From mmcdonal at library.berkeley.edu  Fri Jan  2 14:13:39 2009
From: mmcdonal at library.berkeley.edu (mmcdonal at library.berkeley.edu)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:13:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 33, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1230872403.8428.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1230872403.8428.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <57624.63.203.64.106.1230934419.squirrel@calmail.berkeley.edu>

I used to wonder if Toyoji would have a stroke when he played the trombone
wildly because his face would turn really red. When he started to take
high blood pressure meds the red face stopped!  Tom, you get a little red
in the face, too. Be careful. Hum, wonder what medical issues a harper
has, maybe breaking one's back carrying around such a heavy instrustment
plus a huge amp since no one can hear the it.  Marianne
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:34:57 -0800
> From: Tom Dill <djll at sonic.net>
> Subject: [NewMusic] stroke
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Message-ID: <A850DFC0-8526-4916-91BF-115B70CC42B7 at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> "Writing in the journal Neurology, he said professional musicians
> appeared to have an inborn or learned ability to control the pressure
> wind instruments place on their body."
>
> ... thus decreasing their risk of stroke, a risk factor more than
> offset by the well-documented stresses professional musicians must
> undergo to keep gigging.
>
> At the top of that list: The wearing of ties and buttoned collars to
> the gig.
>
> td
> On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:
>
>>> From: David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
>>> Subject: [NewMusic] So long
>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 4:46 PM
>>> Feet of Clay
>>>
>>> makes you wonder:
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/948374.stm




From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 23:37:46 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 23:37:46 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Late partying neighbors?
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901022337l40bf847aqc33df8cd967eb6b@mail.gmail.com>

Why not get 'em up bright and early by getting a long-crowing rooster?

http://www.homegrownevolution.com/2009/01/hey-wake-up-its-new-year-world-of-long.html

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 01:08:21 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 01:08:21 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] anyone need a tenor sax case?
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901030108j3f752157tfc73dbb6ed9ab9f1@mail.gmail.com>

the soft kind. slight tear in it, free. my neighbor down the street
has it sitting on the curb. if someone needs one, i'll grab it,
looks to me like it's in pretty good shape.
k

-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Sat Jan  3 05:46:00 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:46:00 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Late partying neighbors?
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901022337l40bf847aqc33df8cd967eb6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0901022337l40bf847aqc33df8cd967eb6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901030546mf543506xa12484e1b0851e3f@mail.gmail.com>

Thousands of years of selective breeding and the best they can come up
with is a variety that's MORE obnoxious than the usual pedigree?
Yowza. You'd think one would rather breed for such traits as an
instinctive urge to slowly raise the lights, light some aromatherapy
candles, start the coffeepot, lay an egg or 2 (in frying pan, no less)
and then saunter over to the bedside to gently nuzzle your face,
clucking gently until you wake up, grateful for your wonderful flock
of walking poultry.

And yes, I am aware that roosters don't lay eggs, but eh, maybe he
could micromanage between the candles and the nuzzling or something...

On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 2:37 AM, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why not get 'em up bright and early by getting a long-crowing rooster?
>
> http://www.homegrownevolution.com/2009/01/hey-wake-up-its-new-year-world-of-long.html
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From michaelz at zoka.com  Mon Jan  5 14:28:46 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:28:46 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Venue for Spinal Tap?
Message-ID: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@[192.168.0.2]>

Trying to beat Gino to the punch on this story:

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/4108867/Stonehenge-was-giant-concert-venue.html>

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Mon Jan  5 14:54:50 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:54:50 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Venue for Spinal Tap?
In-Reply-To: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <5F5977F0-8A32-4EA6-B126-DDB0163088D0@matthewgoodheart.com>

Cool stuff.

I was also reading recently about Mayan acoustics: apparently they  
were pretty sonically oriented engineers; things like the Great Ball  
Court and the Castillo at Chichen Itza do all sorts of amazing  
stuff. . . a bit later than Stonehenge, but. . .

. . . travel grant anyone?

mg

On Jan 5, 2009, at 2:28 PM, Michael Zelner wrote:

> Trying to beat Gino to the punch on this story:
>
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/4108867/Stonehenge-was-giant-concert-venue.html 
> >
>
> MZ
>
>
> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>             Michael Zelner
> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 17:14:25 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:14:25 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Venue for Spinal Tap?
In-Reply-To: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@192.168.0.2>
References: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@192.168.0.2>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901051714o567c9230x1e67d48d6dcd9641@mail.gmail.com>

"A university professor who is an expert in sound and a part-time DJ
believes Stonehenge was created as a dance arena for listening to
"trance-style" music."

Of all the dumb ideas...

I'm sure somewhere there's a university professor who's a crazy cat
lady who thinks that cats are the earthbound manifestations of little
angels, but I don't see an article about her (yet).

Matt

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:
> Trying to beat Gino to the punch on this story:
>
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/4108867/Stonehenge-was-giant-concert-venue.html>
>
> MZ
>
>
> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>             Michael Zelner
> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Mon Jan  5 18:36:54 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:36:54 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Who was that Cuica?
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901051714o567c9230x1e67d48d6dcd9641@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@192.168.0.2>
	<c70e517b0901051714o567c9230x1e67d48d6dcd9641@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22882E91-4AB2-4B02-9419-8D4F5FD68F28@matthewgoodheart.com>

About 14 million years ago I heard this Samba piece - traditional  
stuff from the Rio Carnival - with this Cuica player who knocked me  
out. Not only did he take this unbelievably in tune and clear melodic  
solo in the middle, but nailed the modulation when the group went up a  
step. . . any chance anyone a knows a recording of something like  
this.  . . percussionistas?

mg


Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From mhenry at crypticstudios.com  Mon Jan  5 21:38:25 2009
From: mhenry at crypticstudios.com (Michael Henry)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:38:25 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Venue for Spinal Tap?
Message-ID: <C73CE12E0E2E6D4AA8C97475050023A60FE9004690@proserpine.paragon.crypticstudios.com>

Even more ridiculous is that the author (anonymous) of this piece of fluff fails to mention that this university professor is hardly the first to come up with the theory that Stonhenge had some unique acoustic. Paul Devereux's "Stone Age Soundtracks - The Acoustic Archaeology of Ancient Sites" devotes a section to research into Stonehenge's acoustic:

"Among the sites to receive the more recent attentions of Watson and Keating has been Stonehenge, the most famous megalithic monument of them all. There the two reprised their pink noise survey method, moving the microphone around the site between the stones to map out how the sound behaved.....Watson referred to the way the stones of Stonhenge influenced the behavior of sound as "very dramatic."

"Watson and Keating found sound to be its most clearest on the axis of the monument - the very line that points towards the midsummer sunrise position."


No cat ladies were harmed during the course of this experiment.

-MH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Davignon: wrote:

"A university professor who is an expert in sound and a part-time DJ
believes Stonehenge was created as a dance arena for listening to
"trance-style" music."

Of all the dumb ideas...

I'm sure somewhere there's a university professor who's a crazy cat
lady who thinks that cats are the earthbound manifestations of little
angels, but I don't see an article about her (yet).

Matt

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:
> Trying to beat Gino to the punch on this story:

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Mon Jan  5 23:18:50 2009
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 01:18:50 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
Message-ID: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD34A9E8B4500@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>

Because MZ is faster than GR!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSb-nV8l2QY

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  6 08:21:58 2009
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:21:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Who was that Cuica?
References: <p062408c0c58839d7d005@192.168.0.2>
	<c70e517b0901051714o567c9230x1e67d48d6dcd9641@mail.gmail.com>
	<22882E91-4AB2-4B02-9419-8D4F5FD68F28@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <817684.46099.qm@web30501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've found the rhythm sections on the Samba music?I own are almost always?anonymous.? Of course, considering the size of?a Escola Carnaval Bateria (for example),?whose cuica section alone can have?25 players, it's no suprise.??There is an awesome cuica player on some of guitarist/composer/songleader Joao Bosco's albums.? 

After shopping around for cuicas in the Bay Area once and finding nothing but overpriced?crap, I spent a week or so making three of them out of coffee cans, rawhide and chopsticks.? Part of the genre of hard-as-hell-to-find-the-note-but-really-easy-to-be-annoying-with instruments which also includes the musical saw and theramin.

On a similar note, anybody know the name of the incredible?Bay Area-based?pandiero player who did overdubs on an album I?engineered in San Francisco circa 2001?

Andrew
?


http://oudevoida.blogspot.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 6:36:54 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Who was that Cuica?

About 14 million years ago I heard this Samba piece - traditional? 
stuff from the Rio Carnival - with this Cuica player who knocked me? 
out. Not only did he take this unbelievably in tune and clear melodic? 
solo in the middle, but nailed the modulation when the group went up a? 
step. . . any chance anyone a knows a recording of something like? 
this.? . . percussionistas?

mg


Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From djmoderne at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 10:50:16 2009
From: djmoderne at gmail.com (Ken Ueno)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:50:16 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at 8pm
Message-ID: <13ddbfd10901061050m21734066w462988f29d4de1ab@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

I am pleased to announce the first concert of OpenSound West, a monthly
improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at 8pm.

Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself.  Special guest will be Timothy
Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).

Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am energized by the great
community of artists here, and look forward to meeting more of you soon.

All the best for a Happy New Year!

Ken

-- 
Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
http://www.kenueno.com

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 11:33:53 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:33:53 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at
	8pm
In-Reply-To: <13ddbfd10901061050m21734066w462988f29d4de1ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13ddbfd10901061050m21734066w462988f29d4de1ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901061133h3a8abd89u4ea7b71100304710@mail.gmail.com>

events list anyone?

indiscriminate poopooing - the tie that binds...




On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Ken Ueno <djmoderne at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I am pleased to announce the first concert of OpenSound West, a monthly
> improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at 8pm.
>
> Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
> Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself.  Special guest will be Timothy
> Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).
>
> Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am energized by the great
> community of artists here, and look forward to meeting more of you soon.
>
> All the best for a Happy New Year!
>
> Ken
>
> --
> Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
> Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
> http://www.kenueno.com
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 11:35:58 2009
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:35:58 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at
	8pm
In-Reply-To: <13ddbfd10901061050m21734066w462988f29d4de1ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13ddbfd10901061050m21734066w462988f29d4de1ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40901061135k2e3f05f6x7c309459f21a0f4f@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome, Ken -- you are Sausage of the Day! :)
This list is where we discuss, and the events list is where we plug gigs.
P.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Ken Ueno <djmoderne at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I am pleased to announce the first concert of OpenSound West, a monthly
> improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at 8pm.
>
> Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
> Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself.  Special guest will be Timothy
> Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).
>
> Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am energized by the great
> community of artists here, and look forward to meeting more of you soon.
>
> All the best for a Happy New Year!
>
> Ken
>
> --
> Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
> Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
> http://www.kenueno.com
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
------------------------------------------------------------

From michaelz at zoka.com  Tue Jan  6 11:41:49 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:41:49 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
In-Reply-To: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD34A9E8B4500@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>
References: <C65FA6D01E469549B210B278C2EC8BD34A9E8B4500@MAILSRV2.pme.penton.com>
Message-ID: <p062408cec588dae58ee6@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/6/09, Robair, Gino wrote:

>Because MZ is faster than GR!!!
>
>www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSb-nV8l2QY


Gino, have you ever dressed as a banana at a public screening of this film?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rejected>

MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 13:21:02 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:21:02 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at
	8pm
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40901061135k2e3f05f6x7c309459f21a0f4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <13ddbfd10901061050m21734066w462988f29d4de1ab@mail.gmail.com>
	<2eb068d40901061135k2e3f05f6x7c309459f21a0f4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901061321n26e362bbjd041c1929b2b19f3@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it's not such a sausage - the launch of a new series is worthy
of a post on the discussion list, isn't it?

btw, for future events, the events list is here:
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusicevents
...and it has more subscribers.

Matt

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
> Welcome, Ken -- you are Sausage of the Day! :)
> This list is where we discuss, and the events list is where we plug gigs.
> P.
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Ken Ueno <djmoderne at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I am pleased to announce the first concert of OpenSound West, a monthly
>> improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at 8pm.
>>
>> Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
>> Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself.  Special guest will be Timothy
>> Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).
>>
>> Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am energized by the great
>> community of artists here, and look forward to meeting more of you soon.
>>
>> All the best for a Happy New Year!
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> --
>> Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
>> Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
>> http://www.kenueno.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jan  6 20:56:11 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:56:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at
	8pm
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901061321n26e362bbjd041c1929b2b19f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <797916.98643.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i'm going to make it a no-calorie sausage by saying i'm really happy to hear of this series. this makes the series officially "discussable", so any previous sausage preparation will be held unredeemable.

cnmat is a nice room, you don't have to get a ton of folks in there to feel like there's a crowd, and the space is really aesthetically pleasing. it's also been running for decades. i saw shows there in the late 70's. so it has a great history, and i'm glad someone has stepped up to make things happen there on a regular basis. mr. wessell has done a great job of putting on shows there from time to time, but he has his hands full...

i'm plannning on going down there on saturday. see you there.

pg


--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at 8pm
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:21 PM
> Well, it's not such a sausage - the launch of a new
> series is worthy
> of a post on the discussion list, isn't it?
> 
> btw, for future events, the events list is here:
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusicevents
> ...and it has more subscribers.
> 
> Matt
> 
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Polly Moller
> <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Welcome, Ken -- you are Sausage of the Day! :)
> > This list is where we discuss, and the events list is
> where we plug gigs.
> > P.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Ken Ueno
> <djmoderne at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> I am pleased to announce the first concert of
> OpenSound West, a monthly
> >> improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at
> 8pm.
> >>
> >> Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt
> Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
> >> Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself. 
> Special guest will be Timothy
> >> Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).
> >>
> >> Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am
> energized by the great
> >> community of artists here, and look forward to
> meeting more of you soon.
> >>
> >> All the best for a Happy New Year!
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
> >> Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
> >> http://www.kenueno.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From djmoderne at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 21:29:40 2009
From: djmoderne at gmail.com (Ken Ueno)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:29:40 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at
	8pm
In-Reply-To: <797916.98643.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <c70e517b0901061321n26e362bbjd041c1929b2b19f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<797916.98643.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <13ddbfd10901062129s6af828bdl7b548d1a537ea89b@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Sorry for a newbie's indiscretion!  I'm still learning the proper protocol.
Thank you to those who helped advise me as to the proper way.

All the best,

Ken

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>wrote:

> i'm going to make it a no-calorie sausage by saying i'm really happy to
> hear of this series. this makes the series officially "discussable", so any
> previous sausage preparation will be held unredeemable.
>
> cnmat is a nice room, you don't have to get a ton of folks in there to feel
> like there's a crowd, and the space is really aesthetically pleasing. it's
> also been running for decades. i saw shows there in the late 70's. so it has
> a great history, and i'm glad someone has stepped up to make things happen
> there on a regular basis. mr. wessell has done a great job of putting on
> shows there from time to time, but he has his hands full...
>
> i'm plannning on going down there on saturday. see you there.
>
> pg
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat.
> at 8pm
> > To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> > Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:21 PM
> > Well, it's not such a sausage - the launch of a new
> > series is worthy
> > of a post on the discussion list, isn't it?
> >
> > btw, for future events, the events list is here:
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusicevents
> > ...and it has more subscribers.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Polly Moller
> > <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Welcome, Ken -- you are Sausage of the Day! :)
> > > This list is where we discuss, and the events list is
> > where we plug gigs.
> > > P.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Ken Ueno
> > <djmoderne at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dear All,
> > >>
> > >> I am pleased to announce the first concert of
> > OpenSound West, a monthly
> > >> improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at
> > 8pm.
> > >>
> > >> Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt
> > Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
> > >> Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself.
> > Special guest will be Timothy
> > >> Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).
> > >>
> > >> Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am
> > energized by the great
> > >> community of artists here, and look forward to
> > meeting more of you soon.
> > >>
> > >> All the best for a Happy New Year!
> > >>
> > >> Ken
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
> > >> Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
>

From jfheule at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 01:45:08 2009
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:45:08 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at
	8pm
In-Reply-To: <797916.98643.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <c70e517b0901061321n26e362bbjd041c1929b2b19f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<797916.98643.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860901070145h24d0cd52jbd603beeb1a85294@mail.gmail.com>

phillip, not to dissuade you from attending the cnmat show, which
looks really good, but please show up to our sextet gig at soja
martial arts studio on saturday. i'm sure we can wing it without you,
but c'mon.

i guess one show's in san francisco, one's in berkeley, and one's in
oakland, but goddamn all this competition.

jacob
--
Sat 1/10 8:00 PM $6-$10 suggested donation Soja [2406 Webster,
Oakland, between 24th & 25th St. (near 19th St. BART, 1 block from 21
Grand)]
Improvised Music & Movement: Soja Martial Arts Studio presents a
special CD Release Concert for "Idea of West" (Creative Sources)
featuring Tony Dryer, Jacob Felix Heule, and Jacob Lindsay. Also
performing is Sextet: Kristian Aspelin (guitar), Tony Dryer
(contrabass), Phillip Greenlief (saxophones), Jacob Felix Heule
(drums), Jacob Lindsay (clarinets), and Kanoko Nishi (koto), with
special guest Peter Ajemian and others performing traditional martial
arts.

http://www.heule.us
http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/



On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
> i'm going to make it a no-calorie sausage by saying i'm really happy to hear of this series. this makes the series officially "discussable", so any previous sausage preparation will be held unredeemable.
>
> cnmat is a nice room, you don't have to get a ton of folks in there to feel like there's a crowd, and the space is really aesthetically pleasing. it's also been running for decades. i saw shows there in the late 70's. so it has a great history, and i'm glad someone has stepped up to make things happen there on a regular basis. mr. wessell has done a great job of putting on shows there from time to time, but he has his hands full...
>
> i'm plannning on going down there on saturday. see you there.
>
> pg
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Inaugural of New Improv Series at CNMAT this Sat. at 8pm
>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:21 PM
>> Well, it's not such a sausage - the launch of a new
>> series is worthy
>> of a post on the discussion list, isn't it?
>>
>> btw, for future events, the events list is here:
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusicevents
>> ...and it has more subscribers.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Polly Moller
>> <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Welcome, Ken -- you are Sausage of the Day! :)
>> > This list is where we discuss, and the events list is
>> where we plug gigs.
>> > P.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Ken Ueno
>> <djmoderne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear All,
>> >>
>> >> I am pleased to announce the first concert of
>> OpenSound West, a monthly
>> >> improv series at CNMAT this Saturday, Jan. 10 at
>> 8pm.
>> >>
>> >> Playing on this show will be: Gino Robair, Matt
>> Ingalls, Matthew Goodheart,
>> >> Nils Bultmann, Amadeus Regucera, and myself.
>> Special guest will be Timothy
>> >> Feeney (http://www.timfeeney.com/).
>> >>
>> >> Hope to see you there.  New to the area, I am
>> energized by the great
>> >> community of artists here, and look forward to
>> meeting more of you soon.
>> >>
>> >> All the best for a Happy New Year!
>> >>
>> >> Ken
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ken Ueno, Ph.D., FAAR '07
>> >> Assistant Professor, UC Berkeley
>> >> http://www.kenueno.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From mistermeridies at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 04:43:05 2009
From: mistermeridies at gmail.com (Mr. Meridies)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:43:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] S. Clay Wilson benefit show at Hemlock - questions
Message-ID: <5d9bc59d0901070443g4cb759e8ybcf1993655ba0398@mail.gmail.com>

Hola all,


Seriously thinking about coming out for this on Sunday (brackets various
interests of mine - comics art, offending people (Wilson that is), improv,
noise, and beer), but wonder if any of you on the bi has more info.  Show
time is listed as 6pm and there's like 40 acts or something, so that makes
sense, but I'd like to know the performing order and if 7pm - or later - is
more realistic than 6.



Thanks,


Bob

From derekged at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  7 08:05:25 2009
From: derekged at hotmail.com (Derek Gedalecia)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:05:25 +0000
Subject: [NewMusic] S. Clay Wilson benefit show at Hemlock - detailed
 answers
In-Reply-To: <5d9bc59d0901070443g4cb759e8ybcf1993655ba0398@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d9bc59d0901070443g4cb759e8ybcf1993655ba0398@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL113-W7992680C7F27B810AF1D4D4DF0@phx.gbl>


Hello Bob and List,

I hope this is not out of place but here is some detail.
The 1/11 sunday show is intended to start by 6:30PM and end by Midnight.
The idea is to have modular setup and zero downtime.

Since most of these acts are solo or duo experimental outfits, 4 or 5 will setup
at once with people playing as they are ready to go.

Here are approximate times from start to finish. Hope everyone can join us!

6: 25-6:40 terror apart, slusser, b.s. detector, amphibious gestures, fognozzle
 9:00pm ish? horaflora, headboggle, dryer/heule, heartworm
10:40pm ish? loachfillet, skullcaster, albee/szelag
11:30ish? anvil encephalopathy (bran...pos "metal?" project) 

more:
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1471332/

Take care and all the best,
Derek



> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:43:05 -0800
> From: mistermeridies at gmail.com
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: [NewMusic] S. Clay Wilson benefit show at Hemlock - questions
> 
> Hola all,
> 
> 
> Seriously thinking about coming out for this on Sunday (brackets various
> interests of mine - comics art, offending people (Wilson that is), improv,
> noise, and beer), but wonder if any of you on the bi has more info.  Show
> time is listed as 6pm and there's like 40 acts or something, so that makes
> sense, but I'd like to know the performing order and if 7pm - or later - is
> more realistic than 6.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_________________________________________________________________
Windows LiveTM: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Wed Jan  7 09:51:43 2009
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:51:43 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
Message-ID: <C58A2BAF.1B988%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

MZ wrote:
<<Gino, have you ever dressed as a banana at a public screening of this
film?>>

Well, uh, yes. Yes, I have.




From liz_abet at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  7 12:29:12 2009
From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (liz allbee)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] (no subject)
Message-ID: <213445.98508.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html


      

From michaelz at zoka.com  Wed Jan  7 12:58:13 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:58:13 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
In-Reply-To: <C58A2BAF.1B988%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
References: <C58A2BAF.1B988%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <p062408dfc58aaa382568@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/7/09, Robair, Gino wrote:

>MZ wrote:
><<Gino, have you ever dressed as a banana at a public screening of this
>film?>>
>
>Well, uh, yes. Yes, I have.


He's right, you know -- I just found a photo of this:

<http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2031/2426373622_d007dcf6ae.jpg>

MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jan  7 13:15:34 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:15:34 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
In-Reply-To: <p062408dfc58aaa382568@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <C58A5B76.28EF5%21grand@21grand.org>

Those are some scrawny legs. Thanks, Michael, I wouldn't have known
otherwise, though I wasn't particularly curious.

sl

on 1/7/09 12:58 PM, Michael Zelner at michaelz at zoka.com wrote:

> On 1/7/09, Robair, Gino wrote:
> 
>> MZ wrote:
>> <<Gino, have you ever dressed as a banana at a public screening of this
>> film?>>
>> 
>> Well, uh, yes. Yes, I have.
> 
> 
> He's right, you know -- I just found a photo of this:
> 
> <http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2031/2426373622_d007dcf6ae.jpg>
> 
> MZ
> 
> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>              Michael Zelner
> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  7 13:46:17 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:46:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <213445.98508.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <213445.98508.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W3750C586FB40811181987BC1DF0@phx.gbl>


Well, I know the Gaza situation has nothing to do with music, but neitherdoes Don Hertzfeldt or folks in banana suits.I went over to the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires today, and joined a largedemonstration, screaming "asesinos" (assassins) and hurling garbage and paintbombs at the building along with everyone else until the riot police came. No, nothing was accomplished.But it was inspiring nonetheless.-George> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:12 -0800> From: liz_abet at yahoo.com > http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-> hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html
_________________________________________________________________
Windows LiveTM: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 13:55:40 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:55:40 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W3750C586FB40811181987BC1DF0@phx.gbl>
References: <213445.98508.qm@web33103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BLU136-W3750C586FB40811181987BC1DF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901071355k7424e569hdbb1c4be9820d990@mail.gmail.com>

George Cremaschi - Bassist, Composer, Revolutionary. We salute you.

In the meantime, I just got a post from a musician who was scheduled
to play on a show I was organizing in Feb. Apparently, he was turned
away at the Canadian border due to a theremin switched on in his bag
that drove a security puppy into a frenzy... here's his tome - dude
plays under the name of My Cell Phone is Better than Your Cell Phone,
if you'd like to send your sympathies.

"Here is the basic? story? of my ordea?l at the borde?r last night?.?.?.

The greyh?ound gets to the borde?r for Ft. Erie/? Buffa?lo.? I go
throu?gh custo?ms,? they check? my ID and get the story? about? my
tour and whatn?ot.?.?.? It all check?s out. So they tell me to grab my
bags from the bus for inspe?ction? (?happe?ns to every?one)? So when I
bring? my bags in, I guess? my there?min was on. When not plugg?ed in
it makes? a super? high frequency pitch?.

Well.?.?.? this set their? sniff?er dog into a huge fucki?ng frenz?y.
.?.? So they tear throu?gh my lugga?ge like they just found? the world
'?s large?st drug deale?r or somet?hing.?.?.? The dog singles out the
there?min.? So they tear it apart?,? start? askin?g quest?ions about
what it is, what its purpo?se is, is it a bomb or what?

I think? this is almos?t humou?rous but they see nothi?ng funny? about
 it at all. They go throu?gh every?thing? I had with me, dropp?ing my
lapto?p,? break?ing a synth? and scrat?ching? the fuck out of my guita
r in the proce?ss.?.?.

They then take me into the back,? strip? searc?h me (no "?rubbe?r
glove?"? treat?ment,? thankfully?)? Then they put me in handc?uffs and
I am told to wait in a small? room for "a bit" Well that bit was 2
hours?.?.?.? Then I went into an inter?rogat?ion room where? they
questioned? me about? a blog I used to write?.?.?.? like 5 years? ago!
!?!? Yes.?.?.? there? was some anti-?Ameri?can senti?ment smatt?ered
throu?ghout? the blog.? I was again?st their? butch?ering? of Iraqi?s
and I spoke? about? it.?.?.? Well.?.?.? this did not go over well with
the borde?r guys.? They basic?ally told me that I was being? held on
suspi?cion of trans?porti?ng arms.?.?.? EVEN THOUG?H THEY KNEW IT WAS
A THERE?MIN AT THIS POINT?!?!?!

So final?ly,? a Canad?ian Immig?ratio?n offic?ial came to be my liaso
n.? He under?stood? the situa?tion and thoug?ht it was almos?t comic
al.?.?.? I would? have too had it not been me. He got them to take the
cuffs? off of me and after? almos?t 7 hours?,? let me go back to
Canada.?.?.

But they told me I was denie?d acces?s and to not even bothe?r tryin?g
to cross? a borde?r for awhil?e.?.?.? I told them they could?n'?t
fucki?ng pay me to go back there?.?.?.

So yeah.?.?.? if you think? the Patri?ot Act is a good thing?,? try
writi?ng a blog,? waiti?ng like 5 years? and then try to trave?l.
They fucki?ng see every?thing? and I imagi?ne they are readi?ng this.
.?.

I am so fucki?ng glad I am Canad?ian.?.?.? The US owes me a new fucki
ng there?min!?"



On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 4:46 PM, George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I know the Gaza situation has nothing to do with music, but neitherdoes Don Hertzfeldt or folks in banana suits.I went over to the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires today, and joined a largedemonstration, screaming "asesinos" (assassins) and hurling garbage and paintbombs at the building along with everyone else until the riot police came. No, nothing was accomplished.But it was inspiring nonetheless.-George> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:12 -0800> From: liz_abet at yahoo.com > http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-> hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows LiveTM: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From jfheule at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 13:58:24 2009
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:58:24 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
In-Reply-To: <C58A5B76.28EF5%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <p062408dfc58aaa382568@192.168.0.2>
	<C58A5B76.28EF5%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860901071358h27bb2363sccd77ffdc48b411a@mail.gmail.com>

you would've know that and a lot more if you had come to temescal arts
center last month.

jacob
--
http://www.heule.us
http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/



On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> Those are some scrawny legs. Thanks, Michael, I wouldn't have known
> otherwise, though I wasn't particularly curious.
>
> sl

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Wed Jan  7 14:26:05 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:26:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860901071358h27bb2363sccd77ffdc48b411a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C58A6BFD.28EFE%21grand@21grand.org>

Jacob,

You're making it sound like I should be glad I didn't go! I did go last
night, however.  It's a nice little space, though the front door could use
some work, but the bleacher sitting is good for a geography lesson.

sl

on 1/7/09 1:58 PM, jacob felix heule at jfheule at gmail.com wrote:

> you would've know that and a lot more if you had come to temescal arts
> center last month.
> 
> jacob
> --
> http://www.heule.us
> http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
> new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
>> Those are some scrawny legs. Thanks, Michael, I wouldn't have known
>> otherwise, though I wasn't particularly curious.
>> 
>> sl
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



From slusser at pixar.com  Wed Jan  7 15:22:33 2009
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:22:33 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] future of musicianship
In-Reply-To: <5d9bc59d0901070443g4cb759e8ybcf1993655ba0398@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5d9bc59d0901070443g4cb759e8ybcf1993655ba0398@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63D9BEB8-685B-4CA1-BCB5-0AF04D5738F3@pixar.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ug3f7jhztg&eurl=http://www.google.com/ 
reader/view/

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  7 16:18:28 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:18:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] future of musicianship
References: <5d9bc59d0901070443g4cb759e8ybcf1993655ba0398@mail.gmail.com>
	<63D9BEB8-685B-4CA1-BCB5-0AF04D5738F3@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <430213.16531.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

It's only a matter of time before those gadgets are replaced by a more powerful iphone with little pictures of said gadgets which can be linked up with a virtual octopus...

and then eventually those more powerful iphones can be linked up to other more powerful iphones with little pictures of former aforementioned gadgets by a real life octopus...

which can eventually be replaced by an even more powerful iphone with?pictures of iphones with little pictures of said gadgets which can be linked up with a virtual octopus...


yeah!


lettuce? 




________________________________
From: David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 3:22:33 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] future of musicianship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ug3f7jhztg&eurl=http://www.google.com/ 
reader/view/
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From td at pixar.com  Wed Jan  7 21:08:43 2009
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:08:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Muh spoon is too big!
In-Reply-To: <C58A2BAF.1B988%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
References: <C58A2BAF.1B988%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0901072102280.7980@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009, Robair, Gino wrote:
> MZ wrote:
> <<Gino, have you ever dressed as a banana at a public screening of this
> film?>>
> 
> Well, uh, yes. Yes, I have.

Was that supposed to be a banana?

-- 
Tom Duff.  We have to upgrade the software on the server.

From liz_abet at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  8 03:27:38 2009
From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (liz allbee)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 03:27:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
Message-ID: <95674.26184.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:46:17 -0800
From: George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] (no subject)
To: <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W3750C586FB40811181987BC1DF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


"Well, I know the Gaza situation has nothing to do with music, but neitherdoes Don Hertzfeldt or folks in banana suits."


Yeah, I know what you're saying George, but I don't think we can take the world out of music, which is precisely why I posted Fisk's article. I think music is inherently political (PARTICULARLY improvisation) and it's our choice not to see it as such, which is fine, that's a personal choice. But it is a very fortunate choice for us to be able to make, myself included obviously. 

As far as accomplishing nothing is concerned, I feel you there. It is frustrating to know we are unable to REALLY change policy or stop bloodshed that is perpetrated by our tax dollars and our complicity every single day. I don't go to protests anymore (though I wish I were in Buenos Aires with you! How's Argentina?) But I also realize that I am adamantly not going to be silent, polite, appropriate, or resigned to my apathy, which means at the very least I can talk about it and raise my concerns with the people around me, who I create music with and who I respect. It's so easy to forget that these atrocities are happening everyday (in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as Palestine) with what amounts to our consent. I forget all the time and I am complicit too, so I hope this post doesn't come across as a lecture to anyone here reading this, but more of an opening outwards, because to me this IS about music: communication and people. Why is it so easy for us
 not to have to be informed, or curious, or concerned?  Who wants our complicity and why?  Why shouldn't we talk about politics? Or war? Why not? Who decides what we can see or hear, what information we can be given? Do we allow our lives to be censored, do we censor ourselves ultimately, and if so what does that mean for our music? What does it mean for us as human beings? Can we find a sovereignty in our thoughts and hearts to really begin to connect in deep and meaningful ways? Exactly how free are we? What does our music say? 

I hope everyone on this list is having a peaceful and loving New Year and that this terrible slaughter will end soon. My absolutely warmest wishes for everyone and all the best in 2009....



I went over to the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires today, and joined a largedemonstration, screaming "asesinos" (assassins) and hurling garbage and paintbombs at the building along with everyone else until the riot police came. No, nothing was accomplished.But it was inspiring nonetheless.-George> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:12 -0800> From: liz_abet at yahoo.com > http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-> hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html


      

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 09:57:41 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:57:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <95674.26184.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <95674.26184.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901080957y36d252bdqfa7dde1d2cf1e561@mail.gmail.com>

i "ignore' it out of sadness, and feelings of futility and
hopelessness. it's enough for me to see one man pinned down and shot
at a Bart station, blocks away from where i live, to feel that kind of
hopelessness. the knowledge of it is like mud seeping into my brain
and heart. Did I want to walk down and protest with them? no, i wanted
to retreat to the bedroom wrapped in a blanket and watch junk on TV
and pretend it didn't happen. (I didn't, I finished painting the
hallway, defiantly ignoring the radio and thinking happy thoughts.
shameful,)
i know it's wrong, but when i see something like that, or the images
of the children at the school that was bombed in Gaza, i feel that
terribly, all the violence, and much more of it, will still happen no
matter what we do here, whether we protest peacefully or violently,
Remember how volatile everything was at the beginning of the Iraq war
here, all the protests, all that action --and the war is still going
on today, so discouraging, so disgusting.
 Action we take seems trivial, privileged, a shameful indulgence
brought by people that have the luxury of time because they're not
busy being attacked and killed. i feel like all we can hope to do is
somehow get people in office (legitimately, this time -- a big step
for us) that will ease those situations instead of exacerbate them.
I am trying to explain my own apathy -- it's apathy caused by a soul
tiring feeling, and then followed by a feeling of getting old. Liz,
it's not that  it's easy for me to be uninformed or not curious, it's
just that what news like this does to me is unpleasant so i do
instinctively what animals do when confronted with something
unpleasant - sheepishly avoid it.
Music is political because those who have the luxury of making it are
obviously not being bombed or shot at, at the time anyway. I still
think music has the potential to be an action bigger than a murder, or
a protest, at least in the way that it is a communicable organism,
whole populations can soak it in messages, literal or spiritual, and
pass it on.

k

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:27 AM, liz allbee <liz_abet at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:46:17 -0800
> From: George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] (no subject)
> To: <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID: <BLU136-W3750C586FB40811181987BC1DF0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> "Well, I know the Gaza situation has nothing to do with music, but neitherdoes Don Hertzfeldt or folks in banana suits."
>
>
> Yeah, I know what you're saying George, but I don't think we can take the world out of music, which is precisely why I posted Fisk's article. I think music is inherently political (PARTICULARLY improvisation) and it's our choice not to see it as such, which is fine, that's a personal choice. But it is a very fortunate choice for us to be able to make, myself included obviously.
>
> As far as accomplishing nothing is concerned, I feel you there. It is frustrating to know we are unable to REALLY change policy or stop bloodshed that is perpetrated by our tax dollars and our complicity every single day. I don't go to protests anymore (though I wish I were in Buenos Aires with you! How's Argentina?) But I also realize that I am adamantly not going to be silent, polite, appropriate, or resigned to my apathy, which means at the very least I can talk about it and raise my concerns with the people around me, who I create music with and who I respect. It's so easy to forget that these atrocities are happening everyday (in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as Palestine) with what amounts to our consent. I forget all the time and I am complicit too, so I hope this post doesn't come across as a lecture to anyone here reading this, but more of an opening outwards, because to me this IS about music: communication and people. Why is it so easy for us
>  not to have to be informed, or curious, or concerned?  Who wants our complicity and why?  Why shouldn't we talk about politics? Or war? Why not? Who decides what we can see or hear, what information we can be given? Do we allow our lives to be censored, do we censor ourselves ultimately, and if so what does that mean for our music? What does it mean for us as human beings? Can we find a sovereignty in our thoughts and hearts to really begin to connect in deep and meaningful ways? Exactly how free are we? What does our music say?
>
> I hope everyone on this list is having a peaceful and loving New Year and that this terrible slaughter will end soon. My absolutely warmest wishes for everyone and all the best in 2009....
>
>
>
> I went over to the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires today, and joined a largedemonstration, screaming "asesinos" (assassins) and hurling garbage and paintbombs at the building along with everyone else until the riot police came. No, nothing was accomplished.But it was inspiring nonetheless.-George> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:29:12 -0800> From: liz_abet at yahoo.com > http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-do-they-> hate-the-west-so-much-we-will-ask-1230046.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan  8 10:31:34 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:31:34 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0901080957y36d252bdqfa7dde1d2cf1e561@mail.gmail.com>
References: <95674.26184.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901080957y36d252bdqfa7dde1d2cf1e561@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <085C3873-0626-4402-90D3-C0844097E2DC@balancepointacoustics.com>

I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you are not  
fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where police have  
their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would say he  
made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal risks like  
rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney, shooting dope or  
any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out for the  
worst.

The Gaza situation is also long, complex and has more than one side.  
I am not saying I am pro-Israel but there are a lot of factors at  
work, one less obvious being how the surrounding countries manipulate  
the situation.
It is always bad when innocent people have to suffer and die, and  
what Israel as well as the US in the Middle East) is doing is  
terrible,  but that situation is anything but one sided.

In general as I get older politics get more blurred and confusing.  
While I feel more aligned with left wing views as an artist it gets  
very difficult.
Our music and art is more often than not going to get labeled elitist  
by the left and passed over in favor of folk music or worse made to  
force an "educational" or special interest onto the work and bad  
public sculpture like that awful thing in Berkeley on the overpass  
off 80.

Whereas the republican owner of the Gap has done more to bring  
serious world class contemporary art to the Bay Area.
I am not quite sure what to make of it just yet, but none of it is  
very simple.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net  Thu Jan  8 10:53:45 2009
From: tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net (ted brinkley)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:53:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <085C3873-0626-4402-90D3-C0844097E2DC@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

young/black/male/fighting/Bart

vs.

young/white/male/fighting/Bart

change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of changes pretty steeply.

enough to make it  effectively a police-state.

--G




--- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:

> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
> are not  
> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
> police have  
> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
> say he  
> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
> risks like  
> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
> shooting dope or  
> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
> for the  
> worst.
> 



From polly.moller at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 11:03:21 2009
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:03:21 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <085C3873-0626-4402-90D3-C0844097E2DC@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40901081103jc7dc6f5s934ca7d8d4f8fef7@mail.gmail.com>

This doesn't address any of the points anyone has brought up, but I thought
I'd share --
when I was coming home from SF and heard the announcement, "The Fruitvale
and 12th
Street BART stations are closed until further notice due to civil protest,"
I felt SO proud.
Then the situation escalated into the evening, after I'd already gotten
home, and I felt
SO sad and sick to my stomach.
P.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley <tedbrinkley at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>
> vs.
>
> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>
> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of changes
> pretty steeply.
>
> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>
> --G
>
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
------------------------------------------------------------

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan  8 11:35:03 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:35:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>

I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police  
forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police  
officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop   
is going to have their gun out.
Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher  
likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.  
While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot  
pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute  
people.

On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:

> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>
> vs.
>
> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>
> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of  
> changes pretty steeply.
>
> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>
> --G
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>> are not
>> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>> police have
>> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>> say he
>> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>> risks like
>> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>> shooting dope or
>> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>> for the
>> worst.
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From cliffcaruthers at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 12:58:14 2009
From: cliffcaruthers at gmail.com (cliff caruthers)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>

Easy to say white dude....
However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer intended to reach
for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic, reprehensible
mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.

-Cliff


On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:

> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
> is going to have their gun out.
> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
> people.
>
> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>
> > young/black/male/fighting/Bart
> >
> > vs.
> >
> > young/white/male/fighting/Bart
> >
> > change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
> > changes pretty steeply.
> >
> > enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
> >
> > --G
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
> >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> >> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
> >> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
> >> are not
> >> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
> >> police have
> >> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
> >> say he
> >> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
> >> risks like
> >> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
> >> shooting dope or
> >> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
> >> for the
> >> worst.
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> New solo project:
> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 13:19:43 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:19:43 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in inherently
racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was begging
not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known
visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
changed anything?

k

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
<cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
> Easy to say white dude....
> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer intended to reach
> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic, reprehensible
> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
>
> -Cliff
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
>> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
>> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
>> is going to have their gun out.
>> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
>> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
>> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
>> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
>> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
>> people.
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>>
>> > young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>> >
>> > vs.
>> >
>> > young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>> >
>> > change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
>> > changes pretty steeply.
>> >
>> > enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>> >
>> > --G
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>> >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> >> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>> >> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>> >> are not
>> >> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>> >> police have
>> >> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>> >> say he
>> >> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>> >> risks like
>> >> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>> >> shooting dope or
>> >> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>> >> for the
>> >> worst.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>> Damon Smith
>>
>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>> New solo project:
>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan  8 13:33:52 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:33:52 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <C58BB140.28F3D%21grand@21grand.org>

As far as the BART cop thing goes, I think the guy just fucked up. Was he
reaching for the taser? I don't think so. The newspaper suggested that
possibility, but they also suggested that it wasn't highly likely. I think
he just panicked. Of course the results of the fuck up is that someone is
dead. Maybe BART police shouldn't have guns. Of course Oakland PD has fucked
up too and killed people that perhaps weren't endangering the lives of the
cops in question. I think that was the real source of the frustration that
led to the protests. The BART cop was just the final straw.

But people fuck up plain and simple. Of course, we wish they didn't, and the
consequences weren't as irrevocable, and that there'd be consequences to
their actions. It's different when a government fucks up, because they're
not supposed to do so, their fuck ups are on a much larger scale, and no
one's really there to discipline them.

Meanwhile I sat for several minutes on my way home from work waiting for
cops to clear an intersection and the fire department to put out a fire in a
dumpster someone dragged out in the middle of the street. At least 10 people
ran out into the intersection to videotape and take pictures of the flaming
dumpster. I don't know what setting fire to dumpsters has to do with police
brutality, save for the tactical possibility that those who did it hoped
that the cops would go aggro on them and they'd have more evidence of police
brutality. I just kept thinking about how much money the whole thing cost:
hundreds of cops in riot gear, multiple police helicopters.

sl 

on 1/8/09 11:35 AM, Damon Smith at damon at balancepointacoustics.com wrote:

> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
> is going to have their gun out.
> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
> people.
> 
> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
> 
>> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>> 
>> vs.
>> 
>> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>> 
>> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
>> changes pretty steeply.
>> 
>> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>> 
>> --G
>> 
>> 



From phil at philipgelb.com  Thu Jan  8 14:03:54 2009
From: phil at philipgelb.com (Philip Gelb)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:03:54 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>

i cant accept this was an accident

a gun does not feel like a tazer.

even tazing a guy who is on the ground with another dumb cop  
practically sitting on his head is intolerable.

this country is getting more and more fu**ed up

phil

Philip Gelb
vegetarian chef
shakuhachi player, teacher
phil at philipgelb.com
http://philipgelb.com
http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood
http://myspace.com/philipgelb
http://www.yelp.com/biz/in-the-mood-for-food-oakland

On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:19 PM, kristin miltner wrote:

> Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
> mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in inherently
> racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
> tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was begging
> not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
> mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
> that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known
> visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
> changed anything?
>
> k
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
> <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Easy to say white dude....
>> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer  
>> intended to reach
>> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic,  
>> reprehensible
>> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
>>
>> -Cliff
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
>> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
>>> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
>>> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
>>> is going to have their gun out.
>>> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
>>> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
>>> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
>>> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
>>> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
>>> people.
>>>
>>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>>>
>>>> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>
>>>> vs.
>>>>
>>>> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>
>>>> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
>>>> changes pretty steeply.
>>>>
>>>> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>>>>
>>>> --G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>>>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"  
>>>>> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>>>>> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>>>>> are not
>>>>> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>>>>> police have
>>>>> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>>>>> say he
>>>>> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>>>>> risks like
>>>>> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>>>>> shooting dope or
>>>>> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>>>>> for the
>>>>> worst.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>> Damon Smith
>>>
>>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>>> New solo project:
>>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.kristinmiltner.net
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan  8 15:21:43 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:21:43 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9DB57A3-98B8-4555-8C25-22CC78B7BFA5@balancepointacoustics.com>

On Jan 8, 2009, at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers wrote:

> Easy to say white dude....

Well, I have to say I was the only "white dude" at Prince Lasha's  
service last month and one of the few who bothers to maintain working  
relationships with African American musicians!

Obviously, it was a big fuck up with the Bart cop. All I am saying is  
it is fairly easy to avoid ending up in situations where the police  
have their weapons out.
While it might be slightly easier for me as a white make, I don't  
think any our African American colleagues are going to be in that  
situation anytime soon, either.

  Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 15:43:37 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:43:37 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
Message-ID: <49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>

If you watch the video, it seems pretty obvious that it was an accident. 
That just moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to 
'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they 
both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country 
frankly scares me more because it's more widespread.

alicia

Philip Gelb wrote:
> i cant accept this was an accident
>
> a gun does not feel like a tazer.
>
> even tazing a guy who is on the ground with another dumb cop  
> practically sitting on his head is intolerable.
>
> this country is getting more and more fu**ed up
>
> phil
>
> Philip Gelb
> vegetarian chef
> shakuhachi player, teacher
> phil at philipgelb.com
> http://philipgelb.com
> http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood
> http://myspace.com/philipgelb
> http://www.yelp.com/biz/in-the-mood-for-food-oakland
>
> On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:19 PM, kristin miltner wrote:
>
>   
>> Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
>> mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in inherently
>> racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
>> tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was begging
>> not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
>> mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
>> that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known
>> visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
>> changed anything?
>>
>> k
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
>> <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Easy to say white dude....
>>> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer  
>>> intended to reach
>>> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic,  
>>> reprehensible
>>> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
>>>
>>> -Cliff
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
>>> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
>>>> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
>>>> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
>>>> is going to have their gun out.
>>>> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
>>>> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
>>>> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
>>>> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
>>>> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
>>>> people.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>>
>>>>> vs.
>>>>>
>>>>> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>>
>>>>> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
>>>>> changes pretty steeply.
>>>>>
>>>>> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>>>>>
>>>>> --G
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>>>>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"  
>>>>>> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>>>>>> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>>>>>> are not
>>>>>> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>>>>>> police have
>>>>>> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>>>>>> say he
>>>>>> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>>>>>> risks like
>>>>>> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>>>>>> shooting dope or
>>>>>> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>>>>>> for the
>>>>>> worst.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>           
>>>> Damon Smith
>>>>
>>>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>>>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>>>> New solo project:
>>>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> -- 
>> kristin miltner
>> audio professional
>> www.kristinmiltner.net
>> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
>> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan  8 15:49:18 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:49:18 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3030D7E1-CAD4-4248-BE8E-A16A623EB0D7@balancepointacoustics.com>

I can agree with that! My point is only to look at all sides..
On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:

> If you watch the video, it seems pretty obvious that it was an  
> accident.
> That just moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
> 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
> both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
> frankly scares me more because it's more widespread.
>
> alicia
>
> Philip Gelb wrote:
>> i cant accept this was an accident
>>
>> a gun does not feel like a tazer.
>>
>> even tazing a guy who is on the ground with another dumb cop
>> practically sitting on his head is intolerable.
>>
>> this country is getting more and more fu**ed up
>>
>> phil
>>
>> Philip Gelb
>> vegetarian chef
>> shakuhachi player, teacher
>> phil at philipgelb.com
>> http://philipgelb.com
>> http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood
>> http://myspace.com/philipgelb
>> http://www.yelp.com/biz/in-the-mood-for-food-oakland
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:19 PM, kristin miltner wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
>>> mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in  
>>> inherently
>>> racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
>>> tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was  
>>> begging
>>> not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
>>> mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
>>> that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known
>>> visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
>>> changed anything?
>>>
>>> k
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
>>> <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Easy to say white dude....
>>>> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer
>>>> intended to reach
>>>> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic,
>>>> reprehensible
>>>> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
>>>>
>>>> -Cliff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
>>>> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
>>>>> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
>>>>> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland  
>>>>> stop
>>>>> is going to have their gun out.
>>>>> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
>>>>> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being  
>>>>> armed.
>>>>> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers  
>>>>> cannot
>>>>> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
>>>>> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking  
>>>>> execute
>>>>> people.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> vs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you  
>>>>>> speak of
>>>>>> changes pretty steeply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --G
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>>>>>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
>>>>>>> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>>>>>>> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>>>>>>> are not
>>>>>>> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>>>>>>> police have
>>>>>>> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>>>>>>> say he
>>>>>>> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>>>>>>> risks like
>>>>>>> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>>>>>>> shooting dope or
>>>>>>> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>> worst.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>>
>>>>> Damon Smith
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>>>>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>>>>> New solo project:
>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> kristin miltner
>>> audio professional
>>> www.kristinmiltner.net
>>> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
>>> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan  8 15:49:31 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:49:31 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C58BD10B.28F4A%21grand@21grand.org>

I think negligent moronitude is beyond national boundaries. The problem is
how to prevent it from doing damage.

sl

on 1/8/09 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer at aliciabyer at gmail.com wrote:

> If you watch the video, it seems pretty obvious that it was an accident.
> That just moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
> 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
> both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
> frankly scares me more because it's more widespread.
> 
> alicia
> 



From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 16:14:44 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:14:44 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <C58BD10B.28F4A%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C58BD10B.28F4A%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <496696F4.6020902@gmail.com>

Well that is why cops are supposed to be TRAINED. as in, when to use 
their guns, and when not to, and how to use them.

dealing with weird, uncooperative people in fucked up situations WITHOUT 
accidentally killing them is the police's JOB. I know that accidents 
happen, but from what I saw, they were fumbling around like they had no 
idea what they were doing.. and that's the fault of the entire bart 
police for not taking the job seriously enough.

and the guy is not being extremely violent or anything. maybe he was 
resisting arrest a little bit, but they should have been able to handle it.

I do agree with you too damon.. I think that it's soooo easy to just 
jump on the easiest, safest left-wing bandwagon that you think is the 
'moral high ground' and cry 'nazi!' any time a cop screws up, when 
really that is just a palliative for all us happy self-righteous 
do-gooder types and our little world-views.  it's much harder to look at 
a complex situation honestly. blind ideology is just as blind, whoever's 
it is.

as far as protests, going out and standing on the street corner banging 
pots and pans doesn't change anything because it is essentially theater, 
and people are accustomed to it now. it makes the protesters feel good, 
but that's it. nobody wants to do the dirty work of political organizing 
or running for office, or whatever meager advances it is that we may 
make, working our asses off for no recognition. we would all rather 
stand on the street corner feeling like heroes.

alicia


Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:
> I think negligent moronitude is beyond national boundaries. The problem is
> how to prevent it from doing damage.
>
> sl
>
> on 1/8/09 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer at aliciabyer at gmail.com wrote:
>
>   
>> If you watch the video, it seems pretty obvious that it was an accident.
>> That just moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
>> 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
>> both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
>> frankly scares me more because it's more widespread.
>>
>> alicia
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan  8 16:24:08 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:24:08 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
Message-ID: <20090108.162847.4076.298.weaselw@juno.com>

i wasn't there so i don't know what happened. 

people should consider this before they go out and trash cars and store
windows downtown. 

ww
 
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:19:43 -0800 "kristin miltner"
<miltnerunit at gmail.com> writes:
> Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
> mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in 
> inherently
> racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
> tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was 
> begging
> not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
> mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
> that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have 
> known
> visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
> changed anything?
> 
> k
> 
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
> <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Easy to say white dude....
> > However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer 
> intended to reach
> > for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic, 
> reprehensible
> > mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
> >
> > -Cliff
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
> > damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
> >> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
> >> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland 
> stop
> >> is going to have their gun out.
> >> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the 
> higher
> >> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being 
> armed.
> >> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers 
> cannot
> >> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and 
> live.
> >> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking 
> execute
> >> people.
> >>
> >> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
> >>
> >> > young/black/male/fighting/Bart
> >> >
> >> > vs.
> >> >
> >> > young/white/male/fighting/Bart
> >> >
> >> > change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak 
> of
> >> > changes pretty steeply.
> >> >
> >> > enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
> >> >
> >> > --G
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith 
> <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
> >> >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" 
> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> >> >> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
> >> >> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
> >> >> are not
> >> >> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
> >> >> police have
> >> >> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
> >> >> say he
> >> >> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
> >> >> risks like
> >> >> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
> >> >> shooting dope or
> >> >> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
> >> >> for the
> >> >> worst.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> >> Damon Smith
> >>
> >> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> >> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> >> New solo project:
> >> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.kristinmiltner.net
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
There's only one Beantown. Click here for great vacation deals to Boston!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw3H9NYThjOJ6M0soRRCOJ3w2rzNFNUUGB05vkGH0oCCMPmm6/

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan  8 16:23:26 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:23:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
Message-ID: <20090108.162847.4076.297.weaselw@juno.com>

easy for you to say "easy to say white dude", white dude!

ww
 
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:58:14 -0800 "cliff caruthers"
<cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> writes:
> Easy to say white dude....
> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer intended 
> to reach
> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic, 
> reprehensible
> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
> 
> -Cliff
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
> 
> > I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
> > forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
> > officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland 
> stop
> > is going to have their gun out.
> > Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
> > likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being 
> armed.
> > While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers 
> cannot
> > pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and 
> live.
> > I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking 
> execute
> > people.
> >
> > On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
> >
> > > young/black/male/fighting/Bart
> > >
> > > vs.
> > >
> > > young/white/male/fighting/Bart
> > >
> > > change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak 
> of
> > > changes pretty steeply.
> > >
> > > enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
> > >
> > > --G
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith 
> <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
> > >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
> > >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" 
> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> > >> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
> > >> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
> > >> are not
> > >> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
> > >> police have
> > >> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
> > >> say he
> > >> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
> > >> risks like
> > >> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
> > >> shooting dope or
> > >> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
> > >> for the
> > >> worst.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> > Damon Smith
> >
> > http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> > http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> > New solo project:
> > http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Internet Advertising that Works. Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2Spf8zbot0ZDDqk8nRTLVPWn3xIZzXTSL4VmYVygl2WaDWe/

From slusser at pixar.com  Thu Jan  8 16:28:22 2009
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:28:22 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>

On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:
> ...moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
> 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
> both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
> frankly scares me more because it's more widespread

I hesitate responding, since I don't believe there are any real
answers.  Gaza and Oakland distress and depress me. I'm
scared of cop mentality.  I'm scared of nationalist mentality.
I think cop mentality includes both of Alicia's descriptions.
My attitude towards police was formed when they were
beating the shit out of protesters and harassing longhairs in
the sixties.  I couldn't get over the shootings of students at
Kent State (by National Guard), which happened 14 miles from
my house when I was a senior in high school.  You can't believe
that "we're all the same" when these things happen.  Most cops
are goons the way George W. Bush is a goon for the oil cartel;
utterly moronic, racist, and deadly dangerous.  Yes, I am
prejudiced.

What we do doesn't even register as music with these people.
It's bad enough that art's been devalued - there's actual
hostility toward it.  Watch out for tazers at 21Grand.



From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 16:41:15 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:41:15 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
	<4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <49669D2B.5000803@gmail.com>

well the cops are just the final violent arm of the 'justice' system & 
legislative system.. easy to blame the individual cops when it's the 
whole justice system that creates them. it's almost like blaming the 
messenger for a violent message. yeah, there are lots of fucked-up cops 
but they are kind of just dumb fucks that are following orders, and 
mistakes often happen on the 'front lines' of cultural warfare.. which 
is what the kent state thing was, and that's what racism is.. I'm not 
excusing it, just saying that it goes deeper than cops. I mean I was 
wrongfully arrested once and had a shotgun and 6-7 handguns waved in my 
face, they had 10 cop cars, I thought i was going to die. wrongfully 
handcuffed, felt up by some cop dude, shoved in a cop car, questioned 
for an hour.. they thought I shot somebody. when i was 15. they didn't 
apologize. I hated cops for a while. but shit happens.

alicia

David Slusser wrote:
> On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:
>   
>> ...moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
>> 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
>> both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
>> frankly scares me more because it's more widespread
>>     
>
> I hesitate responding, since I don't believe there are any real
> answers.  Gaza and Oakland distress and depress me. I'm
> scared of cop mentality.  I'm scared of nationalist mentality.
> I think cop mentality includes both of Alicia's descriptions.
> My attitude towards police was formed when they were
> beating the shit out of protesters and harassing longhairs in
> the sixties.  I couldn't get over the shootings of students at
> Kent State (by National Guard), which happened 14 miles from
> my house when I was a senior in high school.  You can't believe
> that "we're all the same" when these things happen.  Most cops
> are goons the way George W. Bush is a goon for the oil cartel;
> utterly moronic, racist, and deadly dangerous.  Yes, I am
> prejudiced.
>
> What we do doesn't even register as music with these people.
> It's bad enough that art's been devalued - there's actual
> hostility toward it.  Watch out for tazers at 21Grand.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From ps_patrice at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  8 17:01:10 2009
From: ps_patrice at hotmail.com (Patrice Scanlon)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:01:10 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-W9C376774BF62C32FC3E1EEBDD0@phx.gbl>


 > If they would have known visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have changed anything? Maybe Grant was actually reaching for his wallet to show a picture of his baby girl to the officer when they had him pinned to the ground?What I want to know is what happened before the train was even forced to stop at the Fruitvale station. What kind of fight are they talking about? Who was involved? Who made the call? How did the bart cops manage to pull only the members included in the fight off the train? ps> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 13:19:43 -0800> From: miltnerunit at gmail.com> To: sonics at cliffcaruthers.com; newmusic at music.mills.edu> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics> > Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of> mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in inherently> racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the> tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was begging> not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to> mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing> that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known> visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have> changed anything?> > k> > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers> <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:> > Easy to say white dude....> > However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer intended to reach> > for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic, reprehensible> > mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.> >> > -Cliff> >> >> > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <> > damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:> >> >> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police> >> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police> >> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop> >> is going to have their gun out.> >> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher> >> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.> >> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot> >> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.> >> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute> >> people.> >>> >> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:> >>> >> > young/black/male/fighting/Bart> >> >> >> > vs.> >> >> >> > young/white/male/fighting/Bart> >> >> >> > change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of> >> > changes pretty steeply.> >> >> >> > enough to make it  effectively a police-state.> >> >> >> > --G> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>> >> > wrote:> >> >> >> >> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>> >> >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics> >> >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>> >> >> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM> >> >> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you> >> >> are not> >> >> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where> >> >> police have> >> >> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would> >> >> say he> >> >> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal> >> >> risks like> >> >> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,> >> >> shooting dope or> >> >> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out> >> >> for the> >> >> worst.> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> >> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> >> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu> >> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic> >>> >> Damon Smith> >>> >> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com> >> http://myspace.com/smithdamon> >> New solo project:> >> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic> >>> > _______________________________________________> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic> >> > > > -- > kristin miltner> audio professional> www.kristinmiltner.net> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html> _______________________________________________> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> NewMusic at music.mills.edu> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

From ps_patrice at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  8 17:04:05 2009
From: ps_patrice at hotmail.com (Patrice Scanlon)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:04:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] FW:  music and politics
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-W9C376774BF62C32FC3E1EEBDD0@phx.gbl>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com> 
	<BAY105-W9C376774BF62C32FC3E1EEBDD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY105-W12D32F45AE0C7EE4220A3EBDD0@phx.gbl>


Sorry that last one was messy
> > If they would have known visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have changed anything? 
Maybe Grant was actually reaching for his wallet to show a picture of his baby girl to the officer when they had him pinned to the ground?What I want to know is what happened before the train was even forced to stop at the Fruitvale station. What kind of fight are they talking about? Who was involved? Who made the call? How did the bart cops manage to pull only the members included in the fight off the train? ps


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  8 17:37:25 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:37:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
	<4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <513862.27357.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

nuff said...

lettuce




________________________________
From: David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 4:28:22 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics

On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:
> ...moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
> 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
> both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
> frankly scares me more because it's more widespread

I hesitate responding, since I don't believe there are any real
answers.? Gaza and Oakland distress and depress me. I'm
scared of cop mentality.? I'm scared of nationalist mentality.
I think cop mentality includes both of Alicia's descriptions.
My attitude towards police was formed when they were
beating the shit out of protesters and harassing longhairs in
the sixties.? I couldn't get over the shootings of students at
Kent State (by National Guard), which happened 14 miles from
my house when I was a senior in high school.? You can't believe
that "we're all the same" when these things happen.? Most cops
are goons the way George W. Bush is a goon for the oil cartel;
utterly moronic, racist, and deadly dangerous.? Yes, I am
prejudiced.

What we do doesn't even register as music with these people.
It's bad enough that art's been devalued - there's actual
hostility toward it.? Watch out for tazers at 21Grand.


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan  8 17:42:05 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:42:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <C58BEB6D.28F60%21grand@21grand.org>

On the other hand, I've seen people do fucked up destructive shit at music
shows. Are we all equally capable of goon-like behavior? No, but I don't
think it's limited to cops, soldiers, and the Bush Administration. Whoever
decided to set the dumpster on fire that I had to sit in traffic and wait
for 10 people to take pictures and video of and the fire department to put
out was definitely indulging in goon-like behavior.

I know I've also lost my temper and gone off on people doing destructive
things or who appeared to be about to, whether intentionally or because they
weren't paying attention. I think being in a position where it's your job to
police people is very challenging and does affect the way you perceive
people and how you respond to them. I'm glad I don't have access to weapons
or that I have no fighting skills, such that the resulting conflict is
merely a screaming match.

Alicia's right, in that these cops presumably have been trained well to deal
with these situations. However, people fuck up. Teachers have sex with
students when they've been trained not to do so; accountants embezzle money;
cops shoot innocent people.

Perhaps the police force attracts goons because they're less fazed by the
risk of fucking up and shooting an innocent person. For me, this whole mess
just boils down to another strong argument for gun control.

sl

on 1/8/09 4:28 PM, David Slusser at slusser at pixar.com wrote:


> My attitude towards police was formed when they were
> beating the shit out of protesters and harassing longhairs in
> the sixties.  I couldn't get over the shootings of students at
> Kent State (by National Guard), which happened 14 miles from
> my house when I was a senior in high school.  You can't believe
> that "we're all the same" when these things happen.  Most cops
> are goons the way George W. Bush is a goon for the oil cartel;
> utterly moronic, racist, and deadly dangerous.  Yes, I am
> prejudiced.
> 
> What we do doesn't even register as music with these people.
> It's bad enough that art's been devalued - there's actual
> hostility toward it.  Watch out for tazers at 21Grand.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



From jzitt at metatronpress.com  Thu Jan  8 17:55:43 2009
From: jzitt at metatronpress.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:55:43 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
	<4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <cf60725f0901081755i419b0c45j6b2200bce39ceed9@mail.gmail.com>

I have to say that, much as I would like to distrust and condemn the police
politically as a relatively faceless mass, each one that I have deal with
over the decades (including those who arrested me back in the proverbial
day) have individually been well-meaning, careful, and present. I have seen
police actions that have gone poorly, but my personal experience keeps me
from issuing such mass condemnations.

The same goes for dealings with Israelis and Palestinians. Actually knowing
people makes generalizing about them a lot harder.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:28 PM, David Slusser <slusser at pixar.com> wrote:

> On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:
> > ...moves it from the realm of 'vicious racist nazi cop' to
> > 'lethally ignorant utter moron'. I don't know which is worse, if they
> > both end in death. The level of negligent moronitude in the country
> > frankly scares me more because it's more widespread
>
> I hesitate responding, since I don't believe there are any real
> answers.  Gaza and Oakland distress and depress me. I'm
> scared of cop mentality.  I'm scared of nationalist mentality.
> I think cop mentality includes both of Alicia's descriptions.
> My attitude towards police was formed when they were
> beating the shit out of protesters and harassing longhairs in
> the sixties.  I couldn't get over the shootings of students at
> Kent State (by National Guard), which happened 14 miles from
> my house when I was a senior in high school.  You can't believe
> that "we're all the same" when these things happen.  Most cops
> are goons the way George W. Bush is a goon for the oil cartel;
> utterly moronic, racist, and deadly dangerous.  Yes, I am
> prejudiced.
>
> What we do doesn't even register as music with these people.
> It's bad enough that art's been devalued - there's actual
> hostility toward it.  Watch out for tazers at 21Grand.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  8 18:47:43 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:47:43 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <cf60725f0901081755i419b0c45j6b2200bce39ceed9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
	<4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com> 
	<cf60725f0901081755i419b0c45j6b2200bce39ceed9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W34DAED3BDE66E1F9FAA70CC1DD0@phx.gbl>


> The same goes for dealings with Israelis and Palestinians. Actually knowing> people makes generalizing about them a lot harder.I'm not sure I understand this. If I know 5 Israelis, and they're all wonderful, does that change the facts on the ground?  Should I say, "gee, my friend in Tel Aviv is really a sweet person, so let's give Israel a break"? Did anyone on this list actually say "Israelis suck" or some such sentiment? The facts, for anyone who has studied the situation beyond Fox or CNN or Time magazine, are that this has been, from the beginning, a fair fight in the same way that Johannes Mesherle vs. Oscar Grant was a fair fight. Period. So the neighboring Arab countries have fucked the Palestinians also? So what? That makesIsrael's actions ok? Sorry, logic disconnect - like so many of the Israeli apologists' pseudo-arguments. And get ready for more: Mr Change-We-Need isMr More-of-the-Same-Old-Shit as far as Israel is concerned.-George
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 20:53:03 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:53:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] distortion pedal recommendations
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901082053l368fbcf6qc13b8346269b095b@mail.gmail.com>

ok noisers, looking for suggestions.

I need a good distortion pedal for my drum machine setup. I'm looking
for the ability to make pure tones sound good and chunky, especially
in ways that won't shorten my sustain. Other considerations:
--Around or less than $100
--Small footprint on table
--lots of different sound options (not just an on/off switch)
--AC adapter is a plus.
Is this a good one?
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-ToneCore-Uber-Metal-Distortion-Pedal?sku=150389

I'm also keeping an eye out for wah pedals that are good for
electronics. So far this one catches my eye:
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Morley-Steve-Vai-Bad-Horsie-2-Contour-Wah-Pedal?sku=150751
'cuz, you know - I want to play drum machine like Steve Vai does.

Matt

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan  8 22:28:03 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:28:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W34DAED3BDE66E1F9FAA70CC1DD0@phx.gbl>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<49668FA9.8070100@gmail.com>
	<4D4A24A8-BD4E-465F-98B7-C710DBD60C67@pixar.com>
	<cf60725f0901081755i419b0c45j6b2200bce39ceed9@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W34DAED3BDE66E1F9FAA70CC1DD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D7D9817B-9DB1-45E9-8932-2E57D8CC7E4D@balancepointacoustics.com>

I do have good friends in Tel Aviv at this point, but they are not  
any happier with their governments actions than I am with ours.

On Jan 8, 2009, at 6:47 PM, George Cremaschi wrote:

>
>> The same goes for dealings with Israelis and Palestinians.  
>> Actually knowing> people makes generalizing about them a lot  
>> harder.I'm not sure I understand this. If I know 5 Israelis, and  
>> they're all wonderful, does that change the facts on the ground?   
>> Should I say, "gee, my friend in Tel Aviv is really a sweet  
>> person, so let's give Israel a break"? Did anyone on this list  
>> actually say "Israelis suck" or some such sentiment? The facts,  
>> for anyone who has studied the situation beyond Fox or CNN or Time  
>> magazine, are that this has been, from the beginning, a fair fight  
>> in the same way that Johannes Mesherle vs. Oscar Grant was a fair  
>> fight. Period. So the neighboring Arab countries have fucked the  
>> Palestinians also? So what? That makesIsrael's actions ok? Sorry,  
>> logic disconnect - like so many of the Israeli apologists' pseudo- 
>> arguments. And get ready for more: Mr Change-We-Need isMr More-of- 
>> the-Same-Old-Shit as far as Israel is concerned.-George
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
> http://windowslive.com/explore? 
> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Fri Jan  9 06:27:00 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:27:00 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] distortion pedal recommendations
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901082053l368fbcf6qc13b8346269b095b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0901082053l368fbcf6qc13b8346269b095b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901090627j51b0c1besd1dc66b1e4837bbc@mail.gmail.com>

For electronics, I've always been kinda preferential to he Ibanez
Smash Box of all things - that was the cheapo "so you wanna sound like
n? metal" pedal they put out back when people listened to such things.
It's an absolute piece of shit, but can surprisingly offer a decent
menagerie of sounds. Not to mention that its one of those "pedals of
lost dreams..." in other words, if you look hard enough you can
probably find one for around ten bux as some kid tries to hock his
entire starter guitar rig fr cheap in order to buy an xbox.

ala balls to the wall and but still cheap and mostly commercial, chain
a danelectro black licorice distortion pedal to an mxr blue box,
you'll have all the sludge you'd ever dream of, and sill a decent eq
section to kind of mold it. if you're lucky enough to find a
danelectro black paisley pedal (same as the licorice, but with an
expanded eq), even better.

Ala wah pedals, i've always been partial to the snarling dogs mold
spore wah - wah with switchable ring mod. yum.

hope this helps, yon drum machine shredmaster.



On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:
> ok noisers, looking for suggestions.
>
> I need a good distortion pedal for my drum machine setup. I'm looking
> for the ability to make pure tones sound good and chunky, especially
> in ways that won't shorten my sustain. Other considerations:
> --Around or less than $100
> --Small footprint on table
> --lots of different sound options (not just an on/off switch)
> --AC adapter is a plus.
> Is this a good one?
> http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-ToneCore-Uber-Metal-Distortion-Pedal?sku=150389
>
> I'm also keeping an eye out for wah pedals that are good for
> electronics. So far this one catches my eye:
> http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Morley-Steve-Vai-Bad-Horsie-2-Contour-Wah-Pedal?sku=150751
> 'cuz, you know - I want to play drum machine like Steve Vai does.
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Fri Jan  9 09:45:16 2009
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:45:16 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] Towels (was politics and music)
Message-ID: <C58CCD2C.1BBB2%Gino.Robair@penton.com>


"Well I used to open up the closet door, and struggle in the dark..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E
 


From ps_patrice at hotmail.com  Fri Jan  9 10:07:42 2009
From: ps_patrice at hotmail.com (Patrice Scanlon)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 10:07:42 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Towels (was politics and music)
In-Reply-To: <C58CCD2C.1BBB2%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
References: <C58CCD2C.1BBB2%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-W4659300789EA5EDF3469C2EBDD0@phx.gbl>


The towels will light the way... > From: Gino.Robair at penton.com> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:45:16 -0600> Subject: [NewMusic] Towels (was politics and music)> > > "Well I used to open up the closet door, and struggle in the dark..."> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E>  > > _______________________________________________> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> NewMusic at music.mills.edu> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Fri Jan  9 11:45:41 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:45:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Towels (was politics and music)
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-W4659300789EA5EDF3469C2EBDD0@phx.gbl>
References: <C58CCD2C.1BBB2%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
	<BAY105-W4659300789EA5EDF3469C2EBDD0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901091145y4a962f06t72e975e341cefe7a@mail.gmail.com>

Cliff thinks this computer in the ad is actually a mac...

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Patrice Scanlon <ps_patrice at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The towels will light the way... > From: Gino.Robair at penton.com> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:45:16 -0600> Subject: [NewMusic] Towels (was politics and music)> > > "Well I used to open up the closet door, and struggle in the dark..."> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v3oGFogwcx-E>  > > _______________________________________________> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> NewMusic at music.mills.edu> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocidTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From djll at sonic.net  Fri Jan  9 21:37:48 2009
From: djll at sonic.net (Tom Dill)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:37:48 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] NewMusic Digest, Vol 33, Issue 8
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1231563604.24117.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1231563604.24117.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <20C1E511-7997-44BD-9A5E-FE6309D66F81@sonic.net>

The girl's voice is SO overly pitch-corrected. Just a little bit more  
and you'd have something really interesting.

Oh, wait, that's an entire industry.... and not so interesting...

td

On Jan 9, 2009, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:

> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:45:16 -0600
> From: "Robair, Gino" <Gino.Robair at penton.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] Towels (was politics and music)
> To: New Music <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID: <C58CCD2C.1BBB2%Gino.Robair at penton.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> "Well I used to open up the closet door, and struggle in the dark..."
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oGFogwcx-E


Tom Djll
227 Otis St.
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(831) 429-8072  home
(831) 423-3050 office
(831) 320-1489 cell
djll at sonic.net
tom at mythmaker.com
www.mythmaker.com

Music, calendar, & bio:
http://www.bayimproviser.com/TomDjll

More music w/sound snippets:
http://www.myspace.com/analoguelipsynthesizer

Photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/djll/





From michaelz at zoka.com  Sat Jan 10 09:16:59 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:16:59 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Yoshi's SF gets bailout, moves away from jazz
Message-ID: <p06240835c58e88785449@[192.168.0.2]>

>Yoshi's S.F. changes its repertoire
>
>Jesse Hamlin, Chronicle Staff Writer
>Saturday, January 10, 2009


>This article appeared on page E - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle

<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/10/DDK9155U1B.DTL>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Sat Jan 10 10:03:33 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:03:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Yoshi's SF gets bailout, moves away from jazz
In-Reply-To: <p06240835c58e88785449@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <651985.80289.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

is it any surprise? any of it? let's start with the statement that yoshi's sf is "cannibalizing" yoshi's oakland. everyone i talked to when they slated to open the sf venue predicted that...and i don't run with a particularly smart crowd....

;)

and they're wondering why they can't keep that enormous vegas-styled gallery open by only programming "jazz". good lord. the only jazz club that ever really worked in the bay area was keystone korner. when i say "worked", i mean they programmed great music, the place was usually packed, and when todd barkin wasn't putting the profits up his nose, the place ran smoothly. it was a small venue, easy to fill 6 nights a week whether it was braxton solo or dexter gordon's quartet. jam sessions on monday nights gave a place where youngsters like me could play with mark little and eddie moore...those days are over, i don't why i bring them up, other than to say that these meglamaniacs are insane to think they can fill a big (ostentatious) room like yoshi's sf every night of the week.




--- On Sat, 1/10/09, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] Yoshi's SF gets bailout, moves away from jazz
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 9:16 AM
> >Yoshi's S.F. changes its repertoire
> >
> >Jesse Hamlin, Chronicle Staff Writer
> >Saturday, January 10, 2009
> 
> 
> >This article appeared on page E - 1 of the San
> Francisco Chronicle
> 
> <http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/10/DDK9155U1B.DTL>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From liz_abet at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 10 13:24:43 2009
From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (liz allbee)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:24:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
Message-ID: <262692.65430.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ok. This is a late post as I get these as digests but I just have to say to be perfectly clear, because I think it?s a VERY important distinction and often gets conflated, (and then I?ll also let this drop so we can talk about all sorts of other things) that it isn?t about whether there are good people on all sides. Yes, I?ve met wonderful Israelis and wonderful Palestinians too, and I also know hundreds of really wonderful Americans.  My initial point was about OUR nations involvement and whether, and in what ways, we are encouraged not to be informed in this country on many issues. (And why we don?t particularly have to be.) 
I think it?s dangerous.

As far as cops are concerned, what does it matter whether we?ve known nice cops before or not? I?m completely confused by this point. Nobody is saying all cops are all evil human beings or all good ones for that matter. What was the cop doing with a gun in his hand, safety off, finger on the trigger, pointing it at the back of an unarmed and handcuffed man? What exactly does an ?accident? mean in this situation? 

I'm perfectly fine that what I do doesn't register as music to most people. I am sad about 21Grand's problems and how hard it is to maintain spaces for the experimental arts.


>I have to say that, much as I would like to distrust and condemn the police
politically as a relatively faceless mass, each one that I have deal with
over the decades (including those who arrested me back in the proverbial
day) have individually been well-meaning, careful, and present. I have seen
police actions that have gone poorly, but my personal experience keeps me
from issuing such mass condemnations.

The same goes for dealings with Israelis and Palestinians. Actually knowing
people makes generalizing about them a lot harder.


      

From liz_abet at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 10 14:35:38 2009
From: liz_abet at yahoo.com (liz allbee)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:35:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] (no subject)
Message-ID: <669310.78159.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm posting this again because the last post was in corrupted? I can't see this list besides digest, but apparently it was. Hopefully this is better: 



Ok. This is a late post as I get these as digests but I just have to say to be perfectly clear, because I think it?s a VERY important distinction and often gets conflated, (and then I?ll also let this drop so we can talk about all sorts of other things) that it isn?t about whether there are good people on all sides. Yes, I?ve met wonderful Israelis and wonderful Palestinians too, and I also know hundreds of really wonderful Americans.  My initial point was about OUR nations involvement and whether, and in what ways, we are encouraged not to be informed in this country on many issues. (And why we don?t particularly have to be.) 
I think it?s dangerous.

As far as cops are concerned, what does it matter whether we?ve known nice cops before or not? I?m completely confused by this point. Nobody is saying all cops are all evil human beings or all good ones for that matter. What was the cop doing with a gun in his hand, safety off, finger on the trigger, pointing it at the back of an unarmed and handcuffed man? What exactly does an ?accident? mean in this situation? 

I'm perfectly fine that what I do doesn't register as music to most people. I am sad about 21Grand's problems and how hard it is to maintain spaces for the experimental arts.





>>>I have to say that, much as I would like to distrust and condemn the police
politically as a relatively faceless mass, each one that I have deal with
over the decades (including those who arrested me back in the proverbial
day) have individually been well-meaning, careful, and present. I have seen
police actions that have gone poorly, but my personal experience keeps me
from issuing such mass condemnations.

The same goes for dealings with Israelis and Palestinians. Actually knowing
people makes generalizing about them a lot harder.



      

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 11 20:30:19 2009
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:30:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
Message-ID: <681442.51392.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>From: Philip Gelb assumed:
>a gun does not feel like a tazer.

Actually tazers look and feel a lot like guns (I was stunned at the similarity first time i saw one-?pun literally unintended).? This was?designed as an intimidation tactic so that when a cop draw a tazer you'd think it was a gun and submit.? Well this strategy has backfired more than once.? Time to seriously review this strategy.


Andrew


On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:19 PM, kristin miltner wrote:

> Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
> mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in inherently
> racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
> tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was begging
> not to be tazed.? And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
> mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
> that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known
> visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
> changed anything?
>
> k
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
> <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Easy to say white dude....
>> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer? 
>> intended to reach
>> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.? A tragic,? 
>> reprehensible
>> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
>>
>> -Cliff
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
>> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
>>> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
>>> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
>>> is going to have their gun out.
>>> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
>>> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
>>> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
>>> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
>>> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
>>> people.
>>>
>>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>>>
>>>> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>
>>>> vs.
>>>>
>>>> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>>>>
>>>> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
>>>> changes pretty steeply.
>>>>
>>>> enough to make it? effectively a police-state.
>>>>
>>>> --G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>>>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"? 
>>>>> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>>>>> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>>>>> are not
>>>>> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>>>>> police have
>>>>> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>>>>> say he
>>>>> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>>>>> risks like
>>>>> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>>>>> shooting dope or
>>>>> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>>>>> for the
>>>>> worst.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>> Damon Smith
>>>
>>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>>> New solo project:
>>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.kristinmiltner.net
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From michaelz at zoka.com  Mon Jan 12 13:36:28 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] A sad tale
Message-ID: <p06240812c59167fc45c7@[192.168.0.9]>

I think there are at least a couple of music collectors on this list 
who can relate to this story.

>Dispossessed
>How I Lost Most of My Music Collection-and Nearly My Mind
>by Dave Segal

<http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/dispossessed/Content?oid=879967>


MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 12 17:27:10 2009
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:27:10 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Saturday Night
References: <p06240812c59167fc45c7@[192.168.0.9]>
Message-ID: <ABB0CBB64A184B358D1FB1FD03D74E19@eyefull01>

Thanks to all who showed up at Capp st. on Saturday for ROVA meets Ghost In 
The House. With some good press (thanks to Rent @ Edgetone) we able to get a 
full house and a few in the balcony. I was quite surprised at the turn out 
considering there were 3 other shows that night. They seemed to come out of 
the woodwork; people from my film days and many I use to see at ROVA shows 
in the 80s. I really enjoyed ROVA's set and their collaborations on the 
Ghost In House pieces. The finale with both groups brought the music to a 
place unlike either...
Many thanks to GITH, ROVA and all who attended for such a special night. 
David 


From michaelz at zoka.com  Mon Jan 12 19:34:35 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:34:35 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] S. Clay Wilson Benefit photos
Message-ID: <p0624081ac591b9fd7dd6@[192.168.0.9]>

Some snapshots from last night's Hemlock show:

<http://flickr.com/photos/michaelz1/sets/72157612505311352/>

MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From michaelz at zoka.com  Tue Jan 13 10:03:29 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:03:29 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
In-Reply-To: <F395113D-DC02-459C-930C-3DA46B14222D@pixar.com>
References: <F395113D-DC02-459C-930C-3DA46B14222D@pixar.com>
Message-ID: <p06240826c59286cb7de9@[192.168.0.9]>

On 12/30/08, David Slusser wrote:

>On a lighter note (perhaps), look what's coming to town:
>
>(posted on Erik Friedlander's website)
>
>ZORNFEST 2009 at Yoshi's in Oakland, CA
>http://www.yoshis.com/jazzclub
>March 10- The Secret Chiefs 3 Play Masada
>March 11 - Masada String Trio - 2 sets
>March 12 - Masada Quintet - 2 sets
>March 13 - Bar Kokhba Sextet?- 2 sets
>March 14 - The Dreamers - 2 sets
>March 15 - Electric Masada - 2 sets


FWIW, it looks like this will actually take place at Yoshi's San Francisco:

On 1/13/09, Yoshi's wrote:
>Coming Soon to Yoshi's San Francisco:
>Marcia Ball: March 9
>John Zorn Residency: March 11-15
>Andy Statman: March 23
>Alice Russell: March 24-25


MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jan 13 10:35:31 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:35:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
In-Reply-To: <p06240826c59286cb7de9@[192.168.0.9]>
Message-ID: <741110.44592.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

in addition, trevor dunn and i are setting up an evening of trios (probably monday, march 16), one set will be td with ben goldberg and amendola - another set with td, myself, and probably kjell, if he's around..trying to contact him now...

cheers,
pg


--- On Tue, 1/13/09, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 10:03 AM
> On 12/30/08, David Slusser wrote:
> 
> >On a lighter note (perhaps), look what's coming to
> town:
> >
> >(posted on Erik Friedlander's website)
> >
> >ZORNFEST 2009 at Yoshi's in Oakland, CA
> >http://www.yoshis.com/jazzclub
> >March 10- The Secret Chiefs 3 Play Masada
> >March 11 - Masada String Trio - 2 sets
> >March 12 - Masada Quintet - 2 sets
> >March 13 - Bar Kokhba Sextet?- 2 sets
> >March 14 - The Dreamers - 2 sets
> >March 15 - Electric Masada - 2 sets
> 
> 
> FWIW, it looks like this will actually take place at
> Yoshi's San Francisco:
> 
> On 1/13/09, Yoshi's wrote:
> >Coming Soon to Yoshi's San Francisco:
> >Marcia Ball: March 9
> >John Zorn Residency: March 11-15
> >Andy Statman: March 23
> >Alice Russell: March 24-25
> 
> 
> MZ
> 
> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>              Michael Zelner
> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jan 13 10:44:02 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:44:02 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
In-Reply-To: <741110.44592.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C59220F2.29068%21grand@21grand.org>

Where? 

sl

on 1/13/09 10:35 AM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote:

> in addition, trevor dunn and i are setting up an evening of trios (probably
> monday, march 16), one set will be td with ben goldberg and amendola - another
> set with td, myself, and probably kjell, if he's around..trying to contact him
> now...
> 
> cheers,
> pg
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com>
>> Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 10:03 AM
>> On 12/30/08, David Slusser wrote:
>> 
>>> On a lighter note (perhaps), look what's coming to
>> town:
>>> 
>>> (posted on Erik Friedlander's website)
>>> 
>>> ZORNFEST 2009 at Yoshi's in Oakland, CA
>>> http://www.yoshis.com/jazzclub
>>> March 10- The Secret Chiefs 3 Play Masada
>>> March 11 - Masada String Trio - 2 sets
>>> March 12 - Masada Quintet - 2 sets
>>> March 13 - Bar Kokhba Sextet?- 2 sets
>>> March 14 - The Dreamers - 2 sets
>>> March 15 - Electric Masada - 2 sets
>> 
>> 
>> FWIW, it looks like this will actually take place at
>> Yoshi's San Francisco:
>> 
>> On 1/13/09, Yoshi's wrote:
>>> Coming Soon to Yoshi's San Francisco:
>>> Marcia Ball: March 9
>>> John Zorn Residency: March 11-15
>>> Andy Statman: March 23
>>> Alice Russell: March 24-25
>> 
>> 
>> MZ
>> 
>> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>>              Michael Zelner
>> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Tue Jan 13 12:30:19 2009
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:30:19 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] phillip greenlief phone #
Message-ID: <317505170901131230h2f22d748k3640ea4753a00b8e@mail.gmail.com>

phillip are you out there right now? i would like to call you

ava

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jan 13 15:25:36 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:25:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
In-Reply-To: <C59220F2.29068%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <154392.27819.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i'm looking for a venue....this would be for monday, march 16.

trevor is working with zorn on the 14th and 15th, but will stick around for a few days after so we can catch up on some projects.

any ideas for a venue?
:)

pg


--- On Tue, 1/13/09, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:

> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
> To: "Banewmus List" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 10:44 AM
> Where? 
> 
> sl
> 
> on 1/13/09 10:35 AM, Phillip Greenlief at
> pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote:
> 
> > in addition, trevor dunn and i are setting up an
> evening of trios (probably
> > monday, march 16), one set will be td with ben
> goldberg and amendola - another
> > set with td, myself, and probably kjell, if he's
> around..trying to contact him
> > now...
> > 
> > cheers,
> > pg
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Michael Zelner
> <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com>
> >> Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So
> long)
> >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion
> Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> >> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 10:03 AM
> >> On 12/30/08, David Slusser wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On a lighter note (perhaps), look what's
> coming to
> >> town:
> >>> 
> >>> (posted on Erik Friedlander's website)
> >>> 
> >>> ZORNFEST 2009 at Yoshi's in Oakland, CA
> >>> http://www.yoshis.com/jazzclub
> >>> March 10- The Secret Chiefs 3 Play Masada
> >>> March 11 - Masada String Trio - 2 sets
> >>> March 12 - Masada Quintet - 2 sets
> >>> March 13 - Bar Kokhba Sextet?- 2 sets
> >>> March 14 - The Dreamers - 2 sets
> >>> March 15 - Electric Masada - 2 sets
> >> 
> >> 
> >> FWIW, it looks like this will actually take place
> at
> >> Yoshi's San Francisco:
> >> 
> >> On 1/13/09, Yoshi's wrote:
> >>> Coming Soon to Yoshi's San Francisco:
> >>> Marcia Ball: March 9
> >>> John Zorn Residency: March 11-15
> >>> Andy Statman: March 23
> >>> Alice Russell: March 24-25
> >> 
> >> 
> >> MZ
> >> 
> >> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
> >>              Michael Zelner
> >> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Tue Jan 13 15:58:32 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:58:32 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
In-Reply-To: <154392.27819.qm@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C5926AA8.29083%21grand@21grand.org>

Well, the 17th is the 3rd Tuesday, which would be the date for the Uptown
series.

sl

on 1/13/09 3:25 PM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote:

> i'm looking for a venue....this would be for monday, march 16.
> 
> trevor is working with zorn on the 14th and 15th, but will stick around for a
> few days after so we can catch up on some projects.
> 
> any ideas for a venue?
> :)
> 
> pg
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> 
>> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
>> To: "Banewmus List" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 10:44 AM
>> Where? 
>> 
>> sl



From michaelz at zoka.com  Wed Jan 14 10:38:08 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:38:08 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Theremin cat
Message-ID: <p0624083bc593e0096771@[192.168.0.9]>

Probably old news to you theremin-playing cat fanciers. . . and may 
already have been posted to NewMusic, but anywayz:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ONJfp95yoE>

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Wed Jan 14 11:01:35 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:01:35 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Theremin cat
In-Reply-To: <p0624083bc593e0096771@[192.168.0.9]>
References: <p0624083bc593e0096771@[192.168.0.9]>
Message-ID: <E3FF7EF6-9D89-452A-B956-A58A8D41EF96@matthewgoodheart.com>

looks like http://www.monpa.com/ could now use a composer section. . .

mg


On Jan 14, 2009, at 10:38 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:

> Probably old news to you theremin-playing cat fanciers. . . and may
> already have been posted to NewMusic, but anywayz:
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ONJfp95yoE>
>
> MZ
>
>
> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>             Michael Zelner
> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 12:23:32 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:23:32 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Theremin cat
In-Reply-To: <p0624083bc593e0096771@192.168.0.9>
References: <p0624083bc593e0096771@192.168.0.9>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901141223r13208849ic3cc849d518bfe83@mail.gmail.com>

oh my god THANK YOU, that is the most viciously cute thing i have ever seen.
he is clearly enticed by those sounds in the rodenty frequency range :)

k

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com> wrote:

> Probably old news to you theremin-playing cat fanciers. . . and may
> already have been posted to NewMusic, but anywayz:
>
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ONJfp95yoE>
>
> MZ
>
>
> --------------michaelz at zoka.com---
>              Michael Zelner
> ---Oakland CA USA------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 15:49:26 2009
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:49:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Arts participation sausage
Message-ID: <2eb068d40901141549v20191879m5b8474e03d5248d7@mail.gmail.com>

I'll take the hit, because this announcement would cause puzzlement on
the new music events list -- it isn't really new musicky, but it's
relevant to all of us who present concerts.
I'm on a panel that's presenting on attracting new audiences; see below.
It's also cleverly scheduled so you can to it, then have a leisurely
dinner, then go hear a new music show a little ways up the road!
P.

Program Announcement

Serving New Audiences:  Wallace Grantees Tell Their Stories
Thursday, February 12, 2009  2:00-5:00 PM
Contemporary Jewish Museum
Join our panel of museum and cultural professionals to learn about
their efforts to reach new audiences through their participation in
the Wallace Foundation's Excellence Awards Program. Facilitator John
Killacky, Arts & Culture Program Officer at the San Francisco
Foundation, will lead a discussion about lessons learned and larger
issues/themes raised in the collective work.  Together we will explore
strategies for how to reach new audiences and apply Wallace trends,
research or evaluation data to our own work.

Speakers:
Julie Charles, Associate Curator, Education, SFMOMA
Michella Rivera-Gravage, Director of Digital Media, Center for Asian
American Media
Janine Okmin, Manager of Family, Youth and Community Programs,
Contemporary Jewish Museum
Sheila Pressley, Director of Education, The Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco
Polly Springhorn, Director of Development for Institutional Giving,
San Francisco Girls Chorus

Moderator:
John Killacky, Arts & Culture Program Officer, San Francisco Foundation

Program

2:00-2:30:  	Check in for program at Sala Webb Education Center, first
floor.  Look for a Cultural Connections board member in the lobby for
your admissions ticket and to direct you to the Education Center.

2:30-4:00:  	Presentations

4:00-5:00:  	Networking, snacks and tours of the new Contemporary
Jewish Museum  (2 tours will be offered @ 4:30 PM?an architecture tour
& a tour of Dateline 09)

Program Fee:    Free for Cultural Connections members
			$10 for non-members
			Please RSVP for this program to ccprograms at yahoo.com

Inquiries:		Email info at cultural-connections.org

Location:		Contemporary Jewish Museum
			736 Mission Street (between Third and Fourth streets)
San Francisco, CA  94103
415-655-7800


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
------------------------------------------------------------

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 00:55:05 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:55:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Boss Hoss, and pretty much what happens in Star Wars
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901150055k4b45d1d4q24f79c59df9c5481@mail.gmail.com>

I recently found out about this country cover band from Germany called
Boss Hoss. Ernesto's a member
performing Outcast's "Hey Ya": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C_bw3aDSOI
performing "Word Up" by Cameo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTfWTqQ0dM&feature=related
official website: http://www.thebosshoss.com/

I also found this pretty good summary of what happens in Star Wars
http://vimeo.com/2809991

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 15 10:25:27 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:25:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
In-Reply-To: <C5926AA8.29083%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <188000.86447.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

let me see if trevor can stick around an extra day. that would be a great venue.

i'll get back to you.
pg


--- On Tue, 1/13/09, Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:

> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So long)
> To: "Banewmus List" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 3:58 PM
> Well, the 17th is the 3rd Tuesday, which would be the date
> for the Uptown
> series.
> 
> sl
> 
> on 1/13/09 3:25 PM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net
> wrote:
> 
> > i'm looking for a venue....this would be for
> monday, march 16.
> > 
> > trevor is working with zorn on the 14th and 15th, but
> will stick around for a
> > few days after so we can catch up on some projects.
> > 
> > any ideas for a venue?
> > :)
> > 
> > pg
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Sarah - 21 Grand
> <21grand at 21grand.org> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] ZornFest 2009 (was Re: So
> long)
> >> To: "Banewmus List"
> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> >> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 10:44 AM
> >> Where? 
> >> 
> >> sl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Fri Jan 16 08:51:42 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:51:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Arts participation sausage
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40901141549v20191879m5b8474e03d5248d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <172703.3183.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

well, this "event" really serves the community and is important info to presenters. this qualifies as low-calorie, high protein yielding sausage. you'd have to be foolish not to eat it.


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] Arts participation sausage
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 3:49 PM
> I'll take the hit, because this announcement would cause
> puzzlement on
> the new music events list -- it isn't really new
> musicky, but it's
> relevant to all of us who present concerts.
> I'm on a panel that's presenting on attracting new
> audiences; see below.
> It's also cleverly scheduled so you can to it, then
> have a leisurely
> dinner, then go hear a new music show a little ways up the
> road!
> P.
> 
> Program Announcement
> 
> Serving New Audiences:  Wallace Grantees Tell Their Stories
> Thursday, February 12, 2009  2:00-5:00 PM
> Contemporary Jewish Museum
> Join our panel of museum and cultural professionals to
> learn about
> their efforts to reach new audiences through their
> participation in
> the Wallace Foundation's Excellence Awards Program.
> Facilitator John
> Killacky, Arts & Culture Program Officer at the San
> Francisco
> Foundation, will lead a discussion about lessons learned
> and larger
> issues/themes raised in the collective work.  Together we
> will explore
> strategies for how to reach new audiences and apply Wallace
> trends,
> research or evaluation data to our own work.
> 
> Speakers:
> Julie Charles, Associate Curator, Education, SFMOMA
> Michella Rivera-Gravage, Director of Digital Media, Center
> for Asian
> American Media
> Janine Okmin, Manager of Family, Youth and Community
> Programs,
> Contemporary Jewish Museum
> Sheila Pressley, Director of Education, The Fine Arts
> Museums of San Francisco
> Polly Springhorn, Director of Development for Institutional
> Giving,
> San Francisco Girls Chorus
> 
> Moderator:
> John Killacky, Arts & Culture Program Officer, San
> Francisco Foundation
> 
> Program
> 
> 2:00-2:30:  	Check in for program at Sala Webb Education
> Center, first
> floor.  Look for a Cultural Connections board member in the
> lobby for
> your admissions ticket and to direct you to the Education
> Center.
> 
> 2:30-4:00:  	Presentations
> 
> 4:00-5:00:  	Networking, snacks and tours of the new
> Contemporary
> Jewish Museum  (2 tours will be offered @ 4:30 PM?an
> architecture tour
> & a tour of Dateline 09)
> 
> Program Fee:    Free for Cultural Connections members
> 			$10 for non-members
> 			Please RSVP for this program to ccprograms at yahoo.com
> 
> Inquiries:		Email info at cultural-connections.org
> 
> Location:		Contemporary Jewish Museum
> 			736 Mission Street (between Third and Fourth streets)
> San Francisco, CA  94103
> 415-655-7800
> 
> 
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 16 10:20:51 2009
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:20:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Got a spare?
Message-ID: <291279.22474.qm@web51609.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://www.thedailyswarm.com/headlines/kidney-donor-sought-jazz-giant-david-s-ware/


      

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Fri Jan 16 10:34:26 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:34:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] New and forthcoming BPA cds
Message-ID: <084B2308-87BC-463F-AE8B-1DC56B684D03@balancepointacoustics.com>

New and available now:
Mimetic Holds - Balancepoint Acoustics - BPA 100

Frank Gratkowski (Germany) - Alto Sax,Clarinet

Scott R. Looney (USA) - Prepared and Unprepared Piano

Damon Smith (USA) - Contrabass

Kjell Nordeson (Sweden) - Drums, Percussion

This quartet pairs two explosive players, sax and clarinet titan  
Frank Gratkowski, and high-energy drummer and percussionist Kjell  
Nordeson (Mats gustafson,Ken Vandermark) w/ pianist Scott Looney and  
bassist Damon Smith in an exciting, incredibly intense, and varied  
series of sonic landscapes, from hard blowing free jazz to extremely  
sparse textures, all within the boundaries of cooperative  
composition. Recorded live in Santa Cruz at Kuumbwa Jazz (#1-5) and  
in Oakland (#6) at  Studio 1510 in October 2004.

You can send a paypal for $15 PP worldwide to  
damon at balancepointacoustics.com
Get it here from Emusic:
http://www.emusic.com/album/Frank-Gratkowski-Mimetic-Holds-MP3- 
Download/11333293.html
Or Itunes:
Here at Itunes:
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum? 
id=296945966&s=143441

Coming very, very soon will "ThoughtBeetle" By Bertram Turetzky and  
Damon Smith.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 17:09:36 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:09:36 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] ::New Disc Out on the Personal Imprint::
Message-ID: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>

Hallo Everyone,

Announcing the official release of Satellite's (this being the
prepared instrument/electroacoustic ensemble consisting of Liz
Meredith, Steini Gunnarsson and myself) first full-length disc, hereby
known under it's proper moniker of Sylvedic. All said, It's pretty
righteous and probably one of my favorite personal recordings,
blending the proper amount of space and activity, ebbing and flowing
in linear circles, spiraled and distilled again back to the
beginning... Or something poetic to that extent.

More sounds, info and order info live here:
http://think-tankmedia.net/satellite/releases/sylvedic.html

Got ten bucks to spare? We'd love to take it off your hands. Wanna
trade? Drop a line. Need a lounge act for your latest space cabaret?
Get it touch.

Currently, we be limited to 25 hand-assembled reflective plastic discs
for hock. After they're gone, you gotta wait till the moon is right to
nab one again, possibly only under the guise of "collector's
edition..."

Capitalist meat products, have ye no mercy.

t.

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 18 13:42:34 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:42:34 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Board games in Mission tonight
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901181342j61b71b45rc70a55f5aec3ac8b@mail.gmail.com>

A few of us are meeting at Muddy Waters near 16th and Mission tonight
to play some board games tonight. Folks are welcome to join us if they
want.

6pm-10pm
Muddy Waters
521 Valencia (@16th)
San Francisco

In the off chance that you don't know us already, I'll be wearing
green cargo pants and a rust-colored shirt.

Matt
cell 510-459-1507

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 18 20:26:16 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:26:16 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 18 20:32:34 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:32:34 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W40FF14C0A581DE7960957BC1D30@phx.gbl>


I see that's old news, sorry, I guess it's already been dissected, interesting anyway,especially for anyone who's done that.> From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:26:16 -0800> Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us> > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html> _________________________________________________________________> Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=T_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009> _______________________________________________> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group> NewMusic at music.mills.edu> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009

From jzitt at metatronpress.com  Sun Jan 18 21:12:58 2009
From: jzitt at metatronpress.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 00:12:58 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <cf60725f0901182112n513db6b5sa0d624742dd15813@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, this thing again.

As those of us who have lived in DC and experienced the morning rush
at this station can attest, it was just the wrong venue for this
stunt. It fails to prove much of anything, other than that a writer
can find a way to feel superior to the audience for a rigged test if
he so desires.

On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM, George Cremaschi
<gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocidTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Sun Jan 18 21:19:41 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:19:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us
In-Reply-To: <cf60725f0901182112n513db6b5sa0d624742dd15813@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
	<cf60725f0901182112n513db6b5sa0d624742dd15813@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63FEFFD0-B097-4FA2-BD5F-419718417580@balancepointacoustics.com>

I don't know, last time I played at bart it was for an hour or so at  
24th st. station, I was playing mostly Mingus and I made $27 +  
change, so it sounds about right.

On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Ah, this thing again.
>
> As those of us who have lived in DC and experienced the morning rush
> at this station can attest, it was just the wrong venue for this
> stunt. It fails to prove much of anything, other than that a writer
> can find a way to feel superior to the audience for a rigged test if
> he so desires.
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM, George Cremaschi
> <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/ 
>> AR2007040401721.html
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live? Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
>> http://windowslive.com/explore? 
>> ocidTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 01:35:09 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:35:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Muddy Fail...(was Board games in Mission tonight)
References: <c70e517b0901181342j61b71b45rc70a55f5aec3ac8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <465836.51489.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

The only thing more pathetic than me showing up at 8 pm for the second round of hot gaming action to find NO ONE THERE, is the fact that it wasn't on youtube...or maybe you guys just taped me, and I'm the butt of the joke...

lettuce




________________________________
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 1:42:34 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Board games in Mission tonight

A few of us are meeting at Muddy Waters near 16th and Mission tonight
to play some board games tonight. Folks are welcome to join us if they
want.

6pm-10pm
Muddy Waters
521 Valencia (@16th)
San Francisco

In the off chance that you don't know us already, I'll be wearing
green cargo pants and a rust-colored shirt.

Matt
cell 510-459-1507
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 09:31:43 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:31:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
	<cf60725f0901182112n513db6b5sa0d624742dd15813@mail.gmail.com>
	<63FEFFD0-B097-4FA2-BD5F-419718417580@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <339238.53718.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Clearly, 89K per year is "chump change"...plus the guy didn't have an act...never underestimate the power of promotion...


lettuce




________________________________
From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:19:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us

I don't know, last time I played at bart it was for an hour or so at
24th st. station, I was playing mostly Mingus and I made $27 +
change, so it sounds about right.

On Jan 18, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Ah, this thing again.
>
> As those of us who have lived in DC and experienced the morning rush
> at this station can attest, it was just the wrong venue for this
> stunt. It fails to prove much of anything, other than that a writer
> can find a way to feel superior to the audience for a rigged test if
> he so desires.
>
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 11:26 PM, George Cremaschi
> <gcremaschi at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/
>> AR2007040401721.html
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live? Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
>> http://windowslive.com/explore?
>> ocidTXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From polly.moller at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 10:26:36 2009
From: polly.moller at gmail.com (Polly Moller)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:26:36 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muddy Fail...(was Board games in Mission tonight)
In-Reply-To: <465836.51489.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <c70e517b0901181342j61b71b45rc70a55f5aec3ac8b@mail.gmail.com>
	<465836.51489.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2eb068d40901191026w2661f57cjcab1bc0e3d3fc4d5@mail.gmail.com>

 Matt, looks like you'd better give out your cell phone number, so
folks can find us when we take a dinner break. :)
P.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The only thing more pathetic than me showing up at 8 pm for the second round of hot gaming action to find NO ONE THERE, is the fact that it wasn't on youtube...or maybe you guys just taped me, and I'm the butt of the joke...
>
> lettuce
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 1:42:34 PM
> Subject: [NewMusic] Board games in Mission tonight
>
> A few of us are meeting at Muddy Waters near 16th and Mission tonight
> to play some board games tonight. Folks are welcome to join us if they
> want.
>
> 6pm-10pm
> Muddy Waters
> 521 Valencia (@16th)
> San Francisco
>
> In the off chance that you don't know us already, I'll be wearing
> green cargo pants and a rust-colored shirt.
>
> Matt
> cell 510-459-1507
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
------------------------------------------------------------

From dmichalak at sbcglobal.net  Mon Jan 19 10:34:27 2009
From: dmichalak at sbcglobal.net (dmichalak)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:34:27 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] DRB @ Celia's
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com><BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl><cf60725f0901182112n513db6b5sa0d624742dd15813@mail.gmail.com><63FEFFD0-B097-4FA2-BD5F-419718417580@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<339238.53718.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50E61FEF13CE42718D432C428A3553A7@eyefull01>

Pass the guacamole......Doctor Bob had a great time at Celia's last night. 
It was kind of like playing in Bob's living room; very cozy. ...a very 
enthusiastic crowd too....and some good food. Thanks to those who came. D.


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 12:42:27 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:42:27 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Muddy Fail...(was Board games in Mission tonight)
In-Reply-To: <2eb068d40901191026w2661f57cjcab1bc0e3d3fc4d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0901181342j61b71b45rc70a55f5aec3ac8b@mail.gmail.com>
	<465836.51489.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<2eb068d40901191026w2661f57cjcab1bc0e3d3fc4d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901191242v4d4eda5o6b37e8f531907fb4@mail.gmail.com>

Ron, I'm sorry you missed our hot (sweaty) gaming action last night.
8pm was when we went next door for dinner, since the cafe only had
scones. I was hoping that people would call my cell if they didn't see
us there.

If you want, I'll add you to the games night list. We frequently meet
on Sundays in SF, Oakland or Berkeley  - usually at peoples houses.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Matt, looks like you'd better give out your cell phone number, so
> folks can find us when we take a dinner break. :)
> P.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The only thing more pathetic than me showing up at 8 pm for the second round of hot gaming action to find NO ONE THERE, is the fact that it wasn't on youtube...or maybe you guys just taped me, and I'm the butt of the joke...
>>
>> lettuce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 1:42:34 PM
>> Subject: [NewMusic] Board games in Mission tonight
>>
>> A few of us are meeting at Muddy Waters near 16th and Mission tonight
>> to play some board games tonight. Folks are welcome to join us if they
>> want.
>>
>> 6pm-10pm
>> Muddy Waters
>> 521 Valencia (@16th)
>> San Francisco
>>
>> In the off chance that you don't know us already, I'll be wearing
>> green cargo pants and a rust-colored shirt.
>>
>> Matt
>> cell 510-459-1507
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 13:37:29 2009
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <246860.42447.qm@web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As someone who used to play in public places all the time and never made a cent, I was suprised he made $32.17 until?it mentions at the end one person recognized him and threw in a twenty.? Thanks for the article!

Andrew
?http://www.andrewwilshusen.com


http://oudevoida.blogspot.com




----- Original Message ----
From: George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:26:16 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



      

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 13:53:51 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:53:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Muddy Fail...(was Board games in Mission tonight)
References: <c70e517b0901181342j61b71b45rc70a55f5aec3ac8b@mail.gmail.com>
	<465836.51489.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<2eb068d40901191026w2661f57cjcab1bc0e3d3fc4d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901191242v4d4eda5o6b37e8f531907fb4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <808600.34302.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I kinda figured that either you guys moved, or no one showed up...But I had no clue in what direction you would have headed. I just happened to be going to the Japonize Elephants show at Amnesia, and figured I'd stop by, since it was walking distance...

lettuce



________________________________
From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:42:27 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Muddy Fail...(was Board games in Mission tonight)

Ron, I'm sorry you missed our hot (sweaty) gaming action last night.
8pm was when we went next door for dinner, since the cafe only had
scones. I was hoping that people would call my cell if they didn't see
us there.

If you want, I'll add you to the games night list. We frequently meet
on Sundays in SF, Oakland or Berkeley? - usually at peoples houses.

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Polly Moller <polly.moller at gmail.com> wrote:
>? Matt, looks like you'd better give out your cell phone number, so
> folks can find us when we take a dinner break. :)
> P.
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> The only thing more pathetic than me showing up at 8 pm for the second round of hot gaming action to find NO ONE THERE, is the fact that it wasn't on youtube...or maybe you guys just taped me, and I'm the butt of the joke...
>>
>> lettuce
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
>> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 1:42:34 PM
>> Subject: [NewMusic] Board games in Mission tonight
>>
>> A few of us are meeting at Muddy Waters near 16th and Mission tonight
>> to play some board games tonight. Folks are welcome to join us if they
>> want.
>>
>> 6pm-10pm
>> Muddy Waters
>> 521 Valencia (@16th)
>> San Francisco
>>
>> In the off chance that you don't know us already, I'll be wearing
>> green cargo pants and a rust-colored shirt.
>>
>> Matt
>> cell 510-459-1507
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/reconnaissancefly
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.myspace.com/twistnomore
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From liberatednsf at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 19 14:14:36 2009
From: liberatednsf at yahoo.com (andrew wilshusen)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:14:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us
References: <d3165c060901171709j1cb77213v31bf5a5e3530cc7e@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU136-W356AA9EEF3D8DA33CCD23AC1D30@phx.gbl>
	<246860.42447.qm@web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <719301.86382.qm@web30603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Translation:? I was suprised he made $32 playing for 45 minutes in the subway station until it reveals at the end someone recognized him and gave him a twenty.? thanks for the article!


?http://www.andrewwilshusen.com 


http://oudevoida.blogspot.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: andrew wilshusen <liberatednsf at yahoo.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 1:37:29 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] life slowly starts to choke the poetry out of us

?(??'{h?????ek(??????ei??jYm??b???vw?z??u??z{H??,?????azf?{}?????X???????j?ay???w?z?(??????? ???a?f?v?k{?j?????????+???????'v????i??0?????0?[!???r???????z?"u???)??(????)???????&?+???zf?r?r??j?!?-???r???w???"rk?????[v????????%??j???m4??????J??y?M{.?'%?????%??Z??-??h??az????????m????0j?b?h??,??&?
]???{^??????????N???????M;??8?^??f?h?v?,.+??fj)B??R???J?x:&?????fj)a????v?,?+?r??{e???r'Mt?


      

From normalsf at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 21 01:20:08 2009
From: normalsf at earthlink.net (PT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:20:08 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Mushroom performs Pete Townshend's Lifehouse rock opera
Message-ID: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>

Saturday Feb 21st - Make Out Room (san francisco)
Friday March 6th - Starry Plough (berkeley)

Mushroom plays Pete Townshend's rock opera "Lifehouse" featuring songs from 
The Who's "Who's Next"

For the past decade, Mushroom's blend of tribal drumming, space rock 
guitars, and trippy keyboards has blended together to create psychedelic 
jams and mind-expanding sounds. Tonight, Mushroom joins with vocalist Patty 
Spiglanin (of the Naked Barbies) to present Pete Townshend's 1971 rock opera 
"Lifehouse" - originally intended to be the follow up to the legendary rock 
opera "Tommy".  "Lifehouse" was never performed or recorded by The Who - but 
many of the songs became the cornerstone for The Who's 1971 classic album 
"Who's Next".  Mushroom will be performing "Who's Next" and "Lifehouse" 
songs with an amazingly powerful blend of vocalists, guitarists, crazy 
intense drumming and plenty of those futuristic analog synthesizer sounds 
made famous on songs like "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Riley".

By late 1970 or so, when Pete Townshend and the Who were tired of
performing Tommy - Pete began writing a new "rock opera" called Lifehouse -
that was planned to be a double album and a movie. It was science fiction in nature
 (or least it took place in the future - including something called "the grid" - which we now know as the World Wide Web).

Anyway, Pete wrote (and demo'd) nearly a double album's worth of great songs
for Lifehouse - but was unable to convince the rest of The Who of the exact
nature of what the whole thing was supposed to be about.

Many of the songs were recorded by The Who - but most of it was tossed to
the side and the single album became known as "Who's Next" - perhaps the
greatest Who album ever.  

From normalsf at earthlink.net  Wed Jan 21 01:20:08 2009
From: normalsf at earthlink.net (PT)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:20:08 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Mushroom performs Pete Townshend's Lifehouse rock opera
Message-ID: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>

Saturday Feb 21st - Make Out Room (san francisco)
Friday March 6th - Starry Plough (berkeley)

Mushroom plays Pete Townshend's rock opera "Lifehouse" featuring songs from 
The Who's "Who's Next"

For the past decade, Mushroom's blend of tribal drumming, space rock 
guitars, and trippy keyboards has blended together to create psychedelic 
jams and mind-expanding sounds. Tonight, Mushroom joins with vocalist Patty 
Spiglanin (of the Naked Barbies) to present Pete Townshend's 1971 rock opera 
"Lifehouse" - originally intended to be the follow up to the legendary rock 
opera "Tommy".  "Lifehouse" was never performed or recorded by The Who - but 
many of the songs became the cornerstone for The Who's 1971 classic album 
"Who's Next".  Mushroom will be performing "Who's Next" and "Lifehouse" 
songs with an amazingly powerful blend of vocalists, guitarists, crazy 
intense drumming and plenty of those futuristic analog synthesizer sounds 
made famous on songs like "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Riley".

By late 1970 or so, when Pete Townshend and the Who were tired of
performing Tommy - Pete began writing a new "rock opera" called Lifehouse -
that was planned to be a double album and a movie. It was science fiction in nature
 (or least it took place in the future - including something called "the grid" - which we now know as the World Wide Web).

Anyway, Pete wrote (and demo'd) nearly a double album's worth of great songs
for Lifehouse - but was unable to convince the rest of The Who of the exact
nature of what the whole thing was supposed to be about.

Many of the songs were recorded by The Who - but most of it was tossed to
the side and the single album became known as "Who's Next" - perhaps the
greatest Who album ever.  

From michaelz at zoka.com  Wed Jan 21 12:13:37 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:13:37 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Thumb piano fans, take note
Message-ID: <p06240818c59bcee65e6e@[192.168.0.2]>

 From Parade Magazine's Ask Marilyn column:

>Why haven't we invented any new instruments for orchestras? One 
>always sees the same violins, horns, and so on.
>-Cheryl Morris, Rockville, Md.
>
>New instruments require new composers. Conductors aren't going to 
>add a novel instrument to a classical composition. It would be like 
>adding a character to a Shakespeare play.
>
>Yet you can hear plenty of new or unfamiliar instruments, such as 
>thumb pianos, in some modern compositions. Check your local music 
>scene for what is often called "new sounds."

<http://www.parade.com/askmarilyn/archive/Sundays-Column-01-11-09.html>



From letucepry at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 21 13:53:13 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:53:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Thumb piano fans, take note
References: <p06240818c59bcee65e6e@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <50450.75902.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Does anybody know where I can find some of these "new sounds"???


lettuce




________________________________
From: Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:13:37 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Thumb piano fans, take note

>From Parade Magazine's Ask Marilyn column:

>Why haven't we invented any new instruments for orchestras? One 
>always sees the same violins, horns, and so on.
>-Cheryl Morris, Rockville, Md.
>
>New instruments require new composers. Conductors aren't going to 
>add a novel instrument to a classical composition. It would be like 
>adding a character to a Shakespeare play.
>
>Yet you can hear plenty of new or unfamiliar instruments, such as 
>thumb pianos, in some modern compositions. Check your local music 
>scene for what is often called "new sounds."

<http://www.parade.com/askmarilyn/archive/Sundays-Column-01-11-09.html>


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 21 14:09:55 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:09:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Thumb piano fans, take note
References: <p06240818c59bcee65e6e@[192.168.0.2]>
	<50450.75902.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <950982.47291.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Bay Area New Music Discussion Group - now with "new sounds" as seen on Ask Marilyn...


lettuce




________________________________
From: Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:53:13 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Thumb piano fans, take note

Does anybody know where I can find some of these "new sounds"???


lettuce




________________________________
From: Michael Zelner <michaelz at zoka.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:13:37 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] Thumb piano fans, take note

>From Parade Magazine's Ask Marilyn column:

>Why haven't we invented any new instruments for orchestras? One 
>always sees the same violins, horns, and so on.
>-Cheryl Morris, Rockville, Md.
>
>New instruments require new composers. Conductors aren't going to 
>add a novel instrument to a classical composition. It would be like 
>adding a character to a Shakespeare play.
>
>Yet you can hear plenty of new or unfamiliar instruments, such as 
>thumb pianos, in some modern compositions. Check your local music 
>scene for what is often called "new sounds."

<http://www.parade.com/askmarilyn/archive/Sundays-Column-01-11-09.html>


_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From ava.mendoza at gmail.com  Wed Jan 21 15:31:03 2009
From: ava.mendoza at gmail.com (Ava Mendoza)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:31:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] music and politics
In-Reply-To: <681442.51392.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <98198.81158.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<D0CCE1B9-99D9-4F07-8309-6260A9B2A854@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<e18daac20901081258h246f1074l89563c56ac67d4c9@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901081319p6b05d579o78eb9ddd78bebca2@mail.gmail.com>
	<54F8A99B-7998-45BB-B760-E38305182BEF@philipgelb.com>
	<681442.51392.qm@web30505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <317505170901211531tbf2b35dp2dd87a4ccc5d776e@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-was-demolished-in-three-weeks-rebuilding-it-will-take-years-1451411.html

the benefit at Totally Intense on monday managed to raise almost
$1000.... mostly symbolic of course considering how much aid is
actually needed, but it still felt good to do it.

"Until Gaza has continual access to the outside world, any real
reconstruction will be impossible. A senior EU official said no aid
would be spent rebuilding buildings and infrastructure while Hamas
remained in control."

the EU blows my mind... Hamas are the elected rulers of palestine.
yes, they're the ones fighting israel but they're also the only ones
providing infrastructure, attending to the distribution of food,
medical supplies etc... saying there will be no aid until hamas is no
longer in control is essentially mandating that a bunch of people will
be without food or medical aid for an indefinite period of time.
without the rebuilding of infrastructure (roads,etc) it's difficult or
impossible to get any supplies in at all.


ava


On 1/11/09, andrew wilshusen <liberatednsf at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >From: Philip Gelb assumed:
>
> >a gun does not feel like a tazer.
>
>
> Actually tazers look and feel a lot like guns (I was stunned at the similarity first time i saw one- pun literally unintended).  This was designed as an intimidation tactic so that when a cop draw a tazer you'd think it was a gun and submit.  Well this strategy has backfired more than once.  Time to seriously review this strategy.
>
>
>
>  Andrew
>
>
>
>  On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:19 PM, kristin miltner wrote:
>
>  > Yeah, a horrible mistake mixed with poor judgment -- the ratio of
>  > mistake to bad decision making is not really clear. Not in inherently
>  > racist, maybe, but definitely violent and questionable, even the
>  > tazer...they already had him pinned to the ground, and he was begging
>  > not to be tazed.  And of course one has to ask, how easy is it to
>  > mistake a gun for a tazer? Are all of us in danger of experiencing
>  > that same mistake, or only young black guys? If they wold have known
>  > visually somehow that he had a toddler at home, would that have
>  > changed anything?
>  >
>  > k
>  >
>  > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, cliff caruthers
>  > <cliffcaruthers at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >> Easy to say white dude....
>  >> However, from what I have read, it is probable the officer
>  >> intended to reach
>  >> for his tazer and grabbed his handgun by mistake.  A tragic,
>  >> reprehensible
>  >> mistake, but not inherently racist, imo.
>  >>
>  >> -Cliff
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Damon Smith <
>  >> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> I am not sure that flies as well as it used to - Bay Area police
>  >>> forces seem to be pretty mixed race. I would say that a police
>  >>> officer responding to a violent situation near an East Oakland stop
>  >>> is going to have their gun out.
>  >>> Their are a ton of complex social factors that go into the higher
>  >>> likely hood of a young African American male in Oakland being armed.
>  >>> While that is a sad and unfortunate situation police officers cannot
>  >>> pretend that is not the case if they want to do that job and live.
>  >>> I don't buy the idea that Bart cops are going around looking execute
>  >>> people.
>  >>>
>  >>> On Jan 8, 2009, at 10:53 AM, ted brinkley wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>> young/black/male/fighting/Bart
>  >>>>
>  >>>> vs.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> young/white/male/fighting/Bart
>  >>>>
>  >>>> change that one variable and the ratio of "fatal risk" you speak of
>  >>>> changes pretty steeply.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> enough to make it  effectively a police-state.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> --G
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>  >>>> wrote:
>  >>>>
>  >>>>> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>
>  >>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] music and politics
>  >>>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group"
>  >>>>> <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>  >>>>> Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:31 AM
>  >>>>> I just don't think knee jerk reactions are best. If you
>  >>>>> are not
>  >>>>> fighting on bart, you won't end up in a situation where
>  >>>>> police have
>  >>>>> their guns out. Not to say the guy deserved it, but I would
>  >>>>> say he
>  >>>>> made the choice to engage in an activity with clear fatal
>  >>>>> risks like
>  >>>>> rock climbing, skydiving, hunting with Dick Cheney,
>  >>>>> shooting dope or
>  >>>>> any number of other things and it unfortunately turned out
>  >>>>> for the
>  >>>>> worst.
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> _______________________________________________
>  >>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>  >>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>  >>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>  >>>
>  >>> Damon Smith
>  >>>
>  >>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>  >>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>  >>> New solo project:
>  >>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> _______________________________________________
>  >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>  >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>  >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>  >>>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>  >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>  >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > kristin miltner
>  > audio professional
>  > www.kristinmiltner.net
>  > www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
>  > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
>  > http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>  > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>  > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>  NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>  http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>  NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>  http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>


-- 
www.myspace.com/avamendoza
www.myspace.com/mutesocialite
http://www.bayimproviser.com/avamendoza

From td at pixar.com  Wed Jan 21 21:43:15 2009
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:43:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Mushroom performs Pete Townshend's Lifehouse rock
 opera
In-Reply-To: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>
References: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0901212137040.10066@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>


I hope you're not seving those disgusting English sausages.  Yes, Minister
calls them "High fat offal tubes".

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009, PT wrote:
> Saturday Feb 21st - Make Out Room (san francisco)
> Friday March 6th - Starry Plough (berkeley)

-- 
Tom Duff.  Press 'Y' if you promise not to do it again.

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Wed Jan 21 21:51:32 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:51:32 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Mushroom performs Pete Townshend's Lifehouse rock
	opera
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0901212137040.10066@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
References: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0901212137040.10066@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
Message-ID: <3FE8C0FE-B72E-48B5-975A-F9398934769B@balancepointacoustics.com>

I almost picked up some British bangers tonight but I passed on them  
in favor of Boar's Head Brats and some basic Saag's bockwurst.
Speaking of all this the issue #6 of Meat Paper is out and available  
at Issues:
http://www.meatpaper.com/
Issues is the best thing that has happened to Piedmont ave., ever.   
If you want to go the other direction entirely you can also get the  
new STN with the article about Gelb's series there.

On Jan 21, 2009, at 9:43 PM, Tom Duff wrote:

>
> I hope you're not seving those disgusting English sausages.  Yes,  
> Minister
> calls them "High fat offal tubes".
>
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009, PT wrote:
>> Saturday Feb 21st - Make Out Room (san francisco)
>> Friday March 6th - Starry Plough (berkeley)
>
> -- 
> Tom Duff.  Press 'Y' if you promise not to do it again.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From td at pixar.com  Thu Jan 22 09:05:44 2009
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:05:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] HK nominated for AA
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0901220901120.9309@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>


Henry Kaiser (and Werner Herzog) have been nominated for an Academy
Award for Best Documentary Feature, on behalf of their film Encounters
at the End of the World.

(And, we [Pixar] got seven nominations, Wall-e for Best Animated Feature
Film, Best Original Screenplay, Best Original Score, Best Original Song,
Best Sound Mixing and Best Sound Editing.  And Best Animated Short
Film for Presto.)

See www.oscar.com


-- 
Tom Duff.  Sir, we must now write music for the next millennium!

From tfbsaxman at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 22 11:57:57 2009
From: tfbsaxman at hotmail.com (Michael Cooke)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 11:57:57 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] SFCCO need an Alto sax
Message-ID: <BAY102-W455BA812E7AB768DC2EAB0B7CE0@phx.gbl>


We had our second bassoon drop out of our February concert. There are 3 pieces with Alto sax that I was going to play but now I need to stay on bassoon. We are looking for a volunteer to play alto sax on our Feb 28th concert. (one of the pieces using alto is my composition which uses some improvisation) We are also looking for a volunteer to play contrabassoon/bassoon.

Please contact board at sfcco.org if you are interested in volunteering. (I'll be out of town for awhile so please contact the sfcco and not me)

REHEARSAL AND CONCERT SCHEDULE



Rehearsal #1: 7pm Thursday, February 19 (LWH)

Rehearsal #2: 7pm Sunday, February 22 (LWH)

Rehearsal #3: 7pm Thursday, February 26 (LWH)

Rehearsal #4: 7pm Friday, February 27 (Old First Church)

Concert: 8pm Saturday, February 28 (Old First Church)



LWH: Lick W. High School Music Room, 755 Ocean

Old First: Old First Presbyterian Church, 1751 Sacramento


Michael Cooke

http://www.michaelkcooke.com/


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 22 14:33:42 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:33:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] SFCCO need an Alto sax
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-W455BA812E7AB768DC2EAB0B7CE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <315601.39814.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

volunteer, meaning: no pay for the gig/rehearsal?

just checking..
pg


--- On Thu, 1/22/09, Michael Cooke <tfbsaxman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Cooke <tfbsaxman at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] SFCCO need an Alto sax
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: board at sfcco.org
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 2009, 11:57 AM
> We had our second bassoon drop out of our February concert.
> There are 3 pieces with Alto sax that I was going to play
> but now I need to stay on bassoon. We are looking for a
> volunteer to play alto sax on our Feb 28th concert. (one of
> the pieces using alto is my composition which uses some
> improvisation) We are also looking for a volunteer to play
> contrabassoon/bassoon.
> 
> Please contact board at sfcco.org if you are interested in
> volunteering. (I'll be out of town for awhile so please
> contact the sfcco and not me)
> 
> REHEARSAL AND CONCERT SCHEDULE
> 
> 
> 
> Rehearsal #1: 7pm Thursday, February 19 (LWH)
> 
> Rehearsal #2: 7pm Sunday, February 22 (LWH)
> 
> Rehearsal #3: 7pm Thursday, February 26 (LWH)
> 
> Rehearsal #4: 7pm Friday, February 27 (Old First Church)
> 
> Concert: 8pm Saturday, February 28 (Old First Church)
> 
> 
> 
> LWH: Lick W. High School Music Room, 755 Ocean
> 
> Old First: Old First Presbyterian Church, 1751 Sacramento
> 
> 
> Michael Cooke
> 
> http://www.michaelkcooke.com/
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail.
> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jan 23 00:22:01 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:22:01 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
Message-ID: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>

 From todays NYT;

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=1&hp

. . . sweet land of mediaocracy. . .

mg



Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From highhorse at mhorse.com  Fri Jan 23 09:04:23 2009
From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:04:23 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
In-Reply-To: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <4979F897.6080609@mhorse.com>

Sometimes I wish we didn't have the technology...why not set up a small 
glass shelter with a couple of heatlamps instead of miming it?? Imagine 
if the sequence failed - I'm sure SNL has really good gear, but they 
still killed Ashlee Simpson's "career" with their technical slipup. All 
four musicians would have looked immediately ridiculous and it'd have 
been much worse for the vibe of the day than a forgivable broken string.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com


>  From todays NYT;
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=1&hp
>
> . . . sweet land of mediaocracy. . .
>
> mg
>   


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 09:24:22 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:24:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
References: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<4979F897.6080609@mhorse.com>
Message-ID: <897525.87409.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Now, we'll never be able to trust that Yo-Yo Ma is actually playing his cello...He should get a nose job and dye?his hair a different color...Maybe Joe Simpson can manage him too...


lettuce


(oh, wasn't it the drummer's fault in the Ashlee Simpson case?)?




________________________________
From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse at mhorse.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:04:23 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .

Sometimes I wish we didn't have the technology...why not set up a small 
glass shelter with a couple of heatlamps instead of miming it?? Imagine 
if the sequence failed - I'm sure SNL has really good gear, but they 
still killed Ashlee Simpson's "career" with their technical slipup. All 
four musicians would have looked immediately ridiculous and it'd have 
been much worse for the vibe of the day than a forgivable broken string.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com


>? From todays NYT;
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=1&hp
>
> . . . sweet land of mediaocracy. . .
>
> mg
>? 

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From michaelz at zoka.com  Fri Jan 23 09:38:41 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
In-Reply-To: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <p06240844c59fb06d37ea@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/23/09, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

>  From todays NYT;
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=1&hp
>
>. . . sweet land of mediaocracy. . .

There's more to this story:

<http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/216593/january-21-2009/president-yo-yo-ma>

MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 10:30:32 2009
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:30:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
References: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <982779.17260.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

That was good to know, I was amazed that they played so well in tune and together under those circumstances and now no why.?I kept looking for some heat source and didn't see any and even than it couldn't have made that much difference in tuning.??
?Jon Raskin 




________________________________
From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:22:01 AM
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .

From todays NYT;

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=1&hp

. . . sweet land of mediaocracy. . .

mg



Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From weaselw at juno.com  Fri Jan 23 10:29:17 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:29:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
Message-ID: <20090123.103915.3780.90.weaselw@juno.com>

yo ma ma is like, "it was wicked cold." ha ha ha.

ww
 
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:04:23 -0600 Daryl Shawn <highhorse at mhorse.com>
writes:
> Sometimes I wish we didn't have the technology...why not set up a 
> small 
> glass shelter with a couple of heatlamps instead of miming it?? 
> Imagine 
> if the sequence failed - I'm sure SNL has really good gear, but they 
> 
> still killed Ashlee Simpson's "career" with their technical slipup. 
> All 
> four musicians would have looked immediately ridiculous and it'd 
> have 
> been much worse for the vibe of the day than a forgivable broken 
> string.
> 
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> 
> 
> >  From todays NYT;
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=1&hp
> >
> > . . . sweet land of mediaocracy. . .
> >
> > mg
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Hotel pics, info and virtual tours.  Click here to book a hotel online.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw2iLrXeFhGWBPcQYaM1MVCgFOkbKIwAevjzNuHLncq83AfTI/

From walters at doubtfulpalace.com  Fri Jan 23 11:38:30 2009
From: walters at doubtfulpalace.com (Tim Walters)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:38:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
In-Reply-To: <982779.17260.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<982779.17260.qm@web55603.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20781.198.1232739510.squirrel@o2.hostbaby.com>

He had some help from the occasion, the performance, and the fact that
"Simple Gifts" was my grandfather's favorite song, but still: John
Williams wrote something that made me tear up. I sure wasn't expecting
that.

-- 
Tim Walters | http://doubtfulpalace.com



From highhorse at mhorse.com  Fri Jan 23 11:42:21 2009
From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:42:21 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] The Show Must Go On. . .
In-Reply-To: <897525.87409.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <7EDFB1B1-8F7E-4EE1-93EF-D998523E1316@matthewgoodheart.com>	<4979F897.6080609@mhorse.com>
	<897525.87409.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <497A1D9D.1040506@mhorse.com>

Oops, yes, upon quick perusal you are right. Human error...which of 
course technology can always amplify.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4

('twas later determined that, among other options, the most likely was 
that the sample rate was set incorrectly on the sequence, causing it to 
migrate a few semitones...)

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com

> (oh, wasn't it the drummer's fault in the Ashlee Simpson case?) 
>   


From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Fri Jan 23 13:19:32 2009
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:19:32 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] The Dough Must Go On
Message-ID: <C59F7464.1C52C%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

I was also surprised to see such fragile instruments out there in the
"wicked cold" playing in tune. Frankly, I don't blame them one bit for
prerecording. Those instruments weren't designed for playing out in the
elements at that temperature, nor are those superstars used to playing in
it. Unlike the military brass groups who, I'm sure, have have spent their
time playing outside.

More importantly, the SF Girls Chorus (and those scruffy boys next to them)
certainly didn't phone it in! They really made music.

So, just as we don't expect to see real dinosaurs in a Hollywood film, why
should we expect top concert artists to risk sounding like weak high-school
players just to prove they can play in near-freezing weather? I mean, c'mon:
most of the artists singing on records today aren't really hitting those
pitches accurately: Auto-Tune and Melodyne are....


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Fri Jan 23 14:04:22 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:04:22 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] New product - ambient sequencer AS-606
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901231404m356108cche221605af9b4faa0@mail.gmail.com>

Did you think about how to create ambient music that sounds like
somebody left a brick on a synthesizer and went for a cup of coffee ?
Well now you can! With Ambient Sequencer AS-606 it is possible to
compose music that lasts several aeons and is very simple to use.

http://www.possecrewensemble.com/as606/

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 23 15:00:07 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:00:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Dough Must Go On
References: <C59F7464.1C52C%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <950307.13857.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

In response to Gino's comment:

>I was also surprised to see such fragile instruments out there in the
>"wicked cold" playing in tune. Frankly, I don't blame them one bit for
>prerecording. Those instruments weren't designed for playing out in the
>elements at that temperature


As I seem to remember, it was pretty f#$%ing cold when those instruments were made...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/01/0107_040107_violin.html

and this guy looks pretty F#$%ing cold too!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/de/20061025002220!Washington_Crossing_the_Delaware.png

did they gripe about getting to the inauguration, no, they just put the Horses in the f#$%ing canoe and crossed the Delaware...and now you know the rest of the story...


lettuce

?



________________________________
From: "Robair, Gino" <Gino.Robair at penton.com>
To: New Music <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:19:32 PM
Subject: [NewMusic] The Dough Must Go On

I was also surprised to see such fragile instruments out there in the
"wicked cold" playing in tune. Frankly, I don't blame them one bit for
prerecording. Those instruments weren't designed for playing out in the
elements at that temperature, nor are those superstars used to playing in
it. Unlike the military brass groups who, I'm sure, have have spent their
time playing outside.

More importantly, the SF Girls Chorus (and those scruffy boys next to them)
certainly didn't phone it in! They really made music.

So, just as we don't expect to see real dinosaurs in a Hollywood film, why
should we expect top concert artists to risk sounding like weak high-school
players just to prove they can play in near-freezing weather? I mean, c'mon:
most of the artists singing on records today aren't really hitting those
pitches accurately: Auto-Tune and Melodyne are....

_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From bradysharp at gmail.com  Fri Jan 23 16:27:53 2009
From: bradysharp at gmail.com (Brady Sharp)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:27:53 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] New product - ambient sequencer AS-606
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901231404m356108cche221605af9b4faa0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c70e517b0901231404m356108cche221605af9b4faa0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a7177e350901231627n2e8140ccj11fb5cc0f751fcdd@mail.gmail.com>

Aw man.., I used to have one of those Casio VL-Tones!  Thanks for the
memories...

Best use of the brick would be to slow the tempo down as much as possible,
record into the step sequencer, speed the tempo up as fast as possible, then
put the brick on the AutoPlay button.

I wonder if the brick works while it's in Calculator Mode as well?

:^)

Brady

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Fri Jan 23 18:03:16 2009
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:03:16 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
Message-ID: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

Ron wrote:
<<and this guy looks pretty F#$%ing cold too!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/de/20061025002220!Wa
shington_Crossing_the_Delaware.png >>

Damn. I can't quite see ol' George's Stradivarius in that painting. Help
point it out, will ya?

But hey, if I had a string instrument worth $1 million, even if built during
an Italian ice age, I'd probably leave it at home if the 21st Century
venue's weather conditions were uncertain. But then again, I've hammered
nails into snare drums, so what do I know.....


From djll at sonic.net  Fri Jan 23 21:31:05 2009
From: djll at sonic.net (Tom Dill)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:31:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Dough Must Go On
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1232773204.10269.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.1.1232773204.10269.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <250114A9-0636-4FA5-BABD-0395522BD50B@sonic.net>

The fact that Justice Roberts effed-up the swearing-in proves that it,  
at least, was a real moment. The real is situated in the imperfect.

Then, Obama improvised and helped the white brother out of his own  
dookie-dough.

td

On Jan 23, 2009, at 9:00 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:

> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:19:32 -0600
> From: "Robair, Gino" <Gino.Robair at penton.com>
> Subject: [NewMusic] The Dough Must Go On
> To: New Music <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Message-ID: <C59F7464.1C52C%Gino.Robair at penton.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I was also surprised to see such fragile instruments out there in the
> "wicked cold" playing in tune. Frankly, I don't blame them one bit for
> prerecording. Those instruments weren't designed for playing out in  
> the
> elements at that temperature, nor are those superstars used to  
> playing in
> it. Unlike the military brass groups who, I'm sure, have have spent  
> their
> time playing outside.
>
> More importantly, the SF Girls Chorus (and those scruffy boys next  
> to them)
> certainly didn't phone it in! They really made music.
>
> So, just as we don't expect to see real dinosaurs in a Hollywood  
> film, why
> should we expect top concert artists to risk sounding like weak high- 
> school
> players just to prove they can play in near-freezing weather? I  
> mean, c'mon:
> most of the artists singing on records today aren't really hitting  
> those
> pitches accurately: Auto-Tune and Melodyne are....


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jan 23 22:07:44 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:07:44 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
In-Reply-To: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
Message-ID: <B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>

Well, I don't really question not bringing one's Guarneri out in  
freezing temperatures.

Rather what is fascinating is; seeing as how predictably cold the  
whole thing was going to be, that it was so important to have that  
kind of event that the physically impossible of it's actuality was  
unimportant.   Every aspect of it, the original material, the history  
of the melody, the lyrics, the "composer," the instrumentation, the  
players. . .  It is a huge statement about power and populism, high- 
brow and low-brow. To layer onto that the fact of it being an  
imitative event, a "miming" or "unreality" . . . says a lot about  
contemporary culture. . .


On Jan 23, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Robair, Gino wrote:

> Ron wrote:
> <<and this guy looks pretty F#$%ing cold too!
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/de/20061025002220!Wa
> shington_Crossing_the_Delaware.png >>
>
> Damn. I can't quite see ol' George's Stradivarius in that painting.  
> Help
> point it out, will ya?
>
> But hey, if I had a string instrument worth $1 million, even if  
> built during
> an Italian ice age, I'd probably leave it at home if the 21st Century
> venue's weather conditions were uncertain. But then again, I've  
> hammered
> nails into snare drums, so what do I know.....
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 24 10:15:31 2009
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:15:31 +0000
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
In-Reply-To: <B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com><B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I agree with Matthew about the message of having this work performed in a prominent place in the program.

The "We Are One" program on Sunday was all popular music drawn mostly from soul, r&b and rock.  Obama and family where on the stage the whole time which was the steps of the Lincoln memorial.  It ended with Pete Seeger singing "This Land is Your Land" with a gospel choir and Bruce Springsten which floored me.  A nod to the progressive left that was unthinkable for decades.

They have the media side down, from all the youtube songs to the new website, to the bloggers and spin doctors. They are weaving their unity message in the public sphere with adroitness.

I rewatched this last night and it looks like they are really playing the instruments. They were playing the work along with the recording so the people next to them heard them live along with the canned version.  

Rova did the same thing for a BBC 4 program on quartets a few years ago.  We stood on chiars on the top of Union st and Montgomery.  They didn't want microphones in the shot.




Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>

Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:07:44 
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group<newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on


Well, I don't really question not bringing one's Guarneri out in  
freezing temperatures.

Rather what is fascinating is; seeing as how predictably cold the  
whole thing was going to be, that it was so important to have that  
kind of event that the physically impossible of it's actuality was  
unimportant.   Every aspect of it, the original material, the history  
of the melody, the lyrics, the "composer," the instrumentation, the  
players. . .  It is a huge statement about power and populism, high- 
brow and low-brow. To layer onto that the fact of it being an  
imitative event, a "miming" or "unreality" . . . says a lot about  
contemporary culture. . .


On Jan 23, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Robair, Gino wrote:

> Ron wrote:
> <<and this guy looks pretty F#$%ing cold too!
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/de/20061025002220!Wa
> shington_Crossing_the_Delaware.png >>
>
> Damn. I can't quite see ol' George's Stradivarius in that painting.  
> Help
> point it out, will ya?
>
> But hey, if I had a string instrument worth $1 million, even if  
> built during
> an Italian ice age, I'd probably leave it at home if the 21st Century
> venue's weather conditions were uncertain. But then again, I've  
> hammered
> nails into snare drums, so what do I know.....
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart




_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From mistermeridies at gmail.com  Sat Jan 24 10:56:35 2009
From: mistermeridies at gmail.com (Mr. Meridies)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:56:35 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
In-Reply-To: <1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
	<B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <5d9bc59d0901241056r7b6f1efcqe68303fe0119098@mail.gmail.com>

There was a very frank discussion of the whole thing on ATC last night
with Yo-yo Ma. Apparently they were playing along but with soap
instead of rosin. The keys on the piano were detached from the
hammers. No discussion about the clarinet.

On 1/24/09, Jon Raskin <jon_raskin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I agree with Matthew about the message of having this work performed in a
> prominent place in the program.
>
> The "We Are One" program on Sunday was all popular music drawn mostly from
> soul, r&b and rock.  Obama and family where on the stage the whole time
> which was the steps of the Lincoln memorial.  It ended with Pete Seeger
> singing "This Land is Your Land" with a gospel choir and Bruce Springsten
> which floored me.  A nod to the progressive left that was unthinkable for
> decades.
>
> They have the media side down, from all the youtube songs to the new
> website, to the bloggers and spin doctors. They are weaving their unity
> message in the public sphere with adroitness.
>
> I rewatched this last night and it looks like they are really playing the
> instruments. They were playing the work along with the recording so the
> people next to them heard them live along with the canned version.
>
> Rova did the same thing for a BBC 4 program on quartets a few years ago.  We
> stood on chiars on the top of Union st and Montgomery.  They didn't want
> microphones in the shot.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
>
> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:07:44
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group<newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
>
>
> Well, I don't really question not bringing one's Guarneri out in
> freezing temperatures.
>
> Rather what is fascinating is; seeing as how predictably cold the
> whole thing was going to be, that it was so important to have that
> kind of event that the physically impossible of it's actuality was
> unimportant.   Every aspect of it, the original material, the history
> of the melody, the lyrics, the "composer," the instrumentation, the
> players. . .  It is a huge statement about power and populism, high-
> brow and low-brow. To layer onto that the fact of it being an
> imitative event, a "miming" or "unreality" . . . says a lot about
> contemporary culture. . .
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Robair, Gino wrote:
>
>> Ron wrote:
>> <<and this guy looks pretty F#$%ing cold too!
>>
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/de/20061025002220!Wa
>> shington_Crossing_the_Delaware.png >>
>>
>> Damn. I can't quite see ol' George's Stradivarius in that painting.
>> Help
>> point it out, will ya?
>>
>> But hey, if I had a string instrument worth $1 million, even if
>> built during
>> an Italian ice age, I'd probably leave it at home if the 21st Century
>> venue's weather conditions were uncertain. But then again, I've
>> hammered
>> nails into snare drums, so what do I know.....
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 24 11:17:24 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:17:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
	<B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<5d9bc59d0901241056r7b6f1efcqe68303fe0119098@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <444222.40695.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>Apparently they were playing along but with soap
instead of rosin.

Hunh??? were they using fake bows??? I mean them things is Expensive...
I liked that the piano player had hobo gloves on...and wondered how many people would even notice if they were all wearing full gloves.


lettuce




________________________________
From: Mr. Meridies <mistermeridies at gmail.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:56:35 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on

There was a very frank discussion of the whole thing on ATC last night
with Yo-yo Ma. Apparently they were playing along but with soap
instead of rosin. The keys on the piano were detached from the
hammers. No discussion about the clarinet.

On 1/24/09, Jon Raskin <jon_raskin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I agree with Matthew about the message of having this work performed in a
> prominent place in the program.
>
> The "We Are One" program on Sunday was all popular music drawn mostly from
> soul, r&b and rock.? Obama and family where on the stage the whole time
> which was the steps of the Lincoln memorial.? It ended with Pete Seeger
> singing "This Land is Your Land" with a gospel choir and Bruce Springsten
> which floored me.? A nod to the progressive left that was unthinkable for
> decades.
>
> They have the media side down, from all the youtube songs to the new
> website, to the bloggers and spin doctors. They are weaving their unity
> message in the public sphere with adroitness.
>
> I rewatched this last night and it looks like they are really playing the
> instruments. They were playing the work along with the recording so the
> people next to them heard them live along with the canned version.
>
> Rova did the same thing for a BBC 4 program on quartets a few years ago.? We
> stood on chiars on the top of Union st and Montgomery.? They didn't want
> microphones in the shot.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
>
> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:07:44
> To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group<newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
>
>
> Well, I don't really question not bringing one's Guarneri out in
> freezing temperatures.
>
> Rather what is fascinating is; seeing as how predictably cold the
> whole thing was going to be, that it was so important to have that
> kind of event that the physically impossible of it's actuality was
> unimportant.? Every aspect of it, the original material, the history
> of the melody, the lyrics, the "composer," the instrumentation, the
> players. . .? It is a huge statement about power and populism, high-
> brow and low-brow. To layer onto that the fact of it being an
> imitative event, a "miming" or "unreality" . . . says a lot about
> contemporary culture. . .
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Robair, Gino wrote:
>
>> Ron wrote:
>> <<and this guy looks pretty F#$%ing cold too!
>>
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/de/20061025002220!Wa
>> shington_Crossing_the_Delaware.png >>
>>
>> Damn. I can't quite see ol' George's Stradivarius in that painting.
>> Help
>> point it out, will ya?
>>
>> But hey, if I had a string instrument worth $1 million, even if
>> built during
>> an Italian ice age, I'd probably leave it at home if the 21st Century
>> venue's weather conditions were uncertain. But then again, I've
>> hammered
>> nails into snare drums, so what do I know.....
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From michaelz at zoka.com  Sat Jan 24 11:59:32 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:59:32 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
In-Reply-To: <1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557
	934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com><B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2E
	B71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557
	934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <p06240857c5a11ecc1536@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/24/09, Jon Raskin wrote:

>The "We Are One" program on Sunday was all popular music drawn 
>mostly from soul, r&b and rock.  Obama and family where on the stage 
>the whole time which was the steps of the Lincoln memorial.  It 
>ended with Pete Seeger singing "This Land is Your Land" with a 
>gospel choir and Bruce Springsten which floored me.  A nod to the 
>progressive left that was unthinkable for decades.

They even sang the final three verses (per Pete Seeger's request), 
which you don't hear very often:

>     There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;
>     Sign was painted, it said private property;
>     But on the back side it didn't say nothing;
>     That side was made for you and me.

>     Nobody living can ever stop me,
>     As I go walking that freedom highway;
>     Nobody living can ever make me turn back
>     This land was made for you and me.

>     In the squares of the city, In the shadow of a steeple;
>     By the relief office, I'd seen my people.
>     As they stood hungry, I stood there whistling,
>     This land was made for you and me

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land>

MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From windrag at mac.com  Sat Jan 24 12:33:21 2009
From: windrag at mac.com (Ryk A. Groetchen)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:33:21 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Mushroom performs Pete Townshend's Lifehouse rock
	opera
In-Reply-To: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>
References: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>
Message-ID: <0EF2395F-22B1-4F0F-B06A-192A16F56285@mac.com>

This sounds like fun!

rag

On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:20 AM, PT wrote:

Saturday Feb 21st - Make Out Room (san francisco)
Friday March 6th - Starry Plough (berkeley)

Mushroom plays Pete Townshend's rock opera "Lifehouse" featuring songs  
from
The Who's "Who's Next"

For the past decade, Mushroom's blend of tribal drumming, space rock
guitars, and trippy keyboards has blended together to create psychedelic
jams and mind-expanding sounds. Tonight, Mushroom joins with vocalist  
Patty
Spiglanin (of the Naked Barbies) to present Pete Townshend's 1971 rock  
opera
"Lifehouse" - originally intended to be the follow up to the legendary  
rock
opera "Tommy".  "Lifehouse" was never performed or recorded by The Who  
- but
many of the songs became the cornerstone for The Who's 1971 classic  
album
"Who's Next".  Mushroom will be performing "Who's Next" and "Lifehouse"
songs with an amazingly powerful blend of vocalists, guitarists, crazy
intense drumming and plenty of those futuristic analog synthesizer  
sounds
made famous on songs like "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Riley".

By late 1970 or so, when Pete Townshend and the Who were tired of
performing Tommy - Pete began writing a new "rock opera" called  
Lifehouse -
that was planned to be a double album and a movie. It was science  
fiction in nature
(or least it took place in the future - including something called  
"the grid" - which we now know as the World Wide Web).

Anyway, Pete wrote (and demo'd) nearly a double album's worth of great  
songs
for Lifehouse - but was unable to convince the rest of The Who of the  
exact
nature of what the whole thing was supposed to be about.

Many of the songs were recorded by The Who - but most of it was tossed  
to
the side and the single album became known as "Who's Next" - perhaps the
greatest Who album ever.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


From windrag at mac.com  Sat Jan 24 12:36:38 2009
From: windrag at mac.com (Ryk A. Groetchen)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:36:38 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Mushroom performs Pete Townshend's Lifehouse
	rock	opera
In-Reply-To: <0EF2395F-22B1-4F0F-B06A-192A16F56285@mac.com>
References: <9C29D999CFB5498AA389E4B08DB5EA67@pat>
	<0EF2395F-22B1-4F0F-B06A-192A16F56285@mac.com>
Message-ID: <95C719EF-9558-40B1-9D99-258EECF92D25@mac.com>

generic (improvised) apology

rag

On Jan 24, 2009, at 12:33 PM, Ryk A. Groetchen wrote:

> This sounds like fun!
>
> rag


From td at pixar.com  Sat Jan 24 21:12:02 2009
From: td at pixar.com (Tom Duff)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:12:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
In-Reply-To: <444222.40695.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
	<B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<5d9bc59d0901241056r7b6f1efcqe68303fe0119098@mail.gmail.com>
	<444222.40695.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0901242109040.7601@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Ron Lettuce wrote:

> >Apparently they were playing along but with soap
instead of rosin.

> Hunh??? were they using fake bows??? I mean them things is Expensive...

I'm not following you...  Horsehair is horsehair, regardless of the 
pedigree of the Pernambuco.

-- 
Tom Duff.  From a weep-worthy break-up, to a scooptastic, high-gain
overdrive.

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 24 21:56:07 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:56:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on
References: <C59FB6E4.1C5B3%Gino.Robair@penton.com>
	<B4CB7207-5C65-4689-BAD3-DEBE2EB71EAF@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<1559521309-1232820971-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-965557934-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<5d9bc59d0901241056r7b6f1efcqe68303fe0119098@mail.gmail.com>
	<444222.40695.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0901242109040.7601@marvin.dynamic.pixar.com>
Message-ID: <272187.62260.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

My ignorance...apparently you can get a bow rehaired for about $50...Although I'd imagine that the guys that these guys use are considerably more...


lettuce




________________________________
From: Tom Duff <td at pixar.com>
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:12:02 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] The Cold must go on

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Ron Lettuce wrote:

> >Apparently they were playing along but with soap
instead of rosin.

> Hunh??? were they using fake bows??? I mean them things is Expensive...

I'm not following you...? Horsehair is horsehair, regardless of the 
pedigree of the Pernambuco.

-- 
Tom Duff.? From a weep-worthy break-up, to a scooptastic, high-gain
overdrive.
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Sun Jan 25 15:45:21 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:45:21 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Call for Participants - Pmocatat Ensemble on March 12th
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901251545m311f2e1ay76f3accb45682fda@mail.gmail.com>

Luggage Store Gallery, March 12, 2009
8pm: TBA
9pm: The Pmocatat (prerecorded music onto cds and tapes and things) Ensemble

Call for Participants
The Pmocatat (prerecorded music onto cds and tapes and things) Ensemble

The rules:

Instead of bringing your instrument, bring recordings of yourself
playing one or more "real" acoustic instruments. The recordings can be
on record, tape, cd, or a portable device like Ipod (no laptops). We
will then improvise the best we can, using only the recordings of our
instruments.

The recordings should be mostly simple musical gestures, recorded with
the intention of being mixed with the sounds of other instruments at
the live show. You should be the performer of the instruments heard,
but it doesn't have to be an instrument you're known for playing.
You're also welcome to bring recordings of more than one instrument,
but within each "song" at the set, you'll be sticking to one
instrument.

At the performance, you're encouraged to play your recorded media with
the level of attention that you'd pay to a "real" instrument. You'll
be using the play and pause buttons, fiddling with the volume,
skipping ahead to certain sections of tracks, scratching the records,
etc. We're NOT going to simply let the recordings play by themselves
or on shuffle play. Regarding effects, they should be minimal - no
samplers, loopers or laptops. I'd say just volume pedal, reverb and
pitch bender allowed, and most frequently going "au natural". There
may be one song where we use distortion.

Once I know who's participating and what instruments you're bringing
recordings of, I'll probably split the show up between different
instrument combinations, such as all acoustic guitars for one song,
woodwinds for another, and sax/bass/drums for another.

Advice: CD and tape will probably be the easiest and most fun
instruments. The better cd players have cue and reverse buttons that
are separate from the "previous/next track" buttons. Multi-speed
cassette recorders can be found at radio shack, best buy and a number
of stores. Ipod sounds easy, but will probably be the least flexible
instrument. (That is, unless iphones have some snazzy track
manipulation software I don't know about.) CD-DJ players and such are
ok.

Before you ask: No, you can't bring recordings on your laptop and play
your laptop. You also can't use the "ipiano" or other fake instruments
on the iphone, unless they're modifying your instrumental source
material. An LP must have your own solo instrumental material. Yes, I
know that probably means nobody will be bringing LP.

To Participate

To sign up, send an email to mattdavignon at gmail.com that states

   * which form your media will be in (cd's, tapes, ipod, lp)
   * which instruments will be featured on your media (acoustic
guitar, piano, drums, etc...)

and bookmark this space to view the running tally of who's
participating and what they're doing.

Current participants: See www.bayimproviser.com/luggagestore#pmocatat

From praemedia at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 26 09:34:37 2009
From: praemedia at yahoo.com (Praemedia)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:34:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Hurray Plonsey!
Message-ID: <303098.1505.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://www.metafilter.com/78587/Pretty-Complex-Stuff


      

From jzitt at metatronpress.com  Mon Jan 26 14:37:02 2009
From: jzitt at metatronpress.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:37:02 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] Hurray Plonsey!
In-Reply-To: <303098.1505.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <303098.1505.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cf60725f0901261437n6362360cp959508eaab5015dd@mail.gmail.com>

And here's a longer article from the Cleveland Jewish News: <a
href="http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2009/01/23/news/local/doc49788f8cf1bd3873161104.txt">Harvey
Pekar does opera</a>

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.metafilter.com/78587/Pretty-Complex-Stuff
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From michaelz at zoka.com  Tue Jan 27 10:54:38 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:54:38 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] A drummer born every minute?
Message-ID: <p06240873c5a508b6e5ba@[192.168.0.2]>

>Baby Got Beat: Music May Be Inborn

<http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/01/babybeats.html>


From djll at sonic.net  Tue Jan 27 18:30:26 2009
From: djll at sonic.net (Tom Dill)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:30:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] apropos of nothing
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1233032404.8781.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1233032404.8781.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <9BC544B9-FD8C-471A-93FD-EBBB957C75DF@sonic.net>

I just thought this story was funny as hell. And I needed a laugh.

This is Jimmy Smith, talking about Babs Gonzales.


" Yeah, but damn, man, he was a nut. I met him in 1957. We were in the  
studio at 70 Broadway with [Blue Note founders] Alfred Lion and  
Francis Wolff. I had Eddie McFadden on guitar and Donald Bailey on  
drums. And, you know Babs, he lets everybody know when he's making his  
grand entrance. He used to wear a cape. He was like Batman and shit.  
Ask anybody about Babs Gonzalez. He wore a cape and all that kind of  
shit. And he thought he was gonna be my manager. He was telling people  
he had discovered me but I was discovered already. Blue Note had came  
down to Philadelphia and they heard me play there. Babs said he  
brought them down, you know, like he's my manager. So I had to deck  
this motherfucker, man. Did you know about his red pepper he'd throw  
in your eyes? Oh shit, he'd keep that in his lapel pocket. He wouldn't  
fight. He couldn't fight. He'd just throw pepper in your eyes, then  
he'd whup yo' ass. So this man...he say, "I'm your manager,  
motherfucker..." and he put that forceful voice shit on. And I say,  
"Oh, no you not.' And you know, I been in the Golden Gloves since I  
been seven years old. In Philadelphia you got to be able to pug. You  
don't pug, you get your ass kicked too much. So I pugged my ass over.  
I was knockin' suckers out that were damn near 195 pounds, when I was  
in the Golden Gloves, you know what I mean? I decked them suckers,  
man. And when I hit Babs, he laid out so pretty like he was going to a  
funeral or something. I hit that motherfucker so hard. See, I forgot  
'cause I lost my temper. He went out so nice, laid on the floor and  
Alfred Lion is running around screaming, "Oh my god, Jimmy's killed  
the man!" And all this shit. Frank Wolff be coming around with his  
camera and everything. It was chaos in that fucking studio."

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Tue Jan 27 19:41:15 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:41:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] apropos of nothing
In-Reply-To: <9BC544B9-FD8C-471A-93FD-EBBB957C75DF@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <838133.29981.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

sounds like jimmy all right!

i had the great honor to work with mr. smith on a few gigs in LA back in the late 80's, early 90's. what a maniac. sweet, unpredictable, a complete bad a**, and the man enjoyed a drink....or two. i was completely hanging on for dear life on the first gig - a few tunes were so fast...i don't how he could drink and play that fast. it was terrifying.

that's a nice one, tom, thanks for sending.
pg


--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Tom Dill <djll at sonic.net> wrote:

> From: Tom Dill <djll at sonic.net>
> Subject: [NewMusic] apropos of nothing
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 6:30 PM
> I just thought this story was funny as hell. And I needed a
> laugh.
> 
> This is Jimmy Smith, talking about Babs Gonzales.
> 
> 
> " Yeah, but damn, man, he was a nut. I met him in
> 1957. We were in the  
> studio at 70 Broadway with [Blue Note founders] Alfred Lion
> and  
> Francis Wolff. I had Eddie McFadden on guitar and Donald
> Bailey on  
> drums. And, you know Babs, he lets everybody know when
> he's making his  
> grand entrance. He used to wear a cape. He was like Batman
> and shit.  
> Ask anybody about Babs Gonzalez. He wore a cape and all
> that kind of  
> shit. And he thought he was gonna be my manager. He was
> telling people  
> he had discovered me but I was discovered already. Blue
> Note had came  
> down to Philadelphia and they heard me play there. Babs
> said he  
> brought them down, you know, like he's my manager. So I
> had to deck  
> this motherfucker, man. Did you know about his red pepper
> he'd throw  
> in your eyes? Oh shit, he'd keep that in his lapel
> pocket. He wouldn't  
> fight. He couldn't fight. He'd just throw pepper in
> your eyes, then  
> he'd whup yo' ass. So this man...he say,
> "I'm your manager,  
> motherfucker..." and he put that forceful voice shit
> on. And I say,  
> "Oh, no you not.' And you know, I been in the
> Golden Gloves since I  
> been seven years old. In Philadelphia you got to be able to
> pug. You  
> don't pug, you get your ass kicked too much. So I
> pugged my ass over.  
> I was knockin' suckers out that were damn near 195
> pounds, when I was  
> in the Golden Gloves, you know what I mean? I decked them
> suckers,  
> man. And when I hit Babs, he laid out so pretty like he was
> going to a  
> funeral or something. I hit that motherfucker so hard. See,
> I forgot  
> 'cause I lost my temper. He went out so nice, laid on
> the floor and  
> Alfred Lion is running around screaming, "Oh my god,
> Jimmy's killed  
> the man!" And all this shit. Frank Wolff be coming
> around with his  
> camera and everything. It was chaos in that fucking
> studio."
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 27 20:29:00 2009
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:29:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] Free CD and Record Shelving - Pick it Up
Message-ID: <548654.53458.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I'm giving away these items:

2 CD shelves 79" tall, 8" wide
2 Record shelves 75" tall, 14" wide (can also be laid flat for a long, short book case)

FREE!  Just pick them up.

I also have a brand new linksys wireless router (no built in modem).  Also FREE!

Contact me off list if interested.

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/jacoblindsay


      

From letucepry at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 28 10:06:37 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:06:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] President Yo-Yo Ma and Fiddling with your Balzac....
References: <303098.1505.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<cf60725f0901261437n6362360cp959508eaab5015dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65158.30594.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

apparently? a hoax...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7853564.stm



lettuce

From aldentel at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 28 10:40:35 2009
From: aldentel at sbcglobal.net (A.L. Dentel)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:40:35 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Free CD and Record Shelving - Pick it Up
In-Reply-To: <548654.53458.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <548654.53458.qm@web58008.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4980A6A3.6050006@sbcglobal.net>

Still got the CD shelves?

Thanks!
Ann

Jacob Lindsay wrote:
> I'm giving away these items:
>
> 2 CD shelves 79" tall, 8" wide
> 2 Record shelves 75" tall, 14" wide (can also be laid flat for a long, short book case)
>
> FREE!  Just pick them up.
>
> I also have a brand new linksys wireless router (no built in modem).  Also FREE!
>
> Contact me off list if interested.
>
> Jacob Lindsay
> http://www.bayimproviser.com/jacoblindsay
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   

From tim at perkis.com  Wed Jan 28 16:02:21 2009
From: tim at perkis.com (tim perkis)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:02:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] apropos of nothing
In-Reply-To: <838133.29981.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <838133.29981.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3176.74.93.5.186.1233187341.squirrel@webmail.perkis.com>

I saw him at Yoshi's a few years ago and it wasn't a good night. He was
very loaded, everyone else in the band took a lot of long solos, and his
idea of humorous between song patter -- seeing it was a japanese
restaurant and all -- was telling racist jokes in what was supposed to be
a japanese accent.




> sounds like jimmy all right!
>
> i had the great honor to work with mr. smith on a few gigs in LA back in
> the late 80's, early 90's. what a maniac. sweet, unpredictable, a complete
> bad a**, and the man enjoyed a drink....or two. i was completely hanging
> on for dear life on the first gig - a few tunes were so fast...i don't how
> he could drink and play that fast. it was terrifying.
>
> that's a nice one, tom, thanks for sending.
> pg
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Tom Dill <djll at sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Tom Dill <djll at sonic.net>
>> Subject: [NewMusic] apropos of nothing
>> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
>> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 6:30 PM
>> I just thought this story was funny as hell. And I needed a
>> laugh.
>>
>> This is Jimmy Smith, talking about Babs Gonzales.
>>
>>
>> " Yeah, but damn, man, he was a nut. I met him in
>> 1957. We were in the
>> studio at 70 Broadway with [Blue Note founders] Alfred Lion
>> and
>> Francis Wolff. I had Eddie McFadden on guitar and Donald
>> Bailey on
>> drums. And, you know Babs, he lets everybody know when
>> he's making his
>> grand entrance. He used to wear a cape. He was like Batman
>> and shit.
>> Ask anybody about Babs Gonzalez. He wore a cape and all
>> that kind of
>> shit. And he thought he was gonna be my manager. He was
>> telling people
>> he had discovered me but I was discovered already. Blue
>> Note had came
>> down to Philadelphia and they heard me play there. Babs
>> said he
>> brought them down, you know, like he's my manager. So I
>> had to deck
>> this motherfucker, man. Did you know about his red pepper
>> he'd throw
>> in your eyes? Oh shit, he'd keep that in his lapel
>> pocket. He wouldn't
>> fight. He couldn't fight. He'd just throw pepper in
>> your eyes, then
>> he'd whup yo' ass. So this man...he say,
>> "I'm your manager,
>> motherfucker..." and he put that forceful voice shit
>> on. And I say,
>> "Oh, no you not.' And you know, I been in the
>> Golden Gloves since I
>> been seven years old. In Philadelphia you got to be able to
>> pug. You
>> don't pug, you get your ass kicked too much. So I
>> pugged my ass over.
>> I was knockin' suckers out that were damn near 195
>> pounds, when I was
>> in the Golden Gloves, you know what I mean? I decked them
>> suckers,
>> man. And when I hit Babs, he laid out so pretty like he was
>> going to a
>> funeral or something. I hit that motherfucker so hard. See,
>> I forgot
>> 'cause I lost my temper. He went out so nice, laid on
>> the floor and
>> Alfred Lion is running around screaming, "Oh my god,
>> Jimmy's killed
>> the man!" And all this shit. Frank Wolff be coming
>> around with his
>> camera and everything. It was chaos in that fucking
>> studio."
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



From slusser at pixar.com  Wed Jan 28 16:58:19 2009
From: slusser at pixar.com (David Slusser)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:58:19 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] apropos of nothing
In-Reply-To: <3176.74.93.5.186.1233187341.squirrel@webmail.perkis.com>
References: <838133.29981.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<3176.74.93.5.186.1233187341.squirrel@webmail.perkis.com>
Message-ID: <60A4E72E-71E4-481D-82CB-CAD7EF739950@pixar.com>

On Jan 28, 2009, at 4:02 PM, tim perkis wrote:

> I saw him at Yoshi's a few years ago and it wasn't a good night. He  
> was
> very loaded, everyone else in the band took a lot of long solos,  
> and his
> idea of humorous between song patter -- seeing it was a japanese
> restaurant and all -- was telling racist jokes in what was supposed  
> to be
> a japanese accent.
>
>> sounds like jimmy all right!

Sounds like Jimmy, alright.

Sorry, cheap shot.  Much like Freddie Hubbard's rap on Koreans, we get
to see some unfortunate lapses from tipping road weary superstars.
Race being very much just under the surface in jazz, it's not surprising
to see it employed in the discourse of the uninhibited.  I enjoyed the
story Jimmy told in Tom's post because it was so much like his playing;
all full of spunky swagger and idiom.

So now that we have an African-American President, will it be ok for
white people to play jazz?  Not a serious question, but one to watch
(Crouch, Marsalis).  To me, jazz is defined by the player; by how much
they bring of their real selves into it.  That would be impossible to
quantify, but somehow, I think we can pickup on sincerity...like a
bullshit detector.

From ingalls at mills.edu  Wed Jan 28 21:34:41 2009
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:34:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>


http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482

AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???

From highhorse at mhorse.com  Wed Jan 28 21:47:18 2009
From: highhorse at mhorse.com (Daryl Shawn)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:47:18 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>

"Are they musicians? They say, 'Sort of.'". He must have talked to 
everyone - and they all said the same thing!

And Gyorgy Ligeti is a "superstar" in "this world". (Especially because 
he no longer lives in ours...but is "performing" on Friday).

There oughta be a license to practice journalism...

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com


> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
>
> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 21:58:22 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:58:22 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
	<498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901282158k6c02187cp1541e9168fa10794@mail.gmail.com>

holy shit, that is the snarkiest think i have ever read.

k

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse at mhorse.com> wrote:

> "Are they musicians? They say, 'Sort of.'". He must have talked to
> everyone - and they all said the same thing!
>
> And Gyorgy Ligeti is a "superstar" in "this world". (Especially because
> he no longer lives in ours...but is "performing" on Friday).
>
> There oughta be a license to practice journalism...
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
>
>
> > http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
> >
> > AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From jzitt at metatronpress.com  Wed Jan 28 22:11:03 2009
From: jzitt at metatronpress.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:11:03 -0500
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
	<498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
Message-ID: <cf60725f0901282211y11de537dt183fa9f349d3950d@mail.gmail.com>

"That's not a journalists' license. You've taken a poetic license and
written 'journalist' on it with a crayon!"

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse at mhorse.com> wrote:
> "Are they musicians? They say, 'Sort of.'". He must have talked to
> everyone - and they all said the same thing!
>
> And Gyorgy Ligeti is a "superstar" in "this world". (Especially because
> he no longer lives in ours...but is "performing" on Friday).
>
> There oughta be a license to practice journalism...
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
>
>
>> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
>>
>> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jan 28 22:45:12 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:45:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <42647.42577.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

how can it be the "worst writeup" if this guy somehow manages to get ligeti to come back from the dead???

or is that you (ingalls) that managed that. well done!!!

shit, that's worth the price of admission right there.

i'll be in LA this weekend with perkis and philips...i'm really sorry i'm going to miss the festival. i wish you all well (you crafty participants!).

much love,
pg


--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Matt Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu> wrote:

> From: Matt Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
> Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: "newmusic at mills.edu" <newmusic at mills.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 9:34 PM
> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
> 
> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for
> hours..) ???
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 22:47:35 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:47:35 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <cf60725f0901282211y11de537dt183fa9f349d3950d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
	<498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
	<cf60725f0901282211y11de537dt183fa9f349d3950d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>

Eh, all said, sounds like your typical writeup from your average
layman journalist - most likely fresh out of an english degree and
high on Hunter S. Thompson-twinged delusions of grandeur - with
aspirations of one day reviewing a Mountain Goat's concert at the
Independent or something... Not the best review on this planet, but
given the scenario that someone was most likely asked to write 200
words last minute, so it goes - not everything has to be Pulitzer
material.

But hey, so ya didn't get reviewed by someone who truly "got it" in
the idealistic sense of the word - big fucking deal - we chose to be
part of a small niche of artistic outsiders and misfits exploring the
proverbial outer rims of human experience. Metaphors aside, it would
be foolish to think that people are always going to say nice things
about our endeavors - especially in a time when your typical citizen
is generally viewed as too economically strapped to buy a converter
box for their precious tv, let alone splurge for the opulence of three
days of diffusion-addled playback. In that light, I think that snark
and grammar aside, our author has tapped a fairly realistic vein ala
public reception to the festival. While we might not perceive our
craft as an elitist whim of overeducated hogwash, I'd say a good
portion of the public probably, possibly, maybe just might. But then
again, to their credit, a good portion of the public might also say
the same thing about the aforementioned Mountain Goats... food for
thought and all that. Feel free to glance over and ignore it as usual.

Though I wonder - was the writeup bad in the sense of journalistic
integrity? Or was it because they said mean things and threatened to
beat us up on the playground after school...


On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Joseph Zitt <jzitt at metatronpress.com> wrote:
> "That's not a journalists' license. You've taken a poetic license and
> written 'journalist' on it with a crayon!"
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse at mhorse.com> wrote:
>> "Are they musicians? They say, 'Sort of.'". He must have talked to
>> everyone - and they all said the same thing!
>>
>> And Gyorgy Ligeti is a "superstar" in "this world". (Especially because
>> he no longer lives in ours...but is "performing" on Friday).
>>
>> There oughta be a license to practice journalism...
>>
>> Daryl Shawn
>> www.swanwelder.com
>>
>>
>>> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
>>>
>>> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From jfheule at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 23:11:40 2009
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:11:40 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
	<498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
	<cf60725f0901282211y11de537dt183fa9f349d3950d@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860901282311x73293d9ag2d22d3760a5a63a4@mail.gmail.com>

that write up is bad in that half of what is said is wrong or misleading,
and most of the rest is snarky.
and if they want to highlight the event with a write-up, why mock the event
for almost the totality of the copy?

jacob
--
http://www.heule.us
http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/


On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com>wrote:

> Eh, all said, sounds like your typical writeup from your average
> layman journalist - most likely fresh out of an english degree and
> high on Hunter S. Thompson-twinged delusions of grandeur - with
> aspirations of one day reviewing a Mountain Goat's concert at the
> Independent or something... Not the best review on this planet, but
> given the scenario that someone was most likely asked to write 200
> words last minute, so it goes - not everything has to be Pulitzer
> material.
>
> But hey, so ya didn't get reviewed by someone who truly "got it" in
> the idealistic sense of the word - big fucking deal - we chose to be
> part of a small niche of artistic outsiders and misfits exploring the
> proverbial outer rims of human experience. Metaphors aside, it would
> be foolish to think that people are always going to say nice things
> about our endeavors - especially in a time when your typical citizen
> is generally viewed as too economically strapped to buy a converter
> box for their precious tv, let alone splurge for the opulence of three
> days of diffusion-addled playback. In that light, I think that snark
> and grammar aside, our author has tapped a fairly realistic vein ala
> public reception to the festival. While we might not perceive our
> craft as an elitist whim of overeducated hogwash, I'd say a good
> portion of the public probably, possibly, maybe just might. But then
> again, to their credit, a good portion of the public might also say
> the same thing about the aforementioned Mountain Goats... food for
> thought and all that. Feel free to glance over and ignore it as usual.
>
> Though I wonder - was the writeup bad in the sense of journalistic
> integrity? Or was it because they said mean things and threatened to
> beat us up on the playground after school...
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Joseph Zitt <jzitt at metatronpress.com>
> wrote:
> > "That's not a journalists' license. You've taken a poetic license and
> > written 'journalist' on it with a crayon!"
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse at mhorse.com>
> wrote:
> >> "Are they musicians? They say, 'Sort of.'". He must have talked to
> >> everyone - and they all said the same thing!
> >>
> >> And Gyorgy Ligeti is a "superstar" in "this world". (Especially because
> >> he no longer lives in ours...but is "performing" on Friday).
> >>
> >> There oughta be a license to practice journalism...
> >>
> >> Daryl Shawn
> >> www.swanwelder.com
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
> >>>
> >>> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Wed Jan 28 23:12:13 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:12:13 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
	<498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
	<cf60725f0901282211y11de537dt183fa9f349d3950d@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <116F5AB6-0995-4337-AAA1-2D9D2FAFD02F@matthewgoodheart.com>

Isn't it "bad" because it glorifies it's own ignorance?

Of course, to be fair, it's not like there's any information on tape  
music easily accessible on the internets that 20 minutes of googling  
might  help educate you on. . . especially if you're going to publish  
something. . .

On the other hand, I'm glad someone finally had the guts to point out  
that Moe! talks in overeducated jibber-jabber.

mg


On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:47 PM, Travis Johns wrote:

> Though I wonder - was the writeup bad in the sense of journalistic
> integrity? Or was it because they said mean things and threatened to
> beat us up on the playground after school...

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 23:41:58 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:41:58 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <116F5AB6-0995-4337-AAA1-2D9D2FAFD02F@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
	<498142E6.6000407@mhorse.com>
	<cf60725f0901282211y11de537dt183fa9f349d3950d@mail.gmail.com>
	<d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<116F5AB6-0995-4337-AAA1-2D9D2FAFD02F@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901282341r193139a8s321077a5f70f450d@mail.gmail.com>

For a moment, let's collectively remember that this comes from a
newspaper that just ran a 5 page expose on a guy in a pink unitard
with a unicycle and nearly all the up-and-coming events read like bad
college newspaper reviews of Guided By Voices concerts, minus the Tom
Robbins' inspired abundance of colorful, yet mildly inappropriate
metaphors - not just "ours." I guess what I'm trying to say is perhaps
we should all examine the source just a little more closely before we
dig out the torches and pitchforks.

...fair and balanced.

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Matthew Goodheart
<matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote:
> Isn't it "bad" because it glorifies it's own ignorance?
>
> Of course, to be fair, it's not like there's any information on tape
> music easily accessible on the internets that 20 minutes of googling
> might  help educate you on. . . especially if you're going to publish
> something. . .
>
> On the other hand, I'm glad someone finally had the guts to point out
> that Moe! talks in overeducated jibber-jabber.
>
> mg
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:47 PM, Travis Johns wrote:
>
>> Though I wonder - was the writeup bad in the sense of journalistic
>> integrity? Or was it because they said mean things and threatened to
>> beat us up on the playground after school...
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Wed Jan 28 23:45:31 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901282341r193139a8s321077a5f70f450d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <378528.23573.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

come on, it's a miracle anything got mentioned. if you haven't noticed it, culture has been outlawed in the bay area....

pg


--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
> For a moment, let's collectively remember that this
> comes from a
> newspaper that just ran a 5 page expose on a guy in a pink
> unitard
> with a unicycle and nearly all the up-and-coming events
> read like bad
> college newspaper reviews of Guided By Voices concerts,
> minus the Tom
> Robbins' inspired abundance of colorful, yet mildly
> inappropriate
> metaphors - not just "ours." I guess what I'm
> trying to say is perhaps
> we should all examine the source just a little more closely
> before we
> dig out the torches and pitchforks.
> 
> ...fair and balanced.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Matthew Goodheart
> <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote:
> > Isn't it "bad" because it glorifies
> it's own ignorance?
> >
> > Of course, to be fair, it's not like there's
> any information on tape
> > music easily accessible on the internets that 20
> minutes of googling
> > might  help educate you on. . . especially if
> you're going to publish
> > something. . .
> >
> > On the other hand, I'm glad someone finally had
> the guts to point out
> > that Moe! talks in overeducated jibber-jabber.
> >
> > mg
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:47 PM, Travis Johns wrote:
> >
> >> Though I wonder - was the writeup bad in the sense
> of journalistic
> >> integrity? Or was it because they said mean things
> and threatened to
> >> beat us up on the playground after school...
> >
> > Matthew Goodheart
> > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> > http://matthewgoodheart.com
> > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 23:48:40 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:48:40 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <49815F58.3050005@gmail.com>

I thought it was funny.

Matt Ingalls wrote:
> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
>
> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 23:48:40 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:48:40 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
References: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA83A@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <49815F58.3050005@gmail.com>

I thought it was funny.

Matt Ingalls wrote:
> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
>
> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 23:54:25 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:54:25 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] by the way,
Message-ID: <498160B1.9020403@gmail.com>

I have recently defected to LA... I know, I know.

Anybody have good suggestions on places to go out here, people to meet? 
write me off-list...

alicia

From ingalls at mills.edu  Thu Jan 29 00:03:46 2009
From: ingalls at mills.edu (Matt Ingalls)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:03:46 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <378528.23573.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <d3165c060901282341r193139a8s321077a5f70f450d@mail.gmail.com>,
	<378528.23573.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F81D56F650769E4587383FDD7DE82629067FA841@EXCHANGE02.mills.edu>

yeah, i tend to agree.  it probably more damage to her reputation than the festival...
( i long ago stopped picking up the sfweakly anyway.. )

but i do love that the article *is* ignorant, but then she criticizes us as overeducated (it's the american way!)    

and i do agree with Travis somewhat -- this is "typical" in that it isn't music criticism -- i'm sure she is used to writing about personal interest and other extramusical hype, and when she got our press release that didn't have flashy text for her to just copy into her article, she went to our web site and saw our slightly-tongue-in-cheek text that attempts to mimic the "tradition" of 20th century artistic manifesti and she must have found it offensive.

but she did email me asking for press photos, i just don't know why she didn't ask me to send her some descriptive text that their typical reader would understand...

-m
 
________________________________________
From: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu [newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu] On Behalf Of Phillip Greenlief [pgsaxo at pacbell.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:45 PM
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen

come on, it's a miracle anything got mentioned. if you haven't noticed it, culture has been outlawed in the bay area....

pg


--- On Wed, 1/28/09, Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
> For a moment, let's collectively remember that this
> comes from a
> newspaper that just ran a 5 page expose on a guy in a pink
> unitard
> with a unicycle and nearly all the up-and-coming events
> read like bad
> college newspaper reviews of Guided By Voices concerts,
> minus the Tom
> Robbins' inspired abundance of colorful, yet mildly
> inappropriate
> metaphors - not just "ours." I guess what I'm
> trying to say is perhaps
> we should all examine the source just a little more closely
> before we
> dig out the torches and pitchforks.
>
> ...fair and balanced.
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Matthew Goodheart
> <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote:
> > Isn't it "bad" because it glorifies
> it's own ignorance?
> >
> > Of course, to be fair, it's not like there's
> any information on tape
> > music easily accessible on the internets that 20
> minutes of googling
> > might  help educate you on. . . especially if
> you're going to publish
> > something. . .
> >
> > On the other hand, I'm glad someone finally had
> the guts to point out
> > that Moe! talks in overeducated jibber-jabber.
> >
> > mg
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:47 PM, Travis Johns wrote:
> >
> >> Though I wonder - was the writeup bad in the sense
> of journalistic
> >> integrity? Or was it because they said mean things
> and threatened to
> >> beat us up on the playground after school...
> >
> > Matthew Goodheart
> > composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> > matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> > http://matthewgoodheart.com
> > http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 00:11:55 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:11:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>

on 1/28/09 10:47 PM, Travis Johns at electric.tokyo at gmail.com wrote:

> Eh, all said, sounds like your typical writeup from your average
> layman journalist - most likely fresh out of an english degree and
> high on ...

Actually she's the assistant calendar editor, and has been writing for the
SF Weekly for at least a few years. I went to the SF Weekly "about" section
to confirm this, and the first sentence is:  "SF Weekly is San Francisco's
smartest publication." ...oops. They also employ as a freelancer, brilliant
jazz critic Phil "caveman at a cocktail party" Freeman, who is at least
capable of looking up unfamiliar musical terms on wikipedia.

If Ms. Hiya were as brilliant as Phil Freeman, she might have ended up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_music and discovered a prominent link to
the SF Tape Music Center ...but maybe the internet and copy/paste functions
weren't working for her when she was writing her preview.

> 
> But hey, so ya didn't get reviewed by someone who truly "got it" in
> the idealistic sense of the word

-- It's not a review, it's a preview blurb. There's a big difference. Most
preview blurbs cut and paste from press releases, and include a sentence or
two of description with the goal of making the event appealing. Why publish
a preview blurb that says jackshit about the event and conveys condescencion
and distate for the event? Why not preview something else?

 - big fucking deal - we chose to be
> part of a small niche of artistic outsiders and misfits exploring the
> proverbial outer rims of human experience.

-- The last SL Morse show I did, back in October, I got a preview blurb in
the Bay Guardian that was half inaccuracies, and it was pretty clear the
writer didn't completely get it, but it was positive, though the writing was
a little too flowery and kinda unclear. But, the writer was a nice kid who
came to the show and appreciated it and I was appreciative that he was into
it and wrote about it. As I see it, that is par for course. This SF Weekly
piece is pretty beyond the pale, and I've been paying attention to this
stuff for over a decade.

 Metaphors aside, it would
> be foolish to think that people are always going to say nice things
> about our endeavors -

-- I don't think anyone here is thinking that, least of all Mr. Ingalls
...check the list archives for proof.

In that light, I think that snark
> and grammar aside, our author has tapped a fairly realistic vein ala
> public reception to the festival. While we might not perceive our
> craft as an elitist whim of overeducated hogwash, I'd say a good
> portion of the public probably, possibly, maybe just might.

-- Fair enough, but why bother publishing it? It's actually at odds with the
SF Weekly/New Times m.o. - a former neighbor of mine used to write regularly
for them, and he described it as "This thing that you think is great ...it's
really horrible. Or This thing that you think is horrible ...is actually
good."  It just makes no sense to me whatsoever to publish a show preview
that basically says "I can't describe the event to you, but the people
involved are arrogant douchebags."

 sl



From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 00:54:06 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:54:06 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <6074E087-4F2C-4AB6-B15E-C21E7E7F375D@matthewgoodheart.com>

Excellent, Sarah.

If Hiya was a "nice kid"  who kind of got it wrong, I would be very  
forgiving. But (according to her myspace page) she's 38. . . way old  
enough to know better. . .   Sure I understand "at least we got a  
write up," but on the other hand perpetuating willing ignorance is no  
virtue. This blurb makes her sound like the Sarah Palin of cultural  
critics. . . can't we at least kick and scream as we're dragged into  
Idiocracy?

mg

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 01:00:14 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:00:14 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <6074E087-4F2C-4AB6-B15E-C21E7E7F375D@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <C5A6B01E.2943D%21grand@21grand.org>

I like money. You like money, too?

sl

on 1/29/09 12:54 AM, Matthew Goodheart at matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
wrote:

can't we at least kick and scream as we're dragged into
> Idiocracy?
> 
> mg
> 
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic



From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 01:12:55 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:12:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>

sounds like she went on a bad date with an avant gardist! he must have
bored her to death with all that technical jargon. poor lady.

ww
 
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:34:41 -0800 Matt Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
writes:
> 
>
http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
> 
> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Save $15 on Flowers and Gifts!
Shop now at www.ftd.com/16714
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQAdXncIUiavBQjclu6pcQLxU0PCzY0yZ4DdrCDsDYbeu/

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 01:12:55 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:12:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>

sounds like she went on a bad date with an avant gardist! he must have
bored her to death with all that technical jargon. poor lady.

ww
 
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:34:41 -0800 Matt Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
writes:
> 
>
http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
> 
> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> 
> 
 
____________________________________________________________
Click to find information on international programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw390j14AUWJ7FNLfINu3zjS8Mir7rcQ6m0BFEF83i0DgXt2A/

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 01:14:43 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:14:43 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A6B01E.2943D%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C5A6B01E.2943D%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <3109820E-8148-4FB9-B8B6-BEDB688BB4EE@matthewgoodheart.com>

I like "Hot Naked Chicks and World Report."

mg

On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:00 AM, Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:

> I like money. You like money, too?
>
> sl
>
> on 1/29/09 12:54 AM, Matthew Goodheart at matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> wrote:
>
> can't we at least kick and scream as we're dragged into
>> Idiocracy?
>>
>> mg
>>
>> Matthew Goodheart
>> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
>> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
>> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 01:15:41 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:15:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>

Maybe she was that date George was talking about. . .

On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:12 AM, weasel walter wrote:

> sounds like she went on a bad date with an avant gardist! he must have
> bored her to death with all that technical jargon. poor lady.
>
> ww
>
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:34:41 -0800 Matt Ingalls <ingalls at mills.edu>
> writes:
>>
>>
> http://www.sfweekly.com/events/san-francisco-tape-music-festival-1322482
>>
>> AFAIK no one talked to "Hiya Swanhuyser"  (for hours..) ???
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Click to find information on international programs.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw390j14AUWJ7FNLfINu3zjS8Mir7rcQ6m0BFEF83i0DgXt2A/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From tim at perkis.com  Thu Jan 29 01:36:34 2009
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:36:34 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>
	<85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <498178A2.7040606@perkis.com>

Tape music? You mean like FROM THE TOILET?!?!??

It just doesn' t have the electrolytes that plants crave.



You expect this kind of crap from the Chronicle --at least 
traditionally, it really hasn't been THIS bad lately -- - but to see it 
in an "alternative" weekly is a little woozy-making... and depressing.


From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 03:00:23 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:00:23 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498178A2.7040606@perkis.com>
References: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>
	<85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<498178A2.7040606@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901290300p79476b12x2c7bf81cdf7ddb34@mail.gmail.com>

I've been trying to come up with a magic phrase to put in press
releases, that will make weekly newspapers want to do a positive
article about the show. Right now the best I have is...

"Death Cab for Cutie will be there, or at least girls with ukeleles."

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 03:05:55 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:05:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] by the way,
In-Reply-To: <498160B1.9020403@gmail.com>
References: <498160B1.9020403@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901290305t707778e6h6a4d48b35ee2df75@mail.gmail.com>

Why not check out Hans Fjellestad's ResBox series? Seems like they
have a lot of good shows going on, and a lot of the good musicians I
know down in LA have performed there at some point.
http://www.steveallentheater.com/resbox

Matt

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have recently defected to LA... I know, I know.
>
> Anybody have good suggestions on places to go out here, people to meet?
> write me off-list...
>
> alicia
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From jfheule at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 07:56:55 2009
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:56:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860901290756v72820811i692cc3ed129ea244@mail.gmail.com>

yep, right on, sarah.

dryer/heule/lindsay recently got a really nice preview blurb in the sf bay
guardian. written by an intern younger than myself. it's everything this
tape music fest blurb is not.

Playing off of the title of The Idea of North by Glenn Gould, The Idea of
West is an attempt by the improv trio of Tony Dryer (contrabass), Jacob
Felix Heule (drums), and Jacob Lindsay (clarinet) to translate
psycho-geography through what the recording's liner notes describe as
"controlled improvisation and compositional structures." With the patience
and sustained dissonance of a Morton Feldman composition, and Heule's
rhythm-sabotaging scrapes and bubbles, the album's six compositions are as
meditative as they are avant-leaning. Paired with martial arts
demonstrations - the venue is a martial arts studio - this performance is an
opportunity to give form to what often seems like fiercely amorphous music.
(Bussolini)

http://tinyurl.com/btgotn

jacob
--
http://www.heule.us
http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/

From jfheule at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 08:08:00 2009
From: jfheule at gmail.com (jacob felix heule)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:08:00 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] by the way,
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901290305t707778e6h6a4d48b35ee2df75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <498160B1.9020403@gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901290305t707778e6h6a4d48b35ee2df75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c5cfa860901290808t1abaa236r33ab6b3a6f668073@mail.gmail.com>

Basshaters (Heule/Dryer) will be playing ResBox on 3/19.
http://www.myspace.com/resboxmusic
and the Wulf on 3/20. http://www.thewulf.org/
That should get you started.
I'll report back.

jacob
--
http://www.heule.us
http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/


On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>wrote:

> Why not check out Hans Fjellestad's ResBox series? Seems like they
> have a lot of good shows going on, and a lot of the good musicians I
> know down in LA have performed there at some point.
> http://www.steveallentheater.com/resbox

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 08:56:56 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:56:56 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860901290756v72820811i692cc3ed129ea244@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d3165c060901282247qfc9294as3af5aec5eedd2fc6@mail.gmail.com>
	<C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>
	<9c5cfa860901290756v72820811i692cc3ed129ea244@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901290856t52fe6839r6ae01d2be41d8026@mail.gmail.com>

Curious - since when has age and/or position in an organization
equated to a supposed adeptness of craft? Case in point - look at
Maureen Dowd - you'd think that a Pulitzer and 30+ years in the field
would be a plus for her, but somehow a good chunk of her columns read
like some sort of pcp-addled fairytale read by a henpecked spinster in
a baby's voice... and not in a good way. That said, I think it's a
fair assessment to say that some people can write, others can't -
plain and simple. As a trend, I feel that several "alternative" papers
do gravitate more towards the irreverent, tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic
Generation X'er on the street style of example a as a rule of thumb...
after all, how else would you be able to tell them apart from your
traditional rags or the tabloids? It's just kind of how it goes.

Ala Matt D's suggestion on phrases to get people to come out to
events, what's wrong with "free beer" or "reception to follow?"
There's just something about the knowing that there's a huge slab of
cheese at the end of the non-idiomatic, academic, western rainbow that
makes some events slightly more bearable.

Ok, I'm done - dissection knives out.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 7:56 AM, jacob felix heule <jfheule at gmail.com> wrote:
> yep, right on, sarah.
>
> dryer/heule/lindsay recently got a really nice preview blurb in the sf bay
> guardian. written by an intern younger than myself. it's everything this
> tape music fest blurb is not.
>
> Playing off of the title of The Idea of North by Glenn Gould, The Idea of
> West is an attempt by the improv trio of Tony Dryer (contrabass), Jacob
> Felix Heule (drums), and Jacob Lindsay (clarinet) to translate
> psycho-geography through what the recording's liner notes describe as
> "controlled improvisation and compositional structures." With the patience
> and sustained dissonance of a Morton Feldman composition, and Heule's
> rhythm-sabotaging scrapes and bubbles, the album's six compositions are as
> meditative as they are avant-leaning. Paired with martial arts
> demonstrations - the venue is a martial arts studio - this performance is an
> opportunity to give form to what often seems like fiercely amorphous music.
> (Bussolini)
>
> http://tinyurl.com/btgotn
>
> jacob
> --
> http://www.heule.us
> http://www.myspace.com/jacobfelix
> new album, Idea of West: http://www.heule.us/ideaofwest/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 09:07:40 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <6074E087-4F2C-4AB6-B15E-C21E7E7F375D@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <463545.31278.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

can't we at least kick and scream as we're dragged into  
Idiocracy?

mg


PG:
well, that was kind of my point...we were dragged into idiocracy a long time ago (around 2000, when sun times bought up a lot of the papers around here and changed their preview article policies).

but sure, kick and scream. i'm think i'm getting too old for that. i'm trying harder and harder not to waste my energy.


--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote:

> From: Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 12:54 AM
> Excellent, Sarah.
> 
> If Hiya was a "nice kid"  who kind of got it
> wrong, I would be very  
> forgiving. But (according to her myspace page) she's
> 38. . . way old  
> enough to know better. . .   Sure I understand "at
> least we got a  
> write up," but on the other hand perpetuating willing
> ignorance is no  
> virtue. This blurb makes her sound like the Sarah Palin of
> cultural  
> critics. . . can't we at least kick and scream as
> we're dragged into  
> Idiocracy?
> 
> mg
> 
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 09:11:54 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:11:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] by the way,
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901290305t707778e6h6a4d48b35ee2df75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <768020.87022.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

good suggestion, matt - hans' series is one of the better things happening down there right now. we're also playing at [ open } in long beach, and at alex cline's series in eagle rock. i know matthew had a bad experience there, but i've played there a lot - and apart from the fact i never get paid well when i play there, it's a nice space and people come out to shows there.




--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Matt Davignon <mattdavignon at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] by the way,
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 3:05 AM
> Why not check out Hans Fjellestad's ResBox series? Seems
> like they
> have a lot of good shows going on, and a lot of the good
> musicians I
> know down in LA have performed there at some point.
> http://www.steveallentheater.com/resbox
> 
> Matt
> 
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Alicia Byer
> <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have recently defected to LA... I know, I know.
> >
> > Anybody have good suggestions on places to go out
> here, people to meet?
> > write me off-list...
> >
> > alicia
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan 29 09:18:03 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:18:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <463545.31278.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <463545.31278.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <34CA9DD9-D08F-4E93-8429-38C053CDE47E@balancepointacoustics.com>

Does anybody make tape music hoping a hiptard who works for free  
weekly will like it? Anything that is actually avant garde can expect  
to be met with ignorance and resistance at some point.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 09:20:34 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:20:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901290856t52fe6839r6ae01d2be41d8026@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <376469.62315.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> From: Travis Johns

> Curious - since when has age and/or position in an
> organization
> equated to a supposed adeptness of craft? Case in point -

PG:
age has nothing to do with it - you can be an asshole at any age. i think (matthew's?) point was that at 38, you've been around long enough to know what tape music is...or at least old enough to do the research.

TJ:
That said, I think it's a fair assessment to say that some people can write, others can't - plain and simple. 

PG:
yep.

TJ:
As a trend, I feel that several "alternative" papers do gravitate more towards the irreverent, tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic Generation X'er on the street style of example a as a rule of thumb...

PG:
yep - take away sarcasm and irreverence, and what do young people have left? 

TJ:
> Ala Matt D's suggestion on phrases to get people to come out to
> events, what's wrong with "free beer" or "reception to follow?"
> There's just something about the knowing that there's a huge slab of
> cheese at the end of the non-idiomatic, academic, western
> rainbow that makes some events slightly more bearable.

PG:
i don't know, "girls with ukeleles" works for me. i'm going to start using that exclusively. i've had my fill of cheese.

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 29 09:24:39 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:24:39 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>
	<85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W52D58D4BCE5C51FB3702A0C1C90@phx.gbl>


>> Maybe she was that date George was talking about. . .>>Ahhhhh, Hiya Swanhuyser, I remember her well. That's the one where she ended up tied up on the couch with old bass strings, and I played along to a recording of a Xenakis piece with marimba mallets on her bare ass while reciting Cecil Taylor poetry. Awesome. -George
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?:?more than just e-mail. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 09:25:00 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:25:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <34CA9DD9-D08F-4E93-8429-38C053CDE47E@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <317112.40365.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> From: Damon Smith <damon at balancepointacoustics.com>

> Does anybody make tape music hoping a hiptard who works for
> free weekly will like it? Anything that is actually avant garde
> can expect to be met with ignorance and resistance at some point.


PG:

"at some point"?

when has it not been met by ignorance and resistance?...even in our own community?

sorry folks, i'm turning 50 in a two weeks - i'm preparing by officially taking on the role of salty dog with bad attitude. again, i'm sorry: this may last a while.

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 09:26:37 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:26:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W52D58D4BCE5C51FB3702A0C1C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <291241.92625.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> From: George Cremaschi <gcremaschi at hotmail.com>

> .>>Ahhhhh, Hiya Swanhuyser, I remember her well.
> That's the one where she ended up tied up on the couch
> with old bass strings, and I played along to a recording of
> a Xenakis piece with marimba mallets on her bare ass while
> reciting Cecil Taylor poetry. Awesome. -George


PG:
i saw a video of that on youtube..."awesome" doesn't do it justice.

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 09:31:55 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:31:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <34CA9DD9-D08F-4E93-8429-38C053CDE47E@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <463545.31278.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<34CA9DD9-D08F-4E93-8429-38C053CDE47E@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901290931r610ed4a4h3579649a03b97881@mail.gmail.com>

totally, but this was a preview, not a review. it's supposed to encourage
people to check it out, even -- or maybe especially? --  if the event or
format is new to the writer/general public. this thing basically says,
'don't go to it, it's a bunch of academic bullshit' which makes me think,
'why write it up at all?'

k

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Damon Smith <
damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:

> Does anybody make tape music hoping a hiptard who works for free
> weekly will like it? Anything that is actually avant garde can expect
> to be met with ignorance and resistance at some point.
>
> Damon Smith
>
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> New solo project:
> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 09:34:16 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:34:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0901290931r610ed4a4h3579649a03b97881@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <846659.99859.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:

> totally, but this was a preview, not a review. it's
> supposed to encourage
> people to check it out, even -- or maybe especially? --  if
> the event or
> format is new to the writer/general public. this thing
> basically says,
> 'don't go to it, it's a bunch of academic
> bullshit' which makes me think,
> 'why write it up at all?'
> 
> k

PG:
i keep telling y'all, culture has been outlawed in the bay area. get used to it. or not...

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 09:40:57 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:40:57 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <376469.62315.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <d3165c060901290856t52fe6839r6ae01d2be41d8026@mail.gmail.com>
	<376469.62315.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901290940x1d46f0c3s9ec3c1d85bb2e5fa@mail.gmail.com>

this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RofjMukTTZM

or cheese...

yah, I'll take the cheese please. Btw, this said Uni won best
experimental artist of 2008 by the SF Weekly, just to bring things
back full circle to the initial post. No offense to anyone who knows
her or anything - I mean, she is pretty charming, all said -  it's
just that Ukulele's aren't edible.

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net> wrote:
>> From: Travis Johns
>
>> Curious - since when has age and/or position in an
>> organization
>> equated to a supposed adeptness of craft? Case in point -
>
> PG:
> age has nothing to do with it - you can be an asshole at any age. i think (matthew's?) point was that at 38, you've been around long enough to know what tape music is...or at least old enough to do the research.
>
> TJ:
> That said, I think it's a fair assessment to say that some people can write, others can't - plain and simple.
>
> PG:
> yep.
>
> TJ:
> As a trend, I feel that several "alternative" papers do gravitate more towards the irreverent, tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic Generation X'er on the street style of example a as a rule of thumb...
>
> PG:
> yep - take away sarcasm and irreverence, and what do young people have left?
>
> TJ:
>> Ala Matt D's suggestion on phrases to get people to come out to
>> events, what's wrong with "free beer" or "reception to follow?"
>> There's just something about the knowing that there's a huge slab of
>> cheese at the end of the non-idiomatic, academic, western
>> rainbow that makes some events slightly more bearable.
>
> PG:
> i don't know, "girls with ukeleles" works for me. i'm going to start using that exclusively. i've had my fill of cheese.
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 09:46:44 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:46:44 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <846659.99859.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <ef1ad92c0901290931r610ed4a4h3579649a03b97881@mail.gmail.com>
	<846659.99859.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901290946o43ea5ca2r5f71501cdf198c73@mail.gmail.com>

PG:
i keep telling y'all, culture has been outlawed in the bay area. get used to
it. or not...

that's too much of a generalization for me to wrap my head around. do you
mean the bay area prefers something like a sweaty rowdy Extra Action
Marching Band show to a night at a  John Adams opera? because for the most
part, i do too.

k

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Phillip Greenlief <pgsaxo at pacbell.net>wrote:

> --- On Thu, 1/29/09, kristin miltner <miltnerunit at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > totally, but this was a preview, not a review. it's
> > supposed to encourage
> > people to check it out, even -- or maybe especially? --  if
> > the event or
> > format is new to the writer/general public. this thing
> > basically says,
> > 'don't go to it, it's a bunch of academic
> > bullshit' which makes me think,
> > 'why write it up at all?'
> >
> > k
>
> PG:
> i keep telling y'all, culture has been outlawed in the bay area. get used
> to it. or not...
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan 29 10:01:50 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:01:50 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <ef1ad92c0901290931r610ed4a4h3579649a03b97881@mail.gmail.com>
References: <463545.31278.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<34CA9DD9-D08F-4E93-8429-38C053CDE47E@balancepointacoustics.com>
	<ef1ad92c0901290931r610ed4a4h3579649a03b97881@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6AA04ECE-715F-4CEB-9771-C695DCE198C0@balancepointacoustics.com>

It makes me want to go, and it will keep away idiots who use words  
like "elitist" and "pretentious" to defend themselves from having to  
think.

On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:31 AM, kristin miltner wrote:

> totally, but this was a preview, not a review. it's supposed to  
> encourage
> people to check it out, even -- or maybe especially? --  if the  
> event or
> format is new to the writer/general public. this thing basically says,
> 'don't go to it, it's a bunch of academic bullshit' which makes me  
> think,
> 'why write it up at all?'
>
> k
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Damon Smith <
> damon at balancepointacoustics.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anybody make tape music hoping a hiptard who works for free
>> weekly will like it? Anything that is actually avant garde can expect
>> to be met with ignorance and resistance at some point.
>>
>> Damon Smith
>>
>> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
>> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
>> New solo project:
>> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> kristin miltner
> audio professional
> www.kristinmiltner.net
> www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
> http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 10:09:32 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:09:32 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W52D58D4BCE5C51FB3702A0C1C90@phx.gbl>
References: <20090129.011259.3780.254.weaselw@juno.com>
	<85180D68-E27B-4706-953A-ECB035D2D21B@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<BLU136-W52D58D4BCE5C51FB3702A0C1C90@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6A6CB3DC-5442-493E-987F-A6F95C2B5EEC@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:24 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:

> That's the one where she ended up tied up on the couch with old bass  
> strings, and I played along to a recording of a Xenakis piece with  
> marimba mallets on her bare ass while reciting Cecil Taylor poetry.


Now I want to date you.



Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 10:37:33 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:37:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <6A6CB3DC-5442-493E-987F-A6F95C2B5EEC@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <837331.53200.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Matthew Goodheart <matthew at matthewgoodheart.com> wrote:

> On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:24 AM, George Cremaschi wrote:
> 
> > That's the one where she ended up tied up on the
> couch with old bass  
> > strings, and I played along to a recording of a
> Xenakis piece with  
> > marimba mallets on her bare ass while reciting Cecil
> Taylor poetry.
> 
> 
> Now I want to date you.


PG:
yeah, you do - george gives good mallet.

From michaelz at zoka.com  Thu Jan 29 11:46:31 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:46:31 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <6074E087-4F2C-4AB6-B15E-C21E7E7F375D@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <C5A6A4CB.29432%21grand@21grand.org>
	<6074E087-4F2C-4AB6-B15E-C21E7E7F375D@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <p06240888c5a7b1c182a1@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/29/09, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

>If Hiya was a "nice kid"  who kind of got it wrong, I would be very 
>forgiving. But (according to her myspace page) she's 38. . . way old 
>enough to know better. . .   Sure I understand "at least we got a 
>write up," but on the other hand perpetuating willing ignorance is no 
>virtue. This blurb makes her sound like the Sarah Palin of cultural
>critics. . .

I read it as kind of a tongue-in-cheek piece, meant to be amusing in 
a "SF hipster" way, as others here have since pointed out.

And m@ sez:

>she got our press release that didn't have flashy text for her to 
>just copy into her article, she went to our web site and saw our 
>slightly-tongue-in-cheek text that attempts to mimic the "tradition" 
>of 20th century artistic manifesti and she must have found it 
>offensive.

I think she simply reacted in kind (and not offended, just not comprehending).
So I don't think she meant the preview to be read as a put-down of 
the music or the event, but as a sarcastic take on your "manifesto." 
(And yeah, she was probably too busy or lazy to go beyond this and 
figure it out.)

Perhaps she is a follower of the Aidin Vaziri approach to music 
journalism (unfortunately, this is usually more funny to the writer 
than to most readers).
<http://aidinvaziri.com/>

But I suppose she thought her hipster readers would interprete the 
sarcasm as code for "hey, this is actually a cool, offbeat event that 
you should really check out."

So whatever happened to "Any publicity is good publicity"?

Oh, and speaking of "arrogant douchebags":

<http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-01-07/news/how-douchebag-became-everyone-s-favorite-insult/>

MZ

--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 11:57:22 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:57:22 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <p06240888c5a7b1c182a1@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <C5A74A22.2946D%21grand@21grand.org>

I actually read that article online the week it ran in the paper ...it was
seriously disappointing, and didn't really explain very much. The author
totally omitted its popularity back in the  80s - I think it was the
successor to "poser" at my highschool - and it seemed to follow on the heels
of a slew of television ads for the hygiene products. One of my professors
in the broadcasting department at SF State, (I think he died about 5 years
ago), was actually the guy that got douche ads on TV as a means of making up
lost ad dollars from cigarette advertising after they'd been banned.

Thanks for the reminder of another piece of crappy SF Weekly writing.

sl

on 1/29/09 11:46 AM, Michael Zelner at michaelz at zoka.com wrote:


> 
> Oh, and speaking of "arrogant douchebags":
> 
> <http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-01-07/news/how-douchebag-became-everyone-s-favor
> ite-insult/>
> 
> MZ
> 



From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 12:19:55 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:19:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.122938.3780.268.weaselw@juno.com>

> Playing off of the title of The Idea of North by Glenn Gould, The 
> Idea of West is an attempt by the improv trio of Tony Dryer
(contrabass), 
> Jacob Felix Heule (drums), and Jacob Lindsay (clarinet) to translate
> psycho-geography through what the recording's liner notes describe 
> as "controlled improvisation and compositional structures." With the 
> patience and sustained dissonance of a Morton Feldman composition, and 
> Heule's rhythm-sabotaging scrapes and bubbles, the album's six
compositions 
> are asmeditative as they are avant-leaning. Paired with martial arts
> demonstrations - the venue is a martial arts studio - this 
> performance is an opportunity to give form to what often seems like
fiercely amorphous 
> music.
> (Bussolini)

right now there's a disturbing thrust in our society where the knee-jerk
reaction by many people would be to dismiss a review like this as
"pretentious" (sic) because they are dum dummies and they fear their own
ignorance. (cf.
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/01/recent-faves-from-the-new-bin.html
- a recent example of this relative to something i released.)

a review like this is just intelligent and clear. that's what i'm looking
for. 

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQcA5vVj09Fr9CYyfM6tKB9R07pImiUOzm5M1h9DQ8cCi/

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 12:27:20 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:27:20 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.122938.3780.271.weaselw@juno.com>

what's worse about this is that i've noticed that dumbass critics like
these seem to LOVE the controversy they inspire with their dumbassery.
they think they're just soooooo vital and really shaking things up. the
aforementioned phil freeman is a great example of this mentality. this
kind of feedback just eggs them on.

what's worse is i know for a fact that some writers get bonuses based on
the volume of response they get from their writing - positive OR
negative. what i'm getting at is that in the "journalism" biz it
sometimes actually pays to be a total jackass. 

it doen't take a genius to enter a church and yell "fuck". it's going to
get a response, but that doesn't mean anything meaningful has taken
place. 

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQcCX6jVyDoz1XvnRWgUDNocUXxS0HuHqSymodP0IbLtU/

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 12:28:46 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:28:46 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.122938.3780.272.weaselw@juno.com>

> that's too much of a generalization for me to wrap my head around. 
> do you mean the bay area prefers something like a sweaty rowdy Extra 
> Action Marching Band show to a night at a  John Adams opera? because
for 
> the most part, i do too.

no, that's not what he's saying. i would prefer NEITHER of those options.
that's not an accurate analogy at all.

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQcEHi9vUh5ssMXJWbHPH2d9grVk8UTXR8F4yl62CeX4y/

From miltnerunit at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 12:44:42 2009
From: miltnerunit at gmail.com (kristin miltner)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:44:42 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.122938.3780.272.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090129.122938.3780.272.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <ef1ad92c0901291244q1e50150eo9052623ed624eb09@mail.gmail.com>

he clarified off-line, thanks

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:28 PM, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:

> > that's too much of a generalization for me to wrap my head around.
> > do you mean the bay area prefers something like a sweaty rowdy Extra
> > Action Marching Band show to a night at a  John Adams opera? because
> for
> > the most part, i do too.
>
> no, that's not what he's saying. i would prefer NEITHER of those options.
> that's not an accurate analogy at all.
>
> ww
> ____________________________________________________________
> FTD.com
> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQcEHi9vUh5ssMXJWbHPH2d9grVk8UTXR8F4yl62CeX4y/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>



-- 
kristin miltner
audio professional
www.kristinmiltner.net
www.myspace.com/miltnerunit
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmiltner
http://www.praemedia.com/consumerproducts.html

From jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 29 12:54:50 2009
From: jacobmakesnoise at yahoo.com (Jacob Lindsay)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:54:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.122938.3780.268.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <106107.28264.qm@web58001.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

 the knee-jerk
> reaction by many people would be to dismiss a review like
> this as
> "pretentious" (sic) because they are dum dummies
> and they fear their own
> ignorance. (cf.
> http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/01/recent-faves-from-the-new-bin.html
> - a recent example of this relative to something i
> released.)

I see the review but not the reaction.  Where should I be looking?

Jacob Lindsay
http://www.bayimproviser.com/jacoblindsay


--- On Thu, 1/29/09, weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com> wrote:

> From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 12:19 PM
> > Playing off of the title of The Idea of North by Glenn
> Gould, The 
> > Idea of West is an attempt by the improv trio of Tony
> Dryer
> (contrabass), 
> > Jacob Felix Heule (drums), and Jacob Lindsay
> (clarinet) to translate
> > psycho-geography through what the recording's
> liner notes describe 
> > as "controlled improvisation and compositional
> structures." With the 
> > patience and sustained dissonance of a Morton Feldman
> composition, and 
> > Heule's rhythm-sabotaging scrapes and bubbles, the
> album's six
> compositions 
> > are asmeditative as they are avant-leaning. Paired
> with martial arts
> > demonstrations - the venue is a martial arts studio -
> this 
> > performance is an opportunity to give form to what
> often seems like
> fiercely amorphous 
> > music.
> > (Bussolini)
> 
> right now there's a disturbing thrust in our society
> where the knee-jerk
> reaction by many people would be to dismiss a review like
> this as
> "pretentious" (sic) because they are dum dummies
> and they fear their own
> ignorance. (cf.
> http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/01/recent-faves-from-the-new-bin.html
> - a recent example of this relative to something i
> released.)
> 
> a review like this is just intelligent and clear.
> that's what i'm looking
> for. 
> 
> ww
> ____________________________________________________________
> FTD.com
> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQcA5vVj09Fr9CYyfM6tKB9R07pImiUOzm5M1h9DQ8cCi/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


      

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 12:57:13 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:57:13 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.122938.3780.271.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090129.122938.3780.271.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <35B1E9A0-1795-4CD6-9A50-4FBA2260FAD9@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jan 29, 2009, at 12:27 PM, weasel walter wrote:

> what's worse about this is that i've noticed that dumbass critics like
> these seem to LOVE the controversy they inspire with their dumbassery.


Yep. It's the old "if there's controversy, I must be doing something  
right."

>> This blurb makes her sound like the Sarah Palin of cultural
>> critics. . .
>
> I read it as kind of a tongue-in-cheek piece, meant to be amusing in
> a "SF hipster" way, as others here have since pointed out.

And this is different is that than the "community activist" joke how?  
Different politics, same self-involved ignorance.

mg


Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 13:05:33 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:05:33 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <9c5cfa860901290756v72820811i692cc3ed129ea244@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5A75A1D.29478%21grand@21grand.org>

Same writer that wrote mine ...in retrospect, the writing was fairly clear,
it's just some of the basic facts were wrong. Good kid though.

"Sight and Sound: Philip Greenlief and SL Morse"
SL Morse is composed of stalwart instant composers Sarah Lockhart and Weasel
Walter. Initially a conceptual art project for radio, it has grown ? from
the idea of translating texts into Morse code, and Morse code into music ?
into something even less bound to context. Opening with a screening of
Lockhart's 1950s B-movie tribute Giant Fly Attack, tonight's SL Morse
program pairs another Lockhart film, Myth of Sisyphus ? its title nicked
from Albert Camus' early philosophical essay ? with a live performance,
ostensibly of the Morse version of Camus' text. While the music isn't free
improv, it bears a similar sonic profile. Isn't it interesting, living in a
country where taking official culture as your subject matter is more
subversive than retiring to your niche? (Brendan Bussolini)

sl

on 1/29/09 7:56 AM, jacob felix heule at jfheule at gmail.com wrote:

> yep, right on, sarah.
> 
> dryer/heule/lindsay recently got a really nice preview blurb in the sf bay
> guardian. written by an intern younger than myself. it's everything this
> tape music fest blurb is not.
> 



From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 13:10:00 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:10:00 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.131015.3780.278.weaselw@juno.com>

> I see the review but not the reaction.  Where should I be looking?

at the comments below the reviews.

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQAp5PyEMfp1dV18cCeFDtOESsSWnHym4PoMqSommI9d0/

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 13:32:29 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:32:29 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.122938.3780.268.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C5A7606D.29480%21grand@21grand.org>

The thing is, all of these wfmu reviews are very clearly written, and are
mainly descriptive prose comprehensible to someone without "3 times the
liberal arts degree" (whatever that means) or even a specialized vocabulary.

I've read reviews on pitchfork and other sites that could be better
described as "pretentious."  Though pretentious is not the word I would
choose, but I'm not a great fan of the reviews that consist of a few
sentences about the record, twice as many sentences with flowery, yet
relatively leaden, prose about an irrelevant subject, then a poor attempt at
tying it back to the record. I'm not opposed to the "loftiness" or complex
sentences, or 3 dollar words ...my gripe is that the writing isn't very
interesting or well-organized, and reads like a college essay written at 3am
and due at 10am. 

But these are well-written and clear ...so I'm at a loss as to what this
guy's beef is ...maybe he just picked the most recent post to voice his
complaint, though this one didn't merit it whatsoever.

sl

on 1/29/09 12:19 PM, weasel walter at weaselw at juno.com wrote:

> 
> right now there's a disturbing thrust in our society where the knee-jerk
> reaction by many people would be to dismiss a review like this as
> "pretentious" (sic) because they are dum dummies and they fear their own
> ignorance. (cf.
> http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2009/01/recent-faves-from-the-new-bin.html
> - a recent example of this relative to something i released.)
> 
> a review like this is just intelligent and clear. that's what i'm looking
> for. 
> 
> ww



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 13:46:07 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:46:07 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <376469.62315.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C5A7639F.29485%21grand@21grand.org>

on 1/29/09 9:20 AM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote:


> 
> TJ:
> As a trend, I feel that several "alternative" papers do gravitate more towards
> the irreverent, tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic Generation X'er on the street style
> of example a as a rule of thumb...
> 
> PG:
> yep - take away sarcasm and irreverence, and what do young people have left?
> 

SL: well, us Gen Xers aren't that young anymore. You're only a few years
ahead of the oldest Gen Xer, Phillip. And I don't have a problem with
sarcasm and irreverence ...I just read this excellent essay by Mark Twain
about his problems with religion that gets an A+ for sarcasm and
irreverence.  The thing is, sarcasm and irreverence work when the subject
matter is something that is commonly revered or taken at face value, not
something marginal like tape music. The Onion does this very well. The SF
Weekly doesn't.



From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 14:54:29 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:54:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A7639F.29485%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <102815.48912.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

> From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>

> SL: well, us Gen Xers aren't that young anymore.
> You're only a few years
> ahead of the oldest Gen Xer, Phillip. And I don't have
> a problem with
> sarcasm and irreverence ...I just read this excellent essay
> by Mark Twain
> about his problems with religion that gets an A+ for
> sarcasm and
> irreverence.  The thing is, sarcasm and irreverence work
> when the subject
> matter is something that is commonly revered or taken at
> face value, not
> something marginal like tape music. The Onion does this
> very well. The SF
> Weekly doesn't.


PG:
your point is well taken, sarah. i (foolishly) lumped "gen X" in with all the 20 year olds that read the rags...my bad. i was commenting on a younger generation (20-somethings)

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 14:56:33 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:56:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A75A1D.29478%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <649549.51627.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

From: Sarah - 21 Grand <21grand at 21grand.org>
 
> "Sight and Sound: Philip Greenlief and SL Morse"
> SL Morse is composed of stalwart instant composers Sarah
> Lockhart and Weasel
> Walter. Initially a conceptual art project for radio, it
> has grown ? from
> the idea of translating texts into Morse code, and Morse
> code into music ?
> into something even less bound to context.


PG:
at first, i didn't understand why my name was on that review, and then i realized it was for that show we did at ata....

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 15:02:05 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:02:05 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <649549.51627.qm@web81406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C5A7756D.29495%21grand@21grand.org>

Maybe the SF Weekly should run that as a show preview. I'd totally go.

sl

on 1/29/09 2:56 PM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote:

> ?&???@
> ?j???X+jw@?X+jw@??
(?????????X?j?zyby???,(????+??"?(??,y?(|-j\??"??Z
> ??
?jh???
&?j?
????t?j????'???\?h(????
?????-
?+???????
??p???ax
> ?y?(|kj{%j??^???{h?+??
??
???+??
?
x???&?????,?g??)?
?? ^??????r??{@<`
> j???-?v'g?.????t!? ?v?x?
'?Z?
?'??tazp"???,?t??
?+?Z?!?0xbt?
> 
?Z??????????.???
???@5???k???&?Yl
?n??i???h???
v??j)fj??b?????&??



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 15:03:15 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:03:15 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A7756D.29495%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <C5A775B3.29497%21grand@21grand.org>

Shoot, that was supposed to say: Maybe the SF Weekly should run that as a
show preview.

sl

on 1/29/09 3:02 PM, Sarah - 21 Grand at 21grand at 21grand.org wrote:

> 1??xax?
g??\??.??+?p-??@j??h?
kz???
?-???
> ??P?p5?o??6??<?>??*@???X?|??,k??zY@??@?-x?
??
??\??&????@???0!
> >?k ?0?@???+????/1@k:@@?
?
> 1
?@@@@?p?!?0?l??????????.???
???@5???k???&?Yl
?n??i???h???
v??
> j)fj??b?????&??



From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 15:11:38 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:11:38 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A7639F.29485%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C5A7639F.29485%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <498237AA.30307@gmail.com>

The funny thing is that she actually ends up being the one that's 
pretentious in the true sense.. pretending to have a higher level of 
sophistication than one really does.  She just comes off like a sitcom 
writer.

I don't know, what this says to me is that we should keep doing art so 
that more and more people are exposed to it and have to contend with it 
seriously, not dismiss it with a flippant stroke of the pen.. it's like 
everybody is stuck at the age of 14.. 'saying fuck in a church'. OOooo.. 
haven't heard that one before!  maybe people have to do that for their 
own psychological health or whatever, but it really is a little much 
when it gets taken seriously as journalism, or worse, art. I mean do we 
really have to read about how much she hates smart musicians?

but frankly, I don't expect much better from the SF Weekly. They are 
playing to what their readers want, and that is to feel cool, not read 
the news. Everything's a consumable now and EVERYTHING has to shore up 
your dainty little identity of coolness. So if it's a little too complex 
or doesn't fit in the plot, make fun of it.

Maybe just ignore them, and we'll become the 'hip new underground thing' 
that they get to 'uncover', they love that.

alicia


Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:
> on 1/29/09 9:20 AM, Phillip Greenlief at pgsaxo at pacbell.net wrote:
>
>
>   
>> TJ:
>> As a trend, I feel that several "alternative" papers do gravitate more towards
>> the irreverent, tongue-in-cheek, sarcastic Generation X'er on the street style
>> of example a as a rule of thumb...
>>
>> PG:
>> yep - take away sarcasm and irreverence, and what do young people have left?
>>
>>     
>
> SL: well, us Gen Xers aren't that young anymore. You're only a few years
> ahead of the oldest Gen Xer, Phillip. And I don't have a problem with
> sarcasm and irreverence ...I just read this excellent essay by Mark Twain
> about his problems with religion that gets an A+ for sarcasm and
> irreverence.  The thing is, sarcasm and irreverence work when the subject
> matter is something that is commonly revered or taken at face value, not
> something marginal like tape music. The Onion does this very well. The SF
> Weekly doesn't.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 15:27:26 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:27:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498237AA.30307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <344009.79066.qm@web81404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> > SL: well, us Gen Xers aren't that young anymore.
> You're only a few years
> > ahead of the oldest Gen Xer, Phillip. 

PG:

i tried to respond to this, but it came out all gobblety-gook.

i replied by saying that i was (foolishly) lumping 20=somethings with Gen X (which kind of stands as an icon for the 20-something crowd to me...

either way, i stand corrected. but i feel the same way about people in their 20's. AND it's not like i wasn't like that in my 20's...

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Thu Jan 29 15:31:17 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:31:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498237AA.30307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5A77C45.2949D%21grand@21grand.org>

Yes, then you get to experience a different form of condescencion ...because
as much as they love uncovering the hip new underground thing, they also are
suspicious and resentful, probably because they are aware that scenes are
ephemeral, and one easily replaces another in the world of the "alternative"
press. They also rarely spend much time getting a strong grasp on it, so the
coverage (or uncoverage) comes off as superficial and flip. Also, because
they're covering it for its "sceneness" and "hipness," that's the angle they
go for, rather than the work that spawned the scene. So you end up with
readers who sniff the superficiality and think that's the essence of it and
post comments and write letters saying how you suck.

If you're lucky, you get some nice press clippings that say something
intelligent about what you do with color pictures and get some money out of
it. Of course there's always someone luckier that gets more press clippings,
larger color pictures and more money. If you're lucky, that someone is a
person you like and respect.

Not to be totally bleak ...I'd like to call out Reyhan Harmanci, who writes
for the Chronicle (largely about visual art, but she wrote an article about
Neighborhood Public Radio), as someone that is sharp, thoughtful, and does
her research. 

sl

on 1/29/09 3:11 PM, Alicia Byer at aliciabyer at gmail.com wrote:


> 
> Maybe just ignore them, and we'll become the 'hip new underground thing'
> that they get to 'uncover', they love that.
> 
> alicia
> 
> 



From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 15:47:31 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A77C45.2949D%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <C5A77C45.2949D%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <49824013.2000202@gmail.com>

Maybe a good compromise is to provide some kind of easily digestible 
information for the layman.. put it on your website or provide really 
clear press releases so you don't have this issue. like matt said, she 
just got freaked out by the lack of graspable material to just clip and 
paste and got cranky.. and yeah, not everybody has degrees in music. i 
mean it sucks and it's not really our job to do the press' job for them 
but if you want the bucks... spoonfeed them. try to have a friendly 
relationship with them.

i mean it's a little better than 'free beer and girls with ukes!'

alicia

Sarah - 21 Grand wrote:
> Yes, then you get to experience a different form of condescencion ...because
> as much as they love uncovering the hip new underground thing, they also are
> suspicious and resentful, probably because they are aware that scenes are
> ephemeral, and one easily replaces another in the world of the "alternative"
> press. They also rarely spend much time getting a strong grasp on it, so the
> coverage (or uncoverage) comes off as superficial and flip. Also, because
> they're covering it for its "sceneness" and "hipness," that's the angle they
> go for, rather than the work that spawned the scene. So you end up with
> readers who sniff the superficiality and think that's the essence of it and
> post comments and write letters saying how you suck.
>
> If you're lucky, you get some nice press clippings that say something
> intelligent about what you do with color pictures and get some money out of
> it. Of course there's always someone luckier that gets more press clippings,
> larger color pictures and more money. If you're lucky, that someone is a
> person you like and respect.
>
> Not to be totally bleak ...I'd like to call out Reyhan Harmanci, who writes
> for the Chronicle (largely about visual art, but she wrote an article about
> Neighborhood Public Radio), as someone that is sharp, thoughtful, and does
> her research. 
>
> sl
>
> on 1/29/09 3:11 PM, Alicia Byer at aliciabyer at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>   
>> Maybe just ignore them, and we'll become the 'hip new underground thing'
>> that they get to 'uncover', they love that.
>>
>> alicia
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 15:57:52 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:57:52 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.155755.3780.291.weaselw@juno.com>

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
writes:
> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some kind of easily digestible 
> information for the layman.. 

the layman reader or the laymen "critic"? 

if the topic or subject is not 'dumb' there should be no reason to dumb
it down just so the dummies aren't reminded of their dumbness - this
seems to upset them much of the time and they start yelling
"pretentious!"

maybe the matter at hand is just not for them. and if it's not really for
them and they realize this, maybe they should just shut the fuck up and
go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do instead. 

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 16:18:03 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:18:03 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.155755.3780.291.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090129.155755.3780.291.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4982473B.4000600@gmail.com>

I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's terms.. if I were 
describing tape music, I would give people a quick background of music 
concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they don't 
matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a high level, if 
you are willing to put the time in and give them the rudiments of the 
field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain integrity and still 
have common ground with people with different backgrounds.

When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in technical jargon, 
they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is a measure of a good 
doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any less of a job.

If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto, that's fine, 
but from what Sarah is saying, you have to have some kind of connection 
to the outside world in order to get funding and ultimately have the 
privilege to do what we do. A lot of us had some kind of public 
education in the arts, and that was a privilege. I think that we can 
make the connection to the public a positive one with integrity.

alicia

weasel walter wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> writes:
>   
>> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some kind of easily digestible 
>> information for the layman.. 
>>     
>
> the layman reader or the laymen "critic"? 
>
> if the topic or subject is not 'dumb' there should be no reason to dumb
> it down just so the dummies aren't reminded of their dumbness - this
> seems to upset them much of the time and they start yelling
> "pretentious!"
>
> maybe the matter at hand is just not for them. and if it's not really for
> them and they realize this, maybe they should just shut the fuck up and
> go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do instead. 
>
> ww
> ____________________________________________________________
> FTD.com
> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 16:58:39 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:58:39 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:18:03 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
writes:
> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's terms.. if I 
> were describing tape music, I would give people a quick background of 
> music concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they don't

> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a high level, 
> if  you are willing to put the time in and give them the rudiments of 
> the  field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain integrity and 
> still have common ground with people with different backgrounds.

i see what you mean, but this approach almost presupposes that
*everything* must be explained and/or contextualized to create a context
for the lowest common denominator to comprehend . . . if writers spent
all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made. 
 
> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in technical 
> jargon,  they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is a measure
of a 
> good doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any less of a job.

actually my doctor has given me little-to-no useful information technical
or otherwise. he is the medical equivalent of a pitchfork reviewer. 
 
> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto

using the term "musique concrete" or whatever and not having to explain
it is nowhere near deciding to only speak esperanto! you are polarizing
this waaaay too much. which is the problem . . . it's either dumb or
"pretentious" - where's the middle ground? 

my argument is that one doesn't have to write like a monosyllabic
simpleton and explain everything to the lowest common denominator in
order to relate. 

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQ6ZCDr4qAfqDCXX26SiAwppfXtJTK6syJ5CO1biGmOp4/

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 17:47:18 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:47:18 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <49825C26.8050901@gmail.com>

weasel walter wrote:
> i see what you mean, but this approach almost presupposes that
> *everything* must be explained and/or contextualized to create a context
> for the lowest common denominator to comprehend . . . if writers spent
> all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
> there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made. 
>   

Sorry, that's the world we live in. Do you want public support or not? 
You're competing with radio drivel here, you have to give people some 
kind of bridge to leap to the more intellectual stuff. I'm not saying we 
have to go to the level of mush or go on for hours re-explaining the 
wheel, but I don't see why it's so fucking terrible to write a coherent, 
informative press release or blurb on your website to help people along, 
it seems like it would really help.

My point is just that a 'fuck everybody else' attitude is really 
counter-productive and if you haven't noticed, we don't exactly have the 
luxury in this economy. I'm trying to think of what would actually help 
the situation, not just pontificate on what I would like to happen.
>
> using the term "musique concrete" or whatever and not having to explain
> it is nowhere near deciding to only speak esperanto! you are polarizing
> this waaaay too much. which is the problem . . . it's either dumb or
> "pretentious" - where's the middle ground? 
>   
That's my point exactly!! Look, people are going to shut down if they 
smell anything 'arty' is afoot, okay? You have to act friendly. Be 
willing to give them an olive branch, whatever the fuck you want to call 
it, unless you want to continue being polarized. I'm not talking about 
dumbing down the work, I'm just talking about having some basic public 
relations or whatever, basic respect for the fact that not everybody is 
exactly like us.. I just mean giving some background on our work, the 
things that we take for granted that are totally alien to everybody 
else. maybe it would help.

I'm not saying you have to be a monosyllabic simpleton but there's 
something to be said for humbling yourself enough to want to talk to 
people that are different. they might even like the music... but if they 
can't get past the oblique shit on your website, they will never get a 
chance.

alicia

> my argument is that one doesn't have to write like a monosyllabic
> simpleton and explain everything to the lowest common denominator in
> order to relate. 
>
> ww
> ____________________________________________________________
> FTD.com
> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQ6ZCDr4qAfqDCXX26SiAwppfXtJTK6syJ5CO1biGmOp4/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From letucepry at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 29 17:54:57 2009
From: letucepry at yahoo.com (Ron Lettuce)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

>if writers spent
>all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
>there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made. 

As a scientist who sometimes watches PBS documentaries, I have to say that I WISH the world could be anything other than that way, but it is, all entertainment has a "price point" (even stuff like PBS...), and if there isn't a large enough audience, there ain't no show...There is literally NOTHING above the very simplest level on the topics of physics or chemistry that EVER appears on television, because they have to explain everything starting at a fairly low level. But yet, I just sit there and bear it while they explain black-body radiation, or the photo-electric effect (usually as I'm eating my dinner or running on a treadmill...). You simply never get through the first chapter.?I have?books that start up at a much higher levels...Almost nobody buys these, and you usually have to pay per article to even read them, or join a professional society (greater than $500 per year) which might get you one book per year. God forbid that anyone in the F-ing
 SF Weekly ever did a review on one of them, they would be fired. Why should it be any different for YOUR academia?

If you want it to be any different, you should expect audiences on par with the readership of such books...And you might as well advertise on this list, because the only people who will really want to hear it are readers/lurkers here...This will inevitibly cause you to be kicked out of any place that expects you to turn a profit, or even break even, after nobody shows up for your show.


lettuce


________________________________
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:58:39 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:18:03 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
writes:
> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's terms.. if I 
> were describing tape music, I would give people a quick background of 
> music concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they don't

> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a high level, 
> if? you are willing to put the time in and give them the rudiments of 
> the? field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain integrity and 
> still have common ground with people with different backgrounds.

i see what you mean, but this approach almost presupposes that
*everything* must be explained and/or contextualized to create a context
for the lowest common denominator to comprehend . . . if writers spent
all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made. 

> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in technical 
> jargon,? they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is a measure
of a 
> good doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any less of a job.

actually my doctor has given me little-to-no useful information technical
or otherwise. he is the medical equivalent of a pitchfork reviewer. 

> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto

using the term "musique concrete" or whatever and not having to explain
it is nowhere near deciding to only speak esperanto! you are polarizing
this waaaay too much. which is the problem . . . it's either dumb or
"pretentious" - where's the middle ground? 

my argument is that one doesn't have to write like a monosyllabic
simpleton and explain everything to the lowest common denominator in
order to relate. 

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQ6ZCDr4qAfqDCXX26SiAwppfXtJTK6syJ5CO1biGmOp4/
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From electric.tokyo at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 18:05:57 2009
From: electric.tokyo at gmail.com (Travis Johns)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:05:57 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
	<391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>

Lettuce wins. Anyone else wanna go see Moe! break stuff tonight? I
hear its gonna be real jargontastic - with ukulele's to boot!

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>if writers spent
>>all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
>>there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made.
>
> As a scientist who sometimes watches PBS documentaries, I have to say that I WISH the world could be anything other than that way, but it is, all entertainment has a "price point" (even stuff like PBS...), and if there isn't a large enough audience, there ain't no show...There is literally NOTHING above the very simplest level on the topics of physics or chemistry that EVER appears on television, because they have to explain everything starting at a fairly low level. But yet, I just sit there and bear it while they explain black-body radiation, or the photo-electric effect (usually as I'm eating my dinner or running on a treadmill...). You simply never get through the first chapter. I have books that start up at a much higher levels...Almost nobody buys these, and you usually have to pay per article to even read them, or join a professional society (greater than $500 per year) which might get you one book per year. God forbid that anyone in the F-ing
>  SF Weekly ever did a review on one of them, they would be fired. Why should it be any different for YOUR academia?
>
> If you want it to be any different, you should expect audiences on par with the readership of such books...And you might as well advertise on this list, because the only people who will really want to hear it are readers/lurkers here...This will inevitibly cause you to be kicked out of any place that expects you to turn a profit, or even break even, after nobody shows up for your show.
>
>
> lettuce
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:58:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
>
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:18:03 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> writes:
>> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's terms.. if I
>> were describing tape music, I would give people a quick background of
>> music concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they don't
>
>> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a high level,
>> if  you are willing to put the time in and give them the rudiments of
>> the  field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain integrity and
>> still have common ground with people with different backgrounds.
>
> i see what you mean, but this approach almost presupposes that
> *everything* must be explained and/or contextualized to create a context
> for the lowest common denominator to comprehend . . . if writers spent
> all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
> there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made.
>
>> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in technical
>> jargon,  they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is a measure
> of a
>> good doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any less of a job.
>
> actually my doctor has given me little-to-no useful information technical
> or otherwise. he is the medical equivalent of a pitchfork reviewer.
>
>> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto
>
> using the term "musique concrete" or whatever and not having to explain
> it is nowhere near deciding to only speak esperanto! you are polarizing
> this waaaay too much. which is the problem . . . it's either dumb or
> "pretentious" - where's the middle ground?
>
> my argument is that one doesn't have to write like a monosyllabic
> simpleton and explain everything to the lowest common denominator in
> order to relate.
>
> ww
> ____________________________________________________________
> FTD.com
> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQ6ZCDr4qAfqDCXX26SiAwppfXtJTK6syJ5CO1biGmOp4/
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>

From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 18:06:38 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:06:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <4982473B.4000600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

matthew was just over here and we were talking about this conversation.

the truth is, san francisco is kind of the birthplace for this music - (pauline and many of her counterparts). it's just a crime that this journalist can't connect the dots. they should be celebrating it and paying it the respect that's due the music. it's something we could be proud of. i know europe is often seen as this wonderland for creative music, and i have mixed feelings about that claim. but europeans study music - it's part of their culture. they know about composers that were born in their country, and it's part of their national pride.

that an article can come out of the sf weekly, despite it's intended audience or demographic, and not pay homage or respect to the new music pioneers that helped to put this music on the map, is unacceptable. journalists have an obligation to instruct their readers.

i think we should write letters to the weekly and express our dis-satisfaction with their coverage. things can't change if people are silent.

and, i was thinking about the exchange sarah and i had earlier on generations...and i sort of stick with my original assumption about behavior and age (with regard to the comment about sarcasm, etc.). i am willing to bet that the target demographic for the weekly is 18 - 33. that's younger than what i would associate with "generation x", which came up the decade after my generation.

pg


--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's
> terms.. if I were 
> describing tape music, I would give people a quick
> background of music 
> concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they
> don't 
> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a
> high level, if 
> you are willing to put the time in and give them the
> rudiments of the 
> field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain
> integrity and still 
> have common ground with people with different backgrounds.
> 
> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in
> technical jargon, 
> they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is
> a measure of a good 
> doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any
> less of a job.
> 
> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto,
> that's fine, 
> but from what Sarah is saying, you have to have some kind
> of connection 
> to the outside world in order to get funding and ultimately
> have the 
> privilege to do what we do. A lot of us had some kind of
> public 
> education in the arts, and that was a privilege. I think
> that we can 
> make the connection to the public a positive one with
> integrity.
> 
> alicia
> 
> weasel walter wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer
> <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> > writes:
> >   
> >> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some kind of
> easily digestible 
> >> information for the layman.. 
> >>     
> >
> > the layman reader or the laymen "critic"? 
> >
> > if the topic or subject is not 'dumb' there
> should be no reason to dumb
> > it down just so the dummies aren't reminded of
> their dumbness - this
> > seems to upset them much of the time and they start
> yelling
> > "pretentious!"
> >
> > maybe the matter at hand is just not for them. and if
> it's not really for
> > them and they realize this, maybe they should just
> shut the fuck up and
> > go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do instead. 
> >
> > ww
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> > FTD.com
> > Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
> >
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 29 18:06:25 2009
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 02:06:25 +0000
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com><391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1376712930-1233281209-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-686209518-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

That reminds me of the Doctor Science shows at the old Chabot observatory in Oakland.  Dr Science would do a since lecture that was entertaining and informative followed by an set of music featuring many improv group in the planetarium while he ran the celestial cameras.

As for good copy, having good copy that is short, witty and descriptive is worth the effort.  Steve Lacy was a master of this and he was great in an interview as well. He could answer a question and turn it around to say what he wanted to express.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lettuce <letucepry at yahoo.com>

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:54:57 
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group<newmusic at music.mills.edu>
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen


>if writers spent
>all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
>there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made.

As a scientist who sometimes watches PBS documentaries, I have to say that I WISH the world could be anything other than that way, but it is, all entertainment has a "price point" (even stuff like PBS...), and if there isn't a large enough audience, there ain't no show...There is literally NOTHING above the very simplest level on the topics of physics or chemistry that EVER appears on television, because they have to explain everything starting at a fairly low level. But yet, I just sit there and bear it while they explain black-body radiation, or the photo-electric effect (usually as I'm eating my dinner or running on a treadmill...). You simply never get through the first chapter.?I have?books that start up at a much higher levels...Almost nobody buys these, and you usually have to pay per article to even read them, or join a professional society (greater than $500 per year) which might get you one book per year. God forbid that anyone in the F-ing
 SF Weekly ever did a review on one of them, they would be fired. Why should it be any different for YOUR academia?

If you want it to be any different, you should expect audiences on par with the readership of such books...And you might as well advertise on this list, because the only people who will really want to hear it are readers/lurkers here...This will inevitibly cause you to be kicked out of any place that expects you to turn a profit, or even break even, after nobody shows up for your show.


lettuce


________________________________
From: weasel walter <weaselw at juno.com>
To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Cc: newmusic at music.mills.edu
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:58:39 PM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:18:03 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
writes:
> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's terms.. if I
> were describing tape music, I would give people a quick background of
> music concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they don't

> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a high level,
> if? you are willing to put the time in and give them the rudiments of
> the? field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain integrity and
> still have common ground with people with different backgrounds.

i see what you mean, but this approach almost presupposes that
*everything* must be explained and/or contextualized to create a context
for the lowest common denominator to comprehend . . . if writers spent
all their time doing that, each review would become textbook length.
there has to be a point where some assumptions have to be made.

> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in technical
> jargon,? they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is a measure
of a
> good doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any less of a job.

actually my doctor has given me little-to-no useful information technical
or otherwise. he is the medical equivalent of a pitchfork reviewer.

> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto

using the term "musique concrete" or whatever and not having to explain
it is nowhere near deciding to only speak esperanto! you are polarizing
this waaaay too much. which is the problem . . . it's either dumb or
"pretentious" - where's the middle ground?

my argument is that one doesn't have to write like a monosyllabic
simpleton and explain everything to the lowest common denominator in
order to relate.

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQ6ZCDr4qAfqDCXX26SiAwppfXtJTK6syJ5CO1biGmOp4/
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 18:27:55 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:27:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>

Yeah it sucks and a lot of people should do a lot of things, but they 
don't.

I think that having an active role and maybe showing them the richness 
of the history would help, since we are kind of the experts.. and even 
in pauline's time and now they were kind of the renegades and are still 
not in the 'canon' so you can't expect it to be part of the common 
parlance, even if it 'should' in SF..

instead of turning this into a big war and expecting a bunch of 
ignoramuses to magically pick up a copy of pauline's book, even if they 
'should' i mean.... ya gotta make soup with what's in the kitchen!!!

alicia

Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> matthew was just over here and we were talking about this conversation.
>
> the truth is, san francisco is kind of the birthplace for this music - (pauline and many of her counterparts). it's just a crime that this journalist can't connect the dots. they should be celebrating it and paying it the respect that's due the music. it's something we could be proud of. i know europe is often seen as this wonderland for creative music, and i have mixed feelings about that claim. but europeans study music - it's part of their culture. they know about composers that were born in their country, and it's part of their national pride.
>
> that an article can come out of the sf weekly, despite it's intended audience or demographic, and not pay homage or respect to the new music pioneers that helped to put this music on the map, is unacceptable. journalists have an obligation to instruct their readers.
>
> i think we should write letters to the weekly and express our dis-satisfaction with their coverage. things can't change if people are silent.
>
> and, i was thinking about the exchange sarah and i had earlier on generations...and i sort of stick with my original assumption about behavior and age (with regard to the comment about sarcasm, etc.). i am willing to bet that the target demographic for the weekly is 18 - 33. that's younger than what i would associate with "generation x", which came up the decade after my generation.
>
> pg
>
>
> --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
>> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's
>> terms.. if I were 
>> describing tape music, I would give people a quick
>> background of music 
>> concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they
>> don't 
>> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a
>> high level, if 
>> you are willing to put the time in and give them the
>> rudiments of the 
>> field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain
>> integrity and still 
>> have common ground with people with different backgrounds.
>>
>> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in
>> technical jargon, 
>> they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is
>> a measure of a good 
>> doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any
>> less of a job.
>>
>> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto,
>> that's fine, 
>> but from what Sarah is saying, you have to have some kind
>> of connection 
>> to the outside world in order to get funding and ultimately
>> have the 
>> privilege to do what we do. A lot of us had some kind of
>> public 
>> education in the arts, and that was a privilege. I think
>> that we can 
>> make the connection to the public a positive one with
>> integrity.
>>
>> alicia
>>
>> weasel walter wrote:
>>     
>>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer
>>>       
>> <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
>>     
>>> writes:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some kind of
>>>>         
>> easily digestible 
>>     
>>>> information for the layman.. 
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> the layman reader or the laymen "critic"? 
>>>
>>> if the topic or subject is not 'dumb' there
>>>       
>> should be no reason to dumb
>>     
>>> it down just so the dummies aren't reminded of
>>>       
>> their dumbness - this
>>     
>>> seems to upset them much of the time and they start
>>>       
>> yelling
>>     
>>> "pretentious!"
>>>
>>> maybe the matter at hand is just not for them. and if
>>>       
>> it's not really for
>>     
>>> them and they realize this, maybe they should just
>>>       
>> shut the fuck up and
>>     
>>> go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do instead. 
>>>
>>> ww
>>>
>>>       
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>     
>>> FTD.com
>>> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
>>>
>>>       
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/
>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan 29 18:37:50 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:37:50 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B9ACE811-89AA-428D-A1F5-7CE236FC70D5@balancepointacoustics.com>

It is a hipster twit writing for a free paper, I just don't think we  
can hold to to the same standards as Tom Djll or Phil Freeman writing  
poorly researched articles for publications that specialize in  
experimental music.
I think any of us getting into the SF Weekly at all is better than  
nothing. There has been very little in there about anything good for  
years.

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From pgsaxo at pacbell.net  Thu Jan 29 18:50:37 2009
From: pgsaxo at pacbell.net (Phillip Greenlief)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:50:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <667267.7296.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

alicia,

not sure if you were referring to me, but i am certainly not professing we start a war. it isn't so hard to find out about this stuff. and i agree with you - it's possible to present the material in a friendly way. a lot of popular music that "everyone" listens to uses samples...tape music - samples - it's not as if it's not interconnected and "the layman" on the street don't know about this stuff. you could easily write a short piece that lets people know that a lot of popular music they enjoy came out of this music, which is a part of local culture. 


--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 6:27 PM
> Yeah it sucks and a lot of people should do a lot of things,
> but they 
> don't.
> 
> I think that having an active role and maybe showing them
> the richness 
> of the history would help, since we are kind of the
> experts.. and even 
> in pauline's time and now they were kind of the
> renegades and are still 
> not in the 'canon' so you can't expect it to be
> part of the common 
> parlance, even if it 'should' in SF..
> 
> instead of turning this into a big war and expecting a
> bunch of 
> ignoramuses to magically pick up a copy of pauline's
> book, even if they 
> 'should' i mean.... ya gotta make soup with
> what's in the kitchen!!!
> 
> alicia
> 
> Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> > matthew was just over here and we were talking about
> this conversation.
> >
> > the truth is, san francisco is kind of the birthplace
> for this music - (pauline and many of her counterparts).
> it's just a crime that this journalist can't connect
> the dots. they should be celebrating it and paying it the
> respect that's due the music. it's something we
> could be proud of. i know europe is often seen as this
> wonderland for creative music, and i have mixed feelings
> about that claim. but europeans study music - it's part
> of their culture. they know about composers that were born
> in their country, and it's part of their national pride.
> >
> > that an article can come out of the sf weekly, despite
> it's intended audience or demographic, and not pay
> homage or respect to the new music pioneers that helped to
> put this music on the map, is unacceptable. journalists have
> an obligation to instruct their readers.
> >
> > i think we should write letters to the weekly and
> express our dis-satisfaction with their coverage. things
> can't change if people are silent.
> >
> > and, i was thinking about the exchange sarah and i had
> earlier on generations...and i sort of stick with my
> original assumption about behavior and age (with regard to
> the comment about sarcasm, etc.). i am willing to bet that
> the target demographic for the weekly is 18 - 33. that's
> younger than what i would associate with "generation
> x", which came up the decade after my generation.
> >
> > pg
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Alicia Byer
> <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups
> i've ever seen
> >> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion
> Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
> >> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
> >> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in
> laymen's
> >> terms.. if I were 
> >> describing tape music, I would give people a quick
> >> background of music 
> >> concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act
> like they
> >> don't 
> >> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot,
> at a
> >> high level, if 
> >> you are willing to put the time in and give them
> the
> >> rudiments of the 
> >> field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can
> maintain
> >> integrity and still 
> >> have common ground with people with different
> backgrounds.
> >>
> >> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to
> you in
> >> technical jargon, 
> >> they tell you what's up in laymens' terms.
> That is
> >> a measure of a good 
> >> doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're
> doing any
> >> less of a job.
> >>
> >> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in
> Esperanto,
> >> that's fine, 
> >> but from what Sarah is saying, you have to have
> some kind
> >> of connection 
> >> to the outside world in order to get funding and
> ultimately
> >> have the 
> >> privilege to do what we do. A lot of us had some
> kind of
> >> public 
> >> education in the arts, and that was a privilege. I
> think
> >> that we can 
> >> make the connection to the public a positive one
> with
> >> integrity.
> >>
> >> alicia
> >>
> >> weasel walter wrote:
> >>     
> >>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer
> >>>       
> >> <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> >>     
> >>> writes:
> >>>   
> >>>       
> >>>> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some
> kind of
> >>>>         
> >> easily digestible 
> >>     
> >>>> information for the layman.. 
> >>>>     
> >>>>         
> >>> the layman reader or the laymen
> "critic"? 
> >>>
> >>> if the topic or subject is not 'dumb'
> there
> >>>       
> >> should be no reason to dumb
> >>     
> >>> it down just so the dummies aren't
> reminded of
> >>>       
> >> their dumbness - this
> >>     
> >>> seems to upset them much of the time and they
> start
> >>>       
> >> yelling
> >>     
> >>> "pretentious!"
> >>>
> >>> maybe the matter at hand is just not for them.
> and if
> >>>       
> >> it's not really for
> >>     
> >>> them and they realize this, maybe they should
> just
> >>>       
> >> shut the fuck up and
> >>     
> >>> go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do
> instead. 
> >>>
> >>> ww
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>
> ____________________________________________________________
> >>     
> >>> FTD.com
> >>> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts
> from FTD!
> >>>
> >>>       
> >>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/
> >>     
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >>>
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>>
> >>>   
> >>>       
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> >> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> >> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >>     
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 18:54:06 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:54:06 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55836A0C-E73D-4F15-8D38-64D5E690792A@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Jan 29, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:

> in pauline's time and now they were kind of the renegades and are  
> still
> not in the 'canon'


Actually, Pauline was in my last edition of the Grout, which is sort  
of the definition of being "in the canon." However, she's not in the  
new Burkholder edition. . . talk about revisionist history . . .

mg

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 19:06:44 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:06:44 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <667267.7296.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <667267.7296.qm@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49826EC4.5030103@gmail.com>

hi phillip,

no i didn't mean you, I just mean the attitude in general, 'us vs. them'

alicia

Phillip Greenlief wrote:
> alicia,
>
> not sure if you were referring to me, but i am certainly not professing we start a war. it isn't so hard to find out about this stuff. and i agree with you - it's possible to present the material in a friendly way. a lot of popular music that "everyone" listens to uses samples...tape music - samples - it's not as if it's not interconnected and "the layman" on the street don't know about this stuff. you could easily write a short piece that lets people know that a lot of popular music they enjoy came out of this music, which is a part of local culture. 
>
>
> --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 6:27 PM
>> Yeah it sucks and a lot of people should do a lot of things,
>> but they 
>> don't.
>>
>> I think that having an active role and maybe showing them
>> the richness 
>> of the history would help, since we are kind of the
>> experts.. and even 
>> in pauline's time and now they were kind of the
>> renegades and are still 
>> not in the 'canon' so you can't expect it to be
>> part of the common 
>> parlance, even if it 'should' in SF..
>>
>> instead of turning this into a big war and expecting a
>> bunch of 
>> ignoramuses to magically pick up a copy of pauline's
>> book, even if they 
>> 'should' i mean.... ya gotta make soup with
>> what's in the kitchen!!!
>>
>> alicia
>>
>> Phillip Greenlief wrote:
>>     
>>> matthew was just over here and we were talking about
>>>       
>> this conversation.
>>     
>>> the truth is, san francisco is kind of the birthplace
>>>       
>> for this music - (pauline and many of her counterparts).
>> it's just a crime that this journalist can't connect
>> the dots. they should be celebrating it and paying it the
>> respect that's due the music. it's something we
>> could be proud of. i know europe is often seen as this
>> wonderland for creative music, and i have mixed feelings
>> about that claim. but europeans study music - it's part
>> of their culture. they know about composers that were born
>> in their country, and it's part of their national pride.
>>     
>>> that an article can come out of the sf weekly, despite
>>>       
>> it's intended audience or demographic, and not pay
>> homage or respect to the new music pioneers that helped to
>> put this music on the map, is unacceptable. journalists have
>> an obligation to instruct their readers.
>>     
>>> i think we should write letters to the weekly and
>>>       
>> express our dis-satisfaction with their coverage. things
>> can't change if people are silent.
>>     
>>> and, i was thinking about the exchange sarah and i had
>>>       
>> earlier on generations...and i sort of stick with my
>> original assumption about behavior and age (with regard to
>> the comment about sarcasm, etc.). i am willing to bet that
>> the target demographic for the weekly is 18 - 33. that's
>> younger than what i would associate with "generation
>> x", which came up the decade after my generation.
>>     
>>> pg
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 1/29/09, Alicia Byer
>>>       
>> <aliciabyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> From: Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups
>>>>         
>> i've ever seen
>>     
>>>> To: "Bay Area New Music Discussion
>>>>         
>> Group" <newmusic at music.mills.edu>
>>     
>>>> Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
>>>> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in
>>>>         
>> laymen's
>>     
>>>> terms.. if I were 
>>>> describing tape music, I would give people a quick
>>>> background of music 
>>>> concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act
>>>>         
>> like they
>>     
>>>> don't 
>>>> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot,
>>>>         
>> at a
>>     
>>>> high level, if 
>>>> you are willing to put the time in and give them
>>>>         
>> the
>>     
>>>> rudiments of the 
>>>> field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can
>>>>         
>> maintain
>>     
>>>> integrity and still 
>>>> have common ground with people with different
>>>>         
>> backgrounds.
>>     
>>>> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to
>>>>         
>> you in
>>     
>>>> technical jargon, 
>>>> they tell you what's up in laymens' terms.
>>>>         
>> That is
>>     
>>>> a measure of a good 
>>>> doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're
>>>>         
>> doing any
>>     
>>>> less of a job.
>>>>
>>>> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in
>>>>         
>> Esperanto,
>>     
>>>> that's fine, 
>>>> but from what Sarah is saying, you have to have
>>>>         
>> some kind
>>     
>>>> of connection 
>>>> to the outside world in order to get funding and
>>>>         
>> ultimately
>>     
>>>> have the 
>>>> privilege to do what we do. A lot of us had some
>>>>         
>> kind of
>>     
>>>> public 
>>>> education in the arts, and that was a privilege. I
>>>>         
>> think
>>     
>>>> that we can 
>>>> make the connection to the public a positive one
>>>>         
>> with
>>     
>>>> integrity.
>>>>
>>>> alicia
>>>>
>>>> weasel walter wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some
>>>>>>             
>> kind of
>>     
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>> easily digestible 
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>>> information for the layman.. 
>>>>>>     
>>>>>>         
>>>>>>             
>>>>> the layman reader or the laymen
>>>>>           
>> "critic"? 
>>     
>>>>> if the topic or subject is not 'dumb'
>>>>>           
>> there
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> should be no reason to dumb
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> it down just so the dummies aren't
>>>>>           
>> reminded of
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> their dumbness - this
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> seems to upset them much of the time and they
>>>>>           
>> start
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> yelling
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> "pretentious!"
>>>>>
>>>>> maybe the matter at hand is just not for them.
>>>>>           
>> and if
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> it's not really for
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> them and they realize this, maybe they should
>>>>>           
>> just
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> shut the fuck up and
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do
>>>>>           
>> instead. 
>>     
>>>>> ww
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>     
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>>> FTD.com
>>>>> Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts
>>>>>           
>> from FTD!
>>     
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/
>>     
>>>>     
>>>>         
>> _______________________________________________
>>     
>>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>     
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 19:08:04 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:08:04 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <55836A0C-E73D-4F15-8D38-64D5E690792A@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
	<55836A0C-E73D-4F15-8D38-64D5E690792A@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <49826F14.901@gmail.com>

yeah, but as a blurb. in the back. the apologetic appendix, right? like 
the 'oh shit i guess we have to include contemporary crap' section.

sorry i'm getting a little loopy here folks no more arguing... blargh

alicia

Matthew Goodheart wrote:
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:
>
>   
>> in pauline's time and now they were kind of the renegades and are  
>> still
>> not in the 'canon'
>>     
>
>
> Actually, Pauline was in my last edition of the Grout, which is sort  
> of the definition of being "in the canon." However, she's not in the  
> new Burkholder edition. . . talk about revisionist history . . .
>
> mg
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From djll at sonic.net  Thu Jan 29 19:18:41 2009
From: djll at sonic.net (Tom Dill)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:18:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] worst writeup
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2936.1233277042.28527.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
References: <mailman.2936.1233277042.28527.newmusic@music.mills.edu>
Message-ID: <CA72EA76-8BF9-49E8-A4D9-C1012F1AA825@sonic.net>

It is weird to snarkify a notice like that. A review, that's  
different. That piece of s**t was neither.

On Jan 29, 2009, at 4:57 PM, newmusic-request at music.mills.edu wrote:

> come on, it's a miracle anything got mentioned. if you haven't  
> noticed it, culture has been outlawed in the bay area....
>
> pg


I thought the strategy was simply to gentrify artists out of their  
digs... maybe that's all coming crashing down now, too.

td




From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 18:25:41 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:25:41 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.182555.3780.306.weaselw@juno.com>

i've found that most people interested in experimental music these days
tend to make themselves busy with making music, not being music writers.
i've also found that most music writers are not musicians. herein lies
the problem.

ww

From weaselw at juno.com  Thu Jan 29 18:23:30 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:23:30 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090129.182555.3780.305.weaselw@juno.com>

> Sorry, that's the world we live in. Do you want public support or not? 

i guess i've come to a point where i don't care if complete morons like
or "understand" my music or not. your point presupposes that everybody
i.e. "the public" are morons (by my definition). i don't agree with that
at all. you're positing that survival has to do with pandering, which it
does not. if you think that, i'm sorry for you!

certainly it's nice to be at least neutral if not "friendly" to the
general public, but trying to molly-coddle them insures absolutely
nothing in return. i know this from some experience. i eventually found
that the more information i gave the general public - the more i tried to
appear to be a "friend" - the easier it was for them to take what i did
for granted! 

> but I don't see why it's so fucking terrible to write a coherent, 
> informative press release or blurb on your website to help people 
> along, it seems like it would really help.

that's an attude we share. i believe in that. however, i personally don't
pander to dummies and explain every single musical term that comes along
as if nobody knows anything. if that's "unfriendly" or "pretentious",
then i will remain unfriendly and pretentious because i don't have time
to change the world's mental diapers!

> Look, people are going to shut down if 
> they smell anything 'arty' is afoot, okay? 

well, then they can fuck off then. that's their problem. there's plenty
of people who aren't scared of it, alicia. i suppose those are the people
that should be listening to that stuff. 

i agree that if one is going to alienate the public, one must then deal
with the ramications of that action. i'm just saying that there is a
large anti-intellectual thrust in this society and i refuse to pander to
it personally. if i wanted a million people to be my friend, i'd go play
popular music. 

i haven't seen the website in question, so i cannot really defend it. i'm
not defending whatever the tone is of the tape music promotion was. i
know what tape music is and it doesn't really interest me as a premise
for a concert. that's just me. 

ww

From katttsammon at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 29 20:14:52 2009
From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:14:52 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <4982473B.4000600@gmail.com>
References: <20090129.155755.3780.291.weaselw@juno.com>
	<4982473B.4000600@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W31A4C999F2F8C5D3B7E431A2C60@phx.gbl>



    
    




    
            






it's just another badly written article. it's not worth analyzing. the person obviously doesn't understand electronic music...not many folks do...it's an international mud puddle (and i'm proud to be in that mud puddle)

i mean eh who cares! tape music <on a nice sound system> got some press! that's great!

plus i'm sure that they'll get new faces in the door because of it.

now that's enough to celebrate with a dry martini up with olive.

tomorrow night i'm going to hear thom blum's new piece and am very much looking forward to it!

kattt

> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:18:03 -0800
> From: aliciabyer at gmail.com
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> 
> I don't mean dumb it down, I mean put it in laymen's terms.. if I were 
> describing tape music, I would give people a quick background of music 
> concrete, not just put my nose in the air and act like they don't 
> matter. people are capable of understanding a lot, at a high level, if 
> you are willing to put the time in and give them the rudiments of the 
> field. It's a pain in the ass, but you can maintain integrity and still 
> have common ground with people with different backgrounds.
> 
> When you go to the doctor, they don't speak to you in technical jargon, 
> they tell you what's up in laymens' terms. That is a measure of a good 
> doctor, and it doesn't mean that they're doing any less of a job.
> 
> If you want to hide in a cave and only speak in Esperanto, that's fine, 
> but from what Sarah is saying, you have to have some kind of connection 
> to the outside world in order to get funding and ultimately have the 
> privilege to do what we do. A lot of us had some kind of public 
> education in the arts, and that was a privilege. I think that we can 
> make the connection to the public a positive one with integrity.
> 
> alicia
> 
> weasel walter wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:47:31 -0800 Alicia Byer <aliciabyer at gmail.com>
> > writes:
> >   
> >> Maybe a good compromise is to provide some kind of easily digestible 
> >> information for the layman.. 
> >>     
> >
> > the layman reader or the laymen "critic"? 
> >
> > if the topic or subject is not 'dumb' there should be no reason to dumb
> > it down just so the dummies aren't reminded of their dumbness - this
> > seems to upset them much of the time and they start yelling
> > "pretentious!"
> >
> > maybe the matter at hand is just not for them. and if it's not really for
> > them and they realize this, maybe they should just shut the fuck up and
> > go do whatever dum-dumheads prefer to do instead. 
> >
> > ww
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > FTD.com
> > Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQaYEETXAGPIU0ZcVBX09WoIlO0dwbRR6bpOEKluQaWCK/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> >   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009

From katttsammon at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 29 20:22:20 2009
From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:22:20 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <B9ACE811-89AA-428D-A1F5-7CE236FC70D5@balancepointacoustics.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<498265AB.9000305@gmail.com> 
	<B9ACE811-89AA-428D-A1F5-7CE236FC70D5@balancepointacoustics.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W34B584FAB8AE9587F2827DA2C60@phx.gbl>


yep. ditto.

k

> From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com
> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:37:50 -0800
> To: newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
> 
> It is a hipster twit writing for a free paper, I just don't think we  
> can hold to to the same standards as Tom Djll or Phil Freeman writing  
> poorly researched articles for publications that specialize in  
> experimental music.
> I think any of us getting into the SF Weekly at all is better than  
> nothing. There has been very little in there about anything good for  
> years.
> 
> Damon Smith
> 
> http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
> http://myspace.com/smithdamon
> New solo project:
> http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009

From katttsammon at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 29 20:38:02 2009
From: katttsammon at hotmail.com (Kattt Sammon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:38:02 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Hurray Plonsey!
In-Reply-To: <cf60725f0901261437n6362360cp959508eaab5015dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <303098.1505.qm@web51601.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<cf60725f0901261437n6362360cp959508eaab5015dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W35C716187FDD2A8647917AA2C60@phx.gbl>


link for plonsey/pekar opera: http://www.leavemealoneopera.com/

FYI it's being streamed live (on the above website) on saturday night (1.31.09) @ 5PM PST/8PM EST.

k

> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:37:02 -0500
> From: jzitt at metatronpress.com
> To: praemedia at yahoo.com; newmusic at music.mills.edu
> Subject: Re: [NewMusic] Hurray Plonsey!
> 
> And here's a longer article from the Cleveland Jewish News: <a
> href="http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2009/01/23/news/local/doc49788f8cf1bd3873161104.txt">Harvey
> Pekar does opera</a>
> 
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Praemedia <praemedia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > http://www.metafilter.com/78587/Pretty-Complex-Stuff
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> > NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> > http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. 
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 20:44:57 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:44:57 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <49826F14.901@gmail.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<498265AB.9000305@gmail.com>
	<55836A0C-E73D-4F15-8D38-64D5E690792A@matthewgoodheart.com>
	<49826F14.901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8E61664E-D8EA-4C00-8F6C-8EC72BD456A7@matthewgoodheart.com>

On Jan 29, 2009, at 7:08 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:

> yeah, but as a blurb. in the back. the apologetic appendix, right?  
> like
> the 'oh shit i guess we have to include contemporary crap' section.

Yeah, it was definitely in the Avant Barrio.

Um, we're not arguing?

mg


>
>
> sorry i'm getting a little loopy here folks no more arguing... blargh
>
> alicia
>
> Matthew Goodheart wrote:
>> On Jan 29, 2009, at 6:27 PM, Alicia Byer wrote:
>>
>>
>>> in pauline's time and now they were kind of the renegades and are
>>> still
>>> not in the 'canon'
>>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, Pauline was in my last edition of the Grout, which is sort
>> of the definition of being "in the canon." However, she's not in the
>> new Burkholder edition. . . talk about revisionist history . . .
>>
>> mg
>>
>> Matthew Goodheart
>> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
>> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
>> http://matthewgoodheart.com
>> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
>> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
>> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 21:30:42 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:30:42 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
	<391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901292130m506cf16dr8f3b3f672bcc1a5e@mail.gmail.com>

Writing from the gig. Holy crap! Death Cab for Cutie is here!

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Travis Johns <electric.tokyo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lettuce wins. Anyone else wanna go see Moe! break stuff tonight? I
> hear its gonna be real jargontastic - with ukulele's to boot!

From mattdavignon at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 22:08:55 2009
From: mattdavignon at gmail.com (Matt Davignon)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:08:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901292130m506cf16dr8f3b3f672bcc1a5e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
	<391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901292130m506cf16dr8f3b3f672bcc1a5e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>

I'm with Alicia on this.

I imagine the little writeup took about 10 minutes for Hiya to do. She
was probably on deadline, and was asked to throw something in about
the festival. She's done decent writeups of our scene in the past.
Yes, writing a preview of something that pretty much says it's going
to suck is counter-productive.

On the other hand, if we don't want people to accuse us of being
hoity-toity and self-marginalizing, we're going to have to
occasionally stop being all hoity-toity and self-marginalizing.

I'm not particularly targeting SFSound here, more the attitude in
general that if people don't know who Pauline Oliveros is, then their
ignorance is "unforgivable". And that if they don't listen to our
music they are on a lower cultural level than us.

There is a descriptive blurb about "tape music" at sfsound.org/tape,
but I can see how it might be frustrating to someone with an IQ under
140 or someone who doesn't know what tape music is.

"What is Tape Music??

"It is a bit paradoxical to use the word traditionally with a practice
of the avant garde -- but, traditionally the words tape music have
referred to the target media of a new kind of music. This new kind of
music is not composed for arbitration by a pianist and the piano, so
it must not be piano music. . . not for the string quartet, not for
the orchestra, not even for the rock 'n roll band. "

If I were to describe the music happening tonight at lsg to someone
who's never heard it before, I'd probably start with more basic terms,
such as:

"These musicians spend a lot of time focusing on the basic ways that
sounds are made, and put efforts into getting unusual and uncommon
sounds from their instruments. Rather than playing something from
sheet music or memorized, what they are doing is more like telling a
story as it goes along. Each one is paying attention to their own
sense of what 'should' come next. When playing with others, it's also
necessary to pay attention to how the other person is reacting to you,
and how they might react to any changes you make. With enough
practice, it's possible for musicians to convey a sense of their own
language, and that's when it gets interesting to put people into
different groups each time."

Rather than, "Improv? Well, the european school with such luminaries
as...and current techniques defying the institutionalized zeitgeist"

Matt

From aliciabyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan 29 22:30:01 2009
From: aliciabyer at gmail.com (Alicia Byer)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:30:01 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>	<391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>	<c70e517b0901292130m506cf16dr8f3b3f672bcc1a5e@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49829E69.6020207@gmail.com>

I think the thing for me is I care whether or not 21grand stays open, if 
we have festivals, venues etc.. and what the public thinks of our music 
(or IF they think of it!) directly affects turnout, city funding, 
grants, publicity, all that stuff... it could keep more places open.. 
maybe even affect the national attitude toward art.. i'm not really 
talking about individual artists here... people can do what they want 
with their own music, individually and I totally respect people not 
wanting to explain themselves on an individual level. I just mean for 
the large-scale things we could have a more 'user-friendly' approach, 
just like any other enterprise that involves the public. I dont' think 
it even really makes the art better to be like 'fuck everybody else' and 
I don't think it's pandering to care about the public. it's really easy 
to just say 'fuck all those morons'

When I talk to people that don't know what free improv is, I usually say 
something like 'well it came out of jazz in a way but there are a lot of 
different streams so it came out of a lot of different things and it's 
about expressing yourself in the moment rather than having something 
worked out before-hand.. and this is interesting to me because a lot of 
things in the world we live in are really sanitized and perfected or 
scripted and it's nice to deal with something that you're just making up 
as you go along, you get to see the real human parts of people' and when 
they say that they dont' understand why people use such weird sounds I 
just say 'well you can try to appreciate it on a physical level like 
when you look at nature, instead of looking FOR something like when you 
watch a movie'

I mean I guess I also think it's like.. we have this cool thing that we 
do and it would be cool to share it and not just hoard it.

alicia

Matt Davignon wrote:
> I'm with Alicia on this.
>
> I imagine the little writeup took about 10 minutes for Hiya to do. She
> was probably on deadline, and was asked to throw something in about
> the festival. She's done decent writeups of our scene in the past.
> Yes, writing a preview of something that pretty much says it's going
> to suck is counter-productive.
>
> On the other hand, if we don't want people to accuse us of being
> hoity-toity and self-marginalizing, we're going to have to
> occasionally stop being all hoity-toity and self-marginalizing.
>
> I'm not particularly targeting SFSound here, more the attitude in
> general that if people don't know who Pauline Oliveros is, then their
> ignorance is "unforgivable". And that if they don't listen to our
> music they are on a lower cultural level than us.
>
> There is a descriptive blurb about "tape music" at sfsound.org/tape,
> but I can see how it might be frustrating to someone with an IQ under
> 140 or someone who doesn't know what tape music is.
>
> "What is Tape Music??
>
> "It is a bit paradoxical to use the word traditionally with a practice
> of the avant garde -- but, traditionally the words tape music have
> referred to the target media of a new kind of music. This new kind of
> music is not composed for arbitration by a pianist and the piano, so
> it must not be piano music. . . not for the string quartet, not for
> the orchestra, not even for the rock 'n roll band. "
>
> If I were to describe the music happening tonight at lsg to someone
> who's never heard it before, I'd probably start with more basic terms,
> such as:
>
> "These musicians spend a lot of time focusing on the basic ways that
> sounds are made, and put efforts into getting unusual and uncommon
> sounds from their instruments. Rather than playing something from
> sheet music or memorized, what they are doing is more like telling a
> story as it goes along. Each one is paying attention to their own
> sense of what 'should' come next. When playing with others, it's also
> necessary to pay attention to how the other person is reacting to you,
> and how they might react to any changes you make. With enough
> practice, it's possible for musicians to convey a sense of their own
> language, and that's when it gets interesting to put people into
> different groups each time."
>
> Rather than, "Improv? Well, the european school with such luminaries
> as...and current techniques defying the institutionalized zeitgeist"
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   


From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Thu Jan 29 23:13:48 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:13:48 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
	<391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901292130m506cf16dr8f3b3f672bcc1a5e@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1541B5DC-5D5E-45EA-8587-6F8B019724BA@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Matt Davignon wrote:

> On the other hand, if we don't want people to accuse us of being
> hoity-toity and self-marginalizing, we're going to have to
> occasionally stop being all hoity-toity and self-marginalizing.

I know very few people on this scene, or any of the new music scenes I  
know, who are openly hostile and hoity-toity about folks who simply  
don't know about the music. I describe new music, electronic music,  
etc. ALL THE TIME to people who don't know what it is and ask about  
it.  90% of the artists out there are really happy to expose new  
people to it, and very patient to talk to anyone who expresses  
interest: especially younger people.  They'll even go out of their way  
to follow up and suggest recordings, things to read, etc. I've even  
taken folks to concerts on my own dime.

I've never, ever heard someone say: "You motherf#@king moron, what  
kind of uneducated pig-ignorant sh&t for brains doesn't know who  
Pauline f%*king Oliveros is?"

The problem is not the arrogance of the artists, nor the ignorance of  
people who haven't been exposed; it's the arrogance of those who's  
first response is to be hostile to the unfamiliar, making  
pronouncements about it's moral questionability, all the while  
demonstrating that they haven't the slightest clue what they are  
talking about, and no interest in finding out.  I get even more  
hostile when these same folks are in positions of power. It's the Joe  
the Plumber syndrome.

I don't think I'm that different from everyone else here; someone who  
doesn't know asks an honest and open question, and we're all too glad  
to discuss it and encourage them, and even hear their perspective and  
reaction. In fact, we're dying for it!

As to the sfsound/tape blurb: you target what terminology you use to  
who you're talking to: high school students in Richmond one way,  
fundamentalist Christians in another, and educated intellectually  
oriented adults in another. So who was the sfsound website trying to  
reach? Seems to me they used the right language for their target  
demographic.

mg


Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From damon at balancepointacoustics.com  Thu Jan 29 23:22:43 2009
From: damon at balancepointacoustics.com (Damon Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:22:43 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <1541B5DC-5D5E-45EA-8587-6F8B019724BA@matthewgoodheart.com>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com>
	<391318.4615.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<d3165c060901291805p1002c23ay3dbc87486735b667@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901292130m506cf16dr8f3b3f672bcc1a5e@mail.gmail.com>
	<c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<1541B5DC-5D5E-45EA-8587-6F8B019724BA@matthewgoodheart.com>
Message-ID: <383EACC1-BD64-483D-BB48-9F54A4EC8AC6@balancepointacoustics.com>

I am with Matthew on this. I don't have a lot patience for musicians  
being willfully ignorant about musicians and music in the field they  
are working in or writers writing about the music with no sense of  
the history, but I don't expect anyone else to know about this music  
or even care.
It is highly specialized music, for what basically amounts to nerds,  
not in a bad way but to a "hip" weekly writer "Tape music" might as  
well be "Model railroad builders".
I went to SF tonight to pick my duo cds with Bert Turetzky, and while  
I had a Kebab afterward I read an insufferable article about "New  
Garage bands" in the Guardian - frankly it would be way more  
problematic if they did like or care about what we are doing.

On Jan 29, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Matthew Goodheart wrote:

>
> On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Matt Davignon wrote:
>
>> On the other hand, if we don't want people to accuse us of being
>> hoity-toity and self-marginalizing, we're going to have to
>> occasionally stop being all hoity-toity and self-marginalizing.
>
> I know very few people on this scene, or any of the new music scenes I
> know, who are openly hostile and hoity-toity about folks who simply
> don't know about the music. I describe new music, electronic music,
> etc. ALL THE TIME to people who don't know what it is and ask about
> it.  90% of the artists out there are really happy to expose new
> people to it, and very patient to talk to anyone who expresses
> interest: especially younger people.  They'll even go out of their way
> to follow up and suggest recordings, things to read, etc. I've even
> taken folks to concerts on my own dime.
>
> I've never, ever heard someone say: "You motherf#@king moron, what
> kind of uneducated pig-ignorant sh&t for brains doesn't know who
> Pauline f%*king Oliveros is?"
>
> The problem is not the arrogance of the artists, nor the ignorance of
> people who haven't been exposed; it's the arrogance of those who's
> first response is to be hostile to the unfamiliar, making
> pronouncements about it's moral questionability, all the while
> demonstrating that they haven't the slightest clue what they are
> talking about, and no interest in finding out.  I get even more
> hostile when these same folks are in positions of power. It's the Joe
> the Plumber syndrome.
>
> I don't think I'm that different from everyone else here; someone who
> doesn't know asks an honest and open question, and we're all too glad
> to discuss it and encourage them, and even hear their perspective and
> reaction. In fact, we're dying for it!
>
> As to the sfsound/tape blurb: you target what terminology you use to
> who you're talking to: high school students in Richmond one way,
> fundamentalist Christians in another, and educated intellectually
> oriented adults in another. So who was the sfsound website trying to
> reach? Seems to me they used the right language for their target
> demographic.
>
> mg
>
>
> Matthew Goodheart
> composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
> matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
> http://matthewgoodheart.com
> http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic

Damon Smith

http://www.balancepointacoustics.com
http://myspace.com/smithdamon
New solo project:
http://www.myspace.com/damonsmithsolo





From michaelz at zoka.com  Fri Jan 30 00:14:06 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:14:06 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <45547.46399.qm@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240890c5a834a02eb7@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/29/09, Phillip Greenlief wrote:

>and, i was thinking about the exchange sarah and i had earlier on 
>generations...and i sort of stick with my original assumption about 
>behavior and age (with regard to the comment about sarcasm, etc.). i 
>am willing to bet that the target demographic for the weekly is 18 - 
>33. that's younger than what i would associate with "generation x", 
>which came up the decade after my generation.

Here's some info to consider before you place that bet.

Current figures for the print version of the SF Weekly are not 
readily available, but as for the sfweekly.com Web site (which 
allegedly reaches 129,000 people a month in the US), the audience is 
"middle aged":

50+: 16%
35-49: 45%
18-34: 37%

From:
<http://www.quantcast.com/sfweekly.com#demographics>

Here are some older figures (from 2003) for readership of the print version:

18-34: 44.5%
25-49: 61.9%

From:
<http://www.aan.org/gyrobase/Aan/ViewCompany?oid=oid%3A36>

FWIW, NTTAWWT, etc.,
MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From michaelz at zoka.com  Fri Jan 30 00:09:02 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:09:02 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <1376712930-1233281209-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-686209
	518-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com><391318.4615.qm@web54305.ma
	il.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1376712930-1233281209-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-686209
	518-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <p0624088fc5a830051a61@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/30/09, Jon Raskin wrote:

>That reminds me of the Doctor Science shows at the old Chabot 
>observatory in Oakland.  Dr Science

That was MISTER Science, Kingsley Wightman:

<http://www.chabotspace.org/aboutus/wightman.asp>

>  would do a since lecture that was entertaining and informative 
>followed by an set of music featuring many improv group in the 
>planetarium while he ran the celestial cameras.

Yep, I have fond memories of a few of those.
Henry Kaiser (who, as an Oakland lad, saw Kingsley's demos at Chabot) 
organized the music.

Someone should start up that series again at the new Chabot. . .

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From matthew at matthewgoodheart.com  Fri Jan 30 00:27:38 2009
From: matthew at matthewgoodheart.com (Matthew Goodheart)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:27:38 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <p0624088fc5a830051a61@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <20090129.165849.3780.297.weaselw@juno.com><391318.4615.qm@web54305.ma
	il.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1376712930-1233281209-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-686209
	518-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<p0624088fc5a830051a61@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <501B5F0B-88D5-4051-9F0F-F99AB2364747@matthewgoodheart.com>


On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Michael Zelner wrote:

>>
>> That reminds me of the Doctor Science shows at the old Chabot
>> observatory in Oakland.  Dr Science
>
> That was MISTER Science, Kingsley Wightman:



Right!  Doctor Science is the Duck's Breath Mystery Theater guy who  
explains how the lint in your navel is caused by your socks lost in  
the dryer being sucked into another dimension through your belly button.

http://www.drscience.com/

mg



Matthew Goodheart
composer ~ improviser ~ pianist
matthew at matthewgoodheart.com
http://matthewgoodheart.com
http://myspace.com/matthewgoodheart





From tim at perkis.com  Fri Jan 30 00:47:54 2009
From: tim at perkis.com (Tim Perkis)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:47:54 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <20090129.182555.3780.306.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090129.182555.3780.306.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4982BEBA.7020204@perkis.com>

wow, nothing peps this list up like bad press!!! ... it's like stirring 
the anthill with a stick

T


weasel walter wrote:
> i've found that most people interested in experimental music these days
> tend to make themselves busy with making music, not being music writers.
> i've also found that most music writers are not musicians. herein lies
> the problem.
>
> ww
> _______________________________________________
> Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
> NewMusic at music.mills.edu
> http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic
>
>   

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Fri Jan 30 00:53:42 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:53:42 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <4982BEBA.7020204@perkis.com>
Message-ID: <C5A80016.294DD%21grand@21grand.org>

I find sticks inherently peppy.

sl

on 1/30/09 12:47 AM, Tim Perkis at tim at perkis.com wrote:

> wow, nothing peps this list up like bad press!!! ... it's like stirring
> the anthill with a stick
> 
> T



From weaselw at juno.com  Fri Jan 30 00:58:37 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:58:37 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090130.005934.3780.322.weaselw@juno.com>

mr. goodheart, thank you for saying this. exactly. 

ww

> The problem is not the arrogance of the artists, nor the ignorance 
> of people who haven't been exposed; it's the arrogance of those who's  
> first response is to be hostile to the unfamiliar, making  
> pronouncements about it's moral questionability, all the while  
> demonstrating that they haven't the slightest clue what they are  
> talking about, and no interest in finding out.  I get even more  
> hostile when these same folks are in positions of power. It's the 
> Joe the Plumber syndrome.
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQIaA0KU1Da7y6l8fGuWJTRKP97EkArh5issy457ygiIW/

From weaselw at juno.com  Fri Jan 30 00:56:56 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:56:56 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <20090130.005934.3780.320.weaselw@juno.com>

> it's really easy to just say 'fuck all those morons'

actually it's not that easy. it took me about 15 years to get to that
point. a lot of thinking went behind that conclusion!

ww
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQIa1zZnnCZi0VynTZ9CbFnympFujfxGWgYo0k035nGYu/

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Fri Jan 30 01:41:06 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:41:06 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <c70e517b0901292208o1b6678ffm831041aebc28e7cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5A80B32.294E2%21grand@21grand.org>

on 1/29/09 10:08 PM, Matt Davignon at mattdavignon at gmail.com wrote:

> 
> On the other hand, if we don't want people to accuse us of being
> hoity-toity and self-marginalizing, we're going to have to
> occasionally stop being all hoity-toity and self-marginalizing.

This is at least the 3rd straw man foisted on this thread ...who's being
hoity-toity? Give me an example of this hoity-toitiness, please. A lot of
the descriptions of new music shows penned by the artists aren't what I
would call hoity-toity ... Mostly lists of names, instruments, recordings
that to the theoretical layman, isn't hoity-toity or pretentious, just dry
and not particularly compelling as a sales pitch.
> 
> I'm not particularly targeting SFSound here, more the attitude in
> general that if people don't know who Pauline Oliveros is, then their
> ignorance is "unforgivable". And that if they don't listen to our
> music they are on a lower cultural level than us.

Who has this attitude? I don't see anyone here having this attitude. I see
mild disgreement as to what extent we should cultivate the interest of the
general public, and general agreement that it is appreciated when people are
interested and when the press writes about us. There is also general
agreement that clearly written descriptive prose about the music is possible
without resorting to academicism and obscurantism.

There is also general agreement that there a significant number of
dumdumheads in this country that probably prefer watching pole dancing by
scantily clad young women or guys that look like car stereo salesmen
aspiring to be pimps gesticulating to a repetitive dance beat with vocalized
"oohs" and "yeahs" to listening to Xenakis' music or any of Weasel's bands.
There are probably a good number of people of average to above average
intelligence that enjoy the new garage rock breathlessly promoted in this
week's Guardian.

I skimmed through those articles and recognized a few names, but not very
many, and eventually shrugged and said, "not familiar, don't really care,
not my thing," which is probably how most people that read descriptions of
new music shows respond.

Again, I don't see any hoity-toitiness here ...just realistic responses to
general apathy.

sl



From 21grand at 21grand.org  Fri Jan 30 01:46:46 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:46:46 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <BAY135-W31A4C999F2F8C5D3B7E431A2C60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C5A80C86.294E5%21grand@21grand.org>

on 1/29/09 8:14 PM, Kattt Sammon at katttsammon at hotmail.com wrote:


> it's just another badly written article. it's not worth analyzing. ...
> 
But what if that analysis gives me pleasure? It makes me feel my college
degree is relevant.

sl



From jon_raskin at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 30 05:24:29 2009
From: jon_raskin at yahoo.com (Jon Raskin)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:24:29 +0000
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
Message-ID: <576239336-1233321896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-222689105-@bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I stand corrected.  It was Henry kaiser that curated the series and he keeps the art/ science connection alive with his Antarctica experience.

------Original Message------
From: Michael Zelner
Sender: newmusic-bounces at music.mills.edu
To: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
ReplyTo: Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
Sent: Jan 30, 2009 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen

On 1/30/09, Jon Raskin wrote:

>That reminds me of the Doctor Science shows at the old Chabot 
>observatory in Oakland.  Dr Science

That was MISTER Science, Kingsley Wightman:

<http://www.chabotspace.org/aboutus/wightman.asp>

>  would do a since lecture that was entertaining and informative 
>followed by an set of music featuring many improv group in the 
>planetarium while he ran the celestial cameras.

Yep, I have fond memories of a few of those.
Henry Kaiser (who, as an Oakland lad, saw Kingsley's demos at Chabot) 
organized the music.

Someone should start up that series again at the new Chabot. . .

MZ


--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------
_______________________________________________
Bay Area New Music Discussion Group
NewMusic at music.mills.edu
http://music.mills.edu/mailman/listinfo/newmusic


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

From suki at zoka.com  Fri Jan 30 06:51:32 2009
From: suki at zoka.com (Suki O'Kane)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:51:32 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <576239336-1233321896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-222689105-@
	bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <576239336-1233321896-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-222689105-@
	bxe299.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <a06240801c5a8c16d0058@[192.168.0.4]>

It may return, economy be damned. David (who is MISTER Merlin 
Coleman) Bloom, the Exhibits Project Manager up there has been 
fomenting.

My recollection is that Chabot's astronomers, and the people who hang 
out with them, are a very receptive audience to creative new music, 
even when it's laid down Kaiser-stylee. The next circle of 
participants (visitors and members), dunno, but word is that the 
public have already consumed and excreted the 38 minute SonicVision 
installation 
(http://www.chabotspace.org/visit/shows.aspx?v=a#Sonic%20Vision ).

Now would be the time to propose a diverse program. I bet it would 
get a write-up.
-s

At 1:24 PM +0000 1/30/09, Jon Raskin wrote:
>I stand corrected.  It was Henry kaiser that curated the series and 
>he keeps the art/ science connection alive with his Antarctica 
>experience.
>
>------Original Message------
>From: Michael Zelner
>Sent: Jan 30, 2009 12:09 AM
>
>On 1/30/09, Jon Raskin wrote:
>
>>That reminds me of the Doctor Science shows at the old Chabot
>>observatory in Oakland.  Dr Science
>
>That was MISTER Science, Kingsley Wightman:
>
><http://www.chabotspace.org/aboutus/wightman.asp>
>
>>   would do a since lecture that was entertaining and informative
>>followed by an set of music featuring many improv group in the
>>planetarium while he ran the celestial cameras.
>
>Yep, I have fond memories of a few of those.
>Henry Kaiser (who, as an Oakland lad, saw Kingsley's demos at Chabot)
>organized the music.
>
>Someone should start up that series again at the new Chabot. . .
>

-- 

suki o'kane
mailto:suki at zoka.com
http://www.myspace.com/sukiokane


From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Fri Jan 30 07:22:56 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:22:56 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] one of the worst writeups i've ever seen
In-Reply-To: <C5A80C86.294E5%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <BAY135-W31A4C999F2F8C5D3B7E431A2C60@phx.gbl>
	<C5A80C86.294E5%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W32E14F298EE7CC8C2FBECDC1C60@phx.gbl>


> 35-49: 45%> 25-49: 61.9%Demographics that, at least in hip urban places like the Bay Area, seem increasingly desperate toremain young by still wearing skater shorts (to conveniently show off those rad calf tattoos, even if it'slike 35 degrees out), reading Chuck Klosterman, listening to Pavement, or whatever band du jour is influenced by Pavement, orworse, deciding that KISS is really cool after all, or never having stopped listening to Depeche Mode or the Cramps (girls only - hello Hiya Swanhuyser!!)and denouncing "artsy" stuff like "tape music" as pretentious. Nothing new here, really - it's just the next step in the evolution of the great anti-intellectual, "populist"(read: ignorant, small-minded and proud of it) American tradition...............George (unapologetic elitist living in stuffy, arrogant old Europe, but still more than happy to explain what I do to anyone who asks nicely)
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. 
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 

From Gino.Robair at penton.com  Fri Jan 30 10:06:38 2009
From: Gino.Robair at penton.com (Robair, Gino)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 12:06:38 -0600
Subject: [NewMusic] Moe! gets beat to the punch (Piano Solo)
Message-ID: <C5A881AE.1CAFA%Gino.Robair@penton.com>

Sorry Moe!, but you've been scooped when it comes to shred videos and pieces
for piano:
http://www.wimp.com/shredspiano


From michaelz at zoka.com  Fri Jan 30 19:05:44 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:05:44 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] One of the better writeups I've seen (for the SFTMF)
Message-ID: <p0624089fc5a96efedbf8@[192.168.0.2]>

This one comes from Craig Matsumoto's (aka KZSU-FM DJ Wedge) blog:

>San Francisco Tape Music Festival 2009, Jan. 30-Feb. 1, at Cell 
>Space - A very cool annual event presenting pre-recorded pieces of 
>sounds experimentalism, musique concrete, and electronic works, 
>ranging from classic older works to brand new pieces by local 
>composers. The "performance" is more than just engineers playing you 
>the tape - it's played on an array of 20+ speakers surrounding the 
>audience, which sits in total darkness, for a cinematic sensory 
>experience. (Lights come up between pieces). The program is 
>different for each of the three nights. A crowd will probably turn 
>out for Sunday's playing of Varese, Xenakis, and Messaien pieces, 
>although there'll be a lot of curiosity seekers on Saturday for a 
>new piece by The Fireman (consistsing of Youth, from Killing Joke, 
>and Paul McCartney).

<http://wedgeradio.wordpress.com/page/2/>


From weaselw at juno.com  Fri Jan 30 19:36:17 2009
From: weaselw at juno.com (weasel walter)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:36:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] One of the better writeups I've seen (for the SFTMF)
Message-ID: <20090130.195829.3780.362.weaselw@juno.com>

now see, if i had known there would be pieces by varese and xenakis, i
would have been excited! 

so whose fault is it that the other lady didn't mention these - was this
not included in her information or does she just not know this is sort of
a big deal to some people and that certain composers kind of matter?
please advise. 

ww

> >San Francisco Tape Music Festival 2009, Jan. 30-Feb. 1, at Cell 
> >Space - A very cool annual event presenting pre-recorded pieces of 
> >sounds experimentalism, musique concrete, and electronic works, 
> >ranging from classic older works to brand new pieces by local 
> >composers. The "performance" is more than just engineers playing 
> you the tape - it's played on an array of 20+ speakers surrounding the 
> >audience, which sits in total darkness, for a cinematic sensory 
> >experience. (Lights come up between pieces). The program is 
> >different for each of the three nights. A crowd will probably turn 
> >out for Sunday's playing of Varese, Xenakis, and Messaien pieces, 
> >although there'll be a lot of curiosity seekers on Saturday for a 
> >new piece by The Fireman (consistsing of Youth, from Killing Joke, 
> >and Paul McCartney).
____________________________________________________________
FTD.com
Shop now and save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/u4MuScM2CQLXENZGcAkMX981BGodp9r3IchhJdtJEA3It9YMymFW2/

From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 31 04:10:55 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:10:55 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] One of the better writeups I've seen (for the SFTMF)
In-Reply-To: <20090130.195829.3780.362.weaselw@juno.com>
References: <20090130.195829.3780.362.weaselw@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W12B911999C1B0F05630684C1C70@phx.gbl>


 > so whose fault is it that the other lady didn't mention these - was this> not included in her information or does she just not know this is sort of> a big deal to some people and that certain composers kind of matter?Of course, Varese and Xenakis 'kind of matter'. It's like New Music 101. It might come as a shock, but some of the other lesser-known composers on the program might also be 'sort of a big deal to some people' and might, just perhaps, 'kind of matter'...............George
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_012009

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sat Jan 31 04:21:40 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:21:40 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] One of the better writeups I've seen (for the SFTMF)
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W12B911999C1B0F05630684C1C70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C5A98254.2951A%21grand@21grand.org>

on 1/31/09 4:10 AM, George Cremaschi at gcremaschi at hotmail.com wrote:


Of course, 
>> Varese and Xenakis 'kind of matter'. It's like New Music 101. It might come
>> as a shock, but some of the other lesser-known composers on the program might
>> also be 'sort of a big deal to some people' and might, just perhaps, 'kind of
>> matter'...............George

Other lesser-known composers like George Cremaschi?

sl



From gcremaschi at hotmail.com  Sat Jan 31 05:05:17 2009
From: gcremaschi at hotmail.com (George Cremaschi)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 05:05:17 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] One of the better writeups I've seen (for the SFTMF)
In-Reply-To: <C5A98254.2951A%21grand@21grand.org>
References: <BLU136-W12B911999C1B0F05630684C1C70@phx.gbl>
	<C5A98254.2951A%21grand@21grand.org>
Message-ID: <BLU136-W1281EFA75BEF432B087D01C1C70@phx.gbl>


> Of course, >>> Varese and Xenakis 'kind of matter'. It's like New Music 101. It might come>>> as a shock, but some of the other lesser-known composers on the program might>>> also be 'sort of a big deal to some people' and might, just perhaps, 'kind of>>> matter'...............George> Other lesser-known composers like George Cremaschi?No, not my point, though if someone really likes my piece, I suppose they might find it insulting to find that their opinion didn't 'matter'. There are something like 30 composers on the program, and quite a few besides Varese and Xenakis are more or less universally accepted as being 'important'.Besides the great local composers and lesser-known non-local composers, but of course, they are quite obviously unimportant, and not worth bothering with, because they're local and lesser-known. While, naturally, everyone is entitled to their own tastes, being only interested in the Varese and Xenakis pieces is a lot like only being interested in Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones.............George 
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. 
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009

From michaelz at zoka.com  Sat Jan 31 09:20:31 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:20:31 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Pekar/Plonsey opera story on NPR
Message-ID: <p062408a0c5aa37c0e8e6@[192.168.0.2]>

As broadcast this morning:

>Harvey Pekar Makes His Opera Debut
>By Karen Schaefer

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100031337>

>[7 min 19 sec]
>
>Weekend Edition Saturday, January 31, 2009 - Harvey Pekar is 
>best-known for the autobiographical comic books he began 
>self-publishing in the 1970s, then illustrated by his friend Robert 
>Crumb. Over the years, Pekar's caustic self-portraits have 
>highlighted his struggles with everything from cell phones to 
>Cleveland winters to cancer. His comic-book success earned him guest 
>appearances on David Letterman and on this show. In 2003, the 
>Oscar-nominated film American Splendor, closely based on Pekar's 
>comics, gave many who had never read his books a first look at the 
>man for whom ordinary life can be a complex thing. Now, the former 
>hospital file clerk is making his opera debut.
>
>Comic-book fans may not know it, but jazz fans know Pekar is one of 
>them. He writes record reviews and album liner notes.
>
>"I've been a critic of jazz and of fiction for a real long time, and 
>I'm always up on my soapbox," Pekar says. "So I went and sort of put 
>down on paper one of my rants."
>
>What he put down on paper was the libretto of what's being called a 
>jazz opera, titled - not uncharacteristically -- Leave Me Alone.
>
>Pekar's Message
>
>Leave Me Alone opens with a monologue, delivered by Pekar, about how 
>ordinary people should support experimental art - particularly 
>avant-garde jazz. He says he really believes he can persuade the 
>mainstream to like this music.
>
>"Well, I'm trying to get everyman involved in art," he says. "And 
>I'm trying to get them involved in thinking about what it takes to 
>get everyman into experimental music or painting or novel writing. I 
>think it's important to have the support of the masses."
>
>It's just the kind of music saxophonist Dan Plonsey plays in his 
>spare time. A Cleveland native, Plonsey now lives in the San 
>Francisco Bay area. He was approached to compose a jazz opera, and 
>his wife - a longtime fan - suggested he call Pekar to write the 
>libretto. Pekar had already reviewed some of Plonsey's music.
>
>"The way Harvey and I worked, Harvey had this idea about the 
>avant-garde needing to find its audience; otherwise it'll die," 
>Plonsey says. "And my addition, I mean, I wanted it to be -- there's 
>a personal need to find time to do creativity, because otherwise 
>you'll die. So he's speaking for society and I'm kind of speaking 
>for the individual."
>
>Reality Onstage
>
>In the opera, both men play themselves. The plot, not unlike a Pekar 
>comic, is autobiographical and revolves around the writing of the 
>opera itself. Spotlighted onstage in a set that looks like his 
>California studio, Plonsey -- a 50-year-old high school math teacher 
>by day -- struggles to bring home a paycheck and still have time for 
>his art. In one scene, Plonsey's real-life wife, Mantra Ben-ya'akova 
>Plonsey, lights into him for cleaning up the kitchen when he's meant 
>to be working on the living room.
>
>Mantra, an actress, dancer and mother of two, says that playing the 
>role of the angry wife doesn't bother her too much.
>
>"I mean," she asks, "what good does it do to give a false impression 
>of what it's like to be an artist married to an artist with kids in 
>the real world?"
>
>Pekar's wife, Joyce Brabner, is an author of political comics and 
>nonfiction. She's also co-written a number of Pekar's books.
>
>"The reality of it is, in this house, there are two writers who are 
>both working," she says. "And one of my jobs is ... making Harvey 
>famous. You know, publicizing him, promoting him, making deals, 
>finding people who want to make movies. If I'd constructed this 
>opera, I'd be celebrating the mundane activities that go on to 
>support the art every bit as much. I wouldn't be talking about them 
>as intrusions. Because, let's face it, if somebody's not calling you 
>to dinner and you're the genius artist, you're not gonna eat."
>
>Besides the two couples, Oberlin College students make up most of 
>the opera's cast and orchestra. Patty Stubel, 23, is one of the 
>singers.
>
>"It's funny: I went back home to Dallas, and my friends were like, 
>'So, what are you doing?' I told them about this opera and I was 
>like, 'Yeah, it's written by this guy named Harvey Pekar.' And 
>they're like, 'American Splendor Harvey Pekar?' And I'm like, 'Yeah, 
>I hadn't really heard of it.' And they're like, 'Are you kidding 
>me?' So, my bad."
>
>While a lot of other people do know who Pekar is, it's probably fair 
>to say that even most jazz fans don't know composer Dan Plonsey's 
>work. He'll be satisfied if just a few people leave the opera 
>knowing a little more about him and the music he and Pekar are 
>trying to champion.
>
>"I'm not out to invent some whole new, crazy method of making 
>music," Plonsey says. "I find it more interesting to try to lure 
>people in with something that they can actually hear, and then they 
>discover what they're listening to is really strange."
>
>As for Pekar, the famous curmudgeon seems uncharacteristically 
>anxious to reach an audience.
>
>"I don't know what this is going to be like," he says. "I seriously 
>want to make this a good show and a thought-provoking show, and I 
>hope that the audience likes it and thinks a little bit about what I 
>said and enjoys the music."
>
>Pekar says that, while he hopes people will enjoy the opera, he's 
>not about to write another one.
>
>Harvey Pekar's opera, Leave Me Alone, will be webcast live Sunday at 
>8 p.m. ET.

<http://www.leavemealoneopera.com/>





From michaelz at zoka.com  Sat Jan 31 09:29:26 2009
From: michaelz at zoka.com (Michael Zelner)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 09:29:26 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] Pekar/Plonsey opera story on NPR
In-Reply-To: <p062408a0c5aa37c0e8e6@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <p062408a0c5aa37c0e8e6@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <p062408a2c5aa3a8a905f@[192.168.0.2]>

On 1/31/09, NPR wrote:

>  >Harvey Pekar's opera, Leave Me Alone, will be webcast live Sunday at
>>8 p.m. ET.
>
><http://www.leavemealoneopera.com/>


Correction:

>Leave Me Alone! will be streamed live on Saturday, 1/31/2009 at 8:00 PM EST

<http://www.oberlin.edu/con/leavemealone/>

MZ



--------------michaelz at zoka.com---
             Michael Zelner
---Oakland CA USA------------------

From 21grand at 21grand.org  Sat Jan 31 11:35:06 2009
From: 21grand at 21grand.org (Sarah - 21 Grand)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 11:35:06 -0800
Subject: [NewMusic] One of the better writeups I've seen (for the SFTMF)
In-Reply-To: <BLU136-W1281EFA75BEF432B087D01C1C70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C5A9E7EA.2952E%21grand@21grand.org>

on 1/31/09 5:05 AM, George Cremaschi at gcremaschi at hotmail.com wrote:

> 
>> Of course, >>> Varese and Xenakis 'kind of matter'. It's like New Music 101.
>> It might come>>> as a shock, but some of the other lesser-known composers on
>> the program might>>> also be 'sort of a big deal to some people' and might,
>> just perhaps, 'kind of>>> matter'...............George>

>Other lesser-known composers like George Cremaschi?

>>  While, naturally, everyone is entitled to their own tastes,
>> being only interested in the Varese and Xenakis pieces is a lot like only
>> being interested in Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones.............George

-- I'm not speaking for Mr. Walter, here, but I'd argue that in terms of
marketing - in terms of getting people in the audience - highlighting the
New Music 101-ers, would be useful. I must confess that the only time I went
to an sfsound gig in San Francisco (San Franciscans lament their difficulty
coming to Oakland, well, I have the same problem getting to shows in their
city - time, money, Newton's first law of motion, etc.), was when they
played a Xenakis piece a year or so ago. I sat in front of the drummer from
Deerhoof, who probably isn't an sfsound regular either. It was acknowledged
that the audience was unusually large that night. If you're presenting the
work of someone whom you know from past experience is going to draw, then
why not make that a major selling point?

The other thing is, that you don't hear that work presented very often, as
opposed to the local folks, for better or worse, you do hear more often.
It's the local band vs. touring band dynamic. In general, people go see the
local band because they're their friends, or friends of friends. People go
see the touring band because they only come through once a year or so.

sl