From mus21stc at aol.com Thu May 1 10:26:38 2008 From: mus21stc at aol.com (mus21stc at aol.com) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 13:26:38 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Writings about Henry Brant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CA79C7A49D08CD-FF8-1496@webmail-nd15.sysops.aol.com> <"The main thing is for a composer to stick around as long as possible and keep working. Otherwise, you miss things like this." Henry Brant on winning the Pulitzer Prize. (1913-2008)> Great! Will be printing above, along with sections of the NYT obit, plus any writing about Henry that anyone wants to send along, in 21ST-CENTURY MUSIC (P.O. Box 2842, San Anselmo, CA 94960), now online at 21st-centurymusic.com and 21stcenturymusic.blogspot.com From Gino.Robair at penton.com Thu May 1 17:35:19 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 19:35:19 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] John Butcher workshop: June 7 Message-ID: Hello everybody, English saxophonist John Butcher will be visiting the Bay Area in early June to take part in the Matthew Sperry Memorial Festival. I am putting together an improvisation workshop for him on Saturday afternoon, June 7, in Oakland. The workshop is for folks with any level of musicianship. Dancers, actors, readers, and others are also welcome. If you're not familiar with Buthcer's music, he's one of the foremost innovators on the instrument in Europe, combining a deep knowledge of multiphonic playing with circular breathing and feedback. He does workshops often in Europe, which include some of the practices developed by John Stevens among others, as well as his own concepts. He's worked with everyone from The Ex and Polwechsel to Derek Bailey and Eddie Prevost. Check out his work at www.johnbutcher.org.uk . The workshop will last around three hours. Fee is $35 a person. Please contact me off-list if you are interested. I have a limited number of spaces available. Thanks! Cheers, ginorobair From djcypod at gmail.com Thu May 1 20:57:50 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 20:57:50 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Eco-touring Message-ID: this company helps bands plan eco-friendly tours, could be the wave of the future: http://www.reverbrock.org/site/ From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Fri May 2 11:00:59 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:00:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Eco-touring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03916575-09FE-459B-AF3D-E00FF36242F5@balancepointacoustics.com> Might be nice for making Jack Johnson and his fans feel smug and better about themselves, but I doubt it really does much for the situation. On May 1, 2008, at 8:57 PM, beau wrote: > this company helps bands plan eco-friendly tours, could be the wave of > the future: > http://www.reverbrock.org/site/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From jfheule at gmail.com Fri May 2 11:13:39 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:13:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Eco-touring In-Reply-To: <03916575-09FE-459B-AF3D-E00FF36242F5@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <03916575-09FE-459B-AF3D-E00FF36242F5@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805021113q4dcbe388r5952dbbce45c6a24@mail.gmail.com> Ettrick / Tony Dryer / Tralphaz / Elf Ass just undertook a 3-week US tour in a Toyota Corolla. jacob On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Damon Smith wrote: > Might be nice for making Jack Johnson and his fans feel smug and > better about themselves, but I doubt it really does much for the > situation. > > > > On May 1, 2008, at 8:57 PM, beau wrote: > > this company helps bands plan eco-friendly tours, could be the wave of > > the future: > > http://www.reverbrock.org/site/ -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From alee at tentacle.net Fri May 2 21:37:16 2008 From: alee at tentacle.net (Alee Karim) Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 21:37:16 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring Message-ID: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> The amount of ecological impact created by many of us when we tour is relatively small. The reason those big tours need a service like this is because people like Jack Johnson transport a titanic amount of equipment and people who consume gas, waste food, etc. Oh, and yeah, it's probably good PR too... Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! A -- www.theatomicbombaudition.com www.myspace.com/aleekarim www.myspace.com/theatomicbombaudition "Peace is not just the absence of violence, it's its own thing. Just like light is its own thing." -David Lynch From jfheule at gmail.com Sat May 3 00:55:28 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 00:55:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> References: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> i don't know if this actually explains anything, but... http://flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/2456673835/in/set-72157604831982021/ On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Alee Karim wrote: > Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From bradysharp at gmail.com Sat May 3 01:10:52 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 03:10:52 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: *... and I thought one of THESE would have been better for Ecto-touring... http://tinyurl.com/6k2ryo* Brady On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:55 AM, jacob felix heule wrote: > i don't know if this actually explains anything, but... > http://flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/2456673835/in/set-72157604831982021/ > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Alee Karim wrote: > > Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! > > -- > http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix > http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Sat May 3 05:03:53 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:03:53 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: References: <9631A3EA-153D-459C-899F-882C008C18B7@tentacle.net> <9c5cfa860805030055l65f6d33mfc394bac1b7227fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: as the token eco-hippy of the lot, eh, i should probably weigh in. 1.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about touring. - let's face it - everything you do, from the driving to the food to the power used in the hall while you play is somehow or another sucking resources. granted, yeah, we all have a smaller footprint than say any major label touring jackass (especially the eco-whiners like jack johnson or moby) who has to cart their shit on multi semis and whose presence alone for one evening will generate probably a short ton of waste just from the plastic beer bottles, uneaten hot dogs, festival swag, etcetc. ...but unless you be walking from village to village with a hand-carved pan flute, you're still contributing. 2.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about music. - my bass = wood cut from a virgin forest, loaded onto a large truck, shipped to a large industrial factory, run through a large, power consuming assembly line and coated with toxic, plastic-based pigments to make it a nice, shiny color. Then the electronics, consisting of various metals mined from the earth and shipped great distances are added and finally its placed in a shipping container and loaded onto a boat (btw, there are no fuel quality restrictions placed on intl shipping vessels, so that means that cargo ships burn the cheapest, dirtiest sludge that passes for oil and ergo end up being one of the biggest fucking polluters on this planet - why we do nothing about this pickle, mi no se... oh right, cheap foreign products...), shipped across the ocean and then driven to some store to be purchased with the expectation that every time the instrument is played, it'll be plugged into the wall, sucking juice from the grid. My laptop's even worse - just remember kids, outside of the carbon footprint involved, most electronics are assembled using close-to slave labor, in close contact with such substances as mercury and cadmium day in and day out - with the full on knowledge that if enough employees complain they'll either be replaced, or the company will simply pick up and relocate to another country with even less labor and environmental concerns. I hate to say it, but with the exception of maybe Damon's ergo basses and a couple other fancy one-offs, our instruments are all, erm, not so eco-friendly in their creation, etcetc. compound this notion with the carbon-addled woes of our previous caveat and yeah, our profession is pretty eco-damned. And yes, its true that we're better than some and worse than others, but shit, its still the same damn crime - which brings me to our last, and final point of the day. 3.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about humanity. - Self-explanatory. Somehow in the past 100 years, we've managed to adopt a lifestyle that is so far removed from an ideal, harmonious existence that we once shared with with our little spacerock that unfortunately, short of some sort of en masse utopian enlightenment on the part of about 6 billion people all coming together at once to make this world a better place, the only way we might ever be able go return to "equalization," if you will, is probably gonna be due to some sort of mass die-off caused by any number of apocalyptic scenarios continually looming on the horizon. sucks to that ass-mar, ja? so uhm, yah, there you have it. amazing thought to ponder over yr early morning coffee, right? btw, how y'all doing? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 4:10 AM, Brady Sharp wrote: > *... and I thought one of THESE would have been better for Ecto-touring... > > http://tinyurl.com/6k2ryo* > > Brady > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:55 AM, jacob felix heule wrote: > > > i don't know if this actually explains anything, but... > > http://flickr.com/photos/74578389 at N00/2456673835/in/set-72157604831982021/ > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Alee Karim wrote: > > > Jacob, how DID you fit everything in your car?! > > > > -- > > http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix > > http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Sat May 3 08:57:58 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 08:57:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Solo Piece on Radio Nomad Message-ID: http://www.jourparjour.net/radio/daypieces/May/03/today.htm Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From 21grand at 21grand.org Sat May 3 15:20:58 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 15:20:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring Message-ID: The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the herd. sl Mr. Johns wrote: as the token eco-hippy of the lot, eh, i should probably weigh in. ... 2.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about music. From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Sat May 3 18:27:27 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 21:27:27 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: wow, from toyota corollas to advocating genocide in less than six posts... ...new record? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the > herd. > > sl > > Mr. Johns wrote: > as the token eco-hippy of the lot, eh, i should probably weigh in. > > ... > > 2.) there is NOTHING eco-friendly about music. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Sun May 4 21:48:51 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 21:48:51 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring Message-ID: Who's advocating genocide? I'm merely stating that it would be better for the environment if fewer people were musicians. Instead of engaging in such a non-eco-friendly activity as music, they can take up much more eco-harmonious past-times such as being power sellers on ebay, segway polo players, mystery shoppers or synchronized swimmers. sl Travis taunted: wow, from toyota corollas to advocating genocide in less than six posts... ...new record? On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the > herd. > > sl From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Mon May 5 00:38:40 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 03:38:40 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] Ecto-touring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: fewer musicians, fewer people breathing, you know, easy confusation there... either way, most venues around the bay could use some more foliage - if only for the sole reason of absorbing the general carbon footprint caused by such acts as bad improvisation and general windbaggery... On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:48 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Who's advocating genocide? I'm merely stating that it would be better for > the environment if fewer people were musicians. Instead of engaging in such > a non-eco-friendly activity as music, they can take up much more > eco-harmonious past-times such as being power sellers on ebay, segway polo > players, mystery shoppers or synchronized swimmers. > > sl > > Travis taunted: > > wow, from toyota corollas to advocating genocide in less than six posts... > > ...new record? > > > > > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > wrote: > > The excessive breathing alone ... Clearly another argument for thinning the > > herd. > > > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Gino.Robair at penton.com Mon May 5 15:43:23 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:43:23 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) Message-ID: Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that Pauline Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and really open some ears. Win-only and wma quality... From bradysharp at gmail.com Mon May 5 18:17:17 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:17:17 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and they all noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, which is about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). They looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the other side, enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to see their show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, and they flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large virtual orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars gyrating on each other. So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw scheduled to play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng down the road! Brady On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of > touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > > Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but > now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that > Pauline > Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) > will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and > really > open some ears. > > Win-only and wma quality... > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Mon May 5 18:31:01 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sounds interesting. I want to learn more about it. Playing outside the Bay Area with my own double bass seems like a thing of the past, so internet performances could be one way to over come it. Dresser was talking about various collaborations he is doing over the internet. On May 5, 2008, at 6:17 PM, Brady Sharp wrote: > A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and > they all > noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, > which is > about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). > They > looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the > other side, > enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to > see their > show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw > nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, > and they > flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large > virtual > orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars > gyrating > on each other. > > So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw > scheduled to > play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng > down the > road! > > > Brady > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino > wrote: > >> Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of >> touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: >> >> http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html >> >> Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time >> already, but >> now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that >> Pauline >> Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 >> performances) >> will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and >> really >> open some ears. >> >> Win-only and wma quality... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From jon_raskin at yahoo.com Mon May 5 19:33:25 2008 From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (jon_raskin at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 02:33:25 +0000 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <865932511-1210041182-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-582206935-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sounds like the 70's south of market Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Brady Sharp" Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:17:17 To:"Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and they all noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, which is about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). They looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the other side, enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to see their show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, and they flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large virtual orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars gyrating on each other. So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw scheduled to play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng down the road! Brady On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of > touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > > Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but > now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that > Pauline > Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) > will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and > really > open some ears. > > Win-only and wma quality... > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From djcypod at gmail.com Mon May 5 22:45:56 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:45:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: <865932511-1210041182-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-582206935-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <865932511-1210041182-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-582206935-@bxe013.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I little while back I played this festival in Romania over the net with these fellows: http://www.netpd.org/About getting plugged into second life, I think is roughly the same difficulty as setting up a winamp stream? I always thought it would be fun to ride bicycles to the albany bulb and have a renegade session out there among the detritus of past generations. for further away gigs there is always trains, that would probably be a little more eco-friendly than driving cross country in a hummer? summers around the corner, you could always take your violin, recorder, guitar, *, etc... on a little hike to listen to and be heard by nature. I second the idea of foliage for new music venues! Years before I ever got to play the luggage store, I covertly cultivated a few small shrubs on top of the galleries roof. * I think you need a special permit to take a bugle out there. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:33 PM, wrote: > Sounds like the 70's south of market > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Brady Sharp" > > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:17:17 > To:"Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) > > > A friend of mine did a regular second life gig with a trio, and they all > noted the unusually small number of people that turned out (like 3, which is > about average for some of the shows that I put on in real life!). They > looked at a map of the sim island and saw lots of people on the other side, > enough to overcrowd the server to keep people from getting in to see their > show. Then went over to the other side to see what it was, and saw > nothing. My friend produced a Huey helicopter, everyone jumped in, and they > flew upwards from where all of the activity was, and found a large virtual > orgy going on about 8000 feet in the sky with hundreds of avatars gyrating > on each other. > > So, instead of being shut out by a similar act with more draw scheduled to > play that same night, they were shut out by the sky orgy throng down the > road! > > > Brady > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > > > Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of > > touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > > > > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > > > > Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but > > now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. Maybe that'll mean that > > Pauline > > Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) > > will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and > > really > > open some ears. > > > > Win-only and wma quality... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From michaelz at zoka.com Tue May 6 09:45:23 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:45:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Carbon poop-print (was ecto-touring) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/5/08, Robair, Gino wrote: >Here's a link that also sports this month's buzz-concept of >touring-minus-carbon-floopprint: > >http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/canadians-plann.html > >Obviously, virtual concerts have been going on for some time already, but >now there's a race to make a (virtual) buck. The illustration looks suspiciously like Shoreline Ampthitheatre. You'd think the Canadians would have picked a better real-world basis for their venue (unless it's just because of the circus-like atmosphere of the structure. . .). >Maybe that'll mean that Pauline >Oliveros (who has her own Second Life band, besides her I2 performances) >will get a chance to play on a festival stage opposite Radiohead and really >open some ears. Speaking of Radiohead, you know about their "green tour" commitment this year, yes? >Win-only and wma quality... That figures. And with regard to Brady's Second Life story -- I noticed this in the virtual-vancouver.com FAQ: >Q. How do I get naked? >It's easy! Click the "Naked" button located bottom center on your >viewer. To put your clothes back on simply click the "Dress" button >located in the same area. Only VIP members can get naked. MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From ie at allwaysnorth.com Tue May 6 12:11:26 2008 From: ie at allwaysnorth.com (Cheryl Leonard) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 12:11:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] music and prayer collaboration with visiting German composer Message-ID: <39C04928-1BA0-11DD-B156-000A956C45F8@allwaysnorth.com> Hello all, My friend, German composer/improviser Anka Draugelates, is doing a residency right now at the Djerassi Resident Artists Program (down on the peninsula near Woodside). She wants to develop some pieces that combine traditional prayer with experimental (or whatever we are calling it these days) music. She's looking to find one or more people who would be interested in collaborating with her by praying out loud while she plays music. She is primarily a vocalist and violist. Any religion, any language is fine and it sounds like ideally she'd love to incorporate prayers from several different cultures. If anyone on this list is interested or knows other folks who might be, please email me and I will put you in touch with her. Anka is really fun and creative and she'd be great to work with. Plus you'd get to visit Djerassi which is a wild, beautiful place. Also, I don't think this would be a huge time commitment, as she is only here until the end of May. Cheryl ie at allwaysnorth.com From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Tue May 6 13:16:03 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:16:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Lookin' for a place to live Message-ID: <28ADCF45-6EFA-41E4-8A2F-B76F8F1B498C@matthewgoodheart.com> Hi folks- A quick non-musical note: I'm looking for a place to live starting some time this summer, and have always had the best luck word of mouth- Requirements: enough room for my piano, teach a few lessons a week , and easy access to UCB. . . If anyone knows/hears of anything, email me (off list) thanks mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From liz_abet at yahoo.com Wed May 7 09:24:50 2008 From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (lizabet) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] sublet Message-ID: <618830.49887.qm@web32803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hey blisters, anyone know of someone who's looking for a sublet in june? my room's open and i'd love to find a person to offset the rent a bit. hit me offlist puhlease if anyone comes to mind. thanks! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From Gino.Robair at penton.com Wed May 7 13:21:28 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 15:21:28 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Why yell obscenities at corporate rock bands on the radio when you can do it over the internet while they play... and for free! http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/deeprockdrive-a.html From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Wed May 7 14:38:32 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:38:32 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OR... We could step back, accept the fact that corporate affiliations aside, these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic inclinations and our time could be better spent focusing on ways of manifesting positive, constructive methods of bringing OUR art more to the forefront instead of being continually bitter that someone or something has more toys than we do. Lemons and lemonade and all that, you know? Also, yelling at corporate rock bands in the car - not a good idea in heavy traffic. Might I suggest some sort of communal mixtape exchange? On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Why yell obscenities at corporate rock bands on the radio when you can do it > over the internet while they play... and for free! > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/deeprockdrive-a.html > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From Gino.Robair at penton.com Wed May 7 16:57:55 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 18:57:55 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: It's not that some have more toys, Travis. It's the corporate music machine that torque's my jaw. It's about the brainwashing that popular music is created for. And thanks for the Zen reminder, but I make lemonade every day. However, I reserve the right to rail against the kind of music that is made by globe-encompasing corporations in order to trick our kids (and dumb-ass adults) into buying more stuff. Witness the Hannah Montana guitar, effects pedals, strings, etc. Sure if they worked properly and stayed in tune, it would be a great way to get young girls to learn guitar. Sadly, they're mostly cheap toys, and it can frustrate a would-be player. I have kids and have witnessed this. So, while I agree that there are thinking/feeling humans that front bands, I know for a fact as a music-industry participant that many of the artists on the scene do NOT actually play the instruments on the recordings we hear on the radio. Engineers and MIDI programmers rule the day for anything destined for top-40 status, and even lead vocals are subbed out to someone who can actually sing (or, if the artist really has to sing, the tracks are tuned and tweaked to at least sound plausible). Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that "we" have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) Earlier, Travis wrote: OR... We could step back, accept the fact that corporate affiliations aside, these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic inclinations and our time could be better spent focusing on ways of manifesting positive, constructive methods of bringing OUR art more to the forefront instead of being continually bitter that someone or something has more toys than we do. Lemons and lemonade and all that, you know? Also, yelling at corporate rock bands in the car - not a good idea in heavy traffic. Might I suggest some sort of communal mixtape exchange? On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:21 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Why yell obscenities at corporate rock bands on the radio when you can do it > over the internet while they play... and for free! > http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/05/deeprockdrive-a.html > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed May 7 17:24:24 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 17:24:24 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: I've suspected for years that Bjork is a furry ... sl Travis wrote: corporate affiliations aside, these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic inclinations From electric.tokyo at gmail.com Wed May 7 18:59:59 2008 From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 21:59:59 -0400 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ...or perhaps some sort of giant, mutated swan. But regardless, many thanks for raising some amazing points, Gino. I do have to admit that I sometimes feel that I've perhaps managed to tune out the brainwashing tactics of the general populous to a certain degree... perhaps a bit too well - which is undoubtedly a blessing and a curse, especially with regard to the age old saying "ignorance is bliss." And while it would be great to think that we, through our work and our art alone could very well make a difference in the grand scheme of corporate machinations, such, unless we happen to be the aforementioned furry, mutated swan or perhaps one of them Radioheads, might not have the capacity to stop the machine we're so adamantly raging against... a fact that I'm slowly becoming more and more aware of, especially in my current employ - namely being a substitute elementary school music teacher. It's actually quite sad - a good majority of the kids that I've had the pleasure of teaching honestly consider a high score on Guitar Hero to be comparable to that of competent musical training, let alone delving into the low-cost dribble sold at your typical retailers. I hate to say it, but the scene out there is pretty bad and the damage, unfortunately is horribly widespread... And while it may be a fools errand, I too am deeply concerned by the absolute evils of the current corpocracies, as well as the unmentionable horrors they've subjected on the younger generations of the world, all in the name of turning a quick buck. So I only wonder, if not for our own personal art and creativity, what all, or for that matter, what more or what else can we do to help subside the damage already done? In our collective case, I feel that in spite of my usual sarcasm and remarks uttered in the last couple of postings, we on this list may be in a better place than most to actually do something about this. I mean, seriously - we have the extreme luxury of being in close company with a great deal of folks who are not only legendary in our respective fields, but with the proper agenda, could be not just merely subversive in the eyes of the powers that be, but damn near INFLUENTIAL in steering a decent chunk of the corporate media purse-strings into doing something that is right and just as opposed to merely profit driven... and while it would be perhaps TOO optimistic to say that we and we alone could change the world, with the right agenda, outreaches and allegiances with other concerned groups, ya know, I think we very well could at least do SOMETHING... but again, this could just be my optimism rearing its ugly head yet again... But perhaps such optimism all around might not be a bad thing - at the end of my off-grid adventure in Colorado, I started doing a lot of reading on the personal accounts of various polar expeditions - extremely decent reading material, especially when you're waking up in a tent covered in snowdrift with a temperature that usually hovers somewhere around negative 13... Surprisingly enough, while each account differed, one of the constants of nearly every trek was the insistence on maintaining a constant positive attitude at all times. Granted, what we're up against is, erm, just a little different than taking a long walk on a glacier, I feel the same constant rings true for our situation. Regardless of our frustrations, simply expressing our anger and bitterness, while therapeutic, could also be seen as counterproductive - especially when we can instead use these frustrations to fuel creativity at the communal level and hell, if we're lucky, truly do something to counteract the sinister machinations of our damaged environs. Y'know, I think Yoda might have said something like this once... But anyhoo, just thought I'd weigh in - apologies for the diatribe to anyone whose just tuning in to this particular thread~ On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > I've suspected for years that Bjork is a furry ... > > sl > > Travis wrote: > corporate affiliations aside, > these critters are also thinking, feeling human beings with artistic > inclinations > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Thu May 8 01:12:37 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 01:12:37 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Gino Robair wrote: >>Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that "we" have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a lightning bug. I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list that are essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether it be "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our art (not to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are so musically/politically aware and active: How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages (proudly advertised in your email signatures)? I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where the resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking propagandists on the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because those are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If there are more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips about Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to join in on), has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as if somehow that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested in having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on My-Fucking Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic-Propaganda-Space.com). If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend request. Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs and... cash them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I know who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his Avengers CD's after he saw your page. You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest fascist pig bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? Or is it OK as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is active in Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many Green Party events, fundrasers, etc. He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because they have a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to get a web presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic imagination. I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm feeling angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated propaganda, there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the only "sane" people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because if Bush or Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug up my ass just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I don't watch TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy again: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews Poopagandaly yours, -MH From Gino.Robair at penton.com Thu May 8 09:37:52 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:37:52 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bug up his poopoganda Message-ID: Michael Henry wrote: <> You sure do! Wow -- that was a fun read over my morning scone. Right you are about the MySpace/Murdoch dilemma, although, frankly, he bought it -- he didn't start it. I don't think the service is inherently evil. Again, we could extend the Evil Empire thing to the telephone and cable wires we use for Web access, the cars we drive, the petrol we consume, etc. Even if I just sit here, I'm consuming elements in the air that could possibly have been in the lungs of someone even more sinister than Rupert. But I will say in MySpace's defense (not his) that I've been exposed to more interesting music in the last 2 years than in the last 10 through its portal, and have met many cool artists who I would never have been exposed to otherwise. Ignoring the concept of selecting "Friends" aside, it's been very useful for me, at least, in sending my sounds out of the Bay Area. Sometimes you have to dance with the devil. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu May 8 09:52:26 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 09:52:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bug up his poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ABD2322-F163-4A97-904D-86BAD05990B3@matthewgoodheart.com> On May 8, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Even if I just sit here, I'm consuming elements in the air that > could possibly have been in the lungs of someone even more sinister > than Rupert. This is why I stopped breathing regular air a long time ago: http://www.go2air.com/ As Gino points out, it's not just about health, but about morality. . . mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From bradysharp at gmail.com Thu May 8 10:28:33 2008 From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:28:33 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bug up his poopoganda In-Reply-To: <2ABD2322-F163-4A97-904D-86BAD05990B3@matthewgoodheart.com> References: <2ABD2322-F163-4A97-904D-86BAD05990B3@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: Hmmm...Bottled air... I guess health and the environment go hand in hand as far as air pollution goes, but bottled air seems like a dichotomy to me, as in how much does it impact the environment and hence foul the air at large, just to get a few cubits of good air into a pressurized container? Is it made of plastic? Does it use CFCs? Transportation environmental costs? Maybe Monsanto can buy them out, decrease the environmental hazard-to-benefit ratio, and produce Bigger, Better Air for Everyone! (ducks for cover!) Brady On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Matthew Goodheart < matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote: > On May 8, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Robair, Gino wrote: > > > Even if I just sit here, I'm consuming elements in the air that > > could possibly have been in the lungs of someone even more sinister > > than Rupert. > > > This is why I stopped breathing regular air a long time ago: > > http://www.go2air.com/ > > As Gino points out, it's not just about health, but about morality. . . > > mg > > > > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From michaelz at zoka.com Thu May 8 10:59:23 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:59:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/8/08, Michael Henry wrote: >And one more thing....I read earlier today that >Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had >better post some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy >again: > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa Rupert has another reason to be worried today: Microsoft is thinking about a buyout of Facebook, the chief competitor of MySpace. On the lighter side, take a listen to Harry Shearer biting the hand that feeds him (via The Simpsons on Fox TV), in this fictional promo for "Rupert - The Sitcom": or (scroll to 31:23) MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 8 11:05:00 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:05:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Uh-oh. It wasn't enough that music making is contributing to global warming. Now having a myspace page means that I'm supporting Rupert (fucking) Murdoch's homophobic, racist, fascist, corporate military-industrial complex? If someone gives me a ride, and they drive a volkswagen, does that mean I'm a nazi supporter? If you want to encourage global change, it has to be in the range of things that average people can and will do. People can change their lightbulbs, use more efficient cars and appliances, recycle, drastically reduce the amount of plastic bags/styrofoam they use, etc. That stuff is easy, and I think you could realistically get a sizeable chunk of Americans to change those habits. But here on the left that's not enough. When you tell people they have to drive 20 extra miles to the 'green' grocery, avoid anything that's made of plastic or precious metal, live in a cave, wear only hemp, etc, that's when most most reasonable people throw up their arms and go back to their SUV's, air conditioners and big macs. Sure you might get the leftest 0.5% of people to change, but that's not *really* making a big difference, is it? Matt On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Gino Robair wrote: > > > >>Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and > "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that > "we" > have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music > equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. > It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And > getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) > > > I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. > > Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a lightning bug. > > I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list that are > essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether it be > "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. > > You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil > corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our art (not > to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. > > Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are so > musically/politically aware and active: > > How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages (proudly > advertised in your email signatures)? > > I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where the > resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking propagandists on > the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just > cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns > My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because those > are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If there are > more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. > > I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips about > Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to join in on), > has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as if somehow > that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. > > Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous > anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested in > having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on My-Fucking > Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic-Propaganda-Space.com). > If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend request. > Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs and... cash > them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right to their > beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." > > > http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 > > Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I know > who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his Avengers CD's > after he saw your page. > > You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. > Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in > history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest fascist pig > bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? Or is it OK > as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? > > Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is active in > Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many Green Party > events, fundrasers, etc. > > He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because they have > a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to get a web > presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." > > I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic > imagination. > > I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm feeling > angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated propaganda, > there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the only "sane" > people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because if Bush or > Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. > > So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their > My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com > presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug up my ass > just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I don't watch > TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my > trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. > > And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is > getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more stuff to his > site in order to make him happy again: > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews > > Poopagandaly yours, > > -MH > From phil at philipgelb.com Thu May 8 11:16:25 2008 From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D3D647A-9DAB-4EA8-AB11-88D818917926@philipgelb.com> most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for them! it is not fun to realize how much of our lives is controlled by evil coporations and how much of our daily lives contributes to horrible things and in many ways, makes life a living hell for others and forget about its impact on future generations. yeah, i have myspace sites and i hate contributing to murdoch but as Gino pointed out, i have benefited greatly from being on myspace thanks to the connections made and music i have heard. A radical change in lifestyle is necessary if we care about having any planet decades from now, let alone centuries. If that is inconvenient for some, well, not much choice but to deal with it. If we do not change things that is simply a way of telling others, "fuck you, i do not care if my life is making yours difficult" :) few americans are willing to give up their gas, plastic and meat even when they become educated about what is going on. ok, enough for my rant :) phil Philip Gelb vegetarian chef shakuhachi player, teacher phil at philipgelb.com http://philipgelb.com http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood http://myspace.com/philipgelb On May 8, 2008, at 11:05 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Uh-oh. It wasn't enough that music making is contributing to global > warming. > Now having a myspace page means that I'm supporting Rupert (fucking) > Murdoch's homophobic, racist, fascist, corporate military-industrial > complex? > > If someone gives me a ride, and they drive a volkswagen, does that > mean I'm > a nazi supporter? > > If you want to encourage global change, it has to be in the range > of things > that average people can and will do. People can change their > lightbulbs, use > more efficient cars and appliances, recycle, drastically reduce the > amount > of plastic bags/styrofoam they use, etc. That stuff is easy, and I > think you > could realistically get a sizeable chunk of Americans to change those > habits. > > But here on the left that's not enough. When you tell people they > have to > drive 20 extra miles to the 'green' grocery, avoid anything that's > made of > plastic or precious metal, live in a cave, wear only hemp, etc, > that's when > most most reasonable people throw up their arms and go back to > their SUV's, > air conditioners and big macs. Sure you might get the leftest 0.5% > of people > to change, but that's not *really* making a big difference, is it? > > Matt > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Michael Henry > > wrote: > >> >> Gino Robair wrote: >> >> >>>> Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and >> "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact >> that >> "we" >> have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to >> the music >> equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as >> an artist. >> It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, >> mister. And >> getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) >> >> >> I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. >> >> Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a >> lightning bug. >> >> I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list >> that are >> essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether >> it be >> "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. >> >> You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil >> corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our >> art (not >> to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. >> >> Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who >> are so >> musically/politically aware and active: >> >> How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages >> (proudly >> advertised in your email signatures)? >> >> I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site >> where the >> resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking >> propagandists on >> the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just >> cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns >> My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? >> Because those >> are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If >> there are >> more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. >> >> I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips >> about >> Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to >> join in on), >> has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as >> if somehow >> that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. >> >> Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous >> anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not >> interested in >> having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on >> My-Fucking >> Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic- >> Propaganda-Space.com). >> If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend >> request. >> Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs >> and... cash >> them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right >> to their >> beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." >> >> >> http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm? >> fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 >> >> Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think >> I know >> who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his >> Avengers CD's >> after he saw your page. >> >> You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. >> Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist >> pigs in >> history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest >> fascist pig >> bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? >> Or is it OK >> as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? >> >> Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is >> active in >> Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many >> Green Party >> events, fundrasers, etc. >> >> He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because >> they have >> a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to >> get a web >> presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." >> >> I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic >> imagination. >> >> I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm >> feeling >> angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated >> propaganda, >> there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the >> only "sane" >> people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because >> if Bush or >> Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. >> >> So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their >> My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com >> presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug >> up my ass >> just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I >> don't watch >> TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my >> trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. >> >> And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking- >> Murdoch is >> getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more >> stuff to his >> site in order to make him happy again: >> >> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa? >> gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews >> >> Poopagandaly yours, >> >> -MH >> > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From weaselw at juno.com Thu May 8 11:24:28 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:24:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being complacent. ww On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb writes: > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > them! From polly.moller at gmail.com Thu May 8 11:27:12 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:27:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40805081127w532f0facpb374c3a5d651c242@mail.gmail.com> Americans don't have any ideology. We're just RIGHT. ;) P. On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:24 AM, weasel walter wrote: > come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being > complacent. > > ww > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb > writes: > > > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > > them! > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.pollymoller.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 8 11:27:47 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 11:27:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20080508.112435.7292.36.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: Right! Well, with that understanding, we can either create solutions that can be worked into a complacent American lifestyle, or we can continue to get upset that Americans aren't making rapid sudden changes to their habits. Ok, this is way off topic, so that's the last I'll say on the subject. Matt On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:24 AM, weasel walter wrote: > come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being > complacent. > > ww > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb > writes: > > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > > them! > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 11:50:14 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 11:50:14 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: You're giving Americans too much special-snowflake status ... It's part of the human condition ... In different countries, people are complacent about different things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. sl Weasel wrote: come on! this is what makes us american! we have the privilege of being complacent. ww On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:16:25 -0700 Philip Gelb writes: > most americans only want to change things when it is convenient for > them! From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 12:02:44 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:02:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: The other option is increased government regulation - forcing people to change - I'm still traumatized by all the recent regulations about what you can and can't take on an airplane. I haven't been on an airpline since 2000. But it is an example of the American government forcing people to change their habits. Personally, I think the green/eco-movement is going to be the next bubble economy, replacing the real estate bubble, which replaced the dot-com bubble. I'm "looking forward" to seeing corporations and governments funding, what will be in hindsight, ludicrous ideas and projects that are based in bad science or are obviously ineffective. sl Matt suggested: Right! Well, with that understanding, we can either create solutions that can be worked into a complacent American lifestyle, or we can continue to get upset that Americans aren't making rapid sudden changes to their habits. From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu May 8 12:13:00 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:13:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm a little late to the discussion, and not much time to participate - but Mr. Henry's rant is well taken. Some thoughts: 1) I sort of view artists as parasites on the corporate structure - Murdoch will pay for my site, then great. I don't think he's getting much benefit from my page, certainly its out of proportion from the benefit I get from it. To quote Lenin, "The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." 2) Doesn't the revenue come from ads? Does anyone actually pay attention to internet ads? I know I don't even read them, I couldn't even tell you what ads are on the sites I look at; to me, at least, internet advertising is a joke. . . my guess is that the few folks who pay any attention to what I'm doing aren't too influenced by them either. 3) Because of #2, my guess is that many of these places will collapse at some point, since the revenue generated by the ads will not support the required profit margin. Then it will probably all go away, replaced by something with much more corporate control over content and forcing people to view the ads in a more controlled manner - maybe the 2 (or 3 or 4) tier internet thing.  Right now, I feel like we're in a little blip where things are getting figured out, and that type of thing historically means there's some brief breathing room for weirdos like me and y'all. 4) The question is not whether you "sell out" to Murdoch or whomever, it's how you pitch your battles. Isolation doesn't always seem so effective to me either - that was what led to my decision to do "myspace" at least. I could opt out of the system I think also helps propagate surface listening; to quote the Unabomber: "Cheap, intemperate propaganda sometimes achieves impressive short-term goals, but it will be more advantageous in the long run to keep the loyalty of a small number of intelligently committed people." Although: 5) I'm not of the opinion that mere exposure to alternative art changes anything at all - rather it affects those that seek to be affected by it: to quote Jesus: "He who has ears, let him hear." Teaching, advocating, giving money to micro-loan programs in 3rd world countries, these have a much greater effect than any work of art. That said, works of prophetic art are important, but that's another discussion. > In different countries, people are complacent about different > things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to > kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. Don't forget murdering your sister because she had sex! mg On May 8, 2008, at 1:12 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Gino Robair wrote: > > >>> Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and > "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact > that "we" > have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the > music > equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an > artist. > It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, > mister. And > getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) > > > I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. > > Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a > lightning bug. > > I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list > that are essentially about some sort political-musical connection, > whether it be "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. > > You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil > corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our > art (not to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. > > Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are > so musically/politically aware and active: > > How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages > (proudly advertised in your email signatures)? > > I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where > the resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking > propagandists on the fucking planet. I really would really like to > know.....is it just cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns My- > Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because > those are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. > If there are more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like > to hear them. > > I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips > about Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy > to join in on), has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on > MySpace" as if somehow that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. > > Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous > anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested > in having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on > My-Fucking Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic- > Propaganda-Space.com). If you consider yourself one of these please > DO NOT send a friend request. Also anyone who voted for Bush can > just take their Avengers CDs and... cash them in at the used record > store, right now. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and everyone > has a right to choose their friends." > > http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 > > Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I > know who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his > Avengers CD's after he saw your page. > > You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. Rupert- > Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in > history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest > fascist pig bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site > he owns? Or is it OK as long as the fascist pig gives you some of > his gruel in return? > > Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is > active in Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at > many Green Party events, fundrasers, etc. > > He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because > they have a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really > need to get a web presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be > obligatory." > > I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your > artistic imagination. > > I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm > feeling angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and > associated propaganda, there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or > if it is that the only "sane" people left are the ones that society > labels as "insane." Because if Bush or Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm > definitely not. > > So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their My- > Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com > presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug > up my ass just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with > and I don't watch TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and > despite my age, my trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a > nanosecond. > > And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking- > Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had better post > some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy again: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews > > Poopagandaly yours, > > -MH > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu May 8 12:36:55 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:36:55 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5A7EFFF7-FC5C-40D6-A325-9AE173E3E470@balancepointacoustics.com> The bulk of the change has to come from big industries and even governments. Most small changes we personally can make are only about making ourselves feel smug or worse: buying into one of the many scams to make a buck with the the words "green" or "eco" in front of it. We need to keep in mind there is a pile of money to be made on both sides of the issue and both sides have a complex agenda to push. Living in western society is bad for the environment and using electricity is one of the worst things you can do for it. Also, myspace is not evil. It is a good service that makes them a pile of money by helping others. Much like an ipod, an artwork or piece of music a myspace page is only as good or bad as it's content. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From gcremaschi at hotmail.com Thu May 8 12:57:42 2008 From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:57:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> In different countries, people are complacent about different >> things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to >> kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. Hmm - I guess those are the choices, huh? There really isn't anything in the middle? -George _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008 From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu May 8 13:03:25 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 13:03:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <5A7EFFF7-FC5C-40D6-A325-9AE173E3E470@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <5A7EFFF7-FC5C-40D6-A325-9AE173E3E470@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: On May 8, 2008, at 12:36 PM, Damon Smith wrote: > The bulk of the change has to come from big industries and even > governments. Most small changes we personally can make are only about > making ourselves feel smug or worse: buying into one of the many > scams to make a buck with the the words "green" or "eco" in front of > it. This makes sense in general, but there are a few personal changes that, when understood in their proper place, are not so bad. I read up a bit on the "terrapass" phenominon- the carbon offsets one can buy for their cars. It was a pretty detailed article by some climate scientists (which as far as I could tell were not paid by any industry), who analyzed the whole thing and ultimately concluded that if you buy one from a group that produces electricity (solar/wind) and then sells it back to the grid, it's not a bad stop-gap measure while we press for more concrete systemic measures. That is, understanding that it wouldn't work if every car in America suddenly started to do it, that it's NOT a solution, and that companies which sell "tree planting" as a carbon offset are bogus. I haven't looked into it lately, maybe others have seen stuff that say it's all completely bogus? mg Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 13:13:29 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:13:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Well of course there are things in the middle ... I was just trying to argue that complacency isn't unique to Americans, and honestly, there are far worse things to be complacent about. However, I think people are generally prone to complacency, if they can. I'm sure Damon can give examples from his experience with the US Postal Service. sl George C chided: >> In different countries, people are complacent about different >> things, we get fast food and SUV's, in other countries they get to >> kill people of unfashionable tribes with impunity. Hmm - I guess those are the choices, huh? There really isn't anything in the middle? -George From aliciabyer at gmail.com Thu May 8 13:24:09 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 13:24:09 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48236169.3030208@gmail.com> Somebody needs to make an open-source version of myspace with no ads, or just ads for 'good' things that can help run the project. Why hasn't it been done yet? Doesn't look like the profile-connected-to-profile thing is too complicated to me.. maybe I just don't know. But open-source stuff seems to catch on, and with the current "I want to wash my hands of American guilt" trend, it seems like a lot of myspace/facebookers actually would switch to an open-source project. Personally, I was pretty shocked when it seemed like 75% of people under 30 seemed to jump onto myspace in a single bound... -alicia Michael Henry wrote: > Gino Robair wrote: > > > >>> Like all of us on the list, I will continue being "positive" and >>> > "constructive" by creating music-sound-art. However, it's the fact that "we" > have to educate the masses that there are sonic alternatives to the music > equivalent of fast food that makes "us" work harder than ever as an artist. > It's certainly not bitterness. Just trying to save the planet, mister. And > getting angry is somewhat unavoidable during times like these... :-) > > > I hear you Gino. I'm angry too. > > Warning.....I have a bug up my ass about this....and it is a lightning bug. > > I've noticed a significant amount of postings lately on this list that are essentially about some sort political-musical connection, whether it be "ecto (sic..."plasmic?") touring" or some other subject. > > You know...like that need to "educate the masses" about the "evil corporate" influences that are degrading our culture, killing our art (not to mention lots of people and wildlife), and so on. > > Well, here is a question I would like to pose, to you folks who are so musically/politically aware and active: > > How come so many of you have My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space pages (proudly advertised in your email signatures)? > > I mean, please explain to me why you put your art up on a site where the resulting ad revenue enriches one of the most evil fucking propagandists on the fucking planet. I really would really like to know.....is it just cluelessness, i.e you are unaware of who owns My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Space.com? Or do you just not care? Because those are the only possible answers to my question that I can see. If there are more answers that I am unaware of, I'd certainly like to hear them. > > I mean, even the Wired piece Gino forwarded, which snidely quips about Pepsi's corporate sponsorship of this event (which I'm happy to join in on), has links at the bottom "for previewing the bands on MySpace" as if somehow that is not the same. Excuse me while I puke. > > Just take for example, one of San Francisco's own, one of the famous anarcho-punk "politically aware" bands....I quote: " not interested in having any racist, sexist, fascist or homophobic friends (here on My-Fucking Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Racist-Sexist-Fascist-Homophobic-Propaganda-Space.com). If you consider yourself one of these please DO NOT send a friend request. Also anyone who voted for Bush can just take their Avengers CDs and... cash them in at the used record store, right now. Everyone has a right to their beliefs and everyone has a right to choose their friends." > > http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=3127605 > > Well, Penelope and the Avengers. I'm sorry to say this but I think I know who Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch voted for. I hope he burned his Avengers CD's after he saw your page. > > You say, "We Are Not Fascist Pigs"......Oh, puhleeese. Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is certainly one of the biggest fascist pigs in history. So why do you want to help enrich one of the biggest fascist pig bastards on the planet by having a presence on the site he owns? Or is it OK as long as the fascist pig gives you some of his gruel in return? > > Another example....A friend of mine recently contacted me. He is active in Green Party politics, in Colorado. His band has played at many Green Party events, fundrasers, etc. > > He calls me up to pick my brain about marketing his band, because they have a new CD in the can and he says to me, "Well, we really need to get a web presence....so I suppose a Myspace page would be obligatory." > > I'll spare you the rest of the conversation. Please use your artistic imagination. > > I'm really sorry to bring this up in such an angry manner. But I'm feeling angry tonight. After so many years of bush-shit and associated propaganda, there are days when I wonder if I am sane, or if it is that the only "sane" people left are the ones that society labels as "insane." Because if Bush or Rupert Murdoch is sane, I'm definitely not. > > So I'd really like someone here to justify or explain to me their My-Fucking-Rupert-Murdoch-Fox-Nooze-Evil-Corporate-Bastard-Space.com presence. Please, oh please enlighten me because the lightning bug up my ass just flew away, and I have no more light left to read with and I don't watch TV. I carry a TV-B-Gone with me wherever I go, and despite my age, my trigger finger has a reflex time of less than a nanosecond. > > And one more thing....I read earlier today that Rupert-Fucking-Murdoch is getting worried. So someone out there had better post some more stuff to his site in order to make him happy again: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/may/07/rupertmurdoch.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews > > Poopagandaly yours, > > -MH > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From jfheule at gmail.com Thu May 8 14:14:29 2008 From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 14:14:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda In-Reply-To: <48236169.3030208@gmail.com> References: <48236169.3030208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9c5cfa860805081414x106c9164ibb217ead493dd615@mail.gmail.com> http://virb.com/ but not enough people know it about it or use it, so i don't bother myspace is a pretty shitty thing, from the nefarious ideology of its owner to the terrible non-functioning interface, but i endure these things because i think i benefit a lot from participating in it. choosing my battles. kind of like how touring in a corolla is better than touring in a huge van, but it's still burning up around 300 gallons of gas in 3 weeks. jacob On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:24 PM, Alicia Byer wrote: > Somebody needs to make an open-source version of myspace with no ads, or > just ads for 'good' things that can help run the project. Why hasn't it > been done yet? Doesn't look like the profile-connected-to-profile thing > is too complicated to me.. maybe I just don't know. -- http://heule.us & http://myspace.com/jacobfelix http://ettrick.org & http://myspace.com/ettrick From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Thu May 8 15:21:38 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:21:38 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gino Robair wrote: <> >>You sure do! Wow -- that was a fun read over my morning scone. Right you are >>about the MySpace/Murdoch dilemma, although, frankly, he bought it -- he >>didn't start it. I don't think the service is inherently evil. Yes, I do indeed have a bug up there. Still. But I'm glad you enjoyed my bug with your scone ;-) I fail to see what difference if makes that Murdoch didn't start MySpace. The fact is that he owns it now, and the revenue (which BTW, is quite significant...the Guardian piece says that that division of his evil empire netted him $1 billion over the past year...so indeed Matthew, people are clicking on those banner ads), goes to his pockets and directly or not, it supports the propaganda that his media empire spews. It's not just the question of having a presence there that bothers me -- it's more the hypocrisy of the many so-called left-leaning folks (such as The Avengers) that really gets that bug up my ass. Touting your anti-establishment, anti-corporate, anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-capitalist, anti-whatever credentials while you are driving money right into the pockets of the poster child for all that you are against. If the Avengers, or whoever said that they just don't give a shit about politics, that would be one thing. But to claim that you do care and are against fascism in all of its forms and then support such a fascist with your art? (I'm particularly still picking on the Avengers here, not you Gino, as they go out of their way to wear their anti-establishment moniker on their shirt-sleeves ) Well....that in my book amounts to either stupidity (cluelessness) or hypocrisy. Take your pick. I respectively disagree with you on the issue of the inherent evilness. If Hitler came back from the grave and bought MySpace would you still have page there? Besides, I think the MySpace's 15 minutes is up (as the Guardian piece seems to suggest). Seems like a pretty lame place to me whenever I do go there -- which admittedly is not very often, since I avoid it like the plague. I usually feel like I need to wash my hands after visiting to remove the fecal matter that has come through my internet's tubes. Politics aside, with so many other options available, I fail to see why someone would want to have a page on MySpace, trying to scream in the wind amongst the other gazillions of lemmings there that are screaming in the wind (which is not to say I have anything against screaming). -MH P.S. I want to be clear that I'm not picking on any particular folks here. I just wanted to know what reasoning you MySpacers could offer to justify your presence there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear any convincing reasons. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu May 8 15:40:19 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:40:19 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael Henry was like: > P.S. I want to be clear that I'm not picking on any particular folks here. > I just wanted to know what reasoning you MySpacers could offer to justify > your presence there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear any convincing > reasons. As someone who works at a music series, I'm actually pretty glad myspace is there, because it allows musicians and bands to have a rudimentary 'website' and 'demo tape' online. That's pretty useful to me. Much better than trying to solicit a bio from musicians, and then determine from that whether they're fit for the music series. Sure, sites other than myspace can do the same thing, so if all the tools/features/connection speeds are there I don't see a reason why myspace is particularly better. However, you could argue that all the folks on myspace are putting out fewer demo cd-r's - less pollution. Matt From Gino.Robair at penton.com Thu May 8 15:41:27 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 17:41:27 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Michael wrote: <> Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. <> Wire says so too. But tell that to the millions that sign up every day overseas! For those of us who want to network with people in other countries, MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about trendiness. <> To the visitor, sure. But again, I've met some really great people there, have gotten gigs through it, have given people gigs through it, etc. <> The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among many. My wind-screaming has been pretty successful when you look at cash outlay ($0) against the results (far greater than $0). And, luckily, I've made some real friends through it. Friendships that will outlive Murdoch's ownership of MySpace (and probably his life). My daughters favorite quote this week: "Join the Dark Side: we have cookies!" From miltnerunit at gmail.com Thu May 8 15:59:29 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 15:59:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. I for one am getting pretty tired of chasing today's 'myspace' or 'facebook' or whatever, and I am betting that other musical weirdos worldwide feel the same. Is switching to some other community space really worth the effort? it better be a whole LOT better than myspace music to go to the trouble of doing that. For me, the less time I spend on web stuff and the more on making music, the better...this is why personal websites are a little less popular. why re-invent the wheel? and why have to maintain more than one site? i just want people to have somewhere to go if they need to look me up. okay, done. myspace music gets a solid B+ for ease of use by impatient people like myself. So i'm done with it, and i can get back to actual music-making, which is the whole reason my myspace music page is there in the first place. Myspace is SO last week...it's owned by Rupert and it's full of ads....okay well, maybe it's pessimistic, but i see a pattern here, and I feel it's just a matter of time before the latest and coolest global community space -- maybe it's ad free, maybe the servers are powered by algae, whatever -- will get big, and they will have to feed the thing, and then the company mentality changes, and ads go up there, and so on and so on... k On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Michael wrote: > < If > Hitler came back from the grave and bought MySpace would you still have > page > there?>> > > Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. > > > < seems to suggest).>> > > Wire says so too. But tell that to the millions that sign up every day > overseas! For those of us who want to network with people in other > countries, MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about > trendiness. > > <> > > To the visitor, sure. But again, I've met some really great people there, > have gotten gigs through it, have given people gigs through it, etc. > > > < someone would want to have a page on MySpace, trying to scream in the wind > amongst the other gazillions of lemmings there that are screaming in the > wind (which is not to say I have anything against screaming).>> > > The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. > The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. > > But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's > just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among > many. > My wind-screaming has been pretty successful when you look at cash outlay > ($0) against the results (far greater than $0). And, luckily, I've made > some > real friends through it. Friendships that will outlive Murdoch's ownership > of MySpace (and probably his life). > > My daughters favorite quote this week: "Join the Dark Side: we have > cookies!" > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.myspace.com/miltnerunit From weaselw at juno.com Thu May 8 16:00:21 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:00:21 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) Message-ID: <20080508.160043.7292.62.weaselw@juno.com> on the eco-friendly tip, if anybody has spare bubble mailers of any and all sizes (the ones with bubble wrap inside, NOT the recyled shredded paper material), i would be more than glad to take them off your hands and recycle them. i go through a ton of these doing mail order and i can use as few or as many as anybody wants to give me. please let me know. thanks, ww Weasel Walter http://nowave.pair.com From lx.rudis at gmail.com Thu May 8 16:10:11 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 16:10:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7272233a0805081610t77a577afu4318ab592c413121@mail.gmail.com> gino: > But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's > just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among > many. > agreed. but there are lots of ways to use myspace - i'm still getting friend requests even though i've yanked all my content down from there. i recently began working with one of those Balkan State web upstarts which seek to steal myspace's thunder - it just makes sense that i do so, since most of the types i hang with are already pretty tired of myspace. i feel there's a bit of a neuskool cachet to dissing myspace - increasingly i get emails from within it which state "if you want to continue talking with me, here's my email address...". end result is that i continue my conversations and collaborations without myspace mediating me, but i keep a minimal presence there so that i'm easily pinged. and i'm having _much more fun_ at other URLs. ...i mean, this stuff is about discovery and experimentation, right? [don't answer that, i'm in too good a mood right now] gino's kid said: > cookies!" again, i agree, both with the humor and sentiment. and i'd like mine to have tasty chocolate bits in them, please. :D > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From aliciabyer at gmail.com Thu May 8 19:21:26 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 19:21:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> Yeah, I don't use myspace either for the same reasons. I basically quit after Murdoch bought it, but I still kinda wish we could make use of the internet for music in some more significant way than individual websites. The geeky people that developed the internet intentionally kept it decentralized to keep it out of the hands of the authorities. So, you can still access every page on the internet with equal ease (unless you live in those countries that have national firewalls?), which is pretty much unheard of in the history of information access. I've always found this kinda interesting and to have a lot of potential, but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting endless videos of their retarded cats. -alicia kristin miltner wrote: >>> The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. >>> > > I for one am getting pretty tired of chasing today's 'myspace' or 'facebook' > or whatever, and I am betting that other musical weirdos worldwide feel the > same. Is switching to some other community space really worth the effort? it > better be a whole LOT better than myspace music to go to the trouble of > doing that. For me, the less time I spend on web stuff and the more on > making music, the better...this is why personal websites are a little less > popular. why re-invent the wheel? and why have to maintain more than one > site? i just want people to have somewhere to go if they need to look me up. > okay, done. > > myspace music gets a solid B+ for ease of use by impatient people like > myself. So i'm done with it, and i can get back to actual music-making, > which is the whole reason my myspace music page is there in the first place. > > > > Myspace is SO last week...it's owned by Rupert and it's full of ads....okay > well, maybe it's pessimistic, but i see a pattern here, and I feel it's just > a matter of time before the latest and coolest global community space -- > maybe it's ad free, maybe the servers are powered by algae, whatever -- will > get big, and they will have to feed the thing, and then the company > mentality changes, and ads go up there, and so on and so on... > > > k > > > > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > > >> Michael wrote: >> <> If >> Hitler came back from the grave and bought MySpace would you still have >> page >> there?>> >> >> Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. >> >> >> <> seems to suggest).>> >> >> Wire says so too. But tell that to the millions that sign up every day >> overseas! For those of us who want to network with people in other >> countries, MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about >> trendiness. >> >> <> >> >> To the visitor, sure. But again, I've met some really great people there, >> have gotten gigs through it, have given people gigs through it, etc. >> >> >> <> someone would want to have a page on MySpace, trying to scream in the wind >> amongst the other gazillions of lemmings there that are screaming in the >> wind (which is not to say I have anything against screaming).>> >> >> The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. >> The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. >> >> But I'm not here to sell MySpace to anyone --- use it or ignore it. It's >> just a convenient way for me to get the word out about my stuff, among >> many. >> My wind-screaming has been pretty successful when you look at cash outlay >> ($0) against the results (far greater than $0). And, luckily, I've made >> some >> real friends through it. Friendships that will outlive Murdoch's ownership >> of MySpace (and probably his life). >> >> My daughters favorite quote this week: "Join the Dark Side: we have >> cookies!" >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> > > > > From olorin at lmi.net Thu May 8 21:56:51 2008 From: olorin at lmi.net (olorin at lmi.net) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 21:56:51 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] myspace poop Message-ID: <20080508215651.1b87b65ygw4ks84k@webmail.lmi.net> wow - interesting discussion here. let me examine the myspace/fascism dilemma for a moment. the issue here is basically one of broadcasting. people are on myspace not only because it's convenient to have a web presence there but because lots of other people are on the website who will see your profile and perhaps buy your stuff or give you gigs. some of the music is awesome, much of it is total crap, but everyone is there because it's THE thing to do. so how do you wean folks off of a fascist-owned music site which is awfully convenient for folks to use (though slow as molasses) and serves a lot more like a tool to subvert the dominant paradigm than specifically a way for RM to rake in more $$? answer - it's not going to be easy. there are alternatives - try www.virb.com, nice looking, skinnable (i think) and fast response but practically nobody knows about them at the moment. it could work as a myspace replacement functionally speaking, but it's missing all the manpower - all the artists checking things out hoping to be checked out - which unfortunately is the best reason to stay on myspace for now - at least until, lemming like, everybody abandons ship and goes to the next 'cool' site that's the buzzword of the month. i agree, an open source myspace would be something more politically in line and it might happen in the not-too-distant future. right now billions of people are benefitting from open source databases and software being used constantly for free on millions of websites so it's certainly possible. one called Mugshot has been up for a few years at this point www.mugshot.org. i don't think it's specifically music related, more of an aggregator for coordinating information between multiple existing sites like myspace, facebook, etc. it is open source however. anyway, my .02 at this point. scott From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu May 8 22:48:39 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 22:48:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Wait, are the cats retarded or are the videos retarded, and the cats "normal"? Besides the psycho singing cat video (posted a few months ago), all the cat videos I've seen have cats that seem normal. sl Alicia wrote: but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting endless videos of their retarded cats. From aliciabyer at gmail.com Thu May 8 22:58:11 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 22:58:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4823E7F3.7080400@gmail.com> I dunno, I've seen lots of crazy cats. I was gonna put 'cats on drugs' but that's kind of messed up. maybe I just click on the messed up stuff. -alicia Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > Wait, are the cats retarded or are the videos retarded, and the cats > "normal"? Besides the psycho singing cat video (posted a few months ago), > all the cat videos I've seen have cats that seem normal. > > sl > > Alicia wrote: > but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting > endless videos of their retarded cats. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 00:32:42 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 00:32:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) Message-ID: Gino wrote (re: my buggy-ass Hitler analogy): >>Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. I quote from your previous message "Sometimes you have to dance with the devil." So please correct me if I am misinterpreting you.....does that mean that you wouldn't mind dancing with Hitler (as long as he provided free hosting services for you)? I didn't expect you (or anyone) to take any "bait" because I am not baiting any hooks. Rupert may not be in the same league as Hitler. But that doesn't necessarily imply that his league is minor. >>MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about trendiness. Neither am I. "Trendiness" is a good word to employe here. It describes the secondary reason I (try to) avoid even glancing at someone's MySpace page (the first being that any eyeballs there support Murdoch's fascist empire, either directly or indirectly) >>The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. Really? I would hasten to disagree here. Why even bother with any such any corporate- blood-sucking entity? Punk was (supposedly) about DIY. Some new music too. "Balkanized"? So what? I really regret to inform you of this, but the "new music community" (however you define it) is already Balkanized (capital "B"). And it has been for some time now. Really, since the 50's, 60's or perhaps even earlier. Maybe it has always been that way. Just take someone....let's say, the ever-so-pithy Kyle Gann for example, with his endless rantings on the the whole uptown vs. downtown composers (or just plain posers) tirade (and boy, is that tired.....). Talk about your "Balkanization.'.....(I'm imagining The Who, "Talking bout my Balkination") Look, I'm all for "musical weirdos worldwide" (MWW - great name for a group, thank you), but in my view there is nothing weird about MySpace other than the mystifying weirdness of why anyone would want to go there and stare at puke-inducing banner adds while spending innumerable hours sorting through tons of lame-ass chaff in order to find the wheat, all while Rupert Murdoch watches his bank account balance skyrocket as he sips a glass of fine wine (Chateau Petrus no doubt at $28,550 a bottle) poured by a young boy wearing a toga. Sorry, but this is exaclty what is "too much for my tastes." Even if your daughter does offer me the most scrumptiously delicious cookies that were ever baked. ;-) I'll just sum up by saying that most of the pro-MySpace arguments about this issue have seemed to amount to "well, yeah I know he's a fascist, but...." Excuses masquerading as reasons. In other words, it's free, it's easy, etc. so I can overlook the rest. I have a problem with that. But then that's just me. Thanks for the honest response to the question I posed, but I think I'll continue to be vigilant in my efforts to stay away from My-fucking-Rupert Murdoch-space.com. Even if your daughter make her incredibly delightful cookies from the "Dark Side" available there. BTW, are those cookies vegan? -MH From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri May 9 00:52:46 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 00:52:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda Message-ID: Damon Smith wrote: >> It (MySpace) is a good service that makes them a pile of money by helping others. Really. By "them" do you mean Rupert Murdoch's $1 billion pile-of-money in profit? Aiding the diseemination of Fox nooze propaganda is a "good service"? Who these "others" being helped? That is, other than Murdoch and his shareholders? Slay me. -MH From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri May 9 03:01:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 03:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] More anti-carbon floop-print poopoganda (and my bug) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <679599.83142.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Michael Henry thus spake: > P.S. I want to be clear that I'm not picking on any particular folks here. > I just wanted to know what reasoning you MySpacers could offer to justify > your presence there. I'm sorry, but I have yet to hear any convincing > reasons. PG: Well, I wasn't going to join this discussion. It started out a bit too wavy gravy for me. I mean, really.... But since I have a few MySpace pages, I'll chime in. Along with Matthew's points, I'll echo that I don't pay for my MS pages. I also don't read the ads, or support those companies that place ads there. Whenever I do glance at them, they look absolutely ridiculous. I doubt I'll be signing up on Sugar Daddy anytime soon... MS has allowed me to connect with a lot of musicians I would not have discovered otherwise. I mean LOTS. Since it's also a search engine, you can find lots of links to interests. I wanted to check out more Japanese Noise bands and breakcore bands, so I searched on MS and founds quite a few interesting groups. It's a research tool that's easy to use.... A publisher "met" me through a friend's MS page who is a poet. She recommended he read some of my work. Consequently, he published some of my poems. That wouldn't have happened if I wasn't there. I also have met quite a few genuinely nice people that I have developed friendships with...oh yeah, the "Friend" thing actually works sometimes! Yes, there are a lot of idiots out there, but you take the same chance walking out your front door. Gino's comment on isolation seems apt here. I have also seen people at my shows that I didn't know. I asked them how they found out about the show. They said, (and I quote...): "I read your MySpace bulletin". Well, well, what do you know about that? I have set up gigs in Europe, Los Angeles and the east coast by connecting with venues and musicians on MS. Gino and I have both arranged gigs in Paris through David Fenech, who we met on MS. To acheive existential wholeness, you have to be aware that all actions are the result of choice. I choose to use MS for the reasons stated above. I choose to promote my music there. It's not the only way I promote my music. I'm surely not conflicted about it. So Rupert Murdoch is making money. Given the current system, he has the right to do that. As I explore existentialism more and more, I find that I can no longer judge others by their actions. I ask for complete freedom to be who I am and do what I do. If I ask for that freedom, does it not make sense that I have to allow every other human being out there the same freedom? This takes a lot of letting go. Otherwise, how could I live in a world with that lying,ignorant murderous son of a bitch that lives in the white house? I have to let go of the expectation that I'm going to change him. He lives in his own private Idaho and appears to be unavailable for direct discussion or artistic exchange. Yes, people break laws and do horrible things. I can't change that by removing myself from MySpace or by buying less gasoline. The only way I can live in this crazy world and not go insane is to make music. I believe that in some small way I am raising consciousness by doing what I do. I hope that is not a pretentious statement. I am totally humble when it comes to music and my abilities. I do not pretend to be a "master" of music - it's impossible to master music, it's too broad, too vast, too complex. But I can try to contribute to the world of artistic expression by playing my horn and exploring it again and again and trying to find new ways to coax some beauty from it. If I'm lucky, maybe one person will learn to be a better listener due to something I may have created, or have been a part of. That's good enough for me. Maybe one of my students will grow up and embrace a life of artistic expression (poor sap!). Who knows. it's a crap shoot. But I like the odds and I like the game. I would much rather be teaching and playing music than driving a tank into someone's house in Beirut or Bagdhad. I would much rather teach kids about the overtone series than sell life insurance. It's a choice...and I'm cool with my choices. I don't need to prove myself to you...so, I'll get back to what I like to do best: writing music. Good night kids, PG From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri May 9 03:29:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 03:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <514150.51049.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Michael, The thing that's tricky about your rant is that you talk about MS like it is the oh so tempting cookie that we're all looking for. I'm not looking for MS, I'm interested in the PEOPLE I have met and had creative and meaningful exchanges with...networking is the only real value - it's what Alicia says she wants (a networking tool for art freaks) without bedding Murdoch. I understand that concern, but it doesn't keep me from using the tool. And I would remind you: I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I'm not giving Murdoch a cent to have a MS page. They minute they charge to be on it, I'm gone. And, come on, why take away the unchecked JOY I experience when deleting friend requests from girls named Bambi that want to show me their personal photos? Cheers, PG Michael Henry wrote: Gino wrote (re: my buggy-ass Hitler analogy): >>Rupert is not even in that league. I won't take the bait. I quote from your previous message "Sometimes you have to dance with the devil." So please correct me if I am misinterpreting you.....does that mean that you wouldn't mind dancing with Hitler (as long as he provided free hosting services for you)? I didn't expect you (or anyone) to take any "bait" because I am not baiting any hooks. Rupert may not be in the same league as Hitler. But that doesn't necessarily imply that his league is minor. >>MySpace is far from over. At least for me. But I'm so not about trendiness. Neither am I. "Trendiness" is a good word to employe here. It describes the secondary reason I (try to) avoid even glancing at someone's MySpace page (the first being that any eyeballs there support Murdoch's fascist empire, either directly or indirectly) >>The other options are not as well populated by musical weirdos worldwide. The other systems tend to Balkanize too much for my tastes. Really? I would hasten to disagree here. Why even bother with any such any corporate- blood-sucking entity? Punk was (supposedly) about DIY. Some new music too. "Balkanized"? So what? I really regret to inform you of this, but the "new music community" (however you define it) is already Balkanized (capital "B"). And it has been for some time now. Really, since the 50's, 60's or perhaps even earlier. Maybe it has always been that way. Just take someone....let's say, the ever-so-pithy Kyle Gann for example, with his endless rantings on the the whole uptown vs. downtown composers (or just plain posers) tirade (and boy, is that tired.....). Talk about your "Balkanization.'.....(I'm imagining The Who, "Talking bout my Balkination") Look, I'm all for "musical weirdos worldwide" (MWW - great name for a group, thank you), but in my view there is nothing weird about MySpace other than the mystifying weirdness of why anyone would want to go there and stare at puke-inducing banner adds while spending innumerable hours sorting through tons of lame-ass chaff in order to find the wheat, all while Rupert Murdoch watches his bank account balance skyrocket as he sips a glass of fine wine (Chateau Petrus no doubt at $28,550 a bottle) poured by a young boy wearing a toga. Sorry, but this is exaclty what is "too much for my tastes." Even if your daughter does offer me the most scrumptiously delicious cookies that were ever baked. ;-) I'll just sum up by saying that most of the pro-MySpace arguments about this issue have seemed to amount to "well, yeah I know he's a fascist, but...." Excuses masquerading as reasons. In other words, it's free, it's easy, etc. so I can overlook the rest. I have a problem with that. But then that's just me. Thanks for the honest response to the question I posed, but I think I'll continue to be vigilant in my efforts to stay away from My-fucking-Rupert Murdoch-space.com. Even if your daughter make her incredibly delightful cookies from the "Dark Side" available there. BTW, are those cookies vegan? -MH _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri May 9 07:59:16 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 07:59:16 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> References: <4823B526.2030004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0805090759s2fb1a6e8qa25fb29e5a98a05e@mail.gmail.com> alicia: > > > but I guess I should have known that it would end up with people posting > endless videos of their retarded cats. > hey! ...i resemble that remark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR4K2KN8MRI :D From Damon at balancepointacoustics.com Fri May 9 08:54:49 2008 From: Damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 08:54:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] We have cookies! (was Poopoganda) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42B76D23-5504-4007-BFAE-DEE350446E94@balancepointacoustics.com> On May 9, 2008, at 12:32 AM, Michael Henry wrote: > > Rupert may not be in the same league as Hitler. But that doesn't > necessarily imply that his league is minor. - You like in America, right? That means you have already decided to stay here and be a part of things more dark and evil than Murdoch and myspace. Nobody's hands are clean. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri May 9 09:02:03 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 09:02:03 -0700 Su