From slusser at pixar.com Wed Oct 1 11:10:56 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 11:10:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzq81Und4M From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 12:01:43 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:01:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> References: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> Message-ID: <957DC0A1-9A9C-49D5-BAFF-E79A2D1FDD6E@gmail.com> I nearly pissed myself at the end. I totally remember watching this like, in the day and junk. bt On Oct 1, 2008, at 11:10 AM, David Slusser wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzq81Und4M > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 12:03:20 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:03:20 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> References: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> Message-ID: <2F56FF3F-8D9A-4FEE-AAB8-39C26D6F1068@gmail.com> Also, the mouthpiece is upside down in the last shot. bt On Oct 1, 2008, at 11:10 AM, David Slusser wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzq81Und4M > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From slusser at pixar.com Wed Oct 1 12:06:56 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:06:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: <957DC0A1-9A9C-49D5-BAFF-E79A2D1FDD6E@gmail.com> References: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> <957DC0A1-9A9C-49D5-BAFF-E79A2D1FDD6E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2807C23D-E5EA-4493-ACDE-C0F8C5BF14BE@pixar.com> On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:01 PM, barry threw wrote: > I nearly pissed myself at the end. > > I totally remember watching this like, in the day and junk. OK...here's another one you may remember (continue watching for cameos): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtWXtSKJ9I From bthrew at gmail.com Wed Oct 1 12:38:54 2008 From: bthrew at gmail.com (barry threw) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:38:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: <2807C23D-E5EA-4493-ACDE-C0F8C5BF14BE@pixar.com> References: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> <957DC0A1-9A9C-49D5-BAFF-E79A2D1FDD6E@gmail.com> <2807C23D-E5EA-4493-ACDE-C0F8C5BF14BE@pixar.com> Message-ID: <033DA778-0220-4D73-BB3B-5928795D40A4@gmail.com> This highlights the major difference between two significant sections of my musical education. Berklee: Put down the ducky. Mills: Hell, why don't you just shove the ducky inside the saxophone. What could possibly go wrong? In short, this crisis is why I switched to computer. Well, that and being uninspiring at the saxophone. Plus, you can't check email with a saxophone. bt On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:06 PM, David Slusser wrote: > On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:01 PM, barry threw wrote: > >> I nearly pissed myself at the end. >> >> I totally remember watching this like, in the day and junk. > > OK...here's another one you may remember (continue watching for > cameos): > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtWXtSKJ9I > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic barry threw Media Art and Technology San Francisco, CA Work: 857-544-3967 Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com Web: www.barrythrew.com From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Wed Oct 1 12:49:44 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:49:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: <2807C23D-E5EA-4493-ACDE-C0F8C5BF14BE@pixar.com> References: <703BAC9D-C2C6-4D85-A7A6-C011CF598340@pixar.com> <957DC0A1-9A9C-49D5-BAFF-E79A2D1FDD6E@gmail.com> <2807C23D-E5EA-4493-ACDE-C0F8C5BF14BE@pixar.com> Message-ID: It all makes sense to me now! Wynton Marsalis got his jazz lingo from Sesame Street! On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:06 PM, David Slusser wrote: > On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:01 PM, barry threw wrote: > >> I nearly pissed myself at the end. >> >> I totally remember watching this like, in the day and junk. > > OK...here's another one you may remember (continue watching for > cameos): > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVtWXtSKJ9I > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 1 14:57:48 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:57:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone Message-ID: Maybe you will be able to in the future! Things can always be improved! sl Barry wrote: Plus, you can't check email with a saxophone. From letucepry at yahoo.com Wed Oct 1 17:09:13 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone Message-ID: <574957.60367.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> If?saxophones started going obsolete every 6 months I think I'd loose my mind... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2008 2:57:48 PM Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone Maybe you will be able to in the future! Things can always be improved! sl Barry wrote: Plus, you can't? check email with a saxophone. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Thu Oct 2 00:28:46 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 00:28:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone Message-ID: I have no problem getting my email on my saxophone. But my french horn....damn, seems like 50 percent of my mail gets lost in those tubes. ing. -MH ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:09:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Lettuce Subject: Re: [NewMusic] saxophone To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Message-ID: <574957.60367.qm at web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 If?saxophones started going obsolete every 6 months I think I'd loose my mind... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2008 2:57:48 PM Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone Maybe you will be able to in the future! Things can always be improved! sl Barry wrote: Plus, you can't? check email with a saxophone. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Oct 2 01:02:24 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 01:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <455479.93082.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> my tenor is hooked up to skype, which is a far better system than e-mail. pg From zjaffee at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 21:35:02 2008 From: zjaffee at yahoo.com (Zac Jaffee) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 21:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] saxophone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <146286.42428.qm@web51505.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Is this your sax, Phillip? I hear it plays a killer version of Saturn, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjONQNUU8Fg&feature=related > > my tenor is hooked up to skype, which is a far better > system than e-mail. > > pg > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 2 > *************************************** From mcbrzytwa at yahoo.com Sat Oct 4 03:07:33 2008 From: mcbrzytwa at yahoo.com (maryclare brzytwa) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 03:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Saxaphone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <902557.76597.qm@web55104.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I hear that robot has a major ego problem. --- On Sat, 10/4/08, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote: From: newmusic-request at music.mills.edu Subject: NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 3 To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Date: Saturday, October 4, 2008, 12:00 AM Send NewMusic mailing list submissions to newmusic at music.mills.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to newmusic-request at music.mills.edu You can reach the person managing the list at newmusic-owner at music.mills.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of NewMusic digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: saxophone (Zac Jaffee) Is this your sax, Phillip? I hear it plays a killer version of Saturn, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjONQNUU8Fg&feature=related > > my tenor is hooked up to skype, which is a far better > system than e-mail. > > pg > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 2 > *************************************** _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From slusser at pixar.com Sat Oct 4 17:34:11 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 17:34:11 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Call for Works: 2009 San Francisco Tape Music Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CECC588-9A85-48F7-8B05-FE6A76A92274@pixar.com> On Sep 22, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: > We have had to push back the next San Francisco Tape Music Festival > to January, 2009. > > The deadline for submissions has also been extended to October 31st. > > We are especially interested in works by local composers. > > Details can be found on our website: > http://www.sfsound.org/tape/call.html > > Please forward to any interested parties. Hi Matt, Hope you're doing well. You may remember I was screwing around with Quad. I should play you some bits that could be developed into a piece, if you accept collage and appropriation. I'd like to play it for you in my Emeryville studio, if you have an opportunity...soon enough for me to finish it. thanks, David Slusser From slusser at pixar.com Sat Oct 4 17:36:59 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 17:36:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Call for Works: 2009 San Francisco Tape Music Festival In-Reply-To: <3CECC588-9A85-48F7-8B05-FE6A76A92274@pixar.com> References: <3CECC588-9A85-48F7-8B05-FE6A76A92274@pixar.com> Message-ID: <6979CBC3-CC3C-424A-87C1-3A51C82C1FD6@pixar.com> On Oct 4, 2008, at 5:34 PM, David Slusser wrote: sausage, anyone? From henrykuntz at comcast.net Sun Oct 5 17:44:40 2008 From: henrykuntz at comcast.net (Henry Kuntz) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 17:44:40 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Part 3 of My Journey... Message-ID: <000501c9274c$b7be2760$273a7620$@net> .to the extraordinary Italaque, Bolivia music festival is online. There are lots of photos (15) in this part of the story and three sound clips of music from the festival. You can find it here. http://henrykuntz.free-jazz.net/category/journey-to-italaque-part-iii/ Webmaster Klaus Thiemann has also updated the BELLS page with info on the "making of BELLS." BELLS is the improvised music newsletter/review I published from 1973-1979. You can have a look here. http://bells.free-jazz.net/about-the-making-of-bells/ Online BELLS articles remain accessible by clicking the link on the right. Hope you enjoy! Henry From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Sun Oct 5 21:59:48 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 21:59:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Radulescu r.i.p. Message-ID: <9474675A-2849-49DF-A03B-1538B000ED51@matthewgoodheart.com> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article4886771.ece Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Sun Oct 5 23:27:01 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 23:27:01 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Raymond Pettibon Films on UBU Message-ID: <6EE2A931-6D74-4531-82AE-18C338EDBAE4@balancepointacoustics.com> http://www.ubu.com/film/pettibon.html Sir Drone is the best one. It stars Mike Watt and Mike Kelly. They are trying to start a punk band in the 70s. It is a great film. I have the VHS and watched it over and and over and over. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From ingalls at mills.edu Tue Oct 7 11:14:12 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:14:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: Tenure-track faculty position in recorded audio art (Chicago) In-Reply-To: <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> References: , <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> Message-ID: TENURE-TRACK AUDIO ARTS AND ACOUSTICS FACULTY Audio Artist The Columbia College Chicago Department of Audio Arts and Acoustics is accepting applications for a tenure-track faculty position beginning Fall Semester 2009. The Department offers a comprehensive undergraduate education in audio design and production, audio for visual media, live sound reinforcement, and acoustics, supplemented by a strong Liberal Arts component. The successful candidate will hold an advanced / terminal degree or commensurate professional experience in either Audio Art, Sound Design, Media Arts, Music or a related field. Candidates should demonstrate substantial knowledge and professional experience in the production of recorded audio art and contemporary audio production techniques and practices. Also required is experience in teaching at the undergraduate level and a documented record of professional performances/exhibition of his/her works. Recent graduates must demonstrate exceptional promise in lieu of extensive professional and teaching experience. Duties will include teaching, curriculum development, learning outcomes assessment, student advising, participation in college and departmental activities, and professional development. Candidates are required to supply the search committee with a short cover letter detailing their qualifications, a current and complete curriculum vitae and three references. Examples of creative work may be requested at a later date. Columbia College Chicago is a diverse, open admissions, urban institution of over 12,000 undergraduate and graduate students emphasizing arts and communications in a liberal arts setting. The college encourages female, GLBT, disabled, international and minority classified individuals to apply for all positions. We offer a competitive salary and an excellent benefits package. The Department search committee will begin reviewing credentials January 15, 2009. No phone calls, please. For consideration, please submit materials via email to: aaarecruitment at colum.edu or Audio Arts and Acoustics Faculty Search ? POS 0934 Audio Arts & Acoustics Department Columbia College Chicago 600 South Michigan Avenue Chicago, Illinois 60605-1996 http://www.colum.edu EEO / AA Policy: The college encourages female, GLBT, disabled, international and minority classified individuals to apply for all positions. Contact Information (send resume to if no instructions are given above) Please reference AcademicKeys.com in your cover letter when applying for or inquiring about this job announcement. Contact: Audio Arts & Acoustics Department Audio Arts and Acoustics Faculty Search ? POS 0934 Columbia College Chicago Chicago, IL From highhorse at mhorse.com Tue Oct 7 11:32:11 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:32:11 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: , <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> I know there aren't too many performance announcements here, if this is non grata let me know and I'll won't be-spam in the future. This Thursday the 9th I'm playing at Luggage Store Gallery with Alan Anzalone, at 9 p.m. Alan plays horns (usually soprano and bari sax), and I'll have my usual setup of a four-track loaded with (blank) loop tapes plus a Dictaphone, fed with nylon-string guitar. Then next Tuesday, the 14th, I'll be playing at Bookzoo in Oakland (big thanks to Beau for suggesting this venue!!) with Matt Davignon, at 7:30. I suspect ya'll know what Matt does with his drum machines. We'll do solos and duos this evening I think. Of less relevant interest here, I'm also doing a non-improvised show at Annie's Social Club in SF this sunday at 7:00, half instrumental compositions and half vocal tunes, again with the nylon-string. begging indulgence, Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Oct 7 12:30:15 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:30:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: Uh, daryl, hate to break it to you, but the reason there aren't very many show announcements on this list, is because there is a separate list for show announcements. It is here: http://music.mills.edu/pipermail/newmusicevents/ sl From highhorse at mhorse.com Tue Oct 7 12:40:09 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:40:09 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48EBBB19.6050101@mhorse.com> Crap, I knew there was a reason! thanks, Sarah. Sorry for the spam...ignorance of the law is no excuse.. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com www.chinapaintingmusic.com > Uh, daryl, hate to break it to you, but the reason there aren't very many > show announcements on this list, is because there is a separate list for > show announcements. > > It is here: > http://music.mills.edu/pipermail/newmusicevents/ > > sl > From polly.moller at gmail.com Tue Oct 7 12:49:02 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:49:02 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> References: <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40810071249r3b0be131o64246cb12a9a9280@mail.gmail.com> Daryl, you are now Sausage of the Day, and you must buy Matt Davignon lunch! :) P. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Daryl Shawn wrote: > I know there aren't too many performance announcements here, if this is > non grata let me know and I'll won't be-spam in the future. > > This Thursday the 9th I'm playing at Luggage Store Gallery with Alan > Anzalone, at 9 p.m. Alan plays horns (usually soprano and bari sax), and > I'll have my usual setup of a four-track loaded with (blank) loop tapes > plus a Dictaphone, fed with nylon-string guitar. > > Then next Tuesday, the 14th, I'll be playing at Bookzoo in Oakland (big > thanks to Beau for suggesting this venue!!) with Matt Davignon, at 7:30. > I suspect ya'll know what Matt does with his drum machines. We'll do > solos and duos this evening I think. > > Of less relevant interest here, I'm also doing a non-improvised show at > Annie's Social Club in SF this sunday at 7:00, half instrumental > compositions and half vocal tunes, again with the nylon-string. > > begging indulgence, > > Daryl Shawn > www.swanwelder.com > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From highhorse at mhorse.com Tue Oct 7 13:03:59 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:03:59 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40810071249r3b0be131o64246cb12a9a9280@mail.gmail.com> References: <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> <2eb068d40810071249r3b0be131o64246cb12a9a9280@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48EBC0AF.3000701@mhorse.com> Oy..!...the hazing...!! Matt, I'll bring a real Oaxacan tlayuda to our show next week, w/extra beef grease. The freshness may be lacking, but I'll guarantee the authenticity. sr. chorizo del dia, Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > Daryl, you are now Sausage of the Day, and you must buy Matt Davignon lunch! > :) > P. > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Daryl Shawn wrote: > > >> I know there aren't too many performance announcements here, if this is >> non grata let me know and I'll won't be-spam in the future. >> >> This Thursday the 9th I'm playing at Luggage Store Gallery with Alan >> Anzalone, at 9 p.m. Alan plays horns (usually soprano and bari sax), and >> I'll have my usual setup of a four-track loaded with (blank) loop tapes >> plus a Dictaphone, fed with nylon-string guitar. >> >> Then next Tuesday, the 14th, I'll be playing at Bookzoo in Oakland (big >> thanks to Beau for suggesting this venue!!) with Matt Davignon, at 7:30. >> I suspect ya'll know what Matt does with his drum machines. We'll do >> solos and duos this evening I think. >> >> Of less relevant interest here, I'm also doing a non-improvised show at >> Annie's Social Club in SF this sunday at 7:00, half instrumental >> compositions and half vocal tunes, again with the nylon-string. >> >> begging indulgence, >> >> Daryl Shawn >> www.swanwelder.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> > > > > From Gino.Robair at penton.com Tue Oct 7 13:38:46 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:38:46 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: <> Or rather, Ignorance of the sausage .... From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue Oct 7 16:50:47 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 16:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Volunteers Needed for Mockracy Performances In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <919649.80936.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hey bListers, Our friend Tom Djll is looking for a few folks to help out at the Mockracy performances, coming up shortly. I've listed his plea below...help a brother out, if you can, and drop him a line if you're interested. His email (please do this off-list) is below. Cheers, PG Hi BANEWMUS people. I love you all and I miss posting and arguing with you. And I want you to come to my concert. That is, even if you're not in it. That being Mockracy: The Mocktober Surprise, Oct 18-19 at the Oakland Metro Operatheater. I can offer comps and party drinks to volunteers who can help with: --manning the sales table --two usher/stagehands To qualify, your attendance would be required on three nights, October 16, 18, and 19 (Thurs-Sat-Sun) 2008. 7pm. Thursday night is the dress rehearsal. place: Oakland Metro Operatheater, 630 3rd St. at MLK, near Jack London Square Please reply offlist to: djll at sonic.net Thank you, td From polly.moller at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 07:23:07 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 07:23:07 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Y'all missed out! Message-ID: <2eb068d40810080723h8ccacc9ufb316724e9428e45@mail.gmail.com> Everybody who couldn't make it over to Temescal Arts last night missed out on a great show, featuring the tight and virtuosic improvisations of Rosenberg, Robair, and Shiurba, followed by an inspired and amazing solo performance art tour de force by the marvelous Moe! I'm so glad I went. P. -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 8 09:53:04 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2008 09:53:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Y'all missed out! Message-ID: Did Gino actually play drums? sl From polly.moller at gmail.com Wed Oct 8 09:54:00 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:54:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Y'all missed out! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eb068d40810080954v65096769lb7f7f8b3299f6b2c@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, he did! I saw him. P. On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>wrote: > Did Gino actually play drums? > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Wed Oct 8 10:26:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 10:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Y'all missed out! In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40810080954v65096769lb7f7f8b3299f6b2c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <983766.25119.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I saw him too, and Polly is right - it was a great show! Thanks to Tom Duff and crew for keeping the ball in the air with Temescal Arts Center, I hope this series continues... Great show, I can't say enough good things about it - especially since I'm late for work and have to fly! Peace! PG --- On Wed, 10/8/08, Polly Moller wrote: > From: Polly Moller > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Y'all missed out! > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2008, 9:54 AM > Yeah, he did! I saw him. > P. > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:53 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand > <21grand at 21grand.org>wrote: > > > Did Gino actually play drums? > > > > sl > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore > ------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From td at pixar.com Wed Oct 8 23:15:44 2008 From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 23:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Y'all missed out! In-Reply-To: <983766.25119.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <983766.25119.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > I saw him too, and Polly is right - it was a great show! Thanks to Tom > Duff and crew for keeping the ball in the air with Temescal Arts Center, > I hope this series continues... Thanks. It was only barely my doing. John Shiurba, Liz Albee & Gino are major co-conspirators. All things considered, I think primary responsibility has to fall on John's shoulders this time. Stay tuned. We're going to do this the first Tuesday of every month. -- Tom Duff. The mouse puzzle has no sound effects. From slusser at pixar.com Fri Oct 10 14:39:43 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:39:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Monk birthday on WKCR Message-ID: <934BF820-145F-41A4-9E01-227DB4D0D3E8@pixar.com> http://www.columbia.edu/cu/wkcr/ From djcypod at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 21:18:18 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:18:18 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> References: <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> Message-ID: cool your playing at the loopfest! I did that last year, and it was loads of fun. On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Daryl Shawn wrote: > I know there aren't too many performance announcements here, if this is > non grata let me know and I'll won't be-spam in the future. > > This Thursday the 9th I'm playing at Luggage Store Gallery with Alan > Anzalone, at 9 p.m. Alan plays horns (usually soprano and bari sax), and > I'll have my usual setup of a four-track loaded with (blank) loop tapes > plus a Dictaphone, fed with nylon-string guitar. > > Then next Tuesday, the 14th, I'll be playing at Bookzoo in Oakland (big > thanks to Beau for suggesting this venue!!) with Matt Davignon, at 7:30. > I suspect ya'll know what Matt does with his drum machines. We'll do > solos and duos this evening I think. > > Of less relevant interest here, I'm also doing a non-improvised show at > Annie's Social Club in SF this sunday at 7:00, half instrumental > compositions and half vocal tunes, again with the nylon-string. > > begging indulgence, > > Daryl Shawn > www.swanwelder.com > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From cortese.consulting at gmail.com Fri Oct 10 21:51:06 2008 From: cortese.consulting at gmail.com (Chris Cortese) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:51:06 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F030BA.7000101@gmail.com> Thanks for reminding me! I almost forgot that it's the birthday of my favorite piano player and main inspiration at the piano! Chris > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:39:43 -0700 > From: David Slusser > Subject: [NewMusic] Monk birthday on WKCR > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Message-ID: <934BF820-145F-41A4-9E01-227DB4D0D3E8 at pixar.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > http://www.columbia.edu/cu/wkcr/ > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 10 > **************************************** > From djcypod at gmail.com Sat Oct 11 20:30:15 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:30:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Sigur Rosa Message-ID: http://current.com/items/89173668_sigur_r_s_moma From henrykuntz at comcast.net Mon Oct 13 01:57:43 2008 From: henrykuntz at comcast.net (Henry Kuntz) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:57:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Part 4, the Exciting Conclusion... Message-ID: <001401c92d11$c1e034c0$45a09e40$@net> .of my journey to the Italaque, Bolivia festival is now online: http://henrykuntz.free-jazz.net/category/journey-to-italaque-part-iv/ There is also now a second mp3 on the Sax & Stories home page. "SolarSonic 1" with four Guatemalan chirimias. http://henrykuntz.free-jazz.net/ Hope you enjoy! Henry PS - If you are able to view the story using the Firefox web browser, you will be able to expand the photos to full-screen size and also see the photos' captions when you pass your cursor over them. From highhorse at mhorse.com Mon Oct 13 14:17:46 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:17:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> Message-ID: <48F3BAFA.3000601@mhorse.com> hey Beau, sorry, just saw this. I played last year too, but only was there one day because of other shows so I missed your set completely. drat.! I would here segue into a promotion for that festival, but one day of sausagicity is more than plenty for a vegetarian so I won't even mention it. I mean, barely. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > cool your playing at the loopfest! I did that last year, and it was > loads of fun. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Mon Oct 13 14:53:07 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:53:07 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: <48F3BAFA.3000601@mhorse.com> References: <1FD60D1C-FE93-4613-8F10-0B40453AF086@videotron.ca> <48EBAB2B.7090703@mhorse.com> <48F3BAFA.3000601@mhorse.com> Message-ID: Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the form of loops. There are some artists that just use it for the easiest possible thing (assigning loops for the bass part, rhythm part, backing chords and then soloing over the mix), but then there are others who will do something completely new. I've mentioned to some that there's an unusually large contingent of ambient ebow guitarists involved (as in Fripp/Eno "No Pussyfooting"). Also, the music genres are largely more traditional than what we see here - rock, ballads, techno, folk, surf, world-beat, etc. However, within those frameworks there's lots of creativity and innovation to go around. Not to mention the great sense of international community that's fostered at these events - if you don't happen to like the current set, you can step outside and socialize with the other folks who've come from all over the place to participate. info about the event is at http://www.y2kloopfest.com/ Matt On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote: > hey Beau, sorry, just saw this. I played last year too, but only was > there one day because of other shows so I missed your set completely. drat.! > > I would here segue into a promotion for that festival, but one day of > sausagicity is more than plenty for a vegetarian so I won't even mention > it. I mean, barely. > > Daryl Shawn > www.swanwelder.com > >> cool your playing at the loopfest! I did that last year, and it was >> loads of fun. > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From 21grand at 21grand.org Mon Oct 13 20:57:44 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:57:44 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." I mean, it just strikes me as similar to a theoretical "double bass pedal festival" or "double paradiddle festival" or "circular breathing festival" ... I don't mean to denigrate the participants or any good music that comes out of it, but to focus on technique and/or technology that isn't totally new or rare just doesn't seem to be a compelling organizing principle to me. There's a point where things are novel and thus prompts a "gee whiz" factor or a coming together of "fringe elements," but most things eventually trickle down to the general populace and lose those factors, and then, in terms of organizing and "raisons d'etre" it's sometimes time to move on. In the earlier part of this decade, I used to curate a series of performances involving music and projected media. At the time, it was relatively uncommon, but after everyone and their puppy got laptops, dvd players, digital editing software, and cheap projectors, it became all too common, and I became less interested in showcasing it on that basis. I guess I've just been thinking a lot about related issues in terms of my own work, as well as in the arts community as a whole. When is it time to call it done and move on? When one's niche is no longer one's niche, what do you do, or rather, what do you do differently in terms of identifying/classifying/categorizing what you do to others? This applies to organizations, events, as well as artists. Honestly, this isn't meant just to take a jab at the "looping festival," but to use it as a way of raising questions about general issues of purpose. sl Matt d wrote: Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the form of loops. From philipeverett at yahoo.com Mon Oct 13 23:23:30 2008 From: philipeverett at yahoo.com (Philip Everett) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: <14199.56100.qm@web63703.mail.re1.yahoo.com> How about the circular?paradiddle double?breathing bass?pedal festival ?!!! ???????????????????????????????????????????????? Philip E.???? ;-} ----- Original Message ---- From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:57:44 PM Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." I mean, it just strikes me as similar to a theoretical "double bass pedal festival" or "double paradiddle festival" or "circular breathing festival" ... I don't mean to denigrate the participants or any good music that comes out of it, but to focus on technique and/or technology that isn't totally new or rare just doesn't seem to be a compelling organizing principle to me. There's a point where things are novel and thus prompts a "gee whiz" factor or a coming together of "fringe elements," but most things eventually trickle down to the general populace and lose those factors, and then, in terms of organizing and "raisons d'etre" it's sometimes time to move on. In the earlier part of this decade, I used to curate a series of performances involving music and projected media. At the time, it was relatively uncommon, but after everyone and their puppy got laptops, dvd players, digital editing software, and cheap projectors, it became all too common, and I became less interested in showcasing it on that basis. I guess I've just been thinking a lot about related issues in terms of my own work, as well as in the arts community as a whole. When is it time to call it done and move on? When one's niche is no longer one's niche, what do you do, or rather, what do you do differently in terms of identifying/classifying/categorizing what you do to others?? This applies to organizations, events, as well as artists. Honestly, this isn't meant just to take a jab at the "looping festival," but to use it as a way of raising questions about general issues of purpose. sl Matt d wrote: Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the form of loops. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From highhorse at mhorse.com Tue Oct 14 00:49:49 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:49:49 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F44F1D.7020408@mhorse.com> I hear what you're saying, though my opinion is that it's a matter of perspective. If you ask the average music listener what looping is, I'd venture that they still wouldn't know what you're talking about, regardless of the numbers of Roland pedals once can now buy to have loops all to oneself. There are a few more touchstones as of the few past years, like Imogen Heap, or Battles, or KT Tunstall. But though names like Terry Riley or Robert Fripp are of household familiarity to many of us, the general populace has no idea who these folks are or how they achieved what they did/do, even though their example is now 30-40 years old. As a sometimes-looping artiste, I'd venture to say that looping isn't necessarily a technique so much as it is an approach and performance algorithm. To wit, almost all of the performers at this particular festival are solo, improvising, instrumental artists. It's a niche, as much as "noise" is, as I experienced at a festival in Sacramento this past weekend. Music oriented toward harsh sounds and unnatural tones has been around for quite a long time, but the Noisefest - in its twelfth year, no less - was vibrant, supportive and exciting. From what I saw last year, the loop festival also achieved that. Maybe it's as tired as the "Girls Rock" nights that clubs feel compelled to host every once in a while, but still it seems to call out a particular community to participate. If the participating artists were indistinguishable from the average corner pub act, I'd say it's time to give up the ghost - picture an electric guitar festival, or sure, a double bass pedal festival. It's not there yet, I don't think. C. Everett Koop, Betty Boop, & raisins, two scoops, Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, > almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it > was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be > stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the > giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." From letucepry at yahoo.com Tue Oct 14 09:12:30 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: <990148.9246.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >How about the circular paradiddle double breathing bass pedal festival ?!!! I see that everytime I go to DudeCenter... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Philip Everett To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 11:23:30 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows How about the circular paradiddle double breathing bass pedal festival ?!!! Philip E. ;-} ----- Original Message ---- From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:57:44 PM Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." I mean, it just strikes me as similar to a theoretical "double bass pedal festival" or "double paradiddle festival" or "circular breathing festival" ... I don't mean to denigrate the participants or any good music that comes out of it, but to focus on technique and/or technology that isn't totally new or rare just doesn't seem to be a compelling organizing principle to me. There's a point where things are novel and thus prompts a "gee whiz" factor or a coming together of "fringe elements," but most things eventually trickle down to the general populace and lose those factors, and then, in terms of organizing and "raisons d'etre" it's sometimes time to move on. In the earlier part of this decade, I used to curate a series of performances involving music and projected media. At the time, it was relatively uncommon, but after everyone and their puppy got laptops, dvd players, digital editing software, and cheap projectors, it became all too common, and I became less interested in showcasing it on that basis. I guess I've just been thinking a lot about related issues in terms of my own work, as well as in the arts community as a whole. When is it time to call it done and move on? When one's niche is no longer one's niche, what do you do, or rather, what do you do differently in terms of identifying/classifying/categorizing what you do to others? This applies to organizations, events, as well as artists. Honestly, this isn't meant just to take a jab at the "looping festival," but to use it as a way of raising questions about general issues of purpose. sl Matt d wrote: Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the form of loops. _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From miltnerunit at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 11:25:24 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:25:24 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: my 2 cents: I actually enjoy trying to curate around a technique or device, because while it limits the materials used, it does not limit anyone conceptually. so (hopefully) you'd get 7 or 8 different treatments of the same device or method, producing a wide variety of music. You get a theme, or a common thread, without the rigidity of deciding that your theme is a certain type of music. But that's only if the technique or device produces a wide range of concepts. it's better with more general categories like 'strings' or 'animal sounds' but if you narrow it down to 'double bass pedal festival' or 'ebow' or 'ableton live' you get a lot of the same music over and over. It's an interesting problem to try to solve. k On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, > almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it > was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be > stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the > giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." > > I mean, it just strikes me as similar to a theoretical "double bass pedal > festival" or "double paradiddle festival" or "circular breathing festival" > ... I don't mean to denigrate the participants or any good music that comes > out of it, but to focus on technique and/or technology that isn't totally > new or rare just doesn't seem to be a compelling organizing principle to me. > > There's a point where things are novel and thus prompts a "gee whiz" factor > or a coming together of "fringe elements," but most things eventually > trickle down to the general populace and lose those factors, and then, in > terms of organizing and "raisons d'etre" it's sometimes time to move on. > > In the earlier part of this decade, I used to curate a series of > performances involving music and projected media. At the time, it was > relatively uncommon, but after everyone and their puppy got laptops, dvd > players, digital editing software, and cheap projectors, it became all too > common, and I became less interested in showcasing it on that basis. > > I guess I've just been thinking a lot about related issues in terms of my > own work, as well as in the arts community as a whole. When is it time to > call it done and move on? When one's niche is no longer one's niche, what do > you do, or rather, what do you do differently in terms of > identifying/classifying/categorizing what you do to others? This applies to > organizations, events, as well as artists. > > Honestly, this isn't meant just to take a jab at the "looping festival," but > to use it as a way of raising questions about general issues of purpose. > > sl > > Matt d wrote: > Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this > festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz > this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" > than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is > "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other > box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the > form of loops. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.kristinmiltner.net www.myspace.com/miltnerunit http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html From lx.rudis at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 11:39:42 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:39:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: booking west coast tour In-Reply-To: <5E5B627A-8527-43B6-8572-E4EC67E417F5@earthlink.net> References: <49693.77.209.57.89.1221380893.squirrel@mail.santiagolatorre.com> <5E5B627A-8527-43B6-8572-E4EC67E417F5@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7272233a0810141139u67ffd3afx9c3c6693796a621c@mail.gmail.com> hey ernesto. i'm in heavy communication with santiago, trying to find him some sort of venue while he's here. i hate offering javacat, no built in audience. igot calls out to piratecatradio, also some of the old drum machine museum folks. lx On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Ernesto Diaz-Infante wrote: > hi everybody, > this guy Santiago from Barcelona is interested in playing in the bay > area. > please contact him directly if you can help him out. > cheers! > Ernesto > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "Santiago Latorre" > > Date: September 14, 2008 1:28:13 AM PDT > > To: itzat at earthlink.net > > Subject: booking west coast tour > > > > Hi Ernesto > > > > I'm Santiago Latorre, a sound artist from Barcelona. My debut > > album, ?rbita, will be released on Accretions this November, so Marcos > > Fernandes and I are trying to book a west coast tour to present it. > > > > I will be in the west coast from November 10th through December 1st. > > Please let me know if you can help us to arrange any date in San > > Francisco or > > around. > > > > I've attached some information about the project. > > Thank you. > > Best Regards, > > Santiago > > > > > > > > info at santiagolatorre.com > > +34 636891619 > > www.santiagolatorre.com > > www.myspace.com/santiagolatorre > > > > Marcos Fernandes. Accretions: marcos.fernandes at accretions.com > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From lx.rudis at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 12:12:05 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:12:05 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: booking west coast tour In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810141139u67ffd3afx9c3c6693796a621c@mail.gmail.com> References: <49693.77.209.57.89.1221380893.squirrel@mail.santiagolatorre.com> <5E5B627A-8527-43B6-8572-E4EC67E417F5@earthlink.net> <7272233a0810141139u67ffd3afx9c3c6693796a621c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0810141212r28ffd7cfqe405b4b19bc47813@mail.gmail.com> ignore last post. x From djcypod at gmail.com Tue Oct 14 23:24:03 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:24:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bring back video music night with laptops and puppies, I'm totally in! On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:25 AM, kristin miltner wrote: > my 2 cents: I actually enjoy trying to curate around a technique or > device, because while it limits the materials used, it does not limit > anyone conceptually. so (hopefully) you'd get 7 or 8 different > treatments of the same device or method, producing a wide variety of > music. You get a theme, or a common thread, without the rigidity of > deciding that your theme is a certain type of music. > > But that's only if the technique or device produces a wide range of > concepts. it's better with more general categories like 'strings' or > 'animal sounds' but if you narrow it down to 'double bass pedal > festival' or 'ebow' or 'ableton live' you get a lot of the same music > over and over. It's an interesting problem to try to solve. > > k > > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >> Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, >> almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it >> was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be >> stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the >> giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." >> >> I mean, it just strikes me as similar to a theoretical "double bass pedal >> festival" or "double paradiddle festival" or "circular breathing festival" >> ... I don't mean to denigrate the participants or any good music that comes >> out of it, but to focus on technique and/or technology that isn't totally >> new or rare just doesn't seem to be a compelling organizing principle to me. >> >> There's a point where things are novel and thus prompts a "gee whiz" factor >> or a coming together of "fringe elements," but most things eventually >> trickle down to the general populace and lose those factors, and then, in >> terms of organizing and "raisons d'etre" it's sometimes time to move on. >> >> In the earlier part of this decade, I used to curate a series of >> performances involving music and projected media. At the time, it was >> relatively uncommon, but after everyone and their puppy got laptops, dvd >> players, digital editing software, and cheap projectors, it became all too >> common, and I became less interested in showcasing it on that basis. >> >> I guess I've just been thinking a lot about related issues in terms of my >> own work, as well as in the arts community as a whole. When is it time to >> call it done and move on? When one's niche is no longer one's niche, what do >> you do, or rather, what do you do differently in terms of >> identifying/classifying/categorizing what you do to others? This applies to >> organizations, events, as well as artists. >> >> Honestly, this isn't meant just to take a jab at the "looping festival," but >> to use it as a way of raising questions about general issues of purpose. >> >> sl >> >> Matt d wrote: >> Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this >> festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz >> this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" >> than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is >> "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other >> box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the >> form of loops. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > kristin miltner > audio professional > www.kristinmiltner.net > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner > http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From aliciabyer at gmail.com Wed Oct 15 00:40:54 2008 From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 00:40:54 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48F59E86.6040405@gmail.com> I don't know if it's an interesting problem to solve so much as just that people need a kick in the pants to keep them from coming to the conclusion that having an ebow automatically = going "eee" and building up textures atmospherically for 20 minutes. We could be a little tougher on each other. The looper festival sounds sort of neat in that 'very santa cruz' way but not really musically progressive although I wasn't there so maybe the couple of creative acts made up for all the rest.. or maybe I'm being too judgmental. I'm just feeling lately like.. maybe you're with me here Sarah... it's so easy to do everything in music with technology now that it's sort of our /responsibility/ to stop putting up with crap... lest there is a 'new music' loop in the next garage band. alicia kristin miltner wrote: > my 2 cents: I actually enjoy trying to curate around a technique or > device, because while it limits the materials used, it does not limit > anyone conceptually. so (hopefully) you'd get 7 or 8 different > treatments of the same device or method, producing a wide variety of > music. You get a theme, or a common thread, without the rigidity of > deciding that your theme is a certain type of music. > > But that's only if the technique or device produces a wide range of > concepts. it's better with more general categories like 'strings' or > 'animal sounds' but if you narrow it down to 'double bass pedal > festival' or 'ebow' or 'ableton live' you get a lot of the same music > over and over. It's an interesting problem to try to solve. > > k > > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > >> Okay, I'll say a thing or two about it, as well. It strikes me as a weird, >> almost silly concept for a festival ... Maybe back in the 70s/80s when it >> was more novel, and the technology was relatively novel, I wouldn't be >> stifling giggles of embarrassment at the name. I'd be dishonest to say the >> giggles are totally unrelated to words that rhyme with "loop." >> >> I mean, it just strikes me as similar to a theoretical "double bass pedal >> festival" or "double paradiddle festival" or "circular breathing festival" >> ... I don't mean to denigrate the participants or any good music that comes >> out of it, but to focus on technique and/or technology that isn't totally >> new or rare just doesn't seem to be a compelling organizing principle to me. >> >> There's a point where things are novel and thus prompts a "gee whiz" factor >> or a coming together of "fringe elements," but most things eventually >> trickle down to the general populace and lose those factors, and then, in >> terms of organizing and "raisons d'etre" it's sometimes time to move on. >> >> In the earlier part of this decade, I used to curate a series of >> performances involving music and projected media. At the time, it was >> relatively uncommon, but after everyone and their puppy got laptops, dvd >> players, digital editing software, and cheap projectors, it became all too >> common, and I became less interested in showcasing it on that basis. >> >> I guess I've just been thinking a lot about related issues in terms of my >> own work, as well as in the arts community as a whole. When is it time to >> call it done and move on? When one's niche is no longer one's niche, what do >> you do, or rather, what do you do differently in terms of >> identifying/classifying/categorizing what you do to others? This applies to >> organizations, events, as well as artists. >> >> Honestly, this isn't meant just to take a jab at the "looping festival," but >> to use it as a way of raising questions about general issues of purpose. >> >> sl >> >> Matt d wrote: >> Well, I'll say a thing or two about it. I enjoy participating in this >> festival each year (that is the y2k8 looping festival in santa cruz >> this weekend.) It's a completely different set of "creative music" >> than what we have up here in the bay area. The festival theme is >> "looping", which simply means all the artists use DL-4's or some other >> box that records and feeds back their live instrumental sounds in the >> form of loops. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> > > > > From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Wed Oct 15 10:58:46 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:58:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Canine version of "Music for Solo Performer" Message-ID: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/offbeat/2008/10/15/radio.chihuahua.WOIO Forgive the commercial and the cheesy CNN news style, but perhaps this could be the basis for Alvin Lucier's next piece Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 15 11:43:59 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:43:59 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: Alicia wrote: I don't know if it's an interesting problem to solve so much as just that people need a kick in the pants to keep them from coming to the conclusion that having an ebow automatically = going "eee" and building up textures atmospherically for 20 minutes. We could be a little tougher on each other. -- Well, I think people could be a little tougher on themselves. Obviously this goes for the, er aforementioned lazy loopers, and not those who are constantly pushing themselves to develop as artists blah blah blah. -- But it's a tough one - even the dude with his pedal repeating (perhaps ad nauseum) "doop de doop doop doop doopdie do doo" feels like by looping "doop de doop doop doop doopdie do doo" he is engaging in some liberating act of self-expression. And, if one were to say, "uh dude, your doop de doop loop is tired, could you do something more interesting when there's an actual audience involved?" ... -- Obviously constructive criticism is an art form in and of itself ... But still ... Even telling someone pretty good that their set should have only been 20 minutes and not 45, you are suggesting that they didn't deserve 25 minutes of joy, even if all they did was play scales. I'm just feeling lately like.. maybe you're with me here Sarah... it's so easy to do everything in music with technology now that it's sort of our /responsibility/ to stop putting up with crap... lest there is a 'new music' loop in the next garage band. -- That's part of my feeling. It's part of some "avant-garde problem" of wanting to see things taken further, partly on a, for lack of a better word, "macro" level, but also in terms of individual artists and musicians (myself included)- wanting to see people push themselves further. That's one positive thing I can say about this "scene" - is that over the past 8 years that I've been involved, I've seen so many people doing this. -- And definitely, as we've discussed here before at length, technological developments have led to the ease of disseminating crap ...or just pure mediocrity. -- But my initial post was predicated more on the feeling that focusing on something for novel technology or technique isn't cutting it for me anymore, and what I'm more interested in is "content" or "quality." I'm more interested in seeing good free jazz than mediocre interactive video/music performance, whereas 5 years ago, it was the reverse for me. sl From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Wed Oct 15 11:47:29 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:47:29 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't really find live processing of any kind too interesting. I have plenty to do with the instrument, I think electronics are a lot more interesting for working with sounds instruments can't make. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From djcypod at gmail.com Wed Oct 15 17:56:42 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:56:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: how about some variety to liven things up? Break down some of those walls between "scenes" example: 1st 20 min Laptop DJ beside stage- casual atmosphere, audience standing chatting, etc... 2nd 8 min Comedian - audience finding seats, laughing 3rd 30 min Free Jazz - audience sitting or Dancing(if they still allow that in Oakland?), video projectionist providing some visuals On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Damon Smith wrote: > I don't really find live processing of any kind too interesting. I > have plenty to do with the instrument, I think electronics are a lot > more interesting for working with sounds instruments can't make. > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Thu Oct 16 01:09:27 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 01:09:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Fwd: booking west coast tour In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810141139u67ffd3afx9c3c6693796a621c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <411346.25897.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> it's pretty depressing these days. things have slowed down a lot. i have several people trying to get me to help them set up shows right now, including tony malaby and drew gress, and i don't have the foggiest idea of where to recommend. makes you appreciate better days... pg --- On Tue, 10/14/08, lx rudis wrote: > From: lx rudis > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Fwd: booking west coast tour > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 11:39 AM > hey ernesto. > > i'm in heavy communication with santiago, trying to > find him some sort of > venue while he's here. > i hate offering javacat, no built in audience. > > igot calls out to piratecatradio, also some of the old drum > machine museum > folks. > > > > lx > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Ernesto Diaz-Infante > wrote: > > > hi everybody, > > this guy Santiago from Barcelona is interested in > playing in the bay > > area. > > please contact him directly if you can help him out. > > cheers! > > Ernesto > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > From: "Santiago Latorre" > > > > Date: September 14, 2008 1:28:13 AM PDT > > > To: itzat at earthlink.net > > > Subject: booking west coast tour > > > > > > Hi Ernesto > > > > > > I'm Santiago Latorre, a sound artist from > Barcelona. My debut > > > album, ?rbita, will be released on Accretions > this November, so Marcos > > > Fernandes and I are trying to book a west coast > tour to present it. > > > > > > I will be in the west coast from November 10th > through December 1st. > > > Please let me know if you can help us to arrange > any date in San > > > Francisco or > > > around. > > > > > > I've attached some information about the > project. > > > Thank you. > > > Best Regards, > > > Santiago > > > > > > > > > > > > info at santiagolatorre.com > > > +34 636891619 > > > www.santiagolatorre.com > > > www.myspace.com/santiagolatorre > > > > > > Marcos Fernandes. Accretions: > marcos.fernandes at accretions.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From mistermeridies at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 05:05:45 2008 From: mistermeridies at gmail.com (Mr. Meridies) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:05:45 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d9bc59d0810160505i7f40d212rc8af6ab476bd2644@mail.gmail.com> bb> We conciously tried some of that back in the late Pleistocene era at Kommotion with the Cultural Labyrinth series. There was some interest from the audience but we never got it as far "out" in terms of crossing out of the music scene as I had initially hoped. Largely this was because of lack of free time to fill in the line-up with stuff from outside the music domain, but also because there was enough diversity in musical acts to sustain the vision without having to hunt around too much. Based on that experience I would say the challenge to meeting this goal (an admirable one) is that having a deep enough reach into all the relevant performance fields is probably beyond the scope of any one "curator" and figuring out a committee structure is the way forward. Having a group that can actually communicate some kind of aesthetic vision both to each other and the artists is the key to a strong outcome... On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 5:56 PM, beau wrote: > how about some variety to liven things up? Break down some of those > walls between "scenes" > > example: > 1st 20 min Laptop DJ beside stage- casual atmosphere, audience > standing chatting, etc... > > 2nd 8 min Comedian - audience finding seats, laughing > > 3rd 30 min Free Jazz - audience sitting or Dancing(if they still allow > that in Oakland?), video projectionist providing some visuals > > > From slusser at pixar.com Thu Oct 16 10:21:48 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:21:48 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: <5d9bc59d0810160505i7f40d212rc8af6ab476bd2644@mail.gmail.com> References: <5d9bc59d0810160505i7f40d212rc8af6ab476bd2644@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0A9C165C-15EB-40A7-A644-B4134834F908@pixar.com> On Oct 16, 2008, at 5:05 AM, Mr. Meridies wrote: > bb> We conciously tried some of that back in the late Pleistocene > era at > Kommotion with the Cultural Labyrinth series. There were some amazing nights at that place. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 13:47:28 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:47:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Alicia was all: > I don't know if it's an interesting problem to solve so much as just > that people need a kick in the pants to keep them from coming to the > conclusion that having an ebow automatically = going "eee" and building > up textures atmospherically for 20 minutes. We could be a little tougher > on each other. Well, the same can be said for pretty much anything going on in music. I think there are loads of people get too wrapped up in what they're "supposed" to do with their equipment and genre: Rock guitarists who just go chug chug chug, avant-garde sax players obligated to do the John Zorn thing. It's part of why I think more people should be multi-instrumentalists. Sarah was like: > doop de doop doop doop doopdie do doo...doop de doop doop doop doopdie do doo ... uh, dude, ... doop de doop ... You make a good point here. However, the right kind of loops encourage a sort of absent listening that is different than how you'd listen to a guitar solo. You just accept it as part of the landscape, or a smudge of dirt on the window through which you're watching stuff happen. These days those loops tend to be abstract textural stuff. In the early 90's it was cool to depend on loops as the primary melodic/rhythmic content in electronic music. (Especially in repetitions that are multiples of 4.) I totally agree that technique often sounds dated when used in 2008. That doesn't mean we have to throw out the technique entirely - we just have to avoid getting suckered into doing the most obvious thing with them. Then Sarah went: > -- That's part of my feeling. It's part of some "avant-garde problem" of > wanting to see things taken further, partly on a, for lack of a better word, > "macro" level, but also in terms of individual artists and musicians (myself > included)- wanting to see people push themselves further. That's one > positive thing I can say about this "scene" - is that over the past 8 years > that I've been involved, I've seen so many people doing this. Not sure if I'm understanding you - are you saying that the problem rests on the audience's expectations to see things develop? I admit, I have an expectation that "experimentalness" doesn't exempt music from the need to have some sense of coherence, 'art', personality or 'soul'. I get tired of discussions about "pushing the envelope". I think the envelope has already been pushed. We've called absolute silence music, as we have with the sound of jet engines. What's next - louder jet engines? Likewise, technology has allowed us to cut up and mangle sounds in oodles of ways, but the most 'cutting edge' technology and techniques often seem to not be coupled with a way to use them meaningfully. That's my "avant garde problem". Regarding looping specifically, I support it simply because it allows solo musicians to put on concerts where they don't have to train bandmates or have their ideas diluted by multiple personalities. You also don't have to use the same instrument lineup for each song, since there is no drummer whose feelings will be hurt if he's left out. It allows for a more personal style of music, without it sounding like a single solo instrument. Part of learning to use the gear is getting away from simple repetition, just like how part of learning guitar is figuring out how to not be stuck on power chords all the time. Matt From polly.moller at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 14:56:56 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:56:56 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Poster-size copy machine? Message-ID: <2eb068d40810161456s76ba1e9fp398db01a5116bae8@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to make copies of a large manuscript that I've written on really thick paper. And I'm finding that all the Kinko's shops no longer have those poster-size copiers where you put the original down on the glass. They've gone to a scanning unit that pulls the original through it. I've tried unsuccessfully to copy my score on that unit. The paper it's on is too thick to go through the opening. So before starting a phonathon of copy shops, I thought I'd ask the list if any of you know a place that still has a poster-size copy machine of the classic design. Thanks! Polly -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From polly.moller at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 16:02:37 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:02:37 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Crap. I'm too old. Message-ID: <2eb068d40810161602n82100b1y5db54d099466f43f@mail.gmail.com> But I'm sure some of y'all are not! P. The International Center for the Arts and the School of Music and Dance at San Francisco State University First Annual Symposium on Music in the 21st Century The ICA and SMD at San Francisco State University announce a composition competition as part of their First Annual Symposium on Music in the 21st Century. Selected compositions will be announced in mid-November, and will be performed during the Symposium, February 6-7, 2009 at San Francisco State. Performing artists will include the Afiara String Quartet, the Adorno Ensemble, the sfSound Group, and San Francisco State faculty. Composers who have not yet reached their 40th birthday by January 1, 2009 are invited to submit works in two categories: Category I: works for string quartet, with a maximum duration of 10 minutes; Category II: works for one to eight performers, with a maximum duration of 20 minutes, and within the following instrumentation (1 player each): flute/piccolo/alto flute, oboe/English horn, clarinet/bass clarinet, bassoon, horn, trumpet, trombone, tuba, piano, percussion, violin, viola, cello, contrabass, soprano voice. Works with electronics will be considered; for works involving computers composers must supply their own laptop computer with appropriate software. Composers may submit any number of scores. Each entry must include: Score. (all instances of composer's name removed, replaced by a pseudonym); CD recording, if available (composer's name replaced by pseudonym); application form, contact information, program note, and short biography, enclosed in an envelope with only the pseudonym on the outside. Each score submitted must be accompanied by a $25 application fee (check or money order payable to ICA 2009 Composition Competition), and a separate application form. Application forms are available at http://musicdance.sfsu.edu/compsymposium. Stamped self-addressed envelope if materials are to be returned. (Materials can only be returned to US addresses). The receipt deadline for materials is November 1, 2008. Send entries to: 2009 Composition Competition School of Music and Dance San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA 94132 Email inquiries rcalt at sfsu.edu Web information http://musicdance.sfsu.edu/compsymposium -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From 21grand at 21grand.org Thu Oct 16 16:13:27 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:27 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: Matt reacted: In the early 90's it was cool to depend on loops as the primary melodic/rhythmic content in electronic music. (Especially in repetitions that are multiples of 4.) -- As opposed to in a staggering amount of contemporary pop music? Seriously, whoever said that "looping" hadn't filtered down to the general public must not regularly hear music coming out of cars very often. That's precisely one of the "techniques" that the youngsters learn in all those music production classes funded by governments and foundations as a means of combatting violence, poverty, low self-esteem, and what have you. Matt again: Not sure if I'm understanding you - are you saying that the problem rests on the audience's expectations to see things develop? -- I was just talking about myself. Plenty of people seem perfectly happy to listen to highly repetitive music with little development. Sometimes I do too. More Matt: Likewise, technology has allowed us to cut up and mangle sounds in oodles of ways, but the most 'cutting edge' technology and techniques often seem to not be coupled with a way to use them meaningfully. That's my "avant garde problem". -- I also have this problem. And More Matt: Regarding looping specifically, I support it simply because it allows solo musicians to put on concerts where they don't have to train bandmates or have their ideas diluted by multiple personalities. -- One can also accomplish this by performing karaoke-style to a pre-recorded backing track, where you've pre-recorded all the instruments (analog or digital) yourself. I'm still not sold on the concept of "music involving pre-recorded repeating patterns" as a particularly compelling organizing principle, or more compelling than the theoretical "double bass pedal festival." sl From mattdavignon at gmail.com Thu Oct 16 21:18:46 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 21:18:46 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sarah - was all: >Whoa, look at me, I'm Matt, saying: > >In the early 90's it was cool to depend on loops as the primary > >melodic/rhythmic content in electronic music. (Especially in > >repetitions that are multiples of 4.) > > -- As opposed to in a staggering amount of contemporary pop music? > Seriously, whoever said that "looping" hadn't filtered down to the general > public must not regularly hear music coming out of cars very often. That's > precisely one of the "techniques" that the youngsters learn in all those > music production classes funded by governments and foundations as a means of > combatting violence, poverty, low self-esteem, and what have you. Well, yes. I was talking about both pop music and certain forms of 'experimental' music which were both informed by the "multiples of 4" principles of dance music from around that time. I guess it's still widely accepted in electronic pop music (including rap), and probably isn't going away anytime soon. I should add that many die hard members of the looping community discriminate between "using loops" and "looping". "Looping" involves recording the sounds from a live instrument into your sampler (while you're onstage), and creating loops from those samples. People who simply playback pre-recorded loops (whether the loops self-generated or not) don't often get to hang out in the looper's honeycomb hideout. Do I think looping is a novel enough technique to make a festival out of? Well, the 'looping' isn't what makes the festival appealing to me. As Kristin mentioned earlier in this discussion, it makes a nice arbitrary tie between the musicians in the festival. You get to have a wider array of musical styles in the festival, and pretty much a guaranteed mix between acoustic and electronic in every set. > -- One can also accomplish this by performing karaoke-style to a > pre-recorded backing track, where you've pre-recorded all the instruments > (analog or digital) yourself. I'm still not sold on the concept of "music > involving pre-recorded repeating patterns" as a particularly compelling > organizing principle, or more compelling than the theoretical "double bass > pedal festival." I'm making a grumpy "I'm not eating those brussels sprouts" face to all 3 of those concepts. Matt Matt From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Thu Oct 16 22:31:08 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:31:08 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: Grumpy Matt responded to Sarah: >>I'm making a grumpy "I'm not eating those brussels sprouts" face to all 3 of those concepts. Did someone say "Brussel sprouts?" http://www.ubu.com/outsiders/365/2003/075.shtml Please help me stop this analog, multiple of four, pre-recorded, repeating pattern, double-ecumenical loop. -- Michael of Henry-esque proportions. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:27 -0700 From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Matt reacted: In the early 90's it was cool to depend on loops as the primary melodic/rhythmic content in electronic music. (Especially in repetitions that are multiples of 4.) -- As opposed to in a staggering amount of contemporary pop music? Seriously, whoever said that "looping" hadn't filtered down to the general public must not regularly hear music coming out of cars very often. That's precisely one of the "techniques" that the youngsters learn in all those music production classes funded by governments and foundations as a means of combatting violence, poverty, low self-esteem, and what have you. Matt again: Not sure if I'm understanding you - are you saying that the problem rests on the audience's expectations to see things develop? -- I was just talking about myself. Plenty of people seem perfectly happy to listen to highly repetitive music with little development. Sometimes I do too. More Matt: Likewise, technology has allowed us to cut up and mangle sounds in oodles of ways, but the most 'cutting edge' technology and techniques often seem to not be coupled with a way to use them meaningfully. That's my "avant garde problem". -- I also have this problem. And More Matt: Regarding looping specifically, I support it simply because it allows solo musicians to put on concerts where they don't have to train bandmates or have their ideas diluted by multiple personalities. -- One can also accomplish this by performing karaoke-style to a pre-recorded backing track, where you've pre-recorded all the instruments (analog or digital) yourself. I'm still not sold on the concept of "music involving pre-recorded repeating patterns" as a particularly compelling organizing principle, or more compelling than the theoretical "double bass pedal festival." sl ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 15 **************************************** From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Thu Oct 16 22:54:41 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:54:41 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > http://www.ubu.com/outsiders/365/2003/075.shtml > > Please help me stop this analog, multiple of four, pre-recorded, > repeating pattern, double-ecumenical loop. I guess Crystal Bernard's pro-abstinence work in "Slumber Party Massacre II" now makes a lot of sense. . . mg > -- Michael of Henry-esque proportions. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:13:27 -0700 > From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Matt reacted: > In the early 90's it was cool to depend on loops as the primary > melodic/rhythmic content in electronic music. (Especially in > repetitions that are multiples of 4.) > > -- As opposed to in a staggering amount of contemporary pop music? > Seriously, whoever said that "looping" hadn't filtered down to the > general > public must not regularly hear music coming out of cars very often. > That's > precisely one of the "techniques" that the youngsters learn in all > those > music production classes funded by governments and foundations as a > means of > combatting violence, poverty, low self-esteem, and what have you. > > Matt again: Not sure if I'm understanding you - are you saying that > the > problem rests on the audience's expectations to see things develop? > > -- I was just talking about myself. Plenty of people seem perfectly > happy > to listen to highly repetitive music with little development. > Sometimes I do > too. > > More Matt: Likewise, technology has allowed us to cut up and > mangle sounds in oodles of ways, but the most 'cutting edge' > technology and techniques often seem to not be coupled with a way to > use them meaningfully. That's my "avant garde problem". > > -- I also have this problem. > > And More Matt: Regarding looping specifically, I support it simply > because > it allows solo musicians to put on concerts where they don't have to > train > bandmates or have their ideas diluted by multiple personalities. > > -- One can also accomplish this by performing karaoke-style to a > pre-recorded backing track, where you've pre-recorded all the > instruments > (analog or digital) yourself. I'm still not sold on the concept of > "music > involving pre-recorded repeating patterns" as a particularly > compelling > organizing principle, or more compelling than the theoretical > "double bass > pedal festival." > > sl > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 15 > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 17 00:22:08 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:22:08 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: Matt stated: I'm making a grumpy "I'm not eating those brussels sprouts" face to all 3 of those concepts. -- I'm not a big fan of vegetables, but I'm quite fond of brussel sprouts. sl From slusser at pixar.com Fri Oct 17 00:28:03 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:28:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2008, at 12:22 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > -- I'm not a big fan of vegetables, but I'm quite fond of brussel > sprouts. Although it's kind of a chain, if you like frog balls, you can make a meal of Pasta Pomodoro's brussel sprout dish. Best thing on the menu. From weaselw at juno.com Fri Oct 17 00:56:38 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:56:38 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: <20081017.005642.3380.44.weaselw@juno.com> my wife got sick eating brussel sprouts the other day because they tasted so good. she rules. what is "louping"? ww On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 00:28:03 -0700 David Slusser writes: > On Oct 17, 2008, at 12:22 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: > > > > -- I'm not a big fan of vegetables, but I'm quite fond of brussel > > > sprouts. > > Although it's kind of a chain, if you like frog balls, you can make > a > meal > of Pasta Pomodoro's brussel sprout dish. Best thing on the menu. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on earning your associates degrees. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3l8StAdpU7gbeMpJC1UllzNk0ilASQCxzsnkc43d30uiDfRs/ From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 17 01:55:42 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:55:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows Message-ID: WW Wrote: what is "louping"? -- repetitive patterns on congas run through effects pedals in the music of Fuckwolf. sl From gcremaschi at hotmail.com Fri Oct 17 05:52:26 2008 From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:52:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > but the most 'cutting edge' technology and techniques often seem > to not be coupled with a way to use them meaningfully. If you ever want to see this idea taken to it's absurd extreme, hang out at a NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) conference sometime.... -George _________________________________________________________________ When your life is on the go?take your life with you. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 17 12:46:35 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:46:35 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! In-Reply-To: <101720081858.26868.48F8E04600095D79000068F4220073483005010196079D0104@comcast.net> Message-ID: Apologies for the politics, but this is fairly important. While I take issue with some of the policies and priorities of the City of Oakland's Cultural Funding Program, 21 Grand has received funding from this program in the past, as have several people on this list. Oakland has a major budget deficit and the city council is considering some drastic cuts, including the cultural funding program. Their budget is woefully small compared to SF's Grants for the Arts as it is. If you live in Oakland, especially in city council districts where the councilmember has stated they'd cut the program - and it sounds like they're considering cutting it entirely, please consider contacting your city councilmember and letting them know that this would suck. If you live in the following districts, your friendly city council rep wants to cut the cultural funding program: District 2 (east side of the lake), District 4, District 5 (fruitvale), District 7. So far, there are only 3 city council people that don't want to cut the program, representing: district 1 (temescal/north oakland), district 3 (uptown/west oakland/adams point), and District 6. That's 3 out of 8. Majority rules. More info below, including "talking points." Thanks, sl ------ Forwarded Message From: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:58:14 +0000 To: Subject: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Attend the next City Council Meeting! Hi everyone. Please forward this urgent - and lengthy email - to as many people as possible. Funding for the Cultural Arts and Marketing Department is on the chopping block and will be voted on by the Oakland City Council this Tuesday, October 21. The meeting begins at 6pm and this topic is currently Item 19 on the Agenda, so it could be a long night. Grant funding is in jeopardy, as are all of the staff positions. This is a serious threat to a thriving but already under-funded community. We do understand that the City's finances are in a dire situation, but the fact of the matter is that the cultural arts department has historically borne more than its share of cuts and now represents only .4% (4/10 of 1%) of the overall city budget, yet serves 6,273 children and youth through the art in the schools program (most of whom would not have access to arts without these programs), and another 957,650 people through performances, events, etc. Not only will department staff lose their jobs: staff an d teachers in the already-fragile arts sector will also lose jobs. The arts are not a luxury! Children and youth who participate in arts programs and learn positive ways to express themselves are less likely to engage in unsafe or criminal activities. Neighborhoods with visual and performing arts venues bring in $$s to the local economy, help prevent crime and violence by "keeping the lights on", and add to the overall quality of life in our city. If you are an artist, educator, work for an arts organization, enjoy arts events, have a kid in an arts program in one of Oakland's schools or community centers, or have friends that are artists, please join me in making our voices heard. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! There are currently three council members who are opposed to cutting arts funding: Nancy Nadel, Jane Brunner, and Desley Brooks. All other council members have indicated that they will vote to cut the program. Please don't let this happen!! Contact your council person immediately (preferably before Monday) and let them know that cutting the arts program is unacceptable. Also, let the three council members that support the arts know how much you appreciate their support. Below is contact info for each of the district council members: District 1, Jane Brunner, jbrunner at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7001; District 2, Pat Kernighan,pkernighan at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7002; District 3, Nancy Nadel, nnadel at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7003; District 4, Jean Quan, jquan at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7004; District 5, Ignacio de la Fuente. idelafuente at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7005; District 6, Desley Brooks, dbrooks at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7006; District 7, Larry Reid, lreid at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7007 At-Large, Henry Chang, Jr., cityochang at aol.com Please forward this to your staff, board, friends, students, their parents, your mailing list, etc. It is our responsibility to make our voices heard - and to let the officials know that we represent a larger portion of the public than they think! Here's a link to the evite: http://www.evite.com/pages/invite/viewInvite.jsp?event=ACFFSJPPTIYVQCGKBKXY& invi teId=PBNDQUYBQENJDTPITZEK&showPreview=false&x=15069028 I know that you are all really busy and I appreciate your time. Thank you in advance for getting involved, Lori Zook, Acting-Chair City of Oakland Cultural Affairs Commission RECAP of three things YOU can do to make a difference: 1) Forward this to your people 2) Contact your council member and let them know how important the arts are to you - a voting member of their district 3) Come to the 10/21 city council meeting Thanks again! ------ End of Forwarded Message From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri Oct 17 13:53:30 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:53:30 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! In-Reply-To: References: <101720081858.26868.48F8E04600095D79000068F4220073483005010196079D0104@comcast.net> Message-ID: i did it, i just wrote a letter, if i don't get a response i am going to do it again, k On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Apologies for the politics, but this is fairly important. > > While I take issue with some of the policies and priorities of the City of > Oakland's Cultural Funding Program, 21 Grand has received funding from this > program in the past, as have several people on this list. Oakland has a > major budget deficit and the city council is considering some drastic cuts, > including the cultural funding program. Their budget is woefully small > compared to SF's Grants for the Arts as it is. > > If you live in Oakland, especially in city council districts where the > councilmember has stated they'd cut the program - and it sounds like they're > considering cutting it entirely, please consider contacting your city > councilmember and letting them know that this would suck. > > If you live in the following districts, your friendly city council rep wants > to cut the cultural funding program: District 2 (east side of the lake), > District 4, District 5 (fruitvale), District 7. > > So far, there are only 3 city council people that don't want to cut the > program, representing: district 1 (temescal/north oakland), district 3 > (uptown/west oakland/adams point), and District 6. > > That's 3 out of 8. Majority rules. > > More info below, including "talking points." > > Thanks, > > sl > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: > Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:58:14 +0000 > To: > Subject: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Attend the next City > Council Meeting! > > Hi everyone. > > Please forward this urgent - and lengthy email - to as many people as > possible. > Funding for the Cultural Arts and Marketing Department is on the chopping > block > and will be voted on by the Oakland City Council this Tuesday, October 21. > The > meeting begins at 6pm and this topic is currently Item 19 on the Agenda, so > it > could be a long night. Grant funding is in jeopardy, as are all of the staff > positions. This is a serious threat to a thriving but already under-funded > community. We do understand that the City's finances are in a dire > situation, > but the fact of the matter is that the cultural arts department has > historically > borne more than its share of cuts and now represents only .4% (4/10 of 1%) > of > the overall city budget, yet serves 6,273 children and youth through the art > in > the schools program (most of whom would not have access to arts without > these > programs), and another 957,650 people through performances, events, etc. > Not > only will department staff lose their jobs: staff an > d teachers in the already-fragile arts sector will also lose jobs. The arts > are not a > luxury! Children and youth who participate in arts programs and learn > positive > ways to express themselves are less likely to engage in unsafe or criminal > activities. Neighborhoods with visual and performing arts venues bring in > $$s > to the local economy, help prevent crime and violence by "keeping the lights > on", and add to the overall quality of life in our city. > > If you are an artist, educator, work for an arts organization, enjoy arts > events, have a kid in an arts program in one of Oakland's schools or > community > centers, or have friends that are artists, please join me in making our > voices > heard. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! > > There are currently three council members who are opposed to cutting arts > funding: Nancy Nadel, Jane Brunner, and Desley Brooks. All other council > members > have indicated that they will vote to cut the program. Please don't let this > happen!! Contact your council person immediately (preferably before Monday) > and let them know that cutting the arts program is unacceptable. Also, let > the three council members that support the arts know how much you appreciate > their support. Below is contact info for each of the district council > members: > > District 1, Jane Brunner, jbrunner at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7001; > District 2, Pat Kernighan,pkernighan at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7002; > District 3, Nancy Nadel, nnadel at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7003; > District 4, Jean Quan, jquan at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7004; > District 5, Ignacio de la Fuente. idelafuente at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7005; > District 6, Desley Brooks, dbrooks at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7006; > District 7, Larry Reid, lreid at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7007 > At-Large, Henry Chang, Jr., cityochang at aol.com > > Please forward this to your staff, board, friends, students, their parents, > your > mailing list, etc. It is our responsibility to make our voices heard - and > to > let the officials know that we represent a larger portion of the public than > they think! > > Here's a link to the evite: > http://www.evite.com/pages/invite/viewInvite.jsp?event=ACFFSJPPTIYVQCGKBKXY& > invi > teId=PBNDQUYBQENJDTPITZEK&showPreview=false&x=15069028 > > I know that you are all really busy and I appreciate your time. > > Thank you in advance for getting involved, > > Lori Zook, Acting-Chair > City of Oakland Cultural Affairs Commission > > RECAP of three things YOU can do to make a difference: > 1) Forward this to your people > 2) Contact your council member and let them know how important the arts are > to > you - a voting member of their district > 3) Come to the 10/21 city council meeting > > Thanks again! > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.kristinmiltner.net www.myspace.com/miltnerunit http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html From miltnerunit at gmail.com Fri Oct 17 13:54:15 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:54:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! In-Reply-To: References: <101720081858.26868.48F8E04600095D79000068F4220073483005010196079D0104@comcast.net> Message-ID: ssssssssssssssssssausage. sorry folks, meant to just respond to Sarah On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 1:53 PM, kristin miltner wrote: > i did it, i just wrote a letter, if i don't get a response i am going > to do it again, > > k > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >> Apologies for the politics, but this is fairly important. >> >> While I take issue with some of the policies and priorities of the City of >> Oakland's Cultural Funding Program, 21 Grand has received funding from this >> program in the past, as have several people on this list. Oakland has a >> major budget deficit and the city council is considering some drastic cuts, >> including the cultural funding program. Their budget is woefully small >> compared to SF's Grants for the Arts as it is. >> >> If you live in Oakland, especially in city council districts where the >> councilmember has stated they'd cut the program - and it sounds like they're >> considering cutting it entirely, please consider contacting your city >> councilmember and letting them know that this would suck. >> >> If you live in the following districts, your friendly city council rep wants >> to cut the cultural funding program: District 2 (east side of the lake), >> District 4, District 5 (fruitvale), District 7. >> >> So far, there are only 3 city council people that don't want to cut the >> program, representing: district 1 (temescal/north oakland), district 3 >> (uptown/west oakland/adams point), and District 6. >> >> That's 3 out of 8. Majority rules. >> >> More info below, including "talking points." >> >> Thanks, >> >> sl >> >> ------ Forwarded Message >> From: >> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:58:14 +0000 >> To: >> Subject: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Attend the next City >> Council Meeting! >> >> Hi everyone. >> >> Please forward this urgent - and lengthy email - to as many people as >> possible. >> Funding for the Cultural Arts and Marketing Department is on the chopping >> block >> and will be voted on by the Oakland City Council this Tuesday, October 21. >> The >> meeting begins at 6pm and this topic is currently Item 19 on the Agenda, so >> it >> could be a long night. Grant funding is in jeopardy, as are all of the staff >> positions. This is a serious threat to a thriving but already under-funded >> community. We do understand that the City's finances are in a dire >> situation, >> but the fact of the matter is that the cultural arts department has >> historically >> borne more than its share of cuts and now represents only .4% (4/10 of 1%) >> of >> the overall city budget, yet serves 6,273 children and youth through the art >> in >> the schools program (most of whom would not have access to arts without >> these >> programs), and another 957,650 people through performances, events, etc. >> Not >> only will department staff lose their jobs: staff an >> d teachers in the already-fragile arts sector will also lose jobs. The arts >> are not a >> luxury! Children and youth who participate in arts programs and learn >> positive >> ways to express themselves are less likely to engage in unsafe or criminal >> activities. Neighborhoods with visual and performing arts venues bring in >> $$s >> to the local economy, help prevent crime and violence by "keeping the lights >> on", and add to the overall quality of life in our city. >> >> If you are an artist, educator, work for an arts organization, enjoy arts >> events, have a kid in an arts program in one of Oakland's schools or >> community >> centers, or have friends that are artists, please join me in making our >> voices >> heard. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! >> >> There are currently three council members who are opposed to cutting arts >> funding: Nancy Nadel, Jane Brunner, and Desley Brooks. All other council >> members >> have indicated that they will vote to cut the program. Please don't let this >> happen!! Contact your council person immediately (preferably before Monday) >> and let them know that cutting the arts program is unacceptable. Also, let >> the three council members that support the arts know how much you appreciate >> their support. Below is contact info for each of the district council >> members: >> >> District 1, Jane Brunner, jbrunner at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7001; >> District 2, Pat Kernighan,pkernighan at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7002; >> District 3, Nancy Nadel, nnadel at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7003; >> District 4, Jean Quan, jquan at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7004; >> District 5, Ignacio de la Fuente. idelafuente at oaklandnet.com, (510) >> 238-7005; >> District 6, Desley Brooks, dbrooks at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7006; >> District 7, Larry Reid, lreid at oaklandnet.com, (510) 238-7007 >> At-Large, Henry Chang, Jr., cityochang at aol.com >> >> Please forward this to your staff, board, friends, students, their parents, >> your >> mailing list, etc. It is our responsibility to make our voices heard - and >> to >> let the officials know that we represent a larger portion of the public than >> they think! >> >> Here's a link to the evite: >> http://www.evite.com/pages/invite/viewInvite.jsp?event=ACFFSJPPTIYVQCGKBKXY& >> invi >> teId=PBNDQUYBQENJDTPITZEK&showPreview=false&x=15069028 >> >> I know that you are all really busy and I appreciate your time. >> >> Thank you in advance for getting involved, >> >> Lori Zook, Acting-Chair >> City of Oakland Cultural Affairs Commission >> >> RECAP of three things YOU can do to make a difference: >> 1) Forward this to your people >> 2) Contact your council member and let them know how important the arts are >> to >> you - a voting member of their district >> 3) Come to the 10/21 city council meeting >> >> Thanks again! >> >> ------ End of Forwarded Message >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> > > > > -- > kristin miltner > audio professional > www.kristinmiltner.net > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner > http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.kristinmiltner.net www.myspace.com/miltnerunit http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html From letucepry at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 00:14:42 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows -- update... Message-ID: <930401.29040.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >I don't know if it's an interesting problem to solve so much as just >that people need a kick in the pants to keep them from coming to the >conclusion that having an ebow automatically = going "eee" and building >up textures atmospherically for 20 minutes. We could be a little tougher >on each other. OK,? I saw 7 acts tonight and only 2 ebows...both by guys who could fit into the "Frippertronics" stereotype...one of which started his set off with a loop that was in 13/8, and no rap acts...there was also?one bassist that made me think... "Heck, he could get a job demo-ing loopers at NAMM..." but to be fair, I only saw the "headliners" and "featured artists" (got to say that was TACKY putting that stuff on the email that went out, as well as calling some of the artists "newbies"...also several artist featured on Thursday flier as "the best of the festival"...I'm not sure what that means, or if the headliners just fit into the organizer's idea of what to feature at the festival??? and if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing???) >The looper festival sounds sort of neat in that 'very santa cruz' way >but not really musically progressive although I wasn't there so maybe >the couple of creative acts made up for all the rest.. or maybe I'm >being too judgmental. Yes, you probably are being too judgemental, almost every act I saw tonight "could compete" with other acts that are billed as creative music, I genuinely liked two...I think that rate is pretty comparable with other creative music shows that I have gone to blind (of course, usually if I research the act I'm going to see, the rate is MUCH higher...)...As for the Santa Cruz remark, there was an electronic hand drummer, who was using hand drum sounds...But the whole thing wasn't very Santa Cruz (IMHO)... lettuce From highhorse at mhorse.com Sun Oct 19 11:10:27 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:10:27 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows -- update... In-Reply-To: <930401.29040.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <930401.29040.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48FB7813.7060209@mhorse.com> I was there last night and saw about seven acts as well. There was some pretty interesting music going on, including James Bailey from Toronto who processed some handheld bent electronics into a wonderful nontonal mess, Rick Walker who played a literal floorful of orange plastic objects, and Krispen Hartung who played free jazz guitar processed through a laptop (w/ the aforementioned hand drummer). The ambient Ebow thing barely reared its head. Tonight on the schedule, there's a theremin player who does fully composed pieces, a mandolinist from Japan, a songwriter from Germany, and a Sunn-esque noise drone dude from San Francisco (plus my guitar/oud cassette looping duo :-) ). I think there's a fair chance for the interesting stuff to continue. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > OK, I saw 7 acts tonight and only 2 ebows...both by guys who could fit into the > "Frippertronics" stereotype...one of which started his set off with a loop > that was in 13/8, and no rap acts...there was also one bassist that made me think... > "Heck, he could get a job demo-ing loopers at NAMM..." From letucepry at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 11:45:15 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows -- update... Message-ID: <69505.47274.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I agree...James Bailey was definitely worth any discomfort that may have been caused by any ebowing that I may have experienced... ? lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Daryl Shawn To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 11:10:27 AM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Bay tape loop improv shows -- update... I was there last night and saw about seven acts as well. There was some pretty interesting music going on, including James Bailey from Toronto who processed some handheld bent electronics into a wonderful nontonal mess, Rick Walker who played a literal floorful of orange plastic objects, and Krispen Hartung who played free jazz guitar processed through a laptop (w/ the aforementioned hand drummer). The ambient Ebow thing barely reared its head. Tonight on the schedule, there's a theremin player who does fully composed pieces, a mandolinist from Japan, a songwriter from Germany, and a Sunn-esque noise drone dude from San Francisco (plus my guitar/oud cassette looping duo :-) ). I think there's a fair chance for the interesting stuff to continue. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > OK,? I saw 7 acts tonight and only 2 ebows...both by guys who could fit into the > "Frippertronics" stereotype...one of which started his set off with a loop > that was in 13/8, and no rap acts...there was also one bassist that made me think... > "Heck, he could get a job demo-ing loopers at NAMM..." _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Sun Oct 19 12:12:50 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <125039.51953.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Folks, Please don't go to sleep on this issue. This fund has allowed many of us in the community to receive funding for our work - lots of people on this list have received funding directly or indirectly. I have posted a copy of the letter I sent to all of the people on the list below. If you can't think of what to say, just cut and paste this missive and add or subtract anything I wrote to personalize it. I'm currently preparing a grant proposal to this fund that would provide funding for concerts at the school where I teach. If I receive this grant, it would mean there would be money for concerts (that you could play on) at the new space at the Fox Theater (new home of Oakland School for the Arts). Wanna gig? Well, take five minutes of your precious time to speak out for this fund. PLEASE consider distributing this email - our work depends on it. PG Dear Jane Brunner, I am writing to encourage you not to cut funding for the Oakland Cultural Arts Fund. This important fund has offered desperately needed dollars to keep the arts alive in Oakland. It has fuelled fine artistic activity in our fair city and offered children in our Oakland schools exposure to great artists and musicians. To do without it would hurt Oakland schools, various related education programs for the arts, numerous community-based projects, cultural events and not to mention, the artists themselves who live and work in Oakland that depend on what little funding is available to us. Please consider keeping this important fund alive and well in Oakland. Your support is desperately needed by many. Phillip Greenlief --- On Fri, 10/17/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! > To: "Banewmus List" > Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 12:46 PM > Apologies for the politics, but this is fairly important. > > While I take issue with some of the policies and priorities > of the City of > Oakland's Cultural Funding Program, 21 Grand has > received funding from this > program in the past, as have several people on this list. > Oakland has a > major budget deficit and the city council is considering > some drastic cuts, > including the cultural funding program. Their budget is > woefully small > compared to SF's Grants for the Arts as it is. > > If you live in Oakland, especially in city council > districts where the > councilmember has stated they'd cut the program - and > it sounds like they're > considering cutting it entirely, please consider contacting > your city > councilmember and letting them know that this would suck. > > If you live in the following districts, your friendly city > council rep wants > to cut the cultural funding program: District 2 (east side > of the lake), > District 4, District 5 (fruitvale), District 7. > > So far, there are only 3 city council people that don't > want to cut the > program, representing: district 1 (temescal/north oakland), > district 3 > (uptown/west oakland/adams point), and District 6. > > That's 3 out of 8. Majority rules. > > More info below, including "talking points." > > Thanks, > > sl > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: > Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:58:14 +0000 > To: > Subject: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Attend > the next City > Council Meeting! > > Hi everyone. > > Please forward this urgent - and lengthy email - to as many > people as > possible. > Funding for the Cultural Arts and Marketing Department is > on the chopping > block > and will be voted on by the Oakland City Council this > Tuesday, October 21. > The > meeting begins at 6pm and this topic is currently Item 19 > on the Agenda, so > it > could be a long night. Grant funding is in jeopardy, as are > all of the staff > positions. This is a serious threat to a thriving but > already under-funded > community. We do understand that the City's finances > are in a dire > situation, > but the fact of the matter is that the cultural arts > department has > historically > borne more than its share of cuts and now represents only > .4% (4/10 of 1%) > of > the overall city budget, yet serves 6,273 children and > youth through the art > in > the schools program (most of whom would not have access to > arts without > these > programs), and another 957,650 people through > performances, events, etc. > Not > only will department staff lose their jobs: staff an > d teachers in the already-fragile arts sector will also > lose jobs. The arts > are not a > luxury! Children and youth who participate in arts > programs and learn > positive > ways to express themselves are less likely to engage in > unsafe or criminal > activities. Neighborhoods with visual and performing arts > venues bring in > $$s > to the local economy, help prevent crime and violence by > "keeping the lights > on", and add to the overall quality of life in our > city. > > If you are an artist, educator, work for an arts > organization, enjoy arts > events, have a kid in an arts program in one of > Oakland's schools or > community > centers, or have friends that are artists, please join me > in making our > voices > heard. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! > > There are currently three council members who are opposed > to cutting arts > funding: Nancy Nadel, Jane Brunner, and Desley Brooks. All > other council > members > have indicated that they will vote to cut the program. > Please don't let this > happen!! Contact your council person immediately > (preferably before Monday) > and let them know that cutting the arts program is > unacceptable. Also, let > the three council members that support the arts know how > much you appreciate > their support. Below is contact info for each of the > district council > members: > > District 1, Jane Brunner, jbrunner at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7001; > District 2, Pat Kernighan,pkernighan at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7002; > District 3, Nancy Nadel, nnadel at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7003; > District 4, Jean Quan, jquan at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7004; > District 5, Ignacio de la Fuente. > idelafuente at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7005; > District 6, Desley Brooks, dbrooks at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7006; > District 7, Larry Reid, lreid at oaklandnet.com, (510) > 238-7007 > At-Large, Henry Chang, Jr., cityochang at aol.com > > Please forward this to your staff, board, friends, > students, their parents, > your > mailing list, etc. It is our responsibility to make our > voices heard - and > to > let the officials know that we represent a larger portion > of the public than > they think! > > Here's a link to the evite: > http://www.evite.com/pages/invite/viewInvite.jsp?event=ACFFSJPPTIYVQCGKBKXY& > invi > teId=PBNDQUYBQENJDTPITZEK&showPreview=false&x=15069028 > > I know that you are all really busy and I appreciate your > time. > > Thank you in advance for getting involved, > > Lori Zook, Acting-Chair > City of Oakland Cultural Affairs Commission > > RECAP of three things YOU can do to make a difference: > 1) Forward this to your people > 2) Contact your council member and let them know how > important the arts are > to > you - a voting member of their district > 3) Come to the 10/21 city council meeting > > Thanks again! > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Sun Oct 19 13:19:26 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:19:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Message-ID: Phillip reminded me of an important aspect of this that in my natural self-centeredness I forgot. A very significant portion of the cultural funding funds go to art programs in schools. Even if you're like me, and don't have kids and will do just about anything not to acquire them, and have a generational resentment of the current attention (esp in financial terms) paid to them that far exceeds that which was expended on those of us born in the early - mid 70s -- teaching music and art to kids provides a decent living to a lot of folks, and is probably far more rewarding than a job in shipping and receiving. There's also an online petition you can sign here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Oakland_Arts_Funding/index.html sl Phillip wrote: Hey Folks, Please don't go to sleep on this issue. This fund has allowed many of us in the community to receive funding for our work - lots of people on this list have received funding directly or indirectly. I have posted a copy of the letter I sent to all of the people on the list below. If you can't think of what to say, just cut and paste this missive and add or subtract anything I wrote to personalize it. I'm currently preparing a grant proposal to this fund that would provide funding for concerts at the school where I teach. If I receive this grant, it would mean there would be money for concerts (that you could play on) at the new space at the Fox Theater (new home of Oakland School for the Arts). Wanna gig? Well, take five minutes of your precious time to speak out for this fund. PLEASE consider distributing this email - our work depends on it. PG Dear Jane Brunner, I am writing to encourage you not to cut funding for the Oakland Cultural Arts Fund. This important fund has offered desperately needed dollars to keep the arts alive in Oakland. It has fuelled fine artistic activity in our fair city and offered children in our Oakland schools exposure to great artists and musicians. To do without it would hurt Oakland schools, various related education programs for the arts, numerous community-based projects, cultural events and not to mention, the artists themselves who live and work in Oakland that depend on what little funding is available to us. Please consider keeping this important fund alive and well in Oakland. Your support is desperately needed by many. Phillip Greenlief From invite+pvkih~k_ at facebookmail.com Mon Oct 20 16:31:00 2008 From: invite+pvkih~k_ at facebookmail.com (Kristian Aspelin) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:31:00 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile Message-ID: <645ae57946809cacd9d1d31a21568434@localhost.localdomain> Hi Bay, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Kristian To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=588311677&k=66MZXX5XU46M5GBIUDWZT4&r From miltnerunit at gmail.com Mon Oct 20 16:51:33 2008 From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:51:33 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i just got this response: Dear Kristin: Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I understand that funding for the arts in Oakland matters to you and I am doing what I can to address your concerns. On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > Phillip reminded me of an important aspect of this that in my natural > self-centeredness I forgot. > > A very significant portion of the cultural funding funds go to art programs > in schools. Even if you're like me, and don't have kids and will do just > about anything not to acquire them, and have a generational resentment of > the current attention (esp in financial terms) paid to them that far exceeds > that which was expended on those of us born in the early - mid 70s -- > teaching music and art to kids provides a decent living to a lot of folks, > and is probably far more rewarding than a job in shipping and receiving. > > There's also an online petition you can sign here: > http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Oakland_Arts_Funding/index.html > > sl > > Phillip wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > Please don't go to sleep on this issue. This fund has allowed many of us in > the community to receive funding for our work - lots of people on this list > have received funding directly or indirectly. > > I have posted a copy of the letter I sent to all of the people on the list > below. If you can't think of what to say, just cut and paste this missive > and add or subtract anything I wrote to personalize it. > > I'm currently preparing a grant proposal to this fund that would provide > funding for concerts at the school where I teach. If I receive this grant, > it would mean there would be money for concerts (that you could play on) at > the new space at the Fox Theater (new home of Oakland School for the Arts). > Wanna gig? Well, take five minutes of your precious time to speak out for > this fund. > > PLEASE consider distributing this email - our work depends on it. > > PG > > > Dear Jane Brunner, > > I am writing to encourage you not to cut funding for the Oakland Cultural > Arts Fund. This important fund has offered desperately needed dollars to > keep the arts alive in Oakland. It has fuelled fine artistic activity in our > fair city and offered children in our Oakland schools exposure to great > artists and musicians. To do without it would hurt Oakland schools, various > related education programs for the arts, numerous community-based projects, > cultural events and not to mention, the artists themselves who live and work > in Oakland that depend on what little funding is available to us. > > Please consider keeping this important fund alive and well in Oakland. Your > support is desperately needed by many. > > Phillip Greenlief > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- kristin miltner audio professional www.kristinmiltner.net www.myspace.com/miltnerunit http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html From kaspelin72 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 20 17:28:18 2008 From: kaspelin72 at yahoo.com (Kristian Aspelin) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile - Please ignore this message In-Reply-To: <645ae57946809cacd9d1d31a21568434@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <651594.33557.qm@web52601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> My deepest apologies that this was sent to this site.? That was not my intent at all and I am very sorry that this happened.? Thank you.? --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Kristian Aspelin wrote: From: Kristian Aspelin Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 4:31 PM Hi Bay, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Kristian To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=588311677&k=66MZXX5XU46M5GBIUDWZT4&r _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From weaselw at juno.com Mon Oct 20 17:50:05 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:50:05 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile - Please ignore this message Message-ID: <20081020.175010.3380.159.weaselw@juno.com> ha ha ha lmao, imho, lol, tff, etc. ww On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Kristian Aspelin writes: > My deepest apologies that this was sent to this site. That was not > my intent at all and I am very sorry that this happened. Thank > you. > > --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Kristian Aspelin > wrote: > > From: Kristian Aspelin > Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > > Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 4:31 PM > > Hi Bay, > > I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and > events and > I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to > join > Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. > > Thanks, > Kristian > > To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?iX8311677&kfMZXX5XU46M5GBIUDWZT4&r > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > ____________________________________________________________ Click here for free information on how to reduce your debt by filing for bankruptcy. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nfvZqtcRR1Ptsx850E11wyHpQgub4PQknz36zsH6Gp0KVky/ From kaspelin72 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 20 18:15:58 2008 From: kaspelin72 at yahoo.com (Kristian Aspelin) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile - Please ignore this message In-Reply-To: <20081020.175010.3380.159.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <454047.90690.qm@web52605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks, Weasel - I feel a lot better now.? I guess you really aren't my bff.? --- On Mon, 10/20/08, weasel walter wrote: From: weasel walter Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile - Please ignore this message To: kaspelin72 at yahoo.com, newmusic at music.mills.edu Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 5:50 PM ha ha ha lmao, imho, lol, tff, etc. ww On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Kristian Aspelin writes: > My deepest apologies that this was sent to this site. That was not > my intent at all and I am very sorry that this happened. Thank > you. > > --- On Mon, 10/20/08, Kristian Aspelin > wrote: > > From: Kristian Aspelin > Subject: [NewMusic] Check out my Facebook profile > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > > Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 4:31 PM > > Hi Bay, > > I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and > events and > I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to > join > Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. > > Thanks, > Kristian > > To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: > http://www.facebook.com/p.php?iX8311677&kfMZXX5XU46M5GBIUDWZT4&r > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > ____________________________________________________________ Looking for a romantic getaway? Click now for amazing cruise deals. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nL6YKV8uALBP4PwxkMs1sCoPPmulgrMAGe8hqEg0llafYpM/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From michaelz at zoka.com Wed Oct 22 10:42:32 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:42:32 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Gino in the Wire Message-ID: It hardly makes up for the MacArthur snubbing, but the Wire has a nice full-page piece on Signore Robair in the November issue. It even put his name on the cover. . . MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From polly.moller at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 10:44:17 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 10:44:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Gino in the Wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eb068d40810221044q4d5925edka301cc39553c10c9@mail.gmail.com> And the photo is pretty awesome. I didn't take it, of course. :) P. On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Michael Zelner wrote: > It hardly makes up for the MacArthur snubbing, but the Wire has a > nice full-page piece on Signore Robair in the November issue. > > > > It even put his name on the cover. . . > > > > MZ > > > > > --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- > Michael Zelner > ---Oakland CA USA------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From polly.moller at gmail.com Wed Oct 22 11:00:26 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:00:26 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Gino in the Wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eb068d40810221100o777c78e0wd8f024f80a1b1f11@mail.gmail.com> And you can even download mp3s of his tunes from that page. Serious rock star treatment. :) P. On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Michael Zelner wrote: > It hardly makes up for the MacArthur snubbing, but the Wire has a > nice full-page piece on Signore Robair in the November issue. > > > From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 22 12:55:19 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:55:19 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Message-ID: It appears that the cultural funding program was not cut, according to an article in today's Chronicle. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/22/BA5F13M07D.DTL Granted, it would have been a retarded thing to do as funds had already been awarded and probably a majority of artists and organizations had already signed and returned their contracts. But I've learned never to underestimate the stupidity of politicians. sl From suki at zoka.com Wed Oct 22 13:27:56 2008 From: suki at zoka.com (Suki O'Kane) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:27:56 +0000 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Message-ID: <20081022202756.3508.qmail@zoka.com> retarded, mmmmmmm, Yes good news: They kept the $$ for grants, but 0 no bad news: Removed the funding for program staff (2 positions and, I think, can't decipher, their budget/finance person who actually plugs in the grants payments) After a round of Huzzah Cuzzah Wha, a new era of [e]fficiency, For the gamblers: the FY09-10 grant cycle was announced this week. Applications for individual artist, project and arts in education grants online at http://www.oaklandculturalarts.org. -s ------- Original Message ------- On 10/22/2008 12:55 PM Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: It appears that the cultural funding program was not cut, according to an article in today's Chronicle. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/22/BA5F13M07D.DTL Granted, it would have been a retarded thing to do as funds had already been awarded and probably a majority of artists and organizations had already signed and returned their contracts. But I've learned never to underestimate the stupidity of politicians. sl _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From letucepry at yahoo.com Wed Oct 22 17:42:40 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! Message-ID: <190325.36121.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> retarded, mmmmmmm Homer Simpson XML object...hahahahahahaha!!! retarded, mmmmmmm what satisfies a nerd... lettuce ----- Original Message ---- From: Suki O'Kane To: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 1:27:56 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] FW: URGENT - SAVE ARTS FUNDING IN OAKLAND!!!! retarded, mmmmmmm, Yes good news: They kept the $$ for grants, but 0 no bad news: Removed the funding for program staff (2 positions and, I think, can't decipher, their budget/finance person who actually plugs in the grants payments) After a round of Huzzah Cuzzah Wha, a new era of [e]fficiency, For the gamblers: the FY09-10 grant cycle was announced this week. Applications for individual artist, project and arts in education grants online at http://www.oaklandculturalarts.org. -s ------- Original Message ------- On 10/22/2008 12:55 PM Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: It appears that the cultural funding program was not cut, according to an article in today's Chronicle. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/22/BA5F13M07D.DTL Granted, it would have been a retarded thing to do as funds had already been awarded and probably a majority of artists and organizations had already signed and returned their contracts. But I've learned never to underestimate the stupidity of politicians. sl _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 24 09:09:43 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] more gino... Message-ID: <450173.32765.qm@web51612.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ...than you can shake a sausage at: http://www.thewire.co.uk/index.php?page=articles&article=1568 From Gino.Robair at penton.com Fri Oct 24 11:51:25 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:51:25 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Speaking of Serbian Brass Bands.... Message-ID: And The Wire, this video (on their site at the moment) is worth checking out: http://www.thewire.co.uk/articles/1563/ From weaselw at juno.com Sat Oct 25 13:50:17 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 13:50:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] need aaron bennett's number Message-ID: <20081025.135018.3380.267.weaselw@juno.com> does somebody have a phone number for aaron bennett? please catch me offline. thanks. ww Weasel Walter http://nowave.pair.com ____________________________________________________________ Save on Criminal Lawyer Services. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oGdggTynSUPbbQjEwsrx6QmHAFu8EXNQyq4pGmTUiRzbUSq/ From ingalls at mills.edu Sat Oct 25 14:13:07 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 14:13:07 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: Need Venues In-Reply-To: <56591.76.253.1224969064.squirrel@o8.hostbaby.com> References: <56591.76.253.1224969064.squirrel@o8.hostbaby.com> Message-ID: ________________________________________ From: mailman-bounces at music.mills.edu [mailman-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Fulkerson, Ph.D. [christopher at christopherfulkerson.com] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:11 PM To: newmusicevents-owner at music.mills.edu Subject: Need Venues Dear List Manager, I am a composer and conductor in San Francisco. I will be giving a concert of my music in May of 2009 at Old First Concerts in San Francisco. I would also like to offer the same program once in the East Bay. Unfortunately, though I have been doing concerts on and off in the Bay Area for 25 years, I have never gotten a sense of where in the East Bay the contemporary music audience knows to go to hear concerts. I need information about available venues in the East Bay. Can you help me with a list, or a telephone conversation? And/or a recommendation of who else I might contact? You may email me or call me at 650-343-3760. I could really use some help. I hope to hear from you. Sincerely, Christopher Fulkerson, Ph.D. Christopher at ChristopherFulkerson.com From djcypod at gmail.com Sat Oct 25 16:47:21 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:47:21 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 50 song Mega-mix Message-ID: follow this link to listen: http://cypod.blogspot.com/ This mega-mix from my itunes collection powered by the new LaLa From Gino.Robair at penton.com Sun Oct 26 15:53:37 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 17:53:37 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] SFEMF suggestion Message-ID: Not only would it be great to see someone like Daito do this in concert, but why not do a surround version, with 5 or more people.... Daito Manabe http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=46412 http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=46413 From praemedia at yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 10:59:44 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] peddle/amp geekery Message-ID: <882984.78348.qm@web51606.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/003274.php From magsatellite at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 12:17:47 2008 From: magsatellite at yahoo.com (J. Segel) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] peddle/amp geekery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <626136.68517.qm@web45210.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/003274.php thanks lance, now nothing more gets done at work today... MAGNETIC --- Jonathan Segel magsatellite-yahoo(.)com <---> jsegel-magneticmotorworks(.)com http://www.MagneticMotorworks.com From ingalls at mills.edu Tue Oct 28 12:52:20 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 12:52:20 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: surprised no politics talk here lately maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy farce last week. at end of last night Djll (spontaneously?) got group to chant "ob-a-ma" to the final blowout tune.. and why not "mc-kin-ney"? somehow the lack of audience (and i am predicting for all of us the next year or so) and complete dismissal of 3rd party candidates this election seems related -- wish i could articulate - but something like depression about the state = not wanting risk of thought/effort? -m from http://www.acgreens.org/VG/GPAC-VG-1108.pdf This year in 2008?as in 2004?our mainstream choices are again so limited that we are not even allowed to vote against war if we wish to choose between one of the two corporate-funded candidates. While John McCain sees the war in Iraq as ?necessary and just,? Obama?s plan is to simply shift troops from Iraq to Afghanistan (?the good war?). And with the addition of Joe Biden to the Obama ticket, Biden?s favored strategy of partitioning Iraq into three states?which makes control of the oil more practical for the US?has resurfaced. Meanwhile, what many average Americans want (for the troops to come home, and for Bush/Cheney to be impeached) is, they are told, somehow impossible. This year, as in 2004, thanks to the archaic electoral system in the US ? involving the winner-take-all system and the undemocratic electoral college (see fairvote. org) ? California Greens have a special role to play. Un- like many other Greens in the nation, California Greens have the luxury of the highly likely scenario that Obama will beat McCain in California in November. Given that lead, California voters can comfortably choose to vote for someone they respect?rather than voting simply out of fear or disgust, without fearing they will automatically install McCain/Palin. The Alameda County Green Party has responded to this position by endorsing two presidential candidate campaigns, rather than just one. This year, at the Green Party National Convention (held in Chicago, Illinois), Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente were chosen as the presidential and vice-presidential candidates for the Green Party. However, in California, Ralph Nader and his vice- presidential choice, Matt Gonzalez (running as Peace and Freedom Party candidates), continue to be highly popular choices for Green voters. Both of these campaigns, McK- inney/Clemente and Nader/Gonzalez, strongly embrace Green positions and both of these campaigns enjoy the support of many local Greens. When faced with this issue of division in California, the Alameda County Green Party chose to look to our Green values ? opposing a winner-take-all system, sup- porting a proportional representation system ? and endorse both campaigns. We feel that each has unique and valu- able ideas to contribute which we see as an opportunity to spread our support. For 2008, the Green Party of Alameda County can now say we endorse multiple viable candidates who embrace our values, two significant campaigns will- ing to take on the daunting task of standing up to the most powerful political corporate-funded machine, perhaps, in the history of the world, in a time of war. We feel this best represents our county and our party. From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Oct 28 15:14:30 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:14:30 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: Matt Ingalls wrote: surprised no politics talk here lately maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake cupcakes for Obama. also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy farce last week. -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 people. For a new music show without "out of town" stars, that's fairly decent. 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must confess we showed up late so that we could get in for less, because I was strapped for cash, and my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to stay home and watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig at 1510, hair washing 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in the ensemble. The only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I can remember the audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show and the Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have been audience performer equity - 50/50. sl From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue Oct 28 16:02:17 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <640056.47376.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying assholes with no imagination whatsoever. and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have an audience. whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning to eliminate obama). jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. laters, pg --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Matt Ingalls wrote: > From: Matt Ingalls > Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > To: "newmusic at music.mills.edu" > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 12:52 PM > surprised no politics talk here lately > maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. > > also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy > farce last week. at end of last night Djll (spontaneously?) > got group to chant "ob-a-ma" to the final blowout > tune.. and why not "mc-kin-ney"? somehow the lack > of audience (and i am predicting for all of us the next year > or so) and complete dismissal of 3rd party candidates this > election seems related -- wish i could articulate - but > something like depression about the state = not wanting risk > of thought/effort? > > -m > > from http://www.acgreens.org/VG/GPAC-VG-1108.pdf > > This year in 2008?as in 2004?our mainstream > choices are again so limited that we are not even allowed > to vote against war if we wish to choose between one of > the two corporate-funded candidates. While John McCain > sees the war in Iraq as ?necessary and just,? Obama?s > plan > is to simply shift troops from Iraq to Afghanistan (?the > good war?). And with the addition of Joe Biden to the > Obama ticket, Biden?s favored strategy of partitioning > Iraq > into three states?which makes control of the oil more > practical for the US?has resurfaced. Meanwhile, what > many average Americans want (for the troops to come > home, and for Bush/Cheney to be impeached) is, they are > told, somehow impossible. > This year, as in 2004, thanks to the archaic electoral > system in the US ? involving the winner-take-all system > and the undemocratic electoral college (see fairvote. > org) ? California Greens have a special role to play. Un- > like many other Greens in the nation, California Greens > have the luxury of the highly likely scenario that Obama > will beat McCain in California in November. Given that > lead, California voters can comfortably choose to vote > for someone they respect?rather than voting simply out > of fear or disgust, without fearing they will automatically > install McCain/Palin. > The Alameda County Green Party has responded > to this position by endorsing two presidential candidate > campaigns, rather than just one. This year, at the Green > Party National Convention (held in Chicago, Illinois), > Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente were chosen as > the presidential and vice-presidential candidates for the > Green Party. > However, in California, Ralph Nader and his vice- > presidential choice, Matt Gonzalez (running as Peace and > Freedom Party candidates), continue to be highly popular > choices for Green voters. Both of these campaigns, McK- > inney/Clemente and Nader/Gonzalez, strongly embrace > Green positions and both of these campaigns enjoy the > support of many local Greens. > When faced with this issue of division in California, > the Alameda County Green Party chose to look to our > Green values ? opposing a winner-take-all system, sup- > porting a proportional representation system ? and > endorse > both campaigns. We feel that each has unique and valu- > able ideas to contribute which we see as an opportunity to > spread our support. For 2008, the Green Party of Alameda > County can now say we endorse multiple viable candidates > who embrace our values, two significant campaigns will- > ing to take on the daunting task of standing up to the most > powerful political corporate-funded machine, perhaps, in > the history of the world, in a time of war. We feel this > best > represents our county and our party. > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue Oct 28 16:05:01 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <612670.4672.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i thought the moe show at the lab had a nice turnout, yes, given that there were enormous amounts of musicians on stage (and elsewhere). and djll has a right to charge $20 for tickets for such a show - it's merely double the cost of a movie, and we gave the people their money's worth, IMO. but if i had to fork out that much, i probably wouldn't have been able to afford it either. money is really tight these days. pg --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM > Matt Ingalls wrote: > > surprised no politics talk here lately > maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. > > -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake > cupcakes for Obama. > > also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy > farce last week. > > -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": > > 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 > people. For a new > music show without "out of town" stars, > that's fairly decent. > > 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must > confess we showed up > late so that we could get in for less, because I was > strapped for cash, and > my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to > stay home and > watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). > > 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig > at 1510, hair > washing > > 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in > the ensemble. The > only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I > can remember the > audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show > and the > Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have > been audience > performer equity - 50/50. > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue Oct 28 16:06:48 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. pg i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying assholes with no imagination whatsoever. and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have an audience. whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning to eliminate obama). jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. laters, pg --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM > Matt Ingalls wrote: > > surprised no politics talk here lately > maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. > > -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake > cupcakes for Obama. > > also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy > farce last week. > > -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": > > 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 > people. For a new > music show without "out of town" stars, > that's fairly decent. > > 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must > confess we showed up > late so that we could get in for less, because I was > strapped for cash, and > my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to > stay home and > watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). > > 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig > at 1510, hair > washing > > 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in > the ensemble. The > only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I > can remember the > audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show > and the > Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have > been audience > performer equity - 50/50. > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue Oct 28 17:03:28 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:03:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <612670.4672.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <612670.4672.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1698F82C-5D74-437A-803D-BBC95AA0EE80@balancepointacoustics.com> As much as I like Djll and all the great musicians involved, let's hope part of it is people are finally tired of the humor + music thing. I have not noticed shift in attendance. I have a gig on election day, we'll see how that goes... On Oct 28, 2008, at 4:05 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > i thought the moe show at the lab had a nice turnout, yes, given > that there were enormous amounts of musicians on stage (and > elsewhere). > > and djll has a right to charge $20 for tickets for such a show - > it's merely double the cost of a movie, and we gave the people > their money's worth, IMO. but if i had to fork out that much, i > probably wouldn't have been able to afford it either. money is > really tight these days. > > pg > > > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > >> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >> Matt Ingalls wrote: >> >> surprised no politics talk here lately >> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >> >> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >> cupcakes for Obama. >> >> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >> farce last week. >> >> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >> >> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >> people. For a new >> music show without "out of town" stars, >> that's fairly decent. >> >> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >> confess we showed up >> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >> strapped for cash, and >> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >> stay home and >> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >> >> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >> at 1510, hair >> washing >> >> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >> the ensemble. The >> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >> can remember the >> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >> and the >> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >> been audience >> performer equity - 50/50. >> >> sl >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From weaselw at juno.com Tue Oct 28 17:16:27 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:16:27 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <20081028.172038.3380.342.weaselw@juno.com> > whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. that's not true at all. the problems as i see it have to do with: too much art too much information not enough liesure time/money on the part of the consumers more people in society trying to be a musician, i.e. so wrapped up in their own thing (survival) that they don't have the energy to check out other people's stuff anymore. etc. i think most people playing live music are experiencing the same bad decline in turn-outs. here's an example - deerhoof are on tour and are having about half the turn-out they had last time around. now, deerhoof is popular. they have a very strong fan base. it's just symptomatic of the times. it's more complex than that, but a harbinger nonetheless. methinks that this fanbase might have had too many cookies and now it has a bellyache. things are just saturated to an extreme. will it get worse? well if dilletantes stopped because it wasn't cool to be a musician anymore, that would change things somewhat. if musicians stopped flooding the market with product, that might change things. right now, that's just the way it is. right now everybody and their mom wants to play a show and release recordings. there's too much stuff out there. too much mediocrity. a lot of great stuff gets lost in the shuffle. it's just the way it is. my attitude has been to just try to change and transform with it. cultivate what audience you have and don't worry about the rest. do what you can. do the best you can. fuck it. ww ____________________________________________________________ Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miihLOhiTaWCcH5t5o8jaguibihZ2XN3yF6530326VWIlcy/ From highhorse at mhorse.com Tue Oct 28 17:38:22 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:38:22 -0600 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <20081028.172038.3380.342.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20081028.172038.3380.342.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <4907B07E.1040007@mhorse.com> This definitely touches a nerve with me. A number of my closest musician friends, in fact I could even say most of them, never go out to other people's shows anymore. One of them lives in friggin' New York City, but can't be bothered to go out to see any of the amazing music happening night after night. The excuses are the same - kids, work, money - but it seems that the connection isn't made that going to see a show is not just entertainment for oneself, but supporting actual musicians and the greater music scene, which by extension includes their own selves. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > more people in society trying to be a musician, i.e. so wrapped up in > their own thing (survival) that they don't have the energy to check out > other people's stuff anymore. > etc. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Tue Oct 28 17:44:54 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <1698F82C-5D74-437A-803D-BBC95AA0EE80@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: <96993.20743.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > From: Damon Smith > As much as I like Djll and all the great musicians involved, > let's > hope part of it is people are finally tired of the humor + > music thing. > I have not noticed shift in attendance. I have a gig on > election day, > we'll see how that goes... > PG: Your criticism reads a bit like calling Tobe Hooper down for not casting a sexy female lead in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It doesn't hold water. You are evaluating Djll's work on the same platform as an Albert Mangelsdorf CD. They're not even in the same world. All Djll is doing here is creating a system for large ensemble music that allows him to comment on our American political process. As long has art has existed, it seems to me that the purpose is to allow people to express their thoughts and feelings about the world they live in. That's all Djll is doing here, and I thought for the most part he succeeded in satirizing our political process...and there were lots of great performances by all the musicians involved. From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Oct 28 18:00:47 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:00:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <96993.20743.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on 10/28/08 5:44 PM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote: > > PG: > Your criticism reads a bit like calling Tobe Hooper down for not casting a > sexy female lead in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. -- I dunno, I thought she was kinda cute. It doesn't hold water. You > are evaluating Djll's work on the same platform as an Albert Mangelsdorf CD. > They're not even in the same world. -- Well, the Mockracy thing struck me more as a theater piece than a musical work. I didn't see the one he did 5 years ago, except for in the excerpts in Noisy People, but this one seemed a bit different, Damon. Musically, this one didn't seem "jokey" - not particularly "out" and not virtuousic in any way, but it seemed to do what the piece required. It reminded me of Broadway musicals, which I grew up on, so that's not a bad thing. I think my parents would have loved it, but I felt that a lot of the humor (largely confined to the narrator's monologues) was dated, and I'm generally a tough audience for comedy. That is to say, I don't want to condemn Djll's labor of love as inherently "not funny" just because I, personally, didn't think it was funny. I thought the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was funnier than Mockracy, but I'm just weird. P.S. I finally opted out of digest mode in the service of everyone's gmail threading. sl From ingalls at mills.edu Tue Oct 28 18:23:15 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:23:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: , <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell out for more exposure. as for audience, i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? ________________________________________ From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. pg i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying assholes with no imagination whatsoever. and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have an audience. whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning to eliminate obama). jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. laters, pg --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM > Matt Ingalls wrote: > > surprised no politics talk here lately > maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. > > -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake > cupcakes for Obama. > > also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy > farce last week. > > -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": > > 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 > people. For a new > music show without "out of town" stars, > that's fairly decent. > > 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must > confess we showed up > late so that we could get in for less, because I was > strapped for cash, and > my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to > stay home and > watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). > > 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig > at 1510, hair > washing > > 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in > the ensemble. The > only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I > can remember the > audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show > and the > Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have > been audience > performer equity - 50/50. > > sl > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Oct 28 18:29:15 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:29:15 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/28/08 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls at ingalls at mills.edu wrote: > > Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? - Evan Parker played the Finger Palace, I didn't go. The 1510 show was the one w/Nate Wooley and Mr. Smith, Looney, and Walter, and apparently a really good duo w/Darren Johnston and Devin Hoff, which I missed because I was making flyers for a show I was playing, and to further lend credence to Mr. Walter's theory, another reason I showed up late to the Mockracy thing on Saturday, was because I was practicing. I forget which show I missed because I was washing my hair. I think there've been quite a few, actually. sl From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Oct 28 16:21:58 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:21:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: Phillip wrote: i thought the moe show at the lab had a nice turnout, yes, given that there were enormous amounts of musicians on stage (and elsewhere). -- Actually, I think it was over 50 people in the audience, based on the amount collected at the door, it was probably more like 80. and djll has a right to charge $20 for tickets for such a show - it's merely double the cost of a movie, and we gave the people their money's worth, IMO. -- sure he has a right to charge $20; it was not outrageous considering the nature of the event, and perhaps related to the Oakland Metro's right to charge $1000 a night for use of their space. But both of these charges are a bit prohibitive to me. But we've had this discussion on this list a bajillionzillion times. but if i had to fork out that much, i probably wouldn't have been able to afford it either. money is really tight these days. -- indeed. sl pg From 21grand at 21grand.org Tue Oct 28 17:23:55 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:23:55 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] FW: 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Phillip wrote: i thought the moe show at the lab had a nice turnout, yes, given that there were enormous amounts of musicians on stage (and elsewhere). -- Actually, I think it was over 50 people in the audience, based on the amount collected at the door, it was probably more like 80. and djll has a right to charge $20 for tickets for such a show - it's merely double the cost of a movie, and we gave the people their money's worth, IMO. -- sure he has a right to charge $20; it was not outrageous considering the nature of the event, and perhaps related to the Oakland Metro's right to charge $1000 a night for use of their space. But both of these charges are a bit prohibitive to me. But we've had this discussion on this list a bajillionzillion times. but if i had to fork out that much, i probably wouldn't have been able to afford it either. money is really tight these days. -- indeed. sl pg ------ End of Forwarded Message From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 18:57:24 2008 From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <143966.49036.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: another reason I showed up late to the > Mockracy thing on > Saturday, was because I was practicing. I forget which show Yes, I have to say that often I miss shows I want to see b/c I am practicing. I wanted to see Lytton/Wooley on Monday and/or Tues but I had a gig to play Tues night and felt it was more important that I practice for that. All in all, we can hope for a better audience turn out, but ultimately why spend your time complaining and worrying about something you have no control over. Instead just appreciate what is the case, not worry about what isn't: Did you play a good set of music? Was there a receptive audience? If the answer to both those questions is "Yes" then great! You are doing what you want to be doing and doing it well and people are appreciating it. Try your best and hope for the best and appreciate what you do and what you get. Jacob Lindsay http://www.bayimproviser.com/jacoblindsay From Mylesaudio at aol.com Tue Oct 28 19:32:51 2008 From: Mylesaudio at aol.com (Mylesaudio at aol.com) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:32:51 EDT Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: Thank you Jacob for injecting something positive into this discussion! It seems to me that Mockracy had a lot going for it in terms of "draw": top local players, an actual rehearsed piece of music, and an entertaining spectacle of the type that is easy for the press to grab onto. It's these kind of events that keep our music in the public eye, and swell the audience above and beyond the usual pool of musicians. It is too bad more people didn't show up, but I don't see that as a failure of any kind. That's just the way it goes in the big city. Myles In a message dated 10/28/08 5:57:43 PM, jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com writes: > All in all, we can hope for a better audience turn out, but ultimately why > spend your time complaining and worrying about something you have no control > over.? Instead just appreciate what is the case, not worry about what isn't:? > Did you play a good set of music?? Was there a receptive audience?? If the > answer to both those questions is "Yes" then great!? You are doing what you > want to be doing and doing it well and people are appreciating it. > > Try your best and hope for the best and appreciate what you do and what you > get. > ************** Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics ? check it out! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1211202682x1200689022/aol?redir= http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue Oct 28 19:34:06 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:34:06 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <96993.20743.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <96993.20743.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <91F497E6-8FAA-45DA-8C8F-66D58A32E89C@balancepointacoustics.com> On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:44 PM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > PG: > Your criticism reads a bit like calling Tobe Hooper down for not > casting a sexy female lead in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It > doesn't hold water. You are evaluating Djll's work on the same > platform as an Albert Mangelsdorf CD. They're not even in the same > world. > > All Djll is doing here is creating a system for large ensemble > music that allows him to comment on our American political process. > As long has art has existed, it seems to me that the purpose is to > allow people to express their thoughts and feelings about the world > they live in. That's all Djll is doing here, and I thought for the > most part he succeeded in satirizing our political process...and > there were lots of great performances by all the musicians involved. - That is all fine, I still strongly believe if we had more performances that could be compared to a Manglesdorf album or anything equally serious, we might have a stronger audience base as well as more demand for our recordings and appearances outside the Bay Area. Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From ava.mendoza at gmail.com Tue Oct 28 19:41:47 2008 From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:41:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] optometrist? Message-ID: <317505170810281941j3006fa9bn3798f8d6a9ad7cd2@mail.gmail.com> Hi out there, Does anyone know of a cheap, decent optometrist? I'm on the market for new contact lenses, no insurance.. This is related to New Music because without my contacts I would be a blind guitarist, which would make me more Old Music. Thank you, thank you, Ava From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Tue Oct 28 21:14:40 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:14:40 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <4907B07E.1040007@mhorse.com> References: <20081028.172038.3380.342.weaselw@juno.com> <4907B07E.1040007@mhorse.com> Message-ID: <24063533-A366-4A7F-81A9-EB4E7B3F3932@balancepointacoustics.com> I still prefer recorded music over live music, but I try to make it out to gigs pretty often. I am not a fan of hearing a set before I play, except when it is really riveting like that duo with Darren Johnston and Devin Hoff, they just really had something that night! What Jacob said pretty much sums it up. Just practice, work with good musicians and try to get your ideas realized is the answer. People that are going to get attracted by spectacles are not going to stick around. I am happy if some really good, serious listeners show up, like Buzz or Paul Murphy. On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:38 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote: > This definitely touches a nerve with me. A number of my closest > musician > friends, in fact I could even say most of them, never go out to other > people's shows anymore. One of them lives in friggin' New York > City, but > can't be bothered to go out to see any of the amazing music happening > night after night. The excuses are the same - kids, work, money - > but it > seems that the connection isn't made that going to see a show is not > just entertainment for oneself, but supporting actual musicians and > the > greater music scene, which by extension includes their own selves. > > Daryl Shawn > www.swanwelder.com Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com Tue Oct 28 23:44:53 2008 From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:44:53 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: References: , <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com> I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. So fewer people going to music are so, too. I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning the socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the picture. And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a musician" My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive experience. However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical outsider. The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of course, affirms your social position. So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what they believe about themselves. Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this weekend, too. phoo, so much blather. . . mg On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: > well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but > mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- > basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically > those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell > out for more exposure. > > as for audience, > i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with > bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy > is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to > happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already > mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our > show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only > had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical > fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be > something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). > > Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? > > ________________________________________ > From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu > ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it > didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. > pg > > > i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how > disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i > thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be > themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from > Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying > assholes with no imagination whatsoever. > > and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but > the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was > mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the > ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been > an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. > > and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have > an audience. > > whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize > there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to > eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning > to eliminate obama). > > jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. > > laters, > pg > > > --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > >> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >> Matt Ingalls wrote: >> >> surprised no politics talk here lately >> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >> >> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >> cupcakes for Obama. >> >> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >> farce last week. >> >> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >> >> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >> people. For a new >> music show without "out of town" stars, >> that's fairly decent. >> >> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >> confess we showed up >> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >> strapped for cash, and >> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >> stay home and >> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >> >> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >> at 1510, hair >> washing >> >> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >> the ensemble. The >> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >> can remember the >> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >> and the >> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >> been audience >> performer equity - 50/50. >> >> sl >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Matthew Goodheart composer ~ improviser ~ pianist matthew at matthewgoodheart.com http://matthewgoodheart.com http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart From faultsleep at gmail.com Wed Oct 29 00:49:12 2008 From: faultsleep at gmail.com (k corcoran) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:49:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Ava, About a year ago I went with my girlfriend to UC Berkeley where they have a faculty/student optometrist facility to get her eyes checked. I'm not 100% on the cost, but she doesn't have insurance and I think she found it to be the cheapest option (we drove there specifically from Sacramento). Maybe that can be of some help to look into... Kevin > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue > Hi out there, > > Does anyone know of a cheap, decent optometrist? I'm on the market for new > contact lenses, no insurance.. This is related to New Music because without > my contacts I would be a blind guitarist, which would make me more Old > Music. Thank you, thank you, > > Ava > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > End of NewMusic Digest, Vol 30, Issue 24 > **************************************** > From michaelz at zoka.com Wed Oct 29 09:13:38 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:13:38 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <24063533-A366-4A7F-81A9-EB4E7B3F3932@balancepointacoustics.com> References: <20081028.172038.3380.342.weaselw@juno.com> <4907B07E.1040007@mhorse.com> <24063533-A366-4A7F-81A9-EB4E7B3F3932@balancepointacoustics.com> Message-ID: On 10/28/08, Damon Smith wrote: >People that are going to get attracted by spectacles are not going >to stick around. Is this a comment on Ava's search for new contact lenses? MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From katttsammon at hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 09:45:10 2008 From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:45:10 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com> References: , <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: Hmmm...did Tom produce this show on his own or was it co-sponsored by another organization or part of a series? Does Oakland Metro do press for the shows there at all? I ask because I did not receive any blurbs about this show (and I'm on a ton of lists)....now I did hear about it from a friend or two that mentioned it a day or two before the performance...and by that time I already had obligations...so I'm the type that needs to get it in my calendar, I admit sometimes I'm hey "way too lazy" to go to a website and see what is happening...so I really appreciate the email/flier/postcards...and sometimes the flier/email/postcards brings something back to my attention that sounded interesting on a website. If Tom runs the piece again, I'd surely go. So Tom run it again --- 2 shows aint enough anyway. K ---------------------------------------- > From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:44:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in > Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on > music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green > (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good > Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a > supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, > including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make > a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there > (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, > so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the > ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are > actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As > we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological > fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. > > So fewer people going to music are so, too. > > I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: > > No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art > anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced > to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser > improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material > they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is > most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning the > socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that > may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the > picture. > > And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's > "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on > the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a > musician" > > My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society > actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is > down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often > everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in > churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people > actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking > or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of > the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive experience. > > However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, > distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, > particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to > step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording > themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal > use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and > themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some > sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, > impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an > artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has > emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the > meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a > "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of > societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the > destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- > art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art > has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical outsider. > > The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are > more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be > in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own > terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of > course, affirms your social position. > > So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what > they believe about themselves. > > Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are > we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? > > And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary > vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this > weekend, too. > > phoo, so much blather. . . > > mg > > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: > >> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >> out for more exposure. >> >> as for audience, >> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >> >> Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu >> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> >> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >> pg >> >> >> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >> >> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >> >> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >> an audience. >> >> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >> to eliminate obama). >> >> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >> >> laters, >> pg >> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: >> >>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand >>> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>> >>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>> >>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>> cupcakes for Obama. >>> >>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>> farce last week. >>> >>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>> >>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>> people. For a new >>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>> that's fairly decent. >>> >>> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >>> confess we showed up >>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>> strapped for cash, and >>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>> stay home and >>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>> >>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>> at 1510, hair >>> washing >>> >>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>> the ensemble. The >>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>> can remember the >>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>> and the >>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>> been audience >>> performer equity - 50/50. >>> >>> sl >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _________________________________________________________________ Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_102008 From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Wed Oct 29 09:51:12 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:51:12 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com> References: , <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com> Message-ID: I don't think it is any more or less dismal for the arts than it was before. The "igeneration" has it's upside, too. It is a whole lot easier to get access to the important work should anyone have the interest (and if anyone does not have the interest in the breadth of the field they are working in, they should pick another). When I got interested in the music I had to spend thousands of $$ on LPs to get a real overview of the music. Consequently, I was one the few who even had a real overview of the music. This just isn't the case anymore. The same is true with other arts. With Ubu.com and current video technology you have access to important work that was just sitting in museum's vaults. Also, in the last year museums have still been pretty crowded in my experience, and that is here, LA, Jersusalem, Hamburg, Vienna, Brussels, ect. They like to cry about it, but trust me I love being in an empty museum and it is a pretty rare occurrence these days. What I can say for myself is that I have been able to sustain a regular enough audience, listener base and playing schedule to make it worth continuing for going on 15 years now. Playing regularly is important for improvised music the "great genius coming down of the mountain" once a year approach very rarely works. In my experience playing regularly with a good mix of new and old collaborators keeps things really Sharp. On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: > I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in > Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on > music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green > (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good > Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a > supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, > including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make > a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there > (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, > so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the > ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are > actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As > we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological > fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. > > So fewer people going to music are so, too. > > I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: > > No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art > anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced > to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser > improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material > they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is > most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning the > socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that > may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the > picture. > > And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's > "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on > the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a > musician" > > My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society > actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is > down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often > everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in > churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people > actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking > or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of > the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive > experience. > > However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, > distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, > particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to > step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording > themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal > use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and > themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some > sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, > impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an > artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has > emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the > meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a > "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of > societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the > destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- > art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art > has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical > outsider. > > The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are > more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be > in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own > terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of > course, affirms your social position. > > So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what > they believe about themselves. > > Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are > we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? > > And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary > vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this > weekend, too. > > phoo, so much blather. . . > > mg > > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: > >> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >> out for more exposure. >> >> as for audience, >> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >> >> Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic- >> bounces at music.mills.edu >> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> >> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >> pg >> >> >> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >> >> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >> >> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >> an audience. >> >> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >> to eliminate obama). >> >> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >> >> laters, >> pg >> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >> >>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >>> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>> >>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>> >>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>> cupcakes for Obama. >>> >>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>> farce last week. >>> >>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>> >>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>> people. For a new >>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>> that's fairly decent. >>> >>> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >>> confess we showed up >>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>> strapped for cash, and >>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>> stay home and >>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>> >>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>> at 1510, hair >>> washing >>> >>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>> the ensemble. The >>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>> can remember the >>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>> and the >>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>> been audience >>> performer equity - 50/50. >>> >>> sl >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From ingalls at mills.edu Wed Oct 29 11:38:13 2008 From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:38:13 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: References: , <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com>, Message-ID: METRO: i think it was a straight rental. the new metro has a ways to go -- right now it's sort of a warehouse space with no charm vibe, but pretending to be a legit venue -- there are no bathrooms, bad lighting, dust and junk over everything, and a"bar" with no liquor license. soundcheck/rehearsals were hectic. having the lead drop out for medical reasons opening night didn't help either! MEDIA: i didn't see much publicity myself -- no email announcements(???!) only a small stack of flyers at on show. i did by chance tune into wedge's kzsu show interviewing djll. MOCK: i do hope he does it again - i think if he could get it at a theater with a director to tighten the theatrical things up (and let Tom focus on the music) it could be really strong. the text is pretty amazing over-the-top wordplay. i don't think it needs to have that many musicians on stage but it does contribute to the spectacle. ________________________________________ From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Kattt Sammon [katttsammon at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:45 AM To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Hmmm...did Tom produce this show on his own or was it co-sponsored by another organization or part of a series? Does Oakland Metro do press for the shows there at all? I ask because I did not receive any blurbs about this show (and I'm on a ton of lists)....now I did hear about it from a friend or two that mentioned it a day or two before the performance...and by that time I already had obligations...so I'm the type that needs to get it in my calendar, I admit sometimes I'm hey "way too lazy" to go to a website and see what is happening...so I really appreciate the email/flier/postcards...and sometimes the flier/email/postcards brings something back to my attention that sounded interesting on a website. If Tom runs the piece again, I'd surely go. So Tom run it again --- 2 shows aint enough anyway. K ---------------------------------------- > From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:44:53 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in > Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on > music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green > (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good > Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a > supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, > including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make > a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there > (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, > so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the > ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are > actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As > we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological > fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. > > So fewer people going to music are so, too. > > I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: > > No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art > anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced > to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser > improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material > they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is > most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning the > socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that > may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the > picture. > > And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's > "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on > the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a > musician" > > My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society > actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is > down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often > everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in > churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people > actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking > or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of > the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive experience. > > However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, > distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, > particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to > step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording > themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal > use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and > themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some > sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, > impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an > artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has > emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the > meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a > "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of > societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the > destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- > art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art > has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical outsider. > > The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are > more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be > in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own > terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of > course, affirms your social position. > > So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what > they believe about themselves. > > Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are > we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? > > And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary > vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this > weekend, too. > > phoo, so much blather. . . > > mg > > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: > >> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >> out for more exposure. >> >> as for audience, >> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >> >> Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu >> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> >> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >> pg >> >> >> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >> >> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >> >> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >> an audience. >> >> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >> to eliminate obama). >> >> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >> >> laters, >> pg >> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: >> >>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand >>> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>> >>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>> >>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>> cupcakes for Obama. >>> >>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>> farce last week. >>> >>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>> >>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>> people. For a new >>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>> that's fairly decent. >>> >>> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >>> confess we showed up >>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>> strapped for cash, and >>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>> stay home and >>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>> >>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>> at 1510, hair >>> washing >>> >>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>> the ensemble. The >>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>> can remember the >>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>> and the >>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>> been audience >>> performer equity - 50/50. >>> >>> sl >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _________________________________________________________________ Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_102008 _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 29 12:30:04 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:30:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/29/08 9:45 AM, Kattt Sammon at katttsammon at hotmail.com wrote: > Does Oakland Metro do press for the shows > there at all? - They do press for their Oakland Opera Theater shows (the reason the venue exists). I think everything else they just list on their website and that's it. I mean, they're only charging $1000 a night, after all. The rentals are really just to subsidize their core programming (the Oakland Opera Theater stuff). > Press also is harder to come by these days ...yet another result of a bad economy ...fewer ads sold means fewer pages and fewer writers. I'm not sure which is a worse field to be in - music or journalism at this point. sl > K From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 29 12:54:13 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:54:13 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 10/29/08 11:38 AM, Matt Ingalls at ingalls at mills.edu wrote: > METRO: i think it was a straight rental. the new metro has a ways to go -- > right now it's sort of a warehouse space with no charm vibe, but pretending to > be a legit venue -- there are no bathrooms, bad lighting, dust and junk over > everything, and a"bar" with no liquor license. -- I'm pretty sure they're getting special dispensation from the City. I also suspect that their special dispensation has influenced the City's responses to 21 Grand's situation - some good, some bad. As far as "charm vibe" - I don't really require that of a venue, as audience member and performer, though I'm very glad I wasn't there long enough to have to use the Metro's non-existent facilities. I prefer spartan warehouse to cozy and charming, which for whatever reason, seems to involve having mediocre art on the walls. sl From katttsammon at hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 13:37:17 2008 From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:37:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: References: , <723788.45456.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <679ECE43-9044-4B51-A708-5A6F458E175D@matthewgoodheart.com>, Message-ID: **** interesting comments from sarah and matt. > Does Oakland Metro do press for the shows > there at all? - They do press for their Oakland Opera Theater shows (the reason the venue exists). I think everything else they just list on their website and that's it. I mean, they're only charging $1000 a night, after all. The rentals are really just to subsidize their core programming (the Oakland Opera Theater stuff). **** so a thousand dollars per night buys no bathrooms, bad lighting, dust and junk over everything (to quote matt)... and no email or snail mail mailing from the venue (or I'm not on their mailing list). did this type of environment bring anything to the piece? i can deal with $1000 a night if it's a good fit for the piece (and give me some lighting, bathrooms (with toilet paper), sound system and dust that is controlled) though if it's a negative factor...then $1000 is alot of money. Press also is harder to come by these days ...yet another result of a bad economy ...fewer ads sold means fewer pages and fewer writers. I'm not sure which is a worse field to be in - music or journalism at this point. **** i've only experienced press as being scarce. or to rephrase most artists whose work i'm nutty about barely get press from journalists and when they do...it doesn't mean they have more folks at their show it just means they were written about (or finally written about). i'm also getting more and more interested in the reclusive sector of artists who are always in r&d and composing and creating strong work...though barely perform because it's difficult to find an optimal performance space that works well for the piece to sound good. **** i commend tom for running his piece at the metro and hope that his next venue choice develops as the piece develops (the piece deserves that). i especially like matt's suggestions below for developing this piece.... k sl---------------------------------------- > From: ingalls at mills.edu > To: newmusic at music.mills.edu > Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:38:13 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > METRO: i think it was a straight rental. the new metro has a ways to go -- right now it's sort of a warehouse space with no charm vibe, but pretending to be a legit venue -- there are no bathrooms, bad lighting, dust and junk over everything, and a"bar" with no liquor license. soundcheck/rehearsals were hectic. having the lead drop out for medical reasons opening night didn't help either! > > MEDIA: i didn't see much publicity myself -- no email announcements(???!) only a small stack of flyers at on show. i did by chance tune into wedge's kzsu show interviewing djll. > > MOCK: i do hope he does it again - i think if he could get it at a theater with a director to tighten the theatrical things up (and let Tom focus on the music) it could be really strong. > the text is pretty amazing over-the-top wordplay. i don't think it needs to have that many musicians on stage but it does contribute to the spectacle. > > > ________________________________________ > From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Kattt Sammon [katttsammon at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:45 AM > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > Hmmm...did Tom produce this show on his own or was it co-sponsored by another organization or part of a series? Does Oakland Metro do press for the shows there at all? > > I ask because I did not receive any blurbs about this show (and I'm on a ton of lists)....now I did hear about it from a friend or two that mentioned it a day or two before the performance...and by that time I already had obligations...so I'm the type that needs to get it in my calendar, > > I admit sometimes I'm hey "way too lazy" to go to a website and see what is happening...so I really appreciate the email/flier/postcards...and sometimes the flier/email/postcards brings something back to my attention that sounded interesting on a website. > > If Tom runs the piece again, I'd surely go. So Tom run it again --- 2 shows aint enough anyway. > > K > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:44:53 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> >> I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in >> Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on >> music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green >> (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good >> Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a >> supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, >> including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make >> a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there >> (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, >> so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the >> ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are >> actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As >> we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological >> fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. >> >> So fewer people going to music are so, too. >> >> I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: >> >> No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art >> anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced >> to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser >> improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material >> they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is >> most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning the >> socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that >> may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the >> picture. >> >> And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's >> "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on >> the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a >> musician" >> >> My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society >> actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is >> down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often >> everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in >> churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people >> actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking >> or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of >> the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive experience. >> >> However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, >> distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, >> particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to >> step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording >> themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal >> use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and >> themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some >> sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, >> impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an >> artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has >> emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the >> meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a >> "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of >> societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the >> destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- >> art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art >> has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical outsider. >> >> The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are >> more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be >> in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own >> terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of >> course, affirms your social position. >> >> So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what >> they believe about themselves. >> >> Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are >> we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? >> >> And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary >> vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this >> weekend, too. >> >> phoo, so much blather. . . >> >> mg >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: >> >>> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >>> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >>> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >>> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >>> out for more exposure. >>> >>> as for audience, >>> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >>> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >>> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >>> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >>> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >>> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >>> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >>> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >>> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >>> >>> Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu >>> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> >>> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >>> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >>> pg >>> >>> >>> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >>> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >>> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >>> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >>> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >>> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >>> >>> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >>> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >>> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >>> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >>> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >>> >>> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >>> an audience. >>> >>> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >>> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >>> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >>> to eliminate obama). >>> >>> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >>> >>> laters, >>> pg >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote: >>> >>>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand >>>> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>>> >>>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>>> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>>> >>>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>>> cupcakes for Obama. >>>> >>>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>>> farce last week. >>>> >>>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>>> >>>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>>> people. For a new >>>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>>> that's fairly decent. >>>> >>>> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >>>> confess we showed up >>>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>>> strapped for cash, and >>>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>>> stay home and >>>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>>> >>>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>>> at 1510, hair >>>> washing >>>> >>>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>>> the ensemble. The >>>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>>> can remember the >>>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>>> and the >>>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>>> been audience >>>> performer equity - 50/50. >>>> >>>> sl >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Matthew Goodheart >> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> http://matthewgoodheart.com >> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail. > http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_102008 > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _________________________________________________________________ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 From weaselw at juno.com Wed Oct 29 14:31:16 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:31:16 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <20081029.143126.3380.366.weaselw@juno.com> > **** so a thousand dollars per night buys no bathrooms, bad > lighting, dust and junk over everything (to quote matt)... and no > email or snail mail mailing from the venue (or I'm not on their > mailing list). did this type of environment bring anything to the > piece? correct. add bad acoustics and p.a. set up and you've got a deal! as long as people pay the price, highway robbers like these will keep charging that kind of money.i think it's the triumph of the "free market system" that the republicans love so much. joe the plumber and his meager 250,000 a year income. you know. ww ____________________________________________________________ Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miigfDYAiZSPMU7ploa6zcsCWdqHbSIpk2io72FOoccxi26/ From katttsammon at hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 14:45:32 2008 From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:45:32 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <20081029.143126.3380.366.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20081029.143126.3380.366.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: > >> **** so a thousand dollars per night buys no bathrooms, bad >> lighting, dust and junk over everything (to quote matt)... and no >> email or snail mail mailing from the venue (or I'm not on their >> mailing list). did this type of environment bring anything to the >> piece? > > correct. add bad acoustics and p.a. set up and you've got a deal! ****** yes a deal.. in helll > > as long as people pay the price, highway robbers like these will keep > charging that kind of money.i think it's the triumph of the "free market > system" that the republicans love so much. joe the plumber and his meager > 250,000 a year income. you know. > > ww > ____________________________________________________________ > Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miigfDYAiZSPMU7ploa6zcsCWdqHbSIpk2io72FOoccxi26/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic _________________________________________________________________ When your life is on the go?take your life with you. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/ From Gino.Robair at penton.com Wed Oct 29 15:59:18 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:59:18 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: WW wrote: <> My mom has made it very clear to me that, no matter how many times I offer her a deal with Rastascan, she simply doesn't want to make a record. Look, man, I've TRIED! And she won't play any of the local venues with under 1,500 seats... It's not worth the effort to schlep the amp. From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 29 16:46:53 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:46:53 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <20081029.143126.3380.366.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: On the other hand, let's say you're looking to book a metal show and expecting 200 people (that's a large part of the Metro's rentals) where ambiance and sometimes, toilets, aren't as important to the audience as seeing the band, and it being loud. I think there is regular skewed reasoning and planning in terms of building and development of venues. Besides the cost of real estate here in the Bay Area, I think that's a major culprit. It feels like there are a lot of people/groups in many disciplines that want large stages, but their expected audience numbers are barely half of the venue capacity, and you better believe that if you're renting the venue, you're essentially paying per square foot. Which leads to another real estate issue ... Larger spaces are generally cheaper per square foot than smaller or medium-sized ones, so you have these huge spaces that cost an arm and a leg that people will pay that arm and leg to (that's assuming they have said appendages to spare) because medium-sized spaces don't exist, and then they barely fill them. sl on 10/29/08 2:31 PM, weasel walter at weaselw at juno.com wrote: >> **** so a thousand dollars per night buys no bathrooms, bad >> lighting, dust and junk over everything (to quote matt)... and no >> email or snail mail mailing from the venue (or I'm not on their >> mailing list). did this type of environment bring anything to the >> piece? > > correct. add bad acoustics and p.a. set up and you've got a deal! > > as long as people pay the price, highway robbers like these will keep > charging that kind of money.i think it's the triumph of the "free market > system" that the republicans love so much. joe the plumber and his meager > 250,000 a year income. you know. > > ww > ____________________________________________________________ > Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miigfDYAiZSPMU7ploa6zcsCWdq > HbSIpk2io72FOoccxi26/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From lx.rudis at gmail.com Wed Oct 29 16:56:14 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:56:14 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] free event tonight relating to art and its relationship to 'new economy' Message-ID: <7272233a0810291656j5af37c67u5c541375d2f8766a@mail.gmail.com> hi gang. sorry for short notice. lawrence lessig's got a new book coming out, tonight's event is free to the public: http://lessig.org/news/2008/10/remix_book_party_sf_1029.html d33tz: "Remix: Making Art and Commerce Thrive in the Hybrid Economy" Reception 6:30pm - Program 7:00pm Free and open to the public! Location: W Hotel 181 Third Street San Francisco, CA From weaselw at juno.com Wed Oct 29 17:36:50 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:36:50 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <20081029.173755.3380.368.weaselw@juno.com> On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:46:53 -0700 Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> writes: > On the other hand, let's say you're looking to book a metal show and > expecting 200 people (that's a large part of the Metro's rentals) > where ambiance and sometimes, toilets, aren't as important to the audience > as seeing the band, and it being loud. i saw a metal show there and it sounded like total shit. the bands were good and had very nice gear, but the p.a was positioned in a really stupid way and the acoustics were terrible. it was a mess. ya wonder why people don't go to shows? because a lot of places sound like shit. they're tired of having to infer the quality of the music! that's a big part of why i don't go to shows - most of them sound terrible. (part of the way to avoid this as a performer is DON'T USE THE P.A. inept soundpersons are the number 1 culprits ruining live music right now.) ww ____________________________________________________________ Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miigZ6UPRIGmmTcyoSxo1nCX1u85K4pZKXLBPk5WHYI0f7o/ From lx.rudis at gmail.com Wed Oct 29 17:48:17 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:48:17 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <20081029.173755.3380.368.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20081029.173755.3380.368.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> ayn rand here, sorry to disturb you, but: On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:36 PM, weasel walter wrote: > > ya wonder why people don't go to shows? because a lot of places sound > like shit. they're tired of having to infer the quality of the music! > that's a big part of why i don't go to shows - most of them sound > terrible. > agreed. i have to voice one question, though: why _DO_ people go to shows? > > (part of the way to avoid this as a performer is DON'T USE THE P.A. inept > soundpersons are the number 1 culprits ruining live music right now.) > agreed. back when i was a synthpunk performing in rock clubs, our sound guy was a full member of the band. he knew our set, knew our gear, knew our peculiarities. he saved our live act many times, even when we played dumps with a broken shure vocalmaster for a PA. we paid him _twice as much_ as we paid ourselves, and we considered it a bargain at that price. From 21grand at 21grand.org Wed Oct 29 17:59:23 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:59:23 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: on 10/29/08 5:48 PM, lx rudis at lx.rudis at gmail.com wrote: > > i have to voice one question, though: > > why _DO_ people go to shows? Of the shows I've been to in the past couple months as an audience member, I've gone because: To distribute fliers for shows I'm in or putting on I want to see and support friends that are playing I want to get out of the house and have a drink w/friends I'm curious about what the venue is like I happened to be in the neighborhood with some time to kill sl From weaselw at juno.com Wed Oct 29 18:13:58 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:13:58 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <20081029.181541.3380.373.weaselw@juno.com> > i have to voice one question, though: > > why _DO_ people go to shows? when i was more psyched about going to shows the performers were generally more interesting and intense, the sound was better, the overall bills were better, yadda yadda. it could happen again, but right now for my own taste things are pretty dead. of course for somebody else, this is the best time ever. that's how it works. i'm not worried about it - i've been through this before. right now my favorite shows have been few and far between, but generally there's a good performer performing in an environment that doesn't have bad acoustics. i enjoyed seeing kanoko nishi and jordan glenn at the uptown last week. i liked the elliott carter duo for piano and violin at mills. behold...the arctopus at annies and parkside . . . etc. i'm psyched to see revenge and krieg at annies, which is a small dry venue that doesn't depend heavily on sound reinforcement. > he saved our live act many times, even when we played dumps with a > broken shure vocalmaster for a PA. > we paid him _twice as much_ as we paid ourselves, and we considered > it a bargain at that price. ha ha ha. many people asked me "how do i find a soundperson for my band?" hell if i know. right now all of my groups are entirely self-contained in terms of sound production except for vocals (which seem easy enough to balance out on the fly). more groups should do the same. part of the appeal of improvised music is the self-contained aspect of the sound production. the era of woofer abuse by bad soundmen must end. ww ____________________________________________________________ Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miigvFO5TfnWoa9RVBlsXHS7mGOnzRXIWmVr42lHTicaDGe/ From highhorse at mhorse.com Wed Oct 29 18:32:35 2008 From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:32:35 -0600 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081029.173755.3380.368.weaselw@juno.com> <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49090EB3.8040906@mhorse.com> Food for the soul, no less. When I do visit somewhere like the Bay Area, it's absolutely necessary for me to catch as much live music as possible. My musical life was developed through the input of a few choice recordings and by a whole boatload of shows. Maybe I'll get more cynical some day, but I still seek out the live experience with the hope to be transported, amazed and overwhelmed, and it does still happen. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com > i have to voice one question, though: > > why _DO_ people go to shows? From djll at sonic.net Wed Oct 29 21:44:57 2008 From: djll at sonic.net (Tom Dill) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:44:57 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Metro and other stuf Message-ID: <587DB506-4EC5-4CE9-8181-27A6C73FA9A2@sonic.net> For Mockracy, I did not amplify anything but the vocalists, and with Phil Perkins' help (and some from the soundguy at the Metro), the unamplified orchestra in the space + lightly amplified vocalists sounded fine. I can understand why a heavily amplified metal show would sound like shit, though. The rental was $800 per night, plus more hours for a dress rehearsal, plus extra for hiring sound and very minimal light tech-ing. All in all it added up to $2500. I made back about 1/4 of that in ticket sales. $20 was the price and I see little reason to second-guess it. It's what I thought it was worth, end of story. I would not rent the space again. I already gave the Metro management my grievances, so no need to trot them out here. My bad that the promotion was spotty and evidently ineffective. Just ran out of bandwidth. My decision also was to spend quite a bit on getting the performance fully documented on audio, video, and still camera. With that I can make a *product* to shop around to other venues, be they festivals, universities, rich eccentrics, well-heeled socialist agitators, whatever. I was blown away by the quality of musicianship, creativity, patience and good humor that the players brought to this edition of Mockracy. As Anthony Braxton probably more than once announced to his student orchestra(s), "Man! I'm gonna take all you cats on the road with me! You guys are fantastic!!!" Too bad so many missed it. Oh well. What is art, and why do we do it? Might as well ask why do we suffer, and why must we die. Onward, to the next magnificent failure! td Tom Djll 227 Otis St. Santa Cruz, CA 95060 (831) 429-8072 home (831) 423-3050 office (831) 320-1489 cell djll at sonic.net tom at mythmaker.com www.mythmaker.com Music, calendar, & bio: http://www.bayimproviser.com/TomDjll More music w/sound snippets: http://www.myspace.com/analoguelipsynthesizer Photography: http://www.flickr.com/photos/djll/ From letucepry at yahoo.com Thu Oct 30 09:34:37 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <794159.15910.qm@web54307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >well if >dilletantes stopped because it wasn't cool to be a musician anymore, that >would change things somewhat. Yes, now all the dilettantes will become politicians, that's certainly much safer. Get ready for Ableton "Campaign". lettuce ________________________________ From: weasel walter To: pgsaxo at pacbell.net; newmusic at music.mills.edu Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:16:27 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. that's not true at all. the problems as i see it have to do with: too much art too much information not enough liesure time/money on the part of the consumers more people in society trying to be a musician, i.e. so wrapped up in their own thing (survival) that they don't have the energy to check out other people's stuff anymore. etc. i think most people playing live music are experiencing the same bad decline in turn-outs. here's an example - deerhoof are on tour and are having about half the turn-out they had last time around. now, deerhoof is popular. they have a very strong fan base. it's just symptomatic of the times. it's more complex than that, but a harbinger nonetheless. methinks that this fanbase might have had too many cookies and now it has a bellyache. things are just saturated to an extreme. will it get worse? well if dilletantes stopped because it wasn't cool to be a musician anymore, that would change things somewhat. if musicians stopped flooding the market with product, that might change things. right now, that's just the way it is. right now everybody and their mom wants to play a show and release recordings. there's too much stuff out there. too much mediocrity. a lot of great stuff gets lost in the shuffle. it's just the way it is. my attitude has been to just try to change and transform with it. cultivate what audience you have and don't worry about the rest. do what you can. do the best you can. fuck it. ww ____________________________________________________________ Find the apartment of your dreams by clicking here now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3miihLOhiTaWCcH5t5o8jaguibihZ2XN3yF6530326VWIlcy/ _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From michaelz at zoka.com Thu Oct 30 09:50:03 2008 From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 09:50:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081029.173755.3380.368.weaselw@juno.com> <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/29/08, lx rudis wrote: >i have to voice one question, though: > >why _DO_ people go to shows? Many seem to go solely to hang out and talk with their friends while the bands are playing (or to "hook up" with "new friends"). Of course, this is less true at "new music" shows, where many in the audience are "sullen loners." MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ From slusser at pixar.com Thu Oct 30 10:12:41 2008 From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:12:41 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: References: <20081029.173755.3380.368.weaselw@juno.com> <7272233a0810291748s49cb0587y6017ccc539347e80@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <08C113CC-655E-47AF-86F0-EE7345270673@pixar.com> On Oct 30, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Michael Zelner wrote: > On 10/29/08, lx rudis wrote: > >> i have to voice one question, though: >> >> why _DO_ people go to shows? > > > Many seem to go solely to hang out and talk with their friends while > the bands are playing (or to "hook up" with "new friends"). > > Of course, this is less true at "new music" shows, where many in the > audience are "sullen loners." > > MZ wonderful Then there are those who go to shows to destroy the performer's equipment. From letucepry at yahoo.com Thu Oct 30 10:15:05 2008 From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <298036.54029.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >Of course, this is less true at "new music" shows, where many in the >audience are "sullen loners." Oh, no you didn't.... lettuce ________________________________ From: Michael Zelner To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:50:03 AM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music On 10/29/08, lx rudis wrote: >i have to voice one question, though: > >why _DO_ people go to shows? Many seem to go solely to hang out and talk with their friends while the bands are playing (or to "hook up" with "new friends"). Of course, this is less true at "new music" shows, where many in the audience are "sullen loners." MZ --------------michaelz at zoka.com--- Michael Zelner ---Oakland CA USA------------------ _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From liberatednsf at yahoo.com Thu Oct 30 20:11:04 2008 From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <662654.48020.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ubu.com.? Thank you.? Truly. Andrew http://oudevoida.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Damon Smith To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:51:12 AM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music I don't think it is any more or less dismal for the arts than it was? before. The "igeneration" has it's upside, too. It is a whole lot easier to get access to the important work should? anyone have the interest (and if anyone does not have the interest in? the breadth of the field they are working in, they should pick? another). When I got interested in the music I had to spend thousands? of $$ on LPs to get a real overview of the music. Consequently, I was? one the few who even had a real overview of the music. This just? isn't the case anymore. The same is true with other arts. With Ubu.com and current video? technology you have access to important work that was just sitting in? museum's vaults. Also, in the last year museums have still been pretty crowded in my? experience, and that is here, LA, Jersusalem, Hamburg, Vienna,? Brussels, ect. They like to cry about it, but trust me I love being in an empty? museum and it is a pretty rare occurrence these days. What I can say for myself is that I have been able to sustain a? regular enough audience, listener base and playing schedule to make? it worth continuing for going on 15 years now. Playing regularly is important for improvised music the "great genius? coming down of the mountain" once a year approach very rarely works. In my experience playing regularly with a good mix of new and old? collaborators keeps things really Sharp. On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: > I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in > Reno canvassing for Obama.? This speaks to both my realist stance on > music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green > (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good > Green city council members.? The Green mayor of Richmond forged a > supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, > including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make > a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there > (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, > so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the > ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are > actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.)? As > we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological > fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. > > So fewer people going to music are so, too. > > I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: > > No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art > anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced > to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser > improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material > they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is > most often alternative in "surface aesthetic,"? not in questioning the > socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that > may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the > picture. > > And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's > "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on > the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a > musician" > > My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society > actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is > down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often > everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in > churches, temples, etc.).? With the advent of recording, fewer people > actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking > or sex;? it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of > the "professional."? Music moved from an active to a passive? > experience. > > However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, > distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, > particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to > step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording > themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal > use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and > themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some > sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, > impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an > artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s.? What has > emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the > meme of? individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a > "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of > societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the > destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- > art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art > has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical? > outsider. > > The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are > more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be > in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own > terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of > course, affirms your social position. > > So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what > they believe about themselves. > > Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are > we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? > > And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary > vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this > weekend, too. > > phoo, so much blather. . . > > mg > > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: > >> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >> out for more exposure. >> >> as for audience, >> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >> >> Evan Parker played at 1510!?? how did i miss that?!? >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic- >> bounces at music.mills.edu >> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >> >> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >> pg >> >> >> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >> >> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >> >> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >> an audience. >> >> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >> to eliminate obama). >> >> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >> >> laters, >> pg >> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >> >>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >>> Subject: [NewMusic]? 3rd party music >>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>> >>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>>? maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>> >>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>> cupcakes for Obama. >>> >>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>> farce last week. >>> >>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>> >>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>> people. For a new >>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>> that's fairly decent. >>> >>> 2. $20 cover charge, with? a $15 student price.? I must >>> confess we showed up >>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>> strapped for cash, and >>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>> stay home and >>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>> >>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>> at 1510, hair >>> washing >>> >>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>> the ensemble. The >>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>> can remember the >>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>> and the >>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>> been audience >>> performer equity - 50/50. >>> >>> sl >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Matthew Goodheart > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com > http://matthewgoodheart.com > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From djcypod at gmail.com Thu Oct 30 21:44:52 2008 From: djcypod at gmail.com (beau) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 21:44:52 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <662654.48020.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <662654.48020.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: my decision to attend a performance is usually based on how well I like the performers recorded works that I have listened to previously. On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 8:11 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote: > Ubu.com. Thank you. Truly. > > > Andrew > > > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Damon Smith > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:51:12 AM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > I don't think it is any more or less dismal for the arts than it was > before. The "igeneration" has it's upside, too. > It is a whole lot easier to get access to the important work should > anyone have the interest (and if anyone does not have the interest in > the breadth of the field they are working in, they should pick > another). When I got interested in the music I had to spend thousands > of $$ on LPs to get a real overview of the music. Consequently, I was > one the few who even had a real overview of the music. This just > isn't the case anymore. > The same is true with other arts. With Ubu.com and current video > technology you have access to important work that was just sitting in > museum's vaults. > Also, in the last year museums have still been pretty crowded in my > experience, and that is here, LA, Jersusalem, Hamburg, Vienna, > Brussels, ect. > They like to cry about it, but trust me I love being in an empty > museum and it is a pretty rare occurrence these days. > > What I can say for myself is that I have been able to sustain a > regular enough audience, listener base and playing schedule to make > it worth continuing for going on 15 years now. > Playing regularly is important for improvised music the "great genius > coming down of the mountain" once a year approach very rarely works. > In my experience playing regularly with a good mix of new and old > collaborators keeps things really Sharp. > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: > >> I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in >> Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on >> music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green >> (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good >> Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a >> supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, >> including supporting their building renovation, which is going to make >> a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there >> (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, >> so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the >> ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are >> actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As >> we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological >> fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. >> >> So fewer people going to music are so, too. >> >> I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: >> >> No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art >> anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be produced >> to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser >> improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material >> they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is >> most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning the >> socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that >> may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the >> picture. >> >> And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get Weasel's >> "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on >> the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a >> musician" >> >> My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society >> actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is >> down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often >> everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in >> churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people >> actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking >> or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of >> the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive >> experience. >> >> However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, >> distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, >> particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately able to >> step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording >> themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal >> use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and >> themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some >> sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, >> impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an >> artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has >> emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is the >> meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a >> "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of >> societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the >> destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- >> art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art >> has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical >> outsider. >> >> The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are >> more interested in their social station than allowing themselves to be >> in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own >> terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of >> course, affirms your social position. >> >> So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm what >> they believe about themselves. >> >> Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are >> we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? >> >> And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary >> vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this >> weekend, too. >> >> phoo, so much blather. . . >> >> mg >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: >> >>> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >>> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >>> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >>> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >>> out for more exposure. >>> >>> as for audience, >>> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >>> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >>> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >>> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >>> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >>> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >>> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >>> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >>> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >>> >>> Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic- >>> bounces at music.mills.edu >>> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> >>> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >>> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >>> pg >>> >>> >>> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >>> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >>> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >>> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >>> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >>> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >>> >>> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >>> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >>> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >>> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >>> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >>> >>> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >>> an audience. >>> >>> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >>> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >>> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >>> to eliminate obama). >>> >>> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >>> >>> laters, >>> pg >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >>>> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>>> >>>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>>> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>>> >>>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>>> cupcakes for Obama. >>>> >>>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>>> farce last week. >>>> >>>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>>> >>>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>>> people. For a new >>>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>>> that's fairly decent. >>>> >>>> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >>>> confess we showed up >>>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>>> strapped for cash, and >>>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>>> stay home and >>>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>>> >>>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>>> at 1510, hair >>>> washing >>>> >>>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>>> the ensemble. The >>>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>>> can remember the >>>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>>> and the >>>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>>> been audience >>>> performer equity - 50/50. >>>> >>>> sl >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Matthew Goodheart >> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> http://matthewgoodheart.com >> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From damon at balancepointacoustics.com Thu Oct 30 22:57:57 2008 From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:57:57 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <662654.48020.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <662654.48020.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4694E5D3-586A-43CC-833E-56D17110EC3F@balancepointacoustics.com> Yeah, Ubu is the best! I used the last 30min. of Vito Acconci's conversions: http://www.ubu.com/film/acconci_conversions.html To time my 30min of drone shift tonight (fun concert!). I needed to watch it to get it off my ipod to make room for the Early Gary Hill videos they just posted. The Acconci REALLY gets racy toward the end. His soundworks are amazing too, and free on Ubu. He is for sure one of my favorites of that era of performance/video art. On Oct 30, 2008, at 8:11 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote: > Ubu.com. Thank you. Truly. > > > Andrew > > > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Damon Smith > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:51:12 AM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > I don't think it is any more or less dismal for the arts than it was > before. The "igeneration" has it's upside, too. > It is a whole lot easier to get access to the important work should > anyone have the interest (and if anyone does not have the interest in > the breadth of the field they are working in, they should pick > another). When I got interested in the music I had to spend thousands > of $$ on LPs to get a real overview of the music. Consequently, I was > one the few who even had a real overview of the music. This just > isn't the case anymore. > The same is true with other arts. With Ubu.com and current video > technology you have access to important work that was just sitting in > museum's vaults. > Also, in the last year museums have still been pretty crowded in my > experience, and that is here, LA, Jersusalem, Hamburg, Vienna, > Brussels, ect. > They like to cry about it, but trust me I love being in an empty > museum and it is a pretty rare occurrence these days. > > What I can say for myself is that I have been able to sustain a > regular enough audience, listener base and playing schedule to make > it worth continuing for going on 15 years now. > Playing regularly is important for improvised music the "great genius > coming down of the mountain" once a year approach very rarely works. > In my experience playing regularly with a good mix of new and old > collaborators keeps things really Sharp. > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: > >> I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in >> Reno canvassing for Obama. This speaks to both my realist stance on >> music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green >> (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good >> Green city council members. The Green mayor of Richmond forged a >> supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, >> including supporting their building renovation, which is going to >> make >> a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there >> (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, >> so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the >> ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are >> actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.) As >> we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological >> fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. >> >> So fewer people going to music are so, too. >> >> I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: >> >> No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art >> anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be >> produced >> to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser >> improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material >> they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is >> most often alternative in "surface aesthetic," not in questioning >> the >> socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that >> may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the >> picture. >> >> And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get >> Weasel's >> "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on >> the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a >> musician" >> >> My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society >> actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is >> down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often >> everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in >> churches, temples, etc.). With the advent of recording, fewer people >> actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking >> or sex; it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of >> the "professional." Music moved from an active to a passive >> experience. >> >> However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, >> distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, >> particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately >> able to >> step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording >> themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal >> use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and >> themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some >> sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, >> impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an >> artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s. What has >> emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is >> the >> meme of individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a >> "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of >> societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the >> destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- >> art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art >> has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical >> outsider. >> >> The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are >> more interested in their social station than allowing themselves >> to be >> in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own >> terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of >> course, affirms your social position. >> >> So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm >> what >> they believe about themselves. >> >> Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are >> we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? >> >> And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary >> vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this >> weekend, too. >> >> phoo, so much blather. . . >> >> mg >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: >> >>> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >>> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >>> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >>> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >>> out for more exposure. >>> >>> as for audience, >>> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >>> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >>> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >>> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >>> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >>> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >>> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >>> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >>> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >>> >>> Evan Parker played at 1510!? how did i miss that?!? >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic- >>> bounces at music.mills.edu >>> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> >>> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >>> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >>> pg >>> >>> >>> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >>> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >>> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >>> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >>> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >>> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >>> >>> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >>> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >>> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >>> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >>> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >>> >>> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >>> an audience. >>> >>> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >>> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >>> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >>> to eliminate obama). >>> >>> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >>> >>> laters, >>> pg >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >>>> Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>>> >>>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>>> maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>>> >>>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>>> cupcakes for Obama. >>>> >>>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>>> farce last week. >>>> >>>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>>> >>>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>>> people. For a new >>>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>>> that's fairly decent. >>>> >>>> 2. $20 cover charge, with a $15 student price. I must >>>> confess we showed up >>>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>>> strapped for cash, and >>>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>>> stay home and >>>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>>> >>>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>>> at 1510, hair >>>> washing >>>> >>>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>>> the ensemble. The >>>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>>> can remember the >>>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>>> and the >>>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>>> been audience >>>> performer equity - 50/50. >>>> >>>> sl >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Matthew Goodheart >> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> http://matthewgoodheart.com >> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 00:03:43 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:03:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky Message-ID: Does anyone know what I need to do when my ipod stops working? Last time it worked, I was using the internal stop watch. The screen went dark, and I can't get it to do anything now. Even when I hook it up to my computer, it doesn't show up in Itunes. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri Oct 31 00:10:42 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <08C113CC-655E-47AF-86F0-EE7345270673@pixar.com> Message-ID: <969420.79272.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i go because i love live music. i just thought i'd include that, as ridiculous as it may sound. pg --- On Thu, 10/30/08, David Slusser wrote: > From: David Slusser > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 10:12 AM > On Oct 30, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Michael Zelner wrote: > > > On 10/29/08, lx rudis wrote: > > > >> i have to voice one question, though: > >> > >> why _DO_ people go to shows? > > > > > > Many seem to go solely to hang out and talk with their > friends while > > the bands are playing (or to "hook up" with > "new friends"). > > > > Of course, this is less true at "new music" > shows, where many in the > > audience are "sullen loners." > > > > MZ > > wonderful > > Then there are those who go to shows to destroy the > performer's > equipment. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From mylesaudio at aol.com Fri Oct 31 01:14:47 2008 From: mylesaudio at aol.com (Myles Boisen) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:14:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Reset. RTFM. Myles Sorry for the brief message - this was sent from my iPhone On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:03 AM, "Matt Davignon" wrote: > Does anyone know what I need to do when my ipod stops working? Last > time it worked, I was using the internal stop watch. The screen went > dark, and I can't get it to do anything now. Even when I hook it up to > my computer, it doesn't show up in Itunes. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From polly.moller at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 06:30:38 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:30:38 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2eb068d40810310630w3365a581o817dbb00c1d09bc7@mail.gmail.com> This is the time to reset it. There are instructions online for resetting each iPod model. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Matt Davignon wrote: > Does anyone know what I need to do when my ipod stops working? Last > time it worked, I was using the internal stop watch. The screen went > dark, and I can't get it to do anything now. Even when I hook it up to > my computer, it doesn't show up in Itunes. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From liberatednsf at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 08:09:15 2008 From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Message-ID: <332056.48980.qm@web30508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> AND now I have an excuse for why I don't go to shows much anymore.? Sorry, busy watching ubu!? I do have to get off my butt and get to more shows.? I just let?Lytton, a Messiaen festival, Cooper-Moore, Andrea Neumann?and Thollem?pass through here.? Wow, I'm pretty embarrassed right now.? My actual?excuses are?I'm lazy and jaded.? Maybe I'll get to the Ligeti show.... Andrew ? http://oudevoida.blogspot.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Damon Smith To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:57:57 PM Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music Yeah, Ubu is the best! I used the last 30min. of Vito Acconci's? conversions: http://www.ubu.com/film/acconci_conversions.html To time my 30min of drone shift tonight (fun concert!). I needed to? watch it to get it off my ipod to make room for the Early Gary Hill? videos they just posted. The Acconci REALLY gets racy toward the end.? His soundworks are amazing too, and free on Ubu. He is for sure one? of my favorites of that era of performance/video art. On Oct 30, 2008, at 8:11 PM, andrew wilshusen wrote: > Ubu.com.? Thank you.? Truly. > > > Andrew > > > http://oudevoida.blogspot.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Damon Smith > To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 9:51:12 AM > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > I don't think it is any more or less dismal for the arts than it was > before. The "igeneration" has it's upside, too. > It is a whole lot easier to get access to the important work should > anyone have the interest (and if anyone does not have the interest in > the breadth of the field they are working in, they should pick > another). When I got interested in the music I had to spend thousands > of $$ on LPs to get a real overview of the music. Consequently, I was > one the few who even had a real overview of the music. This just > isn't the case anymore. > The same is true with other arts. With Ubu.com and current video > technology you have access to important work that was just sitting in > museum's vaults. > Also, in the last year museums have still been pretty crowded in my > experience, and that is here, LA, Jersusalem, Hamburg, Vienna, > Brussels, ect. > They like to cry about it, but trust me I love being in an empty > museum and it is a pretty rare occurrence these days. > > What I can say for myself is that I have been able to sustain a > regular enough audience, listener base and playing schedule to make > it worth continuing for going on 15 years now. > Playing regularly is important for improvised music the "great genius > coming down of the mountain" once a year approach very rarely works. > In my experience playing regularly with a good mix of new and old > collaborators keeps things really Sharp. > > > On Oct 28, 2008, at 11:44 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote: > >> I'll pipe in quickly - in fact I missed Djll;s piece because I was in >> Reno canvassing for Obama.? This speaks to both my realist stance on >> music and politics; on politics I'll take the Chomsky stance. Green >> (or whatever) works okay for local elections; there's been a few good >> Green city council members.? The Green mayor of Richmond forged a >> supportive relationship with the East Bay Center for Performing Arts, >> including supporting their building renovation, which is going to? >> make >> a big difference for the students and the artists that teach there >> (though no one from the scene ever comes out when I performed there, >> so I stopped doing it.) But on the national stage, the some of the >> ideologues at the GP want to forego working with those who are >> actually in power (see McKinney's response to Chomsky and Zinn.)? As >> we are coming off 8 years divide and conquer ideological >> fundamentalism, a pragmatic realist like Obama is the best we can do. >> >> So fewer people going to music are so, too. >> >> I actually agree with both Greelief and Walter: >> >> No one gives a fuck about art anymore, because what the hell is art >> anymore? Too often, for me, it is a commodity the needs to be? >> produced >> to justify it's own existence: A composer composes, and improviser >> improvises, because that is what they do, and the volume of material >> they create forms its own form of validation. So "alternative art" is >> most often alternative in "surface aesthetic,"? not in questioning? >> the >> socio/political/economic meaning of it's own production. Forms that >> may question the form of their delivery, are therefor out of the >> picture. >> >> And as part of the iGeneration "everyone is an artist" we get? >> Weasel's >> "too much art/too much information/not enough liesure time/money on >> the part of the consumers/more people in society trying to be a >> musician" >> >> My only quibble is that we actually have fewer people in society >> actually doing music than previously; the sales of home pianos is >> down, fewer music students, and in fact in early societies often >> everyone participated in the music making (as they still do in >> churches, temples, etc.).? With the advent of recording, fewer people >> actually do music as yet another element in their life, like cooking >> or sex;? it was the death of the "amateur" and became the purview of >> the "professional."? Music moved from an active to a passive >> experience. >> >> However, with the recent rise in easy access to recording, >> distributing, etc. those who did manage to pick up an instrument, >> particularly in a non-institutionalized idiom, was immediately? >> able to >> step into the world of the "professional" by simply recording >> themselves. (By recording oneself, even in an "amateur" or "personal >> use" context, the performer has transcended their immediate place and >> themselves into the realm of the "immortal" professional, in some >> sense, by creating something that is, in it's conception at least, >> impermeable to time). In it's most crass sense, validation as an >> artist is merely the click of a button and a few 0s and 1s.? What has >> emerged in the post-post-modern spectacle saturated environment is? >> the >> meme of? individualist "artist" in the 19th century sense; a >> "maverick" who's deep feeling and brilliance lead them outside of >> societies bounds, yet society needs them; a function of the >> destruction of the notion of a "professional" in the modernist high- >> art/low-art sense. In essence, the mainstream democratization of art >> has led to legions of those who believe themselves the radical >> outsider. >> >> The "art" is merely the byproduct of a social station; and folks are >> more interested in their social station than allowing themselves? >> to be >> in the passive position of experiencing a work of art on its own >> terms; it is more important to hear art like your art, which, of >> course, affirms your social position. >> >> So maybe people don't go to concerts for music; they go to affirm? >> what >> they believe about themselves. >> >> Which brings up the very pertinent question of just what the hell are >> we doing by putting on concerts? What is its purpose? >> >> And, for that matter, Nicholas Isherwood's concert of contemporary >> vocal works by Roman composers was pretty sparsely attended this >> weekend, too. >> >> phoo, so much blather. . . >> >> mg >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote: >> >>> well ... was trying to pack a number of thoughts in that post but >>> mainly comparisons with "our" music & 3rd party politics -- >>> basically no one gives a shit except those involved - and typically >>> those that are involved stick to their views/desires and don't sell >>> out for more exposure. >>> >>> as for audience, >>> i remember early 2001 the ACME series attendance tanked right with >>> bush coming into office, the dot-com bust, and 9/11 - and if economy >>> is going to be as bad as they say i'm expecting the same thing to >>> happen in 2009 - and i'm wondering if it already has -- i already >>> mentioned Djll - sfSound has been doing great this year, but our >>> show the week before i was hoping would sell out (~125) but we only >>> had about half that, which seemed to me more than just the typical >>> fall slump (our worst turnout has always been oct/nov) and must be >>> something else in the air (economy/depression/TV). >>> >>> Evan Parker played at 1510!?? how did i miss that?!? >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic- >>> bounces at music.mills.edu >>> ] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:06 PM >>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music >>> >>> strange, i posted this first, in response to matt's post, but it >>> didn't go through....i'm re-posting it. >>> pg >>> >>> >>> i'm with you ingalls. i was just spouting off on another list of how >>> disappointed i was with billy bang's show last week (what was i >>> thinking, though...really?). it seems like no one knows how to be >>> themselves anymore, and this whole trotting out of old cliches (from >>> Obama and McCain) seems to have produced an epidemic of lying >>> assholes with no imagination whatsoever. >>> >>> and yeah, we had a nice turnout for the first night of mockracy, but >>> the second night was abyssmal. the crowd on the first night was >>> mostly djll's friends, and significant others of the members of the >>> ensemble. if we eliminated those people both nights would have been >>> an embarrassment, in terms of audience turn out. >>> >>> and djll put a lot of work into that show, and it deserved to have >>> an audience. >>> >>> whatever, no one seems to give a fuck about art anymore. i realize >>> there are "other things" to think about these days (like how to >>> eliminate palin permanently, or how to deal with neo-nazi's planning >>> to eliminate obama). >>> >>> jeeze, i'm getting old and sounding even older. >>> >>> laters, >>> pg >>> >>> >>> --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: >>> >>>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> >>>> Subject: [NewMusic]? 3rd party music >>>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu >>>> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 3:14 PM >>>> Matt Ingalls wrote: >>>> >>>> surprised no politics talk here lately >>>>? maybe everyone is obsessed elsewhere.. >>>> >>>> -- we are actually all using our spare time to bake >>>> cupcakes for Obama. >>>> >>>> also surprised at dismal turnout for Djll's Mockracy >>>> farce last week. >>>> >>>> -- Possible reasons for the "dismal turnout": >>>> >>>> 1. the night I went (Saturday) there were about 20 - 30 >>>> people. For a new >>>> music show without "out of town" stars, >>>> that's fairly decent. >>>> >>>> 2. $20 cover charge, with? a $15 student price.? I must >>>> confess we showed up >>>> late so that we could get in for less, because I was >>>> strapped for cash, and >>>> my better half (bless his heart) would have been content to >>>> stay home and >>>> watch Anaconda 3 (with David Haselhoff). >>>> >>>> 3. A lot going on that same weekend: Evan Parker, good gig >>>> at 1510, hair >>>> washing >>>> >>>> 4. half of the potential audience were actually playing in >>>> the ensemble. The >>>> only two large ensemble shows in the past two years that I >>>> can remember the >>>> audience outnumbering the ensemble, were a free Mills show >>>> and the >>>> Moe!kestra at The Lab, though the latter might just have >>>> been audience >>>> performer equity - 50/50. >>>> >>>> sl >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic >> >> Matthew Goodheart >> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist >> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com >> http://matthewgoodheart.com >> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > Damon Smith > > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com > http://myspace.com/smithdamon > New solo project: > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic Damon Smith http://www.balancepointacoustics.com http://myspace.com/smithdamon New solo project: http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo _______________________________________________ Bay Area New Music Discussion Group NewMusic at music.mills.edu http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 08:46:05 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:46:05 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <969420.79272.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <08C113CC-655E-47AF-86F0-EE7345270673@pixar.com> <969420.79272.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0810310846u4bb85b41ke5c95c3f55c7bc22@mail.gmail.com> hi gang, ayn rand here again. i honestly did not intend to follow up, but i've seen enough that i feel provoked. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Phillip Greenlief wrote: > i go because i love live music. and i do also, phil. > > i just thought i'd include that, as ridiculous as it may sound. > i don't think it's ridiculous. imvho it is the _core_ reason that people _claim_ to justify attendance. but it does not answer my question. first, i'll quote myself: "why _DO_ people go to shows?" ^^^^^^ the majority of responses [and thank you for all of them] have been personal. here's the same question, asked for the second time, voiced differently: "Why does the PUBLIC attend live entertainment events?" ^^^^^^^^ x > > pg > > > --- On Thu, 10/30/08, David Slusser wrote: > > > From: David Slusser > > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > > Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 10:12 AM > > On Oct 30, 2008, at 9:50 AM, Michael Zelner wrote: > > > > > On 10/29/08, lx rudis wrote: > > > > > >> i have to voice one question, though: > > >> > > >> why _DO_ people go to shows? > > > > > > > > > Many seem to go solely to hang out and talk with their > > friends while > > > the bands are playing (or to "hook up" with > > "new friends"). > > > > > > Of course, this is less true at "new music" > > shows, where many in the > > > audience are "sullen loners." > > > > > > MZ > > > > wonderful > > > > Then there are those who go to shows to destroy the > > performer's > > equipment. > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri Oct 31 08:58:03 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 08:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810310846u4bb85b41ke5c95c3f55c7bc22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <969291.61524.qm@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > From: lx rudis > hi gang, ayn rand here again. i honestly did not intend to > follow up, but > i've seen enough that i feel provoked. > > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:10 AM, Phillip Greenlief > wrote: > > > i go because i love live music. > > > and i do also, phil. congratulations. my name is phillip, not phil. i'm not sure what your name is...is it lx or ayn? either way, happy halloween. > > i just thought i'd include that, as ridiculous as > it may sound. > > > > i don't think it's ridiculous. imvho it is the > _core_ reason that people > _claim_ to justify attendance. > > but it does not answer my question. > > first, i'll quote myself: > > "why _DO_ people go to shows?" > ^^^^^^ > > the majority of responses [and thank you for all of them] > have been > personal. > > here's the same question, asked for the second time, > voiced differently: > > "Why does the PUBLIC attend live entertainment > events?" pg: excuse me for misinterpreting you. i assumed when you asked why do people go to shows, you were asking why do i go to shows. how should i know why "people" go to shows. who are "these" people? you mean, why does mr and mrs ozzie and harriet go to a show? or do you mean why does frank and bill see a show? or do you mean why do old-time oakland residents want to go to eli's mile high club for a blues show? or do you mean why do people in los angeles who are flirting with the film industry go to shows? or perhaps you are asking why do youngsters who are trying to define themselves in terms of their generation go to shows? or perhaps you mean why do jazz afficionados go to shows. why do people feel drawn to spectacle? i have no idea how to answer any of those questions. how should i know what motivates human behavior? camus asked that question, and he couldn't come up with a straight answer either. i had a professor tell me when i was first starting to play that nobody listens and nobody cares. he said if you can really dig that, you're on the right track. i think he was right. i stopped caring about whether anyone was listening to me a long time ago and it helped my music tremendously. actually, it didn't help my playing, but it helped my feelings about performing in public. i know i'm the guy who was "disappointed" that there weren't more people for djll's show, but that's only because i knew he was paying outrageous prices for renting that place. djll has since sent an email saying he was really happy with the results, and that's good enough for me. there was a pretty good crowd there the first night, and the second night was poorly attended, but it didn't seem to slow us down - i thought the show was noticeably improved the second night. From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 10:39:21 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:39:21 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810310846u4bb85b41ke5c95c3f55c7bc22@mail.gmail.com> References: <08C113CC-655E-47AF-86F0-EE7345270673@pixar.com> <969420.79272.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7272233a0810310846u4bb85b41ke5c95c3f55c7bc22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: LX was like: > here's the same question, asked for the second time, voiced differently: > > "Why does the PUBLIC attend live entertainment events?" Frankly, I think the two main reason that the public attends shows are non-musical. 1) They go to be in the same room as a famous public figure that they like, and see the person do what they're famous for. 2) They identify with the music, so attending shows helps cement that identity and makes them feel like part of that community. From lx.rudis at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 10:45:43 2008 From: lx.rudis at gmail.com (lx rudis) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:45:43 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: References: <08C113CC-655E-47AF-86F0-EE7345270673@pixar.com> <969420.79272.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7272233a0810310846u4bb85b41ke5c95c3f55c7bc22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7272233a0810311045k292ee736rd93d960540d1da49@mail.gmail.com> thanks phil, matt. here's my punch line. we're all pretty schooled in metaphor here, so i hope this doesn't come from too far out in left field: "your teeth are like your friends: ignore them and they go away." ...thanks to my Dentist for this one. i have flossed religiously since he spake this unto me. l8r, ayn From weaselw at juno.com Fri Oct 31 09:53:47 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 09:53:47 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky Message-ID: <20081031.110038.3380.408.weaselw@juno.com> i'm pretty sure i-pods have a mechanical hard drive in them, so it probably died and you need to replace the drive. ww On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:03:43 -0700 "Matt Davignon" writes: > Does anyone know what I need to do when my ipod stops working? Last > time it worked, I was using the internal stop watch. The screen > went > dark, and I can't get it to do anything now. Even when I hook it up > to > my computer, it doesn't show up in Itunes. ____________________________________________________________ Live the good life! Click now for great retirement planning assistance! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mK7BuaxGTtAvJJikzCM2ae8gQce15KepJzBpNVgRhEvqPnA/ From polly.moller at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 10:59:03 2008 From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:59:03 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: <20081031.110038.3380.408.weaselw@juno.com> References: <20081031.110038.3380.408.weaselw@juno.com> Message-ID: <2eb068d40810311059k12583b08i8c0596cc7536854d@mail.gmail.com> Matt's iPod is way too new to need a new hard drive. I think resetting it will do the trick. P. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, weasel walter wrote: > i'm pretty sure i-pods have a mechanical hard drive in them, so it > probably died and you need to replace the drive. > > ww > > On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:03:43 -0700 "Matt Davignon" > writes: >> Does anyone know what I need to do when my ipod stops working? Last >> time it worked, I was using the internal stop watch. The screen >> went >> dark, and I can't get it to do anything now. Even when I hook it up >> to >> my computer, it doesn't show up in Itunes. > ____________________________________________________________ > Live the good life! Click now for great retirement planning assistance! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mK7BuaxGTtAvJJikzCM2ae8gQce15KepJzBpNVgRhEvqPnA/ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller ------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore ------------------------------------------------------------ From weaselw at juno.com Fri Oct 31 11:05:39 2008 From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:05:39 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky Message-ID: <20081031.110543.3380.411.weaselw@juno.com> maybe he smashed it with a hammer. ww On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 10:59:03 -0700 "Polly Moller" writes: > Matt's iPod is way too new to need a new hard drive. > I think resetting it will do the trick. > P. ____________________________________________________________ Live the good life! Click now for great retirement planning assistance! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mK7B0boO8Nd7jK3ZApF4R0WdSeA8hwT9TCFcAXdWZJTU6tQ/ From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 11:08:44 2008 From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40810311059k12583b08i8c0596cc7536854d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <602132.30508.qm@web58004.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Matt, I think you blew a fuse in your ipod by using it in the process of creating actual live music. You're not supposed to use it for that. It is only for playing back compressed recorded files of simulated sound coded in binary language. You crazy fool! What were you thinking. It's trash. Throw it away. Jacob Lindsay http://www.bayimproviser.com/jacoblindsay --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Polly Moller wrote: > From: Polly Moller > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 10:59 AM > Matt's iPod is way too new to need a new hard drive. > I think resetting it will do the trick. > P. > > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:53 AM, weasel walter > wrote: > > i'm pretty sure i-pods have a mechanical hard > drive in them, so it > > probably died and you need to replace the drive. > > > > ww > > > > On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:03:43 -0700 "Matt > Davignon" > > writes: > >> Does anyone know what I need to do when my ipod > stops working? Last > >> time it worked, I was using the internal stop > watch. The screen > >> went > >> dark, and I can't get it to do anything now. > Even when I hook it up > >> to > >> my computer, it doesn't show up in Itunes. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > Live the good life! Click now for great retirement > planning assistance! > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3mK7BuaxGTtAvJJikzCM2ae8gQce15KepJzBpNVgRhEvqPnA/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/pollymoller > ------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore > ------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From mattdavignon at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 11:12:18 2008 From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:12:18 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40810311059k12583b08i8c0596cc7536854d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20081031.110038.3380.408.weaselw@juno.com> <2eb068d40810311059k12583b08i8c0596cc7536854d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: All fixed! The resetty thing worked. I was using it as my timer at droneshift, which was probably a bad idea because it shuts off after 2 mins of not being touched. Then, 2 minutes before the end of my time allotment, it shut off completely and wouldn't turn back on. Resetting (holding menu and center for 10 seconds) worked, but it told me that the battery was completely empty. So either the battery completely drained in a matter of seconds, or it was still "running" with a black screen. Weird. Makes me want to buy a Mac. Matt From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 31 11:37:45 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:37:45 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Phillip's right - this monolithic "Public" is made up of individual people. It's hard to make generalizations. And we are also part of that public, so I think the personal responses are relevant. I like live music, too, and go to shows where I've previously enjoyed the musicians' work. However, I don't go to every show of every musician I like, and I don't go out to shows every day or night. I was trying to pin down why I go to the shows I do - why did I see musician x play last week and not three weeks ago? I don't claim to have special insight into the "Public," but here's a clue: at shows with audience numbers higher than 10, notice the audience tends to come in pairs or groups. Some of them might be there to be in the same room as the famous person or because they're stoked to see the musicians, but a lot of them are there because they're somewhat interested and their friends or significant other or potential-significant-other-to-be are going. A lot of it is social. It's people wanting to be with other people. As far as Matt's reason #2 goes, I think the music and community identification thing is inter-related. There are people that identify with a particular music community, and go to shows more for the community than the music, or who get into the music because of the people. Not to bring up another repeatedly-flogged horse, but I think this is more common for women. Maybe we can get a better idea of reasons for show-going if all the guys on this list with non-musician wives and girlfriends asked them why they go to certain shows and pass on others. sl on 10/31/08 10:39 AM, Matt Davignon at mattdavignon at gmail.com wrote: > LX was like: >> here's the same question, asked for the second time, voiced differently: >> >> "Why does the PUBLIC attend live entertainment events?" > > Frankly, I think the two main reason that the public attends shows are > non-musical. > 1) They go to be in the same room as a famous public figure that they > like, and see the person do what they're famous for. > 2) They identify with the music, so attending shows helps cement that > identity and makes them feel like part of that community. > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 31 11:43:28 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:43:28 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What a relief! I was worried that you might have pulled a Richard Gere but were too embarrassed to divulge it. Before you buy a Mac, think of all the other wonderful or at least useful things you could do with a couple thousand dollars and more, as over time, you will find that the cheapest, simplest whatever is not mac-compatible. sl on 10/31/08 11:12 AM, Matt Davignon at mattdavignon at gmail.com wrote: > All fixed! > > The resetty thing worked. > > I was using it as my timer at droneshift, ... > > Weird. Makes me want to buy a Mac. > > Matt From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 11:58:00 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 11:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Ipod no worky In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <521389.4523.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Before you buy a Mac, think of all the other wonderful or > at least useful > things you could do with a couple thousand dollars and > more, as over time, > you will find that the cheapest, simplest whatever is not > mac-compatible. yes please. stop paying the monolith. From Gino.Robair at penton.com Fri Oct 31 12:30:12 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:30:12 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] iPod no worky Message-ID: Praemedia wrote: <> Yeah, it's better to just get a Microsoft Windows-based machine. (ahem) From automatik at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 12:33:45 2008 From: automatik at gmail.com (Nick Ripley) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:33:45 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] iPod no worky In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26f1fc640810311233m7db2842fnf7429727bbb3d307@mail.gmail.com> I think the general idea is that it's more important WHAT you are doing, not what platform you are doing it from. Don't turn this into a stupid OS debate. Apple and MS are both big, shitty companies. --Nick On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > Praemedia wrote: > <> > > Yeah, it's better to just get a Microsoft Windows-based machine. (ahem) > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > -- http://hexasaurus.blogspot.com/ From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 12:42:50 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] iPod no worky In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <46544.44320.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> a windows based machine doesn't have to run on windows hardware or software and there's always linux. to tell the truth, microsoft is a hell of a lot less of a monopoly than apple, top to bottom. there are dozens of solutions. the apple vs microsoft debate is a sort of silly one. there is more to it than that and they are two very different hardware/software philosophies, of which apple's is proving to be the most closed. --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Robair, Gino wrote: > From: Robair, Gino > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] iPod no worky > To: "New Music" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:30 PM > Praemedia wrote: > <> > > Yeah, it's better to just get a Microsoft Windows-based > machine. (ahem) > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From Gino.Robair at penton.com Fri Oct 31 12:49:00 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:49:00 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk Message-ID: You took that bait too easily! ;-> The main point is, beyond the OS debate, whether it's Dell, Sony, or whomever, you have to be a "monolith" to even play in that game. Who makes those chips? Etc Better not to buy a computer at all and just go outside feel the sun on your skin.... Praemedia wrote: <> From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 12:54:31 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <123008.47319.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> no good these days. the computers are staring you down even outside. yep, but i grabbed it too quickly. but to continue biting - reading your reply just now, you proved my point. apple is a monolith. microsoft depends on a distributed system of hardware software companies (though it took them a while to realize this). i just hate to see music go the way of ipod/itunes closed systems, which is, in my opinion, really the only "evil" thing apple is doing at the moment (aside from all the "necessary" evils of doing business). up with FLAC! --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Robair, Gino wrote: > From: Robair, Gino > Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk > To: "New Music" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:49 PM > You took that bait too easily! ;-> > > The main point is, beyond the OS debate, whether it's > Dell, Sony, or > whomever, you have to be a "monolith" to even > play in that game. Who makes > those chips? Etc > > Better not to buy a computer at all and just go outside > feel the sun on your > skin.... > > Praemedia wrote: > < windows hardware or > software and there's always linux. to tell the truth, > microsoft is a hell of > a lot less of a monopoly than apple, top to bottom. there > are dozens of > solutions. the apple vs microsoft debate is a sort of silly > one. there is > more to it than that and they are two very different > hardware/software > philosophies, of which apple's is proving to be the > most closed. > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 31 12:56:07 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:56:07 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] iPod no worky In-Reply-To: <46544.44320.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One of the recent occasions where I confirmed my loathing for corporate-thinking and the mindset of the American people (or perhaps the corporate perception of the mindset of the American people) was at the Apple Store in Emeryville. I was looking for a particular item for my Mac that the monolithic Best Buys, Office Depots didn't carry. So I went to the Apple Store to look for it. I would think that if I made a product line used by a minority, that I would make sure to stock all the useful items that said product line requires that are not required by the majority product line. This would keep my minority users loyal. But no ... The Apple Store is wall to wall ipods, iphones and accessories for them. Don't get me started on the "Genius Bar" concept ...it almost made me throw up my hands and switch to a PC. sl on 10/31/08 12:42 PM, Praemedia at praemedia at yahoo.com wrote: > a windows based machine doesn't have to run on windows hardware or software > and there's always linux. to tell the truth, microsoft is a hell of a lot less > of a monopoly than apple, top to bottom. there are dozens of solutions. the > apple vs microsoft debate is a sort of silly one. there is more to it than > that and they are two very different hardware/software philosophies, of which > apple's is proving to be the most closed. > > > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Robair, Gino wrote: > >> From: Robair, Gino >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] iPod no worky >> To: "New Music" >> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:30 PM >> Praemedia wrote: >> <> >> >> Yeah, it's better to just get a Microsoft Windows-based >> machine. (ahem) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From automatik at gmail.com Fri Oct 31 12:59:04 2008 From: automatik at gmail.com (Nick Ripley) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:59:04 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26f1fc640810311259v5dcd0a89r2701aa9b289b203d@mail.gmail.com> I ordered a laptop from an ad in Utne Reader... The processor is made out of hemp grown by transgendered Ecuadorian ranchers, and the case is made from 100% recycled apple cores from elementary school lunch programs. It runs on bio diesel, and Barack Obama wrote all the software. Love it. --Nick On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Robair, Gino wrote: > You took that bait too easily! ;-> > > The main point is, beyond the OS debate, whether it's Dell, Sony, or > whomever, you have to be a "monolith" to even play in that game. Who makes > those chips? Etc > > Better not to buy a computer at all and just go outside feel the sun on > your > skin....m/ > From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 31 12:59:42 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:59:42 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: <123008.47319.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: on 10/31/08 12:54 PM, Praemedia at praemedia at yahoo.com wrote: > yep, but i grabbed it too quickly. I grabbed it too, Lance, if it makes you feel any better. > > but to continue biting - reading your reply just now, you proved my point. > apple is a monolith. microsoft depends on a distributed system of hardware > software companies (though it took them a while to realize this). But they both have their support flacks trained to tell you, "You have a problem? Why not upgrade or buy a new computer?" Of course, when it's Apple telling you this, they're suggesting you spend two to three times as much money. sl > From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 13:00:29 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: <26f1fc640810311259v5dcd0a89r2701aa9b289b203d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <182592.99820.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Is that the one where Bill Ayers tells you when you've got mail? --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Nick Ripley wrote: > From: Nick Ripley > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Iwonk > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:59 PM > I ordered a laptop from an ad in Utne Reader... The > processor is made out of > hemp grown by transgendered Ecuadorian ranchers, and the > case is made from > 100% recycled apple cores from elementary school lunch > programs. It runs on > bio diesel, and Barack Obama wrote all the software. Love > it. > > --Nick > > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Robair, Gino > wrote: > > > You took that bait too easily! ;-> > > > > The main point is, beyond the OS debate, whether > it's Dell, Sony, or > > whomever, you have to be a "monolith" to > even play in that game. Who makes > > those chips? Etc > > > > Better not to buy a computer at all and just go > outside feel the sun on > > your > > skin....m/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 13:02:21 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <947612.52726.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> and i always advise building your own computers, though this is less possible for laptops. my frankensteins' depend on me for all the "product support" and its fun too.... my services are available. build to order, but i hear tell that my customer service is awful.... --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote: > From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Iwonk > To: "Banewmus List" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:59 PM > on 10/31/08 12:54 PM, Praemedia at praemedia at yahoo.com > wrote: > > > yep, but i grabbed it too quickly. > > I grabbed it too, Lance, if it makes you feel any better. > > > > but to continue biting - reading your reply just now, > you proved my point. > > apple is a monolith. microsoft depends on a > distributed system of hardware > > software companies (though it took them a while to > realize this). > > But they both have their support flacks trained to tell > you, "You have a > problem? Why not upgrade or buy a new computer?" Of > course, when it's Apple > telling you this, they're suggesting you spend two to > three times as much > money. > > sl > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From 21grand at 21grand.org Fri Oct 31 13:04:32 2008 From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:04:32 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: <182592.99820.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, but only in Urdu or Esperanto. It also doesn't recognize that American imperialist concept called Daylight Savings Time. sl on 10/31/08 1:00 PM, Praemedia at praemedia at yahoo.com wrote: > Is that the one where Bill Ayers tells you when you've got mail? > > > --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Nick Ripley wrote: > >> From: Nick Ripley >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Iwonk >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" >> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 12:59 PM >> I ordered a laptop from an ad in Utne Reader... The >> processor is made out of >> hemp grown by transgendered Ecuadorian ranchers, and the >> case is made from >> 100% recycled apple cores from elementary school lunch >> programs. It runs on >> bio diesel, and Barack Obama wrote all the software. Love >> it. >> >> --Nick >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Robair, Gino >> wrote: >> >>> You took that bait too easily! ;-> >>> >>> The main point is, beyond the OS debate, whether >> it's Dell, Sony, or >>> whomever, you have to be a "monolith" to >> even play in that game. Who makes >>> those chips? Etc >>> >>> Better not to buy a computer at all and just go >> outside feel the sun on >>> your >>> skin....m/ >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From Gino.Robair at penton.com Fri Oct 31 13:10:46 2008 From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:10:46 -0500 Subject: [NewMusic] Baby's First iWonk Message-ID: Praemedia: <> I prefer the Sony model, where you have every level of "entertainment" covered: Content creation (software such as Acid, sample libraries, etc), digital audio editors, recording devices, playback devices (pro AND consumer), a mega-media company (record label, film house, etc), a distribution arm for each thing, etc, etc. From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 13:11:32 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Iwonk In-Reply-To: <123008.47319.qm@web51607.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409036.45450.qm@web51602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > i just hate to see music go the way of ipod/itunes closed > systems, which is, in my opinion, really the only > "evil" thing apple is doing at the moment (aside > from all the "necessary" evils of doing business). speaking of which, everyone should read up on the Google settlement that happened this week. Looks like all of our digital literature is moving towards an itunes model controlled by Google. Subscriptions and payments even for out-of-print and public domain material, etc., etc., etc. Not good news. From praemedia at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 13:13:14 2008 From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Baby's First iWonk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <844146.25970.qm@web51603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ugh. wouldn't buy a sony if my life depended on it, specifically for those reasons. they also have an incredibly closed and arcane sound software model which does not play nice with better sound equipment, such as firewire or usb soundcards..... --- On Fri, 10/31/08, Robair, Gino wrote: > From: Robair, Gino > Subject: [NewMusic] Baby's First iWonk > To: "New Music" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 1:10 PM > Praemedia: > < apple is a monolith. > microsoft depends on a distributed system of hardware > software companies > (though it took them a while to realize this). i just hate > to see music go > the way of ipod/itunes closed systems, which is, in my > opinion, really the > only "evil" thing apple is doing at the moment > (aside from all the > "necessary" evils of doing business). >> > > I prefer the Sony model, where you have every level of > "entertainment" > covered: Content creation (software such as Acid, sample > libraries, etc), > digital audio editors, recording devices, playback devices > (pro AND > consumer), a mega-media company (record label, film house, > etc), a > distribution arm for each thing, etc, etc. > > > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From td at pixar.com Fri Oct 31 17:56:08 2008 From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] Wilco/Colbert Message-ID: Nels Cline is on The Colbert Report, right now (with his rock & roll band.) -- Tom Duff. 1 of 2424996 matched. From pgsaxo at pacbell.net Fri Oct 31 18:05:43 2008 From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd party music In-Reply-To: <7272233a0810311045k292ee736rd93d960540d1da49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <14827.92642.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> he's still calling me phil.... --- On Fri, 10/31/08, lx rudis wrote: > From: lx rudis > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] 3rd party music > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" > Date: Friday, October 31, 2008, 10:45 AM > thanks phil, matt. > > here's my punch line. > we're all pretty schooled in metaphor here, so i hope > this doesn't come from > too far out in left field: > > "your teeth are like your friends: ignore them and > they go away." > > ...thanks to my Dentist for this one. i have flossed > religiously since he > spake this unto me. > > l8r, > ayn > _______________________________________________ > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group > NewMusic at music.mills.edu > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic From mhenry at crypticstudios.com Fri Oct 31 23:12:25 2008 From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 23:12:25 -0700 Subject: [NewMusic] 3rd Party music, Ipod no worky, Baby's first iWonk, Sony, Wilco, etc. Message-ID: Arrggghhhhhhh.........my head! Free Bird !!!!!!