicking on those banner ads), goes to his pockets and directly or not, it supports the propaganda that his media empire spews. It's not just the question of having a presence there that bothers me -- it's more the hypocrisy of the many so-called left-leaning folks (such as The Avengers) that really gets that bug up my ass. Touting your anti-establishment, anti-corporate, anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-capitalist, anti-whatever credentials while you are driving money right into the pockets of the poster child for all that you are against. If the Avengers, or whoever said that they just don't give a shit about politics, that would be one thing. But to claim that you do care and are against fascism in all of its forms and then support such a fascist with your art? (I'm particularly still picking on the Avengers here, not you Gino, as they go out of their way to wear their anti-establishment moniker on their shirt-sleeves ) Well....that in my book amounts to either stupidity (cluelessness) or hypocrisy. Take your pick. I respectively disagree with you on the issue of the inherent evilness. If Hitler came back from the grave and bought MySpace would you still have page there? Besides, I think the MySpace's 15 minutes is up (as the Guardian piece seems to suggest). Seems like a pretty lame place to me whenever I do go there -- which admittedly is not very often, since I avoid it like the plague. I usually feel like I need to wash my hands after visiting to remove the fecal matter that has come through my internet's tubes. Politics aside, with so many other options available, I fail to see why someone would want to have a page on MySpace, trying to scream in the wind amongst the other gazillions of lemmings there that are screaming in the wind (which is not to say I have anything against screaming). -MH P.S. I want to be clear that I'm not picking on any particular folks here. I just wanted to know what reasoning you MySpacers could offer to justify your presence there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear any convincing reasons. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 8 15:40:19 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:40:19 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael Henry was like: > P.S. I want to be clear that I'm not picking on any particular folks here. > I just wanted to know what reasoning you MySpacers could offer to justify > your presence there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear any convincing > reasons. As someone who works at a music series, I'm actually pretty glad myspace is there, because it allows musicians and bands to have a rudimentary 'website' and 'demo tape' online. That's pretty useful to me. Much better than trying to solicit a bio from musicians, and then determine from that whether they're fit for the music series. Sure, sites other than myspace can do the same thing, so if all the tools/features/connection speeds are there I don't see a reason why myspace is particularly better. However, you could argue that all the folks on myspace are putting out fewer demo cd-r's - less pollution. Matt From Gino.Robair at penton.com Thu May 8 15:41:27 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 17:41:27 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Michael wrote: <> Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. <> Wire says so too. But tell that to the millions that sign up every day overseas! For those of us who want to network with people in other countries, MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about trendiness. <> To the visitor, sure. But again, I've met some really great people there, have gotten gigs through it, have given people gigs through it, etc. <> The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among many. My wind-screaming has been pretty successful when you look at cash outlay ($0) against the results (far greater than $0). And, luckily, I've made some real friends through it. Friendships that will outlive Murdoch's ownership of MySpace (and probably his life). My daughters favorite quote this week: "Join the Dark Side: we have cookies!" From miltnerunit at gmail.com Thu May 8 15:59:29 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:59:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. I for one am getting pretty tired of chasing today's 'myspace' or 'facebook' or whatever, and I am betting that other musical weirdos worldwide feel the same. Is switching to some other community space really worth the effort? it better be a whole LOT better than myspace music to go to the trouble of doing that. For me, the less time I spend on web stuff and the more on making music, the better...this is why personal websites are a little less popular. why re-invent the wheel? and why have to maintain more than one site? i just want people to have somewhere to go if they need to look me up. okay, done. myspace music gets a solid B+ for ease of use by impatient people like myself. So i'm done with it, and i can get back to actual music-making, which is the whole reason my myspace music page is there in the first place. Myspace is SO last week...it's owned by Rupert and it's full of ads....okay well, maybe it's pessimistic, but i see a pattern here, and I feel it's just a matter of time before the latest and coolest global community space -- maybe it's ad free, maybe the servers are powered by algae, whatever -- will get big, and they will have to feed the thing, and then the company mentality changes, and ads go up there, and so on and so on... k On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Michael wrote: > < If > Hitler came back from the grave and bought MySpace would you still have > page > there?>> > > Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. > > > < seems to suggest).>> > > Wire says so too. But tell that to the millions that sign up every day > overseas! For those of us who want to network with people in other > countries, MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about > trendiness. > > <> > > To the visitor, sure. But again, I've met some really great people there, > have gotten gigs through it, have given people gigs through it, etc. > > > < someone would want to have a page on MySpace, trying to scream in the wind > amongst the other gazillions of lemmings there that are screaming in the > wind (which is not to say I have anything against screaming).>> > > The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. > The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. > > But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's > just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among > many. > My wind-screaming has been pretty successful when you look at cash outlay > ($0) against the results (far greater than $0). And, luckily, I've made > some > real friends through it. Friendships that will outlive Murdoch's ownership > of MySpace (and probably his life). > > My daughters favorite quote this week: "Join the Dark Side: we have > cookies!" > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From weaselw at juno.com Thu May 8 16:00:21 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:00:21 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) Message-ID: <20080508.160043.7292.62.weaselw@juno.com> on the eco-friendly tip, if anybody has spare bubble mailers of any and all sizes (the ones with bubble wrap inside, NOT the recyled shredded paper material), i would be more than glad to take them off your hands and recycle them. i go through a ton of these doing mail order and i can use as few or as many as anybody wants to give me. please let me know. thanks, ww Weasel Walter http://nowave.pair.com From lx.rudis at gmail.com Thu May 8 16:10:11 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:10:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7272233a0805081610t77a577afu4318ab592c413121@mail.gmail.com> gino: > But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's > just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among > many. > agreed. but there are lots of ways to use myspace - i'm still getting friend requests even though i've yanked all my content down from there. i recently began working with one of those Balkan State web upstarts which seek to steal myspace's thunder - it just makes sense that i do so, since most of the types i hang with are already pretty tired of myspace. i feel there's a bit of a neuskool cachet to dissing myspace - increasingly i get emails from within it which state "if you want to continue talking with me, here's my email address...". end result is that i continue my conversations and collaborations without myspace mediating me, but i keep a minimal presence there so that i'm easily pinged. and i'm having _much more fun_ at other URLs. ...i mean, this stuff is about discovery and experimentation, right? [don't answer that, i'm in too good a mood right now] gino's kid said: > cookies!" again, i agree, both with the humor and sentiment. and i'd like mine to have tasty chocolate bits in them, please. :D > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From aliciabyer at gmail.com Thu May 8 19:21:26 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 19:21:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> Yeah, I don't use myspace either for the same reasons. I basically quit after Murdoch bought it, but I still kinda wish we could make use of the internet for music in some more significant way than individual websites. The geeky people that developed the internet intentionally kept it decentralized to keep it out of the hands of the authorities. So, you can still access every page on the internet with equal ease (unless you live in those countries that have national firewalls?), which is pretty much unheard of in the history of information access. I've always found this kinda interesting and to have a lot of potential, but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting endless videos of their retarded cats. -alicia kristin miltner wrote: >>> The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. >>> > > I for one am getting pretty tired of chasing today's 'myspace' or 'facebook' > or whatever, and I am betting that other musical weirdos worldwide feel the > same. Is switching to some other community space really worth the effort? it > better be a whole LOT better than myspace music to go to the trouble of > doing that. For me, the less time I spend on web stuff and the more on > making music, the better...this is why personal websites are a little less > popular. why re-invent the wheel? and why have to maintain more than one > site? i just want people to have somewhere to go if they need to look me up. > okay, done. > > myspace music gets a solid B+ for ease of use by impatient people like > myself. So i'm done with it, and i can get back to actual music-making, > which is the whole reason my myspace music page is there in the first place. > > > > Myspace is SO last week...it's owned by Rupert and it's full of ads....okay > well, maybe it's pessimistic, but i see a pattern here, and I feel it's just > a matter of time before the latest and coolest global community space -- > maybe it's ad free, maybe the servers are powered by algae, whatever -- will > get big, and they will have to feed the thing, and then the company > mentality changes, and ads go up there, and so on and so on... > > > k > > > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > > >> Michael wrote: >> <> If >> Hitler came back from the grave and bought MySpace would you still have >> page >> there?>> >> >> Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. >> >> >> <> seems to suggest).>> >> >> Wire says so too. But tell that to the millions that sign up every day >> overseas! For those of us who want to network with people in other >> countries, MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about >> trendiness. >> >> <> >> >> To the visitor, sure. But again, I've met some really great people there, >> have gotten gigs through it, have given people gigs through it, etc. >> >> >> <> someone would want to have a page on MySpace, trying to scream in the wind >> amongst the other gazillions of lemmings there that are screaming in the >> wind (which is not to say I have anything against screaming).>> >> >> The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. >> The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. >> >> But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's >> just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among >> many. >> My wind-screaming has been pretty successful when you look at cash outlay >> ($0) against the results (far greater than $0). And, luckily, I've made >> some >> real friends through it. Friendships that will outlive Murdoch's ownership >> of MySpace (and probably his life). >> >> My daughters favorite quote this week: "Join the Dark Side: we have >> cookies!" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> > > > > From olorin at lmi.net Thu May 8 21:56:51 2008 From: olorin at lmi.net (olorin at lmi.net) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 21:56:51 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] myspace poop Message-ID: <20080508215651.1b87b65ygw4ks84k@webmail.lmi.net> wow - interesting discussion here. let me examine the myspace/fascism dilemma for a moment. the issue here is basically one of broadcasting. people are on myspace not only because it's convenient to have a web presence there but because lots of other people are on the website who will see your profile and perhaps buy your stuff or give you gigs. some of the music is awesome, much of it is total crap, but everyone is there because it's THE thing to do. so how do you wean folks off of a fascist-owned music site which is awfully convenient for folks to use (though slow as molasses) and serves a lot more like a tool to subvert the dominant paradigm than specifically a way for RM to rake in more $$? answer - it's not going to be easy. there are alternatives - try www.virb.com, nice looking, skinnable (i think) and fast response but practically nobody knows about them at the moment. it could work as a myspace replacement functionally speaking, but it's missing all the manpower - all the artists checking things out hoping to be checked out - which unfortunately is the best reason to stay on myspace for now - at least until, lemming like, everybody abandons ship and goes to the next 'cool' site that's the buzzword of the month. i agree, an open source myspace would be something more politically in line and it might happen in the not-too-distant future. right now billions of people are benefitting from open source databases and software being used constantly for free on millions of websites so it's certainly possible. one called Mugshot has been up for a few years at this point www.mugshot.org. i don't think it's specifically music related, more of an aggregator for coordinating information between multiple existing sites like myspace, facebook, etc. it is open source however. anyway, my .02 at this point. scott From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 22:48:39 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 22:48:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Wait, are the cats retarded or are the videos retarded, and the cats "normal"? Besides the psycho singing cat video (posted a few months ago), all the cat videos I've seen have cats that seem normal. sl Alicia wrote: but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting endless videos of their retarded cats. From aliciabyer at gmail.com Thu May 8 22:58:11 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 22:58:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4823E7F3.7080400@gmail.com> I dunno, I've seen lots of crazy cats. I was gonna put 'cats on drugs' but that's kind of messed up. maybe I just click on the messed up stuff. -alicia Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Wait, are the cats retarded or are the videos retarded, and the cats > "normal"? Besides the psycho singing cat video (posted a few months ago), > all the cat videos I've seen have cats that seem normal. > > sl > > Alicia wrote: > but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting > endless videos of their retarded cats. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 00:32:42 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 00:32:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Gino wrote (re: my buggy-ass Hitler analogy): >>Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. I quote from your previous message "Sometimes you have to dance with the devil." So please correct me if I am misinterpreting you.....does that mean that you wouldn't mind dancing with Hitler (as long as he provided free hosting services for you)? I didn't expect you (or anyone) to take any "bait" because I am not baiting any hooks. Rupert may not be in the same league as Hitler. But that doesn't necessarily imply that his league is minor. >>MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about trendiness. Neither am I. "Trendiness" is a good word to employe here. It describes the secondary reason I (try to) avoid even glancing at someone's MySpace page (the first being that any eyeballs there support Murdoch's fascist empire, either directly or indirectly) >>The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. Really? I would hasten to disagree here. Why even bother with any such any corporate- blood-sucking entity? Punk was (supposedly) about DIY. Some new music too. "Balkanized"? So what? I really regret to inform you of this, but the "new music community" (however you define it) is already Balkanized (capital "B"). And it has been for some time now. Really, since the 50's, 60's or perhaps even earlier. Maybe it has always been that way. Just take someone....let's say, the ever-so-pithy Kyle Gann for example, with his endless rantings on the the whole uptown vs. downtown composers (or just plain posers) tirade (and boy, is that tired.....). Talk about your "Balkanization.'.....(I'm imagining The Who, "Talking bout my Balkination") Look, I'm all for "musical weirdos worldwide" (MWW - great name for a group, thank you), but in my view there is nothing weird about MySpace other than the mystifying weirdness of why anyone would want to go there and stare at puke-inducing banner adds while spending innumerable hours sorting through tons of lame-ass chaff in order to find the wheat, all while Rupert Murdoch watches his bank account balance skyrocket as he sips a glass of fine wine (Chateau Petrus no doubt at $28,550 a bottle) poured by a young boy wearing a toga. Sorry, but this is exaclty what is "too much for my tastes." Even if your daughter does offer me the most scrumptiously delicious cookies that were ever baked. ;-) I'll just sum up by saying that most of the pro-MySpace arguments about this issue have seemed to amount to "well, yeah I know he's a fascist, but...." Excuses masquerading as reasons. In other words, it's free, it's easy, etc. so I can overlook the rest. I have a problem with that. But then that's just me. Thanks for the honest response to the question I posed, but I think I'll continue to be vigilant in my efforts to stay away from My-fucking-Rupert Murdoch-space.com. Even if your daughter make her incredibly delightful cookies from the "Dark Side" available there. BTW, are those cookies vegan? -MH From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 00:52:46 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 00:52:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Damon Smith wrote: >> It (MySpace) is a good service that makes them a pile of money by helping others. Really. By "them" do you mean Rupert Murdoch's $1 billion pile-of-money in profit? Aiding the diseemination of Fox nooze propaganda is a "good service"? Who these "others" being helped? That is, other than Murdoch and his shareholders? Slay me. -MH From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri May 9 03:01:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 03:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <679599.83142.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Michael Henry thus spake: > P.S. I want to be clear that I'm not picking on any particular folks here. > I just wanted to know what reasoning you MySpacers could offer to justify > your presence there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear any convincing > reasons. PG: Well, I wasn't going to join this discussion. It started out a bit too wavy gravy for me. I mean, really.... But since I have a few MySpace pages, I'll chime in. Along with Matthew's points, I'll echo that I don't pay for my MS pages. I also don't read the ads, or support those companies that place ads there. Whenever I do glance at them, they look absolutely ridiculous. I doubt I'll be signing up on Sugar Daddy anytime soon... MS has allowed me to connect with a lot of musicians I would not have discovered otherwise. I mean LOTS. Since it's also a search engine, you can find lots of links to interests. I wanted to check out more Japanese Noise bands and breakcore bands, so I searched on MS and founds quite a few interesting groups. It's a research tool that's easy to use.... A publisher "met" me through a friend's MS page who is a poet. She recommended he read some of my work. Consequently, he published some of my poems. That wouldn't have happened if I wasn't there. I also have met quite a few genuinely nice people that I have developed friendships with...oh yeah, the "Friend" thing actually works sometimes! Yes, there are a lot of idiots out there, but you take the same chance walking out your front door. Gino's comment on isolation seems apt here. I have also seen people at my shows that I didn't know. I asked them how they found out about the show. They said, (and I quote...): "I read your MySpace bulletin". Well, well, what do you know about that? I have set up gigs in Europe, Los Angeles and the east coast by connecting with venues and musicians on MS. Gino and I have both arranged gigs in Paris through David Fenech, who we met on MS. To acheive existential wholeness, you have to be aware that all actions are the result of choice. I choose to use MS for the reasons stated above. I choose to promote my music there. It's not the only way I promote my music. I'm surely not conflicted about it. So Rupert Murdoch is making money. Given the current system, he has the right to do that. As I explore existentialism more and more, I find that I can no longer judge others by their actions. I ask for complete freedom to be who I am and do what I do. If I ask for that freedom, does it not make sense that I have to allow every other human being out there the same freedom? This takes a lot of letting go. Otherwise, how could I live in a world with that lying,ignorant murderous son of a bitch that lives in the white house? I have to let go of the expectation that I'm going to change him. He lives in his own private Idaho and appears to be unavailable for direct discussion or artistic exchange. Yes, people break laws and do horrible things. I can't change that by removing myself from MySpace or by buying less gasoline. The only way I can live in this crazy world and not go insane is to make music. I believe that in some small way I am raising consciousness by doing what I do. I hope that is not a pretentious statement. I am totally humble when it comes to music and my abilities. I do not pretend to be a "master" of music - it's impossible to master music, it's too broad, too vast, too complex. But I can try to contribute to the world of artistic expression by playing my horn and exploring it again and again and trying to find new ways to coax some beauty from it. If I'm lucky, maybe one person will learn to be a better listener due to something I may have created, or have been a part of. That's good enough for me. Maybe one of my students will grow up and embrace a life of artistic expression (poor sap!). Who knows. it's a crap shoot. But I like the odds and I like the game. I would much rather be teaching and playing music than driving a tank into someone's house in Beirut or Bagdhad. I would much rather teach kids about the overtone series than sell life insurance. It's a choice...and I'm cool with my choices. I don't need to prove myself to you...so, I'll get back to what I like to do best: writing music. Good night kids, PG From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri May 9 03:29:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 03:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <514150.51049.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Michael, The thing that's tricky about your rant is that you talk about MS like it is the oh so tempting cookie that we're all looking for. I'm not looking for MS, I'm interested in the PEOPLE I have met and had creative and meaningful exchanges with...networking is the only real value - it's what Alicia says she wants (a networking tool for art freaks) without bedding Murdoch. I understand that concern, but it doesn't keep me from using the tool. And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving Murdoch a cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm gone. And, come on, why take away the unchecked JOY I experience when deleting friend requests from girls named Bambi that want to show me their personal photos? Cheers, PG Michael Henry wrote: Gino wrote (re: my buggy-ass Hitler analogy): >>Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. I quote from your previous message "Sometimes you have to dance with the devil." So please correct me if I am misinterpreting you.....does that mean that you wouldn't mind dancing with Hitler (as long as he provided free hosting services for you)? I didn't expect you (or anyone) to take any "bait" because I am not baiting any hooks. Rupert may not be in the same league as Hitler. But that doesn't necessarily imply that his league is minor. >>MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about trendiness. Neither am I. "Trendiness" is a good word to employe here. It describes the secondary reason I (try to) avoid even glancing at someone's MySpace page (the first being that any eyeballs there support Murdoch's fascist empire, either directly or indirectly) >>The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. Really? I would hasten to disagree here. Why even bother with any such any corporate- blood-sucking entity? Punk was (supposedly) about DIY. Some new music too. "Balkanized"? So what? I really regret to inform you of this, but the "new music community" (however you define it) is already Balkanized (capital "B"). And it has been for some time now. Really, since the 50's, 60's or perhaps even earlier. Maybe it has always been that way. Just take someone....let's say, the ever-so-pithy Kyle Gann for example, with his endless rantings on the the whole uptown vs. downtown composers (or just plain posers) tirade (and boy, is that tired.....). Talk about your "Balkanization.'.....(I'm imagining The Who, "Talking bout my Balkination") Look, I'm all for "musical weirdos worldwide" (MWW - great name for a group, thank you), but in my view there is nothing weird about MySpace other than the mystifying weirdness of why anyone would want to go there and stare at puke-inducing banner adds while spending innumerable hours sorting through tons of lame-ass chaff in order to find the wheat, all while Rupert Murdoch watches his bank account balance skyrocket as he sips a glass of fine wine (Chateau Petrus no doubt at $28,550 a bottle) poured by a young boy wearing a toga. Sorry, but this is exaclty what is "too much for my tastes." Even if your daughter does offer me the most scrumptiously delicious cookies that were ever baked. ;-) I'll just sum up by saying that most of the pro-MySpace arguments about this issue have seemed to amount to "well, yeah I know he's a fascist, but...." Excuses masquerading as reasons. In other words, it's free, it's easy, etc. so I can overlook the rest. I have a problem with that. But then that's just me. Thanks for the honest response to the question I posed, but I think I'll continue to be vigilant in my efforts to stay away from My-fucking-Rupert Murdoch-space.com. Even if your daughter make her incredibly delightful cookies from the "Dark Side" available there. BTW, are those cookies vegan? -MH _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri May 9 07:59:16 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 07:59:16 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> alicia: > > > but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting > endless videos of their retarded cats. > hey! ...i resemble that remark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR4K2KN8MRI :D From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Fri May 9 08:54:49 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:54:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B76D23-5504-4007-BFAE-DEE350446E94@balancepointacoustics.com> On May 9, 2008, at 12:32 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Rupert may not be in the same league as Hitler. But that doesn't > necessarily imply that his league is minor. - You like in America, right? That means you have already decided to stay here and be a part of things more dark and evil than Murdoch and myspace. Nobody's hands are clean. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 09:02:03 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 09:02:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: But the thing with Myspace, and youtube, and the other services and sites that define "web 2.0" is that you - the user - the customer, essentially - are not making money for these companies by paying money, but essentially by doing work for free. Compare it to radio or, something that combines music and socializing - a nightclub. The radio station and the nightclub pay for the music - let's leave aside the issue of whether the payment reaches the musicians and the retarded way that entities like ASCAP calculate royalties - myspace doesn't. Your standard TV network or cable channel pays for its programming, youtube doesn't. Certainly you - the musician on myspace - benefit from it as well. I think the question is how you frame the choice to have a myspace page. Is it a similar type of choice as what brand of beverage to consume or whether to subscribe to a particular magazine, newspaper, or cell phone service ... Or is it closer to choosing whether to have a phone. Essentially, is myspace one of those monopolies like the garbage company or the electric company that you pretty much are stuck dealing with for the sake of efficiency and/or normative behavior? >From the perspective of a venue proprietor - I feel the same way about having a myspace page as I did about listing events in the weeklies owned by New Times - (now Village Voice media, and the East Bay Express is no longer owned by them, but their music coverage got crappier when they went independent - sigh.) I wasn't going to pay to take out ads in said papers, but, yes, I'd send them listing info, and they'd list my events, and those listings do contribute to their revenue and allow them to continue building their brand of asshole-libertarian journalism and eliminating jobs for local writers and driving local papers out of business. But I agree with Matt Goodheart - I'm just wondering when the advertising revenue is going to shrink and waiting to see what the new "business model" is. sl Phillip postulated: And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving Murdoch a cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm gone. From Gino.Robair at penton.com Fri May 9 09:45:38 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:45:38 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Vegan cookie from the dark side Message-ID: Michael wrote: <> Again, I'm not an apologist for MySpace or Rupert. And I guess I'm not buying the argument that he's a "fascist" in the traditional sense. I agree he's unsavory, but media tycoons that play an overwhelming role in politics are not new, and he's not the first, nor the last. Were you boycotting Hearst products back in the day? Do you never tune in to Fox to see what kind of stuff they're saying? << Excuses masquerading as reasons. In other words, it's free, it's easy, etc. so I can overlook the rest. I have a problem with that. But then that's just me.>> Well, if you can convince me that you're not buying or using products from China, and all of your consumable items are fair trade etc, then I might buy into your argument. <> She's not part of the dark side; That was just her favorite shirt comment: etc. In fact, she's built her own wiki. Kids do that these days. And she bakes a fine cookie, too. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri May 9 09:53:52 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:53:52 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, the service that places like Myspace offer is basically a simplified way of having a web presence. The user doesn't need to learn web design, doesn't need to pay for web hosting, and gets to use really easy 'site building' tools. The site has advertising because if it didn't, you'd have to pay for it. Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you revenue for your content? Matt On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > But the thing with Myspace, and youtube, and the other services and sites > that define "web 2.0" is that you - the user - the customer, essentially - > are not making money for these companies by paying money, but essentially > by > doing work for free. > > Compare it to radio or, something that combines music and socializing - a > nightclub. The radio station and the nightclub pay for the music - let's > leave aside the issue of whether the payment reaches the musicians and the > retarded way that entities like ASCAP calculate royalties - myspace > doesn't. > Your standard TV network or cable channel pays for its programming, youtube > doesn't. > > Certainly you - the musician on myspace - benefit from it as well. I think > the question is how you frame the choice to have a myspace page. Is it a > similar type of choice as what brand of beverage to consume or whether to > subscribe to a particular magazine, newspaper, or cell phone service ... Or > is it closer to choosing whether to have a phone. Essentially, is myspace > one of those monopolies like the garbage company or the electric company > that you pretty much are stuck dealing with for the sake of efficiency > and/or normative behavior? > > >From the perspective of a venue proprietor - I feel the same way about > having a myspace page as I did about listing events in the weeklies owned > by > New Times - (now Village Voice media, and the East Bay Express is no longer > owned by them, but their music coverage got crappier when they went > independent - sigh.) I wasn't going to pay to take out ads in said papers, > but, yes, I'd send them listing info, and they'd list my events, and those > listings do contribute to their revenue and allow them to continue building > their brand of asshole-libertarian journalism and eliminating jobs for > local > writers and driving local papers out of business. > > But I agree with Matt Goodheart - I'm just wondering when the advertising > revenue is going to shrink and waiting to see what the new "business model" > is. > > sl > > Phillip postulated: > And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving Murdoch a > cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm gone. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Fri May 9 10:10:18 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:10:18 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Myspace also gets you different listeners than a personal website due to the network that is in place. It is a cute battle, and I don't think myspace is innocent, but all of us engage in many more things in everyday life with far more shady backgrounds. On May 9, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Well, the service that places like Myspace offer is basically a > simplified > way of having a web presence. The user doesn't need to learn web > design, > doesn't need to pay for web hosting, and gets to use really easy 'site > building' tools. The site has advertising because if it didn't, > you'd have > to pay for it. > > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you > revenue for your content? > > Matt > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > wrote: > >> But the thing with Myspace, and youtube, and the other services >> and sites >> that define "web 2.0" is that you - the user - the customer, >> essentially - >> are not making money for these companies by paying money, but >> essentially >> by >> doing work for free. >> >> Compare it to radio or, something that combines music and >> socializing - a >> nightclub. The radio station and the nightclub pay for the music - >> let's >> leave aside the issue of whether the payment reaches the musicians >> and the >> retarded way that entities like ASCAP calculate royalties - myspace >> doesn't. >> Your standard TV network or cable channel pays for its >> programming, youtube >> doesn't. >> >> Certainly you - the musician on myspace - benefit from it as well. >> I think >> the question is how you frame the choice to have a myspace page. >> Is it a >> similar type of choice as what brand of beverage to consume or >> whether to >> subscribe to a particular magazine, newspaper, or cell phone >> service ... Or >> is it closer to choosing whether to have a phone. Essentially, is >> myspace >> one of those monopolies like the garbage company or the electric >> company >> that you pretty much are stuck dealing with for the sake of >> efficiency >> and/or normative behavior? >> >>> From the perspective of a venue proprietor - I feel the same way >>> about >> having a myspace page as I did about listing events in the >> weeklies owned >> by >> New Times - (now Village Voice media, and the East Bay Express is >> no longer >> owned by them, but their music coverage got crappier when they went >> independent - sigh.) I wasn't going to pay to take out ads in said >> papers, >> but, yes, I'd send them listing info, and they'd list my events, >> and those >> listings do contribute to their revenue and allow them to continue >> building >> their brand of asshole-libertarian journalism and eliminating jobs >> for >> local >> writers and driving local papers out of business. >> >> But I agree with Matt Goodheart - I'm just wondering when the >> advertising >> revenue is going to shrink and waiting to see what the new >> "business model" >> is. >> >> sl >> >> Phillip postulated: >> And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving >> Murdoch a >> cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm >> gone. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:12:01 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:12:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you > revenue for your content? this is a really good point, Matt. yep, i feel that the pros still outweight the cons, simply as a consumer. Also, the myspace department in the evil empire is paying a whole team of talented web designers (and most likely, moonlighting musicians) that are busy thinking of ways to make us stay there, from easier-to-use tools to promotions to ways of helping us network. not saying they're doing it for our good, but as an insider to this type of environment, i know they ultimately want to stay paid, so they're focused on making a good product. We do benefit from this. k On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Well, the service that places like Myspace offer is basically a simplified > way of having a web presence. The user doesn't need to learn web design, > doesn't need to pay for web hosting, and gets to use really easy 'site > building' tools. The site has advertising because if it didn't, you'd have > to pay for it. > > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you > revenue for your content? > > Matt > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > wrote: > > > But the thing with Myspace, and youtube, and the other services and sites > > that define "web 2.0" is that you - the user - the customer, essentially > - > > are not making money for these companies by paying money, but essentially > > by > > doing work for free. > > > > Compare it to radio or, something that combines music and socializing - a > > nightclub. The radio station and the nightclub pay for the music - let's > > leave aside the issue of whether the payment reaches the musicians and > the > > retarded way that entities like ASCAP calculate royalties - myspace > > doesn't. > > Your standard TV network or cable channel pays for its programming, > youtube > > doesn't. > > > > Certainly you - the musician on myspace - benefit from it as well. I > think > > the question is how you frame the choice to have a myspace page. Is it a > > similar type of choice as what brand of beverage to consume or whether to > > subscribe to a particular magazine, newspaper, or cell phone service ... > Or > > is it closer to choosing whether to have a phone. Essentially, is myspace > > one of those monopolies like the garbage company or the electric company > > that you pretty much are stuck dealing with for the sake of efficiency > > and/or normative behavior? > > > > >From the perspective of a venue proprietor - I feel the same way about > > having a myspace page as I did about listing events in the weeklies owned > > by > > New Times - (now Village Voice media, and the East Bay Express is no > longer > > owned by them, but their music coverage got crappier when they went > > independent - sigh.) I wasn't going to pay to take out ads in said > papers, > > but, yes, I'd send them listing info, and they'd list my events, and > those > > listings do contribute to their revenue and allow them to continue > building > > their brand of asshole-libertarian journalism and eliminating jobs for > > local > > writers and driving local papers out of business. > > > > But I agree with Matt Goodheart - I'm just wondering when the advertising > > revenue is going to shrink and waiting to see what the new "business > model" > > is. > > > > sl > > > > Phillip postulated: > > And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving Murdoch a > > cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm gone. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:27:13 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:27:13 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (sigh) using myspace does not benefit Fox News. Yes, both are owned by the same company, but Fox News makes plenty of money on its own. I'll also add that using myspace does not funnel money into Rupert Murdoch's fascist homo-hating military industrial complex. Does it benefit Rupert Murdoch? Yes it does. Does Rupert Murdoch have a secret island CIA base where he uses myspace funds to clone kkk members to funnel into the United States? Probably not. Was myspace created to benefit Rupert Murdoch? No. He saw something that was working and he bought it. Obviously we're not going to convince you of anything with your fingers in your ears like that, so I will say this instead: This talk about evil corporations, how all CEOs are fascists, and how using any store-bought product or internet service is contributing to the destruction of our otherwise edenistic existence? It makes the rest of us liberals look stupid, and helps drive up Fox News viewership more than the myspace accounts of this discussion group's members ever could. Mat On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:52 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Damon Smith wrote: > > >> It (MySpace) is a good service that makes them a pile of money by > helping others. > > Really. By "them" do you mean Rupert Murdoch's $1 billion pile-of-money in > profit? Aiding the diseemination of Fox nooze propaganda is a "good > service"? > > Who these "others" being helped? That is, other than Murdoch and his > shareholders? > > Slay me. > > -MH > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 10:31:31 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 10:31:31 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: No, but you wouldn't be generating money for Rupert Murdoch or forcing people coming to your site to look at the annoying ads, or having to see them yourself everytime you log in. Michael was asserting that having a myspace page is filling the coffers of Rupert Murdoch's evil empire. Other people responded that they aren't paying for the service. I was describing how they are, in a sense, paying for the service by providing free content to stick revenue-generating ads onto, besides being potential audiences for said ads, whereas in a traditional media model, the content that revenue-generating ads are stuck onto is paid for by the network/site. SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! sl Matt responded: Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you revenue for your content? Matt From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:37:26 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:37:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: likewise: myspace.com/miltnerunit and my hens, too! hi alicia, long time not talk! :) does catnip count as a drug? k On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 7:59 AM, lx rudis wrote: > alicia: > > > > > > but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting > > endless videos of their retarded cats. > > > > hey! > > ...i resemble that remark. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR4K2KN8MRI > > :D > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:38:24 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:38:24 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7272233a0805091038u1de2980agc126be032030586d@mail.gmail.com> wow, sarah. you really hit this one hard, thanks. > that define "web 2.0" is that you - the user - the customer, essentially > are not making money for these companies by paying money, but essentially > by doing work for free. right. in theater i remember calling it 'sweat equity' but i think this is a bit different, mostly because of integration with adspace and tracking systems. no matter how much sweat i devote to myspace, i doubt i'll get $ back from them, or security, or whatever. meanwhile, the more i make, the more traction i develop, the stronger they become. it was discussions like that with several other social community old-timers like myself that led to me pulling _all_ content down from myspace, and the deliberate reduction of my presence there. > Compare it to radio or, something that combines music and > socializing - a ok, now i think this is very interesting - a quick look at what myspace has set up _implies_ that sort of relationship. but imvho there's something a bit poisonous going on there, and it relates to what i consider 'fame culture'. lots of people make their aesthetic decisions based on what they hear/see from others, not from personal investment. as a result, there's a natural skew toward things which have a visible [and usually expensive] push behind them. a natural byproduct would be that 'small' artists tend to be ignored, not because their work is poor, but because the _equally creative artwork_ of marketing the artist does not exist for them. although i see some little vestigial tools to overturn this, and i also see cultural moves in certain spike communities to get around it, the end result seems to be 'more of the same'. without marketing, you don't exist... Certainly you - the musician on myspace - benefit from it as well. I exactly. it's not like myspace _failed_ me, it's just that it didn't 'work'. i have met lots of people internationally, fans have tracked me down there, i've even made friends. but ultimately it was not worth my trouble to ally myself with that place. additionally, i'm in a _fast_ community which tends to skate around the web rather than staying put. as a quick example, i'll offer that several of my myspace friends made an exodus to flickr, and i'm getting pinged hard there by people wanting me to enhance my presence over there. another example, i'll offer that freeware CMS and easy access to serverspace yield new opportunities for little communities _designed_ to only exist for a college semester, or the run up to an event. although it's cool to have the constant terrain of myspace underfoot, it's not necessarily _necessary_. in my case, i've racked up a big 3k or so of hits there, those hits served me well, and now i'm moving on to other, newer sites which have a better chance of giving me an _active_ audience. but i digress...sarah, back to you: think > the question is how you frame the choice to have a myspace page. and even though i just addressed this, i think it bears repeating. tools is tools. myspace is a tool. i pissed off sevcom bigtime by never putting up a gallery there, then deliberately put one up at myspace. i did that because i recognized that sevcom could not 'work' for me the way myspace did. after dealing with MS for 2 years, i figured out that it had _very_ limited value to an artist like myself, so i took a deep breath and took the necessary steps to do something which _would_ work. and i share that with you guys in hope that it might give you a slightly more positive spin on MS. yeah, it sucks. no, i don't intend to go to secondlife [that is DEFINITELY sooo 5 minutes ago]. but i recognize that to someone like me, webpresence is as vital as blood, and that i better approach this aspect of my career with at least as much creativity as i do my main 'art'. ok, that's it from me. great thread, sarah! From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 10:42:04 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 10:42:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Well, my dad was paid to train Vietnamese people to use weapons to kill other Vietnamese people (and probably some Americans) in the Vietnam War (he didn't have much choice in the matter, Myspace employees have more ...), and he's a good guy and a good teacher and played music in college ... Never mind that the Vietnam War was a crock of shit ... Talented people and plenty of moonlighting musicians got paid. I'm not arguing that people who disagree w/Murdoch's politics shouldn't have myspace pages. It's dancing w/the devil, like Gino said. However, this argument below is problematic. sl Kristin replied: Also, the myspace department in the evil empire is paying a whole team of talented web designers (and most likely, moonlighting musicians) that are busy thinking of ways to make us stay there, from easier-to-use tools to promotions to ways of helping us network. not saying they're doing it for our good, but as an insider to this type of environment, i know they ultimately want to stay paid, so they're focused on making a good product. We do benefit from this. From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:46:12 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:46:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7272233a0805091046ve4c32efx7c3e65502aad70c2@mail.gmail.com> sensible sage sarah said: > SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! > and damned tasty too, so pass the pickapeppa sauce please. Matt responded: > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you > revenue for your content? > sorry to be a prick here, but in a word, yes. 1- you'd have to treat it as a business enterprise. 2- you'd have to understand that although content is king, your's might not be enough, or good enough. 3- you'd eventually despise your own art. here's my old site. it paid my rent quite well, but i still hate it: http://games.atari.com/ From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 10:51:05 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 10:51:05 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's sake! it's just friggin myspace! On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Well, my dad was paid to train Vietnamese people to use weapons to kill > other Vietnamese people (and probably some Americans) in the Vietnam War > (he > didn't have much choice in the matter, Myspace employees have more ...), > and > he's a good guy and a good teacher and played music in college ... Never > mind that the Vietnam War was a crock of shit ... Talented people and > plenty > of moonlighting musicians got paid. > > I'm not arguing that people who disagree w/Murdoch's politics shouldn't > have > myspace pages. It's dancing w/the devil, like Gino said. However, this > argument below is problematic. > > sl > > Kristin replied: > Also, the myspace department in the evil > empire is paying a whole team of talented web designers (and most likely, > moonlighting musicians) that are busy thinking of ways to make us stay > there, from easier-to-use tools to promotions to ways of helping us > network. > not saying they're doing it for our good, but as an insider to this type of > environment, i know they ultimately want to stay paid, so they're focused > on > making a good product. We do benefit from this. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 10:55:58 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 10:55:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Matt declared: This talk about evil corporations, how all CEOs are fascists, and how using any store-bought product or internet service is contributing to the destruction of our otherwise edenistic existence? - I don't think anyone is saying that all CEOs are fascists ... Only Rupert Murdoch, which might be slightly hyperbolizing his politics, but not by much. Oh, if only myspace was owned by George Clooney instead ... sl From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:01:22 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:01:22 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <7272233a0805091046ve4c32efx7c3e65502aad70c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <7272233a0805091046ve4c32efx7c3e65502aad70c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > here's my old site. it paid my rent quite well, but i still hate it: > http://games.atari.com/ watch out, alex, you're just asking for another rant from the anti-video-game-music-as-a-means-to-make-a-living people, k On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:46 AM, lx rudis wrote: > sensible sage sarah said: > > > SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! > > > > and damned tasty too, so pass the pickapeppa sauce please. > > Matt responded: > > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and > > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you > > revenue for your content? > > > > sorry to be a prick here, but in a word, yes. > > 1- you'd have to treat it as a business enterprise. > 2- you'd have to understand that although content is king, your's might > not > be enough, or good enough. > 3- you'd eventually despise your own art. > > here's my old site. it paid my rent quite well, but i still hate it: > http://games.atari.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From polly.moller at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:04:25 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:04:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <7272233a0805091046ve4c32efx7c3e65502aad70c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40805091104l679868edi14021ea5c0901f3e@mail.gmail.com> The marketplace cannot be stopped. (she said, meeting Suki & PG on the streets of Oakland for furtive after-dark cash transactions) P. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:01 AM, kristin miltner wrote: >> here's my old site. it paid my rent quite well, but i still hate it: >> http://games.atari.com/ > > watch out, alex, you're just asking for another rant from > the anti-video-game-music-as-a-means-to-make-a-living people, > > k > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 10:46 AM, lx rudis wrote: > >> sensible sage sarah said: >> >> > SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! >> > >> >> and damned tasty too, so pass the pickapeppa sauce please. >> >> Matt responded: >> > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and >> > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you >> > revenue for your content? >> > >> >> sorry to be a prick here, but in a word, yes. >> >> 1- you'd have to treat it as a business enterprise. >> 2- you'd have to understand that although content is king, your's might >> not >> be enough, or good enough. >> 3- you'd eventually despise your own art. >> >> here's my old site. it paid my rent quite well, but i still hate it: >> http://games.atari.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > kristin miltner > audio professional > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ ------------------------------------------------------------ From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 11:07:43 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:07:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Well, Hitler was brought up earlier ... But your argument, as I understood it, was "nevermind the politics - it's a good product made by some talented people, some of whom are probably also musicians." And I think it's a problematic argument because one can say that about a lot of atrocious things. Your earlier argument that it's functional and it allows you to spend more time making music, etc. - I agree with. Personally, the dollars my myspace presence earn Murdoch's empire are probably a lot less than what I've been able to pay artists as a result of increased income from increased attendance at shows. It's the same cost-benefit analysis that a lot of folks have been coming up with in defending their myspace presence. sl Kristin argued: we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's sake! it's just friggin myspace! From aliciabyer at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:09:18 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:09:18 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> I think the point here is that networking software really does have the potential to do something positive for art (as evidenced by everybody's attachment to it) and it's just shitty that some asshole owns it and exploits it.. the same thing happens to everything with political potential in capitalism, it's simply absorbed or annexed instead of being opposed. I interviewed this opera director in germany... she had written an opera about skinheads, kind of sympathizing with them in a way. The main kid who eventually became a neonazi had an art critic for a dad. Every time the kid to make art, the dad would put it on display and all the "powers that be" of society would comment on it and approve it and put it in a gallery, leeching away all the subversive power. Eventually the kid went crazy and became a Nazi because as the director put it, "that is the only thing that is so taboo that it will never be absorbed." She also said that "In a society like ours... that is always eating our tries to oppose [sic] almost always if you are a clever person at all you must go so far outside.. " (to stay true to yourself or have some integrity). Now I'm not advocating neo-nazism, those people are scary and gave me a run for my money while I was in berlin, but I think there is some truth to the fact that we're between a rock and a hard place: either you sell your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day by day, or you try to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme fringe that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your objectives either. I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. -alicia Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Matt declared: > This talk about evil > corporations, how all CEOs are fascists, and how using any store-bought > product or internet service is contributing to the destruction of our > otherwise edenistic existence? > > - I don't think anyone is saying that all CEOs are fascists ... Only Rupert > Murdoch, which might be slightly hyperbolizing his politics, but not by > much. Oh, if only myspace was owned by George Clooney instead ... > > sl > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 11:12:59 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:12:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: This is very true ... Painfully true. sl Alicia wrote: I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 11:15:27 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:15:27 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Or from Moe! About having to delete so many messages from his inbox ... sl Kristin warned: watch out, alex, you're just asking for another rant from the anti-video-game-music-as-a-means-to-make-a-living people, k From aliciabyer at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:15:33 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:15:33 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482494C5.5040402@gmail.com> Oh yeah, and if I had a video camera, I'd put my retarded cat up there too... she does this really funny thing where she pretends to be a record on the turntable, biting her tail and going in circles... -alicia ps. hi kristin! Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Well, Hitler was brought up earlier ... > > But your argument, as I understood it, was "nevermind the politics - it's a > good product made by some talented people, some of whom are probably also > musicians." And I think it's a problematic argument because one can say that > about a lot of atrocious things. Your earlier argument that it's functional > and it allows you to spend more time making music, etc. - I agree with. > > Personally, the dollars my myspace presence earn Murdoch's empire are > probably a lot less than what I've been able to pay artists as a result of > increased income from increased attendance at shows. It's the same > cost-benefit analysis that a lot of folks have been coming up with in > defending their myspace presence. > > sl > > Kristin argued: > we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's > sake! it's just friggin myspace! > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 11:18:14 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:18:14 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: I'll lend you one of mine ... I want to see this. Do it for me ... And Ava. sl Alicia offered: Oh yeah, and if I had a video camera, I'd put my retarded cat up there too... she does this really funny thing where she pretends to be a record on the turntable, biting her tail and going in circles... -alicia From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:21:10 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:21:10 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i'd wade through rupert's ads to see that, On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > I'll lend you one of mine ... I want to see this. Do it for me ... And Ava. > > sl > > Alicia offered: > Oh yeah, and if I had a video camera, I'd put my retarded cat up there > too... she does this really funny thing where she pretends to be a > record on the turntable, biting her tail and going in circles... > > -alicia > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 11:24:33 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:24:33 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) Message-ID: Phillip - you and Alicia have given me the idea for what could be a highly successful project - improvised music to cat videos. sl Phillip wrote: If I'm lucky, maybe one person will learn to be a better listener due to something I may have created, or have been a part of. That's good enough for me. Maybe one of my students will grow up and embrace a life of artistic expression (poor sap!). Who knows. it's a crap shoot From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:25:06 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:25:06 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> References: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> Message-ID: there are so many smart things in here that i don't know where to begin. let me just say that, yeah, the balancing act between integrity and participation in popular culture is really tough. obviously dropping out doesn't do any good. being utopian about using it while ignoring the politics behind it isn't good either. k On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Alicia Byer wrote: > I think the point here is that networking software really does have the > potential to do something positive for art (as evidenced by everybody's > attachment to it) and it's just shitty that some asshole owns it and > exploits it.. the same thing happens to everything with political > potential in capitalism, it's simply absorbed or annexed instead of > being opposed. > > I interviewed this opera director in germany... she had written an opera > about skinheads, kind of sympathizing with them in a way. The main kid > who eventually became a neonazi had an art critic for a dad. Every time > the kid to make art, the dad would put it on display and all the "powers > that be" of society would comment on it and approve it and put it in a > gallery, leeching away all the subversive power. Eventually the kid went > crazy and became a Nazi because as the director put it, "that is the > only thing that is so taboo that it will never be absorbed." She also > said that "In a society like ours... that is always eating our tries to > oppose [sic] almost always if you are a clever person at all you must go > so far outside.. " (to stay true to yourself or have some integrity). > > Now I'm not advocating neo-nazism, those people are scary and gave me a > run for my money while I was in berlin, but I think there is some truth > to the fact that we're between a rock and a hard place: either you sell > your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day by day, or you try > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme fringe > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your objectives > either. > > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. > > -alicia > > Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > Matt declared: > > This talk about evil > > corporations, how all CEOs are fascists, and how using any store-bought > > product or internet service is contributing to the destruction of our > > otherwise edenistic existence? > > > > - I don't think anyone is saying that all CEOs are fascists ... Only > Rupert > > Murdoch, which might be slightly hyperbolizing his politics, but not by > > much. Oh, if only myspace was owned by George Clooney instead ... > > > > sl > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:37:02 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:37:02 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i think i'm getting defensive because part of my identity is all wrapped up in the fact that i do make music and sfx for a big corporation. it's the reason i make that argument. that makes me a participator in the corporate scaryness. it's like alicia said, it's hardly convenient (TM) to live with integrity in america. i like my income, and my job. k On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Well, Hitler was brought up earlier ... > > But your argument, as I understood it, was "nevermind the politics - it's a > good product made by some talented people, some of whom are probably also > musicians." And I think it's a problematic argument because one can say > that > about a lot of atrocious things. Your earlier argument that it's functional > and it allows you to spend more time making music, etc. - I agree with. > > Personally, the dollars my myspace presence earn Murdoch's empire are > probably a lot less than what I've been able to pay artists as a result of > increased income from increased attendance at shows. It's the same > cost-benefit analysis that a lot of folks have been coming up with in > defending their myspace presence. > > sl > > Kristin argued: > we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's > sake! it's just friggin myspace! > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Fri May 9 11:51:15 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:51:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Alicia wrote: > either you sell your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day > by day, or you try > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme > fringe > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your > objectives > either. > > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in > America. I'm not sure that's how I see it. To begin with, this proposes that integrity is some kind of absolute, measurable thing, and a reasonable argument could be made that it's a pretty subjective measurement (such as Mother Theresa's acts vs. her personality. . . apparently personally she was a tyrant). Secondly, it implies that "fringing" equals moral integrity, which I think is a particularly specious cultural meme (and one that lines the pockets of Murdoch as well, actually.) Secondly, the lack of the ability to exist in some kind of absolute moral state is hardly particularly American, I think it's rather an essential nature of the human condition; there is always some systemic evil/good paradox; doesn't matter if it's American, the Roman Empire, fuedalism, the Khwe bushmen, or whatever. We tend to see our own modern problems as the paramount evil, but frankly I'd rather have to deal with trying to survive in the face of corporatism run amok than theocratic absolutism or tribal honor codes. Integrity, it seems to me, rather falls on how one strikes their balance. One cannot exist without participating in systems which create simultaneous positive and negative results. mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From michaelz at zoka.com Fri May 9 11:57:01 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 11:57:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] MySpace spreads its tentacles Message-ID: >MySpace Makes Data Portable to Other Web Sites > >Barry Levine, newsfactor.com >May 9, 2008 > >The move toward data portability for denizens of social-networking >sites gained more momentum Thursday with MySpace's announcement of >its Data Availability project. > >MySpace described the initiative as empowering "the global MySpace >community to share their public profile data to Web sites of their >choice throughout the Internet." CEO and cofounder Chris DeWolfe >said that "the walls around the garden are coming down" and his >company and several partners are pioneering ways for sharing "social >experiences Web-wide." > >Launch Partners > >The partners at the launch were Yahoo, eBay, Photobucket and >Twitter. MySpace said its partners will complement its efforts in a >variety of ways. For instance, if a MySpace user has Yahoo Instant >Messenger, that user's MySpace default photo, interests and favorite >music could be shown through the IM client. MySpace data can also be >shown in Yahoo's universal profile or through Yahoo Mail's inbox. Full story: From slusser at pixar.com Fri May 9 12:02:42 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:02:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> References: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> Message-ID: On May 9, 2008, at 11:09 AM, Alicia Byer wrote: > > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in > America. Considering its foundations in slavery and genocide, it's a bit tough... From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 12:10:18 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 12:10:18 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Mr. g: Secondly, the lack of the ability to exist in some kind of absolute moral state is hardly particularly American, I think it's rather an essential nature of the human condition; there is always some systemic evil/good paradox; doesn't matter if it's American, the Roman Empire, fuedalism, the Khwe bushmen, or whatever. --- I'd argue that the aspect that's modern (or post-modern) and perhaps particularly American, is the idea that we are capable of doing so by making the "right" choices, many of which have to do with consumption of products and services and, for lack of a better word, entrepeneurialism. In pre-modern times, and in many non-Capitalist societies, except for the ruling classes (and perhaps the clergy or religious leaders) had little choice in anything, and social mobility was fairly non-existent. Proles and peasants will be proles and peasants and will not be kings or queens. In European countries with social service safety nets, the differences between "success" and "failure" are not as extreme, and there is that safety net. We tend to see our own modern problems as the paramount evil, but frankly I'd rather have to deal with trying to survive in the face of corporatism run amok than theocratic absolutism or tribal honor codes. --- Agreed. sl From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri May 9 12:19:13 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:19:13 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> References: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0805091219i29d64738s2a8b22e60727ff51@mail.gmail.com> wow. well, it's my opinion that we can re-invent ourselves to escape the 'sell out' aspects of commercial art. in my opinion, that's exactly what i've done to myself, and intend to continue doing. i work both sides of the fence, and am very comfortable doing so - each supports the other, in a way. but this doesn't work for everyone, and i won't generalize or insist that everyone adopt my POV or techniques. there's that old saw 'best revenge is living well'. ok, that leaves a lot open for interpretation, but when i view the thing i'm in, it means that i have to cast a steely gaze on my society itself, and pick and choose the components i let in, the things i allow to move me or control me... ...with full understanding that... ...other components define themselves as control, are unavoidable, or nearly so. but at the end of the day, it's _my_ decision as to whether i'll let my forced relationship with my society dictate how i feel about creativity. the reason i say that is that i've seen so many of my friends get submerged in blind anger and frustration at the social and political mess they are forced to navigate every freaking day. and often, creativity alone is not enough to blunt the pain. ...and from time to time, i submerge too. now that i've been down there a few times, i know that i eventually come back up and breathe, but it's a pretty wonky place, and i get really upset about being put down there, especially when its a result of this horribly casual relationship between aesthetics and economy that we ride. but at the end of it all, and wrenching this loopy post back somewhere recognizeable, i'll reiterate that i've gotten _friends_ thru myspace. maybe not a rent check, but for now, right now, that's enough for me. and myspace will never host another video of mine. nor music. and soon the images will be taken down. and once the bio blog is finished , it will be taken down as well. eventually, i'll have a doormat at myspace, i'll monitor it, and if i hear a knock, i'll politely answer and invite them in...elsewhere. bye, and thanks for providing such a thought provoking subject! On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Alicia Byer wrote: > I think the point here is that networking software really does have the > potential to do something positive for art (as evidenced by everybody's > attachment to it) and it's just shitty that some asshole owns it and > exploits it.. the same thing happens to everything with political > potential in capitalism, it's simply absorbed or annexed instead of > being opposed. > > I interviewed this opera director in germany... she had written an opera > about skinheads, kind of sympathizing with them in a way. The main kid > who eventually became a neonazi had an art critic for a dad. Every time > the kid to make art, the dad would put it on display and all the "powers > that be" of society would comment on it and approve it and put it in a > gallery, leeching away all the subversive power. Eventually the kid went > crazy and became a Nazi because as the director put it, "that is the > only thing that is so taboo that it will never be absorbed." She also > said that "In a society like ours... that is always eating our tries to > oppose [sic] almost always if you are a clever person at all you must go > so far outside.. " (to stay true to yourself or have some integrity). > > Now I'm not advocating neo-nazism, those people are scary and gave me a > run for my money while I was in berlin, but I think there is some truth > to the fact that we're between a rock and a hard place: either you sell > your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day by day, or you try > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme fringe > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your objectives > either. > > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. > > -alicia > > Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > Matt declared: > > This talk about evil > > corporations, how all CEOs are fascists, and how using any store-bought > > product or internet service is contributing to the destruction of our > > otherwise edenistic existence? > > > > - I don't think anyone is saying that all CEOs are fascists ... Only > Rupert > > Murdoch, which might be slightly hyperbolizing his politics, but not by > > much. Oh, if only myspace was owned by George Clooney instead ... > > > > sl > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Fri May 9 12:42:44 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:42:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <7272233a0805091219i29d64738s2a8b22e60727ff51@mail.gmail.com> References: <4824934E.2000007@gmail.com> <7272233a0805091219i29d64738s2a8b22e60727ff51@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0B85A2AE-1B09-4377-AE6C-8B23CD27B2CF@balancepointacoustics.com> It is a nice idea. I was into punk ideals when I was younger, then I realized that most were putting more into that and not really caring for the musical end. As far as I am concerned if I am not changing my music for non- musical reasons I am not selling out. Getting experimental and otherwise interesting art and music to more Americans and Western society is a lot more important to me than who owns myspace and what else they own. On May 9, 2008, at 12:19 PM, lx rudis wrote: > wow. > > well, it's my opinion that we can re-invent ourselves to escape the > 'sell > out' aspects of commercial art. in my opinion, that's exactly what > i've > done to myself, and intend to continue doing. i work both sides of > the > fence, and am very comfortable doing so - each supports the other, > in a way. > > but this doesn't work for everyone, and i won't generalize or > insist that > everyone adopt my POV or techniques. > > there's that old saw 'best revenge is living well'. ok, that > leaves a lot > open for interpretation, but when i view the thing i'm in, it means > that i > have to cast a steely gaze on my society itself, and pick and > choose the > components i let in, the things i allow to move me or control me... > > ...with full understanding that... > > ...other components define themselves as control, are unavoidable, > or nearly > so. but at the end of the day, it's _my_ decision as to whether > i'll let my > forced relationship with my society dictate how i feel about > creativity. > the reason i say that is that i've seen so many of my friends get > submerged > in blind anger and frustration at the social and political mess > they are > forced to navigate every freaking day. and often, creativity alone > is not > enough to blunt the pain. > > ...and from time to time, i submerge too. now that i've been down > there a > few times, i know that i eventually come back up and breathe, but > it's a > pretty wonky place, and i get really upset about being put down there, > especially when its a result of this horribly casual relationship > between > aesthetics and economy that we ride. > > but at the end of it all, and wrenching this loopy post back somewhere > recognizeable, i'll reiterate that i've gotten _friends_ thru myspace. > maybe not a rent check, but for now, right now, that's enough for me. > > and myspace will never host another video of mine. > nor music. > and soon the images will be taken down. > and once the bio blog is finished , it will be taken down as well. > > eventually, i'll have a doormat at myspace, i'll monitor it, and if > i hear a > knock, i'll politely answer and invite them in...elsewhere. > > bye, and thanks for providing such a thought provoking subject! > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Alicia Byer > wrote: > >> I think the point here is that networking software really does >> have the >> potential to do something positive for art (as evidenced by >> everybody's >> attachment to it) and it's just shitty that some asshole owns it and >> exploits it.. the same thing happens to everything with political >> potential in capitalism, it's simply absorbed or annexed instead of >> being opposed. >> >> I interviewed this opera director in germany... she had written an >> opera >> about skinheads, kind of sympathizing with them in a way. The main >> kid >> who eventually became a neonazi had an art critic for a dad. Every >> time >> the kid to make art, the dad would put it on display and all the >> "powers >> that be" of society would comment on it and approve it and put it >> in a >> gallery, leeching away all the subversive power. Eventually the >> kid went >> crazy and became a Nazi because as the director put it, "that is the >> only thing that is so taboo that it will never be absorbed." She also >> said that "In a society like ours... that is always eating our >> tries to >> oppose [sic] almost always if you are a clever person at all you >> must go >> so far outside.. " (to stay true to yourself or have some integrity). >> >> Now I'm not advocating neo-nazism, those people are scary and gave >> me a >> run for my money while I was in berlin, but I think there is some >> truth >> to the fact that we're between a rock and a hard place: either you >> sell >> your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day by day, or you >> try >> to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme >> fringe >> that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your >> objectives >> either. >> >> I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >> seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in >> America. >> >> -alicia >> >> Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: >>> Matt declared: >>> This talk about evil >>> corporations, how all CEOs are fascists, and how using any store- >>> bought >>> product or internet service is contributing to the destruction of >>> our >>> otherwise edenistic existence? >>> >>> - I don't think anyone is saying that all CEOs are fascists ... Only >> Rupert >>> Murdoch, which might be slightly hyperbolizing his politics, but >>> not by >>> much. Oh, if only myspace was owned by George Clooney instead ... >>> >>> sl >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri May 9 12:54:35 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:54:35 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Close up pets with a wide angle lens" night? On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Phillip - you and Alicia have given me the idea for what could be a highly > successful project - improvised music to cat videos. > > sl > > Phillip wrote: > If I'm lucky, maybe one person will learn to be a better listener due to > something I may have created, or have been a part of. That's good enough > for > me. Maybe one of my students will grow up and embrace a life of artistic > expression (poor sap!). Who knows. it's a crap shoot > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 13:13:06 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 13:13:06 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Vegan cookie from the dark side Message-ID: Like this? http://www.wikihow.com/Spin-a-Drumstick-in-a-Circle-on-Your-Palm sl Gino the proud parent: She's not part of the dark side; That was just her favorite shirt comment: etc. In fact, she's built her own wiki. Kids do that these days. From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 13:43:44 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:43:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Vegan cookie from the dark side Message-ID: Gino wrote: >>Were you boycotting Hearst products back in the day? Yes. >>Do you never tune in to Fox to see what kind of stuff they're saying? I killed my TV many years ago. I don't tune into anything but music and books, and the occasional movie. And I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go. >>Well, if you can convince me that you're not buying or using products from China, and all of your consumable items are fair trade etc, then I might buy into your argument. I did start boycotting goods made in China back, oh around the late 80's. Of course, in the ensuing years it has become next to impossible to avoid crap made in China, since damn near everything that is manufactured these days (particularly electronics) comes from there. So no...my hands aren't entirely clean. But when I have a choice (as is the case with MySpace) I do choose not to participate in the slave-labor economy, purchase goods made in China, opt for fair trade, etc. I recycle every fucking scrap I can. In other words I do what I can. >>And she bakes a fine cookie, too. But Gino, you didn't answer the question....are those cookies vegan? ;-) ---------------------- Michael Henry Audio Director Cryptic Studios, Inc. 980 University Avenue Los Gatos, CA 95032 (408) 836-7477 From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 13:59:04 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 13:59:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: PG Wrote: Dear Michael, >>And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving Murdoch a cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm gone. >>And, come on, why take away the unchecked JOY I experience when deleting friend requests from girls named Bambi that want to show me their personal photos? Dear Philip -- I never said you were PAYING FOR IT. But if Bambi clicks on one of the banner ads next to your page there, you are (indirectly) driving revenue right into Rupert's pocket. Even if Bambi doesn't click your banner ad, advertisers look at the number of eyeballs there....and advertisers seeking those millions of eyeballs are adding $1 billion a year to Rupert's bank account. I would never want to take away the joy you experience from Bambi. I just hate to see Bambi help put more money into Rupert's bank account. -MH From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 14:05:55 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:05:55 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Kristin Miltner wrote: >>we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's sake! it's just friggin myspace! No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the Bush regime. For Gawd's sake. -MH From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 14:15:00 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:15:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i can't be held responsible for all the americans out there that don't think before they allow themselves to be manipulated into supporting the war in iraq and the bush regime! On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Kristin Miltner wrote: > > >>we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's > sake! it's just friggin myspace! > > No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we > are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing > people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the Bush > regime. For Gawd's sake. > > -MH > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From liberatednsf at yahoo.com Fri May 9 14:16:11 2008 From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] delete button on OT Message-ID: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I can't stand myspace either, but it's not as bad as self-righteousness. Andrew ?Ev oida oti oudev oida http://www.andrewwilshusen.com http://oudevoida.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Henry To: "newmusic at music.mills.edu" Sent: Friday, May 9, 2008 2:05:55 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Kristin Miltner wrote: >>we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's sake! it's just friggin myspace! No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the Bush regime. For Gawd's sake. -MH _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From phil at philipgelb.com Fri May 9 14:30:57 2008 From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:30:57 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Vegan cookie from the dark side In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > But Gino, you didn't answer the question....are those cookies > vegan? ;-) > aren't all great cookies, vegan :) great vegan food and new music combine very well... phil Philip Gelb vegetarian chef shakuhachi player, teacher phil at philipgelb.com http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri May 9 14:31:55 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:31:55 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] delete button on OT In-Reply-To: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >> No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the Bush >> regime. For Gawd's sake. rrrrrgh every time i am on this list for longer than a second someone decides to get all grouchy know-it-all windbag shut-you-down mode, and ruins a perfectly good discussion. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:16 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote: > I can't stand myspace either, but it's not as bad as self-righteousness. > Andrew > Ev oida oti oudev oida > > > http://www.andrewwilshusen.com > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Michael Henry > To: "newmusic at music.mills.edu" > Sent: Friday, May 9, 2008 2:05:55 PM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) > > > Kristin Miltner wrote: > > >>we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's > sake! it's just friggin myspace! > > No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we > are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing > people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the Bush > regime. For Gawd's sake. > > -MH > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_yltAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 14:35:58 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:35:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Sarah wrote: >>This is very true ... Painfully true. sl Alicia wrote: >>I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >>seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. I agree. But that doesn't mean one should give up trying. Just for the record... I work for a corporate entity (yes, I create music and SFX for video games). I wish I could stay home and write operas all day, but I like to eat once in a while, hence the job. It's a living, and I do feel guilt pangs about it not being an entirely clean industry (stereotypical violence, etc.). I feel guilt over paying my taxes to support a war machine that draws around 50 percent of government expenditures while poor people are told we can't have a national health care system because that would be too expensive (or....socialism!). Even though I try to minimize my driving, and drive a the most fuel-efficient vehicle, I feel guilty about the carbon I spew into the atmosphere. And so on. So no, my hands are not clean. But I do what I can to minimize the impact my existence has upon this planet. I brought up the issue of MySpace (seemingly 100 posts ago) in this context. Since it seems to me that: 1. Either Rupert Murdoch is evil or he's not. I think most here would agree he is an evil bastard, and is media empire certainly is. 2. A presence on MySpace either supports his evil empire or not (even if it is indirect support). You know by now where I stand on this, but others have disagreed. 3. There are other (cleaner) options available to get your art out amongst the people that don't involve supporting propagandist media empires. Call me a hypocrite if you like. Go on deleting your invites to look at Bambi's personal photo collection. It's a (sort of) free country (at least for now, although I must admit that after 8 years of W., it's less free than ever) I originally just asked a simple question, which boiled down to "why MySpace?" Because I can see no reason for being there other than convenience, and the place has plenty of negatives. If what people like Murdoch have been responsible for doesn't trouble your conscience, well...go ahead and post there. That's your choice and I don't have a problem with it. I do however have a problem with people (like the aforementioned Avengers) who claim to be politically minded or politically active, leftist, anarchist or whatever failing to see the oxymoronic side of having a page there. I know I'm sounding tired, so this is the last I'll post on the subject. I thought the list needed some grist for the mill, as it's been kind of quiet lately. Sorry if I touched a raw nerve. -MH From tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net Fri May 9 14:53:33 2008 From: tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net (ted brinkley) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 14:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] in search of Steve Polta In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <519086.61434.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ...this is graham here....can someone hip me to steve polta's contact info? thanks........GC From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri May 9 15:00:49 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:00:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > If what people like Murdoch have been responsible for doesn't trouble your > conscience, well...go ahead and post there. That's your choice and I don't > have a problem with it. I do however have a problem with people (like the > aforementioned Avengers) who claim to be politically minded or politically > active, leftist, anarchist or whatever failing to see the oxymoronic side of > having a page there. You could also ask what The Simpsons is doing on his network, since that show has done more to bring liberal values to the mainstream than any others that I can think of. Matt From aliciabyer at gmail.com Fri May 9 15:06:49 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:06:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2dab1bd20805091506g1c264774idf78f5a948648884@mail.gmail.com> Well sure, I'm not saying I even really buy into the mentality of striving for moral perfection (seductive as it is), I was just using 'integrity' as short-hand for somehow being outside the economy. I'm guess I'm trying to say that our entire society functions as a unit, and the individuals involved have essentially very little choice as to whether or not to support the whole shebang, because we have to function in the economy. Any dollar bill we handle represents the ENTIRE economy, Bush included. All money is blood money; Democracy as a mode of choice is a prop undermined by the demands of the economy. This is true of any society ever, yeah and I am lucky to be complaining about this now rather than under a feudal lord. I just think that Americans in particular have this delusion that we are enlightened, autonomous individuals making "choices" and ignore the collective effect. I just wanted to point out that we really don't have meaningful choices about whether or not to participate in the US agenda unless we want to try to live in a cave, which doesn't help anyway, and then we're not really 'in the US'. The idea of "consumer choice" and the idea that not using myspace, buying a hybrid car or having leftist bumper stickers will make a significant change or bring about the revolution is in my mind, just an ILLUSION of power and control feeding off the delusion of individuality. Maybe it makes the individual feel better but that's just buying your salvation like at Church or something. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person to feel this way. If anything, I think that personal consumer choices will make very little change and that real political change comes from tons of people doing something TOGETHER, and I have no idea how that will ever happen in the US if we continue to believe that we are rugged individuals that can absolve ourselves with the right individual actions. -alicia On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Matthew Goodheart < matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote: > > Alicia wrote: > > either you sell your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day > > by day, or you try > > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme > > fringe > > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your > > objectives > > either. > > > > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't > > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in > > America. > > > I'm not sure that's how I see it. To begin with, this proposes that > integrity is some kind of absolute, measurable thing, and a reasonable > argument could be made that it's a pretty subjective measurement (such > as Mother Theresa's acts vs. her personality. . . apparently > personally she was a tyrant). Secondly, it implies that "fringing" > equals moral integrity, which I think is a particularly specious > cultural meme (and one that lines the pockets of Murdoch as well, > actually.) > > Secondly, the lack of the ability to exist in some kind of absolute > moral state is hardly particularly American, I think it's rather an > essential nature of the human condition; there is always some systemic > evil/good paradox; doesn't matter if it's American, the Roman Empire, > fuedalism, the Khwe bushmen, or whatever. We tend to see our own > modern problems as the paramount evil, but frankly I'd rather have to > deal with trying to survive in the face of corporatism run amok than > theocratic absolutism or tribal honor codes. > > Integrity, it seems to me, rather falls on how one strikes their > balance. One cannot exist without participating in systems which > create simultaneous positive and negative results. > > mg > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Fri May 9 15:27:35 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 18:27:35 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <2dab1bd20805091506g1c264774idf78f5a948648884@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dab1bd20805091506g1c264774idf78f5a948648884@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: y'all: it is now the weekend. remove hands from jugulars. someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form or another making ones daily existence unbearable. the world is not perfect. it never was, it never will be. get used to it. though regardless of said factoids, we might as well try to do something to make this place better other than just the usual vehemence and the best way of doing that is as a community... and if that is too fucking "wavy gravy" for any of you, i can y'all gladly offer any number of expletives, if you so desire to hear them. tgif. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > Well sure, I'm not saying I even really buy into the mentality of striving > for moral perfection (seductive as it is), I was just using 'integrity' as > short-hand for somehow being outside the economy. I'm guess I'm trying to > say that our entire society functions as a unit, and the individuals > involved have essentially very little choice as to whether or not to support > the whole shebang, because we have to function in the economy. Any dollar > bill we handle represents the ENTIRE economy, Bush included. All money is > blood money; Democracy as a mode of choice is a prop undermined by the > demands of the economy. > > This is true of any society ever, yeah and I am lucky to be complaining > about this now rather than under a feudal lord. I just think that Americans > in particular have this delusion that we are enlightened, autonomous > individuals making "choices" and ignore the collective effect. I just wanted > to point out that we really don't have meaningful choices about whether or > not to participate in the US agenda unless we want to try to live in a cave, > which doesn't help anyway, and then we're not really 'in the US'. The idea > of "consumer choice" and the idea that not using myspace, buying a hybrid > car or having leftist bumper stickers will make a significant change or > bring about the revolution is in my mind, just an ILLUSION of power and > control feeding off the delusion of individuality. Maybe it makes the > individual feel better but that's just buying your salvation like at Church > or something. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person to feel this way. > > If anything, I think that personal consumer choices will make very little > change and that real political change comes from tons of people doing > something TOGETHER, and I have no idea how that will ever happen in the US > if we continue to believe that we are rugged individuals that can absolve > ourselves with the right individual actions. > > -alicia > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Matthew Goodheart < > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote: > >> > Alicia wrote: >> > either you sell your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day >> > by day, or you try >> > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme >> > fringe >> > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your >> > objectives >> > either. >> > >> > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >> > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in >> > America. >> >> >> I'm not sure that's how I see it. To begin with, this proposes that >> integrity is some kind of absolute, measurable thing, and a reasonable >> argument could be made that it's a pretty subjective measurement (such >> as Mother Theresa's acts vs. her personality. . . apparently >> personally she was a tyrant). Secondly, it implies that "fringing" >> equals moral integrity, which I think is a particularly specious >> cultural meme (and one that lines the pockets of Murdoch as well, >> actually.) >> >> Secondly, the lack of the ability to exist in some kind of absolute >> moral state is hardly particularly American, I think it's rather an >> essential nature of the human condition; there is always some systemic >> evil/good paradox; doesn't matter if it's American, the Roman Empire, >> fuedalism, the Khwe bushmen, or whatever. We tend to see our own >> modern problems as the paramount evil, but frankly I'd rather have to >> deal with trying to survive in the face of corporatism run amok than >> theocratic absolutism or tribal honor codes. >> >> Integrity, it seems to me, rather falls on how one strikes their >> balance. One cannot exist without participating in systems which >> create simultaneous positive and negative results. >> >> mg >> >> Matthew Goodheart >> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> http://matthewgoodheart.com >> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Fri May 9 15:29:40 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 18:29:40 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: <2dab1bd20805091506g1c264774idf78f5a948648884@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: uhmmm.. yah. place that final "y'all" after "offer" instead of "can." been teaching all day - brain's shot. :) On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Travis Johns wrote: > y'all: > > it is now the weekend. > > remove hands from jugulars. > > someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. > > props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than > miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form > or another making ones daily existence unbearable. > > the world is not perfect. it never was, it never will be. get used to > it. though regardless of said factoids, we might as well try to do > something to make this place better other than just the usual > vehemence and the best way of doing that is as a community... and if > that is too fucking "wavy gravy" for any of you, i can y'all gladly > offer any number of expletives, if you so desire to hear them. > > tgif. > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: >> Well sure, I'm not saying I even really buy into the mentality of striving >> for moral perfection (seductive as it is), I was just using 'integrity' as >> short-hand for somehow being outside the economy. I'm guess I'm trying to >> say that our entire society functions as a unit, and the individuals >> involved have essentially very little choice as to whether or not to support >> the whole shebang, because we have to function in the economy. Any dollar >> bill we handle represents the ENTIRE economy, Bush included. All money is >> blood money; Democracy as a mode of choice is a prop undermined by the >> demands of the economy. >> >> This is true of any society ever, yeah and I am lucky to be complaining >> about this now rather than under a feudal lord. I just think that Americans >> in particular have this delusion that we are enlightened, autonomous >> individuals making "choices" and ignore the collective effect. I just wanted >> to point out that we really don't have meaningful choices about whether or >> not to participate in the US agenda unless we want to try to live in a cave, >> which doesn't help anyway, and then we're not really 'in the US'. The idea >> of "consumer choice" and the idea that not using myspace, buying a hybrid >> car or having leftist bumper stickers will make a significant change or >> bring about the revolution is in my mind, just an ILLUSION of power and >> control feeding off the delusion of individuality. Maybe it makes the >> individual feel better but that's just buying your salvation like at Church >> or something. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person to feel this way. >> >> If anything, I think that personal consumer choices will make very little >> change and that real political change comes from tons of people doing >> something TOGETHER, and I have no idea how that will ever happen in the US >> if we continue to believe that we are rugged individuals that can absolve >> ourselves with the right individual actions. >> >> -alicia >> >> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Matthew Goodheart < >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote: >> >>> > Alicia wrote: >>> > either you sell your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day >>> > by day, or you try >>> > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme >>> > fringe >>> > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your >>> > objectives >>> > either. >>> > >>> > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >>> > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in >>> > America. >>> >>> >>> I'm not sure that's how I see it. To begin with, this proposes that >>> integrity is some kind of absolute, measurable thing, and a reasonable >>> argument could be made that it's a pretty subjective measurement (such >>> as Mother Theresa's acts vs. her personality. . . apparently >>> personally she was a tyrant). Secondly, it implies that "fringing" >>> equals moral integrity, which I think is a particularly specious >>> cultural meme (and one that lines the pockets of Murdoch as well, >>> actually.) >>> >>> Secondly, the lack of the ability to exist in some kind of absolute >>> moral state is hardly particularly American, I think it's rather an >>> essential nature of the human condition; there is always some systemic >>> evil/good paradox; doesn't matter if it's American, the Roman Empire, >>> fuedalism, the Khwe bushmen, or whatever. We tend to see our own >>> modern problems as the paramount evil, but frankly I'd rather have to >>> deal with trying to survive in the face of corporatism run amok than >>> theocratic absolutism or tribal honor codes. >>> >>> Integrity, it seems to me, rather falls on how one strikes their >>> balance. One cannot exist without participating in systems which >>> create simultaneous positive and negative results. >>> >>> mg >>> >>> Matthew Goodheart >>> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >>> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >>> http://matthewgoodheart.com >>> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > From bradysharp at gmail.com Fri May 9 15:30:21 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:30:21 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] delete button on OT In-Reply-To: References: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a comparison, all credibility is lost in the discussion? If lefties would quit comparing everything to Hitler, more of society would probably listen to them. Bring Hitler into it, and the walls go up! Brady On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:31 PM, kristin miltner wrote: > >> No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we > are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing > people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the > Bush > > >> regime. For Gawd's sake. > > rrrrrgh every time i am on this list for longer than a second someone > decides to get all grouchy know-it-all windbag shut-you-down mode, and > ruins > a perfectly good discussion. > > > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:16 PM, andrew wilshusen > wrote: > > > I can't stand myspace either, but it's not as bad as self-righteousness. > > Andrew > > Ev oida oti oudev oida > > > > > > http://www.andrewwilshusen.com > > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Michael Henry > > To: "newmusic at music.mills.edu" > > Sent: Friday, May 9, 2008 2:05:55 PM > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) > > > > > > Kristin Miltner wrote: > > > > >>we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for god's > > sake! it's just friggin myspace! > > > > No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but we > > are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing > > people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the > Bush > > regime. For Gawd's sake. > > > > -MH > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_yltAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > -- > kristin miltner > audio professional > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From cliffcaruthers at gmail.com Fri May 9 16:06:42 2008 From: cliffcaruthers at gmail.com (cliff caruthers) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:06:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] delete button on OT In-Reply-To: References: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nobody is making money on myspace off of the new music community. You could make a convincing argument that new music would be a drag on any money making venture! Support myspace to end the war!! -Cliff On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Brady Sharp wrote: > Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a comparison, all > credibility is lost in the discussion? > > If lefties would quit comparing everything to Hitler, more of society would > probably listen to them. Bring Hitler into it, and the walls go up! > > > Brady > > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:31 PM, kristin miltner > wrote: > > > >> No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but > we > > are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing > > people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the > > Bush > > > > >> regime. For Gawd's sake. > > > > rrrrrgh every time i am on this list for longer than a second someone > > decides to get all grouchy know-it-all windbag shut-you-down mode, and > > ruins > > a perfectly good discussion. > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:16 PM, andrew wilshusen > > > wrote: > > > > > I can't stand myspace either, but it's not as bad as > self-righteousness. > > > Andrew > > > Ev oida oti oudev oida > > > > > > > > > http://www.andrewwilshusen.com > > > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Michael Henry > > > To: "newmusic at music.mills.edu" > > > Sent: Friday, May 9, 2008 2:05:55 PM > > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) > > > > > > > > > Kristin Miltner wrote: > > > > > > >>we're not talking about killing people in vietnam, or hitler, for > god's > > > sake! it's just friggin myspace! > > > > > > No, we're not talking about killing people in Vietnam, or Hitler, but > we > > > are talking about a corporate entity that is proactively propagandizing > > > people into supporting the killing of people in Iraq and supporting the > > Bush > > > regime. For Gawd's sake. > > > > > > -MH > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_yltAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > kristin miltner > > audio professional > > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 16:30:02 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 16:30:02 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. sl Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: y'all: it is now the weekend. remove hands from jugulars. someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form or another making ones daily existence unbearable. From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:03:26 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:03:26 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: eh, picked it up after an extended stay in rural ohio - that's next to west virginny. ie. authentic... ish. being neither dude downstairs, from new england, nor housemate, my condolences for yr aggravation. hand removed from throat. t. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - > my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was > endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was > annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. > > sl > > Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: > y'all: > > it is now the weekend. > > remove hands from jugulars. > > someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. > > props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than > miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form > or another making ones daily existence unbearable. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From bradysharp at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:15:45 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:15:45 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So, us Southern Yokels are held to a lower standard than everyone else? It's OK if we say "Y'all" because we don't know no better?... ;^) I'm currently a Tennessean, but next month I'll be a Southwest Louisianan (?) where they say Y'all even more. They even use it in objective and possessive form, such as "Y'all need to go get Y'all's cars" or "It's good to see y'all", instead of the more familiar subjective "Y'all come back now." North of I-10 is Yankeeland to them, and I'll definitely be the outcast amongst my in-laws. Looking forward to it! Brady On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" > - > my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was > endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was > annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. > > sl > > Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: > y'all: > > it is now the weekend. > > remove hands from jugulars. > > someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. > > props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than > miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form > or another making ones daily existence unbearable. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From polly.moller at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:16:48 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:16:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eb068d40805091716h7e5ddabeu33a4b87bcd241e58@mail.gmail.com> I'm one of those Californians who's adopted the expression because it's gender-neutral. P. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - > my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was > endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was > annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. > > sl > > Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: > y'all: > > it is now the weekend. > > remove hands from jugulars. > > someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. > > props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than > miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form > or another making ones daily existence unbearable. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ ------------------------------------------------------------ From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:31:54 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 20:31:54 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40805091716h7e5ddabeu33a4b87bcd241e58@mail.gmail.com> References: <2eb068d40805091716h7e5ddabeu33a4b87bcd241e58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What's not gender-neutral about "you all...?" On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Polly Moller wrote: > I'm one of those Californians who's adopted the expression because > it's gender-neutral. > P. > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >> Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - >> my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was >> endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was >> annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. >> >> sl >> >> Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: >> y'all: >> >> it is now the weekend. >> >> remove hands from jugulars. >> >> someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. >> >> props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than >> miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form >> or another making ones daily existence unbearable. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.pollymoller.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From polly.moller at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:32:48 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:32:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: <2eb068d40805091716h7e5ddabeu33a4b87bcd241e58@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40805091732t59d1a069qd37f4f72b44de341@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, that's what I'm saying... P. On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Travis Johns wrote: > What's not gender-neutral about "you all...?" > > > > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Polly Moller wrote: >> I'm one of those Californians who's adopted the expression because >> it's gender-neutral. >> P. >> >> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >>> Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - >>> my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was >>> endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was >>> annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. >>> >>> sl >>> >>> Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: >>> y'all: >>> >>> it is now the weekend. >>> >>> remove hands from jugulars. >>> >>> someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. >>> >>> props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than >>> miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form >>> or another making ones daily existence unbearable. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.pollymoller.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ ------------------------------------------------------------ From bthrew at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:35:32 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:35:32 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) References: <7EE3474F-58DF-4BD5-B6EB-E3E9854F0D33@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6A6704A1-198F-4CAB-8663-72FE3B25D710@gmail.com> On May 9, 2008, at 12:32 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > dancing with Hitler In my world, conversations are over as soon as somebody makes an analogy with Hitler. All someone has to do is bring up how myspace somehow hyperbole's to 9/11 now and we will have hit the big two. >> MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about >> trendiness. I don think it has anything to do with "Trendiness" in the sense of something fashionable. I think it was just there at the right place, right time, right features. It's like the Beatles. Great band? Yes. Best band ever for all time OMG?.. up to taste, but its not an unassailable position. But no other band will ever have that title because there won't ever again be such a social climate and control over distribution channels to create a phenomenon like that. Myspace isn't quite the same, but it did get a lot of traction during a certain time. What I think is really interesting was the mass social exodus to facebook. There are a lot of theories about why, but I think it is a pretty inherent trait of these networks and the kind of social information overload they produce. People join a network, and then their core friends, first and second degree connections (people they like) join. After awhile they start getting third degree connections, and thats cool, because you are widening the friend circle, but then after that you start getting people sending you hamburger and clover messages, or BS about George Bush or Ethanol, or whatever and then people that you don't have in your life any more for a reason dilute the signal to noise ratio of the system. These social networks are not even close to permanent, they are like disposable razors. Somebody write a book, the Gillette Theory of Socialization. It can sit right beside the Long Tail and 4 Hour Work Week. bt barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:36:28 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:36:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> Message-ID: On May 8, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > The geeky people that developed the internet intentionally > kept it decentralized to keep it out of the hands of the authorities. Almost right but subtly (and importantly) different. The internet was developed by the US military, back in the day it was called ARPAnet (by DARPA). It was created in a decentralized manner to make it robust in the case of a nuclear attack, as the intended purpose was to be a control network for our defense systems. To this day, the United States is the authority controls the 13 root naming servers that allow you to access every web site, and also the ICANN, which oversees the core structure of the Internet; much to the chagrin of the United Nations. Evidently the rest of the civilized world thinks that they have a right to say something about the operation of our Internet too. It was built specifically so we would have control over it. > So, you can still access every page on the internet with equal ease > (unless you live in those countries that have national firewalls?), > which is pretty much unheard of in the history of information access. Not for long. Primary bandwidth providers are starting to throttle connection speed based on content. Capitalism will kill this "Net Neutrality". We all thought we finally controlled the means of production, but are still riding on someone else's pipes. bt barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:36:53 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:36:53 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <9D7A7712-F25C-4AFF-B919-60F94ED2146E@gmail.com> References: <9D7A7712-F25C-4AFF-B919-60F94ED2146E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7D582084-E5F3-46B4-8724-BC18DF6C68E4@gmail.com> On May 9, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Let's put it this way. If you built your own website from scratch, and > posted your blogs/pet videos/mp3 clips there, would your site pay you > revenue for your content? If you put adwords on there, yes you would. Even if nobody clicked them, but more if they did. Additionally it would be targeted ads, and I for one, welcome our targeted ad overlords. I would much rather see a bunch of ads on stuff I might conceivably want, than the new jeep. barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:37:29 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:37:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda References: <2D112708-DC6D-4A93-B85B-381EB31B4538@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5C7CED2A-ABEC-4CF8-AEE3-CD8FC9104267@gmail.com> On May 9, 2008, at 11:09 AM, Alicia Byer wrote: > and it's just shitty that some asshole owns it and > exploits it. Question: Has anyone noticed a skew in advertisements toward right wing politics since the Murdoch acquisition? I haven't. bt barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Fri May 9 17:38:56 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:38:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda References: Message-ID: <45B7C8A0-66F0-402B-877B-DC19E3B74E16@gmail.com> In Southwest Louisiana its "All Y'All". In related news, I found out none of my posts were getting through...sorry for the torrent...some list admin I am... bt On May 9, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Brady Sharp wrote: > So, us Southern Yokels are held to a lower standard than everyone > else? > It's OK if we say "Y'all" because we don't know no better?... ;^) > > I'm currently a Tennessean, but next month I'll be a Southwest > Louisianan > (?) where they say Y'all even more. They even use it in objective and > possessive form, such as "Y'all need to go get Y'all's cars" or > "It's good > to see y'all", instead of the more familiar subjective "Y'all come > back > now." > > North of I-10 is Yankeeland to them, and I'll definitely be the > outcast > amongst my in-laws. Looking forward to it! > > Brady > > > > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > wrote: > >> Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say >> "y'all" >> - >> my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and >> that was >> endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was >> annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. >> >> sl >> >> Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: >> y'all: >> >> it is now the weekend. >> >> remove hands from jugulars. >> >> someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. >> >> props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than >> miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form >> or another making ones daily existence unbearable. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From gcremaschi at hotmail.com Fri May 9 18:06:19 2008 From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 18:06:19 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >It makes the rest of us liberals look stupid Maybe liberals should look stupid. >I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. Oh boy. Give me convenience, or give me death - Dead Kennedys, I believe, and clearly just as relevant today. >i can't be held responsible for all the americans out there that don't think >before they allow themselves to be manipulated into supporting the war in >iraq and the bush regime! Did you pay taxes last year? >Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a comparison, all >credibility is lost in the discussion? Total agreement - Hitler is just off-limits. Maybe Mussolini? Or Bush? >Capitalism will kill this "Net Neutrality". We all thought we finally controlled the >means of production, but are still riding on someone else's pipes. Bingo! -George _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008 From michaelz at zoka.com Fri May 9 18:34:01 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 18:34:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] delete button on OT In-Reply-To: References: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 5/9/08, Brady Sharp wrote: >Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a comparison, all >credibility is lost in the discussion? > >If lefties would quit comparing everything to Hitler, more of society would >probably listen to them. Bring Hitler into it, and the walls go up! Godwin's Law still applies. MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From bthrew at gmail.com Fri May 9 18:50:43 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 18:50:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] delete button on OT In-Reply-To: References: <101585.88254.qm@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <84E69BDB-B8BE-40DA-A64A-C98E3B0A05C8@gmail.com> Back when everyone was writing cute captions on everything from cats to gays to robots I was going to start a site with captions on old Nazi pictures, and call it Godwin's LOL just to kill the trend. I'm not going to list any of the caption ideas, but needless to say the schadenfreude was breathtaking. bt On May 9, 2008, at 6:34 PM, Michael Zelner wrote: > On 5/9/08, Brady Sharp wrote: > >> Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a >> comparison, all >> credibility is lost in the discussion? >> >> If lefties would quit comparing everything to Hitler, more of >> society would >> probably listen to them. Bring Hitler into it, and the walls go up! > > > Godwin's Law still applies. > > > > MZ > > > --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- > Michael Zelner > ---Oakland CA USA------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Fri May 9 19:25:54 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 19:25:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] y'all poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60BD0932-6E30-400E-A348-B9F219998B53@matthewgoodheart.com> On May 9, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say > "y'all" - Hmmm, isn't it also "African American Vernacular English"? It embedded itself in my newspeak from hanging out with jazz musicians in the early 90's who were of the appropriate vernacular demographic- which I'll cop to being a totally bogus reason to use it: along with "bad" and "cat", which sometimes emerge unbidden from the id (thereby proving I am not only a poser, but a spineless parrot.) I'm thinking of trying to switch to "yous." > > my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that > was > endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was > annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From aliciabyer at gmail.com Fri May 9 20:13:12 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 20:13:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <482512C8.5040605@gmail.com> Yeah, I meant the convenience thing tongue in cheek, hence the (tm). I mean convenient as in running water, electricity and some kind of income. -alicia George Cremaschi wrote: > >> It makes the rest of us liberals look stupid >> > > Maybe liberals should look stupid. > > > >> I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >> seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. >> > > Oh boy. > Give me convenience, or give me death - Dead Kennedys, I believe, and > clearly just as relevant today. > > > >> i can't be held responsible for all the americans out there that don't think >> before they allow themselves to be manipulated into supporting the war in >> iraq and the bush regime! >> > > Did you pay taxes last year? > > > >> Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a comparison, all >> credibility is lost in the discussion? >> > > Total agreement - Hitler is just off-limits. Maybe Mussolini? Or Bush? > > > >> Capitalism will kill this "Net Neutrality". We all thought we finally controlled the >> means of production, but are still riding on someone else's pipes. >> > > Bingo! > > > -George > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008 > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From aliciabyer at gmail.com Fri May 9 21:00:10 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 21:00:10 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48251DCA.2060505@gmail.com> because I know you all want to hear my opinion more... (feel free to ignore) I just think that squabbling over a couple pennies to Murdoch is more of a pissing match than really trying to change anything. I understand the principle and that's why I don't use it, but I'm not going to be all anal toward someone who does... I just wish we would get off our fucking high Perfect Individual horses once in a while and say hi to the neighbors and maybe even LEARN something... -alicia George Cremaschi wrote: > >> It makes the rest of us liberals look stupid >> > > Maybe liberals should look stupid. > > > >> I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't >> seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in America. >> > > Oh boy. > Give me convenience, or give me death - Dead Kennedys, I believe, and > clearly just as relevant today. > > > >> i can't be held responsible for all the americans out there that don't think >> before they allow themselves to be manipulated into supporting the war in >> iraq and the bush regime! >> > > Did you pay taxes last year? > > > >> Doesn't everybody know that as soon as Hitler is used as a comparison, all >> credibility is lost in the discussion? >> > > Total agreement - Hitler is just off-limits. Maybe Mussolini? Or Bush? > > > >> Capitalism will kill this "Net Neutrality". We all thought we finally controlled the >> means of production, but are still riding on someone else's pipes. >> > > Bingo! > > > -George > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008 > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Sat May 10 11:40:20 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 11:40:20 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <48251DCA.2060505@gmail.com> References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> <48251DCA.2060505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0652F557-8B6A-4F78-A2B4-5E0662048796@balancepointacoustics.com> On May 9, 2008, at 9:00 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > because I know you all want to hear my opinion more... (feel free > to ignore) > > I just think that squabbling over a couple pennies to Murdoch is > more of > a pissing match than really trying to change anything. I understand > the > principle and that's why I don't use it, but I'm not going to be all > anal toward someone who does... I just wish we would get off our > fucking > high Perfect Individual horses once in a while and say hi to the > neighbors and maybe even LEARN something... > > -alicia I totally agree. Myspace does a lot for you as musician, we are all involved in all kinds of unethical things by both choice & circumstance, it is pretty lame to cut yourself off from one of the few things that can actually help as a musician in these times. If you want to be high and mighty self righteous - move to Greenland and pitch a tent. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Sat May 10 16:00:50 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 19:00:50 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <0652F557-8B6A-4F78-A2B4-5E0662048796@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> <48251DCA.2060505@gmail.com> <0652F557-8B6A-4F78-A2B4-5E0662048796@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: colorado's closer and just as cold... not to mention there's better chances of finding a top dog-esque joint when the spirit moves ya. but having done that for three-odd months or so, i gotta say that it's pretty damn hard to be righteous when all there is in yr vicinity are a couple of coyotes and an elk or so - cuz, uh, yeah, them's pretty righteous critters both. :) On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Damon Smith wrote: > On May 9, 2008, at 9:00 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > >> because I know you all want to hear my opinion more... (feel free >> to ignore) >> >> I just think that squabbling over a couple pennies to Murdoch is >> more of >> a pissing match than really trying to change anything. I understand >> the >> principle and that's why I don't use it, but I'm not going to be all >> anal toward someone who does... I just wish we would get off our >> fucking >> high Perfect Individual horses once in a while and say hi to the >> neighbors and maybe even LEARN something... >> >> -alicia > > I totally agree. Myspace does a lot for you as musician, we are all > involved in all kinds of unethical things by both choice & > circumstance, it is pretty lame to cut yourself off from one of the > few things that can actually help as a musician in these times. If > you want to be high and mighty self righteous - move to Greenland and > pitch a tent. > > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Sat May 10 16:40:04 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 16:40:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> <48251DCA.2060505@gmail.com> <0652F557-8B6A-4F78-A2B4-5E0662048796@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <856CB048-D4F6-4E53-BEA2-F642FB4898EB@matthewgoodheart.com> > If you want to be high and mighty self righteous - move to Greenland > and pitch a tent. Hey, not a bad real estate investment, considering the way things are going. Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com plus the pro-fascist: http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From bthrew at gmail.com Sat May 10 19:09:15 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 19:09:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <856CB048-D4F6-4E53-BEA2-F642FB4898EB@matthewgoodheart.com> References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> <48251DCA.2060505@gmail.com> <0652F557-8B6A-4F78-A2B4-5E0662048796@balancepointacoustics.com> <856CB048-D4F6-4E53-BEA2-F642FB4898EB@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: <3DD2F9FD-19D7-49F9-9EDE-0B93BA569D80@gmail.com> Except for the fact that it is going to melt into the ocean in 30 years... ...unless we all use Facebook. bt On May 10, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: >> If you want to be high and mighty self righteous - move to Greenland >> and pitch a tent. > > > Hey, not a bad real estate investment, considering the way things are > going. > > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > plus the pro-fascist: http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Sun May 11 09:00:00 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:00:00 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] ::faces:spaces:places:: Message-ID: A Question for the Masses: Come next week, Satellite, being the trio of Liz Meredith, Steini Gunnarsson and myself for those who keep track of these things are hitting the road on the east coast for a final burn before Stiz moves back to Iceland for a while. Current stops on the itin = Chapel Hill, DC, Philly, NYC and Boston. Considering that a lot of you all are much more well-travelled than the three of us, we were wondering if anyone could recommend any other lists, boards, people, places, events calenders or organizations in said places that might be willing to assist with helping to get the word out and about, etcetc. Just figured i'd ask, as would be fitting with this whole community trip i be on these days - anyways, if anything comes to mind, drop me a line off list and we can discuss details without fear of meat-flavored rebuttals. all th best, t. From michaelz at zoka.com Sun May 11 10:00:23 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:00:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Mario Schiano, R.I.P. Message-ID: From another music list: >R.I.P. MARIO SCHIANO (1933-2008) > >Saxophonist Mario Schiano, one of the fathers and initiators of the >Italian free-jazz scene and one of the most influential figures in >European improvised music, passed away after a long illness >yesterday. > >Born in 1933 in Naples, he moved to Rome at the start of the '60s >where he started organizing jazz groups and concerts; his Gruppo >Romano Free Jazz recorded the "manifesto" of Italian Free Jazz in >1970, the memorable "If Not Ecstatic We Refund," but Schiano also >worked with luminaries of radical improv and classic contemporary >music like Musica Elettronica Viva and Nuova Consonanza. His own >groups ranged from duos and trios to the big band, and in recent >years he was an essential voice within the Italian Instabile >Orchestra. > >His brainchild "Controindicazioni" festival -- at its 21st edition >this year -- has been the only regular forum for free improvisation >in Rome for years, regarded as one of the most adventurous music >events in Europe with Berlin's Total Music Meeting and Nickelsdorf's >Konfrontationen. > >http://www.controindicazioni.com/ See also: MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun May 11 13:01:23 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 13:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <607460.82317.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Not sure how I contributed to that idea, but go for it...I would prefer that greatly to improvising with porn.... Also, George (my cat) is ready to audition whenever the camera is ready to roll. PG Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: Phillip - you and Alicia have given me the idea for what could be a highly successful project - improvised music to cat videos. sl Phillip wrote: If I'm lucky, maybe one person will learn to be a better listener due to something I may have created, or have been a part of. That's good enough for me. Maybe one of my students will grow up and embrace a life of artistic expression (poor sap!). Who knows. it's a crap shoot _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun May 11 15:22:41 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 15:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <477509.40253.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Again, I seem to agree with Matthew. Integrity, in the existentialist tradition, is as subjective as it gets because each individual creates their own sense of integrity based on a system of ethics and morals that said individual creates based on their own unique experience of the world. In short, it doesn't get any more subjective.... As an educator, it's sometimes easy to say, "well, I'm helping kids, what's wrong in that?" But I work for two VERY different schools, and both of those schools raise questions in this regard. On one hand, I teach at Oakland School for the Arts, a fine little school that is part public school, part private charter. Up until recently, we had a slough of directors that were shady (it's rumored that the last director bilked big money from the budget to pay off some of his personal debt). And, the school was founded by Jerry Brown, who I have enormous philosophical issues with! And yet, there I am taking their money. The way I see it is that I can do more good by being there (and offering the kids what I think is quality education), than sitting at home criticizing the system. And, I really enjoy working with the students that go there; we seem to have a great working relationship. On the other hand, I teach at SF Waldorf HS, a private school with what seems to be a lot of money (well, they spend a lot, but they don't spend a lot on me!). In addiition to a paycheck, I get a studio to practice, compose, rehearse and record in whenever I want (on off hours). They give me a laptop with protools and four really great microphones and access to other related equipment. But where is the money coming from, and what students are being served at this school? The school is populated with children who have RICH parents (it costs something like 26K a year to send your kid there...more than what it costs at most universities), and who knows where their money comes from (???!!!!!!). When I originally started there, I had big concerns about working with privileged kids. I've been an educator for 20 years now, and up until now I've always worked at schools in economically depressed neighborhoods. So I wondered what it would be like and whether or not I could overcome some of my prejudices about serving people who come from big money. So far so good. What I have come to realize is that all young people need access to quality education regardless of their background (duh!). AND, I really like working with both groups of kids, I truly love my students and care about them a lot. So, when I read someone's words that say, "you have to sell little pieces of your soul in order to make a paycheck" (OK, I've slightly misquoted Alicia here...), I wonder if that's true. I wonder if I can even discern at this point whether or not I'm selling out by being an educator. I do know that if I am selling out, I'm doing it rather cheaply... It seems that I have struck (Matthew's) balance, but who knows if others would view it the same way? It is clear, however, that existential wholeness/integrity or whatever you want to call it is absolutely subjective and it's up to us to stay conscious in this struggle and live the best life we can. PG Matthew Goodheart wrote: > Alicia wrote: > either you sell your soul to the machine little piece by piece, day > by day, or you try > to retain some integrity, which forces you to live on an extreme > fringe > that may warp you and is not always necessarily good for your > objectives > either. > > I'm not saying I have an answer, just pointing out that there doesn't > seem to be a convenient(tm) way to exist with any integrity in > America. I'm not sure that's how I see it. To begin with, this proposes that integrity is some kind of absolute, measurable thing, and a reasonable argument could be made that it's a pretty subjective measurement (such as Mother Theresa's acts vs. her personality. . . apparently personally she was a tyrant). Secondly, it implies that "fringing" equals moral integrity, which I think is a particularly specious cultural meme (and one that lines the pockets of Murdoch as well, actually.) Secondly, the lack of the ability to exist in some kind of absolute moral state is hardly particularly American, I think it's rather an essential nature of the human condition; there is always some systemic evil/good paradox; doesn't matter if it's American, the Roman Empire, fuedalism, the Khwe bushmen, or whatever. We tend to see our own modern problems as the paramount evil, but frankly I'd rather have to deal with trying to survive in the face of corporatism run amok than theocratic absolutism or tribal honor codes. Integrity, it seems to me, rather falls on how one strikes their balance. One cannot exist without participating in systems which create simultaneous positive and negative results. mg From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Sun May 11 15:50:07 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 15:50:07 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: <607460.82317.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <607460.82317.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > improvising with porn Is that what the kids are calling it now? Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com morally questionable autoimprovisation at http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun May 11 16:16:07 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 16:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <346750.42794.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Philip -- I never said you were PAYING FOR IT. But if Bambi clicks on one of the banner ads next to your page there, you are (indirectly) driving revenue right into Rupert's pocket. Even if Bambi doesn't click your banner ad, advertisers look at the number of eyeballs there....and advertisers seeking those millions of eyeballs are adding $1 billion a year to Rupert's bank account. I would never want to take away the joy you experience from Bambi. I just hate to see Bambi help put more money into Rupert's bank account. -MH PG: It sounds like you're saying that because I'm there, despite the fact that I'm not giving them my money directly, my hands are dirty because Bambi (who doesn't actually exist, but is probably a prop for advertising some sex-dating site) has a presence on MS... How is "my relationship" with Bambi making me complicit with Murdoch? The fact that I am there doesn't make Bambi click on that banner ad. She is there on her own free will, and her free will has nothing to do with whether or not I'm using MS. The America I want to live in allows Bambi to exist and advert her business on MS. I choose not to have a relationship with her when she requests my friendship. End of contact - see ya, wouldn't want to be ya. Yes, we're sharing the same digital airwaves for a brief and exhilerating moment, but we are there for different reasons. She doesn't mingle with mine, and I don't mingle with hers...by choice. If you want to get that bug out of your ass, just allow us the freedom to do what we're doing. You'll be surprised how much better you'll feel once that critter crawls out of there. I want to be clear that I'm not bullying activism. When you started this train of thought, you said you were pissed because,people are being hypocritical if they spout an eco-friendly, politically correct ethos and subscribe to MS. Then you asked us to convince you why MS is viable. I'm not spouting an eco-friendly politically correct agenda, nor am I trying to convince you to think like me. What I am offering is that you can acheive liberation by letting go of your expections that others should act like you. It's the kind of liberation Sartre talked about in Trancendence of the Ego, and is a worthwhile pursuit. Great posts by Sarah, Alicia, Goodheart, Kristin, Gino, ludis, et al...(and Mr. Henry for getting us up in arms). From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun May 11 16:50:44 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 16:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <987825.62911.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Most of the kids attending the high school I taught in Watts said "y'all"....that's when I started saying it. I'll stop. <3 PG Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. sl Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: y'all: it is now the weekend. remove hands from jugulars. someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form or another making ones daily existence unbearable. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun May 11 18:10:08 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 18:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Mario Schiano, R.I.P. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <500248.36896.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What a drag....I mean, everyone must pass, but that he suffered a long illness makes me sad. Those recordings with Orchestre Instabile are just so great...I saw them once, a joyous experience! PG Michael Zelner wrote: From another music list: >R.I.P. MARIO SCHIANO (1933-2008) > >Saxophonist Mario Schiano, one of the fathers and initiators of the >Italian free-jazz scene and one of the most influential figures in >European improvised music, passed away after a long illness >yesterday. > >Born in 1933 in Naples, he moved to Rome at the start of the '60s >where he started organizing jazz groups and concerts; his Gruppo >Romano Free Jazz recorded the "manifesto" of Italian Free Jazz in >1970, the memorable "If Not Ecstatic We Refund," but Schiano also >worked with luminaries of radical improv and classic contemporary >music like Musica Elettronica Viva and Nuova Consonanza. His own >groups ranged from duos and trios to the big band, and in recent >years he was an essential voice within the Italian Instabile >Orchestra. > >His brainchild "Controindicazioni" festival -- at its 21st edition >this year -- has been the only regular forum for free improvisation >in Rome for years, regarded as one of the most adventurous music >events in Europe with Berlin's Total Music Meeting and Nickelsdorf's >Konfrontationen. > >http://www.controindicazioni.com/ See also: MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun May 11 18:10:13 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 18:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Mario Schiano, R.I.P. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <102835.77648.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What a drag....I mean, everyone must pass, but that he suffered a long illness makes me sad. Those recordings with Orchestre Instabile are just so great...I saw them once, a joyous experience! PG Michael Zelner wrote: From another music list: >R.I.P. MARIO SCHIANO (1933-2008) > >Saxophonist Mario Schiano, one of the fathers and initiators of the >Italian free-jazz scene and one of the most influential figures in >European improvised music, passed away after a long illness >yesterday. > >Born in 1933 in Naples, he moved to Rome at the start of the '60s >where he started organizing jazz groups and concerts; his Gruppo >Romano Free Jazz recorded the "manifesto" of Italian Free Jazz in >1970, the memorable "If Not Ecstatic We Refund," but Schiano also >worked with luminaries of radical improv and classic contemporary >music like Musica Elettronica Viva and Nuova Consonanza. His own >groups ranged from duos and trios to the big band, and in recent >years he was an essential voice within the Italian Instabile >Orchestra. > >His brainchild "Controindicazioni" festival -- at its 21st edition >this year -- has been the only regular forum for free improvisation >in Rome for years, regarded as one of the most adventurous music >events in Europe with Berlin's Total Music Meeting and Nickelsdorf's >Konfrontationen. > >http://www.controindicazioni.com/ See also: MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pnyboer at slambassador.com Mon May 12 10:55:42 2008 From: pnyboer at slambassador.com (Peter Nyboer) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 10:55:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 25, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46596A8D-F136-4EF0-9617-C5D335862F2A@slambassador.com> Oh, man, that's a great idea. I'm thinking that the ratings for local evening news must really be suffering from youtube - why wait until 6:45 to get your pet story? You can get them ALL DAY on you tube. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=yVjzd320gew > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Phillip - you and Alicia have given me the idea for what could be > a highly > successful project - improvised music to cat videos. From 21grand at 21grand.org Mon May 12 11:10:12 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:10:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Sorry about that ... It was my feeble attempt to change the subject. sl Phillip wrote: Most of the kids attending the high school I taught in Watts said "y'all"....that's when I started saying it. I'll stop. <3 PG From letucepry at yahoo.com Mon May 12 11:31:17 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: <760699.10315.qm@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> But what are the rest of us to do with our lack of back-formed second person recursive pluralizations? thou, you, yous thou, you, y'all thou, you, yous guys????? lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Phillip Greenlief To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:50:44 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Most of the kids attending the high school I taught in Watts said "y'all"....that's when I started saying it. ? ? I'll stop. ? ? <3 ? PG ? Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: ? Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. sl Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: y'all: it is now the weekend. remove hands from jugulars. someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form or another making ones daily existence unbearable. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Mon May 12 11:36:22 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:36:22 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <760699.10315.qm@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <760699.10315.qm@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2321B028-31CF-424D-814B-C98F34E2F89C@matthewgoodheart.com> don't forget "yernses" On May 12, 2008, at 11:31 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote: > But what are the rest of us to do with our lack of back-formed > second person recursive pluralizations? > thou, you, yous > thou, you, y'all > thou, you, yous guys????? > lettuce > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Phillip Greenlief > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:50:44 PM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda > > Most of the kids attending the high school I taught in Watts said > "y'all"....that's when I started saying it. > > I'll stop. > > <3 > PG > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say > "y'all" - > my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that > was > endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was > annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. > > sl > > Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: > y'all: > > it is now the weekend. > > remove hands from jugulars. > > someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. > > props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than > miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form > or another making ones daily existence unbearable. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Mon May 12 11:37:19 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:37:19 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <760699.10315.qm@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <760699.10315.qm@web50312.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ...too many syllables, not enough contractions? who knows... yergh, the powers that be had me covering a 6th grade english class today, with a quiz included on the subject of comma usage. even with an EXTREMELY thorough explanation of correct and proper usage of said punctuation, I'd say a good 70 percent of the kids failed said quizzums... That said, outside of corpocracies, environmental disasters, and tortuous death by inane cat videos, the future, it is doomed. prove me wrong, kids. prove me wrong. On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Ron Lettuce wrote: > But what are the rest of us to do with our lack of back-formed second person recursive pluralizations? > thou, you, yous > thou, you, y'all > thou, you, yous guys????? > lettuce > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Phillip Greenlief > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 4:50:44 PM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda > > Most of the kids attending the high school I taught in Watts said "y'all"....that's when I started saying it. > > I'll stop. > > <3 > PG > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Since college, it has generally bugged me when non-Southerners say "y'all" - > my college roommate was from Tennessee and she said "y'all" and that was > endearing. When the dude downstairs from New Jersey said it, it was > annoying. Ditto for the housemates from Yankeeland, er, New England. > > sl > > Travis (not a Tennessean) wrote: > y'all: > > it is now the weekend. > > remove hands from jugulars. > > someone for the love of god please talk about sausage or something. > > props on the post, alicia. its nice to read something other than > miniscule gripes on some obscure societal nuance that is in some form > or another making ones daily existence unbearable. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From miltnerunit at gmail.com Mon May 12 11:53:43 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:53:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <346750.42794.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <346750.42794.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Phillip for being such a good and thorough mediator. I am still mulling over your posts. Did anyone hear Michael Krasny talking about myspace vs. facebook this morning? It seemed a little beyond him. For one who is so well-educated across a broad spectrum of topics, this show actually made him seem a little out of touch. I knew about myspace making everyone's profile information portable to other networking sites ("spreading their tentacles" i think someone in this conversation said earlier) but i learned also that facebook will be doing that as well. It seems to be driven by what users want to do; maybe it's us pushing them toward unifying into one big giant social networking monopoly. LinkedFaceSpace. k On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > Dear Philip -- > > I never said you were PAYING FOR IT. > > But if Bambi clicks on one of the banner ads next to your page there, you > are (indirectly) driving revenue right into Rupert's pocket. Even if Bambi > doesn't click your banner ad, advertisers look at the number of eyeballs > there....and advertisers seeking those millions of eyeballs are adding $1 > billion a year to Rupert's bank account. > > I would never want to take away the joy you experience from Bambi. I just > hate to see Bambi help put more money into Rupert's bank account. > > > -MH > > > > PG: > > It sounds like you're saying that because I'm there, despite the fact that > I'm not giving them my money directly, my hands are dirty because Bambi (who > doesn't actually exist, but is probably a prop for advertising some > sex-dating site) has a presence on MS... > > How is "my relationship" with Bambi making me complicit with Murdoch? > > The fact that I am there doesn't make Bambi click on that banner ad. She > is there on her own free will, and her free will has nothing to do with > whether or not I'm using MS. > > The America I want to live in allows Bambi to exist and advert her > business on MS. I choose not to have a relationship with her when she > requests my friendship. End of contact - see ya, wouldn't want to be ya. > Yes, we're sharing the same digital airwaves for a brief and exhilerating > moment, but we are there for different reasons. She doesn't mingle with > mine, and I don't mingle with hers...by choice. > > If you want to get that bug out of your ass, just allow us the freedom to > do what we're doing. You'll be surprised how much better you'll feel once > that critter crawls out of there. > > I want to be clear that I'm not bullying activism. When you started this > train of thought, you said you were pissed because,people are being > hypocritical if they spout an eco-friendly, politically correct ethos and > subscribe to MS. Then you asked us to convince you why MS is viable. > > I'm not spouting an eco-friendly politically correct agenda, nor am I > trying to convince you to think like me. What I am offering is that you can > acheive liberation by letting go of your expections that others should act > like you. It's the kind of liberation Sartre talked about in Trancendence of > the Ego, and is a worthwhile pursuit. > > Great posts by Sarah, Alicia, Goodheart, Kristin, Gino, ludis, et > al...(and Mr. Henry for getting us up in arms). > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From miltnerunit at gmail.com Mon May 12 12:00:30 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:00:30 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: <346750.42794.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: oh whoa, guys, check this out: Google announced a new free service from the Mountain View, Calif., tech giant that will allow any Web site to become a social site." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051200823.html?hpid=topnews On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:53 AM, kristin miltner wrote: > Thanks to Phillip for being such a good and thorough mediator. I am still > mulling over your posts. Did anyone hear Michael Krasny talking about > myspace vs. facebook this morning? It seemed a little beyond him. For one > who is so well-educated across a broad spectrum of topics, this show > actually made him seem a little out of touch. > > I knew about myspace making everyone's profile information portable to > other networking sites ("spreading their tentacles" i think someone in this > conversation said earlier) but i learned also that facebook will be doing > that as well. It seems to be driven by what users want to do; maybe it's us > pushing them toward unifying into one big giant social networking monopoly. > LinkedFaceSpace. > > > k > > > On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Phillip Greenlief > wrote: > >> Dear Philip -- >> >> I never said you were PAYING FOR IT. >> >> But if Bambi clicks on one of the banner ads next to your page there, you >> are (indirectly) driving revenue right into Rupert's pocket. Even if Bambi >> doesn't click your banner ad, advertisers look at the number of eyeballs >> there....and advertisers seeking those millions of eyeballs are adding $1 >> billion a year to Rupert's bank account. >> >> I would never want to take away the joy you experience from Bambi. I just >> hate to see Bambi help put more money into Rupert's bank account. >> >> >> -MH >> >> >> >> PG: >> >> It sounds like you're saying that because I'm there, despite the fact >> that I'm not giving them my money directly, my hands are dirty because Bambi >> (who doesn't actually exist, but is probably a prop for advertising some >> sex-dating site) has a presence on MS... >> >> How is "my relationship" with Bambi making me complicit with Murdoch? >> >> The fact that I am there doesn't make Bambi click on that banner ad. She >> is there on her own free will, and her free will has nothing to do with >> whether or not I'm using MS. >> >> The America I want to live in allows Bambi to exist and advert her >> business on MS. I choose not to have a relationship with her when she >> requests my friendship. End of contact - see ya, wouldn't want to be ya. >> Yes, we're sharing the same digital airwaves for a brief and exhilerating >> moment, but we are there for different reasons. She doesn't mingle with >> mine, and I don't mingle with hers...by choice. >> >> If you want to get that bug out of your ass, just allow us the freedom to >> do what we're doing. You'll be surprised how much better you'll feel once >> that critter crawls out of there. >> >> I want to be clear that I'm not bullying activism. When you started this >> train of thought, you said you were pissed because,people are being >> hypocritical if they spout an eco-friendly, politically correct ethos and >> subscribe to MS. Then you asked us to convince you why MS is viable. >> >> I'm not spouting an eco-friendly politically correct agenda, nor am I >> trying to convince you to think like me. What I am offering is that you can >> acheive liberation by letting go of your expections that others should act >> like you. It's the kind of liberation Sartre talked about in Trancendence of >> the Ego, and is a worthwhile pursuit. >> >> Great posts by Sarah, Alicia, Goodheart, Kristin, Gino, ludis, et >> al...(and Mr. Henry for getting us up in arms). >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > kristin miltner > audio professional > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From letucepry at yahoo.com Mon May 12 13:56:05 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: <340234.31450.qm@web50303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Great, now Rupert Murdoc will be able to post his banner ads to my personal website which I pay for...Not to mention Bambi and all of her other sorority sister friends who will have thier bots overrunning my website... ----- Original Message ---- From: kristin miltner To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:00:30 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) oh whoa, guys, check this out: Google announced a new free service from the Mountain View, Calif., tech giant that will allow any Web site to become a social site." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051200823.html?hpid=topnews On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:53 AM, kristin miltner wrote: > Thanks to Phillip for being such a good and thorough mediator. I am still > mulling over your posts. Did anyone hear Michael Krasny talking about > myspace vs. facebook this morning? It seemed a little beyond him. For one > who is? so well-educated across a broad spectrum of topics, this show > actually made him seem a little out of touch. > > I knew about myspace making everyone's profile information portable to > other networking sites ("spreading their tentacles" i think someone in this > conversation said earlier) but i learned also that facebook will be doing > that as well. It seems to be driven by what users want to do; maybe it's us > pushing them toward unifying into one big giant social networking monopoly. > LinkedFaceSpace. > > > k > > > On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Phillip Greenlief > wrote: > >>? Dear Philip -- >> >> I never said you were PAYING FOR IT. >> >> But if Bambi clicks on one of the banner ads next to your page there, you >> are (indirectly) driving revenue right into Rupert's pocket. Even if Bambi >> doesn't click your banner ad, advertisers look at the number of eyeballs >> there....and advertisers seeking those millions of eyeballs are adding $1 >> billion a year to Rupert's bank account. >> >> I would never want to take away the joy you experience from Bambi. I just >> hate to see Bambi help put more money into Rupert's bank account. >> >> >> -MH >> >> >> >>? PG: >> >>? It sounds like you're saying that because I'm there, despite the fact >> that I'm not giving them my money directly, my hands are dirty because Bambi >> (who doesn't actually exist, but is probably a prop for advertising some >> sex-dating site) has a presence on MS... >> >>? How is "my relationship" with Bambi making me complicit with Murdoch? >> >>? The fact that I am there doesn't make Bambi click on that banner ad. She >> is there on her own free will, and her free will has nothing to do with >> whether or not I'm using MS. >> >>? The America I want to live in allows Bambi to exist and advert her >> business on MS. I choose not to have a relationship with her when she >> requests my friendship. End of contact - see ya, wouldn't want to be ya. >>? Yes, we're sharing the same digital airwaves for a brief and exhilerating >> moment, but we are there for different reasons. She doesn't mingle with >> mine, and I don't mingle with hers...by choice. >> >>? If you want to get that bug out of your ass, just allow us the freedom to >> do what we're doing. You'll be surprised how much better you'll feel once >> that critter crawls out of there. >> >>? I want to be clear that I'm not bullying activism. When you started this >> train of thought, you said you were pissed because,people are being >> hypocritical if they spout an eco-friendly, politically correct ethos and >> subscribe to MS.? Then you asked us to convince you why MS is viable. >> >>? I'm not spouting an eco-friendly politically correct agenda, nor am I >> trying to convince you to think like me. What I am offering is that you can >> acheive liberation by letting go of your expections that others should act >> like you. It's the kind of liberation Sartre talked about in Trancendence of >> the Ego, and is a worthwhile pursuit. >> >>? Great posts by Sarah, Alicia, Goodheart, Kristin, Gino, ludis, et >> al...(and Mr. Henry for getting us up in arms). >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > kristin miltner > audio professional > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue May 13 09:41:02 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:41:02 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/design/14rauschenberg.html?hp Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From letucepry at yahoo.com Tue May 13 09:54:55 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Message-ID: <674860.96041.qm@web50301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I was waiting for Damon to bring that up... ----- Original Message ---- From: Damon Smith To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:41:02 AM Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/design/14rauschenberg.html?hp Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue May 13 10:15:03 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:15:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg In-Reply-To: <674860.96041.qm@web50301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <674860.96041.qm@web50301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13388220-3CFB-4DC9-B044-09F60E363628@balancepointacoustics.com> This is a nice video about the erased De Kooning: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tpCWh3IFtDQ I believe Cage got the idea for 4'33" from his white paintings. SFMOMA has one, with a Dan Flavin shining on it. On May 13, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote: > I was waiting for Damon to bring that up... > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Damon Smith > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:41:02 AM > Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/design/14rauschenberg.html?hp > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From letucepry at yahoo.com Tue May 13 10:28:49 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Message-ID: <229792.99847.qm@web50309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Damon, Thank you for having the concentration to wade through youtube to get to the stuff actually worth watching... All I get when I go there is kitties on treadmills, and Yngwie Malmsteen videos... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Damon Smith To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:15:03 AM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg This is a nice video about the erased De Kooning: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tpCWh3IFtDQ I believe Cage got the idea for 4'33" from his white paintings.? SFMOMA has one, with a Dan Flavin shining on it. On May 13, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote: > I was waiting for Damon to bring that up... > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Damon Smith > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:41:02 AM > Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/design/14rauschenberg.html?hp > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue May 13 10:44:00 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:44:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Message-ID: Ron, I take it you've seen this then, combining kitties and Malmsteen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zz4ufzu_0k sl Ron taunted: Damon, Thank you for having the concentration to wade through youtube to get to the stuff actually worth watching... All I get when I go there is kitties on treadmills, and Yngwie Malmsteen videos... lettuce From letucepry at yahoo.com Tue May 13 14:27:15 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Message-ID: <435395.27618.qm@web50305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> At 376 views = 1.56KWh?=?2.26 Pounds of Carbon Emissions. These demon CAT GUITARISTS are the TRUE HITLERS...every one of them! The polar ice caps are melting for their INFAMY!!! lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:44:00 AM Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Ron, I take it you've seen this then, combining kitties and Malmsteen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zz4ufzu_0k sl Ron taunted: Damon, Thank you for having the concentration to wade through youtube to get to the stuff actually worth watching... All I get when I go there is kitties on treadmills, and Yngwie Malmsteen videos... lettuce _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From letucepry at yahoo.com Tue May 13 14:43:35 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon Rain... Message-ID: <700956.18993.qm@web50302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry, couldn't help it, while I had the numbers handy...Chocolate Rain = 620,775+ POUNDS of Carbon Emissions (I rounded down)... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Lettuce To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 2:27:15 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg At 376 views = 1.56KWh?=?2.26 Pounds of Carbon Emissions. These demon CAT GUITARISTS are the TRUE HITLERS...every one of them! The polar ice caps are melting for their INFAMY!!! lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:44:00 AM Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg Ron, I take it you've seen this then, combining kitties and Malmsteen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zz4ufzu_0k sl Ron taunted: Damon, Thank you for having the concentration to wade through youtube to get to the stuff actually worth watching... All I get when I go there is kitties on treadmills, and Yngwie Malmsteen videos... lettuce _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From weaselw at juno.com Wed May 14 17:53:30 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:53:30 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] can anybody in the hood loan me an optical cable for an hour? Message-ID: <20080514.175331.1872.30.weaselw@juno.com> i need access to a 3.5 mm (1/8 mini-plug) optical cable to dump a last-minute digital project . . . can anybody loan me one post haste? i can't find a place to get one and i'm under a severe deadline. thanks. ww weasel walter From liberatednsf at yahoo.com Wed May 14 18:10:28 2008 From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Rauschenberg was Carbon poop Message-ID: <110508.54097.qm@web30502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Erased De Kooning" was a wonderful political protest against the greedy oil painters who wantonly continue to deplete our natural resources using oil based paints even though alternatives have been available for millenia.? But now that Rupert Murdoch has bought the painting, anyone who looks at it is basically supporting fascism. andrew ps- i posted this message telapathically (anyone tuned in with the universe as well as I can do these things), so as not to be one of you electricity wasting people who don't even care about the coal miners making slave wages, or the dams destroying natural habitats or the widmills creating eyesores on 580 which I only know about from pictures because I would never get near to a motorized vehicle.? I also stopped exhaling so as not be part of the global warming epidemic.? it goes without saying, but if more people were like me, the world would be a better place. ?Ev oida oti oudev oida http://www.andrewwilshusen.com http://oudevoida.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Damon Smith To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 10:15:03 AM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg This is a nice video about the erased De Kooning: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tpCWh3IFtDQ I believe Cage got the idea for 4'33" from his white paintings.? SFMOMA has one, with a Dan Flavin shining on it. On May 13, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Ron Lettuce wrote: > I was waiting for Damon to bring that up... > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Damon Smith > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:41:02 AM > Subject: [NewMusic] R.I.P Robert Rauschenberg > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/arts/design/14rauschenberg.html?hp > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From ava.mendoza at gmail.com Wed May 14 19:14:56 2008 From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:14:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] van? Message-ID: <317505170805141914x8778532i8283ecf697c21064@mail.gmail.com> Hi out there, This is a haphazard, semi-last minute call out for anyone who might have a van they would be interested in renting out to a band called Mute Socialite May 21-26th. We would be driving as far as Seattle on tour.. we are all very responsible drivers and clean people, and would pay whatever you thought was reasonable. Let me know if interested! Thanks, Ava From djcypod at gmail.com Thu May 15 23:47:01 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:47:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Electronet Podcast 4 Message-ID: Jazz and Electronica mix from eclectic artists of the San Francisco Bay Area: Inner Ear Brigade "Sans" Belly Brain Mood Doculators "Jam-585- Session #38 from Sky Hall Studio Build128 "Painkillers" Daly City Records SF Laptop Battle 2007 Silicon Breakdown "Mutate Part 2" Synthetic Mad Science 2000 The Culprits "Live From the Element Lounge" Budget Cuts Music http://cypod.blogspot.com/ From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri May 16 16:40:50 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 16:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] last minute call to play improvised music tonight at socah cafe in the mission In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <884850.36777.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hey folks, saxophonist patrick briener is in town and has a gig tonight at socah cafe from 8 - 10 in the lower mission (mission below cesar chavez). i was trying to connect him with some folks to play the gig, but it didn't work out. if anyone is interested in going down there tonight from 8 - 10 and doing some improvised music with him, give him a ring....he's a nice player that came recommended through my pal tony malaby on the east coast. please extend some bay area hospitality and drop by and make some music. the socah cafe gig is tonight, friday the 16th let him know if you're interested. you can reach him at: patrick briener 443 939 4844 From thomblum at pacbell.net Sat May 17 21:55:27 2008 From: thomblum at pacbell.net (Thom Blum) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 21:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Kosman Wold/"Mordake" interview Message-ID: <224272.53494.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/16/PK1C10JB6N.DTL From mattdavignon at gmail.com Sat May 17 23:22:48 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 23:22:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] newmusic yard sale Message-ID: Ok, I mentioned several months ago that I was having a yard sale. Well, I'm going to have it next weekend. I'll be both giving away things, and selling more valuable things, which include music items (instruments/amps), music-related items (cd cases, etc), and non-music items (bookshelves, clothes, etc) Does anybody want to bring their unwanted items and co-yard sale with me? It will be at my apartment building, which is between Lake Merritt and Piedmont Ave in Oakland. Most likely on Saturday, during yard sale hours (9am to early afternoon). Also, does anybody need moving boxes? Matt From lx.rudis at gmail.com Sun May 18 16:12:24 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:12:24 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] newmusic yard sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7272233a0805181612r31e93852i5b8cbfb70b08470f@mail.gmail.com> i'm in. some lucky new musiker may get a casio SK-1 out of this! thanks matt! On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:22 PM, Matt Davignon wrote: > > Does anybody want to bring their unwanted items and co-yard sale with me? From mattdavignon at gmail.com Sun May 18 16:34:44 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:34:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] newmusic yard sale In-Reply-To: <7272233a0805181612r31e93852i5b8cbfb70b08470f@mail.gmail.com> References: <7272233a0805181612r31e93852i5b8cbfb70b08470f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: or 2! On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 4:12 PM, lx rudis wrote: > i'm in. some lucky new musiker may get a casio SK-1 out of this! > > thanks matt! > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:22 PM, Matt Davignon > wrote: > > > > > Does anybody want to bring their unwanted items and co-yard sale with me? > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From olorin at lmi.net Mon May 19 01:13:59 2008 From: olorin at lmi.net (olorin at lmi.net) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 01:13:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] yard sale - i'm in! Message-ID: <20080519011359.987h3fn0tkokw04k@webmail.lmi.net> sounds like an unbelievably excellent idea. i will have tons of wireless and lav mics and a few boundary mics to unload, possibly a mixer. i got two 6 foot folding tables available for display - it will be outside, right? scott From mattdavignon at gmail.com Mon May 19 09:12:22 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 09:12:22 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] yard sale - i'm in! In-Reply-To: <20080519011359.987h3fn0tkokw04k@webmail.lmi.net> References: <20080519011359.987h3fn0tkokw04k@webmail.lmi.net> Message-ID: Yup - outside at 265 Vernon St. on Saturday. Most likely yard sale hours (9am to 4pm or something) On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:13 AM, wrote: > sounds like an unbelievably excellent idea. i will have tons of > wireless and lav mics and a few boundary mics to unload, possibly a > mixer. i got two 6 foot folding tables available for display - it will > be outside, right? > > scott > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From polly.moller at gmail.com Mon May 19 09:29:01 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 09:29:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] yard sale - i'm in! In-Reply-To: References: <20080519011359.987h3fn0tkokw04k@webmail.lmi.net> Message-ID: <2eb068d40805190929l53c32212sca9e9c542393d1ba@mail.gmail.com> I'm in with my big SKB rolling case for rack-mounted gear (nicknamed "Dr. Monolith") and a soft case for a bass guitar, and other stuff as I uncover it. P. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Yup - outside at 265 Vernon St. on Saturday. Most likely yard sale hours > (9am to 4pm or something) > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:13 AM, wrote: > >> sounds like an unbelievably excellent idea. i will have tons of >> wireless and lav mics and a few boundary mics to unload, possibly a >> mixer. i got two 6 foot folding tables available for display - it will >> be outside, right? >> >> scott >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ ------------------------------------------------------------ From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Mon May 19 10:17:28 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] newmusic yard sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <517335.32637.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm in...I have stuff I would like to bring/sell. So, that's "next" weekend, as in this coming weekend? Cheers, PG Matt Davignon wrote: Ok, I mentioned several months ago that I was having a yard sale. Well, I'm going to have it next weekend. I'll be both giving away things, and selling more valuable things, which include music items (instruments/amps), music-related items (cd cases, etc), and non-music items (bookshelves, clothes, etc) Does anybody want to bring their unwanted items and co-yard sale with me? It will be at my apartment building, which is between Lake Merritt and Piedmont Ave in Oakland. Most likely on Saturday, during yard sale hours (9am to early afternoon). Also, does anybody need moving boxes? Matt _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From lx.rudis at gmail.com Mon May 19 10:18:46 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:18:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] newmusic yard sale In-Reply-To: <517335.32637.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <517335.32637.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0805191018s444fea06n9a41953be52bab29@mail.gmail.com> ...gonna craigslist this thing? sure would like to see some strangers shopping... From matt at sfsound.org Mon May 19 19:06:59 2008 From: matt at sfsound.org (matt) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:06:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops References: Message-ID: <9A48B262-FAB9-440B-BD8F-5D7655CBBD02@sfsound.org> Begin forwarded message: > From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" > > Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT > To: matt at sfsound.org > Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops > Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" > > > Hello, > > The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a > series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to > you. > > Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold > these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or > people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this > email to anyone you think will be interested. > > SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these > workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print > out the announcement! > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e > > > The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this > program can continue. We also believe these events will be an > opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share > valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing > a chamber ensemble. > > The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, > 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic > Community Meeting Room (50 seats) > > > > June 4, 2008 - 10 am > > Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals > > This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an > effective in-house campaign. > > June 11, 2008 - 10am > > Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an > Integrated Campaign > > This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with > public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first > class or taken on its own. > > More information: > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 > > Registration: > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c > > > Please forward this email to your friends. > > San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music > 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 > San Francisco, California 94118 > > Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: > http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html > > m@ From aurorarising at hotmail.com Tue May 20 00:45:59 2008 From: aurorarising at hotmail.com (~ Aurora ~) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 00:45:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Pictures + Video Message-ID: Monochrom + Smith/Walter/Josephson @ 21Grand & Colley/Lanz/Elf Ass @ Terminal http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/Monochrom/5.9.08.html Hubsch/Robair/Greenlief/Josephson @ True Love (Sacramento) http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/Hubsch/5.5.08.html Final BBQ @ 1510 http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/1510BBQ/4.27.08.html Chicago - Velvet Lounge/Brown Rice http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/Chicago/4.9.08.html Absinthe Party @ 1510 http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/Absinthe_Party/4.7.08.html Kjell Nordeson & Jon Ingle + Ed Rodriguez & John Dieterich (Deerhoof) + Jacob Lindsay, Weasel Walter & Aurora Josephson @ 1510 Performance Space http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/N_I_Hoof/3.9.08.html Jack Wright/Tom Djill/Aurora Josephson @ Luggage Store http://www.aurorarising.com/Images/Events/Wright/3.6.08.html --- Aurora Josephson http://www.aurorarising.com http://youtube.com/aur0rarising http://www.myspace.com/aurorarisingmusic From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Tue May 20 13:03:32 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:03:32 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <9A48B262-FAB9-440B-BD8F-5D7655CBBD02@sfsound.org> References: <9A48B262-FAB9-440B-BD8F-5D7655CBBD02@sfsound.org> Message-ID: so, uh, thought: why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate myspace? sign up to teach html! ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. or analog circuit design. or max/msp. or writing an effective bio. or advanced sausage grilling techniques. etc.etc.etc. you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... eh, just thought id throw it out there. word up. t. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" > > >> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >> To: matt at sfsound.org >> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" > > >> >> Hello, >> >> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >> you. >> >> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >> email to anyone you think will be interested. >> >> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >> out the announcement! >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >> >> >> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >> a chamber ensemble. >> >> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >> >> >> >> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >> >> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >> >> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >> effective in-house campaign. >> >> June 11, 2008 - 10am >> >> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >> Integrated Campaign >> >> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >> class or taken on its own. >> >> More information: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >> >> Registration: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >> >> >> Please forward this email to your friends. >> > >> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >> San Francisco, California 94118 >> >> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >> >> > > m@ > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue May 20 15:14:28 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <377908.44734.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. but yeah, someone should do it.. pg Travis Johns wrote: so, uh, thought: why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate myspace? sign up to teach html! ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. or analog circuit design. or max/msp. or writing an effective bio. or advanced sausage grilling techniques. etc.etc.etc. you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... eh, just thought id throw it out there. word up. t. On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >> To: matt at sfsound.org >> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >> >> Hello, >> >> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >> you. >> >> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >> email to anyone you think will be interested. >> >> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >> out the announcement! >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >> >> >> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >> a chamber ensemble. >> >> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >> >> >> >> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >> >> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >> >> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >> effective in-house campaign. >> >> June 11, 2008 - 10am >> >> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >> Integrated Campaign >> >> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >> class or taken on its own. >> >> More information: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >> >> Registration: >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >> >> >> Please forward this email to your friends. >> > >> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >> San Francisco, California 94118 >> >> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >> >> > > m@ > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Tue May 20 18:02:29 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:02:29 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <377908.44734.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <377908.44734.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. if past instances of salonery have proven futile in the past, we could always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" or something - offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or something, lunch in the middle), really plan it out to iron out any lacksadaysical whathaveyous out of the system and throw something together that's like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when the time seems right, offer another string of classes/sessions, etc, - hopefully building on the acclaim of the first round. if those go well, we plan another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around and reminisce about the first two sessions or something. so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested in teaching anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? cooking? making sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical blunder tweezed from this post? all hands on deck. ...cricket says chirp. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief reminisced: > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. > > but yeah, someone should do it.. > > pg > > > > > Travis Johns wrote: > so, uh, thought: > > why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, > revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of > workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate > myspace? sign up to teach html! > > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. > > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. > > or analog circuit design. > > or max/msp. > > or writing an effective bio. > > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. > > etc.etc.etc. > > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our > particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like > it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent > fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... > eh, just thought id throw it out there. > > word up. > > t. > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >>> To: matt at sfsound.org >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >>> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >>> you. >>> >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >>> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >>> >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >>> out the announcement! >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >>> >>> >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >>> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >>> a chamber ensemble. >>> >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >>> >>> >>> >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >>> >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >>> >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >>> effective in-house campaign. >>> >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >>> >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >>> Integrated Campaign >>> >>> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >>> class or taken on its own. >>> >>> More information: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >>> >>> Registration: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >>> >>> >>> Please forward this email to your friends. >>> >> >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >>> San Francisco, California 94118 >>> >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >>> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >>> >>> >> >> m@ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Tue May 20 18:04:43 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:04:43 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: References: <377908.44734.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ...and of those grammatical blunders... yah. remember kids, always proofread your manifestos before clicking send - better reception that way. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Travis Johns wrote: > eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. > > if past instances of salonery have proven futile in the past, we could > always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" or something - > offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or something, lunch in the > middle), really plan it out to iron out any lacksadaysical > whathaveyous out of the system and throw something together that's > like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when the time seems > right, offer another string of classes/sessions, etc, - hopefully > building on the acclaim of the first round. if those go well, we plan > another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around and reminisce about > the first two sessions or something. > > so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested in teaching > anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? cooking? making > sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical blunder tweezed from > this post? all hands on deck. > > > > ...cricket says chirp. > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief > reminisced: >> I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. >> >> but yeah, someone should do it.. >> >> pg >> >> >> >> >> Travis Johns wrote: >> so, uh, thought: >> >> why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, >> revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of >> workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate >> myspace? sign up to teach html! >> >> ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. >> >> or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. >> >> or analog circuit design. >> >> or max/msp. >> >> or writing an effective bio. >> >> or advanced sausage grilling techniques. >> >> etc.etc.etc. >> >> you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our >> particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like >> it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, >> i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said >> nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent >> fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... >> eh, just thought id throw it out there. >> >> word up. >> >> t. >> >> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >>> >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >>>> To: matt at sfsound.org >>>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >>>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >>>> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >>>> you. >>>> >>>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >>>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >>>> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >>>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >>>> >>>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >>>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >>>> out the announcement! >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >>>> >>>> >>>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >>>> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >>>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >>>> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >>>> a chamber ensemble. >>>> >>>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >>>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >>>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >>>> >>>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >>>> >>>> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >>>> effective in-house campaign. >>>> >>>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >>>> >>>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >>>> Integrated Campaign >>>> >>>> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >>>> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >>>> class or taken on its own. >>>> >>>> More information: >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >>>> >>>> Registration: >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >>>> >>>> >>>> Please forward this email to your friends. >>>> >>> >>>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >>>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >>>> San Francisco, California 94118 >>>> >>>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >>>> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> m@ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue May 20 18:06:17 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <626199.58465.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would do it. I never got the chance to lead a workshop at improvgarage.... I would do one on alternative forms and methods of composition/improvisation. pg Travis Johns wrote: eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. if past instances of salonery have proven futile in the past, we could always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" or something - offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or something, lunch in the middle), really plan it out to iron out any lacksadaysical whathaveyous out of the system and throw something together that's like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when the time seems right, offer another string of classes/sessions, etc, - hopefully building on the acclaim of the first round. if those go well, we plan another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around and reminisce about the first two sessions or something. so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested in teaching anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? cooking? making sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical blunder tweezed from this post? all hands on deck. ...cricket says chirp. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief reminisced: > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. > > but yeah, someone should do it.. > > pg > > > > > Travis Johns wrote: > so, uh, thought: > > why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, > revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of > workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate > myspace? sign up to teach html! > > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. > > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. > > or analog circuit design. > > or max/msp. > > or writing an effective bio. > > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. > > etc.etc.etc. > > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our > particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like > it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent > fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... > eh, just thought id throw it out there. > > word up. > > t. > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >>> To: matt at sfsound.org >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >>> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >>> you. >>> >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >>> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >>> >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >>> out the announcement! >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >>> >>> >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >>> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >>> a chamber ensemble. >>> >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >>> >>> >>> >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >>> >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >>> >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >>> effective in-house campaign. >>> >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >>> >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >>> Integrated Campaign >>> >>> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >>> class or taken on its own. >>> >>> More information: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >>> >>> Registration: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >>> >>> >>> Please forward this email to your friends. >>> >> >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >>> San Francisco, California 94118 >>> >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >>> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >>> >>> >> >> m@ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From jon_raskin at yahoo.com Tue May 20 19:50:59 2008 From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 19:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: <484476.82827.qm@web55615.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Okay, I'll bite Here are things I would be interested in. Teaching: Saxophone Multiphonics and extended techniques Workshop: throat singing, work with people interested in throat singing to see if something intersting can be arrived at. Workshop: low fi electronics, non notebook derived electronic sounds I have studio that they could take place in. Suggestion: how about setting it up along the lines of open studios and than try and pull general audience as well? Rova has been try to build an audience for our Improv21 series which invites improvising musicians/composers to discuss improvisation in their work. It has been a struggle to get much of an audience so I'm leary of how this will be put on without strong organizational support by someone. Over the years, this has been tried, even with some funding and it's been great on content and sad on attendance. Jon Raskin ----- Original Message ---- From: Travis Johns To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:02:29 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. if past instances of salonery have proven futile in the past, we could always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" or something - offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or something, lunch in the middle), really plan it out to iron out any lacksadaysical whathaveyous out of the system and throw something together that's like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when the time seems right, offer another string of classes/sessions, etc, - hopefully building on the acclaim of the first round. if those go well, we plan another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around and reminisce about the first two sessions or something. so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested in teaching anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? cooking? making sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical blunder tweezed from this post? all hands on deck. ...cricket says chirp. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief reminisced: > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. > > but yeah, someone should do it.. > > pg > > > > > Travis Johns wrote: > so, uh, thought: > > why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, > revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of > workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate > myspace? sign up to teach html! > > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. > > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. > > or analog circuit design. > > or max/msp. > > or writing an effective bio. > > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. > > etc.etc.etc. > > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our > particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like > it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent > fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... > eh, just thought id throw it out there. > > word up. > > t. > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >>> To: matt at sfsound.org >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >>> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >>> you. >>> >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >>> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >>> >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >>> out the announcement! >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >>> >>> >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >>> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >>> a chamber ensemble. >>> >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >>> >>> >>> >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >>> >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >>> >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >>> effective in-house campaign. >>> >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >>> >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >>> Integrated Campaign >>> >>> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >>> class or taken on its own. >>> >>> More information: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >>> >>> Registration: >>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >>> >>> >>> Please forward this email to your friends. >>> >> >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >>> San Francisco, California 94118 >>> >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >>> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >>> >>> >> >> m@ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com Tue May 20 20:31:49 2008 From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 20:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <66454.81875.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> One thing to consider which i think would actually help attendance is get folks to sign up for classes ahead of time and charge a registration fee (seriously). Charge like $10 for one day, $20 for three days, or $30 for all six days. Then that money goes to buying everyone lunch at the events and any other expenses incurred. Offer that price if you register up to 2 weeks in advance. Up the price for registration after that, and up it again if they just show up the day of. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that by making folks commit ahead of time (and paying money) will help get people to show up. Once they pay the money then they are sure to come, where as if it is a free event, then the day of maybe they just are tired and decide to stay home, which I think has been the problem with a lot of these types of events in the past. Ironically, in this case, charging money will actually help attendence. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it will work. --- Travis Johns wrote: > eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. > > if past instances of salonery have proven futile in > the past, we could > always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" > or something - > offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or > something, lunch in the > middle), really plan it out to iron out any > lacksadaysical > whathaveyous out of the system and throw something > together that's > like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when > the time seems > right, offer another string of classes/sessions, > etc, - hopefully > building on the acclaim of the first round. if those > go well, we plan > another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around > and reminisce about > the first two sessions or something. > > so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested > in teaching > anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? > cooking? making > sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical > blunder tweezed from > this post? all hands on deck. > > > > ...cricket says chirp. > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief > reminisced: > > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there > seemed interest for about a year...and then the > interest waned rather quickly. > > > > but yeah, someone should do it.. > > > > pg > > > > > > > > > > Travis Johns wrote: > > so, uh, thought: > > > > why don't we all do something like this??? like > some sort of free, > > revolving, peer instructed saturday > afternoon/brunch-ish series of > > workshops aimed at professional development and > the like. hate > > myspace? sign up to teach html! > > > > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of > styrofoam in improvisation. > > > > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. > > > > or analog circuit design. > > > > or max/msp. > > > > or writing an effective bio. > > > > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. > > > > etc.etc.etc. > > > > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or > nuance of one of our > > particular passions with the masses just because > we goddamn feel like > > it, or for the good of the community, or just > because we care. hell, > > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate > something of said > > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay > as a permanent > > fixture until around late august, but anything to > help and all that... > > eh, just thought id throw it out there. > > > > word up. > > > > t. > > > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: > >> > >> > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" > >> > > >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT > >>> To: matt at sfsound.org > >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing > Strategies Workshops > >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber > Music" >> > > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is > excited to announce a > >>> series of career development workshops, which > may be of interest to > >>> you. > >>> > >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker > Foundation, we are able to hold > >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested > musicians/composers or > >>> people working in the music field. Please feel > free to forward this > >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. > >>> > >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music > students in these > >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please > download and print > >>> out the announcement! > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e > >>> > >>> > >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it > will be that this > >>> program can continue. We also believe these > events will be an > >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to > meet, interact and share > >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and > challenges of managing > >>> a chamber ensemble. > >>> > >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San > Francisco Public Library, > >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level > Latino/Hispanic > >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am > >>> > >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing > Fundamentals > >>> > >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to > design and implement an > >>> effective in-house campaign. > >>> > >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am > >>> > >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public > Relations: Developing an > >>> Integrated Campaign > >>> > >>> This class is for people who have experience > (however limited) with > >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a > companion to the first > >>> class or taken on its own. > >>> > >>> More information: > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 > >>> > >>> Registration: > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c > >>> > >>> > >>> Please forward this email to your friends. > >>> > >> > >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music > >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 > >>> San Francisco, California 94118 > >>> > >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: > >>> > http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html > >>> > >>> > >> > >> m@ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >> > === message truncated === Jacob Lindsay http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44 From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue May 20 20:42:54 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 20:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <66454.81875.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <830883.16074.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i think you're right about this - it's been proven again and again that if people don't pay for something, they don't inherently see much value in it. pg Jacob Lindsay wrote: One thing to consider which i think would actually help attendance is get folks to sign up for classes ahead of time and charge a registration fee (seriously). Charge like $10 for one day, $20 for three days, or $30 for all six days. Then that money goes to buying everyone lunch at the events and any other expenses incurred. Offer that price if you register up to 2 weeks in advance. Up the price for registration after that, and up it again if they just show up the day of. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that by making folks commit ahead of time (and paying money) will help get people to show up. Once they pay the money then they are sure to come, where as if it is a free event, then the day of maybe they just are tired and decide to stay home, which I think has been the problem with a lot of these types of events in the past. Ironically, in this case, charging money will actually help attendence. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it will work. --- Travis Johns wrote: > eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. > > if past instances of salonery have proven futile in > the past, we could > always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" > or something - > offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or > something, lunch in the > middle), really plan it out to iron out any > lacksadaysical > whathaveyous out of the system and throw something > together that's > like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when > the time seems > right, offer another string of classes/sessions, > etc, - hopefully > building on the acclaim of the first round. if those > go well, we plan > another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around > and reminisce about > the first two sessions or something. > > so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested > in teaching > anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? > cooking? making > sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical > blunder tweezed from > this post? all hands on deck. > > > > ...cricket says chirp. > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief > reminisced: > > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there > seemed interest for about a year...and then the > interest waned rather quickly. > > > > but yeah, someone should do it.. > > > > pg > > > > > > > > > > Travis Johns wrote: > > so, uh, thought: > > > > why don't we all do something like this??? like > some sort of free, > > revolving, peer instructed saturday > afternoon/brunch-ish series of > > workshops aimed at professional development and > the like. hate > > myspace? sign up to teach html! > > > > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of > styrofoam in improvisation. > > > > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. > > > > or analog circuit design. > > > > or max/msp. > > > > or writing an effective bio. > > > > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. > > > > etc.etc.etc. > > > > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or > nuance of one of our > > particular passions with the masses just because > we goddamn feel like > > it, or for the good of the community, or just > because we care. hell, > > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate > something of said > > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay > as a permanent > > fixture until around late august, but anything to > help and all that... > > eh, just thought id throw it out there. > > > > word up. > > > > t. > > > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: > >> > >> > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" > >> > > >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT > >>> To: matt at sfsound.org > >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing > Strategies Workshops > >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber > Music" >> > > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is > excited to announce a > >>> series of career development workshops, which > may be of interest to > >>> you. > >>> > >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker > Foundation, we are able to hold > >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested > musicians/composers or > >>> people working in the music field. Please feel > free to forward this > >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. > >>> > >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music > students in these > >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please > download and print > >>> out the announcement! > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e > >>> > >>> > >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it > will be that this > >>> program can continue. We also believe these > events will be an > >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to > meet, interact and share > >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and > challenges of managing > >>> a chamber ensemble. > >>> > >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San > Francisco Public Library, > >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level > Latino/Hispanic > >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am > >>> > >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing > Fundamentals > >>> > >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to > design and implement an > >>> effective in-house campaign. > >>> > >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am > >>> > >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public > Relations: Developing an > >>> Integrated Campaign > >>> > >>> This class is for people who have experience > (however limited) with > >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a > companion to the first > >>> class or taken on its own. > >>> > >>> More information: > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 > >>> > >>> Registration: > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c > >>> > >>> > >>> Please forward this email to your friends. > >>> > >> > >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music > >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 > >>> San Francisco, California 94118 > >>> > >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: > >>> > http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html > >>> > >>> > >> > >> m@ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >> > === message truncated == Jacob Lindsay http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_idD _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Tue May 20 21:38:54 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 00:38:54 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <830883.16074.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <66454.81875.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <830883.16074.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hrmm, at least from my initial thoughts for all this, i was kind of envisioning this as more of a free thing offered primarily as a service in and amongst our community pro bono, hoping that the value attached to these classes lied more in the respect for the teacher and our collective dedication to the scene at large... but then again, we're talking about 10 bucks here, of which most would be going towards lunch and whatnot - as poor and as cheap as we can sometimes be, paying $10 for a 2+ hour workshop is still a pretty damn good deal, especially when compared to the cost of one of these darlings on the inside of the proverbial ivory towers. though i wonder, do we go for open studios? or do we try to arrange for a set place for these workshops to occur - just in the off chance that we garner an audience, they know where to find us, as opposed to having to continually be updating the locales for each class - say, oh, at a certain arts space on 25th and broadway perhaps? but hey, whose to say that all of these workshops have to be under the same flag of some all-encompassing meta-series in the first place - as long as we try to stay consistent with where's and whens and dont inadvertently start sniping each other's prospective students, we should be cool. ala my contribution, i'd love to lead a workshop or 2 on objective programming (either max or pd, though the open source concept of pd would probably make it a more ideal candidate, all things considered), working on both introductory and intermediate levels, with an emphasis in developing patches geared towards more improv and performance, especially regarding extended/expanded instruments. though at this point, we have three proposals all concerning the actual practice of the business so to speak - while all said and good, i'd be great if we expanded our subject matter - for instance, a workshop on music and taxes, or diy graphic design, or alternative approaches to record distribution, or hell, even a lecture by gino or someone on the history of emperor norton or something. fun, informative and pan-topical or something like that. and, uh, yeah, i'd love to volunteer my time to help organize something like this. im not so sure how effective i'd be until mid/late august, since im still bouncing about tending to various occupational obligations, but after that it looks like ill be rooted in the bay for at least 2 years and, yeah, psyched about the prospects of said venture. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > i think you're right about this - it's been proven again and again that if people don't pay for something, they don't inherently see much value in it. > > pg > > Jacob Lindsay wrote: > One thing to consider which i think would actually > help attendance is get folks to sign up for classes > ahead of time and charge a registration fee > (seriously). Charge like $10 for one day, $20 for > three days, or $30 for all six days. Then that money > goes to buying everyone lunch at the events and any > other expenses incurred. Offer that price if you > register up to 2 weeks in advance. Up the price for > registration after that, and up it again if they just > show up the day of. > > Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that by making folks > commit ahead of time (and paying money) will help get > people to show up. Once they pay the money then they > are sure to come, where as if it is a free event, then > the day of maybe they just are tired and decide to > stay home, which I think has been the problem with a > lot of these types of events in the past. Ironically, > in this case, charging money will actually help > attendence. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it will > work. > > > --- Travis Johns wrote: > >> eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. >> >> if past instances of salonery have proven futile in >> the past, we could >> always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" >> or something - >> offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or >> something, lunch in the >> middle), really plan it out to iron out any >> lacksadaysical >> whathaveyous out of the system and throw something >> together that's >> like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when >> the time seems >> right, offer another string of classes/sessions, >> etc, - hopefully >> building on the acclaim of the first round. if those >> go well, we plan >> another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around >> and reminisce about >> the first two sessions or something. >> >> so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested >> in teaching >> anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? >> cooking? making >> sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical >> blunder tweezed from >> this post? all hands on deck. >> >> >> >> ...cricket says chirp. >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief >> > reminisced: >> > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there >> seemed interest for about a year...and then the >> interest waned rather quickly. >> > >> > but yeah, someone should do it.. >> > >> > pg >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Travis Johns wrote: >> > so, uh, thought: >> > >> > why don't we all do something like this??? like >> some sort of free, >> > revolving, peer instructed saturday >> afternoon/brunch-ish series of >> > workshops aimed at professional development and >> the like. hate >> > myspace? sign up to teach html! >> > >> > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of >> styrofoam in improvisation. >> > >> > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. >> > >> > or analog circuit design. >> > >> > or max/msp. >> > >> > or writing an effective bio. >> > >> > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. >> > >> > etc.etc.etc. >> > >> > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or >> nuance of one of our >> > particular passions with the masses just because >> we goddamn feel like >> > it, or for the good of the community, or just >> because we care. hell, >> > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate >> something of said >> > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay >> as a permanent >> > fixture until around late august, but anything to >> help and all that... >> > eh, just thought id throw it out there. >> > >> > word up. >> > >> > t. >> > >> > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> >> >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> >> > >> >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >> >>> To: matt at sfsound.org >> >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing >> Strategies Workshops >> >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber >> Music" >> > >> >>> >> >>> Hello, >> >>> >> >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is >> excited to announce a >> >>> series of career development workshops, which >> may be of interest to >> >>> you. >> >>> >> >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker >> Foundation, we are able to hold >> >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested >> musicians/composers or >> >>> people working in the music field. Please feel >> free to forward this >> >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >> >>> >> >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music >> students in these >> >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please >> download and print >> >>> out the announcement! >> >>> >> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it >> will be that this >> >>> program can continue. We also believe these >> events will be an >> >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to >> meet, interact and share >> >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and >> challenges of managing >> >>> a chamber ensemble. >> >>> >> >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San >> Francisco Public Library, >> >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level >> Latino/Hispanic >> >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >> >>> >> >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing >> Fundamentals >> >>> >> >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to >> design and implement an >> >>> effective in-house campaign. >> >>> >> >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >> >>> >> >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public >> Relations: Developing an >> >>> Integrated Campaign >> >>> >> >>> This class is for people who have experience >> (however limited) with >> >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a >> companion to the first >> >>> class or taken on its own. >> >>> >> >>> More information: >> >>> >> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >> >>> >> >>> Registration: >> >>> >> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Please forward this email to your friends. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >> >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >> >>> San Francisco, California 94118 >> >>> >> >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >> >>> >> > http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> m@ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> >> > message truncated > Jacob Lindsay > http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_idD > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Tue May 20 21:53:47 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:53:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: PG wrote: >>i think you're right about this - it's been proven again and again that if people don't pay for something, they don't inherently see much value in it. Apparently, this conclusion does not apply where MySpace is concerned. Just maintaining my reputation as a thorn in one's side..... ;-) -MH Actually, if there was any interest I would volunteer to host a workshop on the french horn, extended techniques, electronic enhancements, cugaphones, etc. I have done this sort of thing before. I just don't have the time to do the cattle herding. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue May 20 22:04:53 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <224635.83934.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> PG wrote: >>i think you're right about this - it's been proven again and again that if people don't pay for something, they don't inherently see much value in it. Apparently, this conclusion does not apply where MySpace is concerned. Just maintaining my reputation as a thorn in one's side..... ;-) -MH PG: there's that bloody insect, gnawing away at my side again. when you're comparing "entertainment" or "art" with a "marketing tool", there are other aesthetic and practical concerns... From djcypod at gmail.com Tue May 20 22:09:54 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:09:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: References: <377908.44734.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I always thought it would be fun to have a netpd* workshop. Install netpd on a bunch of people's systems, show them some example soft-synths built with it, and then turn them loose to come up with their own instrument designs. At the end their would be a big network jam with a fast central server rendering all the music over some speakers. If there is any interest, I don't think it would be too hard to find some place to host such an event. *http://www.netpd.org/About On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Travis Johns wrote: > eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. > > if past instances of salonery have proven futile in the past, we could > always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" or something - > offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or something, lunch in the > middle), really plan it out to iron out any lacksadaysical > whathaveyous out of the system and throw something together that's > like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when the time seems > right, offer another string of classes/sessions, etc, - hopefully > building on the acclaim of the first round. if those go well, we plan > another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around and reminisce about > the first two sessions or something. > > so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested in teaching > anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? cooking? making > sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical blunder tweezed from > this post? all hands on deck. > > > > ...cricket says chirp. > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief > reminisced: >> I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. >> >> but yeah, someone should do it.. >> >> pg >> >> >> >> >> Travis Johns wrote: >> so, uh, thought: >> >> why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, >> revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of >> workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate >> myspace? sign up to teach html! >> >> ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. >> >> or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. >> >> or analog circuit design. >> >> or max/msp. >> >> or writing an effective bio. >> >> or advanced sausage grilling techniques. >> >> etc.etc.etc. >> >> you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our >> particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like >> it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, >> i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said >> nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent >> fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... >> eh, just thought id throw it out there. >> >> word up. >> >> t. >> >> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >>> >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >>>> To: matt at sfsound.org >>>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops >>>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a >>>> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to >>>> you. >>>> >>>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold >>>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or >>>> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this >>>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >>>> >>>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these >>>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print >>>> out the announcement! >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >>>> >>>> >>>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this >>>> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an >>>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share >>>> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing >>>> a chamber ensemble. >>>> >>>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, >>>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic >>>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >>>> >>>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals >>>> >>>> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an >>>> effective in-house campaign. >>>> >>>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >>>> >>>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an >>>> Integrated Campaign >>>> >>>> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with >>>> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first >>>> class or taken on its own. >>>> >>>> More information: >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >>>> >>>> Registration: >>>> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >>>> >>>> >>>> Please forward this email to your friends. >>>> >>> >>>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >>>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >>>> San Francisco, California 94118 >>>> >>>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >>>> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> m@ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Tue May 20 22:40:58 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:40:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: >> when you're comparing "entertainment" or "art" with a "marketing tool", there are other aesthetic and practical concerns... Sorry, PG. I didn't see the words "entertainment", "art" or "marketing" appear in your statement. Hence I was making no such comparisons. You simply said "if people don't pay for something they don't inherently see much value in it." Is MySpace not "something?" I seem to recall that during the recent flare-up quite a few folks here thought it was. Aesthetically speaking....are you suggesting that marketing cannot be a form of entertainment or art? If so, I think Rupert Murdoch, and many of his bloody insects would likely disagree with you. ;-) Thorningly yours, -MH From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue May 20 23:29:03 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 23:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] events correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <891367.47061.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This was posted as Thursday, but it's Wednesday... Sorry for posting here, but any other option would be too late. PG Wednesday, May 21 2008 9:00 PM Bluesix Acoustic 3043 24th street - san francisco, ca 94110 9pm Trevor Healy - acoustic guitar, violin, assorted sounds Aram Shelton - Bass and Eb clarinets, soprano saxophone 9:45 pm Patrick Briener - saxophone Phillip Greenlief - saxophone Damon Smith - double bass Michael Henry wrote: >> when you're comparing "entertainment" or "art" with a "marketing tool", there are other aesthetic and practical concerns... Sorry, PG. I didn't see the words "entertainment", "art" or "marketing" appear in your statement. Hence I was making no such comparisons. You simply said "if people don't pay for something they don't inherently see much value in it." Is MySpace not "something?" I seem to recall that during the recent flare-up quite a few folks here thought it was. Aesthetically speaking....are you suggesting that marketing cannot be a form of entertainment or art? If so, I think Rupert Murdoch, and many of his bloody insects would likely disagree with you. ;-) Thorningly yours, -MH _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From mattdavignon at gmail.com Tue May 20 23:48:15 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 23:48:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <484476.82827.qm@web55615.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <484476.82827.qm@web55615.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: At the Edgetone Summit this year, we're trying to get an event together called "touch the gear", that is supposed to help demystify both invented instruments and 'electronics' both of the computer and non-computer variety. I'm currently scheduled to explain how my tablecore/drum machine setup works and let people drive it. Tom Nunn is planning to do the same with his instruments. My current understanding is the event is only going to happen if we can get a few more current/recent festival participants to agree to participate. I think it'd be just lovely if we could get Gino to show off modular synths, and Tim Perkis to show off laptop-oriented electronics, for example. On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Jon Raskin wrote: > Okay, I'll bite > > Here are things I would be interested in. > > Teaching: Saxophone Multiphonics and extended techniques > Workshop: throat singing, work with people interested in throat singing to > see if something intersting can be arrived at. > Workshop: low fi electronics, non notebook derived electronic sounds > > I have studio that they could take place in. > > Suggestion: how about setting it up along the lines of open studios and > than try and pull general audience as well? > > Rova has been try to build an audience for our Improv21 series which > invites improvising musicians/composers to discuss improvisation in their > work. It has been a struggle to get much of an audience so I'm leary of how > this will be put on without strong organizational support by someone. Over > the years, this has been tried, even with some funding and it's been great > on content and sad on attendance. > > > > Jon Raskin > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Travis Johns > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:02:29 PM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies > Workshops > > eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. > > if past instances of salonery have proven futile in the past, we could > always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" or something - > offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or something, lunch in the > middle), really plan it out to iron out any lacksadaysical > whathaveyous out of the system and throw something together that's > like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when the time seems > right, offer another string of classes/sessions, etc, - hopefully > building on the acclaim of the first round. if those go well, we plan > another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around and reminisce about > the first two sessions or something. > > so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested in teaching > anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? cooking? making > sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical blunder tweezed from > this post? all hands on deck. > > > > ...cricket says chirp. > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief > reminisced: > > I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there seemed interest for about a > year...and then the interest waned rather quickly. > > > > but yeah, someone should do it.. > > > > pg > > > > > > > > > > Travis Johns wrote: > > so, uh, thought: > > > > why don't we all do something like this??? like some sort of free, > > revolving, peer instructed saturday afternoon/brunch-ish series of > > workshops aimed at professional development and the like. hate > > myspace? sign up to teach html! > > > > ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of styrofoam in improvisation. > > > > or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. > > > > or analog circuit design. > > > > or max/msp. > > > > or writing an effective bio. > > > > or advanced sausage grilling techniques. > > > > etc.etc.etc. > > > > you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or nuance of one of our > > particular passions with the masses just because we goddamn feel like > > it, or for the good of the community, or just because we care. hell, > > i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate something of said > > nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay as a permanent > > fixture until around late august, but anything to help and all that... > > eh, just thought id throw it out there. > > > > word up. > > > > t. > > > > On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: > >> > >> > >> Begin forwarded message: > >> > >>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > > >>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT > >>> To: matt at sfsound.org > >>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops > >>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >> > > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is excited to announce a > >>> series of career development workshops, which may be of interest to > >>> you. > >>> > >>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker Foundation, we are able to hold > >>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested musicians/composers or > >>> people working in the music field. Please feel free to forward this > >>> email to anyone you think will be interested. > >>> > >>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music students in these > >>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please download and print > >>> out the announcement! > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e > >>> > >>> > >>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it will be that this > >>> program can continue. We also believe these events will be an > >>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to meet, interact and share > >>> valuable information regarding the rewards and challenges of managing > >>> a chamber ensemble. > >>> > >>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San Francisco Public Library, > >>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level Latino/Hispanic > >>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am > >>> > >>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing Fundamentals > >>> > >>> This class would serve as a primer on how to design and implement an > >>> effective in-house campaign. > >>> > >>> June 11, 2008 - 10am > >>> > >>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public Relations: Developing an > >>> Integrated Campaign > >>> > >>> This class is for people who have experience (however limited) with > >>> public relations and marketing. It can be a companion to the first > >>> class or taken on its own. > >>> > >>> More information: > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 > >>> > >>> Registration: > >>> > http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c > >>> > >>> > >>> Please forward this email to your friends. > >>> > >> > >>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music > >>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 > >>> San Francisco, California 94118 > >>> > >>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: > >>> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html > >>> > >>> > >> > >> m@ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu > >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Wed May 21 10:05:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <155280.72987.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Michael Henry wrote: Sorry, PG. I didn't see the words "entertainment", "art" or "marketing" appear in your statement. Hence I was making no such comparisons. You simply said "if people don't pay for something they don't inherently see much value in it." Is MySpace not "something?" I seem to recall that during the recent flare-up quite a few folks here thought it was. Aesthetically speaking....are you suggesting that marketing cannot be a form of entertainment or art? If so, I think Rupert Murdoch, and many of his bloody insects would likely disagree with you. ;-) Thorningly yours, -MH PG: This feels a bit like being harrassed, but...here goes. Truth is, I'm not enjoying this conversation, mostly because this subject is so over for me. I thought the differences between choosing something like MySpace (a promotional tool), and choosing something like a concert or a workshop (entertainment, art, education) were obvious. I don't feel I have to create some pithy metaphor (which seem to be lost on you anyway) to explain here. If you want to feel like you've "won" this discussion, start celebrating now. Just so you know, I'm not promoting MySpace, I don't care who uses it and who doesn't. I'm just using it as a marketing or promotional tool. As I said before, this conversation is over for me. Please stop replying to my posts (on this particular subject)...this is the last you're going to hear from me on this. I have better things to do, and I have no interest in convincing you to think like me. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Wed May 21 11:18:32 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:18:32 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17CE723F-244F-4DD3-BE31-D76FA7FED8C9@matthewgoodheart.com> On May 20, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Michael Henry wrote: > Aesthetically speaking....are you suggesting that marketing cannot > be a form of entertainment or art? The grumpy mg writes: Y'know, if your going to be a thorn in one's side (and by all means, please do) at least do it about something real. This is an exhausted argument that seems to have legs purely because of semantic laziness. The problem is that you haven't defined the word "art" in this context, and are therefor bouncing off the modern conflation of the word "art" with the concept "high art" - a concept that has been challenged and broken over the last 100 years or so, its conditions having easily been demonstrated to be culturally prejudicial. Hence we live in a time of fluid definition: "art" stands for whatever we want it to mean in that instant we utter it, yet as a word it continues to maintain a certain cultural power as a reference for something valuable and desirable and concrete. Therefore, to argue whether something is "art" is a bogus argument; one can only realistically discuss whether a particular "piece of work" fits a particular definition of a mode of artistic intentionality (yes, and anti- intentional blah blah), and even that is a discussion of limited value, usually associated with one's late teens amidst voluminous clouds of smoldering cannabis and the attempt to place one's hands within the pants of whomever is sitting next to you. . . There's no there, there. For your amusement, the prevailing definitions of art from the OED, almost all of which interject themselves in one form or another into any conversation on the subject: I. Skill; its display or application. Sing. art (abstractly); no plural. 1. gen. Skill in doing anything as the result of knowledge and practice. 2. a. Human skill as an agent, human workmanship. Opposed to nature. b. Artifice, artificial expedient. (Cf. 12.) Obs. 3. The learning of the schools; see 7. {dag}a. spec. The trivium, or one of its subjects, grammar, logic, rhetoric; dialectics. b. gen. Scholarship, learning, science. arch. c. words or terms of art: words peculiar to, or having a peculiar use in, a particular art or pursuit; technical terms. 4. spec. Skill in applying the principles of a special science; technical or professional skill. Obs. 5. The application of skill to subjects of taste, as poetry, music, dancing, the drama, oratory, literary composition, and the like; esp. in mod. use: Skill displaying itself in perfection of workmanship, perfection of execution as an object in itself. Phr. art for art's sake. Hence in many allusive phrases 6. The application of skill to the arts of imitation and design, painting, engraving, sculpture, architecture; the cultivation of these in its principles, practice, and results; the skilful production of the beautiful in visible forms. (This is the most usual modern sense of art, when used without any qualification. It does not occur in any English Dictionary before 1880, and seems to have been chiefly used by painters and writers on painting, until the present century.)and Rome form in themselves a complete history of Art. II. Anything wherein skill may be attained or displayed. Sing. an art; pl. arts. 7. a. chiefly in pl. Certain branches of learning which are of the nature of intellectual instruments or apparatus for more advanced studies, or for the work of life; their main principles having been already investigated and established, they are in the position of subjects requiring only to be acquired and practised. Applied in the Middle Ages to ?the trivium and quadrivium, a course of seven sciences, introduced in the sixth century...the trivium contained grammar, logic, and rhetoric; the quadrivium arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy' (Hallam); called also the free or liberal arts. Hence the ?faculty? of arts, and arts ?curriculum,? embracing the portions of these, with subsequent additions and alterations, still studied at the Universities, and the degrees of ?Bachelor? and ?Master of Arts? conferred upon students who attain to a prescribed standard of proficiency in these branches of knowledge, or, as it is called, ?graduate in arts.? 8. A practical application of any science; a body or system of rules serving to facilitate the carrying out of certain principles. In this sense often contrasted with science. 9. a. esp. An industrial pursuit or employment of a skilled nature; a craft, business, profession. b. A guild, or company of craftsmen. 10. A pursuit or occupation in which skill is directed towards the gratification of taste or production of what is beautiful. Hence the Arts: (specifically) = the fine arts; 11. In prec. senses, but particularized:{em} a. by an adjective, as magic art (or the black art), military art, the healing art. industrial, mechanical, useful arts: those in which the hands and body are more concerned than the mind. fine arts: those in which the mind and imagination are chiefly concerned. b. by a genitive or genitive phrase, as ?the painter's art,? ?the art of painting.? 12. An acquired faculty of any kind; a power of doing anything wherein skill is attainable by study and practice; a knack. III. Skilful, crafty, or artificial conduct. 13. Studied conduct or action, especially such as seeks to attain its ends by artificial, indirect, or covert means; address; cunning, artfulness. 14. An artifice, contrivance, stratagem, wile, trick, cunning device. Chiefly in pl. AND perhaps more importantly - a definition of "high" in relation to the word "art" 6. a. Of exalted quality, character, or style; of lofty, elevated, or superior kind; high-class. Freq. in high art, comedy, culture. Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Wed May 21 12:13:17 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:13:17 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <17CE723F-244F-4DD3-BE31-D76FA7FED8C9@matthewgoodheart.com> References: <17CE723F-244F-4DD3-BE31-D76FA7FED8C9@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: dude, myspace was like, soooo 2 weeks ago... ;) On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: > > On May 20, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Michael Henry wrote: > >> Aesthetically speaking....are you suggesting that marketing cannot >> be a form of entertainment or art? > > > The grumpy mg writes: > > Y'know, if your going to be a thorn in one's side (and by all means, > please do) at least do it about something real. This is an exhausted > argument that seems to have legs purely because of semantic laziness. > The problem is that you haven't defined the word "art" in this > context, and are therefor bouncing off the modern conflation of the > word "art" with the concept "high art" - a concept that has been > challenged and broken over the last 100 years or so, its conditions > having easily been demonstrated to be culturally prejudicial. Hence we > live in a time of fluid definition: "art" stands for whatever we want > it to mean in that instant we utter it, yet as a word it continues to > maintain a certain cultural power as a reference for something > valuable and desirable and concrete. Therefore, to argue whether > something is "art" is a bogus argument; one can only realistically > discuss whether a particular "piece of work" fits a particular > definition of a mode of artistic intentionality (yes, and anti- > intentional blah blah), and even that is a discussion of limited > value, usually associated with one's late teens amidst voluminous > clouds of smoldering cannabis and the attempt to place one's hands > within the pants of whomever is sitting next to you. . . > > There's no there, there. > > > > > For your amusement, the prevailing definitions of art from the OED, > almost all of which interject themselves in one form or another into > any conversation on the subject: > > I. Skill; its display or application. Sing. art (abstractly); no > plural. > 1. gen. Skill in doing anything as the result of knowledge and > practice. > 2. a. Human skill as an agent, human workmanship. Opposed to > nature. > b. Artifice, artificial expedient. (Cf. 12.) Obs. > 3. The learning of the schools; see 7. {dag}a. spec. The trivium, > or one of its subjects, grammar, logic, rhetoric; dialectics. > b. gen. Scholarship, learning, science. arch. > c. words or terms of art: words peculiar to, or having a peculiar > use in, a particular art or pursuit; technical terms. > 4. spec. Skill in applying the principles of a special science; > technical or professional skill. Obs. > 5. The application of skill to subjects of taste, as poetry, > music, dancing, the drama, oratory, literary composition, and the > like; esp. in mod. use: Skill displaying itself in perfection > of workmanship, perfection of execution as an object in itself. Phr. > art for art's sake. Hence in many allusive phrases > 6. The application of skill to the arts of imitation and design, > painting, engraving, sculpture, architecture; the cultivation of these > in its principles, practice, and results; the skilful production of > the beautiful in visible forms. > (This is the most usual modern sense of art, when used without any > qualification. It does not occur in any English Dictionary before > 1880, and seems to have been chiefly used by painters and writers on > painting, until the present century.)and Rome form in themselves a > complete history of Art. > > II. Anything wherein skill may be attained or displayed. Sing. an > art; pl. arts. > 7. a. chiefly in pl. Certain branches of learning which are of > the nature of intellectual instruments or apparatus for more advanced > studies, or for the work of life; their main principles having been > already investigated and established, they are in the position of > subjects requiring only to be acquired and practised. Applied in the > Middle Ages to 'the trivium and quadrivium, a course of seven > sciences, introduced in the sixth century...the trivium contained > grammar, logic, and rhetoric; the quadrivium arithmetic, geometry, > music, and astronomy' (Hallam); called also the free or liberal arts. > Hence the 'faculty' of arts, and arts 'curriculum,' embracing the > portions of these, with subsequent additions and alterations, still > studied at the Universities, and the degrees of 'Bachelor' and 'Master > of Arts' conferred upon students who attain to a prescribed standard > of proficiency in these branches of knowledge, or, as it is called, > 'graduate in arts.' > 8. A practical application of any science; a body or system of > rules serving to facilitate the carrying out of certain principles. In > this sense often contrasted with science. > 9. a. esp. An industrial pursuit or employment of a skilled > nature; a craft, business, profession. > b. A guild, or company of craftsmen. > 10. A pursuit or occupation in which skill is directed towards > the gratification of taste or production of what is beautiful. Hence > the Arts: (specifically) the fine arts; > 11. In prec. senses, but particularized:{em} a. by an > adjective, as magic art (or the black art), military art, the healing > art. industrial, mechanical, useful arts: those in which the hands and > body are more concerned than the mind. fine arts: those in which the > mind and imagination are chiefly concerned. > b. by a genitive or genitive phrase, as 'the painter's art,' 'the > art of painting.' > 12. An acquired faculty of any kind; a power of doing anything > wherein skill is attainable by study and practice; a knack. > > III. Skilful, crafty, or artificial conduct. > 13. Studied conduct or action, especially such as seeks to attain > its ends by artificial, indirect, or covert means; address; cunning, > artfulness. > 14. An artifice, contrivance, stratagem, wile, trick, cunning > device. Chiefly in pl. > > > > AND perhaps more importantly - a definition of "high" in relation to > the word "art" > > 6. a. Of exalted quality, character, or style; of lofty, elevated, > or superior kind; high-class. Freq. in high art, comedy, culture. > > > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Wed May 21 13:37:54 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 13:37:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: References: <17CE723F-244F-4DD3-BE31-D76FA7FED8C9@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: <09C3DCF0-95E7-49CC-AF60-662F81478A5C@matthewgoodheart.com> Hmmm, I was commenting on aesthetics, which was the subject of your post, daddy-o. Myspace is your trip. On May 21, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Travis Johns wrote: > dude, myspace was like, soooo 2 weeks ago... > > ;) > > > > On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Matthew Goodheart > wrote: >> >> On May 20, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Michael Henry wrote: >> >>> Aesthetically speaking....are you suggesting that marketing cannot >>> be a form of entertainment or art? >> >> >> The grumpy mg writes: >> >> Y'know, if your going to be a thorn in one's side (and by all means, >> please do) at least do it about something real. This is an exhausted >> argument that seems to have legs purely because of semantic laziness. >> The problem is that you haven't defined the word "art" in this >> context, and are therefor bouncing off the modern conflation of the >> word "art" with the concept "high art" - a concept that has been >> challenged and broken over the last 100 years or so, its conditions >> having easily been demonstrated to be culturally prejudicial. Hence >> we >> live in a time of fluid definition: "art" stands for whatever we want >> it to mean in that instant we utter it, yet as a word it continues to >> maintain a certain cultural power as a reference for something >> valuable and desirable and concrete. Therefore, to argue whether >> something is "art" is a bogus argument; one can only realistically >> discuss whether a particular "piece of work" fits a particular >> definition of a mode of artistic intentionality (yes, and anti- >> intentional blah blah), and even that is a discussion of limited >> value, usually associated with one's late teens amidst voluminous >> clouds of smoldering cannabis and the attempt to place one's hands >> within the pants of whomever is sitting next to you. . . >> >> There's no there, there. >> >> >> >> >> For your amusement, the prevailing definitions of art from the OED, >> almost all of which interject themselves in one form or another into >> any conversation on the subject: >> >> I. Skill; its display or application. Sing. art (abstractly); no >> plural. >> 1. gen. Skill in doing anything as the result of knowledge and >> practice. >> 2. a. Human skill as an agent, human workmanship. Opposed to >> nature. >> b. Artifice, artificial expedient. (Cf. 12.) Obs. >> 3. The learning of the schools; see 7. {dag}a. spec. The >> trivium, >> or one of its subjects, grammar, logic, rhetoric; dialectics. >> b. gen. Scholarship, learning, science. arch. >> c. words or terms of art: words peculiar to, or having a >> peculiar >> use in, a particular art or pursuit; technical terms. >> 4. spec. Skill in applying the principles of a special science; >> technical or professional skill. Obs. >> 5. The application of skill to subjects of taste, as poetry, >> music, dancing, the drama, oratory, literary composition, and the >> like; esp. in mod. use: Skill displaying itself in perfection >> of workmanship, perfection of execution as an object in itself. Phr. >> art for art's sake. Hence in many allusive phrases >> 6. The application of skill to the arts of imitation and design, >> painting, engraving, sculpture, architecture; the cultivation of >> these >> in its principles, practice, and results; the skilful production of >> the beautiful in visible forms. >> (This is the most usual modern sense of art, when used without any >> qualification. It does not occur in any English Dictionary before >> 1880, and seems to have been chiefly used by painters and writers on >> painting, until the present century.)and Rome form in themselves a >> complete history of Art. >> >> II. Anything wherein skill may be attained or displayed. Sing. an >> art; pl. arts. >> 7. a. chiefly in pl. Certain branches of learning which are of >> the nature of intellectual instruments or apparatus for more advanced >> studies, or for the work of life; their main principles having been >> already investigated and established, they are in the position of >> subjects requiring only to be acquired and practised. Applied in the >> Middle Ages to 'the trivium and quadrivium, a course of seven >> sciences, introduced in the sixth century...the trivium contained >> grammar, logic, and rhetoric; the quadrivium arithmetic, geometry, >> music, and astronomy' (Hallam); called also the free or liberal arts. >> Hence the 'faculty' of arts, and arts 'curriculum,' embracing the >> portions of these, with subsequent additions and alterations, still >> studied at the Universities, and the degrees of 'Bachelor' and >> 'Master >> of Arts' conferred upon students who attain to a prescribed standard >> of proficiency in these branches of knowledge, or, as it is called, >> 'graduate in arts.' >> 8. A practical application of any science; a body or system of >> rules serving to facilitate the carrying out of certain principles. >> In >> this sense often contrasted with science. >> 9. a. esp. An industrial pursuit or employment of a skilled >> nature; a craft, business, profession. >> b. A guild, or company of craftsmen. >> 10. A pursuit or occupation in which skill is directed towards >> the gratification of taste or production of what is beautiful. Hence >> the Arts: (specifically) the fine arts; >> 11. In prec. senses, but particularized:{em} a. by an >> adjective, as magic art (or the black art), military art, the healing >> art. industrial, mechanical, useful arts: those in which the hands >> and >> body are more concerned than the mind. fine arts: those in which the >> mind and imagination are chiefly concerned. >> b. by a genitive or genitive phrase, as 'the painter's art,' 'the >> art of painting.' >> 12. An acquired faculty of any kind; a power of doing anything >> wherein skill is attainable by study and practice; a knack. >> >> III. Skilful, crafty, or artificial conduct. >> 13. Studied conduct or action, especially such as seeks to attain >> its ends by artificial, indirect, or covert means; address; cunning, >> artfulness. >> 14. An artifice, contrivance, stratagem, wile, trick, cunning >> device. Chiefly in pl. >> >> >> >> AND perhaps more importantly - a definition of "high" in relation to >> the word "art" >> >> 6. a. Of exalted quality, character, or style; of lofty, elevated, >> or superior kind; high-class. Freq. in high art, comedy, culture. >> >> >> >> Matthew Goodheart >> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> http://matthewgoodheart.com >> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From ingalls at mills.edu Wed May 21 14:36:30 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: References: <66454.81875.qm@web58007.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <830883.16074.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: my first reaction is: well you can't even get people to come to concerts! also you should check out the bay area computer music meetup -- there's lots of people recently trying to get together with others about learning software, hacking sessions, etc: http://electronicmusic.meetup.com/152/ On Wed, 21 May 2008, Travis Johns wrote: > hrmm, at least from my initial thoughts for all this, i was kind of > envisioning this as more of a free thing offered primarily as a > service in and amongst our community pro bono, hoping that the value > attached to these classes lied more in the respect for the teacher and > our collective dedication to the scene at large... but then again, > we're talking about 10 bucks here, of which most would be going > towards lunch and whatnot - as poor and as cheap as we can sometimes > be, paying $10 for a 2+ hour workshop is still a pretty damn good > deal, especially when compared to the cost of one of these darlings on > the inside of the proverbial ivory towers. > > though i wonder, do we go for open studios? or do we try to arrange > for a set place for these workshops to occur - just in the off chance > that we garner an audience, they know where to find us, as opposed to > having to continually be updating the locales for each class - say, > oh, at a certain arts space on 25th and broadway perhaps? but hey, > whose to say that all of these workshops have to be under the same > flag of some all-encompassing meta-series in the first place - as long > as we try to stay consistent with where's and whens and dont > inadvertently start sniping each other's prospective students, we > should be cool. > > ala my contribution, i'd love to lead a workshop or 2 on objective > programming (either max or pd, though the open source concept of pd > would probably make it a more ideal candidate, all things considered), > working on both introductory and intermediate levels, with an emphasis > in developing patches geared towards more improv and performance, > especially regarding extended/expanded instruments. though at this > point, we have three proposals all concerning the actual practice of > the business so to speak - while all said and good, i'd be great if we > expanded our subject matter - for instance, a workshop on music and > taxes, or diy graphic design, or alternative approaches to record > distribution, or hell, even a lecture by gino or someone on the > history of emperor norton or something. fun, informative and > pan-topical or something like that. > > and, uh, yeah, i'd love to volunteer my time to help organize > something like this. im not so sure how effective i'd be until > mid/late august, since im still bouncing about tending to various > occupational obligations, but after that it looks like ill be rooted > in the bay for at least 2 years and, yeah, psyched about the prospects > of said venture. > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 11:42 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: >> i think you're right about this - it's been proven again and again that if people don't pay for something, they don't inherently see much value in it. >> >> pg >> >> Jacob Lindsay wrote: >> One thing to consider which i think would actually >> help attendance is get folks to sign up for classes >> ahead of time and charge a registration fee >> (seriously). Charge like $10 for one day, $20 for >> three days, or $30 for all six days. Then that money >> goes to buying everyone lunch at the events and any >> other expenses incurred. Offer that price if you >> register up to 2 weeks in advance. Up the price for >> registration after that, and up it again if they just >> show up the day of. >> >> Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that by making folks >> commit ahead of time (and paying money) will help get >> people to show up. Once they pay the money then they >> are sure to come, where as if it is a free event, then >> the day of maybe they just are tired and decide to >> stay home, which I think has been the problem with a >> lot of these types of events in the past. Ironically, >> in this case, charging money will actually help >> attendence. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it will >> work. >> >> >> --- Travis Johns wrote: >> >>> eh, hype, media, pr, etc.etc.etc. >>> >>> if past instances of salonery have proven futile in >>> the past, we could >>> always book it as like a 6 week "information summit" >>> or something - >>> offer 2 classes a week (morning/afternoon or >>> something, lunch in the >>> middle), really plan it out to iron out any >>> lacksadaysical >>> whathaveyous out of the system and throw something >>> together that's >>> like beyond par. then let it simmer a bit and when >>> the time seems >>> right, offer another string of classes/sessions, >>> etc, - hopefully >>> building on the acclaim of the first round. if those >>> go well, we plan >>> another string, if not, hey, we can all sit around >>> and reminisce about >>> the first two sessions or something. >>> >>> so, uh, show of hands - would anyone be interested >>> in teaching >>> anything? would anyone be interested in hosting? >>> cooking? making >>> sarcastic comments regarding some grammatical >>> blunder tweezed from >>> this post? all hands on deck. >>> >>> >>> >>> ...cricket says chirp. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Phillip Greenlief >>> >> reminisced: >>>> I tried to do this at improvgarage, and there >>> seemed interest for about a year...and then the >>> interest waned rather quickly. >>>> >>>> but yeah, someone should do it.. >>>> >>>> pg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Travis Johns wrote: >>>> so, uh, thought: >>>> >>>> why don't we all do something like this??? like >>> some sort of free, >>>> revolving, peer instructed saturday >>> afternoon/brunch-ish series of >>>> workshops aimed at professional development and >>> the like. hate >>>> myspace? sign up to teach html! >>>> >>>> ...or hold a workshop in the proper use of >>> styrofoam in improvisation. >>>> >>>> or perhaps a class on sax multiphonics. >>>> >>>> or analog circuit design. >>>> >>>> or max/msp. >>>> >>>> or writing an effective bio. >>>> >>>> or advanced sausage grilling techniques. >>>> >>>> etc.etc.etc. >>>> >>>> you know, totally hands on, sharing an aspect or >>> nuance of one of our >>>> particular passions with the masses just because >>> we goddamn feel like >>>> it, or for the good of the community, or just >>> because we care. hell, >>>> i'd even volunteer to help organize and curate >>> something of said >>>> nature - i mean, im not gonna be back in the bay >>> as a permanent >>>> fixture until around late august, but anything to >>> help and all that... >>>> eh, just thought id throw it out there. >>>> >>>> word up. >>>> >>>> t. >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:06 PM, matt wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>>> >>>>>> From: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music" >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: May 19, 2008 6:20:24 PM PDT >>>>>> To: matt at sfsound.org >>>>>> Subject: Free Public Relations and Marketing >>> Strategies Workshops >>>>>> Reply-To: "San Francisco Friends of Chamber >>> Music" >> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> The San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music is >>> excited to announce a >>>>>> series of career development workshops, which >>> may be of interest to >>>>>> you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aided by a grant from the Fleishhacker >>> Foundation, we are able to hold >>>>>> these events FREE OF CHARGE to any interested >>> musicians/composers or >>>>>> people working in the music field. Please feel >>> free to forward this >>>>>> email to anyone you think will be interested. >>>>>> >>>>>> SFFCM would welcome the participation of music >>> students in these >>>>>> workshops. If you work at an institution, please >>> download and print >>>>>> out the announcement! >>>>>> >>> >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/45440fd77e >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The greater the attendance, the more likely it >>> will be that this >>>>>> program can continue. We also believe these >>> events will be an >>>>>> opportunity for musicians in the Bay Area to >>> meet, interact and share >>>>>> valuable information regarding the rewards and >>> challenges of managing >>>>>> a chamber ensemble. >>>>>> >>>>>> The two upcoming workshops are at the San >>> Francisco Public Library, >>>>>> 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco - Lower level >>> Latino/Hispanic >>>>>> Community Meeting Room (50 seats) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> June 4, 2008 - 10 am >>>>>> >>>>>> Workshop 1 ? Public Relations and Marketing >>> Fundamentals >>>>>> >>>>>> This class would serve as a primer on how to >>> design and implement an >>>>>> effective in-house campaign. >>>>>> >>>>>> June 11, 2008 - 10am >>>>>> >>>>>> Workshop 2 ? Strategic Marketing and Public >>> Relations: Developing an >>>>>> Integrated Campaign >>>>>> >>>>>> This class is for people who have experience >>> (however limited) with >>>>>> public relations and marketing. It can be a >>> companion to the first >>>>>> class or taken on its own. >>>>>> >>>>>> More information: >>>>>> >>> >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/f16ea75df1 >>>>>> >>>>>> Registration: >>>>>> >>> >> http://cts.vresp.com/c/?SanFranciscoFriendso/efc55b6482/ee5865cd45/0398d6a10c >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Please forward this email to your friends. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> San Francisco Friends of Chamber Music >>>>>> 3701 Sacramento Street, PMB 357 >>>>>> San Francisco, California 94118 >>>>>> >>>>>> Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy: >>>>>> >>> >> http://www.verticalresponse.com/content/pm_policy.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> m@ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>>>> >>> >> message truncated >> Jacob Lindsay >> http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_idD >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 21 14:45:48 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 14:45:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts Message-ID: Who is "you"? Some people get more people to their concerts than others. ... Though I see more people at the Whole Foods than at concerts. Whole Foods should be required to make their shoppers come to concerts. sl Matt Ingalls wrote: my first reaction is: well you can't even get people to come to concerts! From weaselw at juno.com Wed May 21 15:12:31 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:12:31 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: <20080521.151337.3908.2.weaselw@juno.com> matt - come towards the light . . . i will book a show sometime soon where you will play to actual living people. hopefully it will give you some hope. there is hope - it just takes some strategizing and grunt work. if musicians aren't willing to accept that aspect of it, then "woe-is-me" will rule the day . . . i don't accept it. thanks to everybody who made it out to the uptown in oakland last night for our wacky avant garde concert. there were 70 people in the room by the end and everybody seemed to have a great time! siomething along the lines of this will take place every third tuesday, so look out for it. you can't just sit back and be magic on your instrument and hope people will magically come to shows . . . for most of us, it's just not going to happen. there's a strong social element to getting people to come to gigs and if you don't bother to tap into it, then most of the time one is looking at an empty room. i'm sure there's plenty of people who think i suck and i'm full of shit, but apparently what i do have is enough moxy and energy to try to get people to come out and see this kind of weird music. i try to make it appealing to them somehow - you know, try to make them think it's not going to be some painfully protracted, drawn-out exercise in repressed chin scratching. my music isn't that and some people seem to relate to or enjoy that. find a fucking angle folks. i don't have it made, but i do the best with what i've got. we all owe that to ourselves. ww On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) "Matt J. Ingalls" writes: > my first reaction is: > well you can't even get people to come to concerts! From phil at philipgelb.com Wed May 21 15:19:46 2008 From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:19:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <20080521.151337.3908.2.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080521.151337.3908.2.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <4D8CD2E8-293A-4F5B-AAE9-DE4A2265976E@philipgelb.com> i discovered that if you charge a premium fee, offer some really good food before the gig with excellent table service, people line up to come hear new music. And people who are not part of the scene come. However, those who are part of the scene are rarely to be found at this series, oddly. Recent solo performances on the series by Mark Dresser and Vinny Golia have truly been over the top masterpieces. Shoko Hikage is next on June 14 phil Philip Gelb vegetarian chef shakuhachi player, teacher phil at philipgelb.com http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb http://www.linkedin.com/in/inthemoodforfood http://www.yelp.com/biz/in-the-mood-for-food-oakland On May 21, 2008, at 3:12 PM, weasel walter wrote: > matt - come towards the light . . . i will book a show sometime soon > where you will play to actual living people. hopefully it will give > you > some hope. there is hope - it just takes some strategizing and grunt > work. if musicians aren't willing to accept that aspect of it, then > "woe-is-me" will rule the day . . . i don't accept it. > > thanks to everybody who made it out to the uptown in oakland last > night > for our wacky avant garde concert. there were 70 people in the room by > the end and everybody seemed to have a great time! siomething along > the > lines of this will take place every third tuesday, so look out for it. > > you can't just sit back and be magic on your instrument and hope > people > will magically come to shows . . . for most of us, it's just not > going to > happen. there's a strong social element to getting people to come > to gigs > and if you don't bother to tap into it, then most of the time one is > looking at an empty room. > > i'm sure there's plenty of people who think i suck and i'm full of > shit, > but apparently what i do have is enough moxy and energy to try to get > people to come out and see this kind of weird music. i try to make it > appealing to them somehow - you know, try to make them think it's not > going to be some painfully protracted, drawn-out exercise in repressed > chin scratching. my music isn't that and some people seem to relate > to or > enjoy that. > > find a fucking angle folks. i don't have it made, but i do the best > with > what i've got. we all owe that to ourselves. > > ww > > On Wed, 21 May 2008 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT) "Matt J. Ingalls" > writes: >> my first reaction is: >> well you can't even get people to come to concerts! > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 21 15:27:46 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:27:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: Uh, were you wearing your glasses? There were about 40, including musicians. sl Weasel wrote: thanks to everybody who made it out to the uptown in oakland last night for our wacky avant garde concert. there were 70 people in the room by the end and everybody seemed to have a great time! From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 21 15:39:34 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:39:34 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More concerts/attendance Message-ID: There were approximately 20 audience members at the sfSound show at 21 Grand vs. 30 at the Uptown show, which was free. Both shows were held on Tuesday nights. The majority of both audiences were other musicians and significant others of musicians. sl From weaselw at juno.com Wed May 21 15:50:04 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:50:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: <20080521.155015.3908.4.weaselw@juno.com> i don't think so sarah. you didn't see the door count, i did. ww On Wed, 21 May 2008 15:27:46 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> writes: > Uh, were you wearing your glasses? There were about 40, including > musicians. > > sl > > Weasel wrote: > thanks to everybody who made it out to the uptown in oakland last > night > for our wacky avant garde concert. there were 70 people in the room > by > the end and everybody seemed to have a great time! > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Wed May 21 15:52:42 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:52:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More concerts/attendance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think Audiences have been fine in the last few years. I think playing regularly helps. The genius coming down off the mountain once a year strategy does not seem to work at all. Also, if you are only playing out 4 times a year it tends to sound like it. There are ways to push a project you want a bigger audience for. It isn't all that tough to figure out. The Uptown was cool last night, the staff was nice enough and I much preferred it to the Black Box. On May 21, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > There were approximately 20 audience members at the sfSound show at > 21 Grand > vs. 30 at the Uptown show, which was free. Both shows were held on > Tuesday > nights. The majority of both audiences were other musicians and > significant > others of musicians. > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From lx.rudis at gmail.com Wed May 21 16:11:08 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:11:08 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] anyone going to see Cluster at HML in big sur friday? Message-ID: <7272233a0805211611j10a0a8d8n22541407ebf7f2af@mail.gmail.com> as it reads. if anyone's headed down there and would like help with gas costs, lemme know. car's still undriveable, dammit. :( ...i promise not to talk about myspace or new media. lx From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 21 16:38:27 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:38:27 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: I do have a habit of counting attendees at shows, but I wasn't paying as close attention as I usually do ... It makes me wonder how they counted. sl >i don't think so sarah. you didn't see the door count, i did. >ww On Wed, 21 May 2008 15:27:46 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> writes: > Uh, were you wearing your glasses? There were about 40, including > musicians. > > sl > > Weasel wrote: > thanks to everybody who made it out to the uptown in oakland last > night > for our wacky avant garde concert. there were 70 people in the room > by > the end and everybody seemed to have a great time! > > > ________________ From weaselw at juno.com Wed May 21 16:56:44 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:56:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: <20080521.165645.3908.8.weaselw@juno.com> off the top of my head i can actually name or identify 50 and that's not counting a bunch of people i didn't know or recognize. my guess is they counted people coming through the front door. this is not a pissing match. i'm just sick of people whining about stuff like low turnouts. i've done it, but my attitude now is to work not to be ignored. ww On Wed, 21 May 2008 16:38:27 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> writes: > I do have a habit of counting attendees at shows, but I wasn't paying > as > close attention as I usually do ... It makes me wonder how they > counted. > > sl > > >i don't think so sarah. you didn't see the door count, i did. > > >ww > > On Wed, 21 May 2008 15:27:46 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at > 21grand.org> > writes: > > Uh, were you wearing your glasses? There were about 40, including > > musicians. > > > > sl > > > > Weasel wrote: > > thanks to everybody who made it out to the uptown in oakland last > > night > > for our wacky avant garde concert. there were 70 people in the > room > > by > > the end and everybody seemed to have a great time! > > > > > > ________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 21 17:28:52 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:28:52 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: - Well then, let's work to get 70 people at the shows you have coming up at 21 Grand in June! sl off the top of my head i can actually name or identify 50 and that's not counting a bunch of people i didn't know or recognize. my guess is they counted people coming through the front door. this is not a pissing match. i'm just sick of people whining about stuff like low turnouts. i've done it, but my attitude now is to work not to be ignored. ww On Wed, 21 May 2008 16:38:27 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> writes: > I do have a habit of counting attendees at shows, but I wasn't paying > as > close attention as I usually do ... It makes me wonder how they > counted. > > sl From weaselw at juno.com Wed May 21 17:37:28 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:37:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: <20080521.173729.3908.9.weaselw@juno.com> yeah, lets do that. ww On Wed, 21 May 2008 17:28:52 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> writes: > - Well then, let's work to get 70 people at the shows you have coming > up at > 21 Grand in June! > > sl From aliciabyer at gmail.com Wed May 21 19:44:01 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 19:44:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <20080521.173729.3908.9.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080521.173729.3908.9.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <4834DDF1.7080107@gmail.com> re: low turnouts.... What are the PR things that happen for most shows? I know that somebody has figured this out more than me, but I'm just curious. Does the Transbay Calendar drop calendars off in many different places? I can think of a lot of bookstores and music places and bars/hangouts off the top of my head that could use some. Maybe the Transbay could have a more "flyer-type ad thing" instead of just the calendar, which you pretty much have to be hip to already to know what it is. I know that shows are listed in the papers but I think a lot of people that aren't musicians don't get into this music because they're just not exposed, not because they already hate experimental/new music. It's like.. most people just get into what their friends are into, which inevitably links back to pop music somehow, unless you have a friend that plays the freaky saxophone or went to Mills, so.. I think that's why all the audience members are already freaky musicians. What about a PR compilation CD-R!!! haha just kidding. alicia weasel walter wrote: > yeah, lets do that. > > ww > > On Wed, 21 May 2008 17:28:52 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > writes: > >> - Well then, let's work to get 70 people at the shows you have coming >> up at >> 21 Grand in June! >> >> sl >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From slusser at pixar.com Wed May 21 20:22:34 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:22:34 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: <4834DDF1.7080107@gmail.com> References: <20080521.173729.3908.9.weaselw@juno.com> <4834DDF1.7080107@gmail.com> Message-ID: On May 21, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > re: low turnouts.... > > Does the Transbay Calendar drop calendars off in many different > places? > > What about a PR compilation CD-R!!! haha just kidding. In the early days, Rent Romus helped organize the local venue distribution for the Transbay circulation desk. Many of us had our routes for dropping a handful off. (I did Oakland/Berkeley music stores.) M-Ingalls also encouraged taking a bunch to distribute at concerts and shows in a larger musical sphere. But then, as now, participation in the publication shrank, and we just went to (mostly) mail. A free CD compilation would be a great thing to hand out everywhere, really. The trick is to find the volunteer who would do it even-handed and judiciously, and for free. (The Transbay might be able to contribute or raise some basic CDr production funds.) The real task is arbitrating the contents. We all have a different idea of what is representative (lower case, ecstatic, laptop, compositional). It probably would be best to be Cage-ian and do it by lottery, for both inclusion and track order. Then you get John Lee and Matt Ingalls to stream it from Bayimproviser and sfsoundradio. We (the Improvised Music Society?) did this 15 or 20 years ago on cassette. Even though it was produced by a person from one extreme faction (Chris Milner of The Molecules), it actually came out pretty inclusive. I think we mailed it out with the pre-cursor of the Transbay Calendar. Was called Free-way then? Is it too soon to start talking about the Skronkathon? From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Wed May 21 21:10:25 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:10:25 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops In-Reply-To: References: <20080521.173729.3908.9.weaselw@juno.com> <4834DDF1.7080107@gmail.com> Message-ID: skronk away!!! On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:22 PM, David Slusser wrote: > On May 21, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: >> re: low turnouts.... >> >> Does the Transbay Calendar drop calendars off in many different >> places? >> >> What about a PR compilation CD-R!!! haha just kidding. > > In the early days, Rent Romus helped organize the local venue > distribution > for the Transbay circulation desk. Many of us had our routes for > dropping > a handful off. (I did Oakland/Berkeley music stores.) M-Ingalls also > encouraged > taking a bunch to distribute at concerts and shows in a larger > musical sphere. > But then, as now, participation in the publication shrank, and we > just went to > (mostly) mail. > > A free CD compilation would be a great thing to hand out everywhere, > really. > The trick is to find the volunteer who would do it even-handed and > judiciously, > and for free. (The Transbay might be able to contribute or raise > some basic > CDr production funds.) The real task is arbitrating the contents. > We all have a > different idea of what is representative (lower case, ecstatic, > laptop, compositional). > It probably would be best to be Cage-ian and do it by lottery, for > both inclusion > and track order. Then you get John Lee and Matt Ingalls to stream it > from Bayimproviser > and sfsoundradio. > > We (the Improvised Music Society?) did this 15 or 20 years ago on > cassette. Even > though it was produced by a person from one extreme faction (Chris > Milner of The > Molecules), it actually came out pretty inclusive. I think we mailed > it out with the > pre-cursor of the Transbay Calendar. Was called Free-way then? > > Is it too soon to start talking about the Skronkathon? > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Wed May 21 23:41:51 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:41:51 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Harassment Message-ID: To the list and PG. PG Wrote: >>This feels a bit like being harrassed, but...here goes. Truth is, I'm not enjoying this conversation, mostly because this subject is so over for me. Wow. Both of my replies to you had "wink" emoticons in them, intended to indicate that I was just ribbing you a little. I'm truly sorry that you interpreted it as harassment. Believe me, I'm not enjoying this either. That's precisely why I bowed out of this discussion two weeks ago, after the barrage of...uh, harassment I received in reply for raising what I thought (and still do think) was a legitimate question. Sheesh.....some folks here really do need to take a stress pill once in a while. I promise you and everyone else, I will say no more about this. Besides, I just discovered this guy on MySpace who sums it all up for me anyway: http://www.myspace.com/joeylinello ;-) From michaelz at zoka.com Thu May 22 09:07:34 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:07:34 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Harassment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/21/08, Michael Henry wrote: >I promise you and everyone else, I will say no more about this. >Besides, I just discovered this guy on MySpace who sums it all up >for me anyway: > >http://www.myspace.com/joeylinello This guy must be the real deal -- there's even a tribute band for his music: MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 22 09:20:57 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:20:57 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: Free Public Relations and Marketing Strategies Workshops Message-ID: Alicia wrote: It's like.. most people just get into what their friends are into, which inevitably links back to pop music somehow, unless you have a friend that plays the freaky saxophone or went to Mills, so.. I think that's why all the audience members are already freaky musicians. -- Well, that's a big part of it, in my experience, and the illustrious Mr. Walter mentioned this earlier - a large part of concert-going is social. For a lot of people, they are more likely to go to an event if friends are going, or they know that people they like will be there (you can expand this category of "people they like" to attractive members of the desired sex that may pay attention to you for the purpose of generalizing human behavior). The marketing people know this, and that's why there's generally ongoing searches for "early adopters" and "tastemakers" and why people like Malcolm Gladwad, er Gladwell, make lots of money writing dopey books and essays where he coins dopey terms like "mavens" to assist the marketing people in coming up with strategies and terminology for things that the average person with half a brain (which probably includes some of these marketing people) already knows and observes regularly, but I'll stop the rant there before it becomes of Michael Henry-esque proportions ;) sl From td at pixar.com Thu May 22 10:46:16 2008 From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] STEIM funding trouble Message-ID: STEIM has been an unbelievably important technical and creative resource for people interested in electronic musical performance for many years. Now there are grumblings from their main source of support within the Dutch government, and they're staring to get worried about their future funding: > Things are not well at STEIM. We are in the danger of losing our > structural funding from the government, based on a review from the > advisor board which called us 'closed and only appealing to a niche > audience'. The outlook isn't exactly bleak, but at the moment our future > is unclear. More details here: http://www.steim.org/steim/funding_in_danger/ Letters of support should be addressed to: Email: knock at steim.nl Fax: + 31 (0)20 6264262 Address: Achtergracht 19, 1017WL Amsterdam, The Netherlands While personal letters are always a better idea, you can also use the online support letter form posted at http://www.steim.org/steim/funding_in_danger/index.php?doc=reageren&lang=EN -- Tom Duff. The future is over. From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 22 10:58:52 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:58:52 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] STEIM funding trouble Message-ID: Hmm, sounds like Europe is taking a page from the US playbook in terms of government funding for the arts ... Unfortunately. sl Tom Duff Wrote: > Things are not well at STEIM. We are in the danger of losing our > structural funding from the government, based on a review from the > advisor board which called us 'closed and only appealing to a niche > audience'. The outlook isn't exactly bleak, but at the moment our future > is unclear. More details here: http://www.steim.org/steim/funding_in_danger/ From ingalls at mills.edu Thu May 22 11:12:19 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt J. Ingalls) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Who is "you"? Some people get more people to their concerts than others. ... well i was mostly thinking in the context of the thread - musicians getting together -- and about how careerist/self-centered focus of most musicians (self included) - not very many go to other people's gigs, -- or to say another way: if "you"(i) have no interest or no effort to go to someone's performances, would "you"(i) go hear that person talk about some technique/trick/idea? -m From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu May 22 11:13:20 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:13:20 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] STEIM funding trouble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C170ACC-AE5F-4962-A250-05FC98C45F7C@balancepointacoustics.com> I am happy to trade their two or three decades of funding and then getting cut off for our nothing ever! On May 22, 2008, at 10:58 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Hmm, sounds like Europe is taking a page from the US playbook in > terms of > government funding for the arts ... Unfortunately. > > sl > > Tom Duff Wrote: >> Things are not well at STEIM. We are in the danger of losing our >> structural funding from the government, based on a review from the >> advisor board which called us 'closed and only appealing to a niche >> audience'. The outlook isn't exactly bleak, but at the moment our >> future >> is unclear. > > More details here: http://www.steim.org/steim/funding_in_danger/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 22 12:02:37 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:02:37 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] STEIM funding trouble Message-ID: Well, a number of folks are funded at the City level - though from my experience and what I've heard, San Francisco will consistently fund and support organizations, but it's somewhat based on longevity - Mr. Raskin or Adam Fong or anyone else involved w/SF orgs, feel free to correct me. I often struggle with what and how much to share with people here about the inner workings of 21 Grand, as well as what my role is here. I don't want to provoke more "woe-is-me/woe-is-us" sentiment, because I feel to a large extent that is a bit self-defeating. However, I feel like a lot of people are supportive, and I want to encourage people to feel that 21 Grand is part of the "community" and is in a large sense "theirs" - as opposed to "mine." I will tell people that we exist because there is a need for a space like ours here, and that if/when that need goes away - whether people stop doing weird music or there are other venues doing what we do better that the artists we serve prefer to present their work - we would quit and go back to what we were doing before we had this na?ve idea to start an avant-gardish arts space in Oakland - though I've almost forgotten what that was at this point. Of course, it's difficult from our vantage point to properly assess: there've been quite a few new music series in Oakland start and end over the course of our lifespan ...and there have been various points when I've felt it's time to throw in the towel, but the situation will change a few months later. 21 Grand has received approximately $18,000 from the City of Oakland over the last 3 years, though we were not funded this year ...the explanation is a bit complicated, but I personally feel like we were victims of my honesty: in terms of the $15,000 or so that Darren and I personally put into the organization back in 2002 and 2003 when we were really suffering financially; in telling the panelist assigned to interview us that our target audience is college educated (which at least one other panelist determined made us "inaccessible"), as well as not inventing programs for kids or educational programs for the sake of having them in order to garner more funding, regardless of whether they were relevant to what our main purpose is. (I think ROVA's Informance series is quite good, btw.) I would be interested in hosting workshops or other educational activities at 21 Grand, and anyone with ideas and enthusiasm for doing so, as well as helping us raise money ... Feel free to contact me and we can discuss it off-list. Thanks for reading, sl Damon wrote: I am happy to trade their two or three decades of funding and then getting cut off for our nothing ever! From jfheule at gmail.com Thu May 22 12:42:46 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:42:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805221242w1e46a35dqd0a2368e7c852ec3@mail.gmail.com> I've been feeling that the improv/new music community is pretty bleak in this area -- musicians not going to other musicians' shows. The noise and rock communities seem a lot better about it. That why I often try to have my improv groups play with noise & rock groups. Why is that? Are new music people more serious? nerdier? older? having more other responsibilities? self-centered & careerist? Weasel's totally right about putting work into creating a bill that will bring people out to the show, promoting it, and running it well. It makes a huge difference in attendance. The two biggest improv shows I've recently played that readily come to mind are: the Bay/Oslo Double Trio, which I booked as a Club Sandwich show with some local and touring weirdo rock & pop groups. ATA was completely packed and we were pretty well received. The other show was ELF ASS at this warehouse in Minneapolis, where we played with a bunch of grind/thrash bands, noise bands, etc. Again, a lot of people were there, a lot of them were really into our music, and we got paid a decent amount of money to support the tour. There are obviously other working approaches. Phil Gelb has the right idea too, but that "premium fee" is why this member of the community has never gone. If that's the route you're going, you're targeting a different audience than the struggling musician. I'd check out some workshops if someone puts them on. jacob On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Matt J. Ingalls wrote: > well i was mostly thinking in the context of the thread - musicians > getting together -- and about how careerist/self-centered focus of most > musicians (self included) - not very many go to other people's gigs, > -- or to say another way: if "you"(i) have no interest or no effort to go > to someone's performances, would "you"(i) go hear that person talk about > some technique/trick/idea? -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From polly.moller at gmail.com Thu May 22 12:46:18 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:46:18 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860805221242w1e46a35dqd0a2368e7c852ec3@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c5cfa860805221242w1e46a35dqd0a2368e7c852ec3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40805221246q75ae4a0fh31bb73f4384a3b06@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:42 PM, jacob felix heule wrote: > There are obviously other working approaches. Phil Gelb has the right > idea too, but that "premium fee" is why this member of the community > has never gone. If that's the route you're going, you're targeting a > different audience than the struggling musician. > The premium fee is what keeps me from attending every single month, like I'd like to -- but it's worth every penny if you can save up for it. I've never had any brussels sprouts there, though. P. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ ------------------------------------------------------------ From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 22 12:56:27 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:56:27 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Promotion of New Music scene Message-ID: I'll give you my most honest experience. I apologize if it's a little windy, but there are a lot of points to touch on. When I first started organizing shows (at Luggage Store and elsewhere), I'd promote the shows as widely as possible - sending calendar items to the SF Weekly/Bay Guardian, making sure the local radio calendars got it, printing up little fliers and of course, distributing to all the "potentially interested" email lists I could think of. I have to admit, when you put that all together, it does get exhausting. Many of these avenues lead to dead ends more often than not - either they don't pick it up, or you don't get any audience members from them. For example, 3 or 4 times a year the SF Weekly or Guardian will do a nice feature on one of our musicians or events, but other than that, they've only printed my calendar submissions about 1 out of 3 times. (Even in the tiny print events calendar.) Radio has been getting better recently. KFJC and KUSF have been friendly recently, when it comes to doing on-air appearances. KALX has some friendly djs who will play our stuff, but I haven't successfully gotten anyone an interview there yet. Even KPFA has some friendly shows for noise music and ambient-ish music. The Luggage Store series has organized weekly ticket giveaways at both KUSF and KALX. I think KALX gradually lost interest, but KUSF is still good to us. It is a little bit of a let down when the dj offers free tickets and nobody calls for them, which happens about half the time. All the above stations have been great in my recent experience about including music listings on their on-air calendars. Regarding little print cards distributed at venues: I do think they are effective...not so much in getting new people as they are in helping the regular fans to remember the event. In trying to get features/interviews on local radio or press, I feel that I were to bug them every time I have a show, they'd get tired of me pretty quick, so I save those efforts for shows that I think are fairly major, or will be of particular interest to the paper/station. For example, I do a really big push for SFEMF. We simply don't have the stamina to do a major publicity push every week at the Luggage Store, so we do the things that have been the most effective: bayimproviser/transbay calendar, a few experimental music lists, and KUSF events calendar. The least attended shows tend to be ones where the musicians do no promotion of their own. I do think an effective thing would be to point some efforts towards venues that don't have our music as frequently, but have those audiences that might be interested. This includes ATA, shows at Yerba Buena, Hemlock Tavern, as well as certain "out" shows at places like Cafe Du Nord and Bottom of the Hill. I think those would be excellent places to put a 'newbie-friendly' version of the Transbay Calendar. Matt On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Alicia Byer was like: > re: low turnouts.... > > What are the PR things that happen for most shows? I know that somebody > has figured this out more than me, but I'm just curious. Does the > Transbay Calendar drop calendars off in many different places? I can > think of a lot of bookstores and music places and bars/hangouts off the > top of my head that could use some. Maybe the Transbay could have a more > "flyer-type ad thing" instead of just the calendar, which you pretty > much have to be hip to already to know what it is. > > I know that shows are listed in the papers but I think a lot of people > that aren't musicians don't get into this music because they're just not > exposed, not because they already hate experimental/new music. It's > like.. most people just get into what their friends are into, which > inevitably links back to pop music somehow, unless you have a friend > that plays the freaky saxophone or went to Mills, so.. I think that's > why all the audience members are already freaky musicians. > > What about a PR compilation CD-R!!! haha just kidding. > > alicia From phil at philipgelb.com Thu May 22 12:58:10 2008 From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 12:58:10 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40805221246q75ae4a0fh31bb73f4384a3b06@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c5cfa860805221242w1e46a35dqd0a2368e7c852ec3@mail.gmail.com> <2eb068d40805221246q75ae4a0fh31bb73f4384a3b06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7BE7E730-6346-4E92-8BB4-DB2DEC71CC3F@philipgelb.com> Next time you want to come, i will make sure there are brussel sprouts on your plate. brussel sprout ice cream if Greenlief also shows up that night :) Philip Gelb vegetarian chef shakuhachi player, teacher phil at philipgelb.com http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb http://www.linkedin.com/in/inthemoodforfood http://www.yelp.com/biz/in-the-mood-for-food-oakland On May 22, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Polly Moller wrote: > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:42 PM, jacob felix heule > wrote: > >> There are obviously other working approaches. Phil Gelb has the right >> idea too, but that "premium fee" is why this member of the community >> has never gone. If that's the route you're going, you're targeting a >> different audience than the struggling musician. >> > > The premium fee is what keeps me from attending every single month, > like I'd like to -- but it's worth every penny if you can save up for > it. I've never had any brussels sprouts there, though. > P. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.pollymoller.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From weaselw at juno.com Thu May 22 13:22:09 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:22:09 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts Message-ID: <20080522.132511.3908.43.weaselw@juno.com> > Why is that? Are new music people more serious? nerdier? older? having > more other responsibilities? self-centered & careerist? i've thought about this question a lot - partially because i don't really go to ANY gigs - improv, rock, whatever - anymore. this is talking out loud in hopes that maybe something i say will resonate with somebody else or at least help answer the question. just imagine it's not "me" answering, but some anonymous musician. maybe it's most of us. part of why i don't go is because i really don't have any disposable income. i spend almost all of my money on bills, rent, food and credit card payments. i don't really buy anything else. my credit card debt is the one-ton gorilla that's been in the room with me since the mid-90s and until i can get him out the door, it's tough to justify the purchase of any more "entertainment" at the moment. other parts are: - i don't have the physical energy any more for the whole dragged-out, all-nighter "show" ritual - everyday pretty much everything i do is connected to music, so i don't really have any desire to listen to music for purely recreational purposes anymore - i went to shows more back when i was more interested in "having fun". i don't really care about "having fun" anymore. i'm older and have more pressing matters that need to be attended to - i don't enjoy socializing as much as i used to when i was younger - i have to save what hearing ability i have left for myself and my own projects - most venues sound like utter shit and most soundpersons are totally inept and more often than not seem to work as an actual detriment to what the musicians are doing - i don't have the free time anymore and when i have it i like to sleep - i'm not very interested in most bands that exist right now - most musicians i see playing interesting music right now are hard on the eyes (ha ha ha) so . . . there ya go. devil's advocate. ww From weaselw at juno.com Thu May 22 13:28:41 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:28:41 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Promotion of New Music scene Message-ID: <20080522.133103.3908.50.weaselw@juno.com> one more note about promotion: in most cases putting just putting a list of names on a flier or poster will mean nothing to anybody who doesn't know who those people are. that's not a sell. people either ignore it or go, "oh so-and-so is playing. never heard of them. no thanks". 21 grand has the right idea with their calendar descriptions. i usually try to put either some provocative graphics or some kind of signifiers or synopsis on the promo material. the last one said "FREE JAZZ CONCERT!" ha ha ha. more people know what "free jazz" is than they know who i am, so it automatically expanded the range of the promotion. ww From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 22 14:28:48 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:28:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Promotion of New Music scene Message-ID: I think I've written about this at length before ... A few quick observations from experience as a producer of shows and audience member: 1. flyers do help - especially if you give them to people and express enthusiasm about the event in question - yes, it's usually "preaching to the converted" - but the key is reduce the number of people that would say in retrospect, "Oh, I didn't hear about it. I would have liked to go." or "Oh yeah, I was going to go but ... Who was playing again?" 2. shows should have time/space for socializing (the physical space of some venues constricts this - I feel like our lobby and alley are conducive to making people feel comfortable, the patio at the Uptown is cool, the backyard at 1510 is nice, standing outside on the street at Luggage Store and the former Jazz House - not so much, but this is just my personal experience). The worse for me are the shows w/low audience attendance that drag: start late, then take a lot of time in between sets, and the sets are long. Banter with or addressing the audience can be helpful ... Phillip Greenlief has done this well ...same with Mr. Walter. 3. there is not an exact science to determining whether someone is playing out too much and detracting from one's draw, or whether too many shows are booked on any given night. 4.there are people that won't stay (or show up) to shows that run past 10:30 on weeknights, there are others that won't show up until 10:30. 5. KALX promo is kinda flaky. 6. I feel like the internet, albeit it makes it easier to promote last minute things, also tends to create groups/sites that are national or international in scope, such that people lose track of the local. sl Matt wrote: We simply don't have the stamina to do a major publicity push every week at the Luggage Store, so we do the things that have been the most effective: bayimproviser/transbay calendar, a few experimental music lists, and KUSF events calendar. The least attended shows tend to be ones where the musicians do no promotion of their own. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu May 22 14:37:58 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <7BE7E730-6346-4E92-8BB4-DB2DEC71CC3F@philipgelb.com> Message-ID: <826938.27754.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> brussell sprout ice cream...we may have to coordinate that, polly. pg Philip Gelb wrote: Next time you want to come, i will make sure there are brussel sprouts on your plate. brussel sprout ice cream if Greenlief also shows up that night :) Philip Gelb vegetarian chef shakuhachi player, teacher phil at philipgelb.com http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb http://www.linkedin.com/in/inthemoodforfood http://www.yelp.com/biz/in-the-mood-for-food-oakland On May 22, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Polly Moller wrote: > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:42 PM, jacob felix heule > wrote: > >> There are obviously other working approaches. Phil Gelb has the right >> idea too, but that "premium fee" is why this member of the community >> has never gone. If that's the route you're going, you're targeting a >> different audience than the struggling musician. >> > > The premium fee is what keeps me from attending every single month, > like I'd like to -- but it's worth every penny if you can save up for > it. I've never had any brussels sprouts there, though. > P. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.pollymoller.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu May 22 15:01:53 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:01:53 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40805221246q75ae4a0fh31bb73f4384a3b06@mail.gmail.com> References: <9c5cfa860805221242w1e46a35dqd0a2368e7c852ec3@mail.gmail.com> <2eb068d40805221246q75ae4a0fh31bb73f4384a3b06@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0522867C-BA6F-4DAC-BCD3-5403107D98CF@balancepointacoustics.com> All respect to Gelb and other Vegetarians, if I ever have that much extra $$ to spend a meal it is going include some seafood or a prime cut of meat or both. I already did my time as a vegetarian and even Vegan. My personal version might be going to Harris' steak house and listening to to Dresser's latest solo in the car on the way. The food and music concept is a good one, there is a really nice Mexican place next to Blue Six, I had some tacos there last night. It is good to have a nice match for the venues: Louisiana Fried Chicken/21 Grand, LS/Tu Laun, etc. On May 22, 2008, at 12:46 PM, Polly Moller wrote: > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:42 PM, jacob felix heule > wrote: > >> There are obviously other working approaches. Phil Gelb has the right >> idea too, but that "premium fee" is why this member of the community >> has never gone. If that's the route you're going, you're targeting a >> different audience than the struggling musician. >> > > The premium fee is what keeps me from attending every single month, > like I'd like to -- but it's worth every penny if you can save up for > it. I've never had any brussels sprouts there, though. > P. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.pollymoller.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollymoller/ > ------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com Thu May 22 15:08:19 2008 From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <0522867C-BA6F-4DAC-BCD3-5403107D98CF@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <608044.54931.qm@web58012.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- Damon Smith wrote: I already did my time as a > vegetarian and even > Vegan. Yes, Damon, I remember. Scene: D.S. sitting in 7-11 parking lot eating a Snickers bar and Slurpy, looks up at J.L. with a look like he's had a complete revelation and says, "You know, just b/c you're a vegetarian doesn't mean you eat healthy." I'm pretty sure Gelb's food is a cut above 7-11, or even the hippie dinners we used to have on Emerald St. Jacob Lindsay http://www.bayimproviser.com/artistdetail.asp?artist_id=44 From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 22 15:10:53 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:10:53 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts Message-ID: Where is this place? I was going to check out Damon's set w/Jen Baker when they played a few months ago, thinking it was probably close to El Farolito at 24th (near Harrison) where I was getting burritos, but I couldn't find it and I didn't have the address on me. sl Damon wrote: The food and music concept is a good one, there is a really nice Mexican place next to Blue Six, I had some tacos there last night. From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 22 15:16:46 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:16:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts Message-ID: Speaking of Damonic revelations: I remember when he got his i-pod. I've almost forgotten the pre-ipod Damon rants about recorded music. sl Jacob reminisced: --- Damon Smith wrote: I already did my time as a > vegetarian and even > Vegan. Yes, Damon, I remember. Scene: D.S. sitting in 7-11 parking lot eating a Snickers bar and Slurpy, looks up at J.L. with a look like he's had a complete revelation and says, "You know, just b/c you're a vegetarian doesn't mean you eat healthy." From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu May 22 15:30:52 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:30:52 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Promotion of New Music scene In-Reply-To: <20080522.133103.3908.50.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080522.133103.3908.50.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: Another important point is just caring about your own music. Self- deprecation might seem cute, but it doesn't make anyone want to come hear you. If you are not into your own music you can't expect anyone else to be. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu May 22 15:33:47 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:33:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0633BA0B-E0D4-4951-8329-EE048EA4293E@balancepointacoustics.com> I'll admit to that. Some of consideration has to be given to improvements in sound quality and storage, as well as having video. On May 22, 2008, at 3:16 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Speaking of Damonic revelations: I remember when he got his i-pod. > I've > almost forgotten the pre-ipod Damon rants about recorded music. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Thu May 22 15:34:46 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:34:46 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] So about those workshops... Message-ID: So hey, Being that there's been some interest in this idea and the foci of the list convo's is moving elsewhere, would those interested in this whole workshop concept please email me off list so we can begin working on setting up some sort of game plan ala the where's and whens and hows and who's and whatnot? much appreciated, would i be, yes. word, t. From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Thu May 22 15:35:16 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 18:35:16 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Promotion of New Music scene In-Reply-To: References: <20080522.133103.3908.50.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: Amen. On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Damon Smith wrote: > Another important point is just caring about your own music. Self- > deprecation might seem cute, but it doesn't make anyone want to come > hear you. > If you are not into your own music you can't expect anyone else to be. > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu May 22 17:18:01 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <894404.72751.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> bluesix acoustic is on 24th street in the heart of the mission produce district - just east of treat street. it's a small store-front, and easy to miss. it has a metal framed security gate that covers its facade (i think it's painted yellow), and has twin windows on each side of the front door. i've played there a few times - solo, in trio with carl hubsch and gino, in duo with karen fox and last night with damon and patrick briener. the solo gig was poorly attended, but it was back when they were first starting out. last night had a "crowd" in there, but it's small, and 10 people make the place feel full. i think we had about 12-15 people there last night (including musicians). it's a few blocks from 24th mission bart...easy to get to, and yes, it's a little over a block from el farolito, and, as damon has pointed out, two doors down from taqueria vallarta...a bit greasy, but damn good - totally authentic - just like eating off the taco stands you find in the street in mexico. there is a wednesday night series that luke westbrook is hosting called "the listening hut". he usually has three groups - one solo, one duo, one trio. you can find luke at myspace and he can book you for wednesday nights. joe lewis lives in back and offers gigs on friday and saturday night. to book a gig with him, you have to go through his myspace profile - look at the calendar, see what is booked and what isn't, and if you see a night that is open that you want, you message him and he gets back to you. i think the myspace address is: www.myspace.com/bluesixcenter please note - this guy wants only acoustic music at his series...and luke is respecting joe's rule on that... pg Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: Where is this place? I was going to check out Damon's set w/Jen Baker when they played a few months ago, thinking it was probably close to El Farolito at 24th (near Harrison) where I was getting burritos, but I couldn't find it and I didn't have the address on me. sl Damon wrote: The food and music concept is a good one, there is a really nice Mexican place next to Blue Six, I had some tacos there last night. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From ej at ejmarshall.com Thu May 22 17:43:11 2008 From: ej at ejmarshall.com (Eric Marshall) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:43:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <894404.72751.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <894404.72751.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Anyone know if Joe has a piano at Bluesix? thanks, Eric On May 22, 2008, at 5:18 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > bluesix acoustic is on 24th street in the heart of the mission > produce district - just east of treat street. it's a small store- > front, and easy to miss. it has a metal framed security gate that > covers its facade (i think it's painted yellow), and has twin > windows on each side of the front door. i've played there a few > times - solo, in trio with carl hubsch and gino, in duo with karen > fox and last night with damon and patrick briener. the solo gig was > poorly attended, but it was back when they were first starting out. > last night had a "crowd" in there, but it's small, and 10 people > make the place feel full. i think we had about 12-15 people there > last night (including musicians). > > it's a few blocks from 24th mission bart...easy to get to, and > yes, it's a little over a block from el farolito, and, as damon has > pointed out, two doors down from taqueria vallarta...a bit greasy, > but damn good - totally authentic - just like eating off the taco > stands you find in the street in mexico. > > there is a wednesday night series that luke westbrook is hosting > called "the listening hut". he usually has three groups - one solo, > one duo, one trio. you can find luke at myspace and he can book you > for wednesday nights. > > joe lewis lives in back and offers gigs on friday and saturday > night. to book a gig with him, you have to go through his myspace > profile - look at the calendar, see what is booked and what isn't, > and if you see a night that is open that you want, you message him > and he gets back to you. i think the myspace address is: > www.myspace.com/bluesixcenter > > please note - this guy wants only acoustic music at his > series...and luke is respecting joe's rule on that... > > pg > > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Where is this place? I was going to check out Damon's set w/Jen > Baker when > they played a few months ago, thinking it was probably close to El > Farolito > at 24th (near Harrison) where I was getting burritos, but I > couldn't find it > and I didn't have the address on me. > > sl > > Damon wrote: > The food and music concept is a good one, there is a really nice > Mexican place next to Blue Six, I had some tacos there last night. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From jon_raskin at yahoo.com Thu May 22 17:48:11 2008 From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (=?utf-8?B?Sm9uIFJhc2tpbg==?=) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:48:11 +0000 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: References: <894404.72751.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <706350890-1211503738-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1490208240-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> He has an upright Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Eric Marshall Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:43:11 To:Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts Anyone know if Joe has a piano at Bluesix? thanks, Eric On May 22, 2008, at 5:18 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > bluesix acoustic is on 24th street in the heart of the mission > produce district - just east of treat street. it's a small store- > front, and easy to miss. it has a metal framed security gate that > covers its facade (i think it's painted yellow), and has twin > windows on each side of the front door. i've played there a few > times - solo, in trio with carl hubsch and gino, in duo with karen > fox and last night with damon and patrick briener. the solo gig was > poorly attended, but it was back when they were first starting out. > last night had a "crowd" in there, but it's small, and 10 people > make the place feel full. i think we had about 12-15 people there > last night (including musicians). > > it's a few blocks from 24th mission bart...easy to get to, and > yes, it's a little over a block from el farolito, and, as damon has > pointed out, two doors down from taqueria vallarta...a bit greasy, > but damn good - totally authentic - just like eating off the taco > stands you find in the street in mexico. > > there is a wednesday night series that luke westbrook is hosting > called "the listening hut". he usually has three groups - one solo, > one duo, one trio. you can find luke at myspace and he can book you > for wednesday nights. > > joe lewis lives in back and offers gigs on friday and saturday > night. to book a gig with him, you have to go through his myspace > profile - look at the calendar, see what is booked and what isn't, > and if you see a night that is open that you want, you message him > and he gets back to you. i think the myspace address is: > www.myspace.com/bluesixcenter > > please note - this guy wants only acoustic music at his > series...and luke is respecting joe's rule on that... > > pg > > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Where is this place? I was going to check out Damon's set w/Jen > Baker when > they played a few months ago, thinking it was probably close to El > Farolito > at 24th (near Harrison) where I was getting burritos, but I > couldn't find it > and I didn't have the address on me. > > sl > > Damon wrote: > The food and music concept is a good one, there is a really nice > Mexican place next to Blue Six, I had some tacos there last night. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu May 22 17:50:46 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <737446.15330.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> yes, but boy, is it ever a hammered ol' upright that sounds like it was dragged across the rockies in a covered wagon... Eric Marshall wrote: Anyone know if Joe has a piano at Bluesix? thanks, Eric On May 22, 2008, at 5:18 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > bluesix acoustic is on 24th street in the heart of the mission > produce district - just east of treat street. it's a small store- > front, and easy to miss. it has a metal framed security gate that > covers its facade (i think it's painted yellow), and has twin > windows on each side of the front door. i've played there a few > times - solo, in trio with carl hubsch and gino, in duo with karen > fox and last night with damon and patrick briener. the solo gig was > poorly attended, but it was back when they were first starting out. > last night had a "crowd" in there, but it's small, and 10 people > make the place feel full. i think we had about 12-15 people there > last night (including musicians). > > it's a few blocks from 24th mission bart...easy to get to, and > yes, it's a little over a block from el farolito, and, as damon has > pointed out, two doors down from taqueria vallarta...a bit greasy, > but damn good - totally authentic - just like eating off the taco > stands you find in the street in mexico. > > there is a wednesday night series that luke westbrook is hosting > called "the listening hut". he usually has three groups - one solo, > one duo, one trio. you can find luke at myspace and he can book you > for wednesday nights. > > joe lewis lives in back and offers gigs on friday and saturday > night. to book a gig with him, you have to go through his myspace > profile - look at the calendar, see what is booked and what isn't, > and if you see a night that is open that you want, you message him > and he gets back to you. i think the myspace address is: > www.myspace.com/bluesixcenter > > please note - this guy wants only acoustic music at his > series...and luke is respecting joe's rule on that... > > pg > > > > Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Where is this place? I was going to check out Damon's set w/Jen > Baker when > they played a few months ago, thinking it was probably close to El > Farolito > at 24th (near Harrison) where I was getting burritos, but I > couldn't find it > and I didn't have the address on me. > > sl > > Damon wrote: > The food and music concept is a good one, there is a really nice > Mexican place next to Blue Six, I had some tacos there last night. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From jon_raskin at yahoo.com Thu May 22 17:52:10 2008 From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (=?utf-8?B?Sm9uIFJhc2tpbg==?=) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:52:10 +0000 Subject: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts In-Reply-To: <706350890-1211503738-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1490208240-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <894404.72751.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com><706350890-1211503738-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1490208240-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <151108033-1211503979-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-86664335-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Perfect for improvised music than Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Jon Raskin" Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:48:11 To:"Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts He has an upright Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Eric Marshall Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 17:43:11 To:Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Workshops and brussel sprouts Anyone know if Joe has a piano at Bluesix? thanks, Eric On May 22, 2008, at 5:18 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > bluesix acoustic is on 24th street in the heart of the mission > produce district - just east of treat street. it's a small store- > front, and easy to miss. it has a metal framed security gate that > covers its facade (i think it's painted yellow), and has twin > windows on each side of the front door. i've played there a few > times - solo, in trio with carl hubsch and gino, in duo with karen > fox and last night with damon and patrick briener. the solo gig was > poorly attended, but it was back when they were first starting out. > last night had a "crowd" in there, but it's small, and 10 people > make the place feel full. i think we had about 12-15 people there > last night (including musicians). > > it's a few blocks from 24th mission bart...easy to get to, and > yes, it's a little over a block from el farolito, and, as damon has > pointed out, two doors down from taqueria vallarta...a bit greasy, > but damn good - totally authentic - just like eating off the taco > stands you find in the street in mexico. > > there is a wednesday night series that luke westbrook is hosting > called "the listening hut". he usually has three groups - one solo, > one duo, one trio. you can find luke at myspace and he can book you > for wednesday nights. > > joe lewis lives in back and offers gigs on friday and saturday > night. to book a gig with him, you have to go through his myspace > profile - look at the calendar, see what is booked and what isn't, > and if you see a night that is open that you want, you message him > and he gets back to you.